Re: CS[Fwd: [healthfraud] More Bad News for Colloidal Silver]
Leo: The FTC and the FDA have different enforcement policies, and different standards. The FTC will stay away from a company that uses actual and accepted scientific proof of claims being made - as long as ( apparently ) the claims ARE the scientific evidence, and the data is fully disclosed at the same place the claims are being made. If the FTC is not interested in going after the company, it appears that the FDA is far less likely to follow through. In other words, the FTC and the FDA have different ideas on what acceptable claims are. This can be a good thing to know. Jason -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS[Fwd: [healthfraud] More Bad News for Colloidal Silver]
Rick: Your friend is mistaken. ASAP silver has no FDA approval. It has EPA surface disinfectant approval ( so do things like bleach ). If you observe their website very closely, you will see that they are wise in that they appease FTC standards, by a very narrow margin, and they make absolutely no medical claims about their product. Jason - Original Message - From: Rick r...@audioonhold.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 11:24 PM Subject: Re: CS[Fwd: [healthfraud] More Bad News for Colloidal Silver] I have a stock broker who handles some stocks for me. He supposedly is one of the most knowledgeable mining stock brokers in the U.S. He told me about a company called Clifton Mining which has a subsidiary called American Biotech Labs that produces a supposedly FDA approved CS- type solution called ASAP, which has many anti-bacterial properties. You can go read the info about this product: http://www.amsilver.com/ So, apparently the FDA doesn't have a problem with CS, maybe just with the way some people on the web are pushing its benefits. This isn't meant to be a plug for either of the companies listed. It's just some information you might find useful. I have no relationship with amsilver or Clifton Mining. Rick -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSRe[2]: CS[Fwd: [healthfraud] More Bad News for Colloidal Silver]
Thanks for the input- I was unaware. It sounded so good too. oh well. Rick - Original Message - From: Solar so...@dialup.oar.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 3:20 AM Subject: CSRe[2]: CS[Fwd: [healthfraud] More Bad News for Colloidal Silver] Hello Rick, Thursday, February 28, 2002, 1:24:23 AM, you wrote: R I have a stock broker who handles some stocks for me. He supposedly is one R of the most knowledgeable mining stock brokers in the U.S. He told me about R a company called Clifton Mining which has a subsidiary called American R Biotech Labs that produces a supposedly FDA approved CS- type solution R called ASAP, which has many anti-bacterial properties. R You can go read the info about this product: http://www.amsilver.com/ R So, apparently the FDA doesn't have a problem with CS, maybe just with the R way some people on the web are pushing its benefits. R This isn't meant to be a plug for either of the companies listed. It's just R some information you might find useful. I have no relationship with amsilver R or Clifton Mining. R Rick Rick, let us clarify something here that is a common misconception. The ASAP solution is NOT a CS-type solution. It IS COLLOIDAL SILVER. It was originally manufactured on CS Pro Systems Ultra Professional HVAC equipment. The company has seen fit to ripoff Bruce Marx's HVAC generator design by adding multiple units in parallel in a large batch-tank, and adding continual stirring. They then ran out and patented their idea. It seems that MANY people are led to believe that they have some sort of magical solution that is FAR different from CS, and that the solution itself is somehow patented. The people at American Silver seem to be trying to differentiate their product from CS, when in fact, it is CS. It is my personal opinion that these people have a greed driven goal of having THEIR product approved at every level possible, the whole time screaming about how it is different from CS. When they get to that point, I can envision them jumping behind the FDA to get ALL colloidal silver removed from the market, so that they can pretty much have a monopoly! I have no trust whatsoever in these people. To see their patent, visit http://www.delphion.com/ and search for patent number 6,214,299 Anyone familiar with the design of the CS Pro Systems HVAC units will see that this is a ripoff. They even mention Bruce Marx, and the Operation Manual for his HVAC units, in the patent. -- Best regards, Solar -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CS[Fwd: [healthfraud] More Bad News for Colloidal Silver]
On the other hand, I read a report of CS being tested against a spore with a similar cell wall structure to anthrax and it working. Perhaps it was from Brooks. James-Osbourne: Holmes -Original Message- From: Catherine Creel [mailto:ccr...@maine.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 11:04 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject:Re: CS[Fwd: [healthfraud] More Bad News for Colloidal Silver] Hi Leo, you said: Anyone care to comment? FTC CRACKS DOWN ON BOGUS BIOHAZARD TESTS, TREATMENTS The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) has settled enforcement actions against the marketer of a home test kit for anthrax and the purveyor of a colloidal silver product purported to treat anthrax. These companies used inaccurate and unfounded claims to sell peace of mind, J. Howard Beales, director of the FTC's Bureau of Consumer Protection, said Feb. 27. They tried to cash in on consumer anxiety about bioterrorism. Sure. The damn fools shouldn't have been making specious claims. CS has never been tested against B. anthracis. You'll notice that those who did not make claims like this did not get nailed. Regards, Catherine -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CS[Fwd: [healthfraud] More Bad News for Colloidal Silver]
What actually is the process for FDA approval? I don't know, but I have heard it helps to have about $4 million ready to drop. James-Osbourne: Holmes -Original Message- From: Rick [mailto:r...@audioonhold.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 11:54 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject:Re: CS[Fwd: [healthfraud] More Bad News for Colloidal Silver] Catherine: You're right, the website doesn't say anything about the FDA (but the EPA is close, isn't it??). I was looking on a vendor's (of ASAP) site and it stated the following: According to the manufacturer, it has also been approved as an antibiotic in several other countries and is the only silver solution product of this type that has been able to be filed with the FDA for drug approval. The manufacturer has already received approval by the FDA to begin testing of the product in both animals and humans. Note that while the ASAP Solution(r) has received approval by the FDA to begin testing, this does not mean that the FDA will eventually approve this product as an effective antibiotic. Hence, for now, the ASAP Solution(r) is not intended to treat, cure or prevent any disease. Note too that the FDA and government have not evaluated statements on this website (to the best of our knowledge) Again- I personally know nothing about these companies, but I find it at least cautiously optimistic that at least some form of a governmental organization is acknowledging their products potential benefits. I guess you ought to start somewhere. What actually is the process for FDA approval? Do you feel the powers at be will ever allow a CS type solution be approved? Rick -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS[Fwd: [healthfraud] More Bad News for Colloidal Silver]
Hi James, You said: On the other hand, I read a report of CS being tested against a spore with a similar cell wall structure to anthrax and it working. Perhaps it was from Brooks. There is no spore with a similar enough cell wall structure to be able to state that a substance that works on it will work on B anthracis. The closest in structure is B aureus. Virility is about 10% that of B anthracis. Nature Journal had a great article (within the last two months) about science just beginning to understand why B anthracis overwhelms the body so quickly compared to other other spores of similar structure. Regards, Catherine -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CS[Fwd: [healthfraud] More Bad News for Colloidal Silver]
Hi Catherine, Thanks for the good info. Can you send a link to any of that research? James-Osbourne: Holmes -Original Message- From: Catherine Creel [mailto:ccr...@maine.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 8:37 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject:Re: CS[Fwd: [healthfraud] More Bad News for Colloidal Silver] Hi James, You said: On the other hand, I read a report of CS being tested against a spore with a similar cell wall structure to anthrax and it working. Perhaps it was from Brooks. There is no spore with a similar enough cell wall structure to be able to state that a substance that works on it will work on B anthracis. The closest in structure is B aureus. Virility is about 10% that of B anthracis. Nature Journal had a great article (within the last two months) about science just beginning to understand why B anthracis overwhelms the body so quickly compared to other other spores of similar structure. Regards, Catherine -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS[Fwd: [healthfraud] More Bad News for Colloidal Silver]
Hi James, If you go back to materials from the late 1800's and writings about them you will see that only about 10% of B anthracis was virulent. So, chances are very high that the CS at that time was tested against this much less virulent spore. The virulent form of Bacillus anthracis has three known virulence (toxic) factors. They are an antiphagocytic capsule, and two protein exotoxins known as the lethal and edema toxins. The non-virulent anthrax bacteria lacks the antiphagocytic capsule. This means its capsule is not resistant to phagocyte (cleaning) activity. The toxic form of anthrax, with the antiphagocytic capsule, stays in the body and begins the process of releasing the edema toxins and lethal toxins. At this point, toxins that bind to the cells share a protective antigen. This antigen defends the bacteria from the immune system and antibiotics. The capsulr protects the toxins until it releases them into the blood stream. Within minutes, the cells are beginning to be overwhelmed. Hypothesizing that CS can at this point do something relies on a person knowing they need it. With this protection, the toxins build very quickly, overwhelming the body, and are fully capable of causing death within twenty-four hours of the onset of symptoms. Frank Keyes of the Colloidla silver Lab in NJ can talk at length on this. I don't have the time to retrace every step I took to get to this, but I can tell you that it was many hours. I took nothing at face value. I spent countless hours at www.scirus.com search engine, and then countless more looking at historical accounts of The best I can do on the Nature article is recalling that it was within the past two months. If people really want to know, they'll research it as I did. I don't mean that as abruptly as it sounds. It's just that I'm satisfied with what I've done to pursue facts on CS and anthrax and have no need to revisit it - nor does it really matter to me if people choose to not seek the facts themselves as long as they don't misrepresent things to others who can be hurt by it. Regards, Catherine -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CS[Fwd: [healthfraud] More Bad News for Colloidal Silver]
Sure, Leo! Stupidity and greed seem to go hand in hand, don't they? At least that is what it looks like to me. Our silver-list is a people-helping-people list to educate and provide information. I hope Mike never gets one of those official letters aimed at shutting down our list. Namaste: Bob Bartell -Original Message- From: Leo Regehr [mailto:leoel...@telusplanet.net] Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 1:04 AM To: Roger Altman, Colloidal S; Silver List Subject: CS[Fwd: [healthfraud] More Bad News for Colloidal Silver] Anyone care to comment? Leo -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CS[Fwd: [healthfraud] More Bad News for Colloidal Silver]
Anyone care to comment? Leo ---BeginMessage--- From FDAnews Daily Bulletin for February 27, 2002: FTC CRACKS DOWN ON BOGUS BIOHAZARD TESTS, TREATMENTS The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) has settled enforcement actions against the marketer of a home test kit for anthrax and the purveyor of a colloidal silver product purported to treat anthrax. These companies used inaccurate and unfounded claims to sell peace of mind, J. Howard Beales, director of the FTC's Bureau of Consumer Protection, said Feb. 27. They tried to cash in on consumer anxiety about bioterrorism. The FTC enforcement actions are part of a larger probe of internet-based companies marketing bogus products that take advantage of consumers who have grown fearful of bioterrorism. Since mid-November, the FTC has sent 121 warning letters to marketers of bioterrorism-related products discovered during a coordinated surf of the internet by the FTC, the FDA and more than 30 state attorneys general. Beales said that 50 of the 121 warning letters involved products related to the detection or treatment of anthrax. In one action, Vital Living Products and its president, Donald Podrebarac, entered into an agreement to settle charges that they deceptively advertised a do-it-yourself method to detect anthrax bacteria and spores in the air, water and on surfaces. Beales called the claims pure bunk. In the other action, Kris Pletschke, operator of the web site rawhealth.net, signed a consent agreement with the FTC that prohibits him from making deceptive and misleading therapeutic claims for colloidal silver or any other health-related products. Beales said the FTC ordered Pletschke to offer full refunds to all consumers who purchased colloidal silver. - * Eric S. Hoy, Ph.D., SI(ASCP) * Clinical Associate Professor * Department of Medical Laboratory Sciences * The University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center at Dallas * Email: eric@utsouthwestern.edu -- The opinions expressed here are mine alone, do not reflect the opinions of any employer, cost you nothing, and are probably worth what you paid for them. **I may have been born at night, but it wasn't LAST night!** ---End Message---
Re: CS[Fwd: [healthfraud] More Bad News for Colloidal Silver]
Hi Leo, you said: Anyone care to comment? FTC CRACKS DOWN ON BOGUS BIOHAZARD TESTS, TREATMENTS The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) has settled enforcement actions against the marketer of a home test kit for anthrax and the purveyor of a colloidal silver product purported to treat anthrax. These companies used inaccurate and unfounded claims to sell peace of mind, J. Howard Beales, director of the FTC's Bureau of Consumer Protection, said Feb. 27. They tried to cash in on consumer anxiety about bioterrorism. Sure. The damn fools shouldn't have been making specious claims. CS has never been tested against B. anthracis. You'll notice that those who did not make claims like this did not get nailed. Regards, Catherine -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS[Fwd: [healthfraud] More Bad News for Colloidal Silver]
I have a stock broker who handles some stocks for me. He supposedly is one of the most knowledgeable mining stock brokers in the U.S. He told me about a company called Clifton Mining which has a subsidiary called American Biotech Labs that produces a supposedly FDA approved CS- type solution called ASAP, which has many anti-bacterial properties. You can go read the info about this product: http://www.amsilver.com/ So, apparently the FDA doesn't have a problem with CS, maybe just with the way some people on the web are pushing its benefits. This isn't meant to be a plug for either of the companies listed. It's just some information you might find useful. I have no relationship with amsilver or Clifton Mining. Rick -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS[Fwd: [healthfraud] More Bad News for Colloidal Silver]
Hi Rick, So, apparently the FDA doesn't have a problem with CS, maybe just with the way some people on the web are pushing its benefits. The devil's in the details. From the website: February 20, 2002. American Biotech Labs is pleased to announce that the ASAP Solution® has just been granted its first US EPA approval as a hard surface disinfectant. Note it says EPA and that it is approved as a surface disinfectant. Catherine -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS[Fwd: [healthfraud] More Bad News for Colloidal Silver]
Catherine: You're right, the website doesn't say anything about the FDA (but the EPA is close, isn't it??). I was looking on a vendor's (of ASAP) site and it stated the following: According to the manufacturer, it has also been approved as an antibiotic in several other countries and is the only silver solution product of this type that has been able to be filed with the FDA for drug approval. The manufacturer has already received approval by the FDA to begin testing of the product in both animals and humans. Note that while the ASAP Solution® has received approval by the FDA to begin testing, this does not mean that the FDA will eventually approve this product as an effective antibiotic. Hence, for now, the ASAP Solution® is not intended to treat, cure or prevent any disease. Note too that the FDA and government have not evaluated statements on this website (to the best of our knowledge) Again- I personally know nothing about these companies, but I find it at least cautiously optimistic that at least some form of a governmental organization is acknowledging their products potential benefits. I guess you ought to start somewhere. What actually is the process for FDA approval? Do you feel the powers at be will ever allow a CS type solution be approved? Rick -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS[Fwd: [healthfraud] More Bad News for Colloidal Silver]
Hi Rick, You said: What actually is the process for FDA approval? Do you feel the powers at be will ever allow a CS type solution be approved? Anyone can file an application for approval of a product or procedure with the FDA. From there, it gets tougher. http://www.fda.gov/opacom/7approvl.html Do I think they will ever give approval? I have my doubts. Pharmaceutical companies stand to lose too much. Another problem is the lack of agreement and science to support one particular manufacturing process`and effectice ppm. To me, this lack of agreement is the biggest barrier to approval. Regards, Catherine -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS[Fwd: [healthfraud] More Bad News for Colloidal Silver]
Catherine- Thanks for the clarification. Rick - Original Message - From: Catherine Creel ccr...@maine.rr.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 11:19 PM Subject: Re: CS[Fwd: [healthfraud] More Bad News for Colloidal Silver] Hi Rick, You said: What actually is the process for FDA approval? Do you feel the powers at be will ever allow a CS type solution be approved? Anyone can file an application for approval of a product or procedure with the FDA. From there, it gets tougher. http://www.fda.gov/opacom/7approvl.html Do I think they will ever give approval? I have my doubts. Pharmaceutical companies stand to lose too much. Another problem is the lack of agreement and science to support one particular manufacturing process`and effectice ppm. To me, this lack of agreement is the biggest barrier to approval. Regards, Catherine -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
