Re: CSusing microwave parts
A very useful description and schematic of the microwave circuitry called: The Microwave Oven Voltage-Doubler Circuit Used in the High Voltage Circuits of Commercial Residential Microwave Ovens is shown at: http://www.gallawa.com/microtech/doubler.html This is very useful to insure that you know what is going on if you are using the converted microwave oven for CS making. My impression is that, unlike the high voltage capacitor in the TV, the capacitor in the microwave usually has a bleeder resistor of some sort in parallel so that it will discharge over a (relatively) short period of time. Also, as long as the circuit has continuity, and the electrodes are in the water cell, it should bleed off across the cell as well. Still, be cautious. If you don't know something about electricity, definitely don't do this. Dan On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 3:27 PM, cking...@nycap.rr.com wrote: Marshall Duncan's HVDC generator from microwave parts (scroll down a bit) http://members.shaw.ca/duncancrow/colloidal_silver.html It's what I use now, after going thru the various stages we've used including HVAC. Not for the careless or electrically unknowledgeable. Chuck If all the economists in the world were laid end to end, they'd point in different directions On 7/30/2009 11:46:08 AM, Marshall Dudley (mdud...@king-cart.com) wrote: Using microwave parts is extremely dangerous. The voltages are high, the capacitances big, and currents unlimited. There has been some discussion of using microwave transformers, but I thought those were for HVAC not HVDC. I see no way to produce small particle CS using high voltage DC as the currents would be way over the optimum of 1 mA/in^2 Marshall Pierre Genton wrote: Hi- I am new to the group here. I was referred to this list by a fellow who says there was some experience here amongst your ranks using microwave transformers and capacitors etc to make CS using high voltage DC. I wanted to go to the archives to have a look around but that section is not functioning at the moment and so I thought I'd just ask the group instead. I have been using low dc Volt system for making a fine quality CS for 5 years already. Because of demand from family and friends I need to increase my production. I found some instructions on the internet from a kind fellow on how to connect the microwave components together to create such a system but not much more details then that unfortunately. I tri No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.36/2272 - Release Date: 07/30/09 05:58:00 -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSusing microwave parts
Aren't there two different approaches to the high voltage CS making? One uses an arc, producing more colloidal particles, and one uses the electrodes further apart to produce ionic CS quickly with the high voltage potential. Which one are you referring to? Dan On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 11:36 AM, Marshall Dudleymdud...@king-cart.com wrote: For the high voltage generation of CS, you use very small electrodes, not large ones. You use large ones for low voltage CS. The trick it to get the high density of silver ions away from the electrode before they can aggregate sufficiently. For low voltage that is done by Browning movement and stirring, thus the very limited 1 mA per square inch. For high voltage systems, you want a huge gradient near the electrode, so that the ions are sucked away from the electrode by the electric field. I am not sure what size you would want for 500 volts, but for 10,000 volts I found that the electrodes should be about .03 square inch each. With the system I was using with 100 mA of current, that gave a density of about 3 amps per square inch. I am not sure 450 volts is enough to provide the necessary gradient to prevent larger particle size. The way I kept the electrode that small was to feed some 14 gauge silver wire into glass tubes, and only allow about 1/8 inch to protrude from the end under the water. Then I mounted it so that the tip of the two electrodes were about 1 inch apart. You may find that keeping it cool is a problem because of the high power. Marshall Pierre Genton wrote: Thanks for the warning about the cap. I made sure I discharged that before going into the electronics too far. Yes, I heard that the microwave electronics produced pulsed DC. At this stage I am looking for evidence of the system being able to produce small enough particles before I have a large electrode fabricated just for the purpose. Just seems I couldn't make a big enough electrode practically to be able to make small particles but I don't really know. Boy sure would be good to make a fine quality CS this way since it is so fast at a quart under 2 minutes . However safety and quality are the main requirements for any system and product. Thanks for the tips and any other comments on this or other systems are welcomed. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSusing microwave parts
There are three ways I know of to do HVAC, actually. The arc method is the one most likely to produce undesirable nitrogen-based compounds, so I haven't tried it. Then there is the immersion method (both electrodes fully immersed), which according to Ol' Bob Berger is limited to producing maybe 5 or so ppm. Finally there's the cone method, in which one electrode is fully immersed and the other is placed just close enough to the surface of the water to raise it into a cone which envelopes the electrode when power is applied to the circuit. The cone method produces the most best result IMO, and is good for around 20 ppm, with more particulate content than is possible with LVDC. But you have to check on it every couple of hours, or as the water evaporates the cone will become an arc. Also the lid (I use a glass lid) has to be dried periodically, or you can get a corona discharge (diffuse version of arcing which is harder to detect). Personally, I use and recommend the HVAC cone method. But it does take caution and vigilance, so may not be for everyone. As for the ideal electrode sizes, I'm sure others here would know more about it than I. I seem to have hit on a combination that works and haven't experimented much with it. -- indi On Sat, Aug 01, 2009 at 07:04:52PM -0500, Dan Nave wrote: Aren't there two different approaches to the high voltage CS making? One uses an arc, producing more colloidal particles, and one uses the electrodes further apart to produce ionic CS quickly with the high voltage potential. Which one are you referring to? Dan On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 11:36 AM, Marshall Dudleymdud...@king-cart.com wrote: For the high voltage generation of CS, you use very small electrodes, not large ones. You use large ones for low voltage CS. The trick it to get the high density of silver ions away from the electrode before they can aggregate sufficiently. For low voltage that is done by Browning movement and stirring, thus the very limited 1 mA per square inch. For high voltage systems, you want a huge gradient near the electrode, so that the ions are sucked away from the electrode by the electric field. I am not sure what size you would want for 500 volts, but for 10,000 volts I found that the electrodes should be about .03 square inch each. With the system I was using with 100 mA of current, that gave a density of about 3 amps per square inch. I am not sure 450 volts is enough to provide the necessary gradient to prevent larger particle size. The way I kept the electrode that small was to feed some 14 gauge silver wire into glass tubes, and only allow about 1/8 inch to protrude from the end under the water. Then I mounted it so that the tip of the two electrodes were about 1 inch apart. You may find that keeping it cool is a problem because of the high power. Marshall Pierre Genton wrote: Thanks for the warning about the cap. I made sure I discharged that before going into the electronics too far. Yes, I heard that the microwave electronics produced pulsed DC. At this stage I am looking for evidence of the system being able to produce small enough particles before I have a large electrode fabricated just for the purpose. Just seems I couldn't make a big enough electrode practically to be able to make small particles but I don't really know. Boy sure would be good to make a fine quality CS this way since it is so fast at a quart under 2 minutes . However safety and quality are the main requirements for any system and product. Thanks for the tips and any other comments on this or other systems are welcomed. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSusing microwave parts
A microwave magnetron runs on HVDC and the box has a power level function to pulse it. Watch that cap! [ZAP] Ode At 11:46 AM 7/30/2009 -0400, you wrote: Using microwave parts is extremely dangerous. The voltages are high, the capacitances big, and currents unlimited. There has been some discussion of using microwave transformers, but I thought those were for HVAC not HVDC. I see no way to produce small particle CS using high voltage DC as the currents would be way over the optimum of 1 mA/in^2 Marshall Pierre Genton wrote: Hi- I am new to the group here. I was referred to this list by a fellow who says there was some experience here amongst your ranks using microwave transformers and capacitors etc to make CS using high voltage DC. I wanted to go to the archives to have a look around but that section is not functioning at the moment and so I thought I'd just ask the group instead. I have been using low dc Volt system for making a fine quality CS for 5 years already. Because of demand from family and friends I need to increase my production. I found some instructions on the internet from a kind fellow on how to connect the microwave components together to create such a system but not much more details then that unfortunately. I tried it and the initial results are encouraging. I only have a TDS meter on hand and so am not really sure about the quality of the product. Also I only had wire type of electrodes and did not have the wider pieces of silver and so I fear I am making too large of particles. Has anybody here used this type of system and if so have they had their product analyzed for true ppm, particle size and % of ionic/colloid content etc. ? any information on this will be appreciated. best regards, PG50 -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSusing microwave parts
Thanks for the warning about the cap. I made sure I discharged that before going into the electronics too far. Yes, I heard that the microwave electronics produced pulsed DC. At this stage I am looking for evidence of the system being able to produce small enough particles before I have a large electrode fabricated just for the purpose. Just seems I couldn't make a big enough electrode practically to be able to make small particles but I don't really know. Boy sure would be good to make a fine quality CS this way since it is so fast at a quart under 2 minutes . However safety and quality are the main requirements for any system and product. Thanks for the tips and any other comments on this or other systems are welcomed. On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Ode Coyote odecoy...@windstream.netwrote: A microwave magnetron runs on HVDC and the box has a power level function to pulse it. Watch that cap! [ZAP] Ode At 11:46 AM 7/30/2009 -0400, you wrote: Using microwave parts is extremely dangerous. The voltages are high, the capacitances big, and currents unlimited. There has been some discussion of using microwave transformers, but I thought those were for HVAC not HVDC. I see no way to produce small particle CS using high voltage DC as the currents would be way over the optimum of 1 mA/in^2 Marshall Pierre Genton wrote: Hi- I am new to the group here. I was referred to this list by a fellow who says there was some experience here amongst your ranks using microwave transformers and capacitors etc to make CS using high voltage DC. I wanted to go to the archives to have a look around but that section is not functioning at the moment and so I thought I'd just ask the group instead. I have been using low dc Volt system for making a fine quality CS for 5 years already. Because of demand from family and friends I need to increase my production. I found some instructions on the internet from a kind fellow on how to connect the microwave components together to create such a system but not much more details then that unfortunately. I tried it and the initial results are encouraging. I only have a TDS meter on hand and so am not really sure about the quality of the product. Also I only had wire type of electrodes and did not have the wider pieces of silver and so I fear I am making too large of particles. Has anybody here used this type of system and if so have they had their product analyzed for true ppm, particle size and % of ionic/colloid content etc. ? any information on this will be appreciated. best regards, PG50 -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSusing microwave parts
For the high voltage generation of CS, you use very small electrodes, not large ones. You use large ones for low voltage CS. The trick it to get the high density of silver ions away from the electrode before they can aggregate sufficiently. For low voltage that is done by Browning movement and stirring, thus the very limited 1 mA per square inch. For high voltage systems, you want a huge gradient near the electrode, so that the ions are sucked away from the electrode by the electric field. I am not sure what size you would want for 500 volts, but for 10,000 volts I found that the electrodes should be about .03 square inch each. With the system I was using with 100 mA of current, that gave a density of about 3 amps per square inch. I am not sure 450 volts is enough to provide the necessary gradient to prevent larger particle size. The way I kept the electrode that small was to feed some 14 gauge silver wire into glass tubes, and only allow about 1/8 inch to protrude from the end under the water. Then I mounted it so that the tip of the two electrodes were about 1 inch apart. You may find that keeping it cool is a problem because of the high power. Marshall Pierre Genton wrote: Thanks for the warning about the cap. I made sure I discharged that before going into the electronics too far. Yes, I heard that the microwave electronics produced pulsed DC. At this stage I am looking for evidence of the system being able to produce small enough particles before I have a large electrode fabricated just for the purpose. Just seems I couldn't make a big enough electrode practically to be able to make small particles but I don't really know. Boy sure would be good to make a fine quality CS this way since it is so fast at a quart under 2 minutes . However safety and quality are the main requirements for any system and product. Thanks for the tips and any other comments on this or other systems are welcomed. On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Ode Coyote odecoy...@windstream.net mailto:odecoy...@windstream.net wrote: A microwave magnetron runs on HVDC and the box has a power level function to pulse it. Watch that cap! [ZAP] Ode At 11:46 AM 7/30/2009 -0400, you wrote: Using microwave parts is extremely dangerous. The voltages are high, the capacitances big, and currents unlimited. There has been some discussion of using microwave transformers, but I thought those were for HVAC not HVDC. I see no way to produce small particle CS using high voltage DC as the currents would be way over the optimum of 1 mA/in^2 Marshall Pierre Genton wrote: Hi- I am new to the group here. I was referred to this list by a fellow who says there was some experience here amongst your ranks using microwave transformers and capacitors etc to make CS using high voltage DC. I wanted to go to the archives to have a look around but that section is not functioning at the moment and so I thought I'd just ask the group instead. I have been using low dc Volt system for making a fine quality CS for 5 years already. Because of demand from family and friends I need to increase my production. I found some instructions on the internet from a kind fellow on how to connect the microwave components together to create such a system but not much more details then that unfortunately. I tried it and the initial results are encouraging. I only have a TDS meter on hand and so am not really sure about the quality of the product. Also I only had wire type of electrodes and did not have the wider pieces of silver and so I fear I am making too large of particles. Has anybody here used this type of system and if so have they had their product analyzed for true ppm, particle size and % of ionic/colloid content etc. ? any information on this will be appreciated. best regards, PG50 -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com mailto:silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSusing microwave parts
Marshall- That is really great information. I was told that I required 'bigger' electrodes and not smaller ones.?? Now that I think about it all HVAC systems do seem to have skinny tiny bits of electrodes sticking out of glass tubes just as you describe it. I am not sure what the voltage I am using is but it is somewhere between 3 and 6,000 volts DC. My max amp draw was 3 to 400ma using 14 guage wires submerged about 5 inches each. and yes, things do heat up in hurry that is for sure. I will have to run some more tests again now but this time exposing only a tiny bit of the electrodes as you suggest. A good weekend project. many thanks On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 11:36 PM, Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.comwrote: For the high voltage generation of CS, you use very small electrodes, not large ones. You use large ones for low voltage CS. The trick it to get the high density of silver ions away from the electrode before they can aggregate sufficiently. For low voltage that is done by Browning movement and stirring, thus the very limited 1 mA per square inch. For high voltage systems, you want a huge gradient near the electrode, so that the ions are sucked away from the electrode by the electric field. I am not sure what size you would want for 500 volts, but for 10,000 volts I found that the electrodes should be about .03 square inch each. With the system I was using with 100 mA of current, that gave a density of about 3 amps per square inch. I am not sure 450 volts is enough to provide the necessary gradient to prevent larger particle size. The way I kept the electrode that small was to feed some 14 gauge silver wire into glass tubes, and only allow about 1/8 inch to protrude from the end under the water. Then I mounted it so that the tip of the two electrodes were about 1 inch apart. You may find that keeping it cool is a problem because of the high power. Marshall Pierre Genton wrote: Thanks for the warning about the cap. I made sure I discharged that before going into the electronics too far. Yes, I heard that the microwave electronics produced pulsed DC. At this stage I am looking for evidence of the system being able to produce small enough particles before I have a large electrode fabricated just for the purpose. Just seems I couldn't make a big enough electrode practically to be able to make small particles but I don't really know. Boy sure would be good to make a fine quality CS this way since it is so fast at a quart under 2 minutes . However safety and quality are the main requirements for any system and product. Thanks for the tips and any other comments on this or other systems are welcomed. On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Ode Coyote odecoy...@windstream.netmailto: odecoy...@windstream.net wrote: A microwave magnetron runs on HVDC and the box has a power level function to pulse it. Watch that cap! [ZAP] Ode At 11:46 AM 7/30/2009 -0400, you wrote: Using microwave parts is extremely dangerous. The voltages are high, the capacitances big, and currents unlimited. There has been some discussion of using microwave transformers, but I thought those were for HVAC not HVDC. I see no way to produce small particle CS using high voltage DC as the currents would be way over the optimum of 1 mA/in^2 Marshall Pierre Genton wrote: Hi- I am new to the group here. I was referred to this list by a fellow who says there was some experience here amongst your ranks using microwave transformers and capacitors etc to make CS using high voltage DC. I wanted to go to the archives to have a look around but that section is not functioning at the moment and so I thought I'd just ask the group instead. I have been using low dc Volt system for making a fine quality CS for 5 years already. Because of demand from family and friends I need to increase my production. I found some instructions on the internet from a kind fellow on how to connect the microwave components together to create such a system but not much more details then that unfortunately. I tried it and the initial results are encouraging. I only have a TDS meter on hand and so am not really sure about the quality of the product. Also I only had wire type of electrodes and did not have the wider pieces of silver and so I fear I am making too large of particles. Has anybody here used this type of system and if so have they had their product analyzed for true ppm, particle size and % of ionic/colloid content etc. ? any information on this will be appreciated. best regards, PG50 --
Re: CSusing microwave parts
Using microwave parts is extremely dangerous. The voltages are high, the capacitances big, and currents unlimited. There has been some discussion of using microwave transformers, but I thought those were for HVAC not HVDC. I see no way to produce small particle CS using high voltage DC as the currents would be way over the optimum of 1 mA/in^2 Marshall Pierre Genton wrote: Hi- I am new to the group here. I was referred to this list by a fellow who says there was some experience here amongst your ranks using microwave transformers and capacitors etc to make CS using high voltage DC. I wanted to go to the archives to have a look around but that section is not functioning at the moment and so I thought I'd just ask the group instead. I have been using low dc Volt system for making a fine quality CS for 5 years already. Because of demand from family and friends I need to increase my production. I found some instructions on the internet from a kind fellow on how to connect the microwave components together to create such a system but not much more details then that unfortunately. I tried it and the initial results are encouraging. I only have a TDS meter on hand and so am not really sure about the quality of the product. Also I only had wire type of electrodes and did not have the wider pieces of silver and so I fear I am making too large of particles. Has anybody here used this type of system and if so have they had their product analyzed for true ppm, particle size and % of ionic/colloid content etc. ? any information on this will be appreciated. best regards, PG50 -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSusing microwave parts
Marshall Duncan's HVDC generator from microwave parts (scroll down a bit) http://members.shaw.ca/duncancrow/colloidal_silver.html It's what I use now, after going thru the various stages we've used including HVAC. Not for the careless or electrically unknowledgeable. Chuck If all the economists in the world were laid end to end, they'd point in different directions On 7/30/2009 11:46:08 AM, Marshall Dudley (mdud...@king-cart.com) wrote: Using microwave parts is extremely dangerous. The voltages are high, the capacitances big, and currents unlimited. There has been some discussion of using microwave transformers, but I thought those were for HVAC not HVDC. I see no way to produce small particle CS using high voltage DC as the currents would be way over the optimum of 1 mA/in^2 Marshall Pierre Genton wrote: Hi- I am new to the group here. I was referred to this list by a fellow who says there was some experience here amongst your ranks using microwave transformers and capacitors etc to make CS using high voltage DC. I wanted to go to the archives to have a look around but that section is not functioning at the moment and so I thought I'd just ask the group instead. I have been using low dc Volt system for making a fine quality CS for 5 years already. Because of demand from family and friends I need to increase my production. I found some instructions on the internet from a kind fellow on how to connect the microwave components together to create such a system but not much more details then that unfortunately. I tri No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.36/2272 - Release Date: 07/30/09 05:58:00
Re: CSusing microwave parts
High voltage DC or AC is a different animal. I have made it successfully but it would take as long as LVDC CS. Increase the electrode size on LVDC and it would make allot faster. Using 2 1 ounce silver bars will produce a gallon every 2 hours under the right conditions. Other people on this list know more on using a using microwave transformers and capacitors etc to make CS that can help you if you chose to go that way. Unless you have the knowledge of taking a non working microwave oven apart and fixing it I would not attempt to do this. If you do ,gor for it. Sam L. On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 10:53 PM, Pierre Genton topie...@gmail.com wrote: Hi- I am new to the group here. I was referred to this list by a fellow who says there was some experience here amongst your ranks using microwave transformers and capacitors etc to make CS using high voltage DC. I wanted to go to the archives to have a look around but that section is not functioning at the moment and so I thought I'd just ask the group instead. I have been using low dc Volt system for making a fine quality CS for 5 years already. Because of demand from family and friends I need to increase my production. I found some instructions on the internet from a kind fellow on how to connect the microwave components together to create such a system but not much more details then that unfortunately. I tried it and the initial results are encouraging. I only have a TDS meter on hand and so am not really sure about the quality of the product. Also I only had wire type of electrodes and did not have the wider pieces of silver and so I fear I am making too large of particles. Has anybody here used this type of system and if so have they had their product analyzed for true ppm, particle size and % of ionic/colloid content etc. ? any information on this will be appreciated. best regards, PG50 -- A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you have.
CSusing microwave parts
Hi- I am new to the group here. I was referred to this list by a fellow who says there was some experience here amongst your ranks using microwave transformers and capacitors etc to make CS using high voltage DC. I wanted to go to the archives to have a look around but that section is not functioning at the moment and so I thought I'd just ask the group instead. I have been using low dc Volt system for making a fine quality CS for 5 years already. Because of demand from family and friends I need to increase my production. I found some instructions on the internet from a kind fellow on how to connect the microwave components together to create such a system but not much more details then that unfortunately. I tried it and the initial results are encouraging. I only have a TDS meter on hand and so am not really sure about the quality of the product. Also I only had wire type of electrodes and did not have the wider pieces of silver and so I fear I am making too large of particles. Has anybody here used this type of system and if so have they had their product analyzed for true ppm, particle size and % of ionic/colloid content etc. ? any information on this will be appreciated. best regards, PG50
