Re: [sage-devel] Re: GSOC 2012
On 02/16/12 12:22 AM, rjf wrote: IMHO, a native port of Sage to Windows could not be done in a week or two. Perhaps a Cygwin port could, but I'm talking of a native port, where the code runs directly on Windows, without any Linux virtual machines, emulators or similar. I see no reason to reject MinGW, Cygwin, or other libraries as part of a Sage system on Windows. If you wish, I'll offer you a 20:1 bet.. If you, or someone you know, can get a full port of Sage done inside a month, I'll pay you $2000. I think that a month (160 hours X expert rate of, say, $500/hour) would do it. That is far more than $2,000. Yes, it's a ridiculously high hourly rate too for a programmer. In the current economic climate, a contractor would be reasonably happy earning $500/day, not an hour. I think $2000 is quite reasonable for what you considered was 1-2 weeks work, although I was giving you a month. You are either stupid (which I don't think you are), just difficult for the sake of it (which I think you are), or grossly underestimate the amount of work required. Dave -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: GSOC 2012
On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 9:45 AM, Dima Pasechnik dimp...@gmail.com wrote: In gmane.comp.mathematics.sage.devel, you wrote: On Feb 15, 6:31 pm, kcrisman kcris...@gmail.com wrote: On Feb 15, 7:22 pm, rjf fate...@gmail.com wrote: IMHO, a native port of Sage to Windows could not be done in a week or two. Perhaps a Cygwin port could, but I'm talking of a native port, where the code runs directly on Windows, without any Linux virtual machines, emulators or similar. I see no reason to reject MinGW, Cygwin, or other libraries as part of a Sage system on Windows. Then you haven't tried to actually do this, which of course we know. Unfortunately, even getting Maxima to work right on Cygwin with ECL ... maybe because running ECL is the wrong choice, dictated by a misguided policy about what software is politically acceptable. was nontrivial lately because of how Juanjo had to do forking (which he's since gotten around entirely) which does not work on Cygwin properly. (And I say this out of sheer experience trying to get it to work, not because I know anything about forking. Those who do are even more emphatic about it.) If you wish, I'll offer you a 20:1 bet.. If you, or someone you know, can get a full port of Sage done inside a month, I'll pay you $2000. I think that a month (160 hours X expert rate of, say, $500/hour) would do it. That is far more than $2,000. By far the quickest way to make Sage run on Windows is to get an expert to fix Cygwin's fork implementation. The problem is that while such persons exist, they all have signed an NDA, which would prevent them to do what's needed. Why do you think it's *possible* to have a good fork implementation in Cygwin? I had the impression that it is impossible. Also, there is much, much more wrong with Cygwin than just fork... Anything esle is a huge waste of man-hours. (of course this makes your 500$/h experts in wheel reinvention laughing all the way to the bank...) Frankly, that's disturbing, isn't it? Dima -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: GSOC 2012
On 02/16/12 01:44 AM, Dima Pasechnik wrote: In gmane.comp.mathematics.sage.devel, you wrote: On 02/15/12 01:40 AM, Volker Braun wrote: While it would be an funny retro-computing exercise, No, it would be a painful one. Even if you could install it, most modern software would not run on it. I don't think Windows NT 3.51 can run on Power7. It is binary compatible under certain conditions but i'd be surprised if a whole OS can escape all caveats. Perhaps. I'll leave you to try if you think it would be funny! I actually know one or two Windows-based HPC clusters in academic research. In the cases I know, they are the result of donations from Microsoft... Ansys don't tend to support a lot of operating systems. * On Linux they only support Redhat 4 and 5, and SUSE 10 and 11. * On Windows they only support XP, 7 and Windows HPC Server 2008 R2. So Windows Vista, and all the free Linux distributions like Ubuntu are not supported. Neither is OS X. Centos is essentially a free clone of Redhat distro's. Most everything that runs on Redhat would run on Centos without any problem. Dima Yes, that's what I was using in fact [drkirkby@blackcap ~]$ cat /etc/redhat-release Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS release 4 (Nahant Update 7) #CentOS release 4.7 (Final) I had to edit /etc/redhat-release to fool the software to thinking it was on a Redhat 4.7 system, when in fact it was CentOS 4.7. Oracle Linux is also I believe a clone of Redhat - perhaps not such a close clone as CentOS. I assume Oracle add something to it. 4 The point I was making is that if a company like Ansys decide to support Windows HPC Server 2008 R2, whilst only supporting a very limited number of OSs, they must believe that there is a business case for using an HPC application on Windows. Volker Braun said: I seems HFSS is really a desktop program that scales up to reach the bottom of what can be considered HPC I can't argue with his comments, as there's no formal definition of HPC, but I do disagree that there is zero penetration of HPC to Windows, which was his earlier comment. -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: GSOC 2012
On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 07:05, Volker Braun vbraun.n...@gmail.com wrote: The most common home computer is a game console. in 2012, i think it's the posix-world of smartphones and tablets, namely android and iOS. porting to or supporting a growing ecosystem (i.e. tablets) has more long term benefits than petting a dying dinosaur. h -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: GSOC 2012
On 14 February 2012 06:05, Volker Braun vbraun.n...@gmail.com wrote: The most common home computer is a game console. While techincally an XBox is a windows PC, very few normal Windows programs run on it. Some of my code has been run on a Sony Playstation 3, as well as a Cray supercomputer. http://atlc.sourceforge.net/ Also, Windows has zero market share in HPC. I disagree with that statement. As you know, I'm not fan of Windoze, but I don't accept that Windoze has no market share in HPC. There are many HPC applications which support primarily Windows. HFSS http://www.ansoft.com/products/hf/hfss/ is one such example. I was recently speaking to one of their engineers, who said some customers had simultions taking weeks, so they would get Ansys (the vendor) to simulate them on more powerful hardware, reducing the time from weeks to days. HFSS supports both multi-processors on the one machine, as well as shared processors across a network and shared memory across a network. Speaking to one of the salemen, he said Windows was the most common platform for HFSS. One of the packages that can be used with HFSS (the free Antenna design kit), is only available on Windows, though the antenna design kit is certainly not particuly CPU intensive and I doubt a design would take more than 30 minutes. Personally I'd consider simulation software which takes days/weeks to simulate complex engineering problems to fall under the gategory of HPC, though I don't think there's any formal definition of HPC, so I could not really argue with you if you said such software was not. All similar packages to HFSS (EMPro, XCcell, CST etc) support Windows and Linux. Sometimes Solaris is supported, sometimes OS X too. Dave -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: GSOC 2012
On 13 February 2012 17:22, rjf fate...@gmail.com wrote: On Feb 13, 12:51 am, Dr. David Kirkby david.kir...@onetel.net wrote: On 02/12/12 03:06 PM, rjf wrote: Microsoft and Google/Motorola are suing each other. Do you get money from Microsoft? Just a thought. You could propose to Google to port Sage to run on Windows/ natively, not. I believe a complete native port would be an almost impossibility. I don't think many developers are keen on Windoze, so it would be less easy to attract developers unless they were paid to do it. So ask for money to pay them not to do it, from Google. Frankly, I think a person competent in Windows technology could do this. In my own experience, Maxima runs fine under windows. Also in my experience, GMP and MPFR run under Windows, but maybe require additional non-free software development environments. This is not a problem if you drop the requirement that every recipient of Sage must be able to COMPILE stuff locally. Just have one person compile the stuff once and distribute dll files. I suppose it is possible that some Sage propeller-heads have written python or C code that cannot be compiled under windows, but it seems to me more likely that it is a question of finding a skilled person, and not so much of problematical code. A skilled person who cares to look at code base, and has a spare week or two. I've written a fair amount of software over the years - some Windows applications with a GUI, but most are Unix applications. I think I know a thing or two about porting software. IMHO, a native port of Sage to Windows could not be done in a week or two. Perhaps a Cygwin port could, but I'm talking of a native port, where the code runs directly on Windows, without any Linux virtual machines, emulators or similar. If you wish, I'll offer you a 20:1 bet.. If you, or someone you know, can get a full port of Sage done inside a month, I'll pay you $2000. On the other hand, it you can't provide a full port, you pay me $100. William can be the judge of whether the resulting code is a complete native port of Sage to Windows. Let me know if you want that bet. PS. It's interesting that Wolfram Research appear to use ATLAS in Mathematica - at least on Solaris. I base this on the fact there is a file 'libatlas.so', or some similar name in the Mathematica distribution. I personally think ATLAS would be one of the more difficult programs to port to Windows. I've often pondered if Wolfram Research have ported ATLAS to Windows, or if they use a different library on Windows. The latter would seem odd (why maintain two lots of code base?), so it suggests to me they have probably ported ATLAS to Windows. But that would seem very hard - to do it properly anyway. Dave -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: GSOC 2012
On Tuesday, February 14, 2012 3:16:04 AM UTC-8, Dr. David Kirkby wrote: is one such example. I was recently speaking to one of their engineers, who said some customers had simultions taking weeks, so they would get Ansys (the vendor) to simulate them on more powerful hardware, reducing the time from weeks to days. If its true that Anysys has a reasonably-sized cluster (say, 100+ nodes) that they rent out to customers then I'm pretty sure it doesn't run on Windows, especially if their own code is cross-platform. This is what I meant. The fact that their code also runs on desktops doesn't make the desktop a HPC platform. -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: GSOC 2012
On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 15:01:59 Volker Braun wrote: On Tuesday, February 14, 2012 3:16:04 AM UTC-8, Dr. David Kirkby wrote: is one such example. I was recently speaking to one of their engineers, who said some customers had simultions taking weeks, so they would get Ansys (the vendor) to simulate them on more powerful hardware, reducing the time from weeks to days. If its true that Anysys has a reasonably-sized cluster (say, 100+ nodes) that they rent out to customers then I'm pretty sure it doesn't run on Windows, especially if their own code is cross-platform. This is what I meant. The fact that their code also runs on desktops doesn't make the desktop a HPC platform. I am not sure about ansys. We had licenses and binaries for IBM power on AIX. They are discontinuing it So we are looking for alternatives to run on power7 systems. Not sure if they have support for linux x86(_64) or if that will disapear too. -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: GSOC 2012
IBM discontinuing AIX? Is this some kind of joke? IBM is more than happy to sell Power7 systems with AIX. But if you have the hardware lying around and no money to buy a recent AIX version then there are also plenty of linux options. The only thing that is for sure is that you can't run Windows on them ;-) -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: GSOC 2012
On 02/14/12 11:39 PM, Volker Braun wrote: IBM discontinuing AIX? Is this some kind of joke? IBM is more than happy to sell Power7 systems with AIX. But if you have the hardware lying around and no money to buy a recent AIX version then there are also plenty of linux options. The only thing that is for sure is that you can't run Windows on them ;-) Windows NT 3.51 runs on PowerPC. Not sure if that means it runs on Power 7 systems. Dave -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: GSOC 2012
On 02/14/12 11:01 PM, Volker Braun wrote: On Tuesday, February 14, 2012 3:16:04 AM UTC-8, Dr. David Kirkby wrote: is one such example. I was recently speaking to one of their engineers, who said some customers had simultions taking weeks, so they would get Ansys (the vendor) to simulate them on more powerful hardware, reducing the time from weeks to days. If its true that Anysys has a reasonably-sized cluster (say, 100+ nodes) that they rent out to customers then I'm pretty sure it doesn't run on Windows, especially if their own code is cross-platform. This is what I meant. The fact that their code also runs on desktops doesn't make the desktop a HPC platform. http://www.ansys.com/ansysonwindows/ansys-performance-on-windows.pdf says things like: Scale up to a cluster running Windows HPC Server 2008, and you'll be able to consider more detailed and accurate simulations or study a range of design ideas or operating conditions. Either way, you can leverage your existing Windows expertise and IT infrastructure, and maximize the return on your investment in simulation. The University of South Florida obviously has HFSS http://rc.usf.edu/trac/doc/wiki/HFSS and states ***Batch Execution on Windows HPC*** Using Windows HPC Server 2008 R2, we can easily dispatch jobs that require more resources than a desktop system can provide. Configuring your desktop installation to work with the Windows HPC scheduler is a simple process. I would have thought that is high performance computing on Windows. I'm going on an HFSS course at the end of this month. I'll ask the engineer who told me they rent out computer resources what OS they use for this. Dave -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: GSOC 2012
On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 15:39:20 Volker Braun wrote: IBM discontinuing AIX? Is this some kind of joke? IBM is more than happy to sell Power7 systems with AIX. But if you have the hardware lying around and no money to buy a recent AIX version then there are also plenty of linux options. The only thing that is for sure is that you can't run Windows on them ;-) Thanks for completely misleading my sentence for a few laugh. In case it wasn't I meant ansys is discontinuing their support for power. Now if IBM were to ditch AIX I would be a happy boy. Didn't know Windows NT ran on powerPC, knew they had a version for alpha (in x86 emulation). Wether it would run on power7 would depend on what level they supported, if it ran on power4 it may be possible but I wouldn't want to try to boot it. Francois -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: GSOC 2012
While it would be an funny retro-computing exercise, I don't think Windows NT 3.51 can run on Power7. It is binary compatible under certain conditions but i'd be surprised if a whole OS can escape all caveats. I actually know one or two Windows-based HPC clusters in academic research. In the cases I know, they are the result of donations from Microsoft... -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: GSOC 2012
On 02/15/12 01:40 AM, Volker Braun wrote: While it would be an funny retro-computing exercise, No, it would be a painful one. Even if you could install it, most modern software would not run on it. I don't think Windows NT 3.51 can run on Power7. It is binary compatible under certain conditions but i'd be surprised if a whole OS can escape all caveats. Perhaps. I'll leave you to try if you think it would be funny! I actually know one or two Windows-based HPC clusters in academic research. In the cases I know, they are the result of donations from Microsoft... Ansys don't tend to support a lot of operating systems. * On Linux they only support Redhat 4 and 5, and SUSE 10 and 11. * On Windows they only support XP, 7 and Windows HPC Server 2008 R2. So Windows Vista, and all the free Linux distributions like Ubuntu are not supported. Neither is OS X. http://www.ansys.com/Support/Platform+Support/Ansoft+Products+14.0 The fact they do support Windows HPC Server 2008 R2 makes me think they have serious customers paying serious amounts of money to use it. HFSS is *very* expensive. A single HFSS license for one machine is around $100 k using just one solver. So I very much doubt one could get a commercial HFSS license for an HPC cluster for under $500 k. Academic licenses are much cheaper, so I doubt Ansys would support Windows HPC Server 2008 R2 just because a few universities have HPC clusters donated by Microsoft. I believe they must have serious commercial customers using HPC on Windows. But I might be wrong of course. Dave -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: GSOC 2012
On Tuesday, February 14, 2012 10:13:26 PM UTC-8, Dr. David Kirkby wrote: So Windows Vista, and all the free Linux distributions like Ubuntu are not supported. Neither is OS X. If you have a cluster you obviously don't put Ubuntu on the nodes (there are special cluster distributions like ROCK), so its completely understandable that they don't actively support it. That doesn't mean that it doesn't run on Ubuntu, they just don't actively test it. I seems HFSS is really a desktop program that scales up to reach the bottom of what can be considered HPC. They support Windows because thats whats preinstalled on most desktops, not because its a good or popular clustering solution. Currently, one (1) of the top 500 supercomputers runs Windows http://i.top500.org/stats. -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: GSOC 2012
On 02/12/12 03:06 PM, rjf wrote: Microsoft and Google/Motorola are suing each other. Do you get money from Microsoft? Just a thought. You could propose to Google to port Sage to run on Windows/ natively, not. I believe a complete native port would be an almost impossibility. I don't think many developers are keen on Windoze, so it would be less easy to attract developers unless they were paid to do it. I must admit, I would have thought a Cygwin port easier than it seems to be. I recall at one time wondering whether the Solaris or Cygwin port would be completed first, but Solaris got there several years ago, and the Cgywin port seems less likely to be completed now than it did a few years ago. Microsoft were at some time funding a Windoze port of Sage, but I believe the amount of funding they gave was far too small to make the slightest dent in the problem. Dave -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: GSOC 2012
On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 13:34, rjf fate...@gmail.com wrote: On Feb 13, 6:10 pm, Dima Pasechnik dimp...@gmail.com wrote: (RJF) This is not a problem if you drop the requirement that every recipient of Sage must be able to COMPILE stuff locally. Just have one person compile the stuff once and distribute dll files. this means distributing a seriously crippled system. How so? Does that mean that only those people who compile Sage themselves have a non-crippled system? Being able to write and build your own Cython code is an important part of normal non-trivial usage of Sage. This requires a functioning C compiler. -Keshav Join us in #sagemath on irc.freenode.net ! -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: GSOC 2012
On 02/12/2012 01:33 AM, John H Palmieri wrote: On Saturday, February 11, 2012 8:39:32 PM UTC-8, Michael Orlitzky wrote: I've started this: http://wiki.sagemath.org/PiecewiseSymbolicSEP http://wiki.sagemath.org/PiecewiseSymbolicSEP It's basically a brain dump at this point, but I can go back and clean up specific ideas now with less overhead. I've also added a link and a few paragraphs to the GSoC proposal. Would it also be possible and worthwhile to implement periodic functions at the same time? That is, you could define a function on some interval [a,b] (or [a,b) or ...) and declare it to be periodic with period b-a, for instance. Assuming we get piecewise right, it *sounds* easy to do. I've added it to the SEP as a feature that could be built on top of piecewise. One goal would be to define the piecewise functions based on predicates, so we could have e.g. a periodic(f, interval, period) constructor that converts your interval/period to a predicate and returns the corresponding piecewise function. I can see it getting hairy if we try to generalize periodic functions, too, but period/interval are easy enough to work with. -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: GSOC 2012
I've started this: http://wiki.sagemath.org/PiecewiseSymbolicSEP It's basically a brain dump at this point, but I can go back and clean up specific ideas now with less overhead. I've also added a link and a few paragraphs to the GSoC proposal. -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: GSOC 2012
On Saturday, February 11, 2012 8:39:32 PM UTC-8, Michael Orlitzky wrote: I've started this: http://wiki.sagemath.org/PiecewiseSymbolicSEP It's basically a brain dump at this point, but I can go back and clean up specific ideas now with less overhead. I've also added a link and a few paragraphs to the GSoC proposal. Would it also be possible and worthwhile to implement periodic functions at the same time? That is, you could define a function on some interval [a,b] (or [a,b) or ...) and declare it to be periodic with period b-a, for instance. -- John -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: GSOC 2012
On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 10:33 PM, John H Palmieri
jhpalmier...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, February 11, 2012 8:39:32 PM UTC-8, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
I've started this:
http://wiki.sagemath.org/PiecewiseSymbolicSEP
It's basically a brain dump at this point, but I can go back and clean
up specific ideas now with less overhead.
I've also added a link and a few paragraphs to the GSoC proposal.
Would it also be possible and worthwhile to implement periodic functions at
the same time? That is, you could define a function on some interval [a,b]
(or [a,b) or ...) and declare it to be periodic with period b-a, for
instance.
I think such functions should be implemented based on predicates
rather than intervals. Then they could support this as well as being
multi-variate, etc. Unfortunately the mod operator doesn't seem to
work with symbolics (could be adde to the SEP)
sage: x % 1
...
TypeError: unable to convert x (=x) to an integer
And we also have the ugly
sage: 0 x 5
0 x
and
sage: var('y,x')
(y, x)
sage: (0 x) (0 y)
...
TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for :
'sage.symbolic.expression.Expression' and
'sage.symbolic.expression.Expression'
Part of this SEP could be to make both of these work (if possible, the
first might be impossible due to shortcutting and bool(expr) returning
False by default). Note that if the predicates are evaluated in a
cascading manner, this wouldn't be needed as often.
Another complication is detecting boundaries (e.g. for
differentiability tests) for arbitrary predicates, but this could be
done for inequalities.
- Robert
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: GSOC 2012
On 02/07/2012 11:20 PM, kcrisman wrote: I hesitate to say I would be a good mentor, but there are a lot of things in symbolics and graphics that would be appropriate for this that I'd like to try with some of my students. Especially piecewise functions and such. Continuing nontrivial Geogebra integration could be another very appropriate one. If you're serious about fixing piecewise, * I'll be a student until at least May (this is fine by the GSOC rules). * I'll have the summer off. * I've been working on splines for the past few years, and am familiar with all of the reasons why piecewise needs fixing. -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: GSOC 2012
I thought I would not that, to whomever is going to write the application, be sure to list me down as a Google supporter, since I think it would be great to have a Sage GSoC project. There should be a section along the lines of vouchers from Google and other large organizations. If I had a bit more experience with Sage development, I would have been happy to mentor someone as well. :) --Christopher On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 08:12, Michael Orlitzky mich...@orlitzky.com wrote: On 02/07/2012 11:20 PM, kcrisman wrote: I hesitate to say I would be a good mentor, but there are a lot of things in symbolics and graphics that would be appropriate for this that I'd like to try with some of my students. Especially piecewise functions and such. Continuing nontrivial Geogebra integration could be another very appropriate one. If you're serious about fixing piecewise, * I'll be a student until at least May (this is fine by the GSOC rules). * I'll have the summer off. * I've been working on splines for the past few years, and am familiar with all of the reasons why piecewise needs fixing. -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscribe@** googlegroups.com sage-devel%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** group/sage-devel http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: GSOC 2012
On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Christopher Swenson ch...@caswenson.com wrote: I thought I would not that, to whomever is going to write the application, be sure to list me down as a Google supporter, since I think it would be great to have a Sage GSoC project. There should be a section along the lines of vouchers from Google and other large organizations. In case it isn't obvious, Chris works at Google. William If I had a bit more experience with Sage development, I would have been happy to mentor someone as well. :) --Christopher On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 08:12, Michael Orlitzky mich...@orlitzky.com wrote: On 02/07/2012 11:20 PM, kcrisman wrote: I hesitate to say I would be a good mentor, but there are a lot of things in symbolics and graphics that would be appropriate for this that I'd like to try with some of my students. Especially piecewise functions and such. Continuing nontrivial Geogebra integration could be another very appropriate one. If you're serious about fixing piecewise, * I'll be a student until at least May (this is fine by the GSOC rules). * I'll have the summer off. * I've been working on splines for the past few years, and am familiar with all of the reasons why piecewise needs fixing. -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: GSOC 2012
On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 20:43, Christopher Swenson ch...@caswenson.com wrote: There should be a section along the lines of vouchers from Google and other large organizations. yes, there is in deed such a section. thanks for your support :) H -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: GSOC 2012
On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 7:55 PM, Jason Grout jason-s...@creativetrax.com wrote: On 2/7/12 9:48 PM, William Stein wrote: Hi, Does anybody want to help put together a GSoC application for Sage for 2012? http://code.google.com/soc/ The application deadline is March 9. So far, I think we've applied 5 times to have Sage as a mentoring organizing, and been denied every time. I think there is no feedback about why we are denied (maybe they think we already have too much NSF funding?). Also, other similar projects such as R, Sympy, PlanetMath, etc., have often been accepted as mentoring organizations. However, I don't think being denied every year is a reason to stop trying, because (1) our project is better than many of the projects Google chooses (they are just making a mistake by not choosing us), and (2) even if they don't choose us, we can propose our project ideas to other mentoring organizations. Regarding (2) though, it can be frustrating -- e.g., I felt we had an excellent proposal for a mentoring organization one of the years Sage was denied, and the organization decided against funding it because the developers didn't know us personally; their no was not based on weaknesses of the project itself, which I found frustrating. So it's best if we are a mentoring organization. So are you saying we shouldn't, for example, submit under the Python Software Foundation umbrella? If we come up with good projects that would make sense for PSF *and* are denied as a mentoring organization, then we should summit there. In my remark above, the mentoring org was not PSF. I'd be willing to mentor, for example, a notebook project, since that's what I'll be working on most of the summer. I'll already have several students hopefully working with me on the notebook, or graphics (webgl, here we come :), etc. Excellent. I am also willing to mentor a project on the notebook. Or something on implementing mathematical algorithms. Jason -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: GSOC 2012
On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 8:11 PM, Volker Braun vbraun.n...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe we can tie the Android app into the notebook work? I could help mentor a student working on Android stuff, maybe that would help our GSOC application. That's an *extremely* good idea! Maybe we should have The Sage Notebook as the mentoring organization instead of Sage, given that every project idea so far has involved it? William -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
