Re: CS>Silver Puppy "ppm" numbers
Brilliant as always OdeDee Sent from my iPad > On 12 Dec 2015, at 11:55, Ode Coyote wrote: > > Once you hit the solubility limits of silver ions in water at around 13 PPM, > you go into a supersaturation area where environmental variables... trace > impurities, temperature etc. play a greater and greater role in 'kicking' off > a non conductive particle formation cascade reaction. > 'What' is in the water often counts more than how much..and no way to know > what, what is. > The variables connected with particle formation in a super saturated > solution make meters more and more fraught with error the further past the > saturation point you go because meters don't register anything BUT ionic > content. > > A meter reading past around 15 uS just doesn't mean very much. > > So, up to around 10-12 uS a meter says something fairly reliable but getting > there with current 'ramp up to control' on an exponential curve, starting who > knows where, making time a HUGE variable with the slightest difference in > initial water conductivity...well...using a clock just doesn't work. > But once the current control circuits stabilizes the current, ion emission > rate is predictably linear using Faraday calculations and a clock. > > You know how much silver entered the water..but what Faraday doesn't say is > how much *stayed* in the water. > > If there is very little on the bottom, most of it did. > > But > The stronger you make it, the more densely packed uncharged particles are and > the more likely they are to encounter each other and agglomerate into larger > particles, forming crystals around a seed nucleus and getting big enough to > settle out. > > Ode > >> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 1:59 PM, Jerry Durand >> wrote: >> I suspect the main benefit of the high ppm solutions is to the bank account >> of the seller. I also suspect they use pretty high current or maybe >> sputtering to get that much silver in there. >> >> Or, they just lie about the number. >> >> >> Out of curiosity, I ran a pint batch with the Silver Puppy set to 10 ticks >> on the manual mode. I started with distilled water (0-1 uS by my meter) and >> the next day when it was done it only read 14 uS. I left it sit for a few >> days and then it read 12 uS. Seems awfully low for running that long. >> >> A normal auto run on the Silver Puppy gives a reading of 10 uS. >> >>> On 12/11/2015 03:32 AM, Ode Coyote wrote: >>> But since the physical properties of silver and water limit how much silver >>> will STAY in the water [solubility limits], relatively all of that 42,000 >>> will be sludge on the bottom as silver hydroxide and silver oxidewasted. >>> Some suspend the garbage in the water by making the water thicker, like old >>> used dirty motor oil can hold a lot of dirt >>> ...MSP Mild Silver Protein can be 50 or even 1000+ PPM, big chunks of >>> silver suspended in jello. >>> Lots of silver, little benefit. >>> >>> Ode >> >> -- >> Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com >> tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 >> >
Re: CS>Silver Puppy "ppm" numbers
I'm using the generator from the Silver Lungs sight. Does anyone have an opinion about the quality of silver it makes? I start w distilled water with a 0 particle reading and run a batch on "long" cycle (2 hrs?) and get an 8-10 Reading when auto timed out. Thanks Theresa Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 12, 2015, at 5:55 AM, Ode Coyote wrote: > > Once you hit the solubility limits of silver ions in water at around 13 PPM, > you go into a supersaturation area where environmental variables... trace > impurities, temperature etc. play a greater and greater role in 'kicking' off > a non conductive particle formation cascade reaction. > 'What' is in the water often counts more than how much..and no way to know > what, what is. > The variables connected with particle formation in a super saturated > solution make meters more and more fraught with error the further past the > saturation point you go because meters don't register anything BUT ionic > content. > > A meter reading past around 15 uS just doesn't mean very much. > > So, up to around 10-12 uS a meter says something fairly reliable but getting > there with current 'ramp up to control' on an exponential curve, starting who > knows where, making time a HUGE variable with the slightest difference in > initial water conductivity...well...using a clock just doesn't work. > But once the current control circuits stabilizes the current, ion emission > rate is predictably linear using Faraday calculations and a clock. > > You know how much silver entered the water..but what Faraday doesn't say is > how much *stayed* in the water. > > If there is very little on the bottom, most of it did. > > But > The stronger you make it, the more densely packed uncharged particles are and > the more likely they are to encounter each other and agglomerate into larger > particles, forming crystals around a seed nucleus and getting big enough to > settle out. > > Ode > >> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 1:59 PM, Jerry Durand >> wrote: >> I suspect the main benefit of the high ppm solutions is to the bank account >> of the seller. I also suspect they use pretty high current or maybe >> sputtering to get that much silver in there. >> >> Or, they just lie about the number. >> >> >> Out of curiosity, I ran a pint batch with the Silver Puppy set to 10 ticks >> on the manual mode. I started with distilled water (0-1 uS by my meter) and >> the next day when it was done it only read 14 uS. I left it sit for a few >> days and then it read 12 uS. Seems awfully low for running that long. >> >> A normal auto run on the Silver Puppy gives a reading of 10 uS. >> >>> On 12/11/2015 03:32 AM, Ode Coyote wrote: >>> But since the physical properties of silver and water limit how much silver >>> will STAY in the water [solubility limits], relatively all of that 42,000 >>> will be sludge on the bottom as silver hydroxide and silver oxidewasted. >>> Some suspend the garbage in the water by making the water thicker, like old >>> used dirty motor oil can hold a lot of dirt >>> ...MSP Mild Silver Protein can be 50 or even 1000+ PPM, big chunks of >>> silver suspended in jello. >>> Lots of silver, little benefit. >>> >>> Ode >>> >> >> -- >> Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com >> tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 >> >
Re: CS>Silver Puppy "ppm" numbers
Once you hit the solubility limits of silver ions in water at around 13 PPM, you go into a supersaturation area where environmental variables... trace impurities, temperature etc. play a greater and greater role in 'kicking' off a non conductive particle formation cascade reaction. 'What' is in the water often counts more than how much..and no way to know what, what is. The variables connected with particle formation in a super saturated solution make meters more and more fraught with error the further past the saturation point you go because meters don't register anything BUT ionic content. A meter reading past around 15 uS just doesn't mean very much. So, up to around 10-12 uS a meter says something fairly reliable but getting there with current 'ramp up to control' on an exponential curve, starting who knows where, making time a HUGE variable with the slightest difference in initial water conductivity...well...using a clock just doesn't work. But once the current control circuits stabilizes the current, ion emission rate is predictably linear using Faraday calculations and a clock. You know how much silver entered the water..but what Faraday doesn't say is how much *stayed* in the water. If there is very little on the bottom, most of it did. But The stronger you make it, the more densely packed uncharged particles are and the more likely they are to encounter each other and agglomerate into larger particles, forming crystals around a seed nucleus and getting big enough to settle out. Ode On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 1:59 PM, Jerry Durand wrote: > I suspect the main benefit of the high ppm solutions is to the bank > account of the seller. I also suspect they use pretty high current or > maybe sputtering to get that much silver in there. > > Or, they just lie about the number. > > > Out of curiosity, I ran a pint batch with the Silver Puppy set to 10 ticks > on the manual mode. I started with distilled water (0-1 uS by my meter) > and the next day when it was done it only read 14 uS. I left it sit for a > few days and then it read 12 uS. Seems awfully low for running that long. > > A normal auto run on the Silver Puppy gives a reading of 10 uS. > > On 12/11/2015 03:32 AM, Ode Coyote wrote: > > But since the physical properties of silver and water limit how much > silver will STAY in the water [solubility limits], relatively all of that > 42,000 will be sludge on the bottom as silver hydroxide and silver > oxidewasted. > Some suspend the garbage in the water by making the water thicker, like > old used dirty motor oil can hold a lot of dirt > ...MSP Mild Silver Protein can be 50 or even 1000+ PPM, big chunks of > silver suspended in jello. > Lots of silver, little benefit. > > Ode > > > -- > Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com > tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 > >
Re: CS>Silver Puppy "ppm" numbers
I suspect the main benefit of the high ppm solutions is to the bank account of the seller. I also suspect they use pretty high current or maybe sputtering to get that much silver in there. Or, they just lie about the number. Out of curiosity, I ran a pint batch with the Silver Puppy set to 10 ticks on the manual mode. I started with distilled water (0-1 uS by my meter) and the next day when it was done it only read 14 uS. I left it sit for a few days and then it read 12 uS. Seems awfully low for running that long. A normal auto run on the Silver Puppy gives a reading of 10 uS. On 12/11/2015 03:32 AM, Ode Coyote wrote: > But since the physical properties of silver and water limit how much > silver will STAY in the water [solubility limits], relatively all of > that 42,000 will be sludge on the bottom as silver hydroxide and > silver oxidewasted. > Some suspend the garbage in the water by making the water thicker, > like old used dirty motor oil can hold a lot of dirt > ...MSP Mild Silver Protein can be 50 or even 1000+ PPM, big chunks > of silver suspended in jello. > Lots of silver, little benefit. > > Ode > -- Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886
Re: CS>Silver Puppy "ppm" numbers
But since the physical properties of silver and water limit how much silver will STAY in the water [solubility limits], relatively all of that 42,000 will be sludge on the bottom as silver hydroxide and silver oxidewasted. Some suspend the garbage in the water by making the water thicker, like old used dirty motor oil can hold a lot of dirt ...MSP Mild Silver Protein can be 50 or even 1000+ PPM, big chunks of silver suspended in jello. Lots of silver, little benefit. Ode On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 3:31 AM, Debra & David wrote: > A Faraday calculation of volume/current/time provides the answer. > > The 'puppy has controlled current (about 1 mA at the electrodes) so a > Faraday calculation using current, volume and time can provide an answer. > > In a pint each EXTRA hour adds about 8ppm. In a quart its about 4 ppm per > hour. > > But note that the water has to be conductive. (i.e. if you are using > distilled water you have to have already run the 'puppy in auto mode). > > In a pint, 42,000 ppm would take about 5250 hours. > > David > > > > On 11/12/2015 6:41 PM, silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com wrote: > > Subject: > CS>Silver Puppy "ppm" numbers > From: > Jerry Durand > Date: > 10/12/2015 6:28 AM > To: > "silver-list@eskimo.com" > > I had someone ask me for the "ppm" number if I run the Silver Puppy way > into overtime like 12 hours or so. I know that almost all people are > reading the ppm number off a tds meter that's calibrated for table salt, > getting people to understand calibration is a losing battle. > > I just picked up a batch that's been sitting around for a while and it > reads 14 uSeimens, so for that batch what should I tell them? > > Or do I just do like the eBay marketers and make up a number? "It's 42000 > ppm, it's REALLY good stuff!" :) > > -- > Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com > tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 > > >
CS>Silver Puppy "ppm" numbers
A Faraday calculation of volume/current/time provides the answer. The 'puppy has controlled current (about 1 mA at the electrodes) so a Faraday calculation using current, volume and time can provide an answer. In a pint each EXTRA hour adds about 8ppm. In a quart its about 4 ppm per hour. But note that the water has to be conductive. (i.e. if you are using distilled water you have to have already run the 'puppy in auto mode). In a pint, 42,000 ppm would take about 5250 hours. David On 11/12/2015 6:41 PM, silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com wrote: Subject: CS>Silver Puppy "ppm" numbers From: Jerry Durand Date: 10/12/2015 6:28 AM To: "silver-list@eskimo.com" I had someone ask me for the "ppm" number if I run the Silver Puppy way into overtime like 12 hours or so. I know that almost all people are reading the ppm number off a tds meter that's calibrated for table salt, getting people to understand calibration is a losing battle. I just picked up a batch that's been sitting around for a while and it reads 14 uSeimens, so for that batch what should I tell them? Or do I just do like the eBay marketers and make up a number? "It's 42000 ppm, it's REALLY good stuff!" :) -- Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc.www.interstellar.com tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886
Re: CS>Silver Puppy "ppm" numbers
that's a question everyone struggles with however I have come to an understanding after much deliberating and research... For CS I treat the us figure as the actual PPM. So if you are getting 14us, I would take that as 14ppm. this would show on your meter as 7ppm. I do brew the CS to around 30us sometimes, but to be honest it hits a wall around there, and I do not think its the best stuff. I would keep it to around 12-20us (6-10 ppm). Regards. From: Jerry Durand Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 7:58 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: CS>Silver Puppy "ppm" numbers I had someone ask me for the "ppm" number if I run the Silver Puppy way into overtime like 12 hours or so. I know that almost all people are reading the ppm number off a tds meter that's calibrated for table salt, getting people to understand calibration is a losing battle. I just picked up a batch that's been sitting around for a while and it reads 14 uSeimens, so for that batch what should I tell them? Or do I just do like the eBay marketers and make up a number? "It's 42000 ppm, it's REALLY good stuff!" :) -- Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886
Re: CS>Silver Puppy "ppm" numbers
Hi... have been a member for a few years now and was purchasing my cs from a member who sold cs thru his business website. I am under the impression (from another member's posting)and the fact that I can't access his website any longer that this member isn't selling his cs anylonger? I am sure you long-time members know who I am referring to. His product is wonderfuland I am running low. Anybody else selling their cs? If so, you can private message me if you like.Thanks, Lola ps. I used to buy commercial cs products before finding this site and this wonderful man. Hiscs has totally spoiled me. His product is clear with no 'taste' and is so superior to otc products. - Original Message - From: Jerry Durand To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, 09 Dec 2015 14:58:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: CS>Silver Puppy "ppm" numbers I had someone ask me for the "ppm" number if I run the Silver Puppy way into overtime like 12 hours or so. I know that almost all people are reading the ppm number off a tds meter that's calibrated for table salt, getting people to understand calibration is a losing battle. I just picked up a batch that's been sitting around for a while and it reads 14 uSeimens, so for that batch what should I tell them? Or do I just do like the eBay marketers and make up a number? "It's 42000 ppm, it's REALLY good stuff!" :) -- Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886
CS>Silver Puppy "ppm" numbers
I had someone ask me for the "ppm" number if I run the Silver Puppy way into overtime like 12 hours or so. I know that almost all people are reading the ppm number off a tds meter that's calibrated for table salt, getting people to understand calibration is a losing battle. I just picked up a batch that's been sitting around for a while and it reads 14 uSeimens, so for that batch what should I tell them? Or do I just do like the eBay marketers and make up a number? "It's 42000 ppm, it's REALLY good stuff!" :) -- Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886
