[scifinoir2] Re: Survivors
The thing that bothers me is that there shouldn't be that much scarcity with a metro area of a 2 million or so people to scavenge. Idiots take over one store or mall? Move further out and scavenge somewhere else. There are thousands of empty homes raid their cabinets and pantries. Where are the farms? If 99% of the population is dead I'd imagine there is an unoccupied beef, dairy, hog or sheep farm or two within easy driving distance. It had potential but I got frustrated with the characters, their decisions and the direction of the show. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... wrote: I am starting to get the feeling that they originally had a 2 hour movie that was stretched out into a series. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Martin Baxter martinbaxt...@...wrote: Another reason why I've quit on it. When common sense leaves, so does Martin. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 3:49 PM, Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... wrote: There seems to be logic missing from the characters on the show. For example, you leave the house to relocate and the boy goes home. Why do you need everyone to go to the house and leave the truck unguarded? The show is on Tuesdays now. Season 2 episode 1 played last night. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 12:42 PM, Martin Baxter martinbaxt...@...wrote: No, because I've stopped watching. It's still tagged to Saturdays in my part of the world, and I Autotune it for viewing, but invariably opt out a few minutes in for something else. Just isn't grabbing me anymore. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 3:39 PM, Mr. Worf hellomahog...@...wrote: Did anyone notice that they changed the night the show comes on, AND have already started season 2??? -- Celebrating 10 years of bringing diversity to perversity! Mahogany at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahogany_pleasures_of_darkness/ -- Celebrating 10 years of bringing diversity to perversity! Mahogany at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahogany_pleasures_of_darkness/ -- Celebrating 10 years of bringing diversity to perversity! Mahogany at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahogany_pleasures_of_darkness/
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors
I was thinking that too. Most of the population died in three days so all of animals are still there unless they were infected as well. There was a scene where the boy saw a dead sheep in the water where they were living, but nothing came from it. Also in another episode they came across a small family that lived at a farm/ chocolate company. The father had killed all of the animals in fear of them being infected. I still don't know why they aren't wearing masks when they go into places. That is just stupid. In the last episode someone set fire to the local hospital. Stupid. The show is a frustrating train wreck, but it may be that because we are looking at it from a less rigid American point of view. We tend to think a little more self resilience rather than the passive brits. On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 1:17 PM, B Smith daikaij...@yahoo.com wrote: The thing that bothers me is that there shouldn't be that much scarcity with a metro area of a 2 million or so people to scavenge. Idiots take over one store or mall? Move further out and scavenge somewhere else. There are thousands of empty homes raid their cabinets and pantries. Where are the farms? If 99% of the population is dead I'd imagine there is an unoccupied beef, dairy, hog or sheep farm or two within easy driving distance. It had potential but I got frustrated with the characters, their decisions and the direction of the show. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... wrote: I am starting to get the feeling that they originally had a 2 hour movie that was stretched out into a series. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Martin Baxter martinbaxter7@ ...wrote: Another reason why I've quit on it. When common sense leaves, so does Martin. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 3:49 PM, Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... wrote: There seems to be logic missing from the characters on the show. For example, you leave the house to relocate and the boy goes home. Why do you need everyone to go to the house and leave the truck unguarded? The show is on Tuesdays now. Season 2 episode 1 played last night. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 12:42 PM, Martin Baxter martinbaxter7@ ...wrote: No, because I've stopped watching. It's still tagged to Saturdays in my part of the world, and I Autotune it for viewing, but invariably opt out a few minutes in for something else. Just isn't grabbing me anymore. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 3:39 PM, Mr. Worf hellomahog...@...wrote: Did anyone notice that they changed the night the show comes on, AND have already started season 2??? -- Celebrating 10 years of bringing diversity to perversity! Mahogany at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahogany_pleasures_of_darkness/ -- Celebrating 10 years of bringing diversity to perversity! Mahogany at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahogany_pleasures_of_darkness/ -- Celebrating 10 years of bringing diversity to perversity! Mahogany at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahogany_pleasures_of_darkness/ Post your SciFiNoir Profile at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scifinoir2/app/peoplemap2/entry/add?fmvn=mapYahoo! Groups Links -- Celebrating 10 years of bringing diversity to perversity! Mahogany at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahogany_pleasures_of_darkness/
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors
B, I'd be afraid to handle the cattle, for fear that the disease that killed everyone might be loitering in them. On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 4:17 PM, B Smith daikaij...@yahoo.com wrote: The thing that bothers me is that there shouldn't be that much scarcity with a metro area of a 2 million or so people to scavenge. Idiots take over one store or mall? Move further out and scavenge somewhere else. There are thousands of empty homes raid their cabinets and pantries. Where are the farms? If 99% of the population is dead I'd imagine there is an unoccupied beef, dairy, hog or sheep farm or two within easy driving distance. It had potential but I got frustrated with the characters, their decisions and the direction of the show. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com, Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... wrote: I am starting to get the feeling that they originally had a 2 hour movie that was stretched out into a series. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Martin Baxter martinbaxter7@ ...wrote: Another reason why I've quit on it. When common sense leaves, so does Martin. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 3:49 PM, Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... wrote: There seems to be logic missing from the characters on the show. For example, you leave the house to relocate and the boy goes home. Why do you need everyone to go to the house and leave the truck unguarded? The show is on Tuesdays now. Season 2 episode 1 played last night. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 12:42 PM, Martin Baxter martinbaxter7@ ...wrote: No, because I've stopped watching. It's still tagged to Saturdays in my part of the world, and I Autotune it for viewing, but invariably opt out a few minutes in for something else. Just isn't grabbing me anymore. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 3:39 PM, Mr. Worf hellomahog...@...wrote: Did anyone notice that they changed the night the show comes on, AND have already started season 2??? -- Celebrating 10 years of bringing diversity to perversity! Mahogany at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahogany_pleasures_of_darkness/ -- Celebrating 10 years of bringing diversity to perversity! Mahogany at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahogany_pleasures_of_darkness/ -- Celebrating 10 years of bringing diversity to perversity! Mahogany at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahogany_pleasures_of_darkness/
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors
But you're spot-on, re scavenging. There should be tons of canned goods lying about. On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 5:20 PM, Martin Baxter martinbaxt...@gmail.comwrote: B, I'd be afraid to handle the cattle, for fear that the disease that killed everyone might be loitering in them. On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 4:17 PM, B Smith daikaij...@yahoo.com wrote: The thing that bothers me is that there shouldn't be that much scarcity with a metro area of a 2 million or so people to scavenge. Idiots take over one store or mall? Move further out and scavenge somewhere else. There are thousands of empty homes raid their cabinets and pantries. Where are the farms? If 99% of the population is dead I'd imagine there is an unoccupied beef, dairy, hog or sheep farm or two within easy driving distance. It had potential but I got frustrated with the characters, their decisions and the direction of the show. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com, Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... wrote: I am starting to get the feeling that they originally had a 2 hour movie that was stretched out into a series. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Martin Baxter martinbaxter7@ ...wrote: Another reason why I've quit on it. When common sense leaves, so does Martin. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 3:49 PM, Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... wrote: There seems to be logic missing from the characters on the show. For example, you leave the house to relocate and the boy goes home. Why do you need everyone to go to the house and leave the truck unguarded? The show is on Tuesdays now. Season 2 episode 1 played last night. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 12:42 PM, Martin Baxter martinbaxter7@ ...wrote: No, because I've stopped watching. It's still tagged to Saturdays in my part of the world, and I Autotune it for viewing, but invariably opt out a few minutes in for something else. Just isn't grabbing me anymore. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 3:39 PM, Mr. Worf hellomahog...@...wrote: Did anyone notice that they changed the night the show comes on, AND have already started season 2??? -- Celebrating 10 years of bringing diversity to perversity! Mahogany at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahogany_pleasures_of_darkness/ -- Celebrating 10 years of bringing diversity to perversity! Mahogany at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahogany_pleasures_of_darkness/ -- Celebrating 10 years of bringing diversity to perversity! Mahogany at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahogany_pleasures_of_darkness/
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors
Not to mention other food distribution centers that they could have taken advantage of. There are bakeries, meat plants, frozen food factories, cheese factories etc all they need is a phone book and a map. Their water problems would be over if they just dropped by the avion factory or Sharper Image or REI. That's one of the many things that bug me. On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Martin Baxter martinbaxt...@gmail.comwrote: But you're spot-on, re scavenging. There should be tons of canned goods lying about. On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 5:20 PM, Martin Baxter martinbaxt...@gmail.comwrote: B, I'd be afraid to handle the cattle, for fear that the disease that killed everyone might be loitering in them. On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 4:17 PM, B Smith daikaij...@yahoo.com wrote: The thing that bothers me is that there shouldn't be that much scarcity with a metro area of a 2 million or so people to scavenge. Idiots take over one store or mall? Move further out and scavenge somewhere else. There are thousands of empty homes raid their cabinets and pantries. Where are the farms? If 99% of the population is dead I'd imagine there is an unoccupied beef, dairy, hog or sheep farm or two within easy driving distance. It had potential but I got frustrated with the characters, their decisions and the direction of the show. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com, Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... wrote: I am starting to get the feeling that they originally had a 2 hour movie that was stretched out into a series. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Martin Baxter martinbaxter7@ ...wrote: Another reason why I've quit on it. When common sense leaves, so does Martin. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 3:49 PM, Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... wrote: There seems to be logic missing from the characters on the show. For example, you leave the house to relocate and the boy goes home. Why do you need everyone to go to the house and leave the truck unguarded? The show is on Tuesdays now. Season 2 episode 1 played last night. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 12:42 PM, Martin Baxter martinbaxter7@ ...wrote: No, because I've stopped watching. It's still tagged to Saturdays in my part of the world, and I Autotune it for viewing, but invariably opt out a few minutes in for something else. Just isn't grabbing me anymore. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 3:39 PM, Mr. Worf HelloMahogany@ ...wrote: Did anyone notice that they changed the night the show comes on, AND have already started season 2??? -- Celebrating 10 years of bringing diversity to perversity! Mahogany at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahogany_pleasures_of_darkness/ -- Celebrating 10 years of bringing diversity to perversity! Mahogany at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahogany_pleasures_of_darkness/ -- Celebrating 10 years of bringing diversity to perversity! Mahogany at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahogany_pleasures_of_darkness/ -- Celebrating 10 years of bringing diversity to perversity! Mahogany at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahogany_pleasures_of_darkness/
[scifinoir2] Re: Survivors
And scavenge generators and fuel, solar panels and camping type appliances that can run on dc power in order to preserve their fresh food for as long as possible. The water thing is stupid. Carbon is readily available and they can boil the filtered water or set up a small still to further purify the water. Where were their water barrels, cisterns, etc.? Greg was shown to competent but you can't tell. Martin, So far the animals seem ok but I can appreciate your concern. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... wrote: Not to mention other food distribution centers that they could have taken advantage of. There are bakeries, meat plants, frozen food factories, cheese factories etc all they need is a phone book and a map. Their water problems would be over if they just dropped by the avion factory or Sharper Image or REI. That's one of the many things that bug me. On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Martin Baxter martinbaxt...@...wrote: But you're spot-on, re scavenging. There should be tons of canned goods lying about. On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 5:20 PM, Martin Baxter martinbaxt...@...wrote: B, I'd be afraid to handle the cattle, for fear that the disease that killed everyone might be loitering in them. On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 4:17 PM, B Smith daikaij...@... wrote: The thing that bothers me is that there shouldn't be that much scarcity with a metro area of a 2 million or so people to scavenge. Idiots take over one store or mall? Move further out and scavenge somewhere else. There are thousands of empty homes raid their cabinets and pantries. Where are the farms? If 99% of the population is dead I'd imagine there is an unoccupied beef, dairy, hog or sheep farm or two within easy driving distance. It had potential but I got frustrated with the characters, their decisions and the direction of the show. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com, Mr. Worf HelloMahogany@ wrote: I am starting to get the feeling that they originally had a 2 hour movie that was stretched out into a series. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Martin Baxter martinbaxter7@ ...wrote: Another reason why I've quit on it. When common sense leaves, so does Martin. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 3:49 PM, Mr. Worf HelloMahogany@ wrote: There seems to be logic missing from the characters on the show. For example, you leave the house to relocate and the boy goes home. Why do you need everyone to go to the house and leave the truck unguarded? The show is on Tuesdays now. Season 2 episode 1 played last night. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 12:42 PM, Martin Baxter martinbaxter7@ ...wrote: No, because I've stopped watching. It's still tagged to Saturdays in my part of the world, and I Autotune it for viewing, but invariably opt out a few minutes in for something else. Just isn't grabbing me anymore. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 3:39 PM, Mr. Worf HelloMahogany@ ...wrote: Did anyone notice that they changed the night the show comes on, AND have already started season 2??? -- Celebrating 10 years of bringing diversity to perversity! Mahogany at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahogany_pleasures_of_darkness/ -- Celebrating 10 years of bringing diversity to perversity! Mahogany at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahogany_pleasures_of_darkness/ -- Celebrating 10 years of bringing diversity to perversity! Mahogany at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahogany_pleasures_of_darkness/ -- Celebrating 10 years of bringing diversity to perversity! Mahogany at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahogany_pleasures_of_darkness/
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors?
I think that the things would eventually go back to how they were before man interfered. Over produced, over bred animals will die off immediately, the ones that learn to adapt will thrive. If you want a variety of food you will need a barn, hen house, pigs, cows etc. We have wild turkeys here and I can tell you it took less than 10 years for them to repopulate here. We have them all over the place and I'm sure they will be good eating! :) You could also allow them to eat grass. (wow what a concept! :) ) Dairy cows eat grass, the ones for beef eat corn concoctions. The problem will be large cats and bears. There have been coyote sightings in San Francisco and foxes near Stanford University. On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 2:42 PM, B Smith daikaij...@yahoo.com wrote: I'm on the hunting and fishing team too. Although with the huge numbers of domesticated animals in the U.S. eating wouldn't be a problem for a long time. The bigger problem would be feeding them on a long term basis and preserving meat if the power grid is shot. The cattle and sheep problem would take care itself in the spring through fall because taking them off grain and feeding them strictly grass and forage would take off some of the pressure but even then huge numbers of them would have to be slaughtered or culled. Hay and winter pasture cultivation would be a hell of a lot easier than growing corn and soybeans for animal food. But 85 million cattle and 6 million sheep could cause huge environmental problems in the long term. Hogs on the other hand would be a menace of epic proportions. We'd have to cull huge numbers of them to keep them from becoming a horde of mammalian locusts. They are smart resilient and return to the wild very quickly. In the U.S. alone there are about 66 million hogs and it's no way in hell that a population of 3 million of so people post-virus could keep them in check. Look at South Texas or Australia to see how unchecked numbers of hogs can impact an area. Chickens...let's jsut say we'd have huge amounts organic compost to use for a long time. Numbers would drop after the current genration of broilers were dealt with but there still would be a huge number of birds that would starve to death if they aren't euthanised. There are nearly 9 billion chickens slughtered every year in the U.S.!!! Throw in turkeys, ducks and other commercially raised poultry and you see the enormity of the problem. We'd have to make sure we'd have enough self pollinating non-genetically modified varieties of plants to make 2nd generation agriculture effective. All these wonderful GMO crops don't breed true and yields plummet by design. If you didn't have heirloom seed lines it could be a huge problem in the future. I'll stop now. LOL --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@... wrote: Well you took Buckingham Palace first thing and you love books, so you know you are on team Scifi! From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mr. Worf Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 1:21 AM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? I can also shoot a gun, and fish too. :) On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 1:13 AM, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@... wrote: I want you on my team!!! :-) -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of B Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:53 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? we have a pretty good cross section of folks that post. I think we might be lacking a few skillsets but with books and hard work we could make a go. I'm pretty well versed in agriculture and could handle the basics of growing food, animal based agriculture and have even milked a cow or three. I've slaughtered and procesed my own meat so that wouldn't scare me. I know which end of the hammer to swing and could be semi-handy if pressed into service. I also know my way around a lab setting pretty darn well so manufacturing biodiesel and the like would be up my alley as well. Unfortunately I've gotten lazy and haven't used my more physical skillsets for a while. I guess i'd have to come out of retirement. Any pilots on the list? How about some mechanically inclined people? Medical professionals? Anyone know how to set up an off the grid solar or wind power system? --- In scifino...@... mailto:scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com , Tracey de Morsella tdlists@ wrote: I hate reality tv, but maybe this would be good. How do you think we
[scifinoir2] Re: Survivors?
Actually modern dairy cows are fed mixed rations as well. A lot of modern dairies have very little grazing compared to the way it was done in the past. Dairy cows are so specialized there would be massive die offs in the first few weeks from mastitis and other infections. With no calves to suck and no human interference those full bags become bacterial soup pretty quickly. Some would survive and dry off(go out of milking condition) but with so few bulls on farms these days there would be a big drop off in numbers in a generation. I imagine interbreeding with the more multiple breeds of beef bulls would change the look of domestic cows a hell of a lot in a couple of generations. Beef cows are actually far more resilient than the dairy animals and cow-calf pairs are kept on grass in most of the country before the calves are processed and placed on feed. That's why I wouldn't be concerned about them as much. They toughen up pretty quickly. I think the wild animals wouldn't be a major concern for a while for any groups of people. There would be a buffet of domestic pets and livestock to prey on for a long time. Some isolated problems from the ones that scavenge human corpses but I imagine they would be dispatched pretty quickly. There won't be a shortage of guns. LOL. The feral animal population would be the scarier proposition. With so many bodies left by the plague I imagine lots of hungry animals would scavenge corpses, equate humans with food and have to be destroyed. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... wrote: I think that the things would eventually go back to how they were before man interfered. Over produced, over bred animals will die off immediately, the ones that learn to adapt will thrive. If you want a variety of food you will need a barn, hen house, pigs, cows etc. We have wild turkeys here and I can tell you it took less than 10 years for them to repopulate here. We have them all over the place and I'm sure they will be good eating! :) You could also allow them to eat grass. (wow what a concept! :) ) Dairy cows eat grass, the ones for beef eat corn concoctions. The problem will be large cats and bears. There have been coyote sightings in San Francisco and foxes near Stanford University. On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 2:42 PM, B Smith daikaij...@... wrote: I'm on the hunting and fishing team too. Although with the huge numbers of domesticated animals in the U.S. eating wouldn't be a problem for a long time. The bigger problem would be feeding them on a long term basis and preserving meat if the power grid is shot. The cattle and sheep problem would take care itself in the spring through fall because taking them off grain and feeding them strictly grass and forage would take off some of the pressure but even then huge numbers of them would have to be slaughtered or culled. Hay and winter pasture cultivation would be a hell of a lot easier than growing corn and soybeans for animal food. But 85 million cattle and 6 million sheep could cause huge environmental problems in the long term. Hogs on the other hand would be a menace of epic proportions. We'd have to cull huge numbers of them to keep them from becoming a horde of mammalian locusts. They are smart resilient and return to the wild very quickly. In the U.S. alone there are about 66 million hogs and it's no way in hell that a population of 3 million of so people post-virus could keep them in check. Look at South Texas or Australia to see how unchecked numbers of hogs can impact an area. Chickens...let's jsut say we'd have huge amounts organic compost to use for a long time. Numbers would drop after the current genration of broilers were dealt with but there still would be a huge number of birds that would starve to death if they aren't euthanised. There are nearly 9 billion chickens slughtered every year in the U.S.!!! Throw in turkeys, ducks and other commercially raised poultry and you see the enormity of the problem. We'd have to make sure we'd have enough self pollinating non-genetically modified varieties of plants to make 2nd generation agriculture effective. All these wonderful GMO crops don't breed true and yields plummet by design. If you didn't have heirloom seed lines it could be a huge problem in the future. I'll stop now. LOL --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Tracey de Morsella tdlists@ wrote: Well you took Buckingham Palace first thing and you love books, so you know you are on team Scifi! From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mr. Worf Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 1:21 AM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? I can also shoot a gun, and fish too. :) On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 1:13 AM, Tracey de Morsella tdlists@ wrote: I want you on my team
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors?
I love the History Channel show Life After People, which deals with all of this: what happens to power plants, what happens to domesticated pets, fish in fish tanks, cattle, horses. In one show, they dealt with animals. It was cool. They showed how in a hundred years or so, vast herds of elephants would be thundering across the country, along with cattle and horses. They showed how cutesy family cats and dogs would go feral pretty quickly (another reason I hate how we anthropomorphize them--they're animals). They showed tigers and leopards hunting vast overgrown grasslands that used to be highways and freeways, chasing the abundant deer running throughout the cities. Life After People started a new season just last month. They've also tackled things such as, what will happen to our great works of art, our major buildings, our treasured symbols? One show was wild, as the dome of the Capitol fell in upon itself. They showed the roof of the building where the Constitution is housed collapsing in a century or so. Although the document itself was still protected against rain and oxidation in its casing of thick glass and inert gases, it was finally done in by the one thing it's not protected against: sunlight. They showed how the sun would beam down on the Constitution for several hours each day, in time simply obliterating the ink molecules until they fade into oblivion. Fascinating stuff. http://www.history.com/content/life_after_people/about-the-series - Original Message - From: B Smith daikaij...@yahoo.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 12:11:39 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? Actually modern dairy cows are fed mixed rations as well. A lot of modern dairies have very little grazing compared to the way it was done in the past. Dairy cows are so specialized there would be massive die offs in the first few weeks from mastitis and other infections. With no calves to suck and no human interference those full bags become bacterial soup pretty quickly. Some would survive and dry off(go out of milking condition) but with so few bulls on farms these days there would be a big drop off in numbers in a generation. I imagine interbreeding with the more multiple breeds of beef bulls would change the look of domestic cows a hell of a lot in a couple of generations. Beef cows are actually far more resilient than the dairy animals and cow-calf pairs are kept on grass in most of the country before the calves are processed and placed on feed. That's why I wouldn't be concerned about them as much. They toughen up pretty quickly. I think the wild animals wouldn't be a major concern for a while for any groups of people. There would be a buffet of domestic pets and livestock to prey on for a long time. Some isolated problems from the ones that scavenge human corpses but I imagine they would be dispatched pretty quickly. There won't be a shortage of guns. LOL. The feral animal population would be the scarier proposition. With so many bodies left by the plague I imagine lots of hungry animals would scavenge corpses, equate humans with food and have to be destroyed. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com , Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... wrote: I think that the things would eventually go back to how they were before man interfered. Over produced, over bred animals will die off immediately, the ones that learn to adapt will thrive. If you want a variety of food you will need a barn, hen house, pigs, cows etc. We have wild turkeys here and I can tell you it took less than 10 years for them to repopulate here. We have them all over the place and I'm sure they will be good eating! :) You could also allow them to eat grass. (wow what a concept! :) ) Dairy cows eat grass, the ones for beef eat corn concoctions. The problem will be large cats and bears. There have been coyote sightings in San Francisco and foxes near Stanford University. On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 2:42 PM, B Smith daikaij...@... wrote: I'm on the hunting and fishing team too. Although with the huge numbers of domesticated animals in the U.S. eating wouldn't be a problem for a long time. The bigger problem would be feeding them on a long term basis and preserving meat if the power grid is shot. The cattle and sheep problem would take care itself in the spring through fall because taking them off grain and feeding them strictly grass and forage would take off some of the pressure but even then huge numbers of them would have to be slaughtered or culled. Hay and winter pasture cultivation would be a hell of a lot easier than growing corn and soybeans for animal food. But 85 million cattle and 6 million sheep could cause huge environmental problems in the long term. Hogs on the other hand would be a menace of epic proportions. We'd have to cull huge numbers of them to keep
[scifinoir2] Re: Survivors?
I think there would be a lot of that but with 3 million or so survivors in the U.S. they could head off some of the things seen in in Life After People. If a disaster of this magnitude happened I imagine the U.S. would recall the bulk its military forces from foreign theaters and mobilize all reserves. If they have a similar survival rate as the general population the remnants of the government would have about 30,000-35,000 armed forces personnel left and over 150,000 civilian government workers. If they effectively use them it could be a pretty good start on holding things together. I would imagine there would be a massive migration as survivors head back to the coasts and along the Mississippi River corridor. Those areas could be reclaimed with lots of hard work. I imagine some independent(and separatist and militia) types would want to stick to the Plains and Mountain West but without significant help it would be pretty desolate living out there for a while. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Keith Johnson keithbjohn...@... wrote: I love the History Channel show Life After People, which deals with all of this: what happens to power plants, what happens to domesticated pets, fish in fish tanks, cattle, horses. In one show, they dealt with animals. It was cool. They showed how in a hundred years or so, vast herds of elephants would be thundering across the country, along with cattle and horses. They showed how cutesy family cats and dogs would go feral pretty quickly (another reason I hate how we anthropomorphize them--they're animals). They showed tigers and leopards hunting vast overgrown grasslands that used to be highways and freeways, chasing the abundant deer running throughout the cities. Life After People started a new season just last month. They've also tackled things such as, what will happen to our great works of art, our major buildings, our treasured symbols? One show was wild, as the dome of the Capitol fell in upon itself. They showed the roof of the building where the Constitution is housed collapsing in a century or so. Although the document itself was still protected against rain and oxidation in its casing of thick glass and inert gases, it was finally done in by the one thing it's not protected against: sunlight. They showed how the sun would beam down on the Constitution for several hours each day, in time simply obliterating the ink molecules until they fade into oblivion. Fascinating stuff. http://www.history.com/content/life_after_people/about-the-series - Original Message - From: B Smith daikaij...@... To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 12:11:39 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? Actually modern dairy cows are fed mixed rations as well. A lot of modern dairies have very little grazing compared to the way it was done in the past. Dairy cows are so specialized there would be massive die offs in the first few weeks from mastitis and other infections. With no calves to suck and no human interference those full bags become bacterial soup pretty quickly. Some would survive and dry off(go out of milking condition) but with so few bulls on farms these days there would be a big drop off in numbers in a generation. I imagine interbreeding with the more multiple breeds of beef bulls would change the look of domestic cows a hell of a lot in a couple of generations. Beef cows are actually far more resilient than the dairy animals and cow-calf pairs are kept on grass in most of the country before the calves are processed and placed on feed. That's why I wouldn't be concerned about them as much. They toughen up pretty quickly. I think the wild animals wouldn't be a major concern for a while for any groups of people. There would be a buffet of domestic pets and livestock to prey on for a long time. Some isolated problems from the ones that scavenge human corpses but I imagine they would be dispatched pretty quickly. There won't be a shortage of guns. LOL. The feral animal population would be the scarier proposition. With so many bodies left by the plague I imagine lots of hungry animals would scavenge corpses, equate humans with food and have to be destroyed. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com , Mr. Worf HelloMahogany@ wrote: I think that the things would eventually go back to how they were before man interfered. Over produced, over bred animals will die off immediately, the ones that learn to adapt will thrive. If you want a variety of food you will need a barn, hen house, pigs, cows etc. We have wild turkeys here and I can tell you it took less than 10 years for them to repopulate here. We have them all over the place and I'm sure they will be good eating! :) You could also allow them to eat grass. (wow what a concept! :) ) Dairy cows eat grass
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors?
I think America would return to its basic self. Do you remain in the vast tombstones of the cities or flee to the country-side? From: B Smith daikaij...@yahoo.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, February 19, 2010 1:19:19 PM Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? I think there would be a lot of that but with 3 million or so survivors in the U.S. they could head off some of the things seen in in Life After People. If a disaster of this magnitude happened I imagine the U.S. would recall the bulk its military forces from foreign theaters and mobilize all reserves. If they have a similar survival rate as the general population the remnants of the government would have about 30,000-35,000 armed forces personnel left and over 150,000 civilian government workers. If they effectively use them it could be a pretty good start on holding things together. I would imagine there would be a massive migration as survivors head back to the coasts and along the Mississippi River corridor. Those areas could be reclaimed with lots of hard work. I imagine some independent( and separatist and militia) types would want to stick to the Plains and Mountain West but without significant help it would be pretty desolate living out there for a while. --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, Keith Johnson KeithBJohnson@ ... wrote: I love the History Channel show Life After People, which deals with all of this: what happens to power plants, what happens to domesticated pets, fish in fish tanks, cattle, horses. In one show, they dealt with animals. It was cool. They showed how in a hundred years or so, vast herds of elephants would be thundering across the country, along with cattle and horses. They showed how cutesy family cats and dogs would go feral pretty quickly (another reason I hate how we anthropomorphize them--they're animals). They showed tigers and leopards hunting vast overgrown grasslands that used to be highways and freeways, chasing the abundant deer running throughout the cities. Life After People started a new season just last month. They've also tackled things such as, what will happen to our great works of art, our major buildings, our treasured symbols? One show was wild, as the dome of the Capitol fell in upon itself. They showed the roof of the building where the Constitution is housed collapsing in a century or so. Although the document itself was still protected against rain and oxidation in its casing of thick glass and inert gases, it was finally done in by the one thing it's not protected against: sunlight. They showed how the sun would beam down on the Constitution for several hours each day, in time simply obliterating the ink molecules until they fade into oblivion. Fascinating stuff. http://www.history. com/content/ life_after_ people/about- the-series - Original Message - From: B Smith daikaiju66@ ... To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 12:11:39 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? Actually modern dairy cows are fed mixed rations as well. A lot of modern dairies have very little grazing compared to the way it was done in the past. Dairy cows are so specialized there would be massive die offs in the first few weeks from mastitis and other infections. With no calves to suck and no human interference those full bags become bacterial soup pretty quickly. Some would survive and dry off(go out of milking condition) but with so few bulls on farms these days there would be a big drop off in numbers in a generation. I imagine interbreeding with the more multiple breeds of beef bulls would change the look of domestic cows a hell of a lot in a couple of generations. Beef cows are actually far more resilient than the dairy animals and cow-calf pairs are kept on grass in most of the country before the calves are processed and placed on feed. That's why I wouldn't be concerned about them as much. They toughen up pretty quickly. I think the wild animals wouldn't be a major concern for a while for any groups of people. There would be a buffet of domestic pets and livestock to prey on for a long time. Some isolated problems from the ones that scavenge human corpses but I imagine they would be dispatched pretty quickly. There won't be a shortage of guns. LOL. The feral animal population would be the scarier proposition. With so many bodies left by the plague I imagine lots of hungry animals would scavenge corpses, equate humans with food and have to be destroyed. --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com , Mr. Worf HelloMahogany@ wrote: I think that the things would eventually go back to how they were before man interfered. Over produced, over bred animals will die off immediately, the ones that learn to adapt will thrive. If you want a variety of food you
[scifinoir2] Re: Survivors?
Eventually the countryside for me. The cities would be a resource and a hazard until they are reclaimed. I'd imagine small towns and bedroom communities near major cities would get resettled or used as staging areas first. In the short term maintaining infrastructure outside the cities would be a hell of a task. If you live in a rural area where you get any sort of harsh winter weather you'd be trapped. And the roads would be in bad shape pretty quickly. Freezing and thawing damages roads, widens cracks and worsens any sort of structural flaw. There have to be people in the rural areas growing food, animals etc. I imagine some sort of communal living would take presidence in the first few years. You could use wind turbines and solar arrays to supply enough power for a group of people off the grid. Readily available food, water and fuel, access to medical facilities and other things we take for granted would be a big problem. You get hurt out in the hinterlands you'd be in a lot of trouble. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, George Arterberry brotherfromhow...@... wrote: I think America would return to its basic self. Do you remain in the vast tombstones of the cities or flee to the country-side? From: B Smith daikaij...@... To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, February 19, 2010 1:19:19 PM Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? Â I think there would be a lot of that but with 3 million or so survivors in the U.S. they could head off some of the things seen in in Life After People. If a disaster of this magnitude happened I imagine the U.S. would recall the bulk its military forces from foreign theaters and mobilize all reserves. If they have a similar survival rate as the general population the remnants of the government would have about 30,000-35,000 armed forces personnel left and over 150,000 civilian government workers. If they effectively use them it could be a pretty good start on holding things together. I would imagine there would be a massive migration as survivors head back to the coasts and along the Mississippi River corridor. Those areas could be reclaimed with lots of hard work. I imagine some independent( and separatist and militia) types would want to stick to the Plains and Mountain West but without significant help it would be pretty desolate living out there for a while. --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, Keith Johnson KeithBJohnson@ ... wrote: I love the History Channel show Life After People, which deals with all of this: what happens to power plants, what happens to domesticated pets, fish in fish tanks, cattle, horses. In one show, they dealt with animals. It was cool. They showed how in a hundred years or so, vast herds of elephants would be thundering across the country, along with cattle and horses. They showed how cutesy family cats and dogs would go feral pretty quickly (another reason I hate how we anthropomorphize them--they're animals). They showed tigers and leopards hunting vast overgrown grasslands that used to be highways and freeways, chasing the abundant deer running throughout the cities. Life After People started a new season just last month. They've also tackled things such as, what will happen to our great works of art, our major buildings, our treasured symbols? One show was wild, as the dome of the Capitol fell in upon itself. They showed the roof of the building where the Constitution is housed collapsing in a century or so. Although the document itself was still protected against rain and oxidation in its casing of thick glass and inert gases, it was finally done in by the one thing it's not protected against: sunlight. They showed how the sun would beam down on the Constitution for several hours each day, in time simply obliterating the ink molecules until they fade into oblivion. Fascinating stuff. http://www.history. com/content/ life_after_ people/about- the-series - Original Message - From: B Smith daikaiju66@ ... To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 12:11:39 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? Actually modern dairy cows are fed mixed rations as well. A lot of modern dairies have very little grazing compared to the way it was done in the past. Dairy cows are so specialized there would be massive die offs in the first few weeks from mastitis and other infections. With no calves to suck and no human interference those full bags become bacterial soup pretty quickly. Some would survive and dry off(go out of milking condition) but with so few bulls on farms these days there would be a big drop off in numbers in a generation. I imagine interbreeding with the more multiple breeds of beef bulls would change the look of domestic cows a hell
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors?
As much as I'd hate to, I'd go to the countryside. (City kid, born and bred.) I suddenly have a thought. What happens to those who need daily meds? I'm in that number and, without a pharmacy to dispense... guess I'd have to stage a few break-ins before departing. _ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors?
B, I could conceivably see any remnants of standing military units taking on and overrunning those militia units, for their ordnance more than anything else. And, as much as militia members tout themselves as being able to handle themselves, they'd drop like flies before professional soldiers. If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director? -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: daikaij...@yahoo.com Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:19:19 + Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? I think there would be a lot of that but with 3 million or so survivors in the U.S. they could head off some of the things seen in in Life After People. If a disaster of this magnitude happened I imagine the U.S. would recall the bulk its military forces from foreign theaters and mobilize all reserves. If they have a similar survival rate as the general population the remnants of the government would have about 30,000-35,000 armed forces personnel left and over 150,000 civilian government workers. If they effectively use them it could be a pretty good start on holding things together. I would imagine there would be a massive migration as survivors head back to the coasts and along the Mississippi River corridor. Those areas could be reclaimed with lots of hard work. I imagine some independent(and separatist and militia) types would want to stick to the Plains and Mountain West but without significant help it would be pretty desolate living out there for a while. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Keith Johnson keithbjohn...@... wrote: I love the History Channel show Life After People, which deals with all of this: what happens to power plants, what happens to domesticated pets, fish in fish tanks, cattle, horses. In one show, they dealt with animals. It was cool. They showed how in a hundred years or so, vast herds of elephants would be thundering across the country, along with cattle and horses. They showed how cutesy family cats and dogs would go feral pretty quickly (another reason I hate how we anthropomorphize them--they're animals). They showed tigers and leopards hunting vast overgrown grasslands that used to be highways and freeways, chasing the abundant deer running throughout the cities. Life After People started a new season just last month. They've also tackled things such as, what will happen to our great works of art, our major buildings, our treasured symbols? One show was wild, as the dome of the Capitol fell in upon itself. They showed the roof of the building where the Constitution is housed collapsing in a century or so. Although the document itself was still protected against rain and oxidation in its casing of thick glass and inert gases, it was finally done in by the one thing it's not protected against: sunlight. They showed how the sun would beam down on the Constitution for several hours each day, in time simply obliterating the ink molecules until they fade into oblivion. Fascinating stuff. http://www.history.com/content/life_after_people/about-the-series - Original Message - From: B Smith daikaij...@... To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 12:11:39 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? Actually modern dairy cows are fed mixed rations as well. A lot of modern dairies have very little grazing compared to the way it was done in the past. Dairy cows are so specialized there would be massive die offs in the first few weeks from mastitis and other infections. With no calves to suck and no human interference those full bags become bacterial soup pretty quickly. Some would survive and dry off(go out of milking condition) but with so few bulls on farms these days there would be a big drop off in numbers in a generation. I imagine interbreeding with the more multiple breeds of beef bulls would change the look of domestic cows a hell of a lot in a couple of generations. Beef cows are actually far more resilient than the dairy animals and cow-calf pairs are kept on grass in most of the country before the calves are processed and placed on feed. That's why I wouldn't be concerned about them as much. They toughen up pretty quickly. I think the wild animals wouldn't be a major concern for a while for any groups of people. There would be a buffet of domestic pets and livestock to prey on for a long time. Some isolated problems from the ones that scavenge human corpses but I imagine they would be dispatched pretty quickly. There won't be a shortage of guns. LOL. The feral animal population would be the scarier proposition. With so many bodies left by the plague I imagine lots of hungry animals would scavenge
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors?
And we've had a number of bear sightings in the outer counties of Metro Atlanta, especially the northern burbs of Cobb and Gwinnett. If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director? -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: hellomahog...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 01:33:20 -0800 Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? I think that the things would eventually go back to how they were before man interfered. Over produced, over bred animals will die off immediately, the ones that learn to adapt will thrive. If you want a variety of food you will need a barn, hen house, pigs, cows etc. We have wild turkeys here and I can tell you it took less than 10 years for them to repopulate here. We have them all over the place and I'm sure they will be good eating! :) You could also allow them to eat grass. (wow what a concept! :) ) Dairy cows eat grass, the ones for beef eat corn concoctions. The problem will be large cats and bears. There have been coyote sightings in San Francisco and foxes near Stanford University. On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 2:42 PM, B Smith daikaij...@yahoo.com wrote: I'm on the hunting and fishing team too. Although with the huge numbers of domesticated animals in the U.S. eating wouldn't be a problem for a long time. The bigger problem would be feeding them on a long term basis and preserving meat if the power grid is shot. The cattle and sheep problem would take care itself in the spring through fall because taking them off grain and feeding them strictly grass and forage would take off some of the pressure but even then huge numbers of them would have to be slaughtered or culled. Hay and winter pasture cultivation would be a hell of a lot easier than growing corn and soybeans for animal food. But 85 million cattle and 6 million sheep could cause huge environmental problems in the long term. Hogs on the other hand would be a menace of epic proportions. We'd have to cull huge numbers of them to keep them from becoming a horde of mammalian locusts. They are smart resilient and return to the wild very quickly. In the U.S. alone there are about 66 million hogs and it's no way in hell that a population of 3 million of so people post-virus could keep them in check. Look at South Texas or Australia to see how unchecked numbers of hogs can impact an area. Chickens...let's jsut say we'd have huge amounts organic compost to use for a long time. Numbers would drop after the current genration of broilers were dealt with but there still would be a huge number of birds that would starve to death if they aren't euthanised. There are nearly 9 billion chickens slughtered every year in the U.S.!!! Throw in turkeys, ducks and other commercially raised poultry and you see the enormity of the problem. We'd have to make sure we'd have enough self pollinating non-genetically modified varieties of plants to make 2nd generation agriculture effective. All these wonderful GMO crops don't breed true and yields plummet by design. If you didn't have heirloom seed lines it could be a huge problem in the future. I'll stop now. LOL --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@... wrote: Well you took Buckingham Palace first thing and you love books, so you know you are on team Scifi! From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mr. Worf Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 1:21 AM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? I can also shoot a gun, and fish too. :) On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 1:13 AM, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@... wrote: I want you on my team!!! :-) -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of B Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:53 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? we have a pretty good cross section of folks that post. I think we might be lacking a few skillsets but with books and hard work we could make a go. I'm pretty well versed in agriculture and could handle the basics of growing food, animal based agriculture and have even milked a cow or three. I've slaughtered and procesed my own meat so that wouldn't scare me. I know which end of the hammer to swing and could be semi-handy if pressed into service. I also know my way around a lab setting pretty darn well so manufacturing biodiesel and the like would be up my alley as well. Unfortunately I've gotten lazy and haven't used my more physical skillsets for a while. I guess i'd have to come out of retirement. Any pilots on the list? How about some mechanically inclined people? Medical professionals? Anyone know how to set up an off the grid solar or wind
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors?
I saw on the news that there were bears living in abandoned homes in Detroit! It happens very quickly. Did anyone see the episode of Life after humans where they visited Chernobyl? The soccer stadium was a forest that was so thick you couldn't see the other side of it. That's only 20 years. On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Martin Baxter truthseeker...@hotmail.comwrote: And we've had a number of bear sightings in the outer counties of Metro Atlanta, especially the northern burbs of Cobb and Gwinnett. If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director? -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik -- To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: hellomahog...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 01:33:20 -0800 Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? I think that the things would eventually go back to how they were before man interfered. Over produced, over bred animals will die off immediately, the ones that learn to adapt will thrive. If you want a variety of food you will need a barn, hen house, pigs, cows etc. We have wild turkeys here and I can tell you it took less than 10 years for them to repopulate here. We have them all over the place and I'm sure they will be good eating! :) You could also allow them to eat grass. (wow what a concept! :) ) Dairy cows eat grass, the ones for beef eat corn concoctions. The problem will be large cats and bears. There have been coyote sightings in San Francisco and foxes near Stanford University. On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 2:42 PM, B Smith daikaij...@yahoo.com wrote: I'm on the hunting and fishing team too. Although with the huge numbers of domesticated animals in the U.S. eating wouldn't be a problem for a long time. The bigger problem would be feeding them on a long term basis and preserving meat if the power grid is shot. The cattle and sheep problem would take care itself in the spring through fall because taking them off grain and feeding them strictly grass and forage would take off some of the pressure but even then huge numbers of them would have to be slaughtered or culled. Hay and winter pasture cultivation would be a hell of a lot easier than growing corn and soybeans for animal food. But 85 million cattle and 6 million sheep could cause huge environmental problems in the long term. Hogs on the other hand would be a menace of epic proportions. We'd have to cull huge numbers of them to keep them from becoming a horde of mammalian locusts. They are smart resilient and return to the wild very quickly. In the U.S. alone there are about 66 million hogs and it's no way in hell that a population of 3 million of so people post-virus could keep them in check. Look at South Texas or Australia to see how unchecked numbers of hogs can impact an area. Chickens...let's jsut say we'd have huge amounts organic compost to use for a long time. Numbers would drop after the current genration of broilers were dealt with but there still would be a huge number of birds that would starve to death if they aren't euthanised. There are nearly 9 billion chickens slughtered every year in the U.S.!!! Throw in turkeys, ducks and other commercially raised poultry and you see the enormity of the problem. We'd have to make sure we'd have enough self pollinating non-genetically modified varieties of plants to make 2nd generation agriculture effective. All these wonderful GMO crops don't breed true and yields plummet by design. If you didn't have heirloom seed lines it could be a huge problem in the future. I'll stop now. LOL --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@... wrote: Well you took Buckingham Palace first thing and you love books, so you know you are on team Scifi! From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mr. Worf Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 1:21 AM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? I can also shoot a gun, and fish too. :) On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 1:13 AM, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@... wrote: I want you on my team!!! :-) -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of B Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:53 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? we have a pretty good cross section of folks that post. I think we might be lacking a few skillsets but with books and hard work we could make a go. I'm pretty well versed in agriculture and could handle the basics of growing food, animal based agriculture and have even milked a cow or three. I've slaughtered and procesed my own meat so that wouldn't scare me. I know which end of the hammer to swing and could be semi-handy if pressed into service. I also know my way around a lab setting pretty darn well so
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors?
Haven't gotten around to seeing any of the new eps as yet, as I'm busy working. Hopefully, they'll hand me a marathon soon. If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director? -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: hellomahog...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 13:08:11 -0800 Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? I saw on the news that there were bears living in abandoned homes in Detroit! It happens very quickly. Did anyone see the episode of Life after humans where they visited Chernobyl? The soccer stadium was a forest that was so thick you couldn't see the other side of it. That's only 20 years. On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Martin Baxter truthseeker...@hotmail.com wrote: And we've had a number of bear sightings in the outer counties of Metro Atlanta, especially the northern burbs of Cobb and Gwinnett. If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director? -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: hellomahog...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 01:33:20 -0800 Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? I think that the things would eventually go back to how they were before man interfered. Over produced, over bred animals will die off immediately, the ones that learn to adapt will thrive. If you want a variety of food you will need a barn, hen house, pigs, cows etc. We have wild turkeys here and I can tell you it took less than 10 years for them to repopulate here. We have them all over the place and I'm sure they will be good eating! :) You could also allow them to eat grass. (wow what a concept! :) ) Dairy cows eat grass, the ones for beef eat corn concoctions. The problem will be large cats and bears. There have been coyote sightings in San Francisco and foxes near Stanford University. On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 2:42 PM, B Smith daikaij...@yahoo.com wrote: I'm on the hunting and fishing team too. Although with the huge numbers of domesticated animals in the U.S. eating wouldn't be a problem for a long time. The bigger problem would be feeding them on a long term basis and preserving meat if the power grid is shot. The cattle and sheep problem would take care itself in the spring through fall because taking them off grain and feeding them strictly grass and forage would take off some of the pressure but even then huge numbers of them would have to be slaughtered or culled. Hay and winter pasture cultivation would be a hell of a lot easier than growing corn and soybeans for animal food. But 85 million cattle and 6 million sheep could cause huge environmental problems in the long term. Hogs on the other hand would be a menace of epic proportions. We'd have to cull huge numbers of them to keep them from becoming a horde of mammalian locusts. They are smart resilient and return to the wild very quickly. In the U.S. alone there are about 66 million hogs and it's no way in hell that a population of 3 million of so people post-virus could keep them in check. Look at South Texas or Australia to see how unchecked numbers of hogs can impact an area. Chickens...let's jsut say we'd have huge amounts organic compost to use for a long time. Numbers would drop after the current genration of broilers were dealt with but there still would be a huge number of birds that would starve to death if they aren't euthanised. There are nearly 9 billion chickens slughtered every year in the U.S.!!! Throw in turkeys, ducks and other commercially raised poultry and you see the enormity of the problem. We'd have to make sure we'd have enough self pollinating non-genetically modified varieties of plants to make 2nd generation agriculture effective. All these wonderful GMO crops don't breed true and yields plummet by design. If you didn't have heirloom seed lines it could be a huge problem in the future. I'll stop now. LOL --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@... wrote: Well you took Buckingham Palace first thing and you love books, so you know you are on team Scifi! From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mr. Worf Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 1:21 AM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? I can also shoot a gun, and fish too. :) On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 1:13 AM, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@... wrote: I want you on my team!!! :-) -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of B Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:53 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors?
it could be a huge problem in the future. I'll stop now. LOL --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Tracey de Morsella tdlists@ wrote: Well you took Buckingham Palace first thing and you love books, so you know you are on team Scifi! From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mr. Worf Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 1:21 AM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? I can also shoot a gun, and fish too. :) On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 1:13 AM, Tracey de Morsella tdlists@ wrote: I want you on my team!!! :-) -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of B Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:53 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? we have a pretty good cross section of folks that post. I think we might be lacking a few skillsets but with books and hard work we could make a go. I'm pretty well versed in agriculture and could handle the basics of growing food, animal based agriculture and have even milked a cow or three. I've slaughtered and procesed my own meat so that wouldn't scare me. I know which end of the hammer to swing and could be semi-handy if pressed into service. I also know my way around a lab setting pretty darn well so manufacturing biodiesel and the like would be up my alley as well. Unfortunately I've gotten lazy and haven't used my more physical skillsets for a while. I guess i'd have to come out of retirement. Any pilots on the list? How about some mechanically inclined people? Medical professionals? Anyone know how to set up an off the grid solar or wind power system? --- In scifinoir2@ mailto:scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com , Tracey de Morsella tdlists@ wrote: I hate reality tv, but maybe this would be good. How do you think we Post your SciFiNoir Profile at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scifinoir2/app/peoplemap2/entry/add?fmvn=mapYahoo! Groups Links -- Celebrating 10 years of bringing diversity to perversity! Mahogany at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahogany_pleasures_of_darkness/
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors?
In that, Mr Worf, I suspect the use of biologics as an end to killing off humanity. If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director? -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: hellomahog...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 13:12:29 -0800 Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? We have a lot of organic farmers in California so that's what I was thinking of when I wrote that post. There is an organic dairy farm only about 10 minutes from here. They have a couple hundred head of cattle and land on both sides of the freeway. I think the biggest problem would be rats until they get to the point where they get a disease as well. Getting back to the show. Isn't it a little odd than none of the animals died and only the humans? That would take some serious genetic manipulation. On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 9:11 AM, B Smith daikaij...@yahoo.com wrote: Actually modern dairy cows are fed mixed rations as well. A lot of modern dairies have very little grazing compared to the way it was done in the past. Dairy cows are so specialized there would be massive die offs in the first few weeks from mastitis and other infections. With no calves to suck and no human interference those full bags become bacterial soup pretty quickly. Some would survive and dry off(go out of milking condition) but with so few bulls on farms these days there would be a big drop off in numbers in a generation. I imagine interbreeding with the more multiple breeds of beef bulls would change the look of domestic cows a hell of a lot in a couple of generations. Beef cows are actually far more resilient than the dairy animals and cow-calf pairs are kept on grass in most of the country before the calves are processed and placed on feed. That's why I wouldn't be concerned about them as much. They toughen up pretty quickly. I think the wild animals wouldn't be a major concern for a while for any groups of people. There would be a buffet of domestic pets and livestock to prey on for a long time. Some isolated problems from the ones that scavenge human corpses but I imagine they would be dispatched pretty quickly. There won't be a shortage of guns. LOL. The feral animal population would be the scarier proposition. With so many bodies left by the plague I imagine lots of hungry animals would scavenge corpses, equate humans with food and have to be destroyed. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... wrote: I think that the things would eventually go back to how they were before man interfered. Over produced, over bred animals will die off immediately, the ones that learn to adapt will thrive. If you want a variety of food you will need a barn, hen house, pigs, cows etc. We have wild turkeys here and I can tell you it took less than 10 years for them to repopulate here. We have them all over the place and I'm sure they will be good eating! :) You could also allow them to eat grass. (wow what a concept! :) ) Dairy cows eat grass, the ones for beef eat corn concoctions. The problem will be large cats and bears. There have been coyote sightings in San Francisco and foxes near Stanford University. On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 2:42 PM, B Smith daikaij...@... wrote: I'm on the hunting and fishing team too. Although with the huge numbers of domesticated animals in the U.S. eating wouldn't be a problem for a long time. The bigger problem would be feeding them on a long term basis and preserving meat if the power grid is shot. The cattle and sheep problem would take care itself in the spring through fall because taking them off grain and feeding them strictly grass and forage would take off some of the pressure but even then huge numbers of them would have to be slaughtered or culled. Hay and winter pasture cultivation would be a hell of a lot easier than growing corn and soybeans for animal food. But 85 million cattle and 6 million sheep could cause huge environmental problems in the long term. Hogs on the other hand would be a menace of epic proportions. We'd have to cull huge numbers of them to keep them from becoming a horde of mammalian locusts. They are smart resilient and return to the wild very quickly. In the U.S. alone there are about 66 million hogs and it's no way in hell that a population of 3 million of so people post-virus could keep them in check. Look at South Texas or Australia to see how unchecked numbers of hogs can impact an area. Chickens...let's jsut say we'd have huge amounts organic compost to use for a long time. Numbers would drop after the current genration of broilers were dealt with but there still would be a huge number of birds that would starve to death if they aren't euthanised. There are nearly 9
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors?
How can they rationalize mass murder? That is the biggest question about the show that has been bugging me since the last scene of the show. On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 2:02 PM, Martin Baxter truthseeker...@hotmail.comwrote: In that, Mr Worf, I suspect the use of biologics as an end to killing off humanity. If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director? -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik -- To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: hellomahog...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 13:12:29 -0800 Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? We have a lot of organic farmers in California so that's what I was thinking of when I wrote that post. There is an organic dairy farm only about 10 minutes from here. They have a couple hundred head of cattle and land on both sides of the freeway. I think the biggest problem would be rats until they get to the point where they get a disease as well. Getting back to the show. Isn't it a little odd than none of the animals died and only the humans? That would take some serious genetic manipulation. On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 9:11 AM, B Smith daikaij...@yahoo.com wrote: Actually modern dairy cows are fed mixed rations as well. A lot of modern dairies have very little grazing compared to the way it was done in the past. Dairy cows are so specialized there would be massive die offs in the first few weeks from mastitis and other infections. With no calves to suck and no human interference those full bags become bacterial soup pretty quickly. Some would survive and dry off(go out of milking condition) but with so few bulls on farms these days there would be a big drop off in numbers in a generation. I imagine interbreeding with the more multiple breeds of beef bulls would change the look of domestic cows a hell of a lot in a couple of generations. Beef cows are actually far more resilient than the dairy animals and cow-calf pairs are kept on grass in most of the country before the calves are processed and placed on feed. That's why I wouldn't be concerned about them as much. They toughen up pretty quickly. I think the wild animals wouldn't be a major concern for a while for any groups of people. There would be a buffet of domestic pets and livestock to prey on for a long time. Some isolated problems from the ones that scavenge human corpses but I imagine they would be dispatched pretty quickly. There won't be a shortage of guns. LOL. The feral animal population would be the scarier proposition. With so many bodies left by the plague I imagine lots of hungry animals would scavenge corpses, equate humans with food and have to be destroyed. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... wrote: I think that the things would eventually go back to how they were before man interfered. Over produced, over bred animals will die off immediately, the ones that learn to adapt will thrive. If you want a variety of food you will need a barn, hen house, pigs, cows etc. We have wild turkeys here and I can tell you it took less than 10 years for them to repopulate here. We have them all over the place and I'm sure they will be good eating! :) You could also allow them to eat grass. (wow what a concept! :) ) Dairy cows eat grass, the ones for beef eat corn concoctions. The problem will be large cats and bears. There have been coyote sightings in San Francisco and foxes near Stanford University. On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 2:42 PM, B Smith daikaij...@... wrote: I'm on the hunting and fishing team too. Although with the huge numbers of domesticated animals in the U.S. eating wouldn't be a problem for a long time. The bigger problem would be feeding them on a long term basis and preserving meat if the power grid is shot. The cattle and sheep problem would take care itself in the spring through fall because taking them off grain and feeding them strictly grass and forage would take off some of the pressure but even then huge numbers of them would have to be slaughtered or culled. Hay and winter pasture cultivation would be a hell of a lot easier than growing corn and soybeans for animal food. But 85 million cattle and 6 million sheep could cause huge environmental problems in the long term. Hogs on the other hand would be a menace of epic proportions. We'd have to cull huge numbers of them to keep them from becoming a horde of mammalian locusts. They are smart resilient and return to the wild very quickly. In the U.S. alone there are about 66 million hogs and it's no way in hell that a population of 3 million of so people post-virus could keep them in check. Look at South Texas or Australia to see how unchecked numbers of hogs can impact an area. Chickens...let's jsut say we'd have huge amounts organic compost
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors?
Hew-mons have a remarkable capacity for rationalization. I know a guy who, on three different occasions, posted awful things about a woman I know he was in love with, and called it affectionate humor. So affectionate that she cut him off that day. If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director? -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: hellomahog...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:08:58 -0800 Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? How can they rationalize mass murder? That is the biggest question about the show that has been bugging me since the last scene of the show. On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 2:02 PM, Martin Baxter truthseeker...@hotmail.com wrote: In that, Mr Worf, I suspect the use of biologics as an end to killing off humanity. If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director? -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: hellomahog...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 13:12:29 -0800 Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? We have a lot of organic farmers in California so that's what I was thinking of when I wrote that post. There is an organic dairy farm only about 10 minutes from here. They have a couple hundred head of cattle and land on both sides of the freeway. I think the biggest problem would be rats until they get to the point where they get a disease as well. Getting back to the show. Isn't it a little odd than none of the animals died and only the humans? That would take some serious genetic manipulation. On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 9:11 AM, B Smith daikaij...@yahoo.com wrote: Actually modern dairy cows are fed mixed rations as well. A lot of modern dairies have very little grazing compared to the way it was done in the past. Dairy cows are so specialized there would be massive die offs in the first few weeks from mastitis and other infections. With no calves to suck and no human interference those full bags become bacterial soup pretty quickly. Some would survive and dry off(go out of milking condition) but with so few bulls on farms these days there would be a big drop off in numbers in a generation. I imagine interbreeding with the more multiple breeds of beef bulls would change the look of domestic cows a hell of a lot in a couple of generations. Beef cows are actually far more resilient than the dairy animals and cow-calf pairs are kept on grass in most of the country before the calves are processed and placed on feed. That's why I wouldn't be concerned about them as much. They toughen up pretty quickly. I think the wild animals wouldn't be a major concern for a while for any groups of people. There would be a buffet of domestic pets and livestock to prey on for a long time. Some isolated problems from the ones that scavenge human corpses but I imagine they would be dispatched pretty quickly. There won't be a shortage of guns. LOL. The feral animal population would be the scarier proposition. With so many bodies left by the plague I imagine lots of hungry animals would scavenge corpses, equate humans with food and have to be destroyed. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... wrote: I think that the things would eventually go back to how they were before man interfered. Over produced, over bred animals will die off immediately, the ones that learn to adapt will thrive. If you want a variety of food you will need a barn, hen house, pigs, cows etc. We have wild turkeys here and I can tell you it took less than 10 years for them to repopulate here. We have them all over the place and I'm sure they will be good eating! :) You could also allow them to eat grass. (wow what a concept! :) ) Dairy cows eat grass, the ones for beef eat corn concoctions. The problem will be large cats and bears. There have been coyote sightings in San Francisco and foxes near Stanford University. On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 2:42 PM, B Smith daikaij...@... wrote: I'm on the hunting and fishing team too. Although with the huge numbers of domesticated animals in the U.S. eating wouldn't be a problem for a long time. The bigger problem would be feeding them on a long term basis and preserving meat if the power grid is shot. The cattle and sheep problem would take care itself in the spring through fall because taking them off grain and feeding them strictly grass and forage would take off some of the pressure but even then huge numbers of them would have to be slaughtered or culled. Hay and winter pasture cultivation would be a hell of a lot easier than growing corn and soybeans for animal food. But 85
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors?
right, but Life After People's premise is that *all* humanity dies, not a single man or woman left - Original Message - From: B Smith daikaij...@yahoo.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 1:19:19 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? I think there would be a lot of that but with 3 million or so survivors in the U.S. they could head off some of the things seen in in Life After People. If a disaster of this magnitude happened I imagine the U.S. would recall the bulk its military forces from foreign theaters and mobilize all reserves. If they have a similar survival rate as the general population the remnants of the government would have about 30,000-35,000 armed forces personnel left and over 150,000 civilian government workers. If they effectively use them it could be a pretty good start on holding things together. I would imagine there would be a massive migration as survivors head back to the coasts and along the Mississippi River corridor. Those areas could be reclaimed with lots of hard work. I imagine some independent(and separatist and militia) types would want to stick to the Plains and Mountain West but without significant help it would be pretty desolate living out there for a while. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com , Keith Johnson keithbjohn...@... wrote: I love the History Channel show Life After People, which deals with all of this: what happens to power plants, what happens to domesticated pets, fish in fish tanks, cattle, horses. In one show, they dealt with animals. It was cool. They showed how in a hundred years or so, vast herds of elephants would be thundering across the country, along with cattle and horses. They showed how cutesy family cats and dogs would go feral pretty quickly (another reason I hate how we anthropomorphize them--they're animals). They showed tigers and leopards hunting vast overgrown grasslands that used to be highways and freeways, chasing the abundant deer running throughout the cities. Life After People started a new season just last month. They've also tackled things such as, what will happen to our great works of art, our major buildings, our treasured symbols? One show was wild, as the dome of the Capitol fell in upon itself. They showed the roof of the building where the Constitution is housed collapsing in a century or so. Although the document itself was still protected against rain and oxidation in its casing of thick glass and inert gases, it was finally done in by the one thing it's not protected against: sunlight. They showed how the sun would beam down on the Constitution for several hours each day, in time simply obliterating the ink molecules until they fade into oblivion. Fascinating stuff. http://www.history.com/content/life_after_people/about-the-series - Original Message - From: B Smith daikaij...@... To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 12:11:39 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? Actually modern dairy cows are fed mixed rations as well. A lot of modern dairies have very little grazing compared to the way it was done in the past. Dairy cows are so specialized there would be massive die offs in the first few weeks from mastitis and other infections. With no calves to suck and no human interference those full bags become bacterial soup pretty quickly. Some would survive and dry off(go out of milking condition) but with so few bulls on farms these days there would be a big drop off in numbers in a generation. I imagine interbreeding with the more multiple breeds of beef bulls would change the look of domestic cows a hell of a lot in a couple of generations. Beef cows are actually far more resilient than the dairy animals and cow-calf pairs are kept on grass in most of the country before the calves are processed and placed on feed. That's why I wouldn't be concerned about them as much. They toughen up pretty quickly. I think the wild animals wouldn't be a major concern for a while for any groups of people. There would be a buffet of domestic pets and livestock to prey on for a long time. Some isolated problems from the ones that scavenge human corpses but I imagine they would be dispatched pretty quickly. There won't be a shortage of guns. LOL. The feral animal population would be the scarier proposition. With so many bodies left by the plague I imagine lots of hungry animals would scavenge corpses, equate humans with food and have to be destroyed. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com , Mr. Worf HelloMahogany@ wrote: I think that the things would eventually go back to how they were before man interfered. Over produced, over bred animals will die off immediately, the ones that learn to adapt will thrive. If you want a variety of food you
[scifinoir2] Re: Survivors?
They wouldn't even need the ordnance. I have sneaking feeling that under martial law of an epic nature they'd flatten the place with artillery and keep moving. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Martin Baxter truthseeker...@... wrote: B, I could conceivably see any remnants of standing military units taking on and overrunning those militia units, for their ordnance more than anything else. And, as much as militia members tout themselves as being able to handle themselves, they'd drop like flies before professional soldiers. If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director? -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: daikaij...@... Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:19:19 + Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? I think there would be a lot of that but with 3 million or so survivors in the U.S. they could head off some of the things seen in in Life After People. If a disaster of this magnitude happened I imagine the U.S. would recall the bulk its military forces from foreign theaters and mobilize all reserves. If they have a similar survival rate as the general population the remnants of the government would have about 30,000-35,000 armed forces personnel left and over 150,000 civilian government workers. If they effectively use them it could be a pretty good start on holding things together. I would imagine there would be a massive migration as survivors head back to the coasts and along the Mississippi River corridor. Those areas could be reclaimed with lots of hard work. I imagine some independent(and separatist and militia) types would want to stick to the Plains and Mountain West but without significant help it would be pretty desolate living out there for a while. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Keith Johnson KeithBJohnson@ wrote: I love the History Channel show Life After People, which deals with all of this: what happens to power plants, what happens to domesticated pets, fish in fish tanks, cattle, horses. In one show, they dealt with animals. It was cool. They showed how in a hundred years or so, vast herds of elephants would be thundering across the country, along with cattle and horses. They showed how cutesy family cats and dogs would go feral pretty quickly (another reason I hate how we anthropomorphize them--they're animals). They showed tigers and leopards hunting vast overgrown grasslands that used to be highways and freeways, chasing the abundant deer running throughout the cities. Life After People started a new season just last month. They've also tackled things such as, what will happen to our great works of art, our major buildings, our treasured symbols? One show was wild, as the dome of the Capitol fell in upon itself. They showed the roof of the building where the Constitution is housed collapsing in a century or so. Although the document itself was still protected against rain and oxidation in its casing of thick glass and inert gases, it was finally done in by the one thing it's not protected against: sunlight. They showed how the sun would beam down on the Constitution for several hours each day, in time simply obliterating the ink molecules until they fade into oblivion. Fascinating stuff. http://www.history.com/content/life_after_people/about-the-series - Original Message - From: B Smith daikaiju66@ To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 12:11:39 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? Actually modern dairy cows are fed mixed rations as well. A lot of modern dairies have very little grazing compared to the way it was done in the past. Dairy cows are so specialized there would be massive die offs in the first few weeks from mastitis and other infections. With no calves to suck and no human interference those full bags become bacterial soup pretty quickly. Some would survive and dry off(go out of milking condition) but with so few bulls on farms these days there would be a big drop off in numbers in a generation. I imagine interbreeding with the more multiple breeds of beef bulls would change the look of domestic cows a hell of a lot in a couple of generations. Beef cows are actually far more resilient than the dairy animals and cow-calf pairs are kept on grass in most of the country before the calves are processed and placed on feed. That's why I wouldn't be concerned about them as much. They toughen up pretty quickly. I think the wild animals wouldn't be a major concern for a while for any groups of people. There would
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors?
I want you on my team!!! :-) -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of B Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:53 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? we have a pretty good cross section of folks that post. I think we might be lacking a few skillsets but with books and hard work we could make a go. I'm pretty well versed in agriculture and could handle the basics of growing food, animal based agriculture and have even milked a cow or three. I've slaughtered and procesed my own meat so that wouldn't scare me. I know which end of the hammer to swing and could be semi-handy if pressed into service. I also know my way around a lab setting pretty darn well so manufacturing biodiesel and the like would be up my alley as well. Unfortunately I've gotten lazy and haven't used my more physical skillsets for a while. I guess i'd have to come out of retirement. Any pilots on the list? How about some mechanically inclined people? Medical professionals? Anyone know how to set up an off the grid solar or wind power system? --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@... wrote: I hate reality tv, but maybe this would be good. How do you think we would do as a survivor group? -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of B Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:23 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? I liked The Colony but they were too competent. Their group had engineers, a couple of scientists, a mechanic, a doctor, a nurse and two handymen. The only deadweight they had was a personal trainer/martial arts instructor who happened to be a hard worker. It's still pretty fun to watch. When they had to interact with other survivors made for good tv. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Tracey de Morsella tdlists@ wrote: You make a good defense. And as I said, despite ALLL :-) my pet peeves, I have not given up on it. Even quietly, the characters are poorly motivated. Some of my favorite shows had mediocre starts, so I will get off my they're running around with their heads cut off' meme. :-). Also I recognize that I have a different profile than the average person. I'm a natural planner, I believe we are in the midst of peak oil, I'm a professional treehugger, and I hang around a lot of scientist and techies. . So, while I know, I would be loosing my mind (likely curled up into a ball moaning incoherently), it would not be in my nature to drive aimlessly away from my base without a plan. I will look for the colony. Is it any good? I think we would kick as a group, but would supper from serious tech gadget withdrawal. Before the Internet, I hoarded books and lived in the library. Thus my inclination to raid books and libraries as I mentioned before -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of B Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 1:45 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? I haven't seen the original either. I've seen the first three episodes and the crew starts to wise up pretty quickly. I think Martin hit the nail on the head that seeing 99% of humanity die would throw most folks into a deep depression. The doctor seems shell shocked but I imagine she's been on the frontlines since the beginning and by the time we meet them she's probably seen enough death to break even the toughest person. Survivors is firmly in the British Quiet Apocolypse genre. They play very different than the American stories in the same genre. Americans would have handled this so differently it would have been a completely different show. It would have looked like Jericho crossed with Zombieland with even more guns. In a post-Katrina world I think an American version of this show would look drastically different. BTW did anyone see the Discovery Channel's The Colony? They were a bit too skilled and competent but it was a fun show. This reminds me of a game/scenario posted on another forum about when the stuff hits the fan. It would be interesting to see how SciFiNoir would gameplan a post-disaster event using their skills, materials and talents. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Martin Baxter truthseeker013@ wrote: I VAGUELY remember sitting down in front of the TV to watch it on PBS, but that's about it. Wonder if Hulu might have it... nope. :-( If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director? -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: tdlists@ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:00:40 -0800 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors?
I can also shoot a gun, and fish too. :) On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 1:13 AM, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com wrote: I want you on my team!!! :-) -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of B Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:53 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? we have a pretty good cross section of folks that post. I think we might be lacking a few skillsets but with books and hard work we could make a go. I'm pretty well versed in agriculture and could handle the basics of growing food, animal based agriculture and have even milked a cow or three. I've slaughtered and procesed my own meat so that wouldn't scare me. I know which end of the hammer to swing and could be semi-handy if pressed into service. I also know my way around a lab setting pretty darn well so manufacturing biodiesel and the like would be up my alley as well. Unfortunately I've gotten lazy and haven't used my more physical skillsets for a while. I guess i'd have to come out of retirement. Any pilots on the list? How about some mechanically inclined people? Medical professionals? Anyone know how to set up an off the grid solar or wind power system? --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@... wrote: I hate reality tv, but maybe this would be good. How do you think we would do as a survivor group? -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of B Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:23 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? I liked The Colony but they were too competent. Their group had engineers, a couple of scientists, a mechanic, a doctor, a nurse and two handymen. The only deadweight they had was a personal trainer/martial arts instructor who happened to be a hard worker. It's still pretty fun to watch. When they had to interact with other survivors made for good tv. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Tracey de Morsella tdlists@ wrote: You make a good defense. And as I said, despite ALLL :-) my pet peeves, I have not given up on it. Even quietly, the characters are poorly motivated. Some of my favorite shows had mediocre starts, so I will get off my they're running around with their heads cut off' meme. :-). Also I recognize that I have a different profile than the average person. I'm a natural planner, I believe we are in the midst of peak oil, I'm a professional treehugger, and I hang around a lot of scientist and techies. . So, while I know, I would be loosing my mind (likely curled up into a ball moaning incoherently), it would not be in my nature to drive aimlessly away from my base without a plan. I will look for the colony. Is it any good? I think we would kick as a group, but would supper from serious tech gadget withdrawal. Before the Internet, I hoarded books and lived in the library. Thus my inclination to raid books and libraries as I mentioned before -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of B Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 1:45 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? I haven't seen the original either. I've seen the first three episodes and the crew starts to wise up pretty quickly. I think Martin hit the nail on the head that seeing 99% of humanity die would throw most folks into a deep depression. The doctor seems shell shocked but I imagine she's been on the frontlines since the beginning and by the time we meet them she's probably seen enough death to break even the toughest person. Survivors is firmly in the British Quiet Apocolypse genre. They play very different than the American stories in the same genre. Americans would have handled this so differently it would have been a completely different show. It would have looked like Jericho crossed with Zombieland with even more guns. In a post-Katrina world I think an American version of this show would look drastically different. BTW did anyone see the Discovery Channel's The Colony? They were a bit too skilled and competent but it was a fun show. This reminds me of a game/scenario posted on another forum about when the stuff hits the fan. It would be interesting to see how SciFiNoir would gameplan a post-disaster event using their skills, materials and talents. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Martin Baxter truthseeker013@ wrote: I VAGUELY remember sitting down in front of the TV to watch it on PBS, but that's about it. Wonder if Hulu might have it... nope. :-( If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors?
Well you took Buckingham Palace first thing and you love books, so you know you are on team Scifi! From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mr. Worf Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 1:21 AM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? I can also shoot a gun, and fish too. :) On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 1:13 AM, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com wrote: I want you on my team!!! :-) -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of B Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:53 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? we have a pretty good cross section of folks that post. I think we might be lacking a few skillsets but with books and hard work we could make a go. I'm pretty well versed in agriculture and could handle the basics of growing food, animal based agriculture and have even milked a cow or three. I've slaughtered and procesed my own meat so that wouldn't scare me. I know which end of the hammer to swing and could be semi-handy if pressed into service. I also know my way around a lab setting pretty darn well so manufacturing biodiesel and the like would be up my alley as well. Unfortunately I've gotten lazy and haven't used my more physical skillsets for a while. I guess i'd have to come out of retirement. Any pilots on the list? How about some mechanically inclined people? Medical professionals? Anyone know how to set up an off the grid solar or wind power system? --- In scifino...@yahoogroups..com mailto:scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com , Tracey de Morsella tdli...@... wrote: I hate reality tv, but maybe this would be good. How do you think we would do as a survivor group? -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of B Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:23 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? I liked The Colony but they were too competent. Their group had engineers, a couple of scientists, a mechanic, a doctor, a nurse and two handymen. The only deadweight they had was a personal trainer/martial arts instructor who happened to be a hard worker. It's still pretty fun to watch. When they had to interact with other survivors made for good tv. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Tracey de Morsella tdlists@ wrote: You make a good defense. And as I said, despite ALLL :-) my pet peeves, I have not given up on it. Even quietly, the characters are poorly motivated. Some of my favorite shows had mediocre starts, so I will get off my they're running around with their heads cut off' meme. :-). Also I recognize that I have a different profile than the average person. I'm a natural planner, I believe we are in the midst of peak oil, I'm a professional treehugger, and I hang around a lot of scientist and techies. . So, while I know, I would be loosing my mind (likely curled up into a ball moaning incoherently), it would not be in my nature to drive aimlessly away from my base without a plan. I will look for the colony. Is it any good? I think we would kick as a group, but would supper from serious tech gadget withdrawal. Before the Internet, I hoarded books and lived in the library. Thus my inclination to raid books and libraries as I mentioned before -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of B Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 1:45 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? I haven't seen the original either. I've seen the first three episodes and the crew starts to wise up pretty quickly. I think Martin hit the nail on the head that seeing 99% of humanity die would throw most folks into a deep depression. The doctor seems shell shocked but I imagine she's been on the frontlines since the beginning and by the time we meet them she's probably seen enough death to break even the toughest person. Survivors is firmly in the British Quiet Apocolypse genre. They play very different than the American stories in the same genre. Americans would have handled this so differently it would have been a completely different show. It would have looked like Jericho crossed with Zombieland with even more guns. In a post-Katrina world I think an American version of this show would look drastically different. BTW did anyone see the Discovery Channel's The Colony? They were a bit too skilled and competent but it was a fun show. This reminds me of a game/scenario posted on another forum about when the stuff hits the fan. It would be interesting to see how SciFiNoir would gameplan a post-disaster event using their skills, materials and talents. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Martin Baxter
[scifinoir2] Re: Survivors?
Some of the plants would continue to operate for a while but if the grids go down it's a moot point. Also the bulk of their plants or coal and natural gas powered. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... wrote: I can understand power plants like a nuclear plant, but power plants like Hoover dam could run for some time until there are failures of the turbines. On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 11:58 AM, B Smith daikaij...@... wrote: Give it an episode or two and everything you guys mentioned will start to be answered. This was an intro episode and they spent more time introducing characters than getting to the nuts and bolts of survival. The survivors we have met so far are by an large urbanites who are pretty clueless about how stuff works. They kept thinking the government would get it's act together and establish some order but that all went down the tubes. I think that actually helped me enjoy the show. In the aftermath of a disaster this size people like Greg would be few and far between. BTW they initially thought that 10% of the population would be immune but it turned out to be less than 1%. England would have about 500,000 people scattered around post virus. The show is set in the Manchester area which has a roughly comparable population to Denver, Cleveland or pre-Katrina New Orleans. So that leaves roughly 25,000 people alive in that area. Someone mentioned going to London and Greg told them it was a bad idea. So as bad as things were where they were it was far better than London. As far as the power issue I was reading up on it and a catastrophic failure of the power grid can happen in less than a day if the plants aren't properly monitored, fueled, etc. If some of the powerplants failed early on it could have a cascading effect and end up taking down the entire grid. Imagine a country full of accidents like gas station explosion and it would make sense why they didn't have power. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Mr. Worf HelloMahogany@ wrote: Another thing about the show that bugged me was who would allow their families and the rest of the country to die in order to keep a secret for the government or company? On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 12:44 AM, Mr. Worf hellomahogany@ wrote: Solar panels, windmills and batteries would be the first thing I grab after securing everything else. It would be nice to watch a movie once in a while. Your husband is correct about grabbing books on how to do things. You will definitely need all of that info. On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 11:11 PM, Tracey de Morsella tdlists@ wrote: Electric is going to go too. It they got a diesel they could make fuel from cooking waste and tons of cooking oil let in all the stores. (Treehugger in the house). I like your idea of going to Buckingham palace. I was telling my husband that I would stay in London an look for one of the old mansions that they used to build in the center of town that usually get turned into museums. Buckingham palace will do just fine. What is driving me crazy is that people who see no people are so willing to leave each other when they may not see anyone for ages. I will watch it, but character motivation in this thing sucks. My husband said he would go around to hoard tools as over times they would become scarce. I said I would raid libraries and books stores so I could get a community of people learning critical skills for survival. Medicine, construction, engineering, etc. I also would go after seeds for planting veggies and fruits. What would be the first thing you would go after once you secured the palace J *From:* scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Mr. Worf *Sent:* Monday, February 15, 2010 10:41 PM *To:* scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* Re: [scifinoir2] Survivors? Yea that was a bit stupid. I didn't understand why water and power cut off only after 3 days. That made no sense to me at all. Another was no one thought of walking over to the toyota dealer and taking a new prius running on electric power instead of worrying about gas. I can understand that after everyone dying off it would make sense that people would be a little dazed for a while until reality starts to set in. Only the black guy took the time to grab supplies and a good vehicle that can drive off road. If I were them I would go to Buckingham palace. It has tons of animals and veggies. Plus lots of safety zones and large weapons cache. On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 10:03 PM, Tracey de Morsella tdlists@ wrote: Its passable, but Iââ¬â¢m underwhelmed. Plus, I get the idea that they
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors?
But the problem there would be keeping the power moving. Substations outward would need maintenance. If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director? -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: hellomahog...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 16:23:53 -0800 Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? I can understand power plants like a nuclear plant, but power plants like Hoover dam could run for some time until there are failures of the turbines. On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 11:58 AM, B Smith daikaij...@yahoo.com wrote: Give it an episode or two and everything you guys mentioned will start to be answered. This was an intro episode and they spent more time introducing characters than getting to the nuts and bolts of survival. The survivors we have met so far are by an large urbanites who are pretty clueless about how stuff works. They kept thinking the government would get it's act together and establish some order but that all went down the tubes. I think that actually helped me enjoy the show. In the aftermath of a disaster this size people like Greg would be few and far between. BTW they initially thought that 10% of the population would be immune but it turned out to be less than 1%. England would have about 500,000 people scattered around post virus. The show is set in the Manchester area which has a roughly comparable population to Denver, Cleveland or pre-Katrina New Orleans. So that leaves roughly 25,000 people alive in that area. Someone mentioned going to London and Greg told them it was a bad idea. So as bad as things were where they were it was far better than London. As far as the power issue I was reading up on it and a catastrophic failure of the power grid can happen in less than a day if the plants aren't properly monitored, fueled, etc. If some of the powerplants failed early on it could have a cascading effect and end up taking down the entire grid. Imagine a country full of accidents like gas station explosion and it would make sense why they didn't have power. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... wrote: Another thing about the show that bugged me was who would allow their families and the rest of the country to die in order to keep a secret for the government or company? On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 12:44 AM, Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... wrote: Solar panels, windmills and batteries would be the first thing I grab after securing everything else. It would be nice to watch a movie once in a while. Your husband is correct about grabbing books on how to do things. You will definitely need all of that info. On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 11:11 PM, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@... wrote: Electric is going to go too. It they got a diesel they could make fuel from cooking waste and tons of cooking oil let in all the stores. (Treehugger in the house). I like your idea of going to Buckingham palace. I was telling my husband that I would stay in London an look for one of the old mansions that they used to build in the center of town that usually get turned into museums. Buckingham palace will do just fine. What is driving me crazy is that people who see no people are so willing to leave each other when they may not see anyone for ages. I will watch it, but character motivation in this thing sucks. My husband said he would go around to hoard tools as over times they would become scarce. I said I would raid libraries and books stores so I could get a community of people learning critical skills for survival. Medicine, construction, engineering, etc. I also would go after seeds for planting veggies and fruits. What would be the first thing you would go after once you secured the palace J *From:* scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Mr. Worf *Sent:* Monday, February 15, 2010 10:41 PM *To:* scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* Re: [scifinoir2] Survivors? Yea that was a bit stupid. I didn't understand why water and power cut off only after 3 days. That made no sense to me at all. Another was no one thought of walking over to the toyota dealer and taking a new prius running on electric power instead of worrying about gas. I can understand that after everyone dying off it would make sense that people would be a little dazed for a while until reality starts to set in. Only the black guy took the time to grab supplies and a good vehicle that can drive off road. If I were them I would go to Buckingham palace. It has tons of animals and veggies. Plus lots of safety zones and large weapons cache. On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 10:03 PM, Tracey de
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors?
They have 16 nuclear plants in the UK. Unless they shut them down the reality is that anyone that is left would find out what multiple meltdowns would look like. On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 10:03 AM, B Smith daikaij...@yahoo.com wrote: Some of the plants would continue to operate for a while but if the grids go down it's a moot point. Also the bulk of their plants or coal and natural gas powered. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... wrote: I can understand power plants like a nuclear plant, but power plants like Hoover dam could run for some time until there are failures of the turbines. On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 11:58 AM, B Smith daikaij...@... wrote: Give it an episode or two and everything you guys mentioned will start to be answered. This was an intro episode and they spent more time introducing characters than getting to the nuts and bolts of survival. The survivors we have met so far are by an large urbanites who are pretty clueless about how stuff works. They kept thinking the government would get it's act together and establish some order but that all went down the tubes. I think that actually helped me enjoy the show. In the aftermath of a disaster this size people like Greg would be few and far between. BTW they initially thought that 10% of the population would be immune but it turned out to be less than 1%. England would have about 500,000 people scattered around post virus. The show is set in the Manchester area which has a roughly comparable population to Denver, Cleveland or pre-Katrina New Orleans. So that leaves roughly 25,000 people alive in that area. Someone mentioned going to London and Greg told them it was a bad idea. So as bad as things were where they were it was far better than London. As far as the power issue I was reading up on it and a catastrophic failure of the power grid can happen in less than a day if the plants aren't properly monitored, fueled, etc. If some of the powerplants failed early on it could have a cascading effect and end up taking down the entire grid. Imagine a country full of accidents like gas station explosion and it would make sense why they didn't have power. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Mr. Worf HelloMahogany@ wrote: Another thing about the show that bugged me was who would allow their families and the rest of the country to die in order to keep a secret for the government or company? On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 12:44 AM, Mr. Worf hellomahogany@ wrote: Solar panels, windmills and batteries would be the first thing I grab after securing everything else. It would be nice to watch a movie once in a while. Your husband is correct about grabbing books on how to do things. You will definitely need all of that info. On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 11:11 PM, Tracey de Morsella tdlists@ wrote: Electric is going to go too. It they got a diesel they could make fuel from cooking waste and tons of cooking oil let in all the stores. (Treehugger in the house). I like your idea of going to Buckingham palace. I was telling my husband that I would stay in London an look for one of the old mansions that they used to build in the center of town that usually get turned into museums. Buckingham palace will do just fine. What is driving me crazy is that people who see no people are so willing to leave each other when they may not see anyone for ages. I will watch it, but character motivation in this thing sucks. My husband said he would go around to hoard tools as over times they would become scarce. I said I would raid libraries and books stores so I could get a community of people learning critical skills for survival. Medicine, construction, engineering, etc. I also would go after seeds for planting veggies and fruits. What would be the first thing you would go after once you secured the palace J *From:* scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto: scifino...@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Mr. Worf *Sent:* Monday, February 15, 2010 10:41 PM *To:* scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* Re: [scifinoir2] Survivors? Yea that was a bit stupid. I didn't understand why water and power cut off only after 3 days. That made no sense to me at all. Another was no one thought of walking over to the toyota dealer and taking a new prius running on electric power instead of worrying about gas. I can understand that after everyone dying off it would make sense that people would be a little dazed for a while until reality starts to set in. Only the black guy took the time to grab
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors?
That's why seeds was on my list after books -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of B Smith Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 2:43 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? We'd have to make sure we'd have enough self pollinating non-genetically modified varieties of plants to make 2nd generation agriculture effective. All these wonderful GMO crops don't breed true and yields plummet by design. If you didn't have heirloom seed lines it could be a huge problem in the future. I'll stop now. LOL --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@... wrote: Well you took Buckingham Palace first thing and you love books, so you know you are on team Scifi! From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mr. Worf Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 1:21 AM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? I can also shoot a gun, and fish too. :) On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 1:13 AM, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@... wrote: I want you on my team!!! :-) -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of B Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:53 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? we have a pretty good cross section of folks that post. I think we might be lacking a few skillsets but with books and hard work we could make a go. I'm pretty well versed in agriculture and could handle the basics of growing food, animal based agriculture and have even milked a cow or three. I've slaughtered and procesed my own meat so that wouldn't scare me. I know which end of the hammer to swing and could be semi-handy if pressed into service. I also know my way around a lab setting pretty darn well so manufacturing biodiesel and the like would be up my alley as well. Unfortunately I've gotten lazy and haven't used my more physical skillsets for a while. I guess i'd have to come out of retirement. Any pilots on the list? How about some mechanically inclined people? Medical professionals? Anyone know how to set up an off the grid solar or wind power system? --- In scifino...@... mailto:scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com , Tracey de Morsella tdlists@ wrote: I hate reality tv, but maybe this would be good. How do you think we would do as a survivor group? -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of B Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:23 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? I liked The Colony but they were too competent. Their group had engineers, a couple of scientists, a mechanic, a doctor, a nurse and two handymen. The only deadweight they had was a personal trainer/martial arts instructor who happened to be a hard worker. It's still pretty fun to watch. When they had to interact with other survivors made for good tv. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Tracey de Morsella tdlists@ wrote: You make a good defense. And as I said, despite ALLL :-) my pet peeves, I have not given up on it. Even quietly, the characters are poorly motivated. Some of my favorite shows had mediocre starts, so I will get off my they're running around with their heads cut off' meme. :-). Also I recognize that I have a different profile than the average person. I'm a natural planner, I believe we are in the midst of peak oil, I'm a professional treehugger, and I hang around a lot of scientist and techies. . So, while I know, I would be loosing my mind (likely curled up into a ball moaning incoherently), it would not be in my nature to drive aimlessly away from my base without a plan. I will look for the colony. Is it any good? I think we would kick as a group, but would supper from serious tech gadget withdrawal. Before the Internet, I hoarded books and lived in the library. Thus my inclination to raid books and libraries as I mentioned before -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of B Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 1:45 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? I haven't seen the original either. I've seen the first three episodes and the crew starts to wise up pretty quickly. I think Martin hit the nail on the head that seeing 99% of humanity die would throw most folks into a deep depression. The doctor seems shell shocked but I imagine she's been on the frontlines since the beginning and by the time we meet them she's probably seen enough death to break even the toughest person. Survivors is firmly in the British Quiet Apocolypse genre. They play very
[scifinoir2] Re: Survivors?
Give it an episode or two and everything you guys mentioned will start to be answered. This was an intro episode and they spent more time introducing characters than getting to the nuts and bolts of survival. The survivors we have met so far are by an large urbanites who are pretty clueless about how stuff works. They kept thinking the government would get it's act together and establish some order but that all went down the tubes. I think that actually helped me enjoy the show. In the aftermath of a disaster this size people like Greg would be few and far between. BTW they initially thought that 10% of the population would be immune but it turned out to be less than 1%. England would have about 500,000 people scattered around post virus. The show is set in the Manchester area which has a roughly comparable population to Denver, Cleveland or pre-Katrina New Orleans. So that leaves roughly 25,000 people alive in that area. Someone mentioned going to London and Greg told them it was a bad idea. So as bad as things were where they were it was far better than London. As far as the power issue I was reading up on it and a catastrophic failure of the power grid can happen in less than a day if the plants aren't properly monitored, fueled, etc. If some of the powerplants failed early on it could have a cascading effect and end up taking down the entire grid. Imagine a country full of accidents like gas station explosion and it would make sense why they didn't have power. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... wrote: Another thing about the show that bugged me was who would allow their families and the rest of the country to die in order to keep a secret for the government or company? On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 12:44 AM, Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... wrote: Solar panels, windmills and batteries would be the first thing I grab after securing everything else. It would be nice to watch a movie once in a while. Your husband is correct about grabbing books on how to do things. You will definitely need all of that info. On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 11:11 PM, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@... wrote: Electric is going to go too. It they got a diesel they could make fuel from cooking waste and tons of cooking oil let in all the stores. (Treehugger in the house). I like your idea of going to Buckingham palace. I was telling my husband that I would stay in London an look for one of the old mansions that they used to build in the center of town that usually get turned into museums. Buckingham palace will do just fine. What is driving me crazy is that people who see no people are so willing to leave each other when they may not see anyone for ages. I will watch it, but character motivation in this thing sucks. My husband said he would go around to hoard tools as over times they would become scarce. I said I would raid libraries and books stores so I could get a community of people learning critical skills for survival. Medicine, construction, engineering, etc. I also would go after seeds for planting veggies and fruits. What would be the first thing you would go after once you secured the palace J *From:* scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Mr. Worf *Sent:* Monday, February 15, 2010 10:41 PM *To:* scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* Re: [scifinoir2] Survivors? Yea that was a bit stupid. I didn't understand why water and power cut off only after 3 days. That made no sense to me at all. Another was no one thought of walking over to the toyota dealer and taking a new prius running on electric power instead of worrying about gas. I can understand that after everyone dying off it would make sense that people would be a little dazed for a while until reality starts to set in. Only the black guy took the time to grab supplies and a good vehicle that can drive off road. If I were them I would go to Buckingham palace. It has tons of animals and veggies. Plus lots of safety zones and large weapons cache. On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 10:03 PM, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@... wrote: Its passable, but Iâm underwhelmed. Plus, I get the idea that they said 10% of the population would survive. That a great deal more than the sparseness of people that we are seeing. Additionally, people are not really responding in a way consistent how I think some would respond to Armageddon.. Other than the Black guy and finally the woman, people are aimless with no indication of coming up with a course of action. While not everyone is a planner, some doctors, engineers, and managers after a few days would become aware of the ramifications of their situation and start trying to figure out a plan of survival. These people just drive around for days and days. Makes no sense that driving
[scifinoir2] Re: Survivors?
I haven't seen the original either. I've seen the first three episodes and the crew starts to wise up pretty quickly. I think Martin hit the nail on the head that seeing 99% of humanity die would throw most folks into a deep depression. The doctor seems shell shocked but I imagine she's been on the frontlines since the beginning and by the time we meet them she's probably seen enough death to break even the toughest person. Survivors is firmly in the British Quiet Apocolypse genre. They play very different than the American stories in the same genre. Americans would have handled this so differently it would have been a completely different show. It would have looked like Jericho crossed with Zombieland with even more guns. In a post-Katrina world I think an American version of this show would look drastically different. BTW did anyone see the Discovery Channel's The Colony? They were a bit too skilled and competent but it was a fun show. This reminds me of a game/scenario posted on another forum about when the stuff hits the fan. It would be interesting to see how SciFiNoir would gameplan a post-disaster event using their skills, materials and talents. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Martin Baxter truthseeker...@... wrote: I VAGUELY remember sitting down in front of the TV to watch it on PBS, but that's about it. Wonder if Hulu might have it... nope. :-( If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director? -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: tdli...@... Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:00:40 -0800 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Survivors? I never saw it myself, but they have mentioned it in articles. From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Martin Baxter Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 12:58 PM To: SciFiNoir2 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Survivors? Tracey, I really don't remember the original. If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director? -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: tdli...@... Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:53:51 -0800 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Survivors? OK here is the other thing, with all the end of the world, survivor shows, etc on TV the movies that have been on forever, somebody in the group of characters would know that driving aimlessly is nuts. Where are they driving to. I know the Black guy is motivated to drive far away by his unknown back story he is probably connected to those scientists. But what about everyone else? Was the original series from the sixties or the seventies set up that way? From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Martin Baxter Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 12:42 PM To: SciFiNoir2 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Survivors? Me too, Tracey., And I know that there are experts in this field, as Armageddon Week aired on History Channel not long ago. If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director? -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube...com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: tdli...@... Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 22:03:14 -0800 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Survivors? Its passable, but I'm underwhelmed. Plus, I get the idea that they said 10% of the population would survive. That a great deal more than the sparseness of people that we are seeing. Additionally, people are not really responding in a way consistent how I think some would respond to Armageddon.. Other than the Black guy and finally the woman, people are aimless with no indication of coming up with a course of action. While not everyone is a planner, some doctors, engineers, and managers after a few days would become aware of the ramifications of their situation and start trying to figure out a plan of survival. These people just drive around for days and days. Makes no sense that driving aimlessly would be everyone's way of handling it. I hate shows that do not even bother with having a technical expert to consult with From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mr. Worf Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 9:00 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Survivors? Did anyone watch this show? What are your thoughts? -- Celebrating 10 years of bringing diversity to perversity!
[scifinoir2] Re: Survivors?
No because American roads would be vast parking lots filled with stalled cars and rotting corpses. ;) --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@... wrote: Would you be driving aimlessly From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Martin Baxter Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 1:13 PM To: SciFiNoir2 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Survivors? If I were in their position, I could see myself being off my rocker for some time. I'm very much a tech person, and not having my computer and Internet would leave me rattled to the core. _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection. Sign up http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/ now. E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514) Database version: 6.14370 http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514) Database version: 6.14370 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors?
LOL! You got that right -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of B Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 1:59 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? No because American roads would be vast parking lots filled with stalled cars and rotting corpses. ;) --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@... wrote: Would you be driving aimlessly From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Martin Baxter Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 1:13 PM To: SciFiNoir2 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Survivors? If I were in their position, I could see myself being off my rocker for some time. I'm very much a tech person, and not having my computer and Internet would leave me rattled to the core. _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection. Sign up http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/ now. E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514) Database version: 6.14370 http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514) Database version: 6.14370 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ Post your SciFiNoir Profile at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scifinoir2/app/peoplemap2/entry/add?fmvn=mapYa hoo! Groups Links E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514) Database version: 6.14370 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514) Database version: 6.14370 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors?
B, I missed The Colony almost completely (working). As for contributing to an apocalypse sitch, I wouldn't have much to toss in the hat. I've always had the gift of being able to manage. That's probably where I'd show up. _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors?
You make a good defense. And as I said, despite ALLL :-) my pet peeves, I have not given up on it. Even quietly, the characters are poorly motivated. Some of my favorite shows had mediocre starts, so I will get off my they're running around with their heads cut off' meme. :-). Also I recognize that I have a different profile than the average person. I'm a natural planner, I believe we are in the midst of peak oil, I'm a professional treehugger, and I hang around a lot of scientist and techies. . So, while I know, I would be loosing my mind (likely curled up into a ball moaning incoherently), it would not be in my nature to drive aimlessly away from my base without a plan. I will look for the colony. Is it any good? I think we would kick as a group, but would supper from serious tech gadget withdrawal. Before the Internet, I hoarded books and lived in the library. Thus my inclination to raid books and libraries as I mentioned before -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of B Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 1:45 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? I haven't seen the original either. I've seen the first three episodes and the crew starts to wise up pretty quickly. I think Martin hit the nail on the head that seeing 99% of humanity die would throw most folks into a deep depression. The doctor seems shell shocked but I imagine she's been on the frontlines since the beginning and by the time we meet them she's probably seen enough death to break even the toughest person. Survivors is firmly in the British Quiet Apocolypse genre. They play very different than the American stories in the same genre. Americans would have handled this so differently it would have been a completely different show. It would have looked like Jericho crossed with Zombieland with even more guns. In a post-Katrina world I think an American version of this show would look drastically different. BTW did anyone see the Discovery Channel's The Colony? They were a bit too skilled and competent but it was a fun show. This reminds me of a game/scenario posted on another forum about when the stuff hits the fan. It would be interesting to see how SciFiNoir would gameplan a post-disaster event using their skills, materials and talents. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Martin Baxter truthseeker...@... wrote: I VAGUELY remember sitting down in front of the TV to watch it on PBS, but that's about it. Wonder if Hulu might have it... nope. :-( If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director? -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: tdli...@... Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:00:40 -0800 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Survivors? I never saw it myself, but they have mentioned it in articles. From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Martin Baxter Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 12:58 PM To: SciFiNoir2 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Survivors? Tracey, I really don't remember the original. If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director? -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: tdli...@... Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:53:51 -0800 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Survivors? OK here is the other thing, with all the end of the world, survivor shows, etc on TV the movies that have been on forever, somebody in the group of characters would know that driving aimlessly is nuts. Where are they driving to. I know the Black guy is motivated to drive far away by his unknown back story - he is probably connected to those scientists. But what about everyone else? Was the original series from the sixties or the seventies set up that way? From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Martin Baxter Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 12:42 PM To: SciFiNoir2 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Survivors? Me too, Tracey., And I know that there are experts in this field, as Armageddon Week aired on History Channel not long ago. If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director? -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube...com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: tdli...@... Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 22:03:14 -0800 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Survivors? Its passable, but I'm underwhelmed. Plus, I get the idea
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors?
I'd probably never get out of Metro Atlanta if I drove. I'd drive to the nearest MARTA station, hop it to Hartsfield and fly out (or, if the airlines were grounded, Amtrak). If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director? -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: daikaij...@yahoo.com Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 21:58:46 + Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? No because American roads would be vast parking lots filled with stalled cars and rotting corpses. ;) --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@... wrote: Would you be driving aimlessly From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Martin Baxter Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 1:13 PM To: SciFiNoir2 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Survivors? If I were in their position, I could see myself being off my rocker for some time. I'm very much a tech person, and not having my computer and Internet would leave me rattled to the core. _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection. Sign up http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/ now. E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514) Database version: 6.14370 http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514) Database version: 6.14370 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ _ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/
[scifinoir2] Re: Survivors?
I liked The Colony but they were too competent. Their group had engineers, a couple of scientists, a mechanic, a doctor, a nurse and two handymen. The only deadweight they had was a personal trainer/martial arts instructor who happened to be a hard worker. It's still pretty fun to watch. When they had to interact with other survivors made for good tv. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@... wrote: You make a good defense. And as I said, despite ALLL :-) my pet peeves, I have not given up on it. Even quietly, the characters are poorly motivated. Some of my favorite shows had mediocre starts, so I will get off my they're running around with their heads cut off' meme. :-). Also I recognize that I have a different profile than the average person. I'm a natural planner, I believe we are in the midst of peak oil, I'm a professional treehugger, and I hang around a lot of scientist and techies. . So, while I know, I would be loosing my mind (likely curled up into a ball moaning incoherently), it would not be in my nature to drive aimlessly away from my base without a plan. I will look for the colony. Is it any good? I think we would kick as a group, but would supper from serious tech gadget withdrawal. Before the Internet, I hoarded books and lived in the library. Thus my inclination to raid books and libraries as I mentioned before -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of B Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 1:45 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? I haven't seen the original either. I've seen the first three episodes and the crew starts to wise up pretty quickly. I think Martin hit the nail on the head that seeing 99% of humanity die would throw most folks into a deep depression. The doctor seems shell shocked but I imagine she's been on the frontlines since the beginning and by the time we meet them she's probably seen enough death to break even the toughest person. Survivors is firmly in the British Quiet Apocolypse genre. They play very different than the American stories in the same genre. Americans would have handled this so differently it would have been a completely different show. It would have looked like Jericho crossed with Zombieland with even more guns. In a post-Katrina world I think an American version of this show would look drastically different. BTW did anyone see the Discovery Channel's The Colony? They were a bit too skilled and competent but it was a fun show. This reminds me of a game/scenario posted on another forum about when the stuff hits the fan. It would be interesting to see how SciFiNoir would gameplan a post-disaster event using their skills, materials and talents. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Martin Baxter truthseeker013@ wrote: I VAGUELY remember sitting down in front of the TV to watch it on PBS, but that's about it. Wonder if Hulu might have it... nope. :-( If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director? -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: tdlists@ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:00:40 -0800 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Survivors? I never saw it myself, but they have mentioned it in articles. From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Martin Baxter Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 12:58 PM To: SciFiNoir2 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Survivors? Tracey, I really don't remember the original. If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director? -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: tdlists@ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:53:51 -0800 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Survivors? OK here is the other thing, with all the end of the world, survivor shows, etc on TV the movies that have been on forever, somebody in the group of characters would know that driving aimlessly is nuts. Where are they driving to. I know the Black guy is motivated to drive far away by his unknown back story - he is probably connected to those scientists. But what about everyone else? Was the original series from the sixties or the seventies set up that way? From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Martin Baxter Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 12:42 PM To: SciFiNoir2
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors?
I hate reality tv, but maybe this would be good. How do you think we would do as a survivor group? -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of B Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:23 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? I liked The Colony but they were too competent. Their group had engineers, a couple of scientists, a mechanic, a doctor, a nurse and two handymen. The only deadweight they had was a personal trainer/martial arts instructor who happened to be a hard worker. It's still pretty fun to watch. When they had to interact with other survivors made for good tv. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@... wrote: You make a good defense. And as I said, despite ALLL :-) my pet peeves, I have not given up on it. Even quietly, the characters are poorly motivated. Some of my favorite shows had mediocre starts, so I will get off my they're running around with their heads cut off' meme. :-). Also I recognize that I have a different profile than the average person. I'm a natural planner, I believe we are in the midst of peak oil, I'm a professional treehugger, and I hang around a lot of scientist and techies. . So, while I know, I would be loosing my mind (likely curled up into a ball moaning incoherently), it would not be in my nature to drive aimlessly away from my base without a plan. I will look for the colony. Is it any good? I think we would kick as a group, but would supper from serious tech gadget withdrawal. Before the Internet, I hoarded books and lived in the library. Thus my inclination to raid books and libraries as I mentioned before -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of B Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 1:45 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? I haven't seen the original either. I've seen the first three episodes and the crew starts to wise up pretty quickly. I think Martin hit the nail on the head that seeing 99% of humanity die would throw most folks into a deep depression. The doctor seems shell shocked but I imagine she's been on the frontlines since the beginning and by the time we meet them she's probably seen enough death to break even the toughest person. Survivors is firmly in the British Quiet Apocolypse genre. They play very different than the American stories in the same genre. Americans would have handled this so differently it would have been a completely different show. It would have looked like Jericho crossed with Zombieland with even more guns. In a post-Katrina world I think an American version of this show would look drastically different. BTW did anyone see the Discovery Channel's The Colony? They were a bit too skilled and competent but it was a fun show. This reminds me of a game/scenario posted on another forum about when the stuff hits the fan. It would be interesting to see how SciFiNoir would gameplan a post-disaster event using their skills, materials and talents. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Martin Baxter truthseeker013@ wrote: I VAGUELY remember sitting down in front of the TV to watch it on PBS, but that's about it. Wonder if Hulu might have it... nope. :-( If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director? -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: tdlists@ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:00:40 -0800 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Survivors? I never saw it myself, but they have mentioned it in articles. From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Martin Baxter Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 12:58 PM To: SciFiNoir2 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Survivors? Tracey, I really don't remember the original. If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director? -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: tdlists@ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:53:51 -0800 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Survivors? OK here is the other thing, with all the end of the world, survivor shows, etc on TV the movies that have been on forever, somebody in the group of characters would know that driving aimlessly is nuts. Where are they driving to. I know the Black guy is motivated to drive far away by his unknown back story - he is probably connected
[scifinoir2] Re: Survivors?
we have a pretty good cross section of folks that post. I think we might be lacking a few skillsets but with books and hard work we could make a go. I'm pretty well versed in agriculture and could handle the basics of growing food, animal based agriculture and have even milked a cow or three. I've slaughtered and procesed my own meat so that wouldn't scare me. I know which end of the hammer to swing and could be semi-handy if pressed into service. I also know my way around a lab setting pretty darn well so manufacturing biodiesel and the like would be up my alley as well. Unfortunately I've gotten lazy and haven't used my more physical skillsets for a while. I guess i'd have to come out of retirement. Any pilots on the list? How about some mechanically inclined people? Medical professionals? Anyone know how to set up an off the grid solar or wind power system? --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@... wrote: I hate reality tv, but maybe this would be good. How do you think we would do as a survivor group? -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of B Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:23 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? I liked The Colony but they were too competent. Their group had engineers, a couple of scientists, a mechanic, a doctor, a nurse and two handymen. The only deadweight they had was a personal trainer/martial arts instructor who happened to be a hard worker. It's still pretty fun to watch. When they had to interact with other survivors made for good tv. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Tracey de Morsella tdlists@ wrote: You make a good defense. And as I said, despite ALLL :-) my pet peeves, I have not given up on it. Even quietly, the characters are poorly motivated. Some of my favorite shows had mediocre starts, so I will get off my they're running around with their heads cut off' meme. :-). Also I recognize that I have a different profile than the average person. I'm a natural planner, I believe we are in the midst of peak oil, I'm a professional treehugger, and I hang around a lot of scientist and techies. . So, while I know, I would be loosing my mind (likely curled up into a ball moaning incoherently), it would not be in my nature to drive aimlessly away from my base without a plan. I will look for the colony. Is it any good? I think we would kick as a group, but would supper from serious tech gadget withdrawal. Before the Internet, I hoarded books and lived in the library. Thus my inclination to raid books and libraries as I mentioned before -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of B Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 1:45 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? I haven't seen the original either. I've seen the first three episodes and the crew starts to wise up pretty quickly. I think Martin hit the nail on the head that seeing 99% of humanity die would throw most folks into a deep depression. The doctor seems shell shocked but I imagine she's been on the frontlines since the beginning and by the time we meet them she's probably seen enough death to break even the toughest person. Survivors is firmly in the British Quiet Apocolypse genre. They play very different than the American stories in the same genre. Americans would have handled this so differently it would have been a completely different show. It would have looked like Jericho crossed with Zombieland with even more guns. In a post-Katrina world I think an American version of this show would look drastically different. BTW did anyone see the Discovery Channel's The Colony? They were a bit too skilled and competent but it was a fun show. This reminds me of a game/scenario posted on another forum about when the stuff hits the fan. It would be interesting to see how SciFiNoir would gameplan a post-disaster event using their skills, materials and talents. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Martin Baxter truthseeker013@ wrote: I VAGUELY remember sitting down in front of the TV to watch it on PBS, but that's about it. Wonder if Hulu might have it... nope. :-( If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director? -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: tdlists@ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:00:40 -0800 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Survivors? I never saw it myself, but they have mentioned
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors?
I can understand power plants like a nuclear plant, but power plants like Hoover dam could run for some time until there are failures of the turbines. On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 11:58 AM, B Smith daikaij...@yahoo.com wrote: Give it an episode or two and everything you guys mentioned will start to be answered. This was an intro episode and they spent more time introducing characters than getting to the nuts and bolts of survival. The survivors we have met so far are by an large urbanites who are pretty clueless about how stuff works. They kept thinking the government would get it's act together and establish some order but that all went down the tubes. I think that actually helped me enjoy the show. In the aftermath of a disaster this size people like Greg would be few and far between. BTW they initially thought that 10% of the population would be immune but it turned out to be less than 1%. England would have about 500,000 people scattered around post virus. The show is set in the Manchester area which has a roughly comparable population to Denver, Cleveland or pre-Katrina New Orleans. So that leaves roughly 25,000 people alive in that area. Someone mentioned going to London and Greg told them it was a bad idea. So as bad as things were where they were it was far better than London. As far as the power issue I was reading up on it and a catastrophic failure of the power grid can happen in less than a day if the plants aren't properly monitored, fueled, etc. If some of the powerplants failed early on it could have a cascading effect and end up taking down the entire grid. Imagine a country full of accidents like gas station explosion and it would make sense why they didn't have power. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... wrote: Another thing about the show that bugged me was who would allow their families and the rest of the country to die in order to keep a secret for the government or company? On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 12:44 AM, Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... wrote: Solar panels, windmills and batteries would be the first thing I grab after securing everything else. It would be nice to watch a movie once in a while. Your husband is correct about grabbing books on how to do things. You will definitely need all of that info. On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 11:11 PM, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@... wrote: Electric is going to go too. It they got a diesel they could make fuel from cooking waste and tons of cooking oil let in all the stores. (Treehugger in the house). I like your idea of going to Buckingham palace. I was telling my husband that I would stay in London an look for one of the old mansions that they used to build in the center of town that usually get turned into museums. Buckingham palace will do just fine. What is driving me crazy is that people who see no people are so willing to leave each other when they may not see anyone for ages. I will watch it, but character motivation in this thing sucks. My husband said he would go around to hoard tools as over times they would become scarce. I said I would raid libraries and books stores so I could get a community of people learning critical skills for survival. Medicine, construction, engineering, etc. I also would go after seeds for planting veggies and fruits. What would be the first thing you would go after once you secured the palace J *From:* scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Mr. Worf *Sent:* Monday, February 15, 2010 10:41 PM *To:* scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* Re: [scifinoir2] Survivors? Yea that was a bit stupid. I didn't understand why water and power cut off only after 3 days. That made no sense to me at all. Another was no one thought of walking over to the toyota dealer and taking a new prius running on electric power instead of worrying about gas. I can understand that after everyone dying off it would make sense that people would be a little dazed for a while until reality starts to set in. Only the black guy took the time to grab supplies and a good vehicle that can drive off road. If I were them I would go to Buckingham palace. It has tons of animals and veggies. Plus lots of safety zones and large weapons cache. On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 10:03 PM, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@... wrote: Its passable, but I’m underwhelmed. Plus, I get the idea that they said 10% of the population would survive. That a great deal more than the sparseness of people that we are seeing. Additionally, people are not really responding in a way consistent how I think some would respond to Armageddon.. Other than the Black guy and finally the woman, people are aimless with no indication of coming up with a
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors?
You brought up a lot of good points. Why didn't anyone on the show have face masks? (we couldn't see their lovely faces I guess?) This show reminded me of The Stand and a couple other similar movies. If there is no government money is meaningless. On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 12:29 PM, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com wrote: The 1% fixes a lot. I did not have a problem with the power going out. They were having blackouts and brownouts before the government fell. Cell phones were not working and the networks went down. So it's not surprise that the Grid would be the first to go. Here in the US, it would have gone soon. The GRID is in sad shape.That is why I thought the use of an electric car was out of the question. At best converting cars to biodiesel is their best bet, but long-term, I think they need to look at horses as another form of viable transport along with biodiesel using cooking oil. I agree that people like the Black guy are rare, but what about the doctor. Doctors who work in hospitals around the world train for emergencies, yet she left the hospital without even a pocketbook or a first aid kit. Hospitals are equipped with emergency generators too. Most people would be clueless, but would they drive around aimlessly?I do not think anyone who has managed a project, a committee, put on a school play, owned a small business, or worked as a mid-level manager would drive around aimlessly for days or think the best option would be to meet people and abandon them, because we are going to find more. I do not think the average person is wired that way. For instance, I get the woman wanting to find her son. If he has her genes, he may have survived. She also had not yet figured out that there was not government, but I do not get the man, who had a clue about how things were going to be so easily letting her go. People cannot survive alone. The guy from Kuwait driving around for days with no plan for even getting food. The criminal grabbing money. What for? Would everybody be clueless? Despite my complaints, I kind of liked it, so I was not going to abandon it, but the characters' motivation still irks me -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of B Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 11:59 AM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? Give it an episode or two and everything you guys mentioned will start to be answered. This was an intro episode and they spent more time introducing characters than getting to the nuts and bolts of survival. The survivors we have met so far are by an large urbanites who are pretty clueless about how stuff works. They kept thinking the government would get it's act together and establish some order but that all went down the tubes.. I think that actually helped me enjoy the show. In the aftermath of a disaster this size people like Greg would be few and far between. BTW they initially thought that 10% of the population would be immune but it turned out to be less than 1%. England would have about 500,000 people scattered around post virus. The show is set in the Manchester area which has a roughly comparable population to Denver, Cleveland or pre-Katrina New Orleans. So that leaves roughly 25,000 people alive in that area. Someone mentioned going to London and Greg told them it was a bad idea. So as bad as things were where they were it was far better than London. As far as the power issue I was reading up on it and a catastrophic failure of the power grid can happen in less than a day if the plants aren't properly monitored, fueled, etc. If some of the powerplants failed early on it could have a cascading effect and end up taking down the entire grid. Imagine a country full of accidents like gas station explosion and it would make sense why they didn't have power. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... wrote: Another thing about the show that bugged me was who would allow their families and the rest of the country to die in order to keep a secret for the government or company? On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 12:44 AM, Mr. Worf hellomahog...@... wrote: Solar panels, windmills and batteries would be the first thing I grab after securing everything else. It would be nice to watch a movie once in a while. Your husband is correct about grabbing books on how to do things. You will definitely need all of that info. On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 11:11 PM, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@... wrote: Electric is going to go too. It they got a diesel they could make fuel from cooking waste and tons of cooking oil let in all the stores. (Treehugger in the house). I like your idea of going to Buckingham palace. I was telling my husband that I would stay in London an look for one of the old mansions
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors?
I had some EMT training, and a little electrical skill. All of those skills as boyscouts (or girlscouts) could come in handy for the survivors. Has anyone seen the PBS series called the 1870s house? They had a few different series that were interesting from different points in time. One was as if they were colonizing Virginia in the 1600s, another was 1800s, another 1920s rural house etc. All were interesting and showed volunteers how difficult it was to live life in that time period. Another show on Discovery placed people out in the woods in Alaska with little supplies to survive for a year. Very interesting stuff. On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 2:53 PM, B Smith daikaij...@yahoo.com wrote: we have a pretty good cross section of folks that post. I think we might be lacking a few skillsets but with books and hard work we could make a go. I'm pretty well versed in agriculture and could handle the basics of growing food, animal based agriculture and have even milked a cow or three. I've slaughtered and procesed my own meat so that wouldn't scare me. I know which end of the hammer to swing and could be semi-handy if pressed into service. I also know my way around a lab setting pretty darn well so manufacturing biodiesel and the like would be up my alley as well. Unfortunately I've gotten lazy and haven't used my more physical skillsets for a while. I guess i'd have to come out of retirement. Any pilots on the list? How about some mechanically inclined people? Medical professionals? Anyone know how to set up an off the grid solar or wind power system? --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@... wrote: I hate reality tv, but maybe this would be good. How do you think we would do as a survivor group? -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of B Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:23 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? I liked The Colony but they were too competent. Their group had engineers, a couple of scientists, a mechanic, a doctor, a nurse and two handymen. The only deadweight they had was a personal trainer/martial arts instructor who happened to be a hard worker. It's still pretty fun to watch. When they had to interact with other survivors made for good tv. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Tracey de Morsella tdlists@ wrote: You make a good defense. And as I said, despite ALLL :-) my pet peeves, I have not given up on it. Even quietly, the characters are poorly motivated. Some of my favorite shows had mediocre starts, so I will get off my they're running around with their heads cut off' meme. :-). Also I recognize that I have a different profile than the average person. I'm a natural planner, I believe we are in the midst of peak oil, I'm a professional treehugger, and I hang around a lot of scientist and techies. . So, while I know, I would be loosing my mind (likely curled up into a ball moaning incoherently), it would not be in my nature to drive aimlessly away from my base without a plan. I will look for the colony. Is it any good? I think we would kick as a group, but would supper from serious tech gadget withdrawal. Before the Internet, I hoarded books and lived in the library. Thus my inclination to raid books and libraries as I mentioned before -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of B Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 1:45 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Survivors? I haven't seen the original either. I've seen the first three episodes and the crew starts to wise up pretty quickly. I think Martin hit the nail on the head that seeing 99% of humanity die would throw most folks into a deep depression. The doctor seems shell shocked but I imagine she's been on the frontlines since the beginning and by the time we meet them she's probably seen enough death to break even the toughest person. Survivors is firmly in the British Quiet Apocolypse genre. They play very different than the American stories in the same genre. Americans would have handled this so differently it would have been a completely different show. It would have looked like Jericho crossed with Zombieland with even more guns. In a post-Katrina world I think an American version of this show would look drastically different. BTW did anyone see the Discovery Channel's The Colony? They were a bit too skilled and competent but it was a fun show. This reminds me of a game/scenario posted on another forum about when the stuff hits the fan. It would be interesting to see how SciFiNoir would gameplan a post-disaster event using their skills, materials and talents
