Re: [Reproducible-builds] Raspi 3 suitable for arm64?

[Steven Chamberlain]

Hi,

Karsten Merker wrote:
> For the Odroid-C2 there is AFAICS no mainline support at all.

There was a pull recently for the SoC used on that board (Amlogic S905):
https://lkml.org/lkml/2016/3/1/1401

Does that make mainline support for the Odroid C2 any more likely?
I guess substantial work is still needed yet.

(Annoying that there are so many cheap boards that claim to be/do so
much and yet, are of little practical use if they can only boot a
vendor-supplied kernel).

Regards,
-- 
Steven Chamberlain
ste...@pyro.eu.org


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Re: [Reproducible-builds] Raspi 3 suitable for arm64?

[Lennart Sorensen]

On Sun, Mar 06, 2016 at 08:34:23AM -0800, Vagrant Cascadian wrote:
> I got the impression it was another broadcom chip, maybe with a
> cortex-a53? Gotta love ARM's confusing namespace.

Yes another broadcom videocore chip with the quad A7 upgraded to quad
A53.  Nothing to do with Allwinner (who really like to confuse things
by using A## codes for their chips that have nothing to do with the A##
arm cores they are based on).

> I've definitely been thinking about some of these new arm64 capable
> boards. The Odroid-C2, Pine64 and LeMaker HiKey have 2GB RAM options, at
> least. I do worry a bit about sufficient mainline support, as a few of
> the boards I've tried (odroid-c1+, cubieboard4) didnt really work out
> with vendor kernels and the mainline support wasn't close enough to be
> useable.
> 
> That said, I'm not sure how much CPU/board diversity has really resulted
> in reproducibility issues at this point, so getting a less diverse
> network set up might be fine.
> 
> Also of note, the arm64 boards *could* be used to test arm64, armhf or
> armel. So they're certainly more flexible. I've considered getting a
> small number of the arm64 capable boards and plugging them into the
> armhf network with the idea that they could be switched over to arm64 in
> the future.

Actually armv8 deprecated quite a bit of stuff, so armel code might not run
on it, and some armhf code might not either, although certainly most will.

-- 
Len Sorensen

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Re: [Reproducible-builds] Raspi 3 suitable for arm64?

[Holger Levsen]

Hi Axel,

On Sonntag, 6. März 2016, Axel Beckert wrote:
> > I think we'd need 10-12 of such boards for a start, not sure if we still
> > have Debian funds to buy those (but I almost think so… Vagrant?) -
> > providing we would find someone interested+able to host these. Would you
> > (Axel) be able too?
> I probably can host some, too, given that them only being reachable
> via IPv6 suffices. (I currently only have a SixXS IPv6 tunnel at home,
> but I'm thinking about switching my ISP at home to one with fiber and
> native IPv6.)

I guess that would be fine in principle, except that jenkins.d.n has no ipv6, 
and adding that would involve tunneling.

Would you be willing to forward ports from an ipv4 address of yours to the ssh 
ports of these nodes, so that we can use ipv4 like in the setup with Vagrant?


cheers,
Holger




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Re: [Reproducible-builds] Raspi 3 suitable for arm64?

[Holger Levsen]

Hi,

as a general comment to the Debian ARM people: thanks a lot for your 
insightful comments, even though they smashed the idea of cheap arm64 Debian 
builders for now! Much appreciated feedback!

On Sonntag, 6. März 2016, Vagrant Cascadian wrote:
> That said, I'm not sure how much CPU/board diversity has really resulted
> in reproducibility issues at this point, so getting a less diverse
> network set up might be fine.

I think it has found a fair number of bugs.

> > I think we'd need 10-12 of such boards for a start, not sure if we still
> > have Debian funds to buy those (but I almost think so… Vagrant?) -
> I need to do a final tally yet, but it's nearly done. There might be
> some funding left for a few boards, but probably not 10 boards once you
> factor in the costs of SSDs, power supplies, and other necessary
> adapters.

It would be good to know the exact number left…
 
> We've certainly met the target of tripling the build network speed, at
> least!
> 
>   https://tests.reproducible-builds.org/stats_builds_per_day_armhf.png

:-))) and \o/


cheers,
Holger


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Re: [Reproducible-builds] Raspi 3 suitable for arm64?

[Axel Beckert]

Hi Holger,

Holger Levsen wrote:
> On Sonntag, 6. März 2016, Axel Beckert wrote:
> > I now wonder if a bunch of Raspberry Pi 3 -- since they have 64-bit
> > CPUs (IIRC an Allwinner A53T) -- would make us able to check
> > reproducible-builds for Debian arm64, too.
> 
> as far as I know, yes.

Good! :-)

> Though I would want to use some other arm64 boards as 
> well, to have hardware variety right from the start.

Good point.

> for example:
> http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/RasPi-Angreifer-Odroid-C2-Schneller-
> etwas-teurer-aber-ohne-WLAN-3123182.html also has an arm64 cpu, but
> twice as much ram (2gb) as the raspi3 and 2 ghz cores instead of 1.2
> ghz ones on the raspi3.

And without the unnecessary WLAN and Bluetooth, yay! *drool* *want* :-)

Anyone knows if that thing fits into (most) Raspi cases? At least the
ports and screw holes look like being at the same position.

> I think we'd need 10-12 of such boards for a start, not sure if we still have 
> Debian funds to buy those (but I almost think so… Vagrant?) - providing we 
> would find someone interested+able to host these. Would you (Axel) be able 
> too?

I probably can host some, too, given that them only being reachable
via IPv6 suffices. (I currently only have a SixXS IPv6 tunnel at home,
but I'm thinking about switching my ISP at home to one with fiber and
native IPv6.)

Regards, Axel
-- 
 ,''`.  |  Axel Beckert , http://people.debian.org/~abe/
: :' :  |  Debian Developer, ftp.ch.debian.org Admin
`. `'   |  4096R: 2517 B724 C5F6 CA99 5329  6E61 2FF9 CD59 6126 16B5
  `-|  1024D: F067 EA27 26B9 C3FC 1486  202E C09E 1D89 9593 0EDE

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Re: [Reproducible-builds] Raspi 3 suitable for arm64?

[Vagrant Cascadian]

Cc'ed correct debian-arm address...

On 2016-03-06, Holger Levsen wrote:
> On Sonntag, 6. März 2016, Axel Beckert wrote:
>> I now wonder if a bunch of Raspberry Pi 3 -- since they have 64-bit
>> CPUs (IIRC an Allwinner A53T) -- would make us able to check
>> reproducible-builds for Debian arm64, too.

I got the impression it was another broadcom chip, maybe with a
cortex-a53? Gotta love ARM's confusing namespace.


> as far as I know, yes. Though I would want to use some other arm64 boards as 
> well, to have hardware variety right from the start. for example:
> http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/RasPi-Angreifer-Odroid-C2-Schneller-
> etwas-teurer-aber-ohne-WLAN-3123182.html also has an arm64 cpu, but twice 
> as much ram (2gb) as the raspi3 and 2 ghz cores instead of 1.2 ghz ones on 
> the 
> raspi3. *buntu also has a new arm64 developer/reference board. There will be 
> more in 3 months too.

I've definitely been thinking about some of these new arm64 capable
boards. The Odroid-C2, Pine64 and LeMaker HiKey have 2GB RAM options, at
least. I do worry a bit about sufficient mainline support, as a few of
the boards I've tried (odroid-c1+, cubieboard4) didnt really work out
with vendor kernels and the mainline support wasn't close enough to be
useable.

That said, I'm not sure how much CPU/board diversity has really resulted
in reproducibility issues at this point, so getting a less diverse
network set up might be fine.

Also of note, the arm64 boards *could* be used to test arm64, armhf or
armel. So they're certainly more flexible. I've considered getting a
small number of the arm64 capable boards and plugging them into the
armhf network with the idea that they could be switched over to arm64 in
the future.


> I think we'd need 10-12 of such boards for a start, not sure if we still have 
> Debian funds to buy those (but I almost think so… Vagrant?) -

I need to do a final tally yet, but it's nearly done. There might be
some funding left for a few boards, but probably not 10 boards once you
factor in the costs of SSDs, power supplies, and other necessary
adapters.

We've certainly met the target of tripling the build network speed, at
least!

  https://tests.reproducible-builds.org/stats_builds_per_day_armhf.png


> providing we would find someone interested+able to host these. Would
> you (Axel) be able too?

One thing is it uses a considerable amount of bandwidth monthly. The 16
boards we had running last month consumed about 500GB of upload
bandwidth for the last two months. Most of that was upload bandwidth,
since a caching proxy minimizes the impact of downloads (~90GB
downloaded on the proxy).

Power consumption is, of course, relatively low... even with 18 boards
and some infrastructure, it uses under 150 watts.


live well,
  vagrant


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Re: [Reproducible-builds] Raspi 3 suitable for arm64?

[Vagrant Cascadian]

On 2016-03-06, Holger Levsen wrote:
> On Sonntag, 6. März 2016, Axel Beckert wrote:
>> I now wonder if a bunch of Raspberry Pi 3 -- since they have 64-bit
>> CPUs (IIRC an Allwinner A53T) -- would make us able to check
>> reproducible-builds for Debian arm64, too.

I got the impression it was another broadcom chip, maybe with a
cortex-a53? Gotta love ARM's confusing namespace.


> as far as I know, yes. Though I would want to use some other arm64 boards as 
> well, to have hardware variety right from the start. for example:
> http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/RasPi-Angreifer-Odroid-C2-Schneller-
> etwas-teurer-aber-ohne-WLAN-3123182.html also has an arm64 cpu, but twice 
> as much ram (2gb) as the raspi3 and 2 ghz cores instead of 1.2 ghz ones on 
> the 
> raspi3. *buntu also has a new arm64 developer/reference board. There will be 
> more in 3 months too.

I've definitely been thinking about some of these new arm64 capable
boards. The Odroid-C2, Pine64 and LeMaker HiKey have 2GB RAM options, at
least. I do worry a bit about sufficient mainline support, as a few of
the boards I've tried (odroid-c1+, cubieboard4) didnt really work out
with vendor kernels and the mainline support wasn't close enough to be
useable.

That said, I'm not sure how much CPU/board diversity has really resulted
in reproducibility issues at this point, so getting a less diverse
network set up might be fine.

Also of note, the arm64 boards *could* be used to test arm64, armhf or
armel. So they're certainly more flexible. I've considered getting a
small number of the arm64 capable boards and plugging them into the
armhf network with the idea that they could be switched over to arm64 in
the future.


> I think we'd need 10-12 of such boards for a start, not sure if we still have 
> Debian funds to buy those (but I almost think so… Vagrant?) -

I need to do a final tally yet, but it's nearly done. There might be
some funding left for a few boards, but probably not 10 boards once you
factor in the costs of SSDs, power supplies, and other necessary
adapters.

We've certainly met the target of tripling the build network speed, at
least!


> providing we would find someone interested+able to host these. Would
> you (Axel) be able too?

One thing is it uses a considerable amount of bandwidth monthly. The 16
boards we had running last month consumed about 500GB of upload
bandwidth for the last two months. Most of that was upload bandwidth,
since a caching proxy minimizes the impact of downloads (~90GB
downloaded on the proxy).

Power consumption is, of course, relatively low... even with 18 boards
and some infrastructure, it uses under 150 watts.


live well,
  vagrant


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Re: [Reproducible-builds] Raspi 3 suitable for arm64? (was: new armhf node (Odroid-XU4))

[Holger Levsen]

Hi Axel,

On Sonntag, 6. März 2016, Axel Beckert wrote:
> I now wonder if a bunch of Raspberry Pi 3 -- since they have 64-bit
> CPUs (IIRC an Allwinner A53T) -- would make us able to check
> reproducible-builds for Debian arm64, too.

as far as I know, yes. Though I would want to use some other arm64 boards as 
well, to have hardware variety right from the start. for example:
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/RasPi-Angreifer-Odroid-C2-Schneller-
etwas-teurer-aber-ohne-WLAN-3123182.html also has an arm64 cpu, but twice 
as much ram (2gb) as the raspi3 and 2 ghz cores instead of 1.2 ghz ones on the 
raspi3. *buntu also has a new arm64 developer/reference board. There will be 
more in 3 months too.

I think we'd need 10-12 of such boards for a start, not sure if we still have 
Debian funds to buy those (but I almost think so… Vagrant?) - providing we 
would find someone interested+able to host these. Would you (Axel) be able 
too?


cheers,
Holger


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Re: [Reproducible-builds] Raspi 3 suitable for arm64? (was: new armhf node (Odroid-XU4))

[Axel Beckert]

Hi Vagrant,

Vagrant Cascadian wrote:
> Odroid-XU4, exynos5422 quad-core, 2GB ram, ~60GB USB3 SATA spinning disk

this thread seems a good source for looking which ARM SBC can run
Debian armhf". Thanks for that. :-)

I now wonder if a bunch of Raspberry Pi 3 -- since they have 64-bit
CPUs (IIRC an Allwinner A53T) -- would make us able to check
reproducible-builds for Debian arm64, too.

Regards, Axel
-- 
 ,''`.  |  Axel Beckert , http://people.debian.org/~abe/
: :' :  |  Debian Developer, ftp.ch.debian.org Admin
`. `'   |  4096R: 2517 B724 C5F6 CA99 5329  6E61 2FF9 CD59 6126 16B5
  `-|  1024D: F067 EA27 26B9 C3FC 1486  202E C09E 1D89 9593 0EDE

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