RE: [scots-l] Was Burns a racist?
oh, ok. the part where he quoted from my post had me confused. bob Perhaps this unnatural leaping is a clue that Ian was not responding to your message, but to things he has heard elsewhere? Aye, tis at tha! Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Was Burns a racist?
jwa wrote: oh, ok. the part where he quoted from my post had me confused. bob It's very easy to get confused as to who said what when there is a thread with lot's of posts and quoting like this one on Burns. Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
RE: [scots-l] Was Burns a racist?
ian doth sayest: An this thin fowk sais aboot freemasons bein racists is shite, th California even al gore would have a hard time making the leap from my statement explaining that burn's "a man's a man.." is referring to the egalitarianism he experienced within freemasonry to the above. bob -Original Message- From: Ian Adkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 8:52 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [scots-l] Was Burns a racist? Whit're ye oan aboot? A wisna flamin oniebodie. Awa an get yer paranoid gland luikt at, A think it's overactiv innat. COLONEL IAN J. L. ADKINS - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Crown Malt Inspector Provost of the Village of Dunroamin Invernesshire, Scotland The Angry Scotsmen's Internet Asylum http://www.cyberhub.co.uk Blackmill Networks, Limited http://www.blackmill.net - Original Message - From: jwa [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 1:17 PM Subject: RE: [scots-l] Was Burns a racist? you should maybe like _read_ the post before you flame the sender. bob A'm fain o th freemasons' staun fer democracie, egalitarianism, an honour. An this thin fowk sais aboot freemasons bein racists is shite, th California societie boasts huge nummers o Hispanics an Asians. Sae A'd jyne them gin they'd hae me. Bit A'd be happier gin they wis mair open tae th participation o women, even in their ain lodges. COLONEL IAN J. L. ADKINS - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Crown Malt Inspector Provost of the Village of Dunroamin Invernesshire, Scotland The Angry Scotsmen's Internet Asylum http://www.cyberhub.co.uk Blackmill Networks, Limited http://www.blackmill.net - Original Message - From: jwa [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 4:44 PM Subject: RE: [scots-l] Was Burns a racist? -Original Message- From: Rob MacKillop [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 5:48 AM To: scots-l Subject: [scots-l] Was Burns a racist? I must have got out of the wrong side of bed this morning... Was Burns a racist? Just before his Kilmarnock edition came out - his first collection of poems - he hoped that the money from it would be enough to start a new life in Jamaica as a 'Negro-driver', a slave owner. Was it a case of, 'A man's a man for a that - exept negroes'? Did he my dad tells me that the man who's a man is a freemason. that is, a mason has no social rank. dukes and knights and the lowest apprentice or beggar are all "brother" in the lodge. it doesn't apply to "others", or to women either, for that matter. Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
RE: [scots-l] Was Burns a racist?
you should maybe like _read_ the post before you flame the sender. bob A'm fain o th freemasons' staun fer democracie, egalitarianism, an honour. An this thin fowk sais aboot freemasons bein racists is shite, th California societie boasts huge nummers o Hispanics an Asians. Sae A'd jyne them gin they'd hae me. Bit A'd be happier gin they wis mair open tae th participation o women, even in their ain lodges. COLONEL IAN J. L. ADKINS - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Crown Malt Inspector Provost of the Village of Dunroamin Invernesshire, Scotland The Angry Scotsmen's Internet Asylum http://www.cyberhub.co.uk Blackmill Networks, Limited http://www.blackmill.net - Original Message - From: jwa [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 4:44 PM Subject: RE: [scots-l] Was Burns a racist? -Original Message- From: Rob MacKillop [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 5:48 AM To: scots-l Subject: [scots-l] Was Burns a racist? I must have got out of the wrong side of bed this morning... Was Burns a racist? Just before his Kilmarnock edition came out - his first collection of poems - he hoped that the money from it would be enough to start a new life in Jamaica as a 'Negro-driver', a slave owner. Was it a case of, 'A man's a man for a that - exept negroes'? Did he my dad tells me that the man who's a man is a freemason. that is, a mason has no social rank. dukes and knights and the lowest apprentice or beggar are all "brother" in the lodge. it doesn't apply to "others", or to women either, for that matter. Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Was Burns a racist?
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Derek Hoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I played in a show several years ago about his life (sponsored by the Post Office :) It is crying out to be turned into a screenplay. Incidentally, there is a Scottish country dance called Indian Peter's Reel, devised by the late John Bowie Dickson and published in Dunedin Dances, book 3. Anselm -- Anselm Lingnau . [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Motif is] such a PIG on memory AND cpu. Kind of like having an elephant as a house pet. -- Cary Petterborg Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Was Burns a racist?
On Tue, 16 Jan 2001 22:37:15 +, David Kilpatrick wrote: Buchan's note implies that it might well have involved ANY children, of ANY families. Given the strong family ties present in any town, even as big as Aberdeen, and the propensity of families for direct revenge it seems unlikely that the kidnappers would have preyed on their neighbours I have little knowledge of the system and, in fact, it varied considerably. My understanding is that the indentured servitude concept was one of contract, not commonly understood slavery. One voluntarily sold oneself into the system - often for a relatively short period. The usual reason cited was merely for passage-money from some impoverished European (although most commonly Scots or Irish) area. The period would be a few years. Larger sums might be needed, however and result in 20 years' servitude. Indentured servants were not chattel slaves, however and the servant had civil rights. As well the right to freedom and whatever separation wealth he was entitled to by, and at the end of the contract. The master might treat ISs poorly (picture Dickensian) but did not have total authority. Picture something more akin to Biblical slavery than US South. The system of chattel slavery used there was a weird abomination - dysfunctional and more severe than even ancient Rome or the like. Slavery is generally a socially regulated system, guaranteeing the slave certain (if limited) rights and dignity reasonable treatment. It was always a form of job. Generally similar to the serf system. What makes the US system so famous (and typically thought of as the standard) is it's concept of slaves as _property_ (chattel) rather than people. Biblical slaves in Hebrew territory were entitled to the same rules as any other - no work on Sabbath, etc. US slaves had the same rights as a piece of wood - none. Horses had better treatment by social convention. Obviously, many owners acted more or less rationally within the system and provided good treatment for loyalty and hard work. But it wasn't required. I think only the Arab concept came close as to property, but even there slaves were (are) humans with souls and expected to have minimal good treatment. The Brit Empire didn't end slavery until some 20 years before the US (but continued slave trade until ended by the US) and Spain until 20 years later. But British Caribbean slavery was not chattel slavery. Slaves had rights and (at least in Jamaica that I know of) Sundays off. On Sunday, slaves were free to work for themselves on their own property and personally own the fruits (literally) of their labor. That profit was from time to time used to purchase their own freedom. I offer all this bull just to set some background and make no value judgement on the systems or Burns. It would not surprise me to learn of endless abuses of the system and/or new, supressed history of it. The Ency. Brit (a handy but not a terriffic source) says: Indentured labour, one form of contract labour, was common in North America in colonial times. Its subjects were western European (mainly British) males and females. Some of the contracts were similar to apprenticeships, while the terms of others were harsh--usually imposed on criminals whose sentences were commuted if they agreed to colonial indenture. The indenture of Chinese and Indian labourers, who were commonly called coolies, was associated with European imperialism. Contract labour is still found among migrant workers. A U.S. law of 1951 permitted the importation of agricultural workers from Mexico under contract, specifying that such importation would be subject to governmental supervision. And in that regard: -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- - I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida Boycott South Carolina! http://www.naacp.org/communications/press_releases/SCEconomic2.asp Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Was Burns a racist?
Was Burns a racist? Just before his Kilmarnock edition came out - his first collection of poems - he hoped that the money from it would be enough to start a new life in Jamaica as a 'Negro-driver', a slave owner. Was it a case of, 'A man's a man for a that - exept negroes'? Did he change his mind when he saw the slave ship in Dundee harbour, which inspired his 'Slave's Lament'? Or was he merely _playing_ at being the great egalitarian? Was the slave ship anything to do with negroes? Viz. Peter Buchan's extensive notes in his Songs and Ballads of North East Scotland on the trade in Gaelic speaking Scottish slaves, children rounded up by the burgesses of the port towns and shipped to the Americas for cash. Not in the 1780s - the American war stopped this practice for a while. (It was never exactly slavery, more a very harsh form of indenture - people who entered into it would have done so in the expectation of being released from it in a few years). "Rounding up" isn't exactly what happened - the trade, at its peak, was in people fleeing from famine, who made their own way to the coast and signed up for any ship that would take them; not very different from the current trade in Hispanic illegal immigrants in the US. And Dundee was not a likely port of shipment for Highlanders - most went to the west coast. Also, the Slave's Lament is explicitly about an African. I'm sure many lowlanders like Burns were unaware of this trade. It had been described in a book published in Edinburgh while Burns was there, Knox's "A View of the British Empire". And Highland emigration was the subject of Henry Erskine's poem "The Emigrant"; Burns would have known Erskine well at the period when he was writing it, and Erskine must have known of the trade in indentured labour. So, Burns must have known of this. : But I never considered that folks would go BACK to the old world! I guess : you'd be inclined to, if you were nothing better than a slave here. Most of the Highlanders who left as indentured labour sided with the British in the War of Independence. Many were deported by the US after it, and ended up back in Scotland even more destitute than when they started out. I don't think many returned voluntarily. + OK, I've found Buchan's notes on the slave trade to Virginia, and the + offending city is not Inverness but Aberdeen. There is a lengthy story + about a man who was kidnapped as a child but made his way back - Peter + Wilkinson - and was treated extremely badly. Peter Williamson, aka "Indian Peter", who went on to set up a postal service and published the first postal directory of Edinburgh. See Kay's "Edinburgh Portraits", or pretty much any book about 18th century Edinburgh, he was a very well-known character. He turned into an obnoxious Tory prat in later life. === http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/ === Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Was Burns a racist?
Jack Campin wrote: Peter Williamson, aka "Indian Peter", who went on to set up a postal service and published the first postal directory of Edinburgh. See Kay's "Edinburgh Portraits", or pretty much any book about 18th century Edinburgh, he was a very well-known character. He turned into an obnoxious Tory prat in later life. Do I take it, basically, that Peter Buchan's notes to his Ballads in 1828 are as badly researched as they are badly written? Williamson's story, and Buchan's notes, bear hallmarks of exaggeration and maybe the magistrates of Aberdeen were quite right to burn his book. I am completely open to re-evaluate both Peter Buchan and in turn David Buchan's 'Ballad and the Folk' thesis. The whole thing strikes me as a tangle of misinformation and personally biased opinions. Nigel Gatherer probably has the best approach - go back to the newspaper cuttings of the day where possible, and believe nothing in books. David -- Icon magazines: http://www.freelancephotographer.co.uk/ Music CDs and tracks: http://www.mp3.com/DavidKilpatrick Personal website: http://www.maxwellplace.demon.co.uk/pandemonium/ Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Was Burns a racist?
David asked: Do I take it, basically, that Peter Buchan's notes to his Ballads in 1828 are as badly researched as they are badly written? Williamson's story, and Buchan's notes, bear hallmarks of exaggeration and maybe the magistrates of Aberdeen were quite right to burn his book. Peter Williamson sued the magistrates of Aberdeen after this and won his case if I remember correctly (I wasn't actually there). With the cash he got he opened a 'coffee house' in Edinburgh, which was considered a bit like a 'coffee house' in Amsterdam nowadays. He was a hell of a man, and no doubt exaggerated, but I don't the think the basic facts about him being lifted from the quay in Aberdeen as a child (where he was probably left) and going through some remarkable exploits in America are in any doubt? He had a string of inventions, including the first postal service, although I think he got it a bit wrong by charging the recipient not the sender. He also designed a machine to allow you to walk from Edinburgh over to Fife, along the sea bed. It was a big box with portholes to look out of, and things for your feet to go in so you could walk. I played in a show several years ago about his life (sponsored by the Post Office :) It is crying out to be turned into a screenplay. Always thought Robin Williams would suit the role. And he has such a good Scots accent :) Derek Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Was Burns a racist?
In a message dated 1/16/01 3:09:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In Maryland, at least, they are beautifully indexed, so you're not hunting needles in haystacks looking for reference to your folks. I'm in Maryland, but my Grandfather lived most of his life in Virginia, so I guess I'll have to look there. Thanks for the idea. --Cynthia Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Was Burns a racist?
Are you really comparing being a Negro-driver to working for a brokerage firm? That latter might be closer to being an exiseman. But a slave owner? OK, maybe you were only kidding... Rob I was kidding... though as I think about it now it's not entirely off-base, since in the context of Burns' times the slave trade and slave agriculture were for many people just another form of business. And I do think people in need find it easier to consider actions they find immoral when people around them find those actions normal and acceptable. I suppose I would rather think of Burns that way than as a simple hypocrite who exploited a moment of pathos to make "The Slave's Lament." Susan Susan Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Was Burns a racist?
Was the slave ship anything to do with negroes? All the comments about Gaelic slaves are really interesting and I hope to read more about them on this List. Keep them coming. However, I orginally asked about Burns the 'Negro-driver' - no Gaels mentioned there, nor in his 'Slaves Lament' which is about a slave from Senegal. I think Burns was typical of his time. Scotland was very poor, Burns himself obviously found it difficult to make ends meet, and a life as a Negro-driver in Jamaica was certainly an option which many embraced, whether they thought it moral or not. I have a picture of Burns in my study, play his songs, read his poems, but do not deify him as others do. He was a man, and therefore fallable. If he really is our national poet, we need to see him as he really was, the good and the bad. He may have thought, in an idealised moment, that slavery was wrong, but he obviously was prepared to accept it and engage himself in its practices had his poems failed to sell. Rob Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Was Burns a racist?
In a message dated 1/16/01 4:28:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: He may have thought, in an idealised moment, that slavery was wrong, but he obviously was prepared to accept it and engage himself in its practices had his poems failed to sell. Reminds one of Thomas Jefferson. --Cynthia Cathcart Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Was Burns a racist?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: whether they decided to stay or go home once freed Now this is a piece of the puzzle we had lost! My Grandfather's grandparents must have (might have?) gone back to Scotland. 'cause the thing that has confused me is how his grandparents were here, yet he was born in Scotland and came to America with his parents when he was 8 years old. And they headed straight to farming. It makes me wonder if the land was held onto somehow, and his parents returned to that same land? OK, I've found Buchan's notes on the slave trade to Virginia, and the offending city is not Inverness but Aberdeen. There is a lengthy story about a man who was kidnapped as a child but made his way back - Peter Wilkinson - and was treated extremely badly. Unfortunately my book is an 1828 original edition and I can't stick it in a scanner and OCR the text, so I am just going to have to write it all out. It's an incredible story. I am not familiar with Robert Louis Stevenson at all; 'Kidnapped' has nothing to do with this, or does it? We are talking first half of 18th century, Aberdeen, large-scale organised kidnapping of children for export to the plantations of Virginia. The story is told by Buchan as a note to 'The Virginia Maid's Lament', one of the few of his collected ballads which deals with emigration/US matters. David Kilpatrick -- Icon magazines: http://www.freelancephotographer.co.uk/ Music CDs and tracks: http://www.mp3.com/DavidKilpatrick Personal website: http://www.maxwellplace.demon.co.uk/pandemonium/ Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Was Burns a racist?
Susan Tichy wrote: ...or thought in a despairing moment that he would have to do whatever offered itself... much as a musician might contemplate a brokerage firm on a really, really bad day. Are you really comparing being a Negro-driver to working for a brokerage firm? That latter might be closer to being an exiseman. But a slave owner? OK, maybe you were only kidding... Rob Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Was Burns a racist?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Gaelic speaking Scottish slaves, children rounded up by the burgesses of the port towns and shipped to the Americas for cash. This is really interesting to me. My grandfather Ogilvie always told me his grandparents came to this country as indentured servants or sharecroppers, and then he'd snort and say, "which meant SLAVERY!" The deal,as he told it, was that eventually you could purchase yourself, unlike the African slaves. I never have given this much thought...in fact, your brief e-mail here just brought it back to me, I'd have to say this hasn't been in my thoughts for years. I wish the old man was still alive, I'd go back and ask him a ton of questions. Maybe this is why my father, in his geneological research, cannot find a single word on my grandfather's ancestors. All we know is what we remember my grandfather telling us. He always swore he descended directly from the Ogilvies that fought at Culloden. I'm going to have to call my dad and remind him of the "sharecropper" thing. Anyone know any more about this? Is it just coincidence? Any sources? --Cynthia Cathcart Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Was Burns a racist?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Gaelic speaking Scottish slaves, children rounded up by the burgesses of the port towns and shipped to the Americas for cash. This is really interesting to me. My grandfather Ogilvie always told me his grandparents came to this country as indentured servants or sharecroppers, and then he'd snort and say, "which meant SLAVERY!" The deal,as he told it, was that eventually you could purchase yourself, unlike the African slaves. I never have given this much thought...in fact, your brief e-mail here just brought it back to me, I'd have to say this hasn't been in my thoughts for years. I wish the old man was still alive, I'd go back and ask him a ton of questions. Maybe this is why my father, in his geneological research, cannot find a single word on my grandfather's ancestors. All we know is what we remember my grandfather telling us. He always swore he descended directly from the Ogilvies that fought at Culloden. I'm going to have to call my dad and remind him of the "sharecropper" thing. Anyone know any more about this? Is it just coincidence? Any sources? When I have time I will transcribe Buchan's article, which appeared as a two-page footnote in his 1828 book. I think, without going back to the article now, that Inverness was especially feared as the town set up a 'pound' where any gaelic speaking or tinker children caught by a special employed slave catcher were imprisoned before being sold on to the ships. Adults were also at risk, but the town apparently passed a by-law or statue locally - I don't much about the powers of the burgh in the late 1600s and early 1700s when this presumably happened. This made the transportation of any children found after dark unaccompanied official. Apparently it was a law augmented by informal raids on families to uplift children who WERE accompanied, and the discrimation was strongly against native Highlanders. David -- Icon magazines: http://www.freelancephotographer.co.uk/ Music CDs and tracks: http://www.mp3.com/DavidKilpatrick Personal website: http://www.maxwellplace.demon.co.uk/pandemonium/ Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Was Burns a racist?
Cynthia wrote: This is really interesting to me. My grandfather Ogilvie always told me his grandparents came to this country as indentured servants or sharecroppers, and then he'd snort and say, "which meant SLAVERY!" The deal,as he told it, was that eventually you could purchase yourself, unlike the African slaves. I know nuttin' 'bout birlin, but this I know! Indentured servants served a specified time, during which, yes, they were treated as property that could be bought, sold, willed, or claimed for debt. At the end of that time, if they were still alive, they were freed and usually received a plot of land -- unsurveyed, unturned, and sometimes difficult land, but land. Their living conditions, survival rates, and later fates varied enormously depending on where and when they arrived here, who bought them (they were generally auctioned on arrival), and whether they decided to stay or go home once freed. Some of the servants were prisoners of war, some were debtors, and some signed up voluntarily when things were bad at home. They came from all parts of Britain, though obviously different people came at different times. I know a lot about this in in 17th century, as I'm descended from several Scots prisoners who were transported to Maryland, via Barbados, after Cromwell invaded Scotland. (The two I know most about were from Perthshire and Aberdeenshire.) About half of them died in their first few months, from malaria and other diseases. Of that generation, the ones who survived indenture did quite well for themselves afterwards -- some (including mine) got prosperous enough to oppress other people, like other indentured people, Indians, and African slaves. Life's a mess, eh? Sorry I don't know much about it in the mid-18th century, if that's when your folks came over or were sent. In my part of the world it was dying out by then--chattel slavery was far more profitable. Susan I never have given this much thought...in fact, your brief e-mail here just brought it back to me, I'd have to say this hasn't been in my thoughts for years. I wish the old man was still alive, I'd go back and ask him a ton of questions. Maybe this is why my father, in his geneological research, cannot find a single word on my grandfather's ancestors. All we know is what we remember my grandfather telling us. He always swore he descended directly from the Ogilvies that fought at Culloden. I'm going to have to call my dad and remind him of the "sharecropper" thing. Anyone know any more about this? Is it just coincidence? Any sources? --Cynthia Cathcart Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
