Re: RockyEL list archives appear to be behind a paywall

[Yasha Karant]

Beef:  Slang.   a complaint.
an argument or dispute.

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.dictionary.com_browse_beef=DwIDaQ=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A=udqqjMTgzCb4e7B4bSZsQSucKrJdBsUWfh-ZCVVf41k=Mx2aCWnuP6ZizsericAqpby4d9Jgaj5RSZycrHVivqo= 


as I could not find a definition of "beef" in Merriam-Webster on-line.

The only reason that I am posting a "definition" of the term you used is 
so that I can address your accusation.


I do not have a complaint, argument, or dispute with Rocky EL or any 
other distro, enthusiast, "enterprise", or supported for fee.  The 
issues are suitability, currency, hardening, and support mechanisms.  I 
can elaborate on any of these if there is interest.  It is difficult, 
but not impossible, to have a distro that does not have computer science 
and engineering professionals (not in the sense of necessarily using 
this as in the sense of a significant source of gainful employment, nor 
in the sense of formal academic diplomata -- Heaviside had no such 
diplomata, but in the sense of knowledge, understanding, and skills, of 
which Heaviside had sufficient in all three of these areas) doing the 
implementation that is suitable for "hardened" production use, including 
converting a distribution source into a functioning alternately badged 
but otherwise identical "executable" distribution.


My observation about the paywall was simply that public archived 
discussions are needed to trace back both proper attribution (even if 
not for-fee property) as well as to verify the current state of any 
particular implementation.  (I am not going debate how one terms a 
practice -- if access requires a fee or the equivalent -- make a 
contribution of any sort-- such fee-controlled access has the same 
effect as a paywall -- do not supply the fee, no access.)


A discussion of the actual or to-be-implemented suitability, currency, 
hardening, and support mechanisms of any distro (or other engineering 
artifact for that matter) is not a complaint, but simply proper 
engineering.  Actual binary executables are constructed through 
engineering and technology.


On 12/30/20 8:08 AM, Jon Pruente wrote:
On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 6:51 PM Yasha Karant > wrote:



Thus, unlike either the Ubuntu (including LTS) Ask Ubuntu or this SL
list that are available without any fee with full archive access, it
appears that to get to the RockyEL "list" much older than one calendar
week, one must subscribe for a fee.  Such a system makes archival
information not generally available.  If other RockyEL (e.g., #rocky )
readers do not see the paywall message and are not paying a fee (or
have
an institutional "subscription"), please comment as to how to get the
"archives".


It's not a paywall for users. It's a limit of using a free Slack 
instance vs paid. The Rocky Linux team is already in the process of 
moving to a longer term system. The slack was never meant to be 
permanent, as it was initially used for gmk's HPC company. It was the 
easiest and most expedient place to send people at the sudden change 
from Red Hat. You seem to have quite a beef against Rocky in principle, 
and choose to ignore that the project is literally brand new and was 
started without any advance plans.

Re: RockyEL list archives appear to be behind a paywall

[Jon Pruente]

On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 6:51 PM Yasha Karant  wrote:

>
> Thus, unlike either the Ubuntu (including LTS) Ask Ubuntu or this SL
> list that are available without any fee with full archive access, it
> appears that to get to the RockyEL "list" much older than one calendar
> week, one must subscribe for a fee.  Such a system makes archival
> information not generally available.  If other RockyEL (e.g., #rocky )
> readers do not see the paywall message and are not paying a fee (or have
> an institutional "subscription"), please comment as to how to get the
> "archives".
>

It's not a paywall for users. It's a limit of using a free Slack instance
vs paid. The Rocky Linux team is already in the process of moving to a
longer term system. The slack was never meant to be permanent, as it was
initially used for gmk's HPC company. It was the easiest and most expedient
place to send people at the sudden change from Red Hat. You seem to have
quite a beef against Rocky in principle, and choose to ignore that the
project is literally brand new and was started without any advance plans.

Re: RockyEL list archives appear to be behind a paywall

[Dave Dykstra]

Hi Yasha,

That's a general Slack policy.  With the amount of traffic generated on
the rocky slack channels, messages on the unpaid hpcng Slack are limited
to about 4 days.  This is why in the last community update that I posted
here it was announced that rocky will be switching to Mattermost. 
https://forums.rockylinux.org/t/community-update-december-2020/1157
It just hasn't happened yet, mostly because of the holidays.

Dave

On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 04:50:57PM -0800, Yasha Karant wrote:
> Unlock messages prior to December 20th in The Next Generation of High
> Performance Computing Community
> To view and search all the messages in your workspace's history, rather
> than just the 10,000 most recent, upgrade to one of our paid plans.
> 
> The above is the message upon reading the current RockyEL "list"
> 
> Start Slack excerpt
> 
> #rocky
> 
> https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/#comment-183642 Some
> other channels are #rockylinux and #rockylinux-devel on Freenode
> 
> End excerpt.
> 
> Thus, unlike either the Ubuntu (including LTS) Ask Ubuntu or this SL list
> that are available without any fee with full archive access, it appears that
> to get to the RockyEL "list" much older than one calendar week, one must
> subscribe for a fee.  Such a system makes archival information not generally
> available.  If other RockyEL (e.g., #rocky ) readers do not see the paywall
> message and are not paying a fee (or have an institutional "subscription"),
> please comment as to how to get the "archives".
>