Re: [RDD] Rivendell Future

[Robert Jeffares]

Hi Fernando,

Rivendell like all open source projects has developer(s) who have to 
make decisions, and have people to create and manage code.


Linux is available in more distributions than you can count, and while 
many programs run on many distributions, not all will ever run on all.


Each distribution has a team who determine how it will function and each 
distribution generally has a well stated focus. Same goes with 
applications.


Rivendell's development team have made a decision to build on a stable 
platform, currently CentOS 7. CentOS has generally stable versions of 
useful algorithms, and the code runs reliably.


This is important to some thousands of users.

In the true spirit of open source there are versions maintained for 
Ubuntu and Debian, and report of builds on almost all of the possible 
platforms.


Inevitably QT4 will reach an end date, and the code may have to be 
ported to QT5 or possibly QT6  which will involve a lot of effort 
because what worked previously has to be verified as compatible with the 
new QT or rebuilt from scratch.


The Aegean Stables are nothing on this task.

The new QT will not be like the old QT. Simple changes will create 
incompatibilities because the QT coders are not thinking of end users 
but end results.


So what may look easy is probably a bit more complex. I believe it's 
being worked on.


I don't think the goal of Rivendell is to be more visible. I believe 
it's purpose is to do a job well, incorporate well reasoned additional 
features, and above all maintain reliability.


This is not about growing the market, this is about keeping things 
running. People will come along and be happy to join in.


All of the distributions you mention have their strong points. You 
should be able to get Rivendell to run on any of them, with the 
fragility that comes from unheralded upstream changes that improve 
performance for something, but nuke Rivendell essentials.


Rivendell is like a Lada. It may look ugly, and old tech, but it runs on 
almost anything, best on one or two platforms, and it gets there.


I suggest the 'up to date distro like Ubuntu 20.04' may not be as flash 
as you imagine. I use Ubuntu elsewhere and have been through several 
iterations of stuff not working in "the new version" because this or 
that has changed. Finding the people to maintain various releases of 
Rivendell, when the basic version works fine, is going to be difficult. 
There are people who will make it run on something because they can. But 
for most it's "why?".


You can still contribute to the project I am sure.


regards

Robert


On 24/11/20 2:30 pm, Fernando Della Torre wrote:

Hello folks.

I've been away for a while and now I've tried to compile Rivendell 
using some up to date distro like Ubuntu 20.04 or Mint 20 with no 
success at all.

It complains about QT4, specially about libqt4-sql-mysql.

I'm not a dev (I wish I was) but as far as I understand QT4 it is 
being retired.

Is there any Rivendell release using QT5 or any newer equivalent ?

I know it's easy to say and hard to do, but surely Rivendell would 
have a larger visibility if it were packed in 2 or more flavors, like 
RPM and DEB pointing to all dependencies it needs and ready for the 
modern distros, whether Ubuntu, Debian, Mint, Fedora, Centos 8, etc. 
Every time in the past I had to complite from source and every update 
was a kind of a pain.


As I said I wish I was a dev, but I'm just a sysadmin.

I really appreciate the effort of the entire community working on 
Rivendell. Thanks a lot.


Regards,
Fernando Della Torre

+55 (16) 98137-1240



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Re: [RDD] Rivendell Future

[Lorne Tyndale]

Hi Fernando,

I can't speak for the developers or QT5, but from what I understand the
current Version 3 branch will be staying with QT4.  Changing to a newer
version of QT would be a significant update to code, so I would not
expect to see migration to QT5 (or higher) until a Rivendell Version 4
branch.

Having said that, if you want an easy to install and update experience,
the best option is to grab CentOS7 and install Rivendell from the
Paravel repositories.  You can find instructions on this here:

http://static.paravelsystems.com/rivendell-install-rd3/rivendell-install-rhel7.html

I've done this and it really is a very smooth and easy installation. 
Furthermore when a new version comes out the command to update is very
easy: 

yum update rivendell

Otherwise if you want to run Rivendell on something else, then you're
pretty much on your own to compile it or rely on others in the community
and use their binaries (such as the Raspberry PI distribution).

Rivendell does compile and run on Ubuntu 18.04 based distributions (and
probably the version of Debian that 18.04 is based on, although I have
not tried this).  I've actually started putting together some directions
on how to compile on 18.04, I'm hoping to post these sometime this week
on the wiki.  Ubuntu 20.04 might be more of a challenge due to its
default QT packages being QT5.  I've seen some posts about repositories
that contain QT4 for 20.04.  This might be a way to get Rivendell to run
on 20.04, but I admit that I have not tried this so I don't know how
well it'll work.

Lorne Tyndale

> 
> 
> Hello folks.
> 
> I've been away for a while and now I've tried to compile Rivendell using
> some up to date distro like Ubuntu 20.04 or Mint 20 with no success at all.
> It complains about QT4, specially about libqt4-sql-mysql.
> 
> I'm not a dev (I wish I was) but as far as I understand QT4 it is being
> retired.
> Is there any Rivendell release using QT5 or any newer equivalent ?
> 
> I know it's easy to say and hard to do, but surely Rivendell would have a
> larger visibility if it were packed in 2 or more flavors, like RPM and DEB
> pointing to all dependencies it needs and ready for the modern distros,
> whether Ubuntu, Debian, Mint, Fedora, Centos 8, etc. Every time in the past
> I had to complite from source and every update was a kind of a pain.
> 
> As I said I wish I was a dev, but I'm just a sysadmin.
> 
> I really appreciate the effort of the entire community working on
> Rivendell. Thanks a lot.
> 
> Regards,
> Fernando Della Torre
> 
> +55 (16) 98137-1240___
> Rivendell-dev mailing list
> Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org
> http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev
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[RDD] Rivendell Future

[Fernando Della Torre]

Hello folks.

I've been away for a while and now I've tried to compile Rivendell using
some up to date distro like Ubuntu 20.04 or Mint 20 with no success at all.
It complains about QT4, specially about libqt4-sql-mysql.

I'm not a dev (I wish I was) but as far as I understand QT4 it is being
retired.
Is there any Rivendell release using QT5 or any newer equivalent ?

I know it's easy to say and hard to do, but surely Rivendell would have a
larger visibility if it were packed in 2 or more flavors, like RPM and DEB
pointing to all dependencies it needs and ready for the modern distros,
whether Ubuntu, Debian, Mint, Fedora, Centos 8, etc. Every time in the past
I had to complite from source and every update was a kind of a pain.

As I said I wish I was a dev, but I'm just a sysadmin.

I really appreciate the effort of the entire community working on
Rivendell. Thanks a lot.

Regards,
Fernando Della Torre

+55 (16) 98137-1240
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Re: [RDD] Avoiding Use of ASI Audio Device

[David Klann]

Hi Fred,

On 11/23/20 7:30 AM, you wrote:
> On Nov 22, 2020, at 19:21, David Klann  > wrote:
> 
>> This *seems* like a reasonable approach! But ... the hitch is that the
>> ALSA driver also uses the Audio Science firmware blobs. The snd-asihpi
>> driver expects firmware files to be in /lib/firmware/asihpi. And as soon
>> as I drop the file "dsp5000.bin" (the firmware for the 5020 card) into
>> that directory Rivendell seems to "see" it and RDAdmin->Manage
>> Hosts->[hostname]->Audio Resources reports that the Audio Science driver
>> is loaded (even though I've explicitly blacklisted the asihpi driver):
>>
>> SUPPORTED AUDIO DRIVERS
>>   AudioScience HPI [4.14.03]
>>   JACK Audio Connection Kit [Generic]
>>   Advanced Linux Sound Architecture (ALSA) [1.1.8]
>>
>> Note that even though I have the latest hpklinux driver package loaded
>> (4.20.10-1.el7.centos from the Paravel repo), it appears to be picking
>> up the version info from the firmware blob.
>>
>> I realize that I can move the firmware blob out of /lib/firmware/asihpi
>> and load the snd-asihpi driver *after* Rivendell has started. That *kind
>> of* works.
>>
>> Do you have any other thoughts on my understanding about what's
>> happening with the firmware blob?
> 
> You’re right! I’d forgotten all about the firmware aspect.
> 
> This is going to be a tough one to manage in any kind of way that avoids 
> weird, one-off processes. The firmware is absolutely needed by all ASI 
> cards to work (regardless if it’s via HPI or ALSA). It would 
> theoretically be possible to implement HPI support in a way that would 
> merely use the firmware supplied by the ALSA package, but that is going 
> to run into version issues sooner or later (the firmware supplied by 
> CentOS is typically quite old compared to the current version being 
> shipped by ASI; which often means that newer model cards will not work 
> with it). Perhaps we could provide an update to the CentOS firmware 
> package with the current ASI firmware?
> 
> Another possible approach would be to make the HPI driver a ‘soft’ 
> dependency (similar to the way the MPEG libraries are handled). That 
> would involve some code changes in Rivendell.
> 
> No easy answers here I fear.
> 

Thanks for your thoughts on this. So far it's mainly an "academic 
project", but there was enough about it that was compelling to me that I 
thought I'd follow through with it.

I've got it working, though it's a very manual process right now. It's 
kind of fun seeing the ASI card in the JACK connection graph, and now I 
can send the output from RDAirplay to both the studio console *and* the 
stream encoder (thanks for GlassCoder too!) without a super convoluted 
setup (well, I guess everything is relative... :)

The only other oddity is that since the ASI 5020 card is *so old*, I
haven't found any recent firmware -- it's at 4.14.03, which works, but ...

Thanks!

   ~David

> Cheers!
> 
> 
> |-|
> | Frederick F. Gleason, Jr. |             Chief Developer             |
> |                           |             Paravel Systems             |
> |-|
> |         A room without books is like a body without a soul.         |
> |                                                                     |
> |                                                         -- Cicero   |
> |-|

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Re: [RDD] Virtual Logs

[Lorne Tyndale]

Drew,

>From reading the little bit of documentation on virtual logs that I can
find, here is what I've been able to figure out:

-For virtual logs to work, rdvairplayd needs to be running.  It normally
is running/started as a part of the Rivendell service, but in my case
for some reason it wasn't running.  Restarting the service fixed the
issue for me.

-Virtual logs are all controlled entirely by macros.  Any of the macros
that have to do with controlling a log, for the machine number if you
put in the number of the virtual log you want to manipulate, it works. 
For example, to load a log into virtual log 103 you'd use RML: LL 103
[logname] [startline]!

-In rdadmin --> Manage Hosts --> RDAirplay you can set the audio card
output, startup control mode (automatic, manual, live assist), and
whether you want a virtual log to start with a log loaded or not

-Pypad instances can also handle virtual log data, see one of the pypad
setups for examples

-Unless I'm missing something, there does not seem to be a way to
actually "see" on the screen an output of what the virtual log is doing
as far as playout, the location in the log being played, or manipulate
the log as you can with the Main or Aux 1 and 2 logs in RDAirplay.  It
all has to be done with with macros.

Virtual logs are definitely a neat feature - I can see a great benefit
if you want to build a log in rdlogmanager or rdlogedit and then just
let it play without any user interaction with it.  I could see it being
useful if you're trying to run multiple unattended audio streams or
something like that.

Lorne Tyndale


> 
> 
> Lorne,
> 
> have you found some documentation that explains how this is supposed to
> work? I would like to start playing/experimenting with the virtual log
> stuff. Last time I looked, I could not find anything or get anything to
> work.
> 
> all the best,
> 
> drew
> 
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 1:36 AM Lorne Tyndale 
> wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > Figured it out. For some reason my rdvairplayd had not started properly.
> >  After I restarted my services the virtual logs and macros below started
> > working.
> >
> > Lorne Tyndale
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I'm trying to figure out how virtual logs work, and running into some
> > issues.
> > >
> > > I've set up a macro that is:
> > >
> > > LL 101 W_11_22_2020 -2!
> > >
> > >
> > > I'd thought this would load a log into the virtual log 101 and start to
> > play the first entry, but it doesn't seem to do anything, I don't get any
> > audio.
> > >
> > > The same exact macro replacing the "101" with "1", "2", or "3" works -
> > loads that log into the main or aux log in rdairplay and starts the playout.
> > >
> > > I tried doing a:
> > > PN 101!
> > >
> > > macro after the LL command above and that did not work either.
> > >
> > > I also tried other virtual log machines, 102 and 103, but those did not
> > work
> > >
> > > What am I missing?
> > >
> > > Lorne Tyndale
> > ___
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> > http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Enjoy the *Paradise Island Cam* playing
> *Bahamian Or Nuttin* - https://www.paradiseislandcam.com/
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Re: [RDD] Virtual Logs

[Fred Gleason]

On Nov 22, 2020, at 16:17, Lorne Tyndale  wrote:

> I'm trying to figure out how virtual logs work, and running into some issues.
>  
> I've set up a macro that is:
>  
> LL 101 W_11_22_2020 -2!
>  
>  
> I'd thought this would load a log into the virtual log 101 and start to play 
> the first entry, but it doesn't seem to do anything, I don't get any audio.
>  
> The same exact macro replacing the "101" with "1", "2", or "3" works - loads 
> that log into the main or aux log in rdairplay and starts the playout.
>  
> I tried doing a:
> PN 101!
>  
> macro after the LL command above and that did not work either.
>  
> I also tried other virtual log machines, 102 and 103, but those did not work
>  
> What am I missing? 

That should work, assuming that you’ve got an output set for the relevant vlog 
in rdadmin(1). What shows up in the syslog when you try this?

Cheers!


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| Frederick F. Gleason, Jr. | Chief Developer |
|   | Paravel Systems |
|-|
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| |
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Re: [RDD] Virtual Logs

[drew Roberts]

Lorne,

have you found some documentation that explains how this is supposed to
work? I would like to start playing/experimenting with the virtual log
stuff. Last time I looked, I could not find anything or get anything to
work.

all the best,

drew

On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 1:36 AM Lorne Tyndale 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Figured it out. For some reason my rdvairplayd had not started properly.
>  After I restarted my services the virtual logs and macros below started
> working.
>
> Lorne Tyndale
>
>
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm trying to figure out how virtual logs work, and running into some
> issues.
> >
> > I've set up a macro that is:
> >
> > LL 101 W_11_22_2020 -2!
> >
> >
> > I'd thought this would load a log into the virtual log 101 and start to
> play the first entry, but it doesn't seem to do anything, I don't get any
> audio.
> >
> > The same exact macro replacing the "101" with "1", "2", or "3" works -
> loads that log into the main or aux log in rdairplay and starts the playout.
> >
> > I tried doing a:
> > PN 101!
> >
> > macro after the LL command above and that did not work either.
> >
> > I also tried other virtual log machines, 102 and 103, but those did not
> work
> >
> > What am I missing?
> >
> > Lorne Tyndale
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>


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Re: [RDD] Avoiding Use of ASI Audio Device

[Fred Gleason]

On Nov 22, 2020, at 19:21, David Klann  wrote:

> This *seems* like a reasonable approach! But ... the hitch is that the 
> ALSA driver also uses the Audio Science firmware blobs. The snd-asihpi 
> driver expects firmware files to be in /lib/firmware/asihpi. And as soon 
> as I drop the file "dsp5000.bin" (the firmware for the 5020 card) into 
> that directory Rivendell seems to "see" it and RDAdmin->Manage 
> Hosts->[hostname]->Audio Resources reports that the Audio Science driver 
> is loaded (even though I've explicitly blacklisted the asihpi driver):
> 
> SUPPORTED AUDIO DRIVERS
>   AudioScience HPI [4.14.03]
>   JACK Audio Connection Kit [Generic]
>   Advanced Linux Sound Architecture (ALSA) [1.1.8]
> 
> Note that even though I have the latest hpklinux driver package loaded 
> (4.20.10-1.el7.centos from the Paravel repo), it appears to be picking 
> up the version info from the firmware blob.
> 
> I realize that I can move the firmware blob out of /lib/firmware/asihpi 
> and load the snd-asihpi driver *after* Rivendell has started. That *kind 
> of* works.
> 
> Do you have any other thoughts on my understanding about what's 
> happening with the firmware blob?

You’re right! I’d forgotten all about the firmware aspect.

This is going to be a tough one to manage in any kind of way that avoids weird, 
one-off processes. The firmware is absolutely needed by all ASI cards to work 
(regardless if it’s via HPI or ALSA). It would theoretically be possible to 
implement HPI support in a way that would merely use the firmware supplied by 
the ALSA package, but that is going to run into version issues sooner or later 
(the firmware supplied by CentOS is typically quite old compared to the current 
version being shipped by ASI; which often means that newer model cards will not 
work with it). Perhaps we could provide an update to the CentOS firmware 
package with the current ASI firmware?

Another possible approach would be to make the HPI driver a ‘soft’ dependency 
(similar to the way the MPEG libraries are handled). That would involve some 
code changes in Rivendell.

No easy answers here I fear.

Cheers!


|-|
| Frederick F. Gleason, Jr. | Chief Developer |
|   | Paravel Systems |
|-|
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| |
| -- Cicero   |
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Re: [RDD] Touchscreen Monitor

[Andy Higginson]

Hi,



I've got a complete mixture of touchscreens in use.  I've got some old Elo 
screens - 17" and 19", some Iiyama 22" budget capacitive touchscreens and some 
Viewsonic touchscreens.  The Elo screens were a pain to get calibrated but the 
Iiyama and Viewsonic screens worked out the box.  All of the screens are 
connected via USB for the touch side of things and a mixture of VGA and HDMI 
for the video.



Andy




 On Sun, 22 Nov 2020 23:49:20 + wa7skg  wrote 


Is anybody using touchscreens with Rivendell? Does it work well? Are 
there any economical touchscreens available these days? Is it really 
worth the extra expense? How is the touchscreen connection handled? They 
used to be via VGA and a serial port, but nothing has serial ports 
anymore. Is it via HDMI and USB? 
 
Thanks 
 
 
-- 
73, 
Michael WA7SKG 
 
"Any day you do not learn one new thing is a wasted day." 
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