Re: [sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
On Friday, December 5, 2014 1:35:09 PM UTC+1, Fredrik Johansson wrote: > > On Friday, December 5, 2014 1:08:14 PM UTC+1, Jori Mantysalo wrote: >> >> >> Having documentation arranged by technical implementation is also bad. >> Having TESTS-section shown for normal user is bad. Having is_lattice() on >> different page that is_meet_semilattice() is bad. >> > > Seconding this. > I've just seen this, sorry for being late. This topic of "improving documentation" is coming up over and over again. Last time, I've posted that I'll look into this (many months ago) and as a side project I've examined many existing solutions as a source for ideas and I've also played around with various techniques I've came across in the past years (html5-web-stuff, features from the LMFDB website, etc.) It's not conclusive to me how it should be done, but I fully agree that the technical documentation is too technical and will never make users happy. A loose orientation around smaller topics with many examples is better, also a tight interlinking across all areas (some automatic, some manual) is key. What's also required are actual content contributors, that's why I've also focused to make it really easy to contribute (plaintext markdown with some extras, in the future this could also be ReST) So, if anyone wants to have a peek view what I've been playing around: http://collscientiae.github.io/ The main topics you can see are just for demo purpose and regarding Sage, I envision that there are 6 or more sage-specific top-level entries … and the one about Python might also be nice, but it's just one at the bottom. code: https://github.com/collscientiae -- Harald -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
On Monday, December 15, 2014 11:44:25 AM UTC-8, William wrote: > > On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 11:34 AM, rjf > > wrote: > > >> William said ... There's no question that in say 200?, Microsoft > Windows support was > >> absolutely critical for widespread adoption of a piece of software in > >> a given market. Today, and certainly going into the future, this is > >> not so clear.The single most popular applications in the world > >> today are Google.com and Facebook.com [1], which have well over a > >> *billion* active users [2], and neither has a "working windows > >> version". > > > > > > Huh? They work for me on Windows. > > You're utterly missing the point. > Ah, you are claiming that in the future there will be no such things as (end user) applications and that everything will be a web page. And that windows (or whatever) will degenerate to be browsers and so it won't matter if sage-math-cloud runs as long as it is accessible from a browser. We have tread this path before. It was called time-sharing. Then we had smartish terminals with time-sharing. Then we had x-terminals, We also had single-user workstations, PCs, Macs, etc etc that were not time-shared usually (but could be), and then they were networked. And now we are told we should do time-sharing. It certainly is nice to have someone else install software on the central server(s), and charge you money only for the computing that you use. Has cloud computing has solved all the problems with time-shared systems? Like privacy? > > Saying that you could work on cloud computing.. eh, maybe for some > people > > for some projects for some of the time. > > I don't know what you're saying. > Like privacy? > > > Seems to me that Microsoft is not going to go away. There actually > > is a pile of software that still runs on Microsoft Windows and not on > > unix. Last I looked, Linux /free-open stuff was way behind on (say) > speech > > recognition. I'm sure there are other places too. > > I don't think Microsoft is going away -- indeed, my impression is that > Microsoft as a company is currently pushing for cloud computing as > their top priority. > > > Is there a native Android sage? > > No. > Oh, too bad. There is an Android Maxima. The simulated keyboard on my phone is inadequate though. RJF > > - William > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 11:34 AM, rjf wrote: > > > On Friday, December 5, 2014 12:39:55 PM UTC-8, William wrote: >> >> On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 12:19 PM, maldun wrote: >> > What we still don't have is a working windows version. This is still a >> > big >> > blocker for being succesfull. >> >> I don't want to in any way discourage anybody from working hard on >> Windows support for Sage. However, it's getting more difficult to >> argue that Windows support is a blocker to our mission statement. >> >> As I've explained elsewhere, I started SageMathCloud because of >> exactly this problem, and also that I'm thinking about where >> technology is going to be in a few years rather than where it was. >> I'm not arguing the SMC is *the* solution, just that web-based >> approaches are, including Sage cell server, Wakari, etc. >> >> There's no question that in say 200?, Microsoft Windows support was >> absolutely critical for widespread adoption of a piece of software in >> a given market. Today, and certainly going into the future, this is >> not so clear.The single most popular applications in the world >> today are Google.com and Facebook.com [1], which have well over a >> *billion* active users [2], and neither has a "working windows >> version". > > > Huh? They work for me on Windows. You're utterly missing the point. > Saying that you could work on cloud computing.. eh, maybe for some people > for some projects for some of the time. I don't know what you're saying. > Seems to me that Microsoft is not going to go away. There actually > is a pile of software that still runs on Microsoft Windows and not on > unix. Last I looked, Linux /free-open stuff was way behind on (say) speech > recognition. I'm sure there are other places too. I don't think Microsoft is going away -- indeed, my impression is that Microsoft as a company is currently pushing for cloud computing as their top priority. > Is there a native Android sage? No. - William -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
On Friday, December 5, 2014 12:39:55 PM UTC-8, William wrote: > > On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 12:19 PM, maldun > > wrote: > > What we still don't have is a working windows version. This is still a > big > > blocker for being succesfull. > > I don't want to in any way discourage anybody from working hard on > Windows support for Sage. However, it's getting more difficult to > argue that Windows support is a blocker to our mission statement. > > As I've explained elsewhere, I started SageMathCloud because of > exactly this problem, and also that I'm thinking about where > technology is going to be in a few years rather than where it was. > I'm not arguing the SMC is *the* solution, just that web-based > approaches are, including Sage cell server, Wakari, etc. > > There's no question that in say 200?, Microsoft Windows support was > absolutely critical for widespread adoption of a piece of software in > a given market. Today, and certainly going into the future, this is > not so clear.The single most popular applications in the world > today are Google.com and Facebook.com [1], which have well over a > *billion* active users [2], and neither has a "working windows > version". > Huh? They work for me on Windows. Saying that you could work on cloud computing.. eh, maybe for some people for some projects for some of the time. Seems to me that Microsoft is not going to go away. There actually is a pile of software that still runs on Microsoft Windows and not on unix. Last I looked, Linux /free-open stuff was way behind on (say) speech recognition. I'm sure there are other places too. Is there a native Android sage? (I know that Maxima runs on my phone, but without a keyboard, it's clumsy.) RJF -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
> Another weakness of the Sage reference manual is that the doctest examples > only show text output -- the Ma's examples often show graphical output, > which can be a great help. This is being solved ! https://groups.google.com/d/topic/sage-devel/JnuAAd7iH2g/discussion Nathann -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
> > sage: fricas.integrate(x^2,x).unparsed_input_form() > '(1/3)*x^3' > Or, more usefully : sage: toto=eval(preparse(fricas.integrate(x^2,x).unparsed_input_form())) ; toto 1/3*x^3 sage: parent(toto) Symbolic Ring sage: type(toto) which might be the point of the whole exercise... HTH, -- Emmanuel Charpentier -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
Le samedi 6 décembre 2014 15:38:20 UTC+1, Ralf Stephan a écrit :
>
> On Saturday, December 6, 2014 11:59:14 AM UTC+1, mmarco wrote:
>>
>> If FriCAS is right now the best software for computing these kind of
>> integrals, it might be worth the effort to include it as standard package,
>> write a good interface and adapt the integrate methods to use it, at least
>> as a fallback option.
>>
>
> The interface already exists:
> sage: fricas('3 * 5')
> ...
> TypeError: unable to start fricas because the command 'fricas -nox
> -noclef' failed
> $ ./sage -i fricas
> ...
> Error installing package fricas-0.3.1
>
> Please email sage-devel (http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel)
> explaining the problem and including the relevant part of the log file
> /home/ralf/sage/logs/pkgs/fricas-0.3.1.log
>
> http://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/9465
>
> Regards,
>
That interface calls a systemwide fricas. This works for me...
HTH,
--
Emmanuel Charpentier
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
Hi, I don't know which of the following is better in the "three M"'s as I have close to no experience with them, but I suspect at least the documentation part is... - Dima Pasechnik mentioned representation theory of associative algebras, but even linear algebra over fields is not implemented in Sage when the vector spaces are not given as R^n or R^m but as CombinatorialFreeModules. This can be worked around in any specific situation by mapping them to R^n and R^m, but the work required grows with the complexity of the question, and this ends up being severely limiting. - Implementers of classes have to make decisions which really should be left to users of their classes. When you create your class of (say) posets, you have to decide whether to cache covering relations or to compute them every time as needed; whether to compute certain invariants when the class is being created or only later; how to represent the data internally; etc.. But there is no right way to make such decisions; it all depends on the user and whether he is planning to study one or two posets in detail or to generate thousands of them as intermediate steps of an algorithm. (For a better example, we recently had a discussion of how much information about a Coxeter group should be computed at the moment of its creation.) We should IMHO use abstract classes more often, but I see very few examples of this in Sage. - Documentation. Sorry, but much of it reads like mason's marks from thousand years ago; particularly on underscored methods (I think people believe that underscore means noone will ever want to use it, but that's not true). Best regards, Darij -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
On Saturday, December 6, 2014 4:30:35 PM UTC+1, bluescarni wrote: > > - I imagine if you calculate it as an elliptic integral (say, using the > Weierstrassian functions) you would end up with elliptic invariants g1 and > g2 with special values that make the elliptic integral collapse to an > elementary function? > Define elementary. I guess the integral is a holonomic function. x/(exp(x)-1) is not, though it looks quite elementary. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holonomic_function Just a guess. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
On 5 December 2014 at 20:48, 'Martin R' via sage-devel < sage-devel@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > A famous example is > > integrate(x/sqrt(x^4+10*x^2+-96*x-71),x) > > which Mathematica won't do, although it is elementary, i.e., has a > solution in terms of elementary functions: > > > log((x^6+15*x^4+-80*x^3+27*x^2+-528*x+781)*(x^4+10*x^2+-96*x+-71)^(1/2)+(x^8 > +20*x^6+-128*x^5+54*x^4+-1408*x^3+3124*x^2+10001))/8 > That is pretty interesting, I would've treated this as an elliptic integral without thinking about it twice. I have two questions: - I imagine if you calculate it as an elliptic integral (say, using the Weierstrassian functions) you would end up with elliptic invariants g1 and g2 with special values that make the elliptic integral collapse to an elementary function? - The factorization of the polynomial in the integrand yields a suspiciously symmetrical form in the factors, is that the reason why the integral can be evaluated with elementary functions? Sorry for the OT! Francesco. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
On 5 December 2014 at 21:45, maldun wrote: > I agree with you that it is not that important as it was some years ago. > Nevertheless be aware that many professional users in engineering > and research can't go online that simply, because of security reasons, and > company policies (I know that from first hand), > and they are a big market which we should not underestimate. > +1 In many engineering/industrial/technical contexts, especially in big corporations, a Windows workstation is still the default setup, OSX is non-existent, and Linux/Unix is relegated to HPC and clusters. This is not going to change substantially in the short term. I think there is also a code-quality rationale for having strong multi-platform and multi-architecture support. Software is a bit like a lifeform, living in and adapting to different environments makes it stronger and more resilient. Cheers, Francesco. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
On Saturday, December 6, 2014 11:59:14 AM UTC+1, mmarco wrote:
>
> If FriCAS is right now the best software for computing these kind of
> integrals, it might be worth the effort to include it as standard package,
> write a good interface and adapt the integrate methods to use it, at least
> as a fallback option.
>
The interface already exists:
sage: fricas('3 * 5')
...
TypeError: unable to start fricas because the command 'fricas -nox -noclef'
failed
$ ./sage -i fricas
...
Error installing package fricas-0.3.1
Please email sage-devel (http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel)
explaining the problem and including the relevant part of the log file
/home/ralf/sage/logs/pkgs/fricas-0.3.1.log
http://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/9465
Regards,
--
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
El sábado, 6 de diciembre de 2014 09:57:09 UTC+1, tdumont escribió: > > Hi, > If I read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risch_algorithm > I understand that : f=x/(sqrt(x^4+10*x^2-96*x-71)) has an anti-primitive. > I do not have maple, so I do nt know if Maple can integrate it; bur > sage cannot: > > > >f=x/(sqrt(x^4+10*x^2-96*x-71)) > >integral(f,x) > integrate(x/sqrt(x^4 + 10*x^2 - 96*x - 71), x) > > t. > As mentioned by Martin R in other comments, FriCAS can find the primitive of that expresion in terms of elementary functions. I have just checked that Wolphram Alpha can't do it, and a quite old version of Maple that i have just checked gives the answer in terms of elliptic integrals. If FriCAS is right now the best software for computing these kind of integrals, it might be worth the effort to include it as standard package, write a good interface and adapt the integrate methods to use it, at least as a fallback option. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
Hi, If I read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risch_algorithm I understand that : f=x/(sqrt(x^4+10*x^2-96*x-71)) has an anti-primitive. I do not have maple, so I do nt know if Maple can integrate it; bur sage cannot: >f=x/(sqrt(x^4+10*x^2-96*x-71)) >integral(f,x) integrate(x/sqrt(x^4 + 10*x^2 - 96*x - 71), x) t. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. <>
Re: [sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
Hi, Le 05/12/2014 21:45, maldun a écrit : I agree with you that it is not that important as it was some years ago. Nevertheless be aware that many professional users in engineering and research can't go online that simply, because of security reasons, and company policies (I know that from first hand), and they are a big market which we should not underestimate. There's a point to be made that a professional user in engineering and research which doesn't have access to anything else that windows is a rare species facing extinction! Snark on #sagemath -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 12:45 PM, maldun wrote: > I agree with you that it is not that important as it was some years ago. > Nevertheless be aware that many professional users in engineering > and research can't go online that simply, because of security reasons, and > company policies (I know that from first hand), > and they are a big market which we should not underestimate. You are of course 100% right, and adding the above about for what group of users windows support is important just helps make this item on the list "What are we unable to do right now?" clearer. -- William > > On Friday, December 5, 2014 9:39:55 PM UTC+1, William wrote: >> >> On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 12:19 PM, maldun wrote: >> > What we still don't have is a working windows version. This is still a >> > big >> > blocker for being succesfull. >> >> I don't want to in any way discourage anybody from working hard on >> Windows support for Sage. However, it's getting more difficult to >> argue that Windows support is a blocker to our mission statement. >> >> As I've explained elsewhere, I started SageMathCloud because of >> exactly this problem, and also that I'm thinking about where >> technology is going to be in a few years rather than where it was. >> I'm not arguing the SMC is *the* solution, just that web-based >> approaches are, including Sage cell server, Wakari, etc. >> >> There's no question that in say 200?, Microsoft Windows support was >> absolutely critical for widespread adoption of a piece of software in >> a given market. Today, and certainly going into the future, this is >> not so clear.The single most popular applications in the world >> today are Google.com and Facebook.com [1], which have well over a >> *billion* active users [2], and neither has a "working windows >> version".And it appears based on [3] and blogs that much of the >> math software development work by Wolfram Inc is about making >> Mathematica available online. >> >> Online is where the puck is going. Actually, it is arguably where the >> puck already is. (For huge applications, mobile is just a different >> interface to online.) >> >> -- William >> >> [1] http://www.alexa.com/topsites >> [2] http://newsroom.fb.com/company-info/ >> [3] https://www.wolframcloud.com/ >> >> > >> > On Friday, December 5, 2014 8:17:44 AM UTC+1, Nathann Cohen wrote: >> >> >> >> Helloo everybody ! >> >> >> >> I am preparing some Sage talk, and I wanted to say at some point: >> >> "Honestly we are not that good. We have strong points but we miss many >> >> things too. It all depends on what the developpers are interested in: >> >> we are >> >> great on some research areas, and under water level on others" >> >> >> >> Somehow this question is also related to William's "Sage has failed", >> >> as >> >> we cannot be a replacement for Mathematica/Maple/ unless we cover >> >> all >> >> kinds of mathematics. >> >> >> >> In your past experiences (possibly when using Sage to teach in a >> >> classroom), in which areas do you think we are behind users' >> >> expectations ? >> >> >> >> If we had such a list, we could even start asking people around "Do you >> >> work on X ? Cool, we need your help for something big". We could also >> >> have a >> >> list of such domains on our website, and do some (cheap) propaganda >> >> like: >> >> >> >> "Sage as in 'Free Beer': if you can help us develop Sage's features in >> >> the >> >> areas above, we owe you one. Actually we owe you many. Become a >> >> contributor >> >> and be rewarded with a free beer from every Sage developper you will >> >> meet >> >> around the world" >> >> >> >> We have to know what we cannot do. So let's make a list. >> >> >> >> Nathann >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > Groups >> > "sage-devel" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> > an >> > email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com. >> > To post to this group, send email to sage-...@googlegroups.com. >> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. >> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> >> -- >> William Stein >> Professor of Mathematics >> University of Washington >> http://wstein.org > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "sage-devel" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubs
Re: [sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
I agree with you that it is not that important as it was some years ago. Nevertheless be aware that many professional users in engineering and research can't go online that simply, because of security reasons, and company policies (I know that from first hand), and they are a big market which we should not underestimate. On Friday, December 5, 2014 9:39:55 PM UTC+1, William wrote: > > On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 12:19 PM, maldun > > wrote: > > What we still don't have is a working windows version. This is still a > big > > blocker for being succesfull. > > I don't want to in any way discourage anybody from working hard on > Windows support for Sage. However, it's getting more difficult to > argue that Windows support is a blocker to our mission statement. > > As I've explained elsewhere, I started SageMathCloud because of > exactly this problem, and also that I'm thinking about where > technology is going to be in a few years rather than where it was. > I'm not arguing the SMC is *the* solution, just that web-based > approaches are, including Sage cell server, Wakari, etc. > > There's no question that in say 200?, Microsoft Windows support was > absolutely critical for widespread adoption of a piece of software in > a given market. Today, and certainly going into the future, this is > not so clear.The single most popular applications in the world > today are Google.com and Facebook.com [1], which have well over a > *billion* active users [2], and neither has a "working windows > version".And it appears based on [3] and blogs that much of the > math software development work by Wolfram Inc is about making > Mathematica available online. > > Online is where the puck is going. Actually, it is arguably where the > puck already is. (For huge applications, mobile is just a different > interface to online.) > > -- William > > [1] http://www.alexa.com/topsites > [2] http://newsroom.fb.com/company-info/ > [3] https://www.wolframcloud.com/ > > > > > On Friday, December 5, 2014 8:17:44 AM UTC+1, Nathann Cohen wrote: > >> > >> Helloo everybody ! > >> > >> I am preparing some Sage talk, and I wanted to say at some point: > >> "Honestly we are not that good. We have strong points but we miss many > >> things too. It all depends on what the developpers are interested in: > we are > >> great on some research areas, and under water level on others" > >> > >> Somehow this question is also related to William's "Sage has failed", > as > >> we cannot be a replacement for Mathematica/Maple/ unless we cover > all > >> kinds of mathematics. > >> > >> In your past experiences (possibly when using Sage to teach in a > >> classroom), in which areas do you think we are behind users' > expectations ? > >> > >> If we had such a list, we could even start asking people around "Do you > >> work on X ? Cool, we need your help for something big". We could also > have a > >> list of such domains on our website, and do some (cheap) propaganda > like: > >> > >> "Sage as in 'Free Beer': if you can help us develop Sage's features in > the > >> areas above, we owe you one. Actually we owe you many. Become a > contributor > >> and be rewarded with a free beer from every Sage developper you will > meet > >> around the world" > >> > >> We have to know what we cannot do. So let's make a list. > >> > >> Nathann > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > "sage-devel" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an > > email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com . > > To post to this group, send email to sage-...@googlegroups.com > . > > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > William Stein > Professor of Mathematics > University of Washington > http://wstein.org > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 12:19 PM, maldun wrote: > What we still don't have is a working windows version. This is still a big > blocker for being succesfull. I don't want to in any way discourage anybody from working hard on Windows support for Sage. However, it's getting more difficult to argue that Windows support is a blocker to our mission statement. As I've explained elsewhere, I started SageMathCloud because of exactly this problem, and also that I'm thinking about where technology is going to be in a few years rather than where it was. I'm not arguing the SMC is *the* solution, just that web-based approaches are, including Sage cell server, Wakari, etc. There's no question that in say 200?, Microsoft Windows support was absolutely critical for widespread adoption of a piece of software in a given market. Today, and certainly going into the future, this is not so clear.The single most popular applications in the world today are Google.com and Facebook.com [1], which have well over a *billion* active users [2], and neither has a "working windows version".And it appears based on [3] and blogs that much of the math software development work by Wolfram Inc is about making Mathematica available online. Online is where the puck is going. Actually, it is arguably where the puck already is. (For huge applications, mobile is just a different interface to online.) -- William [1] http://www.alexa.com/topsites [2] http://newsroom.fb.com/company-info/ [3] https://www.wolframcloud.com/ > > On Friday, December 5, 2014 8:17:44 AM UTC+1, Nathann Cohen wrote: >> >> Helloo everybody ! >> >> I am preparing some Sage talk, and I wanted to say at some point: >> "Honestly we are not that good. We have strong points but we miss many >> things too. It all depends on what the developpers are interested in: we are >> great on some research areas, and under water level on others" >> >> Somehow this question is also related to William's "Sage has failed", as >> we cannot be a replacement for Mathematica/Maple/ unless we cover all >> kinds of mathematics. >> >> In your past experiences (possibly when using Sage to teach in a >> classroom), in which areas do you think we are behind users' expectations ? >> >> If we had such a list, we could even start asking people around "Do you >> work on X ? Cool, we need your help for something big". We could also have a >> list of such domains on our website, and do some (cheap) propaganda like: >> >> "Sage as in 'Free Beer': if you can help us develop Sage's features in the >> areas above, we owe you one. Actually we owe you many. Become a contributor >> and be rewarded with a free beer from every Sage developper you will meet >> around the world" >> >> We have to know what we cannot do. So let's make a list. >> >> Nathann > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "sage-devel" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
What we still don't have is a working windows version. This is still a big blocker for being succesfull. On Friday, December 5, 2014 8:17:44 AM UTC+1, Nathann Cohen wrote: > > Helloo everybody ! > > I am preparing some Sage talk, and I wanted to say at some point: > "Honestly we are not that good. We have strong points but we miss many > things too. It all depends on what the developpers are interested in: we > are great on some research areas, and under water level on others" > > Somehow this question is also related to William's "Sage has failed", as > we cannot be a replacement for Mathematica/Maple/ unless we cover all > kinds of mathematics. > > In your past experiences (possibly when using Sage to teach in a > classroom), in which areas do you think we are behind users' expectations ? > > If we had such a list, we could even start asking people around "Do you > work on X ? Cool, we need your help for something big". We could also have > a list of such domains on our website, and do some (cheap) propaganda like: > > "Sage as in 'Free Beer': if you can help us develop Sage's features in the > areas above, we owe you one. Actually we owe you many. Become a contributor > and be rewarded with a free beer from every Sage developper you will meet > around the world" > > We have to know what we cannot do. So let's make a list. > > Nathann > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
> > I am confused. How can fricas outperform mathematica if it is only suited > for elementary integration? I meant the term in the technical sense: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonelementary_integral As far as I know (but I may well be mistaken, I'm not an expert in this area), FriCAS has the most complete implementation of the Risch algorithm. This means, besides bugs and nonimplemented branches, if FriCAS cannot do the integral, this is a proof that it has no elementary solution. Beware however, that it has bugs and nonimplemented branches. As I mentioned, Waldek is continuously improving the implementation, which I find quite notable, since it is hard work and hardly recognised. Martin A famous example is integrate(x/sqrt(x^4+10*x^2+-96*x-71),x) which Mathematica won't do, although it is elementary, i.e., has a solution in terms of elementary functions: log((x^6+15*x^4+-80*x^3+27*x^2+-528*x+781)*(x^4+10*x^2+-96*x+-71)^(1/2)+(x^8 +20*x^6+-128*x^5+54*x^4+-1408*x^3+3124*x^2+10001))/8 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
I am confused. How can fricas outperform mathematica if it is only suited for elementary integration? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
On 2014-12-05, Travis Scrimshaw wrote: > --=_Part_1543_1865320583.1417795602964 > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="=_Part_1544_1476759575.1417795602965" > > --=_Part_1544_1476759575.1417795602965 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Hey Dima, > >>> some pedestrian-level representation theory of associative algebras >> > >> > Do you mean stuff like representations of path algebras (which are >> > highly non-commutative associative algebras)? Minimal projective >> > resolutions of basic algebras? I'm currently working on that. >> >> no, I meant finite-dimensional associative algebras, say defined >> by matrix generators or structure constants. (I mostly care for char=0 >> case here). >> E.g. Magma can compute their absolutely irreducibe representations, >> at least for certain fields like number fields. >> > > Is there a reference for how to construct these irreps? We have > finite-dimensional matrix algebras whose multiplication is given by > matrices. I have code for finite-dimensional Lie algebras given by > structure coefficients that could easily be expanded to cover algebras (and > infinite dimensional). http://www.ams.org/mathscinet-getitem?mr=2879232 I'd be quite surprised if you can do what they do by other means. It depends upon ability to compute nonabelian maximal orders. Dima -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
Am Freitag, 5. Dezember 2014 17:18:37 UTC+1 schrieb mmarco: > > Can you give some further info about it? Do we have an updated package for > fricas or do we need to install it system-wide? > > I do not have a recent fricas installed, but with the old fricas I have, I can simply do sage: fricas.integrate(x^2,x) 1 3 - x 3 (to get ascii-art), or sage: fricas.integrate(x^2,x).unparsed_input_form() '(1/3)*x^3' (Just to make sure: you have to keep in mind that fricas is good only for "elementary" integration.) Martin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
Can you give some further info about it? Do we have an updated package for fricas or do we need to install it system-wide? It would be nice to have something like foo.integral(algorithm='fricas') for the cases of integrals that maxima and sympy can't compute. El viernes, 5 de diciembre de 2014 16:35:04 UTC+1, Martin R escribió: > > * Symbolics in general. Symbolic integration and summation. Rewriting >> expressions. Simplifying inequalities. Simplifying expressions subject to >> assumptions involving inequalities. Limits and generalized series >> expansions involving special functions. Sage can do a bit of these things >> via Maxima and SymPy, but it's nowhere near as powerful as Mathematica. >> > > What concerns indefinite symbolic integration, you can use the FriCAS > interface. This outperforms Mathematica, Maple, Maxima and is continuously > improved on by Waldek Hebisch. > > Martin > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
Hey Dima, >> some pedestrian-level representation theory of associative algebras > > > > Do you mean stuff like representations of path algebras (which are > > highly non-commutative associative algebras)? Minimal projective > > resolutions of basic algebras? I'm currently working on that. > > no, I meant finite-dimensional associative algebras, say defined > by matrix generators or structure constants. (I mostly care for char=0 > case here). > E.g. Magma can compute their absolutely irreducibe representations, > at least for certain fields like number fields. > Is there a reference for how to construct these irreps? We have finite-dimensional matrix algebras whose multiplication is given by matrices. I have code for finite-dimensional Lie algebras given by structure coefficients that could easily be expanded to cover algebras (and infinite dimensional). Hey Nathann, - We currently do not have native support for Lie algebras and quantum groups (although these can be accessed through GAP), but I'm working on this. (Although we do have some support for representations of Kac-Moody Lie algebras (over CC) through crystals.) IDK if other M's have support for these, but I think could support better: - General CW or cubical complexes. Our simplicial complexes are okay, but could likely be improved as well. Actually, I don't think there's much code for algebraic topology... - There are no infinite chain complexes implemented in Sage (with this we could potentially help the previous point). - Knot theory (but is being worked on). - Probability theory, on finite sets in particular, or at least having things phrased like how I learned it in classes (like random variables, distributions, etc.) Best, Travis -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
> > * Symbolics in general. Symbolic integration and summation. Rewriting > expressions. Simplifying inequalities. Simplifying expressions subject to > assumptions involving inequalities. Limits and generalized series > expansions involving special functions. Sage can do a bit of these things > via Maxima and SymPy, but it's nowhere near as powerful as Mathematica. > What concerns indefinite symbolic integration, you can use the FriCAS interface. This outperforms Mathematica, Maple, Maxima and is continuously improved on by Waldek Hebisch. Martin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
> > > * Many numerical functions do not work with arbitrary precision. In > Mathematica and Maple, arbitrary precision works seamlessly pretty much > everywhere. In Sage, a lot of functions are hardcoded for double precision. > A first step would be to provide really solid support for basic numerical > calculus (like computing integrals, #8321) by leveraging what's available > in Pari and mpmath. When it comes to things like multivariate optimization, > solving ODEs and PDEs, etc. with arbitrary precision, I don't think there's > any open source software that competes with Mathematica. > About solving ODE's numerically with high precision, we have recently added an optional TIDES package (which is a state of the art library for this kind of thing), together with an interface to it. Take a look at: http://www.sagemath.org/doc/reference/calculus/sage/calculus/desolvers.html#sage.calculus.desolvers.desolve_tides_mpfr > > * Performance. You often run into a wall as soon as you do anything > slightly complicated in Sage that isn't directly wrapping the right > C/C++/Cython implementation. Bill Hart had an example of computing a > resultant of two large (but not astronomically large) multivariate > polynomials over a finite field, where Magma does it in a minute, Bill's > Julia code does it in 5 seconds, and he had to kill Sage after waiting for > hours... > > Fredrik > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
On Fri, 5 Dec 2014, Fredrik Johansson wrote: Another weakness of the Sage reference manual is that the doctest examples only show text output -- the Ma's examples often show graphical output, which can be a great help. Having this would be very, very, very nice thing to have! For many poset functions it would make written explanation almost unneeded. -- Jori Mäntysalo
Re: [sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
On Friday, December 5, 2014 1:08:14 PM UTC+1, Jori Mantysalo wrote: > > > Having documentation arranged by technical implementation is also bad. > Having TESTS-section shown for normal user is bad. Having is_lattice() on > different page that is_meet_semilattice() is bad. > Seconding this. Mixing tests and documentation has its benefits, but it also severely reduces the signal-to-noise ratio for non-developers. In most sections of the Sage reference manual, there is no preamble explaining the mathematical context, and no indication of what the most important methods are (it can be hard for the user to find the right method in an alphabetical list that spans several pages). The structure is sometimes strange: for example, "Solving ODE numerically by GSL" is listed under "Symbolic Calculus"... and on the other hand "Numerical Optimization" is listed under "Miscellaneous Mathematics". Maple/Mathematica/Matlab generally do a better job of grouping functions logically by subject area, listing *relevant* examples, and allowing the user to find related methods easily. Another weakness of the Sage reference manual is that the doctest examples only show text output -- the Ma's examples often show graphical output, which can be a great help. Fredrik -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
On 2014-12-05, Fredrik Johansson wrote: > --=_Part_1821_492426932.1417781508772 > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="=_Part_1822_1964954233.1417781508772" > > --=_Part_1822_1964954233.1417781508772 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > On Friday, December 5, 2014 8:17:44 AM UTC+1, Nathann Cohen wrote: >> >> Helloo everybody ! >> >> I am preparing some Sage talk, and I wanted to say at some point: >> "Honestly we are not that good. We have strong points but we miss many >> things too. It all depends on what the developpers are interested in: we >> are great on some research areas, and under water level on others" >> >> Somehow this question is also related to William's "Sage has failed", as >> we cannot be a replacement for Mathematica/Maple/ unless we cover all >> kinds of mathematics. >> >> In your past experiences (possibly when using Sage to teach in a >> classroom), in which areas do you think we are behind users' expectations ? >> > > * Symbolics in general. Symbolic integration and summation. Rewriting > expressions. Simplifying inequalities. Simplifying expressions subject to > assumptions involving inequalities. Limits and generalized series > expansions involving special functions. Sage can do a bit of these things > via Maxima and SymPy, but it's nowhere near as powerful as Mathematica. > > * Many numerical functions do not work with arbitrary precision. In > Mathematica and Maple, arbitrary precision works seamlessly pretty much > everywhere. In Sage, a lot of functions are hardcoded for double precision. > A first step would be to provide really solid support for basic numerical > calculus (like computing integrals, #8321) by leveraging what's available > in Pari and mpmath. When it comes to things like multivariate optimization, > solving ODEs and PDEs, etc. with arbitrary precision, I don't think there's > any open source software that competes with Mathematica. The latter is not that uniformly bad. E.g. Sage beats the MMas on arbitrary precision linear optimisation :-) Asn well, there are OSS's, not (yet) in Sage, that do arbitrary precision semidefinite optimisation (a particular kind of convex optimisation, generalising linear) something that the MMas don't do. Dima > > * Performance. You often run into a wall as soon as you do anything > slightly complicated in Sage that isn't directly wrapping the right > C/C++/Cython implementation. Bill Hart had an example of computing a > resultant of two large (but not astronomically large) multivariate > polynomials over a finite field, where Magma does it in a minute, Bill's > Julia code does it in 5 seconds, and he had to kill Sage after waiting for > hours... > > Fredrik > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
On Friday, December 5, 2014 8:17:44 AM UTC+1, Nathann Cohen wrote: > > Helloo everybody ! > > I am preparing some Sage talk, and I wanted to say at some point: > "Honestly we are not that good. We have strong points but we miss many > things too. It all depends on what the developpers are interested in: we > are great on some research areas, and under water level on others" > > Somehow this question is also related to William's "Sage has failed", as > we cannot be a replacement for Mathematica/Maple/ unless we cover all > kinds of mathematics. > > In your past experiences (possibly when using Sage to teach in a > classroom), in which areas do you think we are behind users' expectations ? > * Symbolics in general. Symbolic integration and summation. Rewriting expressions. Simplifying inequalities. Simplifying expressions subject to assumptions involving inequalities. Limits and generalized series expansions involving special functions. Sage can do a bit of these things via Maxima and SymPy, but it's nowhere near as powerful as Mathematica. * Many numerical functions do not work with arbitrary precision. In Mathematica and Maple, arbitrary precision works seamlessly pretty much everywhere. In Sage, a lot of functions are hardcoded for double precision. A first step would be to provide really solid support for basic numerical calculus (like computing integrals, #8321) by leveraging what's available in Pari and mpmath. When it comes to things like multivariate optimization, solving ODEs and PDEs, etc. with arbitrary precision, I don't think there's any open source software that competes with Mathematica. * Performance. You often run into a wall as soon as you do anything slightly complicated in Sage that isn't directly wrapping the right C/C++/Cython implementation. Bill Hart had an example of computing a resultant of two large (but not astronomically large) multivariate polynomials over a finite field, where Magma does it in a minute, Bill's Julia code does it in 5 seconds, and he had to kill Sage after waiting for hours... Fredrik -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
Factorization of multivariate polynomials on ZZ is not possible. Actually it is, but you have to convert them to QQ first. And for beginner this kind of things are obstacles. * * * I think that also error reporting is not optimal for most users, and horror for beginner. It should be something like "Error: Unclosed '['. Did you forget ']'?" Or why do I get SyntaxError from "1 + 2"? I just copied it from a document, where happens to be non-breaking space (U+00A0). How make this happen, that I don't know. * * * Having documentation arranged by technical implementation is also bad. Having TESTS-section shown for normal user is bad. Having is_lattice() on different page that is_meet_semilattice() is bad. * * * The fact that I like Sage does not mean that I don't also hate it. -- Jori Mäntysalo
[sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
Hi Simon, On 2014-12-05, Simon King wrote: > On 2014-12-05, Dima Pasechnik wrote: >> some pedestrian-level representation theory of associative algebras > > Do you mean stuff like representations of path algebras (which are > highly non-commutative associative algebras)? Minimal projective > resolutions of basic algebras? I'm currently working on that. no, I meant finite-dimensional associative algebras, say defined by matrix generators or structure constants. (I mostly care for char=0 case here). E.g. Magma can compute their absolutely irreducibe representations, at least for certain fields like number fields. > >> support for sparse matrices over R and C is lacking in a big way >> (and in general sparse matrices are very slow etc;) > > +1. Sparse matrices are quite important, among others for implementing > Faugère algorithms to compute Gröbner bases. I have a plan to enable sparse matrices for RDF and CDF via cvxopt, which are quite good there. But that's only for these fields. Dima -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
Hi Dima, On 2014-12-05, Dima Pasechnik wrote: > some pedestrian-level representation theory of associative algebras Do you mean stuff like representations of path algebras (which are highly non-commutative associative algebras)? Minimal projective resolutions of basic algebras? I'm currently working on that. > support for sparse matrices over R and C is lacking in a big way > (and in general sparse matrices are very slow etc;) +1. Sparse matrices are quite important, among others for implementing Faugère algorithms to compute Gröbner bases. Best regards, Simon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
We have very little to work on modules over polynomial rings (no groebner basis, resolutions, etc). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
Specifically in my opinion, many special functions and polynomials are still not symbolic. This prevents for example implementations of creative telescoping. Regards, -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
On 2014-12-05, Nathann Cohen wrote: > --f46d0438906335ad0d050972df25 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Helloo everybody ! > > I am preparing some Sage talk, and I wanted to say at some point: "Honestly > we are not that good. We have strong points but we miss many things too. It > all depends on what the developpers are interested in: we are great on some > research areas, and under water level on others" some pedestrian-level representation theory of associative algebras (I already mentioned this a while ago when Anne asked about what they can do witnin their grant project...) support for sparse matrices over R and C is lacking in a big way (and in general sparse matrices are very slow etc;) > > Somehow this question is also related to William's "Sage has failed", as we > cannot be a replacement for Mathematica/Maple/ unless we cover all > kinds of mathematics. > > In your past experiences (possibly when using Sage to teach in a > classroom), in which areas do you think we are behind users' expectations ? > > If we had such a list, we could even start asking people around "Do you > work on X ? Cool, we need your help for something big". We could also have > a list of such domains on our website, and do some (cheap) propaganda like: > > "Sage as in 'Free Beer': if you can help us develop Sage's features in the > areas above, we owe you one. Actually we owe you many. Become a contributor > and be rewarded with a free beer from every Sage developper you will meet > around the world" > > We have to know what we cannot do. So let's make a list. > > Nathann > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
I feel that some plots could be better. I often end up writing pure matplotlib code. For example for histograms, boxplots (current version is limited) etc... On Fri Dec 05 2014 at 07:22:58 Nathann Cohen wrote: > Weird to answer your own thread, but I think that we are bad for plots. > Look at that: > > sage: graphs.RandomTree(40).show() > sage: graphs.RandomTree(40).show(method="js") > > The first one is a picture, the second uses d3.js. You can do a lot of > crazy things with it, and it is done in javascript: > > https://github.com/mbostock/d3/wiki/Gallery > > Anyway. Let us use this thread ot make the list of what is wrong, and we > will try to solve each problem independently in domain-specific threads. > > Nathann > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "sage-devel" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: What are we unable to do right now ?
Weird to answer your own thread, but I think that we are bad for plots. Look at that: sage: graphs.RandomTree(40).show() sage: graphs.RandomTree(40).show(method="js") The first one is a picture, the second uses d3.js. You can do a lot of crazy things with it, and it is done in javascript: https://github.com/mbostock/d3/wiki/Gallery Anyway. Let us use this thread ot make the list of what is wrong, and we will try to solve each problem independently in domain-specific threads. Nathann -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
