RE: CSCs dangers..

2004-09-27 Thread Jim Holmes
They are a standard bio-lab supply item, having been bred to be without
hair.

JOH

-Original Message-
From: Frank Key [mailto:fr...@colloidalsciencelab.com] 
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 4:22 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSCs dangers..


Marshal wrote:



 If you are doing any naked mice studies, here is one that I would 
 really
 like
 to see done...


So, where does one get naked mice?


Just kidding!

Frank Key 



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Re: CSCs dangers..

2004-09-02 Thread David
I have a question I hope someone has an answer or some
thoughts on.  I pretty much preach CS to my friends
telling them the health benefits.  I am a firm
believer in taking a lot as I know it isn’t going to
hurt me and only help.  One of my friends brought out
a point I never thought about and I am not sure how
valid of an argument this is.   She sees the benefits
of taking a small amount of CS to support her immune
system but she says by taking too much CS, even taking
it everyday, it (the CS) becomes your immune system
and suppresses the body’s natural ability to become
immune to things it comes in contact with from day to
day.  Is this really a danger or concern we should
have?  


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Re: CSCs dangers..

2004-09-02 Thread Del
I started taking CS because my immune system was ALREADY compromised and
I was getting lots of colds, flu, and so forth.  I think it was just the
result of years of bad diet and of getting older.  Also, my wife was a
school teacher and the schools are just a hotbed of disease, and she
brought all this stuff home.

Anyway, since I started taking CS, I have been enormously less
susceptible to disease - I have had only one cold in the last three
years, and even that was due to negligence and over-confidence and could
have been avoided.  It feels to me like, far from being weakened, my
immune system is getting stronger because it is no longer being overrun
and has had time to rest and regenerate.  Part of the rest and
regeneration is a big improvement in my diet and exercise, and, of
course, that should be part of the program along with the CS.

So, no, I don't think it is a concern as long as it is part of an
overall health program.

Del

- Original Message - 
From: David davidgrave...@sbcglobal.net
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: CSCs dangers..


I have a question I hope someone has an answer or some
thoughts on.  I pretty much preach CS to my friends
telling them the health benefits.  I am a firm
believer in taking a lot as I know it isn't going to
hurt me and only help.  One of my friends brought out
a point I never thought about and I am not sure how
valid of an argument this is.   She sees the benefits
of taking a small amount of CS to support her immune
system but she says by taking too much CS, even taking
it everyday, it (the CS) becomes your immune system
and suppresses the body's natural ability to become
immune to things it comes in contact with from day to
day.  Is this really a danger or concern we should
have?


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Re: CSCs dangers..

2004-09-02 Thread Jonathan B. Britten
It seems to me that your friend has raised a valid question,  and that 
no one on the list will be able to answer this definitively.Apropos 
of hormone studies,  it seems that exogenous hormones can be quite 
harmful,  whereas endogenous hormones, enhanced by nutrition, and 
entirely beneficial.   Of course we can not generate silver 
endogenously,  but the point here is that there may be more natural 
ways of boosting immune function that would be much better, and safer 
in the long run, than taking large quantities of EIS.


I myself have a hunch that supplementation with CS should be done with 
caution if carried out on a regular basis,  not out of concern for 
argyria,  but simply because I think no one can be certain that the 
question raised below is irrelevant.My own layman's intuition is 
that if carried out on a regular basis,  the supplementation should be 
at a low level aimed at creating a natural level that might be 
obtained by consuming foods and drinking water in which silver might 
ordinarily be present.There are some postings about this in the 
archives I think.


I stress that I am not a clinician or professional scientist,  and 
think that even if I were,  I might not be able to provide any more 
insight than anyone else.I doubt that large clinical studies will 
ever be carried out,  and without those,  anything one says is, from a 
scientific point of view,  merely speculative or at best hypothetical.





On Friday, Sep 3, 2004, at 01:07 Asia/Tokyo, David wrote:


I have a question I hope someone has an answer or some
thoughts on.  I pretty much preach CS to my friends
telling them the health benefits.  I am a firm
believer in taking a lot as I know it isn’t going to
hurt me and only help.  One of my friends brought out
a point I never thought about and I am not sure how
valid of an argument this is.   She sees the benefits
of taking a small amount of CS to support her immune
system but she says by taking too much CS, even taking
it everyday, it (the CS) becomes your immune system
and suppresses the body’s natural ability to become
immune to things it comes in contact with from day to
day.  Is this really a danger or concern we should
have?


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CSCs dangers..NOT

2004-09-02 Thread Trem
Hi Jonathan,

I used to think along the same lines as you but about a year ago I changed
my mind.

Since one of every three of us in the U.S. is going to develop cancer in our
lifetimes and I discovered that CS causes cancer cells to dedifferentiate
and return to normal, I decided to up my daily dosage to 8 ounces.

Cancers all start small so I suspect that if one starts to get one it will
be nipped in the bud by CS before they notice it.

My take is that it would be better for me to stay well as far as colds,
flu's and other infections as well as be able to stop cancer before it gets
a foothold.

Over 6 years now with no infections.  Not a record but one heck of an
average.  Praise CS!!

Trem

- Original Message -
From: Jonathan B. Britten jbrit...@cc.nakamura-u.ac.jp
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 6:34 PM
Subject: Re: CSCs dangers..


 It seems to me that your friend has raised a valid question,  and that
 no one on the list will be able to answer this definitively.Apropos
 of hormone studies,  it seems that exogenous hormones can be quite
 harmful,  whereas endogenous hormones, enhanced by nutrition, and
 entirely beneficial.   Of course we can not generate silver
 endogenously,  but the point here is that there may be more natural
 ways of boosting immune function that would be much better, and safer
 in the long run, than taking large quantities of EIS.

 I myself have a hunch that supplementation with CS should be done with
 caution if carried out on a regular basis,  not out of concern for
 argyria,  but simply because I think no one can be certain that the
 question raised below is irrelevant.My own layman's intuition is
 that if carried out on a regular basis,  the supplementation should be
 at a low level aimed at creating a natural level that might be
 obtained by consuming foods and drinking water in which silver might
 ordinarily be present.There are some postings about this in the
 archives I think.

 I stress that I am not a clinician or professional scientist,  and
 think that even if I were,  I might not be able to provide any more
 insight than anyone else.I doubt that large clinical studies will
 ever be carried out,  and without those,  anything one says is, from a
 scientific point of view,  merely speculative or at best hypothetical.




 On Friday, Sep 3, 2004, at 01:07 Asia/Tokyo, David wrote:

  I have a question I hope someone has an answer or some
  thoughts on.  I pretty much preach CS to my friends
  telling them the health benefits.  I am a firm
  believer in taking a lot as I know it isn't going to
  hurt me and only help.  One of my friends brought out
  a point I never thought about and I am not sure how
  valid of an argument this is.   She sees the benefits
  of taking a small amount of CS to support her immune
  system but she says by taking too much CS, even taking
  it everyday, it (the CS) becomes your immune system
  and suppresses the body's natural ability to become
  immune to things it comes in contact with from day to
  day.  Is this really a danger or concern we should
  have?
 
 
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Re: CSCs dangers..NOT

2004-09-02 Thread Jonathan B. Britten

Hi, Trem,

I think that time may well prove that your approach is a valid one,  
but I certainly could not advise any one to imitate,  nor could I 
advise them not to.


Probably the best way for individuals to make their own determination 
would be through Omura's  Bi-Digital O-Ring test,  but there are very 
few trained clinicians who use it.Other neurological kinesiology 
methods would be the next best bet I think.


No one can account for biochemical individuality,  and even the same 
highly-tested prescription drugs have different effects on different 
patients. Thus the need for non-protocol medicine.





On Friday, Sep 3, 2004, at 11:02 Asia/Tokyo, Trem wrote:


Hi Jonathan,

I used to think along the same lines as you but about a year ago I 
changed

my mind.

Since one of every three of us in the U.S. is going to develop cancer 
in our
lifetimes and I discovered that CS causes cancer cells to 
dedifferentiate

and return to normal, I decided to up my daily dosage to 8 ounces.

Cancers all start small so I suspect that if one starts to get one it 
will

be nipped in the bud by CS before they notice it.

My take is that it would be better for me to stay well as far as colds,
flu's and other infections as well as be able to stop cancer before it 
gets

a foothold.

Over 6 years now with no infections.  Not a record but one heck of an
average.  Praise CS!!

Trem

- Original Message -
From: Jonathan B. Britten jbrit...@cc.nakamura-u.ac.jp
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 6:34 PM
Subject: Re: CSCs dangers..



It seems to me that your friend has raised a valid question,  and that
no one on the list will be able to answer this definitively.
Apropos

of hormone studies,  it seems that exogenous hormones can be quite
harmful,  whereas endogenous hormones, enhanced by nutrition, and
entirely beneficial.   Of course we can not generate silver
endogenously,  but the point here is that there may be more natural
ways of boosting immune function that would be much better, and safer
in the long run, than taking large quantities of EIS.

I myself have a hunch that supplementation with CS should be done with
caution if carried out on a regular basis,  not out of concern for
argyria,  but simply because I think no one can be certain that the
question raised below is irrelevant.My own layman's intuition is
that if carried out on a regular basis,  the supplementation should be
at a low level aimed at creating a natural level that might be
obtained by consuming foods and drinking water in which silver might
ordinarily be present.There are some postings about this in the
archives I think.

I stress that I am not a clinician or professional scientist,  and
think that even if I were,  I might not be able to provide any more
insight than anyone else.I doubt that large clinical studies will
ever be carried out,  and without those,  anything one says is, from a
scientific point of view,  merely speculative or at best hypothetical.




On Friday, Sep 3, 2004, at 01:07 Asia/Tokyo, David wrote:


I have a question I hope someone has an answer or some
thoughts on.  I pretty much preach CS to my friends
telling them the health benefits.  I am a firm
believer in taking a lot as I know it isn't going to
hurt me and only help.  One of my friends brought out
a point I never thought about and I am not sure how
valid of an argument this is.   She sees the benefits
of taking a small amount of CS to support her immune
system but she says by taking too much CS, even taking
it everyday, it (the CS) becomes your immune system
and suppresses the body's natural ability to become
immune to things it comes in contact with from day to
day.  Is this really a danger or concern we should
have?


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CSCs dangers..

2004-09-01 Thread Matthew McCann
In the 1920s and 1930s some researchers of
pathways of silver administered intravenously
used rabbits, long-haired bunnies bred to be
shorn easily.

Re: CSCs dangers/naked mice

2004-08-31 Thread Nenah Sylver
   So, where does one get naked mice?
   Just kidding!
  
   Frank Key


As I recall, there is actually a breed of hairless mice.

There is one breed of hairless dog that I have seen. It's kind of funny-looking;
I don't remember what it's called.

Nenah



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Re: CSCs dangers/naked mice

2004-08-31 Thread Denise Rollheiser
cuold you be thinking of the Chinese Crested Dog?

Denise
Saskatoon, SK  Canada
neec...@sasktel.net

- Original Message -
From: Nenah Sylver ne...@bestweb.net
 
 As I recall, there is actually a breed of hairless mice.
 
 There is one breed of hairless dog that I have seen. It's kind of 
 funny-looking;
 I don't remember what it's called.


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Re: CSCs dangers/naked mice

2004-08-31 Thread T J Garland
We have a new $40 million mouse house here in Oak Ridge for breeding pure
strains of lab mice. I have a friend that delivers them  to research centers
all over the US in a van. He just a pair of very expensive  mice in his new
van somewhere in CA.  TJ
- Original Message -
From: Nenah Sylver ne...@bestweb.net
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: CSCs dangers/naked mice


So, where does one get naked mice?
Just kidding!
   
Frank Key


 As I recall, there is actually a breed of hairless mice.

 There is one breed of hairless dog that I have seen. It's kind of
funny-looking;
 I don't remember what it's called.

 Nenah



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CSCs dangers..

2004-08-30 Thread Matthew McCann
Dear Frank and Jonathan,

Thank you very much for your contributions on this
topic!

Matthew

Re: CSCs dangers..

2004-08-30 Thread Marshall Dudley
It is silver citrate, which will not only cause argyria, but is the only form of
silver that is thought to possibly cross the blood brain barrier.  I would not
touch it.

Marshall

sol wrote:

 Frank, and Jason,
 Have test results shown that Water Oz silver product to be a pure EIS
 type product or is it a silver salt or MSP of some kind? I am unclear
 about this.
 TIA,
 sol

 Jason Eaton wrote:

 As far as silver goes, Hinkson is not qualified to have an opinion.  He
 sells a product that we know can cause argyria, and while over the past few
 years, they've been reducing the PPM of their retail product, it is still
 not marketed honestly.
 
 Best Regards,
 
 Jason
 
 
 
 

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Re: CSCs dangers..

2004-08-30 Thread Marshall Dudley
If you are doing any naked mice studies, here is one that I would really like
to see done.

Give one mouse a silver compound, such as silver nitrate, or silver oxide.
Take decanted CS, and add a like amount of silver compound to it and give it
to another mouse.

Expose both to sunlight (or long wave UV) and see if only the first one turns
blue, or if both turn blue.

Marshall

Jonathan B. Britten wrote:

 I would like to add that Mr. Key has graciously explained a method by
 which home brewers can,  if they wish,  produce a primarily particulate
 (colloidal)  silver product by using ordinary salt, and decanting the
 clear liquid that remains above the precipitated silver chloride.

 As a layman,  I am not yet able to weight all the arguments -- highly
 technical and much disputed -- about the relative merits of
 ionic/colloidal silver,  but I do like being able to know that I can
 obtain a low-cost colloid through some simple home chemistry,  and I
 appreciate the openness of Mr. Key in providing that information to the
 list.

 In future I may have a chance of being able to do some experiments that
 would compare primarily ionic vs. particulate products in a straight
 longevity study on short-lived rodents.   (No sacrificing of the
 animals in my proposed study;  it would determine only whether or not
 either type of product produced any statistically significant longevity
 changes, in whichever direction,  as compared to ordinary distilled
 water.)All very tentative for now, alas.

 JBB

 On Monday, Aug 30, 2004, at 12:58 Asia/Tokyo, Frank Key wrote:

  Matthew wrote:
 
  Would you say then that the chief reason to use colloidal
  (particulate) silver instead of dissolved (ionic) silver is
  to minimize the risk of argyria?
 
  The 100 ppm concentration is a factor. Other factors such as dosage\
  volume and body mass are equally important
  too, aren't they? And what about total surface area of the
  particulates?
 
  My position is expressed on the following pages:
 
  http://www.silver-colloids.com/Reports/reports.html
  http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/Howtocompare.html
  http://www.silver-colloids.com/Pubs/AboutIonic.html
 
  Frank Key
  www.ColloidalScienceLab.com
 
 
 
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Re: CSCs dangers..

2004-08-30 Thread Frank Key

Marshal wrote:



If you are doing any naked mice studies, here is one that I would really 
like

to see done...



So, where does one get naked mice?


Just kidding!

Frank Key 




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Re: CSCs dangers..

2004-08-30 Thread Jim Wright (Lists)

Maybe shave 'em first???

Jim Wright

Frank Key wrote:


Marshal wrote:

If you are doing any naked mice studies, here is one that I would 
really like

to see done...


So, where does one get naked mice?
Just kidding!

Frank Key



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Re: CSCs dangers..

2004-08-29 Thread Frank Key

Grant wrote:

David Hinkson explains it quite well when he says colloidal anything is 
not

ionic or angstrom in size and will lodge in the tissues eventually causing
problems. CS is good for killing bacteria on contact but then so is H2O2.


Interestingly enough, David Hinkson, the founder of WaterOZ suffers from 
argyria he got from using the Ionic Silver product produced by his own 
company. High concentrations (100 ppm) of ionic silver will cause argyria.


Frank Key
www.ColloidalScienceLab.com



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Re: CSCs dangers..

2004-08-29 Thread Jason Eaton
Hi Grant:

Anyone who listens to David Hinkson is a glutton for punishment.

However, it, sadly, appears as if David is going to be spending a long time
behind bars ( I don't wish such an experience on anyone ).

I've personally fought with his staff, as they have not been pleased with
my evaluation of their very own silver product.

I know that he has a lot of followers, but I've been watching his crew for
a long time.  Keep in mind that Water OZ started out in Las Vegas, and
I've had the opportunity to talk with those who associated with him before
he ran from Las Vegas under the threat of prosecution.

I think Hinkson's heart is in the right place, and many of their products
might be just wonderful.  But Hinkson is in the business of defrauding the
public, and sadly, he's going to jail for it among other things.  I consider
it defrauding the public when a company refuses to disclose vital
information about products that may effect the health of its users.

As far as silver goes, Hinkson is not qualified to have an opinion.  He
sells a product that we know can cause argyria, and while over the past few
years, they've been reducing the PPM of their retail product, it is still
not marketed honestly.

Best Regards,

Jason


- Original Message -
From: Grant nes...@shaw.ca
To: Silver - List silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 7:04 PM
Subject: CSCs dangers..


 Hi list:
  I personally have been taking c/s internally for approx 5 years
now.
 I recieved  the following snip from another alt. medicine list I belong to
 referring to dangers of taking  c/s internally. Can anyone of the great
Gurus
 we have on our list offer any comments.?? And  how much validity should
one
  attach to the  this info..???

 Anyone
   Thanks ...Grant..
 **
 Snip..

 David Hinkson explains it quite well when he says colloidal anything is
not
 ionic or angstrom in size and will lodge in the tissues eventually causing
 problems. CS is good for killing bacteria on contact but then so is H2O2.


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Re: CSCs dangers..

2004-08-29 Thread sol


Frank, and Jason,
Have test results shown that Water Oz silver product to be a pure EIS 
type product or is it a silver salt or MSP of some kind? I am unclear 
about this.

TIA,
sol

Jason Eaton wrote:


As far as silver goes, Hinkson is not qualified to have an opinion.  He
sells a product that we know can cause argyria, and while over the past few
years, they've been reducing the PPM of their retail product, it is still
not marketed honestly.

Best Regards,

Jason


 





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CSCs dangers..

2004-08-29 Thread Matthew McCann
Hello, Frank,

Would you say then that the chief reason to use colloidal
(particulate) silver instead of dissolved (ionic) silver is
to minimize the risk of argyria?

The 100 ppm concentration is a factor. Other factors such as dosage volume and 
body mass are equally important
too, aren't they? And what about total surface area of the
particulates?

Best regards,

Matthew



Re: CSCs dangers..

2004-08-29 Thread Frank Key

Sol wrote:


Frank, and Jason,
Have test results shown that Water Oz silver product to be a pure EIS 
type product or is it a silver salt or MSP of some kind? I am unclear 


WaterOZ Ionic Silver is silver citrate, at 100 ppm silver, last we tested.

Frank Key
www.ColloidalScienceLab.com


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Re: CSCs dangers..

2004-08-29 Thread Frank Key

Matthew wrote:


Would you say then that the chief reason to use colloidal
(particulate) silver instead of dissolved (ionic) silver is
to minimize the risk of argyria?



The 100 ppm concentration is a factor. Other factors such as dosage\
volume and body mass are equally important
too, aren't they? And what about total surface area of the
particulates?


My position is expressed on the following pages:

http://www.silver-colloids.com/Reports/reports.html
http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/Howtocompare.html
http://www.silver-colloids.com/Pubs/AboutIonic.html

Frank Key
www.ColloidalScienceLab.com



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Re: CSCs dangers..

2004-08-29 Thread Nathan Filyk
Most of the bad stuff said about Colloidal Silver is poorly researched and 
mostly unfounded propoganda that the medical establishment use to discredit it.
 
So many people take CS with great benefit and no serious side effects; why 
would you worry?
 
~Nathan

twllLL twl...@direcway.com wrote:
Most CS made by modern means is ionic.
- Original Message - 
From: Grant 
To: Silver - List 
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 10:04 PM
Subject: CSCs dangers..


 Hi list:
 I personally have been taking c/s internally for approx 5 years
now.
 I recieved the following snip from another alt. medicine list I belong to
 referring to dangers of taking c/s internally. Can anyone of the great
Gurus
 we have on our list offer any comments.?? And how much validity should
one
 attach to the this info..???

 Anyone
 Thanks ...Grant..
 **
 Snip..

 David Hinkson explains it quite well when he says colloidal anything is
not
 ionic or angstrom in size and will lodge in the tissues eventually causing
 problems. CS is good for killing bacteria on contact but then so is H2O2.


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Re: CSCs dangers..

2004-08-29 Thread twllLL
Most CS made by modern means is ionic.
- Original Message - 
From: Grant nes...@shaw.ca
To: Silver - List silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 10:04 PM
Subject: CSCs dangers..


 Hi list:
  I personally have been taking c/s internally for approx 5 years
now.
 I recieved  the following snip from another alt. medicine list I belong to
 referring to dangers of taking  c/s internally. Can anyone of the great
Gurus
 we have on our list offer any comments.?? And  how much validity should
one
  attach to the  this info..???

 Anyone
   Thanks ...Grant..
 **
 Snip..

 David Hinkson explains it quite well when he says colloidal anything is
not
 ionic or angstrom in size and will lodge in the tissues eventually causing
 problems. CS is good for killing bacteria on contact but then so is H2O2.


 --
 The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.

 Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org

 To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

 Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com
 OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html

 List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com





CSCs dangers..

2004-08-28 Thread Grant

Hi list:
I personally have been taking c/s internally for approx 5 years now. 
I recieved  the following snip from another alt. medicine list I belong to

referring to dangers of taking  c/s internally. Can anyone of the great Gurus
we have on our list offer any comments.?? And  how much validity should one 
attach to the  this info..???


Anyone 
 Thanks ...Grant..

**
Snip..

David Hinkson explains it quite well when he says colloidal anything is not
ionic or angstrom in size and will lodge in the tissues eventually causing
problems. CS is good for killing bacteria on contact but then so is H2O2. 



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Re: CSCs dangers..

2004-08-28 Thread Marshall Dudley
If it can get through the stomach wall, then it is not going to get lodged in 
any
tissue. The body is constructed better than that, if it were not, lodges 
minerals
would decimate it in short order.  If it can get in, it can get out. The only
problem is if a crystal GROWS while in the tissue.

Marshall

Grant wrote:

 Hi list:
  I personally have been taking c/s internally for approx 5 years now.
 I recieved  the following snip from another alt. medicine list I belong to
 referring to dangers of taking  c/s internally. Can anyone of the great 
 Gurus
 we have on our list offer any comments.?? And  how much validity should one
  attach to the  this info..???

 Anyone
   Thanks ...Grant..
 **
 Snip..

 David Hinkson explains it quite well when he says colloidal anything is not
 ionic or angstrom in size and will lodge in the tissues eventually causing
 problems. CS is good for killing bacteria on contact but then so is H2O2.

 --
 The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.

 Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org

 To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

 Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com
 OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html

 List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com