[scifinoir2] Re: Caprica/BSG -- Where the Brothers At?
I remember having this conversation with a black, female native New Yorker just before the turn of the millennium. We got into a heated argument regarding whether Friends or Mad About You was a more accurate depictions of NY City. I championed MAY because the Buchmans, as portrayed by Paul Reiser and Helen Hunt, actually seemed to be living in a city where minorities and (gasp!) poor people existed - and they were suitably edgy about it. Further, there appeared to be black people in the NYC of MAY and not just as single shot girlfriends for David Schwimmer's Dr. Ross (and, what was up with that? Ross gets to hit both Aisha Tyler and Gabrielle Union? I mean, seriously? No, I mean, fo real, doh!) ~(no)rave! --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... wrote: I think Caucasian writers never think of people of color unless they socialize with them. How else do we end up with tv shows like Seinfeld and Friends? NYC is extremely diverse and yet you have two examples of a show where even the extras are 98% white. On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Martin Baxter truthseeker...@...wrote: Adrianne, I write Afrocentric from my protagonists' standpoint, but my supporting characters are of all races, drawing from my own past. In defense of Caucasian writers, they may not be able to bridge that divide for the same reason. There simply may be no one of color in their circle for them to draw on example-wise, even in this exalted day and age. -- Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign up now. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/ -- Celebrating 10 years of bringing diversity to perversity! Mahogany at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahogany_pleasures_of_darkness/
[scifinoir2] Re: Caprica/BSG -- Where the Brothers At?
Dr. Ross Geller from Friends? ~(no)rave! --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Keith Johnson keithbjohn...@... wrote: Yeah, I hear you, but I'm focused on brothers today. Besides, with no black *men* around, who do the Sisters hook up with? - Original Message - From: Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2010 4:46:05 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Caprica/BSG -- Where the Brothers At? There probably should have been a major black male, but the series was obviously skewed more towards the power of women. There were several women of color in major roles. On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 10:01 AM, Keith Johnson keithbjohn...@... wrote: Ah, but that's my point: none of them had pivotal roles or were memorable. You had to refresh my memory that one of the 12 was black, and I do remember that one that escaped too. But again, no black men have had major roles in either series. - Original Message - From: Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2010 6:29:50 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Caprica/BSG -- Where the Brothers At? One of the 12 was black. He was an important character in the first 2 seasons, and the Plan. There was also a minor character that had been captured and escaped, but that didn't go anywhere. There were also several that were pilots on the transports. Also there were a couple on the other battlestar. On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 1:53 AM, Keith Johnson keithbjohn...@... wrote: Something odd strikes me about the BSG/Caprica worlds: no black men in significant positions. I missed the last couple years of BSG, but I remember noting the curious lack of black men in anything but background roles. I think there was one reporter on that ship were political events were held, but he wasn't even the main reporter. I see them in the background on the ship, but no high level officers, now that Boomer and Tigh from the original series were replaced by an Asian lady and a white man, respectively. Hell: I don't even remember any of the fighter pilots being black. Where I *did* see black man on BSG? On the ep dealing with the prison ship, the place was lousy with black men: big, black, bald black men. I also note a lot of brothers functioning as scowling muscle. When Admiral Cain (michelle Forbes) came to Galactica, her high level staff was all white men. But the bodyguards? All big, very black, very bald, scowling black men. Left a bad taste in my mouth, and frankly one reason i lost some interest in the show. Did it get better? Now on Caprica I'm seeing the same thing. Sure, I see black men in the background: in the street traffic, maybe a reporter in the background shouting questions. Back again, I see no high level scientists, politicians, police, or military men who are black. The one black I can remember in anything approaching a recurring role? The big, black, bald, scowling brother who functions as the bodyguard/drive for the Greystones. What's the deal? This reminds me of the old days when we were in the background but little else. I'd ask if it's because of the shooting locale, but if they can find brothers to walk up and down the street, surely they could put some in important roles. It's cool and all they have a Latino in a role that may or may not be Latino, but my brothers are all but absent... -- Celebrating 10 years of bringing diversity to perversity! Mahogany at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahogany_pleasures_of_darkness/ -- Celebrating 10 years of bringing diversity to perversity! Mahogany at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahogany_pleasures_of_darkness/
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Caprica/BSG -- Where the Brothers At?
I never watched the show because even in the coffee shop on the previews there were never any black people. Black people don't buy coffee? The worst example of this was the movie Ghost. Totally segregated. All of the black people lived in Harlem, and the white people were everywhere else including Wall Street and the subway. On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 7:03 AM, Kelwyn ravena...@yahoo.com wrote: I remember having this conversation with a black, female native New Yorker just before the turn of the millennium. We got into a heated argument regarding whether Friends or Mad About You was a more accurate depictions of NY City. I championed MAY because the Buchmans, as portrayed by Paul Reiser and Helen Hunt, actually seemed to be living in a city where minorities and (gasp!) poor people existed - and they were suitably edgy about it. Further, there appeared to be black people in the NYC of MAY and not just as single shot girlfriends for David Schwimmer's Dr. Ross (and, what was up with that? Ross gets to hit both Aisha Tyler and Gabrielle Union? I mean, seriously? No, I mean, fo real, doh!) ~(no)rave! --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... wrote: I think Caucasian writers never think of people of color unless they socialize with them. How else do we end up with tv shows like Seinfeld and Friends? NYC is extremely diverse and yet you have two examples of a show where even the extras are 98% white. On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Martin Baxter truthseeker...@...wrote: Adrianne, I write Afrocentric from my protagonists' standpoint, but my supporting characters are of all races, drawing from my own past. In defense of Caucasian writers, they may not be able to bridge that divide for the same reason. There simply may be no one of color in their circle for them to draw on example-wise, even in this exalted day and age. -- Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign up now. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/ -- Celebrating 10 years of bringing diversity to perversity! Mahogany at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahogany_pleasures_of_darkness/ Post your SciFiNoir Profile at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scifinoir2/app/peoplemap2/entry/add?fmvn=mapYahoo! Groups Links -- Celebrating 10 years of bringing diversity to perversity! Mahogany at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahogany_pleasures_of_darkness/
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Caprica/BSG -- Where the Brothers At?
i never watched Friends, but remember being on a plane somewhere and it was shown. When I saw the nerdy Ross and the goofy Joey fighting over Aisha Tyler, I thought, Talk about white male fantasies! That show never reflected any reality of mine or any aspects of the NYC I've visited several times - Original Message - From: Kelwyn ravena...@yahoo.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 8, 2010 10:03:24 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Caprica/BSG -- Where the Brothers At? I remember having this conversation with a black, female native New Yorker just before the turn of the millennium. We got into a heated argument regarding whether Friends or Mad About You was a more accurate depictions of NY City. I championed MAY because the Buchmans, as portrayed by Paul Reiser and Helen Hunt, actually seemed to be living in a city where minorities and (gasp!) poor people existed - and they were suitably edgy about it. Further, there appeared to be black people in the NYC of MAY and not just as single shot girlfriends for David Schwimmer's Dr. Ross (and, what was up with that? Ross gets to hit both Aisha Tyler and Gabrielle Union? I mean, seriously? No, I mean, fo real, doh!) ~(no)rave! --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com , Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... wrote: I think Caucasian writers never think of people of color unless they socialize with them. How else do we end up with tv shows like Seinfeld and Friends? NYC is extremely diverse and yet you have two examples of a show where even the extras are 98% white. On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Martin Baxter truthseeker...@...wrote: Adrianne, I write Afrocentric from my protagonists' standpoint, but my supporting characters are of all races, drawing from my own past. In defense of Caucasian writers, they may not be able to bridge that divide for the same reason. There simply may be no one of color in their circle for them to draw on example-wise, even in this exalted day and age. -- Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign up now. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/ -- Celebrating 10 years of bringing diversity to perversity! Mahogany at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahogany_pleasures_of_darkness/
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Caprica/BSG -- Where the Brothers At?
yeah, what a fantasy that was... - Original Message - From: Kelwyn ravena...@yahoo.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 8, 2010 10:07:03 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Caprica/BSG -- Where the Brothers At? Dr. Ross Geller from Friends? ~(no)rave! --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com , Keith Johnson keithbjohn...@... wrote: Yeah, I hear you, but I'm focused on brothers today. Besides, with no black *men* around, who do the Sisters hook up with? - Original Message - From: Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2010 4:46:05 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Caprica/BSG -- Where the Brothers At? There probably should have been a major black male, but the series was obviously skewed more towards the power of women. There were several women of color in major roles. On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 10:01 AM, Keith Johnson keithbjohn...@... wrote: Ah, but that's my point: none of them had pivotal roles or were memorable. You had to refresh my memory that one of the 12 was black, and I do remember that one that escaped too. But again, no black men have had major roles in either series. - Original Message - From: Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2010 6:29:50 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Caprica/BSG -- Where the Brothers At? One of the 12 was black. He was an important character in the first 2 seasons, and the Plan. There was also a minor character that had been captured and escaped, but that didn't go anywhere. There were also several that were pilots on the transports. Also there were a couple on the other battlestar. On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 1:53 AM, Keith Johnson keithbjohn...@... wrote: Something odd strikes me about the BSG/Caprica worlds: no black men in significant positions. I missed the last couple years of BSG, but I remember noting the curious lack of black men in anything but background roles. I think there was one reporter on that ship were political events were held, but he wasn't even the main reporter. I see them in the background on the ship, but no high level officers, now that Boomer and Tigh from the original series were replaced by an Asian lady and a white man, respectively. Hell: I don't even remember any of the fighter pilots being black. Where I *did* see black man on BSG? On the ep dealing with the prison ship, the place was lousy with black men: big, black, bald black men. I also note a lot of brothers functioning as scowling muscle. When Admiral Cain (michelle Forbes) came to Galactica, her high level staff was all white men. But the bodyguards? All big, very black, very bald, scowling black men. Left a bad taste in my mouth, and frankly one reason i lost some interest in the show. Did it get better? Now on Caprica I'm seeing the same thing. Sure, I see black men in the background: in the street traffic, maybe a reporter in the background shouting questions. Back again, I see no high level scientists, politicians, police, or military men who are black. The one black I can remember in anything approaching a recurring role? The big, black, bald, scowling brother who functions as the bodyguard/drive for the Greystones. What's the deal? This reminds me of the old days when we were in the background but little else. I'd ask if it's because of the shooting locale, but if they can find brothers to walk up and down the street, surely they could put some in important roles. It's cool and all they have a Latino in a role that may or may not be Latino, but my brothers are all but absent... -- Celebrating 10 years of bringing diversity to perversity! Mahogany at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahogany_pleasures_of_darkness/ -- Celebrating 10 years of bringing diversity to perversity! Mahogany at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahogany_pleasures_of_darkness/
[scifinoir2] Re: Caprica/BSG -- Where the Brothers At?
Sounds like TekWar. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... wrote: One thing that always bothers me is that even in fictional circumstances no one bothers to take chances. For example Jack n' the box recently made a commercial where Jack the owner of the chain was talking to the president. The president was white even though Obama has been in office for a year. This reminded me of a scifi series in the 90s where white people were in the minority and the government was mostly hispanic. AI don't remember much else about the show except I think it was made from a book that was written by Shatner. Anyone know which show I am thinking of? On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 10:47 PM, Keith Johnson keithbjohn...@...wrote: A lot of this is *having* to leave your comfort zone. There's a saying in Hollywood, Women and girls will see movies with men and boys, but men and boys won't see movies with women and girls. I have always expanded that to include the H'Wood sentiment, People of color will see films with white leads, but whites won't see films with black leads. At least, that's why H'Wood brands movies with two main black leads black films, and fears their success with white and European audiences. Whites have been able for centuries to live and work in a world where they haven't had to deal with people of color in meaningful ways. They gave us Captain Kirk and Superman and Batman and white Presidents, and we accepted it because we felt we had no choice until we gained more political, financial, and social power. Similarly, women have had much of their lives and representations dictated to them by men who've controlled their fates. White men haven't really had to deal with not being in charge of everything. I think a lot of this Tea Party crap is frankly a bunch of disgruntled people in the majority who hate a world where people of color, non-Christians, gays, etc., are demanding more of a voice. - Original Message - From: Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2010 8:50:33 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Caprica/BSG -- Where the Brothers At? I think that its not that they are afraid of getting heat from doing something wrong but it just never dawn on them to write anything other than what they already know. Basically, a white male writes about white males, a white woman writes about white women. There are exceptions (Tarantino, Law and Order) and variations (My big fat greek wedding for example.) but for the most part they are mirroring. On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 5:39 PM, Adrianne Brennan adrianne.bren...@... wrote: Actually I'd chalk it up to fear. Fear of doing something un-PC/racist/inaccurate in the process and get slammed for it. And it's really a shame. Unfortunately race is such a loaded issue people would rather avoid it than tackle it head on. As far as what I'm working on at present, here's a good example: I have a main char who is a vampire in NOLA. I have long considered the idea that she is of a mixed racial background and maybe even at one point hid that fact on purpose. It'd be a very interesting plot to tackle and would make her background that much more interesting. What I first have to do is research NOLA in the very early 20th century (which is when she would've been around) and get a better sense of how a woman of her background would've fared before and after being Turned in that time period--and take it from there. ~ Where love and magic meet ~ http://www.adriannebrennan.com Experience the magic of the Dark Moon series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#darkmoon Dare to take The Oath in this erotic fantasy series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath The future of psychic sex - Dawn of the Seraphs (m/m): http://www.adriannebrennan.com/dawnoftheseraphs.html On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 8:15 PM, Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... wrote: I think Caucasian writers never think of people of color unless they socialize with them. How else do we end up with tv shows like Seinfeld and Friends? NYC is extremely diverse and yet you have two examples of a show where even the extras are 98% white. On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Martin Baxter truthseeker...@... wrote: Adrianne, I write Afrocentric from my protagonists' standpoint, but my supporting characters are of all races, drawing from my own past. In defense of Caucasian writers, they may not be able to bridge that divide for the same reason. There simply may be no one of color in their circle for them to draw on example-wise, even in this exalted day and age. -- Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign up now. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/ -- Celebrating
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Caprica/BSG -- Where the Brothers At?
Yea, I think you're right. I don't remember seeing that show in reruns on the syfy channel. On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 11:44 AM, B Smith daikaij...@yahoo.com wrote: Sounds like TekWar. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... wrote: One thing that always bothers me is that even in fictional circumstances no one bothers to take chances. For example Jack n' the box recently made a commercial where Jack the owner of the chain was talking to the president. The president was white even though Obama has been in office for a year. This reminded me of a scifi series in the 90s where white people were in the minority and the government was mostly hispanic. AI don't remember much else about the show except I think it was made from a book that was written by Shatner. Anyone know which show I am thinking of? On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 10:47 PM, Keith Johnson keithbjohn...@...wrote: A lot of this is *having* to leave your comfort zone. There's a saying in Hollywood, Women and girls will see movies with men and boys, but men and boys won't see movies with women and girls. I have always expanded that to include the H'Wood sentiment, People of color will see films with white leads, but whites won't see films with black leads. At least, that's why H'Wood brands movies with two main black leads black films, and fears their success with white and European audiences. Whites have been able for centuries to live and work in a world where they haven't had to deal with people of color in meaningful ways. They gave us Captain Kirk and Superman and Batman and white Presidents, and we accepted it because we felt we had no choice until we gained more political, financial, and social power. Similarly, women have had much of their lives and representations dictated to them by men who've controlled their fates. White men haven't really had to deal with not being in charge of everything. I think a lot of this Tea Party crap is frankly a bunch of disgruntled people in the majority who hate a world where people of color, non-Christians, gays, etc., are demanding more of a voice. - Original Message - From: Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2010 8:50:33 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Caprica/BSG -- Where the Brothers At? I think that its not that they are afraid of getting heat from doing something wrong but it just never dawn on them to write anything other than what they already know. Basically, a white male writes about white males, a white woman writes about white women. There are exceptions (Tarantino, Law and Order) and variations (My big fat greek wedding for example.) but for the most part they are mirroring. On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 5:39 PM, Adrianne Brennan adrianne.bren...@... wrote: Actually I'd chalk it up to fear. Fear of doing something un-PC/racist/inaccurate in the process and get slammed for it. And it's really a shame. Unfortunately race is such a loaded issue people would rather avoid it than tackle it head on. As far as what I'm working on at present, here's a good example: I have a main char who is a vampire in NOLA. I have long considered the idea that she is of a mixed racial background and maybe even at one point hid that fact on purpose. It'd be a very interesting plot to tackle and would make her background that much more interesting. What I first have to do is research NOLA in the very early 20th century (which is when she would've been around) and get a better sense of how a woman of her background would've fared before and after being Turned in that time period--and take it from there. ~ Where love and magic meet ~ http://www.adriannebrennan.com Experience the magic of the Dark Moon series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#darkmoon Dare to take The Oath in this erotic fantasy series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath The future of psychic sex - Dawn of the Seraphs (m/m): http://www.adriannebrennan.com/dawnoftheseraphs.html On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 8:15 PM, Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... wrote: I think Caucasian writers never think of people of color unless they socialize with them. How else do we end up with tv shows like Seinfeld and Friends? NYC is extremely diverse and yet you have two examples of a show where even the extras are 98% white. On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Martin Baxter truthseeker...@... wrote: Adrianne, I write Afrocentric from my protagonists' standpoint, but my supporting characters are of all races, drawing from my own past. In defense of Caucasian writers, they may not be able to bridge that divide for the same reason. There simply may be no one
