Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS
url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m61549.html Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS From: Dan Nave Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 20:32:52 Yes, I let it run until a substantial amount of whiskers were on the cathode. Dan And that occurred at 6 ppm? Something doesn't sound right. It might have something to do the the dw. I'm having fits with the same problem. I used WallMart for many years and it gave very consistent results. But they changed their process recently, and the new stuff is completely different. It has a higher initial resistance, which ordinarily indicates less impurities. But old stuff showed a slight rise in cell voltage at the start of the process, then it started to drop. The new stuff starts to drop immediately. I could push the old stuff well beyond the point where it started making whiskers. Eventually the solution would start turning yellow while it was still brewing. A few drops of H2O2 would make it crystal clear, and the salt test showed a very strong dispersion. The new stuff doesn't work the same way. It doesn't show any color even after running for 24 hrs, and the dispersion is not as strong as I would expect. The old stuff would form a black film on the anode that wiped off easily. The new stuff forms a hard, shiny black coat that won't wipe off. H2O2 has no effect, and the only way I can get it off is to swap polarity. When that electrode is used as the cathode, the black coating turns into a gray sludge and wipes off easily. But now the other electrode gets coated. The local WallMart happens to be out of stock, and won't get more until the end of the week. I tried a bottle of Crystal Springs from a grocery store. I used it many years ago and it seemed to give good results. But this bottle does very strange things. It also has a higher initial resistance than I am used to seeing, and the cell voltage drops immediately instead of rising slightly before dropping. Soon afterwards, small wisps of a white substance form around the cathode and soon the entire liquid gets a funny cloudy appearance. The salt test seems ok, but I wouldn't drink it. Now I'm off on a hunt to find better dw. Pharma Plus used to be pretty good - I'll try a bottle and see what it does. So if your cs is forming whiskers after such a short brew, I'd try different brands of dw and see if you can find one that works better. I also discovered it is a good idea to record the date code that is laser-etched on the side of the bottle. Then, if your cs suddenly changes, you can try another bottle with a different date code and see if it's just a problem with that batch. I think we all run into dw problems sooner or later. It might be a good idea to store a couple of bottles in the refrigerator so you have some spares while you are madly searching for the good stuff. But I'd check the date codes and try brewing a sample from each bottle to be sure you are keeping spares that are known to be good. Then swap them out after a while to keep fresh stuff in stock. Let us know what you find out - 6 ppm is very low. I've never seen cs that low before. Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS
url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m61500.html Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS From: Dan Nave Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:34:52 You must have mistaken me for someone who knows what he's doing ;-)). My math skills are basic at best. Well, I muddled through per your instructions and Wppot32 and Mercury and found that the average current was only .220 ma. So the calculated ppm was 6.23 and the actual was probably a lot lower. Actual time was 2.5 hours @ 12 ounces distilled water. Remember I said that I calculated the series resistor without regard for the cell resistance. The cell resistance at the end was 20K ohms which was equal to the series resistor. The final current was about .444ma. So this was about half of the 1ma I was shooting for and obviously the beginning current was a lot less, about .116ma. (Voltage = 18V; Resistor = 20K ohm; beginning cell resistance = 136K ohms, end = 20K ohm) But, from your reaction, the description of my salt test gave you a clear indication of the ppm of my CS or EIS. Dan Congratulations! It looks like you are getting pretty good at math. It looks like your current is below the misting level and should be ok. Are you letting it brew until tiny whiskers form on the cathode loops? That is usually a good place to stop. If not, let us know how long that takes. You might find the salt test is a bit whiter and easier to see:) Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS
Yes, I let it run until a substantial amount of whiskers were on the cathode. Dan Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS From: Mike Monett Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 09:58:17 url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m61500.html Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS From: Dan Nave Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:34:52 You must have mistaken me for someone who knows what he's doing ;-)). My math skills are basic at best. Well, I muddled through per your instructions and Wppot32 and Mercury and found that the average current was only .220 ma. So the calculated ppm was 6.23 and the actual was probably a lot lower. Actual time was 2.5 hours @ 12 ounces distilled water. Remember I said that I calculated the series resistor without regard for the cell resistance. The cell resistance at the end was 20K ohms which was equal to the series resistor. The final current was about .444ma. So this was about half of the 1ma I was shooting for and obviously the beginning current was a lot less, about .116ma. (Voltage = 18V; Resistor = 20K ohm; beginning cell resistance = 136K ohms, end = 20K ohm) But, from your reaction, the description of my salt test gave you a clear indication of the ppm of my CS or EIS. Dan Congratulations! It looks like you are getting pretty good at math. It looks like your current is below the misting level and should be ok. Are you letting it brew until tiny whiskers form on the cathode loops? That is usually a good place to stop. If not, let us know how long that takes. You might find the salt test is a bit whiter and easier to see:) Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS
Update: About 2 hours after removing power the batch turned the color of weak tea. Today it has deposited a brownish layer on the glass. TE developed somewhat. I ran another batch for 10 hrs 19 minutes yesterday...got 20.3 uS. I didn't watch it at all. Still clear and colorless today. Faint TE A pretty good sized pure white 'beard' of silver developed on one electrode hanging off the bottom of the loop, the other seemed unchanged. Ode At 06:32 AM 7/24/2003 -0400, you wrote: I ran a batch with a modified silverpuppy yesterday and last night. I was very busy so I didn't watch it like a hawk or anything. Ultra low current and voltage DC Current control set at 164 microamps. Starting voltage 7 volts [no load voltage at 28 volts] 6.5 submerged x 12 gauge looped electrodes/ 1 3/8 apart Batch size 1 pint Water at 1.6 uS at start. No stirring except when taking meter readings After 7 hours: No appreciable deposits of changes to electrodes. Bubbles on both electrodes..large and few 1.42 volts 12.1 uS Very slight TE After 11 hours 9 minutes: one electrode white, other sorta darkish grey/brown..nothing significant. Bubbles still 1.42 volts [still? That's odd.] [didn't check amps] 16.5 uS Slight TE After 20 hours 33 minutes: Significant but still not 'heavy' white metallic plateout on one electrode..a little fuzzy. The other, mostly clean metal with very little darkish fuzz towards the bottom of the loop. No bubbles at all anywhere. .84 volts 146 microamps 24.6 uS Slight TE Salt test: Enough salt to leave some undissolved in bottom of a shot glass. Turned milky white..but not like skim milk or anything. Crystal clear CS [no color] Conclusion: Not significantly different from most batches made at .9 ma with thermal stirring. Perhaps a lighter TE indicating a higher ion to particle ratio than some batches made at .9 ma. One batch doesn't tell that story. Ode [aka Ken] Howcome you can only go down to 0.5mA? Can you get down to 162uA? Ken Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS
The big difference is my current setup would be dark yellow by now. I am still using straight rods for the anode, and a W for the cathode. ## It did go tea colored about two hours after removing power [blackish brown] I was doing the write up immediately after stopping the batch. I have noticed a drop in performance lately - maybe it's partly due to the crud I am letting build up on the anode. Soon I will clean it off with H2O2 and see if it makes any difference. Salt test: Enough salt to leave some undissolved in bottom of a shot glass. Turned milky white..but not like skim milk or anything. Yes, I would expect a very strong dispersion. Could you see objects behind the glass? ## Yes The big advantage of the lower current density is it needs no stirring, which would be a heavy drain on a battery and less suitable for use in remote areas or third world countries where batteries are expensive. Stirring also adds to the cost, and I am trying to drive that down to the absolute minimum and still maintain quality. When you depend on donations, every tenth of a penny counts. ### Seems that a very small solar cell would do the job. Ode -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS
url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m61490.html Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS From: Ode Coyote Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 04:14:24 Update: About 2 hours after removing power the batch turned the color of weak tea. Today it has deposited a brownish layer on the glass. TE developed somewhat. I ran another batch for 10 hrs 19 minutes yesterday...got 20.3 uS. I didn't watch it at all. Still clear and colorless today. Faint TE A pretty good sized pure white 'beard' of silver developed on one electrode hanging off the bottom of the loop, the other seemed unchanged. Ode Hi Ken, Thanks for the update. I discovered this morning that I used the wrong dw volume for the ppm calculations. I used the 250 ml value shown on your web site, and didn't notice your entry showing that the volume had changed to 1 pint. This will reduce all the calculated ppm values. I have been up all night and am too tired to try recalculating the values. It will also change my remarks, since they were based on the much higher values. I'll get some sleep and post a corrected version later. Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS
url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m61493.html Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS From: Ode Coyote Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 05:03:50 It did go tea colored about two hours after removing power [blackish brown] I was doing the write up immediately after stopping the batch. I'm still trying to get some sleep - terrible headaches so I decided to check the list. I have to redo the ppm calculations, but it looks like the ratio will be 250 / 473 = 0.52 So the calculated ppm will be about half the original values. Yes, I would expect 25 ppm to start turning color - mine turns yellow before the brew is finished at 28 ppm calculated. Salt test: Enough salt to leave some undissolved in bottom of a shot glass. Turned milky white..but not like skim milk or anything. Yes, I would expect a very strong dispersion. Could you see objects behind the glass? Yes It looks like the dispersion may be above 20 ppm and below 30. I'm really tired, so don't hold me to this. Jason will really give me the fits trying to explain what I meant:) Man, he is very good! He writes so well I want to throw my keyboard out the window after reading his posts. Seems that a very small solar cell would do the job. Sure - then it rains for a week and you catch a cold:) Ode Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS
You must have mistaken me for someone who knows what he's doing ;-)). My math skills are basic at best. Well, I muddled through per your instructions and Wppot32 and Mercury and found that the average current was only .220 ma. So the calculated ppm was 6.23 and the actual was probably a lot lower. Actual time was 2.5 hours @ 12ounces distilled water. Remember I said that I calculated the series resistor without regard for the cell resistance. The cell resistance at the end was 20K ohms which was equal to the series resistor. The final current was about .444ma. So this was about half of the 1ma I was shooting for and obviously the beginning current was a lot less, about .116ma. (Voltage = 18V; Resistor = 20K ohm; beginning cell resistance = 136K ohms, end = 20K ohm) But, from your reaction, the description of my salt test gave you a clear indication of the ppm of my CS or EIS. Dan http://www.escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m61453.html you wrote: Hi Dan, Thanks for the info. Golly, that is the weakest salt test I have ever seen. It has to be well below 10 ppm. Can you try integrating the current vs time curve to get the average current, then do the Faraday calculation? An example of integrating a current/time curve is on my web page in Figs 3 and 4: http://www3.sympatico.ca/add.automation/misc/130vdc.htm The integral intercepts the right Y-axis at a value of about 32. The time is 30 minutes, so the average current is 32/30 = 1.066 mA You can do this in WPlot. Just give it a table of current values and the time since starting the brew. Just plug that into Mercury and let us know the predicted ppm. I'll bet it is pretty low:) Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS
url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m61358.html Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS From: Jason Eaton Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 00:21:00 Hi Jason, Great Post! I've trimmed to save space. Hi Mike: Great Post! Unfortunately, Faraday's Equation doesn't always equate properly with modern CS production... I believe with low current devices, Faraday's equation is close to accurate. There are fundamentally two problems with using Faraday's equation to calculate PPM: 1. A controlled-potential coulometric analysis is required in order to obtain accurate readings The current must be absolutely controlled. This can be done, I discovered quite a few months ago, with a potentiostat... But then again, you and Bob are the engineers, so: Engineer. According to the information below, 100% efficiency is required with the current. http://chem.ch.huji.ac.il/~eugeniik/instruments/electrochemical/coulometric_titrators.htm Thanks for the trip down nostalgia lane. Those are very good examples of the construction style in the 50's, and I was a teenager when those were designed. You can do the same thing now with a simple FET and opamp, and get pretty good accuracy over a large range. You are also correct, a simple resistor can provide pretty good current stabilization. It's easy to monitor the current at intervals then toss the data into WPlot. It will integrate the values and give the average current. Then put that into Mercury and you're done. I think we need to talk a little about precision and accuracy. Let me introduce you to the wonderful world of electronics. I have a frequency counter/timer on my bench with 12 digits of resolution. I bought it new in 1982, and later models have even higher resolution. I also have a dvm on the bench with 7 digits of resolution. It was designed around the same time. Newer models have higher resolution. I often have to take the thermal contact potential with dissimilar metals into account in my designs and during measurements. These are in the microvolt region - a million times lower than an ordinary 9V battery. You can buy a dvm from harbor freight for under $10.00. DVM's usually have tolerance spec's in the 0.1% to 0.01% range. In electronics, we are used to working with levels of precision that are unheard of in chemistry. For example, I see Ken's jar has the tolerance of +/-2% marked on the glass. But that is only available when the table surface is perfectly flat and horizontal. Any tilt will cause a cosine error in the measured volume, but I never see this mentioned anywhere. Temperature will change the measured volume just like in a thermometer. But I rarely see any site that is concerned enough to take that into account. There are so many error sources in chemistry, I'm amazed that anything gets produced. I really had to readjust my thinking down several orders of magnitude when I started working with cs. It took a while, but I'm starting to become comfortable with it. You often see displays or printouts with lots of digits. These give the impression the instrument is very accurate. However, many of the least significant digits may be of little value. In engineering, we are required to carry all the digits during calculations, and suppress the unusable digits in the final report. Many of the instruments made by Hewlett-Packard do this automatically, but if you collect the data over the HPIB bus, they often send all the digits and you have to figure out yourself which ones to suppress. Unfortunately, in chemistry, there is often no way to tell which digits should be suppressed. There is always noise in the readings. Averaging can be used to reduce the noise if it is random and uncorrelated. In this case, the improvement in the signal-to-noise ratio (snr) is proportional to the square root of the number of samples. The reason is the noise adds orthogonally, and the signal adds linearly. The disadvantage of using averaging is to improve the SNR is you have to double the number of samples to get a small increase. For example, averaging 100 samples will give a factor of ten improvement in standard deviation. To improve the snr by 3 dB, or a factor of 0.707, now takes 200 averages. The problem is this takes twice as long, and may not be practical due to time constraints or other factors. A really big problem occurs if the measurement drifts during the measurements. I know of no easy way to detect this in the data, but now the data is corrupted and you may not know anything has happened. You have to go through the data in blocks and calculate the mean, and see if there is a detectable drift. The dilemma is the mean change
Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS
url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m61472.html Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS From: Mike Monett Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 23:28:26 http://www.silvermedicine.org/robertobecker.html However, if you notice the diagram referencing the lines of voltage and lines of current, you'll note that a FIELD is actually established. Voltage is still present between the anode and cathode. OK, I see the problem. The diagram on the left shows the field lines. This is the direction of the field gradient at each point. It is not really the current flow. Current in an electrolyte is in the form of ions, not electrons. As Ivan pointed out, ions move very slowly in the typical electric fields we use to make cs. We can consider them to be stationary. The majority of the flow of ions in an electrolyte is due to diffusion, which may be orders of magnitude faster. I have found a way to make this visible, so we can now track their movement during the cs process. Will post soon Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS
I ran a batch with a modified silverpuppy yesterday and last night. I was very busy so I didn't watch it like a hawk or anything. Ultra low current and voltage DC Current control set at 164 microamps. Starting voltage 7 volts [no load voltage at 28 volts] 6.5 submerged x 12 gauge looped electrodes/ 1 3/8 apart Batch size 1 pint Water at 1.6 uS at start. No stirring except when taking meter readings After 7 hours: No appreciable deposits of changes to electrodes. Bubbles on both electrodes..large and few 1.42 volts 12.1 uS Very slight TE After 11 hours 9 minutes: one electrode white, other sorta darkish grey/brown..nothing significant. Bubbles still 1.42 volts [still? That's odd.] [didn't check amps] 16.5 uS Slight TE After 20 hours 33 minutes: Significant but still not 'heavy' white metallic plateout on one electrode..a little fuzzy. The other, mostly clean metal with very little darkish fuzz towards the bottom of the loop. No bubbles at all anywhere. .84 volts 146 microamps 24.6 uS Slight TE Salt test: Enough salt to leave some undissolved in bottom of a shot glass. Turned milky white..but not like skim milk or anything. Crystal clear CS [no color] Conclusion: Not significantly different from most batches made at .9 ma with thermal stirring. Perhaps a lighter TE indicating a higher ion to particle ratio than some batches made at .9 ma. One batch doesn't tell that story. Ode [aka Ken] Howcome you can only go down to 0.5mA? Can you get down to 162uA? Ken Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS
Brownie recipies have been known to reduce resistance and enhance the completion of circuits. ;-) Ode At 06:08 PM 7/23/2003 +, you wrote: Ode Coyote7/23/03 11:22 AM That has to do with the range of the pot...lower? sure. Well lets not waste that pot, I have a brownie recipe ... :-) Jack -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS
url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m61477.html Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS From: Ode Coyote Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 04:09:47 I ran a batch with a modified silverpuppy yesterday and last night. I was very busy so I didn't watch it like a hawk or anything. Ultra low current and voltage DC Current control set at 164 microamps. Starting voltage 7 volts [no load voltage at 28 volts] 6.5 submerged x 12 gauge looped electrodes/ 1 3/8 apart Batch size 1 pint Water at 1.6 uS at start. No stirring except when taking meter readings After 7 hours: No appreciable deposits of changes to electrodes. Bubbles on both electrodes..large and few Maybe it's some dissolved gas. 1.42 volts 12.1 uS Very slight TE I would have let it run about 8 hrs, but this is good data. Let's see what Faraday says: hrs = 7 ; time I= 164e-6 ; current in Amperes ml = 250; volume of dw sqin = 6.5 / 4; wetted area Solution: C = 4.132 ; total Coulombs den = 0.0001009 ; 100 uA/sq.in. Perfect! phr = 2.64; ppm per hr ppm = 18.48 ; ppm liberated Hah! I did the calculations for 100 uA/sq.in., and it came out perfect. Of course, it has to, but it's a good sanity check. If you let it run a bit longer, it would be very close to what I use. This is the stuff I found so effective on the Shingles virus. Do you have a conversion between uS and ppm? I added a calculation to give the uS change per second. I don't know what the original value was, so I set it to zero. Here's the first calculation: uh = uS / sec; microsiemens per hr Solution: sec = 25200 uh = 0.000480 Let's track that number: 0.000480 After 11 hours 9 minutes: one electrode white, other sorta darkish grey/brown..nothing significant. Bubbles still 1.42 volts [still? That's odd.] [didn't check amps] 16.5 uS Slight TE Now we are starting to make deposits, so much of the current is diverted. Here's Faraday: hrs = 11 ; hours mnt = 9 ; minutes uS = 16.5; uS Solution: ppm = 29.43 uh = 0.000411 This is very interesting. I start to get a yellow solution at this level, but you are still clear. I'm going to get rid of the rods I use for the anode and switch to the same W I use for the cathode. Note the change in uS/hr. It has dropped from 0.000480 to 0.000411. I could do the calculation to show the difference which would make it look like a bigger number, but you can see this is a significant drop in the slope. So we are starting to lose ions and make deposits on the electrodes. This will make the calculated ppm and actual ppm start to diverge. After 20 hours 33 minutes: Significant but still not 'heavy' white metallic plateout on one electrode..a little fuzzy. The other, mostly clean metal with very little darkish fuzz towards the bottom of the loop. No bubbles at all anywhere. .84 volts 146 microamps 24.6 uS Slight TE Here's Faraday: hrs = 20 ; hours mnt = 33 ; minutes uS = 24.6 ; uS Solution: ppm = 54.25 uh = 0.000332 The calculated ppm is quite high, but the uS/hr has dropped substantially from the starting number of 0.000480 So we can see much of the current is used making deposits. The big difference is my current setup would be dark yellow by now. I am still using straight rods for the anode, and a W for the cathode. I have noticed a drop in performance lately - maybe it's partly due to the crud I am letting build up on the anode. Soon I will clean it off with H2O2 and see if it makes any difference. Salt test: Enough salt to leave some undissolved in bottom of a shot glass. Turned milky white..but not like skim milk or anything. Yes, I would expect a very strong dispersion. Could you see objects behind the glass? Crystal clear CS [no color] This is amazing. I gotta change my setup:) Conclusion: Not significantly different from most batches made at .9 ma with thermal stirring. Perhaps a lighter TE indicating a higher ion to particle ratio than some batches made at .9 ma. One batch doesn't tell that story. Ode [aka Ken] Yes, I was hoping it would be very similar, but you have convinced me of the value of folded wire for both electrodes, and how harmful the straight rods are. My current setup would not have performed nearly as well. It starts pooping out at about 23 ppm calculated. I am using the straight rods for the anode to see if the crud has any effect. When I use the W for the anode, it stays clean. So it seems there really is a difference in the way they work. The big advantage of the lower current
Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS
url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m61485.html Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS From: Mike Monett (view other messages by this author) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:21:07 Sorry, I started to do the uS calculation in hours, then changed it to seconds. But I forgot to change the comments, and made the same mistake in the text. Everything is uS / sec, not uS / hr Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS
be spherical: A ball within a ball. This is the only possible way to completely control the current draw. Water circulation would be used, counterclockwise in North America, but preferrably outside the Earth's Magnetic field using reverse flow forms-- and certainly with gravity nullified. I would prefer to use phase lasers, when they are eventually invented, in-line, to prevent agglomeration. Unfortunately, it seems, I read too much Isaac Asimov growing up! My end dream product would look like 'Ole Bob's crystalline formations, only with the web formed quite a bit more intricately and distributed throughout the solution. This would be EIS stabilized only by virtue of its own crystalline properties. To my knowledge, nobody has determined the ideal ratio between ions and particles. Perhaps there is a golden ratio that exists where the size of particles are as minute as possible, at X%, with ionic content at Y% A three dimensional 'pi' for EIS. The H2O2 is endlessly fascinating. Provided the CS is highly ionic, without any flaking, it is quite easy to stabilize H2O2 in the solution. When flaking or agglomerated particles are involved, there is yet another reaction that causes the silver to precipitate out. I've stabilized 50 PPM H2O2 in ( what must be extremely close to ) 100% ionic silver for ( at least ) two months; I use peroxide testing strips as a gauge. However, I know a few co-researchers who prefer to utilize the CS H2O2 while the oxidation reaction is taking place... Within a few minutes of combining 3 drops of 35% H2O2 to about 4 ounces of quality isolated silver. PPM meters appear quite useless when H2O2 is added to the equation. My favorite H2O2 silver combination is made by taking one of the old silver puppy units, with mechanical stirring and a potentiometer wired in... I first plate some silver on the bottom of the glass. I then start a slow brew, and as time progresses I continually reduce the current and increase the temperature of the water, to near boiling over about a four hour period of time ( the temperature is not increased until I notice that the process is degrading ). The end product is crystal clear, but would not remain so as agglomeration would rapidly set in. However, I immediately add the H2O2 @ 35%, two to five drops per four ounces, and enjoy watching the brief rolling boil of the H2O2 / Silver reaction. I let this sit for a few moments before use. I've used this combination time and time again for extremely tough mouth infections and throat infections ( Strep ). I estimate it is at least twice as effective as silver used alone, with at least these two conditions. However, the trick is: You must keep the silver in the mouth for at least 3-5 minutes, or you risk the uncomfort associated with H2O2 reacting in the stomach. Keeping the sol in the mouth for 5 minutes prevents this reaction. With direct tissue contact in the mouth and throat, it appears that the reaction itself effects the bioavailability of the silver, as the result is not the same with the just silver nor just H2O2. This process is repeated every seven to fifteen minutes ( ingesting it by consuming between a tablespoonful and an ounce, depending on preference ). In one case ( out of about four ) that I've been involved with, the infection in the mouth was severe enough that the surgeon did not want to operate to excise the problem tooth, which was probably just as well, as the individual would not have been able to afford the surgery. This formulation, in conjunction with the H2O2 silver solution used in the ears, nailed the infection ( which had cause the whole side of the face to swell ), and the problem wisdom tooth was eventually naturally extracted using clay packs After about a total of six months of non-diligent applications of the silver/clay. I wouldn't recommend this exact scenario without some experience, however; it probably would have been better just to have the tooth pulled if the means were available. The problem occurs when the MD prescribes antibiotics, and they don't work; this individual was in too much pain to wait for a regime of antibiotics to try to knock the infection out. The problem also occurs when normal CS works too good and too quickly, and the user doesn't experience any further pain, and doesn't take the CS long enough to lick the infection, or is not able to have the cause taken care of resulting in second and more severe occurence, even a third... Tissue takes time to heal, and if it doesn't, each recurrence of the infection can certainly easily be worse -- and deeper. Best Regards, Jason Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS Hi Jason, Thanks for the really great comments. In a lot of things, I couldn't agree with you more. I love your comments on Frank's Mesosilver on your forum page. It's so good, it's worth repeating here: Welcome
Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS
Jason, That's odd - the link I posted to your Mesosilver comment worked fine last night, but it doesn't seem to work this morning. http://www.silvermedicine.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12sid=5ee9f6e687277e5da0f16fb1d7e9165e Here is a new link, also verified working at 05:25 EST http://www.silvermedicine.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12sid=13ebe16cd9df2fb87bad7ddf055ee26f I really don't understand php programming, so I don't know if this one will continue working either. But the forum is in google, so it's easy to find. Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS
Yes, I admire your philosophy very much. Keep It Simple, Sydney. Howcome you can only go down to 0.5mA? Can you get down to 162uA? That has to do with the range of the pot...lower? sure. Different pot or resistors. Also, does stirring affect the brew time when autoshutoff is enabled?\ Since stirring distributes everything in the water, ion tracks don't form and the shutdown is delayed until ALL the water reaches the proper conductivity. Otherwise, shutdown would be early because conductive pathways fool the circuitry. Ken Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS
Mike: This link would work, as the cookie associated with the session expires: http://www.silvermedicine.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12 t represents the topic id, and sid is the session ID. Best Regards, Jason - Original Message - From: Mike Monett mzmvdd...@sneakemail.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 2:29 AM Subject: Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS Jason, That's odd - the link I posted to your Mesosilver comment worked fine last night, but it doesn't seem to work this morning. http://www.silvermedicine.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12sid=5ee9f6e687277e5da 0f16fb1d7e9165e Here is a new link, also verified working at 05:25 EST http://www.silvermedicine.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12sid=13ebe16cd9df2fb87 bad7ddf055ee26f I really don't understand php programming, so I don't know if this one will continue working either. But the forum is in google, so it's easy to find. Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS
MM wrote: At the high current density typical of most cs generators, the process starts making particles at about 10 ppm. This is confirmed by the Faraday equation and the salt test, which gives a weak, pale blue dispersion. The silver oxide coats the electrodes with a black film, and black deposits are formed on the sides of the glass and appear on the bottom under the rods. So we know where the ions went. When the current density is reduced, the process can go to a higher ppm before it starts turning color. This is confirmed by the Faraday equation and the salt test. For example, at 87 uA/sq.in., I can easily make 19 ppm cs that stays clear indefinitely, even after freezing. The salt test shows a milky white dispersion. __ I pretty much confirmed this . Last week I did 2 runs using the same setup but with different current densities and times. I don't have the actual data in front of me but generally, I ran one batch at 1ma for about 3 hours and one at about .07ma for 24 hours. The currents were actually less since I calculated the resistors without regard to the resistance of the cell. Anyway, the 1ma batch showed a lot of buildup on the electrodes and gave a salt test that you really couldn't see at room ambient light but was visible as a light blue in a darkened room with a flashlight shining through it. The .07 ma batch had much less buildup on the electrodes and it also had a different quality. The salt test showed it to be a light blue in room light and substantially more color and cloudiness in darkened room with flashlight. It was at least twice as cloudy as the 1ma sample. Obviously, the salt test is a bit subjective, but it certainly seems to have merit. Dan -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS
To List; It seems that a post that Jason refers to got mangled in the archives just about the time escribe came back on line. It looks like Chuck's post got archived instead, and I have no idea where the original went. Here's Chuck's post archived under my name: url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m61362.html Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS From: Mike Monett Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 00:21:08 OK, here's a great rundown of what to expect on this cleanse: http://www.yestheyrefake.net/lemonade_diet_cleanse_journal.htm Chuck KNOW YOUR STATE MOTTO Hawaii: Haka Tiki Mou Sha'ami Leeki Toru (Death To Mainland Scum, Leave Your Money) While I would love to find out where Chuck gets these great lines, it really shouldn't be archived under my name. Nobody but Chuck is that good:) For archival purposes, here is the original post. I have corrected the spelling on one word at the end, and changed the links per Jason's recommendation. Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS Hi Jason, Thanks for the really great comments. In a lot of things, I couldn't agree with you more. I love your comments on Frank's Mesosilver on your forum page. It's so good, it's worth repeating here: Welcome! There's nothing wrong with Mesosilver. There is, however, quite a bit wrong with their unsubstantiated philosophy that silver ions are not effective in the body. They tend to over-simplify the biological processes to a few simple chemical reactions. I've spoken with numerous chemists who disagree with their base idea that silver chloride always remains silver chloride in the body. They ignore metalloproteins, and a whole host of other possible chemical reactions that could take place. Experience, while certainly not scientific proof, indicates that ionic silver is greatly effective. Based on their claims, their product should be at least 9 times more effective, when compared with the other top electrically isolated silvers out there. I have yet to see evidence that this is the case. With less refined isolated colloidal silver products, it should be over 100X more effective. As an example, I just recently spent quite a bit of time on the phone speaking with someone who cured a case of neurosyphilis by drinking silver chloride. If the makers of Mesosilver were correct, then this individual should be six feet under about now. If he had listened to them, he would also be six feet under about now, as he would likely have abandoned his usage, and would not have been able to afford to purchase their product. I've viewed numerous testimonials from those using Mesosilver, and have spoken with quite a few users. I've also had numerous conversations with the founder of silvercolloids.com. The staff has a great deal of knowledge and is very committed to their product. However, they are completely biased. Furthermore, I have been told there is no interest in actually PROVING their claims. They are willing to rest on their beliefs, which is of course their right. While their product is certainly a quality colloidal silver, I haven't seen anything to indicate that it works better than the best ionic silver's out there. There is, however, plenty of clinical and scientific proof concerning the effect of silver ions. The works of Dr. Robert O. Becker, Dr. Bart Flick, among others clearly show the potential benefit of silver ions in the human body, provided they of course ARE in a usable form. Silver ions from silver-coated catheders work just fine as well: http://www.silverinstitute.org/silvnews/2001/4b01.html You may also want to read the following mini-articles carefully: http://www.somaticsplus.com/health_hints/hhls7a.html Best Regards, - Jason Last edited by AVRA on Thu May 15, 2003 7:56 pm; edited 1 time in total http://www.silvermedicine.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12 Yes, I think you will find many people who agree with your assessment of Frank's claims. I don't know about the guy who cured neurosyphilis with silver chloride. If silver chloride worked that well, we'd all be adding salt as a starter to make cs. Most people stopped doing that a long time ago. I think you'll find that many people here agree with you that ionic silver is the true workhorse in colloidal silver. Robert and Marshall certainly do, and I definitely agree. My experience with high
Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS
Ode Coyote7/23/03 11:22 AM That has to do with the range of the pot...lower? sure. Well lets not waste that pot, I have a brownie recipe ... :-) Jack -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS
url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m61444.html Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS From: Dan Nave (view other messages by this author) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:37:23 Dan wrote: I pretty much confirmed this. Last week I did 2 runs using the same setup but with different current densities and times. I don't have the actual data in front of me but generally, I ran one batch at 1ma for about 3 hours and one at about .07ma for 24 hours. The currents were actually less since I calculated the resistors without regard to the resistance of the cell. Anyway, the 1ma batch showed a lot of buildup on the electrodes and gave a salt test that you really couldn't see at room ambient light but was visible as a light blue in a darkened room with a flashlight shining through it. The .07 ma batch had much less buildup on the electrodes and it also had a different quality. The salt test showed it to be a light blue in room light and substantially more color and cloudiness in darkened room with flashlight. It was at least twice as cloudy as the 1ma sample. Obviously, the salt test is a bit subjective, but it certainly seems to have merit. Dan Hi Dan, Thanks for the info. Golly, that is the weakest salt test I have ever seen. It has to be well below 10 ppm. Can you try integrating the current vs time curve to get the average current, then do the Faraday calculation? An example of integrating a current/time curve is on my web page in Figs 3 and 4: http://www3.sympatico.ca/add.automation/misc/130vdc.htm The integral intercepts the right Y-axis at a value of about 32. The time is 30 minutes, so the average current is 32/30 = 1.066 mA You can do this in WPlot. Just give it a table of current values and the time since starting the brew. Just plug that into Mercury and let us know the predicted ppm. I'll bet it is pretty low:) Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS
url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m61433.html Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS From: Jason Eaton Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:53:22 Mike: This link would work, as the cookie associated with the session expires: http://www.silvermedicine.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12 t represents the topic id, and sid is the session ID. Best Regards, Jason Jason, Thanks! This is very useful informtion. I never could figure out why they needed such a long string in a url, and it's hard to put in a post since it always wraps. Now I can cut it off and not have to worry about killing the link:) Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS
Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS Here are the inevitable corrections, but not so many this time. Anyway, it is a poor business model then the FDA and pharmaceutical companies are trying to change the law so they can put you out of business. Typical typo - please change then to when, so it reads Anyway, it is a poor business model when the FDA and pharmaceutical companies are trying to change the law so they can put you out of business. Some thoughts on giving cs to someone for the first time: However, children and sensitive people may refuse to take it. Once this happens, they may never try it again. I think it is normal for people to have a bit of fear of something new. CS is definitely something they have never experienced before, and it may help to sit down and try to describe what it tastes like, instead of surprising them. It is important to stress the positive aspects of this strange new experience. It doesn't have any smell, so they may be surprised when their taste buds start sending signals to their brain. It is important to intercept these before that little switch flips in their mind and they decide they don't like it. Let them know that the new taste will tell them it is working, and to look for it. It will soon go away, so they have to work quickly. Let them know it won't make them sick, and they won't feel any other effects. The hardest part is to get them to keep their mouth closed for ten minutes. Not many people are used to doing that:) Let them know beforehand the taste is much better than the other remedies they may have taken that have a strong medicinal smell. These linger in the mouth for a long time, and can make someone nauseous. The most convincing method might be to wait until they show the symptoms of a cold or flu. Explain patiently as before what they will likely experience, and let them sleep overnight. When they wake in the morning and are no longer sick, they will be convinced of the value of cs, and not mind the taste at all. In fact, they may become very discriminating and let you know in no uncertain terms when it is not as strong as usual. Probably others have stories of their experiences that may be helpful to the group. Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS
I can do that but all calibration goes out the window unless the factory setting side of the switch is used. I can also make current variable from .5 to 6 ma. [or nearly any other range under 6 ma] But change one thing and everything else changes too...so, then I get reams of questions that don't contain enough info to answer, have no possible accurate answer or take many hours to figure out. Plug n' play If you play, you don't get to plug. Not exactly the 'keep it simple' ..reliable ,affordable and convenient...philosophy I prefer. Ode I have always favored the Silverpuppy for the clean design and rounded electrodes. It might be possible to ask Ken to add a switch to reduce the current, which might open a new sales opportunity for him. It would allow people to choose which cs they prefer, and it's always best to let the customer decide. Think of Baskin-Robbins. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS
Mike Monett7/22/03 2:13 AM Third, there is no need for an expensive lab test. The salt test is a very good way to compare different cs solutions. Frank Key has offered free testing, but that offer might not be available to you any longer. What more could a lab tell us that we need to know? Very little, and their results would likely never agree with the same test run at yet another lab. So why bother? Depending on the test results, we would know how much of what you say can be given any credence -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS
Subject: Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 06:17:33 -0400 From: Ode Coyote coyote...@earthlink.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com I can do that but all calibration goes out the window unless the factory setting side of the switch is used. I can also make current variable from .5 to 6 ma. [or nearly any other range under 6 ma] But change one thing and everything else changes too...so, then I get reams of questions that don't contain enough info to answer, have no possible accurate answer or take many hours to figure out. Plug n' play If you play, you don't get to plug. Not exactly the 'keep it simple' ..reliable, affordable and convenient...philosophy I prefer. Ode Yes, I admire your philosophy very much. Keep It Simple, Sydney. Howcome you can only go down to 0.5mA? Can you get down to 162uA? Also, does stirring affect the brew time when autoshutoff is enabled? Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS
I take about an ounce in the morning and an ounce at night of 5 ppm HVAC. When I started in 1998 I was getting a cold or flu almost monthly and would get cold sores about twice a month. Since starting that regime I have not been sick or gotten a cold sore since. However I have started feeling sick, usually after eating something that was going bad, but always got over it within a few minutes if I take an additional few ounces. I got bit by a tick last year and got the bulls eye that indicates lyme. Since I had had lyme before and it took me years to get rid of it with the allopathic medicine, I took about 8 oz of CS a day for a week. I never got sick. Marshall bri...@dlois.com wrote: How much CS does everyone take? Drink an ounce or two? Drink a glass? How often do you do this? What PPM? How does color relate to PPM if it does? My generator makes pale yellow but i've yet to experience this feeling in my mouth or have much luck using it as mouth wash. Can someone share their experiences? -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS
How much CS does everyone take? Drink an ounce or two? Drink a glass? How often do you do this? What PPM? How does color relate to PPM if it does? My generator makes pale yellow but i've yet to experience this feeling in my mouth or have much luck using it as mouth wash. Can someone share their experiences? -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS
Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS Hi Jason, Thanks for the really great comments. In a lot of things, I couldn't agree with you more. I love your comments on Frank's Mesosilver on your forum page. It's so good, it's worth repeating here: Welcome! There's nothing wrong with Mesosilver. There is, however, quite a bit wrong with their unsubstantiated philosophy that silver ions are not effective in the body. They tend to over-simplify the biological processes to a few simple chemical reactions. I've spoken with numerous chemists who disagree with their base idea that silver chloride always remains silver chloride in the body. They ignore metalloproteins, and a whole host of other possible chemical reactions that could take place. Experience, while certainly not scientific proof, indicates that ionic silver is greatly effective. Based on their claims, their product should be at least 9 times more effective, when compared with the other top electrically isolated silvers out there. I have yet to see evidence that this is the case. With less refined isolated colloidal silver products, it should be over 100X more effective. As an example, I just recently spent quite a bit of time on the phone speaking with someone who cured a case of neurosyphilis by drinking silver chloride. If the makers of Mesosilver were correct, then this individual should be six feet under about now. If he had listened to them, he would also be six feet under about now, as he would likely have abandoned his usage, and would not have been able to afford to purchase their product. I've viewed numerous testimonials from those using Mesosilver, and have spoken with quite a few users. I've also had numerous conversations with the founder of silvercolloids.com. The staff has a great deal of knowledge and is very committed to their product. However, they are completely biased. Furthermore, I have been told there is no interest in actually PROVING their claims. They are willing to rest on their beliefs, which is of course their right. While their product is certainly a quality colloidal silver, I haven't seen anything to indicate that it works better than the best ionic silver's out there. There is, however, plenty of clinical and scientific proof concerning the effect of silver ions. The works of Dr. Robert O. Becker, Dr. Bart Flick, among others clearly show the potential benefit of silver ions in the human body, provided they of course ARE in a usable form. Silver ions from silver-coated catheders work just fine as well: http://www.silverinstitute.org/silvnews/2001/4b01.html You may also want to read the following mini-articles carefully: http://www.somaticsplus.com/health_hints/hhls7a.html Best Regards, - Jason Last edited by AVRA on Thu May 15, 2003 7:56 pm; edited 1 time in total http://www.silvermedicine.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12sid=5ee9f6e687277e5da0f16fb1d7e9165e Yes, I think you will find many people who agree with your assessment of Frank's claims. I don't know about the guy who cured neurosyphilis with silver chloride. If silver chloride worked that well, we'd all be adding salt as a starter to make cs. Most people stopped doing that a long time ago. I think you'll find that many people here agree with you that ionic silver is the true workhorse in colloidal silver. Robert and Marshall certainly do, and I definitely agree. My experience with high ionic silver and the Shingles and cold virus came as a complete surprise, and convinced me of this fact. Low ionic silver is great for bacteria, and when you are young and have a vigorous immune system. But as you age, the immune system starts to degrade, and the 10 ppm or so you get from the 3 nines is no longer adequate. Nearly all cs generators will work against bacteria, but many viruses are a lot harder to kill. The SARS virus terrified the world and killed a high percentage of the people it infected, even with the best medical care possible. Most doctors seem convinced the next one is only a matter of time. The West Nile virus is now in the US, and it is spreading. It has a low death rate, but it can cause serious damage. Other terrible viruses can spread from their source, and there is nothing medical science can do to stop them. So I think we should pay a great deal of attention on how the cs process works and what it takes to produce high ionic silver reliably. One of the best ways to see if a particular electrode arrangement or current density works better is to have a quick and reliable way
CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS
To List; A number of people have asked why I do not send samples of the ULVDC process to a lab for testing. Mike Devour, Warren Jefferson, Robert Berger, and jrowland have asked this question. First of all, I am not interested in producing ULVDC commercially. I think it should be a gift. Many people have freely contributed their time and money to spreading information about colloidal silver with no profit motive whatsoever. Mike Devour is a prime example, for which I am deeply grateful. I have benefited greatly from their work. Why should I not follow their example? Second, because of the low current density, this cs would take too long to make to be profitable commercially. It would require ten to twenty times the investment in raw silver to equal the throughput of other methods. There is little reason to make this investment when a well-turned marketing phrase can accomplish the same thing. There are too many companies in this category. Anyway, it is a poor business model then the FDA and pharmaceutical companies are trying to change the law so they can put you out of business. There is no good reason to try to produce the generator commercially. A simple resistor and battery doesn't sound high-tech enough to support a sales price that would cover the cost of manufacture, let alone the cost of the silver. I have always favored the Silverpuppy for the clean design and rounded electrodes. It might be possible to ask Ken to add a switch to reduce the current, which might open a new sales opportunity for him. It would allow people to choose which cs they prefer, and it's always best to let the customer decide. Think of Baskin-Robbins. It would be interesting to produce the generator in a non-profit organization for distribution to third world countries. I would be very willing to do this, but currently lack the funds needed to start such a project. Third, there is no need for an expensive lab test. The salt test is a very good way to compare different cs solutions. The only thing that counts is the increased ion content as demonstrated by the salt test. The results on the Shingles virus and cold sores have already been described. What more could a lab tell us that we need to know? Very little, and their results would likely never agree with the same test run at yet another lab. So why bother? I have donated the copyrights to my generator the public domain. This means anyone can use it without fear of legal problems. They can even sell the product if they wish, subject to my review of their marketing description. Ideally, this would include a calculation of the maximum ppm via the Faraday equation, the current density at the electrodes, the shape of the electrodes, the wetted area, and a description of the dispersion in the salt test. But anyone can make any claims they wish, and there is no real way I can prevent this from happening. The only thing I can do is promote the salt test as an independent check on a manufacturer's claims. If a manufacturer claims 20 ppm, and you get a very weak, pale blue dispersion, something is wrong. That's closer to 10 ppm. If you get a milky white cloud, he is probably pretty close. If he claims 30 ppm or higher, forget about it. You may not want to drink large amounts of cs at this strength. If it is true, it may kill the friendly bacteria in your tummy and make you quite sick. Most likely, if there are any sharp edges on his electrodes, a solution this strong will quickly turn yellow. So either he has added something to the cs you may not want, or the measurement may be incorrect. The salt test will quickly show what's going on. At 30 ppm, it gives a strong white dispersion that makes it difficult to see objects behind the glass. At 60 ppm, it looks like skim milk and it is impossible to see anything behind the glass. Don't drink it. It may give you a tummyache. Since the ULVDC process was described publicly before any patent application was filed, there are no patent rights anywhere in the world except in the US. Those rights expire in less than a year. Anyone who tried to patent this process in the US would face stiff opposition from me due to prior art. Any claims they could dream up would have to be so narrow that it would make the patent worthless. So go ahead and use it. Learn how to do the salt test and the tooth test. They are your friends in an uncertain world. And forget about conflicting lab reports. (I don't know if this will post - the entire eskimo site has been down since Saturday. But the digest still comes via email, so it's worth a try.) Best Regards, Mike Monett P.S. The tooth test? Hold the cs in your mouth for ten minutes. If the ppm is
Re: CS Requests For Lab Test on ULVDC CS
Greetings, Mike: I have admired the spirit to which you've applied your expertise, and I wouldn't want to sit down and argue your mathematics! I'm certain your generator produces a fine colloidal silver and under well controlled conditions. First of all, I am not interested in producing ULVDC commercially. I think it should be a gift. Many people have freely contributed their time and money to spreading information about colloidal silver with no profit motive whatsoever. Many of us do. Mike, for instance, provides a fantastic temperment and a spirit of brotherhood that helps make everyone feel welcome. You won't see Mike posting about how X person's process is terrible, nor claiming that he's at last, for the millionth time, produced the perfect isolated silver product, although he knows at least as much about produced CS as the rest. 'Ole Bob, as an example, will occasionally hop in with a sincere challenge to those applying themselves outside of the box. As far as I'm concerned, he's earned that right, and he has the data and tests to prove his methods. 'Ole Bob keeps many a huckster honest. I certainly don't make a dime, and my expenditures in the silver arena ( and not engineering ) have been quite extensive. That said, and in the interest of authenticity, I would like to say that you should be careful making claims on processes, and judging other people's products, without any real knowledge. It's fun to think we're on the cutting edge, that we're making progress, that we are contributing to a greater cause. But when ego throws in the competition and division occur, people can actually get hurt... and not from exploding batteries, either. I see a great difference between competition between associates and blatant assaults, and it is only human nature for individuals to expect that one who steps up to the plate, to actually go to bat. As an example, I know all about both Ken's silverpuppies and Trem's Silvergens, because I OWN BOTH. I could tell you the differences in the end products, what I like about each, and even why I wouldn't give either up. I will tell you you are wrong if you think that Ken's unit produces a superior end product, although I wouldn't go so far to say that I believe Silvergens are neccessarily BETTER IN VIVO, because this is nearly impossible to establish without a large comparison population sample. I can tell you that Trem's product has been studied very closely, and has passed scrutiny that very few generators have. And this is real science, no salt test. Concerning the two generators, the end products are different, and they both make CS that I wouldn't hesitate to use in the worse possible situations. I can tell you that I get quite a few emails from professional producers, or their affiliates who complain about our recommended products page online. I tell them all the same thing, and watch them all dissapear without a trace. I listen to their spiels about how their products are superior because of promotional reasons X, Y, and Z... Alot of them sport small particle size due to utilizing a stabilized silver ( which is never as good as EIS ), some have great generators with poor quality water distillers built in ( which will turn any good generator into a big nine-volt battery-like setup ), some don't seem to see the difference between a successful 7 minute time-kill study and a successful 30 minute time kill study ( until it is pointed out to them ). I tell them it is very simple to have full lab work done, and prove their claims. I tell them our website guidelines. They agree to have the work done with great enthusiasm. Never has a company responded back afterward. One requirement is that if a company is in violation of FDA or FTC law, that they give an explanation on their site as to why... in one form or another. Another is not to spend time badmouthing the CS industry on their site. If anything, it is in unity that we have any strength. I've always been hard-nosed about commercial producers and CS. I give Frank the hardest time of all, because he is actually the most qualified and best equipped. I have a great interest in particulate silver, and little hard data to go on. Frank was a NASA engineer who worked on the Apollo project -- a true bonified American who reminds me alot of Tom Clancy temperment-wise. The gift you could offer the CS community -- based on past correspondances which I've viewed with interest -- is not yet another generator design, but real knowledge about what your generator design actually produces, and how effective it really is. I can't afford -- at this time -- to have AAS work done for you, but I can put aside the money in the near future to have some analytical work done, if you truly believe your generator cuts the mustard. Then, from that day forward, you'll know where your product stands, and can speak with confidence. I know exactly where the nine-volt battery method stands in comparison to
