Re: [Simh] Rainbow100

[Bill Cunningham]

  - Original Message - 
  From: Timothe Litt 
  To: simh@trailing-edge.com 
  Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 12:06 PM
  Subject: Re: [Simh] Rainbow100



  On 19-Jul-17 23:23, Bill Cunningham wrote:

There's no simulator for DEC's first micro is there? Will there ever be 
one?

Bill



  That wouldn't be the Rainbow.

  There was the Harris/Intersil pdp-8 on a chip c.a 1975.  

  The DEC/WD LSI11 c.a. 1976 followed. 

  All these were in embedded systems.  The LSI-11 (and especially its 
follow-ons, the T/F/J11) were used in a number of DEC's storage and 
communications controllers, until ultimately replaced by VAXes.  (Yes, your VAX 
probably had more VAXes in the IO subsystem than you knew about.)  They were 
also very popular for third party embedded systems - from volume copiers to 
airport landing lights.  

  If by 'micro', you mean general purpose consumer packaged Intel architecture 
machine, that would be the Robin (VT180), which is a Z80 CPU with dual 5 1/4 
inch floppies, as a plugin board for the VT100.  CP/M.  Produced in the AD 
group, which Bob Glorioso managed at the time.  Released c.a. 1982.  The board 
had its origin as a model railroad controller created as a hobby project by an 
engineer in that group, and was brought in and adapted for the VT180 as a quick 
time-to-market  product.  (I subsequently subsequently re-adapted the board for 
something completely different - and learned the history a few years later.)

  The VT103 used the same idea, but with an LSI-11 backplane and T11 - TU58 
tapes & RT11.  But it was later, and not on the IA path.

  The Rainbow was the replacement for the VT180 (c.a. late 82/early 83), used 
RX50 diskettes and optionally, a st506 winchester drive.  It was part of the 
triplet of machines, which also included the Pro 350 (pdp11) and DECmate 
(PDP-8), that Ken Olsen pushed as the answer to the "cheap, poorly engineered" 
IBM PC.  Besides being over-designed for the market, all three suffered from 
being closed systems with hardware architectures different enough from the 
standards (IBM PC/QBus/Omibus) to disable commodity software.  Especially the 
Pro350, with its lobotomized P/OS operating system (RSX with a horrible GUI) 
and limited menu of application software.  (Eventually, RT was released, but 
too little, to late.)  The DECmate never pretended to be anything other than a 
word processor.  Ken's belief that quality would overcome price in this market 
turned out to be very wrong.  And locking out existing software made them niche 
products.

  Both the Rainbow and Pro got minor upgrades, then died.  The DECmate was the 
most successful of the three in that it did exactly what it set out to do; no 
more and no less.  It got larger winchester drives and some minor software 
updates, but basically kept chugging along until technology - Apple, 
WordPerfect (and eventually Word) - provided bitmapped fonts.  (But lost the 
gold-key UI in favor of the mouse...)

  I don't think there was any real volume for the PC devices until the 
DECstation IBM PC compatibles came along, which IIRC were undistinguished Tandy 
buy-outs.  

  And yes, the Z80 is a superset of the the Intel 8080, so perhaps you can 
argue that it's not strictly IA.  But the Rainbow included one (you could run 
CP/M on it, and it served as an I/O controller for the 8088).  And in any case, 
the VT180 fit the common definition of "micro" at the time.

  In any case, by no definition was the Rainbow "DEC's first micro".

  Ok go that from www.livingcomputers.org

  Bill
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[Simh] Rainbow100

[Bill Cunningham]

There's no simulator for DEC's first micro is there? Will there ever be one?

Bill
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Re: [Simh] PDP-8 and OS/8 assembly

[Bill Cunningham]

  - Original Message - 
  From: Ethan Dicks 
  To: simh@trailing-edge.com 
  Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 6:22 PM
  Subject: Re: [Simh] PDP-8 and OS/8 assembly


  On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 5:50 PM, Bill Cunningham <bill...@suddenlink.net> 
wrote:
  > I am reading a bit about the machine the PDP-8. 4K fortran I guess was
  > used,

  That was one option, yes.

  > there were 8 "registers" if that's right.

  Not sure where this is coming from...

  Oh I'm sorry I meant operation codes. 3 registers. I believe 8 opcodes.

  There's the 12-bit Accumulator and its associated LINK (carry) bit.
  Some models always have a 12-bit MQ (Multiplier Quotient) register,
  some get an MQ when the EAE is installed, and some never get it.
  There's a 12-bit Program Counter, and two extended field registers,
  either 1-bit, 2-bit (PDP-8/L) or 3-bit (many other models) if the
  memory extension hardware is installed (required to have over 4K)

  > And 12 bit words.

  Yes.

  > As far as languages here, is Macro-8 assembly language?

  Look for assemblers called PAL (PAL III and PAL8) and MACREL (though
  MACREL was a late addition)

  OK

  > Is there an assembler available for PDP-8? OS/8 preferrably but tss-8 or
  > anything would do?

  Plenty of assembler possibilities with OS/8.  I have no experience with TSS-8.

  http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/8391/PDP8-PALAssembly-Language/

  -ethan

  OK I see. The registers other than AC and the two others are all I've heard 
of. Where Do I ge this...

  https://www.grc.com/pdp-8/pdp-8.htm

  Pretty nice page. I just found it earlier.

  Bill
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[Simh] PDP-8 and OS/8 assembly

[Bill Cunningham]

I am reading a bit about the machine the PDP-8. 4K fortran I guess was 
used, there were 8 "registers" if that's right. And 12 bit words. As far as 
languages here, is Macro-8 assembly language? These assembly languages today 
are so complicated. I would like to look at assembly with such a simple 
machine. Of course with the toggles your coding in machine language. 

Is there an assembler available for PDP-8? OS/8 preferrably but tss-8 or 
anything would do?

Bill
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Re: [Simh] OS/8

[Bill Cunningham]

  - Original Message - 
  From: Clem Cole 
  To: Bill Cunningham 
  Cc: SIMH 
  Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 3:43 PM
  Subject: Re: [Simh] OS/8


  https://www.grc.com/pdp-8/docs/OS8_System_Reference_Manual.pdf


  Alright. Ok I see. Got it.

  Bill
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Re: [Simh] OS/8

[Bill Cunningham]

  - Original Message - 
  From: Bill Cunningham 
  To: simh@trailing-edge.com 
  Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 3:31 PM
  Subject: Re: [Simh] OS/8



- Original Message - 
From: Vince Mulhollon 
To: SIMH List 
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 3:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Simh] OS/8


On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 1:57 PM, Bill Cunningham <bill...@suddenlink.net> 
wrote:

  One thing I have noticed in simh's software kits repository, si that 
the OS/8 there doesn't seem to have any simh loading or preparation 
instructions for OS/8.


Find "OS/8 system reference manual" from bitsavers or whatever.  The 1973 
edition. AKA document name DEC-S8-OSRMA-A-D

Humm. I am looking here,

http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/dec/pdp8/os8/

Am I overlooking something?  don't see that code in the directory.

Bill

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Re: [Simh] OS/8

[Bill Cunningham]

  - Original Message - 
  From: Vince Mulhollon 
  To: SIMH List 
  Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 3:26 PM
  Subject: Re: [Simh] OS/8


  On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 1:57 PM, Bill Cunningham <bill...@suddenlink.net> 
wrote:

One thing I have noticed in simh's software kits repository, si that 
the OS/8 there doesn't seem to have any simh loading or preparation 
instructions for OS/8.


  Find "OS/8 system reference manual" from bitsavers or whatever.  The 1973 
edition. AKA document name DEC-S8-OSRMA-A-D


  Starts right off with bootstrapping your OS/8 from papertape. (also 
instructions for disk and dectape)


  I've always meant to implement this in my infinite spare time as TCL Expect 
macros to automate an install for testing and general messing around.


  Load RIM BIN.  Then a papertape of ODT I guess (A little fuzzy here).  Then 
you pick 1 of 3 device driver tapes (RK RF DF) and load that dude up.  Then 
load up the command decoder tape.  So three tapes total.  Then run at 0200 and 
that writes command decoder and ODT to the disk and gives you the famous . 
prompt.  Then you spend some time with ABSLDR, which boils down to R ABSLDR, 
load up PAL8 or whatever tape, then SAVE SYS PAL8 and repeat until you're all 
loaded up.


  The instructions are a bit vague in the intro "bootstraping OS8" at the start 
of the book.  Toward the middle there is a detailed man page for ABSLDR.


  You've probably seen appendix A an exhaustive explanation of RIM and BIN 
loader, perhaps as just an abstracted part.


  Its a tolerable good manual.  I've read worse. 

  Thanks much Vince. I have downloaded the 1974 manual in pdf. But only glanced 
through yesterday. I will look at bitsavers again.



  Bill


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[Simh] OS/8

[Bill Cunningham]

One thing I have noticed in simh's software kits repository, si that the 
OS/8 there doesn't seem to have any simh loading or preparation instructions 
for OS/8.

Bill
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Re: [Simh] simh & pdp-8 os-8 forums / help

[Bill Cunningham]

On 6/25/2017 5:18 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote:

On 2017-06-24 19:00, Robert Armstrong wrote:
   Have you read the OS/8 handbook?  It tells you pretty much 
everything there is to know about OS/8. You can find a copy on 
bitsavers,


http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/pdp8/os8/

I've never used the OS/8 image that comes with simh so I’m only 
guessing, but it sounds like it doesn't have a device driver for the 
printer (it's called a device "handler" in OS/8 lingo) installed.   
You'll need to install one.  It tells you how to do that in the 
handbook.


Correct.

Adding a device in simh is equivalent to putting the card in the 
backplane. That does not mean the OS automatically knows about it. You 
also need to configure the OS side of things.


Seriously - for the OP - you need to start by actually learning the 
OS, and not just fool around and expect things to just work, or other 
people tell you the obvious things.


The OS/8 handbook is really required reading before you ask any 
questions where OS/8 is involved.


Johnny

Yes Johnny I have looked at a few OSes from DEC days and the pdps 8 and 
11 are interesting I think. So I will spend some time with OS/8 and I 
think tts8 and maybe rx or rsx is pdp8. Anyway RSTS is a descendant of 
the PDP8 OSes. OS8 anyway.


Bill

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Re: [Simh] Getting SimH 4 past Beta stage?

[Bill Cunningham]

- Original Message - 
From: "Johnny Billquist" 

To: 
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2016 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Simh] Getting SimH 4 past Beta stage?

[...]

Right. But notice that his packaging system installed 3.8.1-5, so they 
are not even on 3.9...


   That's a shame. The *best* simulator out there.

Bill


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[Simh] alpha emulator

[Bill Cunningham]

   Ok since I have been told the alpha simh emulator isn't booting yet. I 
guess I have two questions:


o does anyone know when it should be complete or what's going on? Maybe I 
should check the main page or something.


o And two, is there any emulators that can be used until then? Something to 
run openVMS on.


Ty

Bill

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Re: [Simh] EXT : Integrity

[Bill Cunningham]

Oh I thought simh had a working alpha simulator. For a later version than 
vms7.3. OH I have a PAK for VAX oh yes.


- Original Message - 
From: "Hittner, David T (IS)" <david.hitt...@ngc.com>

To: "Bill Cunningham" <bill...@suddenlink.net>; <simh@trailing-edge.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 2:07 PM
Subject: RE: EXT :[Simh] Integrity


There is no Integrity [aka Itanium or IA-64] simulation in SIMH. You will 
have to use real hardware for your Hobbyist PAK.


The Alpha simulator is in development and does not boot yet.

The VAX simulation (and variants) are the only ones that can currently run 
VMS.


Sorry,
David Hittner

-Original Message-
From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Bill 
Cunningham

Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 1:56 PM
To: simh@trailing-edge.com
Subject: EXT :[Simh] Integrity

   What simh emulator is the "Integrity"? I have a VMS hobbyist PAK for it 
from HP.


Bill

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[Simh] Integrity

[Bill Cunningham]

   What simh emulator is the "Integrity"? I have a VMS hobbyist PAK for it 
from HP.


Bill

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[Simh] error

[Bill Cunningham]

   I am receiving this error code
?42 no such file

set rq0 cdrom
at rq0 openvms73.iso

Recently the file openvms73.iso which was bzip2'd was being uncompressed. 
bunzip2 said there was a problem. And use bzip2recover. Which I did. Of 
course there were many recovery files and as they were being created recover 
said there was something wrong.


   Then I used bunzip2 rec* > openvms73.iso and all the recovery files 
seemed to merge into openvms73.iso. Could there be a problem there? simh vax 
simulator isn't recognizing a file for some reason. Can I correct this?


Bill

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[Simh] simh development

[Bill Cunningham]

I seem to have remembered discussing this somewhere at sometime. I have 
googled and googled and don't know how to get in touch with Mark. Is there a 
.doc that is a tutorial to use simh as a API? I know I have seen something like 
that before.

Bill
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[Simh] (no subject)

[Bill Cunningham]

Mark and all,

Since you are going to add TU-58 support will these files be accessable 
now?


http://iamvirtual.ca/VAX11/VAX-11-software.html

It seems like at some point I used simh to successfully get into one of those 
.TAP files. I didn't know enough about it to know what I was doing but would 
have been able to get it? These seem to be relatively new additions by the DEC 
users.

Bill

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Re: [Simh] Been off the job too long

[Bill Cunningham]

Oh my God there's no hope for me. :-)

  - Original Message - 
  From: Bob Supnik 
  To: simh@trailing-edge.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2016 2:58 PM
  Subject: [Simh] Been off the job too long


  How can I get the macro11 cross-assembler to output absolute binary 
  format? Or is there a post-processing program that I've forgotten about?

  Thanks,

  /Bob Supnik

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Re: [Simh] text from openvms

[Bill Cunningham]

The only thing I know I can do is to use 'type filename' and log that to a file 
attached to simh. That would take a very long time though. People tell me 
kermit in vms can be a pain. 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Sergey Oboguev 
  To: Mark Pizzolato ; Bill Cunningham ; Bill Deegan ; simh@trailing-edge.com 
  Sent: Friday, March 25, 2016 6:53 PM
  Subject: Re: [Simh] text from openvms


  One approach would be to simply use telnet client that can dump a session to 
a file or copy it to the clipboard, and then inside VMS do something like "COPY 
Q.TXT TXB1:"




--
  From: Mark Pizzolato <m...@infocomm.com>
  To: Bill Cunningham <bill...@suddenlink.net>; Bill Deegan 
<b...@baddogconsulting.com>; "simh@trailing-edge.com" <simh@trailing-edge.com> 
  Sent: Friday, March 25, 2016 11:50 AM
  Subject: Re: [Simh] text from openvms



  If you want to go down the Kermit path you’ll need Kermit for the VMS side 
and you’ll need to find a way to get it into your simulated environment.  

  From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Bill 
Cunningham
  Sent: Friday, March 25, 2016 12:46 PM
  To: Bill Deegan <b...@baddogconsulting.com>; simh@trailing-edge.com
  Subject: Re: [Simh] text from openvms

  I don't want to get involved with FTP. That's setting up tcpip in VMS and 
lately I've been having terrible problems with that. I have set that aside. For 
now anyway. IDK about the old VMSs but openvms is new to me and I don't want to 
go too far too much. Thank's for the idea. My linux does have kermit. Is there 
a way to do this without involving tcp/ip protocols? 
- Original Message - 
From: Bill Deegan 
To: Zachary Kline 
Cc: Bill Cunningham ; SIMH List 
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2016 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Simh] text from openvms

How about FTP?

On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 11:27 AM, Zachary Kline <zkl...@speedpost.net> 
wrote:
  Hi Bill, 

  Kermit is definitely robust enough to do what you want. You could always 
do the “type the file to your terminal and copy paste,” dance too. That would 
work for text files particularly. ON OS X at least there’s a way to save 
terminal output to a text file as well.
  I don’t know about CDs. I’d think that might be a bit of overkill for 
what you want, Kermit’s pretty easy to set up.
  Best,
  Zack.
On Mar 25, 2016, at 12:23 PM, Bill Cunningham <bill...@suddenlink.net> 
wrote:

I have been studying the best way to copy from a vax simulator with 
openvms to a linux host, text files. The Docs look like telnet and kermit are 
the way to do it. So is there not a device like ISO that I can copy TOO? I 
wouldn't think because cdrom is RO after all. and 'set rq writeenable' isn't 
working nor is anything to do with cdrom working. 

There may be several ways to do this. I am not concerned so much 
about binary files as several .txt files. Am I on the right track with telnet 
and kermit from those who have attempted and done this?

Bill

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Re: [Simh] text from openvms

[Bill Cunningham]

I used,

at lpt t.txt

And all worked fine there. But print file.txt on VMS is not so simple. But 
that's another story.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Bob Supnik 
  To: simh@trailing-edge.com 
  Sent: Friday, March 25, 2016 2:59 PM
  Subject: Re: [Simh] text from openvms


  1. Attach a  (new) host file to the simulated printer on VMS.
  2. Print your VMS text file to file to the simulated printer.
  3. Let some time elapse, to make sure the print spooler finishes.
  4. Detach file from the simulated printer.
  5. VMS text file is now on your host in the host file you specified in 
  step 1.

  The LP11 printer is very dumb. It requires carriage returns and 
  linefeeds for proper sequencing, so you end up with a correctly 
  formatted Windows text file. Linux should be able to eat that directly; 
  if it needs the carriage returns removed, there are utilities to do that 
  (see ASC in the simtools package).

  /Bob

  On 3/25/2016 2:51 PM, simh-requ...@trailing-edge.com wrote:
  > Message: 1
  > Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 14:23:35 -0500
  > From: "Bill Cunningham"<bill...@suddenlink.net>
  > To:<simh@trailing-edge.com>
  > Subject: [Simh] text from openvms
  > Message-ID: <2F1F92FAE2FF4B2FB298AD1D3C4C36C3@apxtz6bip7fvgk>
  > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
  >
  >  I have been studying the best way to copy from a vax simulator with 
openvms to a linux host, text files. The Docs look like telnet and kermit are 
the way to do it. So is there not a device like ISO that I can copy TOO? I 
wouldn't think because cdrom is RO after all. and 'set rq writeenable' isn't 
working nor is anything to do with cdrom working.
  >
  >  There may be several ways to do this. I am not concerned so much about 
binary files as several .txt files. Am I on the right track with telnet and 
kermit from those who have attempted and done this?
  >
  > Bill

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Re: [Simh] text from openvms

[Bill Cunningham]

OK. I will look into it. And see what I can do.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Mark Pizzolato 
  To: Bill Cunningham ; Bill Deegan ; simh@trailing-edge.com 
  Sent: Friday, March 25, 2016 1:50 PM
  Subject: RE: [Simh] text from openvms


  If you want to go down the Kermit path you’ll need Kermit for the VMS side 
and you’ll need to find a way to get it into your simulated environment.  

   

  From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Bill 
Cunningham
  Sent: Friday, March 25, 2016 12:46 PM
  To: Bill Deegan <b...@baddogconsulting.com>; simh@trailing-edge.com
  Subject: Re: [Simh] text from openvms

   

  I don't want to get involved with FTP. That's setting up tcpip in VMS and 
lately I've been having terrible problems with that. I have set that aside. For 
now anyway. IDK about the old VMSs but openvms is new to me and I don't want to 
go too far too much. Thank's for the idea. My linux does have kermit. Is there 
a way to do this without involving tcp/ip protocols? 

- Original Message - 

From: Bill Deegan 

To: Zachary Kline 

    Cc: Bill Cunningham ; SIMH List 

Sent: Friday, March 25, 2016 1:38 PM

Subject: Re: [Simh] text from openvms

 

How about FTP?

 

On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 11:27 AM, Zachary Kline <zkl...@speedpost.net> 
wrote:

  Hi Bill, 

   

  Kermit is definitely robust enough to do what you want. You could always 
do the “type the file to your terminal and copy paste,” dance too. That would 
work for text files particularly. ON OS X at least there’s a way to save 
terminal output to a text file as well.

  I don’t know about CDs. I’d think that might be a bit of overkill for 
what you want, Kermit’s pretty easy to set up.

  Best,

  Zack.

On Mar 25, 2016, at 12:23 PM, Bill Cunningham <bill...@suddenlink.net> 
wrote:

 

I have been studying the best way to copy from a vax simulator with 
openvms to a linux host, text files. The Docs look like telnet and kermit are 
the way to do it. So is there not a device like ISO that I can copy TOO? I 
wouldn't think because cdrom is RO after all. and 'set rq writeenable' isn't 
working nor is anything to do with cdrom working. 

 

There may be several ways to do this. I am not concerned so much 
about binary files as several .txt files. Am I on the right track with telnet 
and kermit from those who have attempted and done this?

 

Bill

 

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Re: [Simh] text from openvms

[Bill Cunningham]

I don't want to get involved with FTP. That's setting up tcpip in VMS and 
lately I've been having terrible problems with that. I have set that aside. For 
now anyway. IDK about the old VMSs but openvms is new to me and I don't want to 
go too far too much. Thank's for the idea. My linux does have kermit. Is there 
a way to do this without involving tcp/ip protocols? 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Bill Deegan 
  To: Zachary Kline 
  Cc: Bill Cunningham ; SIMH List 
  Sent: Friday, March 25, 2016 1:38 PM
  Subject: Re: [Simh] text from openvms


  How about FTP?



  On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 11:27 AM, Zachary Kline <zkl...@speedpost.net> wrote:

Hi Bill,


Kermit is definitely robust enough to do what you want. You could always do 
the “type the file to your terminal and copy paste,” dance too. That would work 
for text files particularly. ON OS X at least there’s a way to save terminal 
output to a text file as well.
I don’t know about CDs. I’d think that might be a bit of overkill for what 
you want, Kermit’s pretty easy to set up.
Best,
Zack.

  On Mar 25, 2016, at 12:23 PM, Bill Cunningham <bill...@suddenlink.net> 
wrote:


  I have been studying the best way to copy from a vax simulator with 
openvms to a linux host, text files. The Docs look like telnet and kermit are 
the way to do it. So is there not a device like ISO that I can copy TOO? I 
wouldn't think because cdrom is RO after all. and 'set rq writeenable' isn't 
working nor is anything to do with cdrom working. 

  There may be several ways to do this. I am not concerned so much 
about binary files as several .txt files. Am I on the right track with telnet 
and kermit from those who have attempted and done this?

  Bill

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[Simh] text from openvms

[Bill Cunningham]

I have been studying the best way to copy from a vax simulator with openvms 
to a linux host, text files. The Docs look like telnet and kermit are the way 
to do it. So is there not a device like ISO that I can copy TOO? I wouldn't 
think because cdrom is RO after all. and 'set rq writeenable' isn't working nor 
is anything to do with cdrom working. 

There may be several ways to do this. I am not concerned so much about 
binary files as several .txt files. Am I on the right track with telnet and 
kermit from those who have attempted and done this?

Bill
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Re: [Simh] TU-56

[Bill Cunningham]

Ok at this page then,

http://iamvirtual.ca/VAX11/VAX-11-software.html

Whatever that putr is it's for DOS. OK I guess it is TU-58 then. Too many 
numbers today. THis looks mostly like VMS but maybe some other things too.

Bill

  - Original Message - 
  From: Mark Pizzolato 
  To: Christian Gauger-Cosgrove ; Bill Cunningham 
  Cc: SIMH 
  Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2016 4:55 PM
  Subject: RE: [Simh] TU-56


  On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 2:40 PM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:
  > On 24 March 2016 at 18:13, Bill Cunningham <bill...@suddenlink.net> wrote:
  > > My apologies for posting carlessly and not entering a subject. I
  > > do now indeed have the latest simhvmaster mar 2006. OK. I see vax780
  > > supports TU-50. Will that also support TU-56. Sorry for my ignorance.
  > > Maybe I am overlooking TU-56 support somewhere.
  > >
  > Neither the "vax780" (VAX-11/780) or "vax8600" (VAX-11/790... sorry, I mean
  > VAX 8600) simulators support the TU56 DECtape, but they do support TU58
  > DECtape II.

  This is not merely a problem with lack of simulation.  The goal of the simh 
  simulators is to simulate what was really supported on the original hardware 
  that is being simulated.  DEC didn't support TU56 DECtape on any VAX system, 
  hence the device isn't included in the VAX simulators...

  - Mark
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[Simh] TU-56

[Bill Cunningham]

My apologies for posting carlessly and not entering a subject. I do now 
indeed have the latest simhvmaster mar 2006. OK. I see vax780 supports TU-50. 
Will that also support TU-56. Sorry for my ignorance. Maybe I am overlooking 
TU-56 support somewhere.

Bill
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[Simh] TU-58 tape

[Bill Cunningham]

I can't seem to be able to find anywhere, and I looked at some of my own 
previous posts as well as others on this list; about tu-58 tapes.

Now there are some VMS versions 3 and 4 and such that have a .TAP 
extension. They are copies of actual cartridges. For vax or possibly pdp11. How 
do you set the vax for those tapes? I have looked at simh docs and tried at tu 
(or tk) tk0 and it seems to work but set doesn't work. Here's a link to that 
page.

http://iamvirtual.ca/VAX11/VAX-11-software.html

Does simh emulate this tape? I'm sure most are familiar with this page.

Bill
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Re: [Simh] simh and dos

[Bill Cunningham]

Simh will probably never emulate a more modern system. At least not the main 
distro. That's not simh's purpose to my knowledge. MSDOS just isn't old enough 
:)

  - Original Message - 
  From: Bill Cunningham 
  To: Davis Johnson ; simh@trailing-edge.com 
  Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2016 3:47 PM
  Subject: Re: [Simh] simh and dos


  Yeah I've heard of RDOS and X DOS. I have virtual PC 2007 and 
dosbox does work. I still like SIMh the best. 

  B

- Original Message - 
From: Davis Johnson 
To: Bill Cunningham 
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2016 3:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Simh] simh and dos


None of the SIMH emulators emulate a machine MS/DOS would run on. There are 
other operating systems called DOS (disk operating system) that have nothing to 
do with MS/DOS. Many of the SIMH emulators will run one of these DOS operating 
systems.

DOS may run on a VM using vmware, under emulation by, BOCHS, dosbox, boxer 
etc.


On 03/19/2016 04:28 PM, Bill Cunningham wrote:

  The thing is I don't know the emulators well enough to know which one(s) 
do or don't do that. I've only used say three of them and never Altair. Vax, 
PDP-11 and PDP-8.

  Bill
- Original Message - 
From: Davis Johnson 
To: simh@trailing-edge.com 
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2016 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Simh] simh and dos


Emulating a 5-slot PC or 8-slot PC/XT so that you can run actual MS/DOS 
would be closer to the SIMH way.


On 03/19/2016 03:04 PM, Bill Cunningham wrote:

  I personally think simh is one of the highest quality simulator 
systems you can get. Do any of the emulators like altair or so emulate MS DOS 
of any version? Or can they? If not might it in the future?

  Bill


   

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Re: [Simh] simh and dos

[Bill Cunningham]

Yeah I've heard of RDOS and X DOS. I have virtual PC 2007 and dosbox 
does work. I still like SIMh the best. 

B

  - Original Message - 
  From: Davis Johnson 
  To: Bill Cunningham 
  Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2016 3:43 PM
  Subject: Re: [Simh] simh and dos


  None of the SIMH emulators emulate a machine MS/DOS would run on. There are 
other operating systems called DOS (disk operating system) that have nothing to 
do with MS/DOS. Many of the SIMH emulators will run one of these DOS operating 
systems.

  DOS may run on a VM using vmware, under emulation by, BOCHS, dosbox, boxer 
etc.


  On 03/19/2016 04:28 PM, Bill Cunningham wrote:

The thing is I don't know the emulators well enough to know which one(s) do 
or don't do that. I've only used say three of them and never Altair. Vax, 
PDP-11 and PDP-8.

Bill
  - Original Message - 
  From: Davis Johnson 
  To: simh@trailing-edge.com 
  Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2016 2:24 PM
  Subject: Re: [Simh] simh and dos


  Emulating a 5-slot PC or 8-slot PC/XT so that you can run actual MS/DOS 
would be closer to the SIMH way.


  On 03/19/2016 03:04 PM, Bill Cunningham wrote:

I personally think simh is one of the highest quality simulator 
systems you can get. Do any of the emulators like altair or so emulate MS DOS 
of any version? Or can they? If not might it in the future?

Bill


 

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[Simh] Networking support

[Bill Cunningham]

NCP is that network control program? "Network control protocol" and "link 
control protocol" I am finding is part of PPP. So RFC 801's reference to NCP; 
is that "network control program". I appreciate being corrected. Henry's BBN 
question is very interesting. 

Bill
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Re: [Simh] [SimH] Networking support

[Bill Cunningham]

probably not worth investing a lot of effort into writing 
the HW emulation unless we have the SW to drive it.   And frankly, you need to 
think how you will use it.  Modulo Johnny and the cool folks running HECnet (a 
large world wide network running DECnet over the Internet), you probably will 
want to have Internet functionality to be able to access the systems. 


The good news is that a number of folks developed implementations for 
almost most of the major OS implementations and many of the manufacturers 
eventually picked them up (DEC would eventually take the Tek/CMU IP 
implementation in house). 


The bad news is I fear except for a few cases where the manufacturer picked 
it up and made a product, some of those stacks (like the HP-1000 and HP-3000 
stacks from BBN) have been lost.   If someone has those it would be cool, but I 
have not seen those bits since the early 1980s.


Clem









On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 2:36 PM, Bill Cunningham <bill...@suddenlink.net> 
wrote:

  What I meant was that I remember on early PCs using an rs232-c line for 
using the old BBSes and compuserve before it was an ISP. 10 cents a minute. I 
had several modems 300, 1200 and 2400 baud modems. 

  These even older machines may have had hookups within a company. Even 
one building connecting 5 or so machines. Serial would've worked fine. And was 
what was used. I was thinking with maybe 4-5 PDP8s a company would use some 
kind of networking. Perhaps not back then. I was only aware of pdp11 and vax 
being "network possible". I guess I was wrong.

  Bill

- Original Message - 
From: Clem Cole 
To: Anders Magnusson 
Cc: SIMH ; Bob Supnik 
Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2016 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Simh] [SimH] Networking support




On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 12:25 PM, Anders Magnusson <ra...@ludd.ltu.se> 
wrote:

  DG-UX or MV/UX? 

​Which was the rewrite of System V ?? i.e. System V cmd system, but 
internally developed System V SMP kernel -- I want to say DG-UX maybe; but I'd 
been a long time and many beers ago - I've forgotten the name.   I remember it 
was a very clean UNIX implementation.   Nice locking structure, easy to debug, 
etc...


Locus was working on different projects with Ultrix, Tru64, VMS, AIX, 
SunOS, Solaris, HP-UX, Apollo, DG's UX, some work for Pr1me, ISC's 386/ix, 
Intel's 386 port, SVR4 for the AT/UI guys, and Intel's Paragon at the same 
time.  At one point, I had the OS release schedules for HP, DEC and Sun all 
pasted on the wall behind my desk.  I used to say LCC got to see everyone's 
dirty laundry in those days.  As I said, I do remember the DG Unix 
re-implementation was very easy to work on (I will not say which one we cursed 
the most).





  The DG ethernet card has a 82586 on board. 
​As I said, many beers ago. I'm undoubtedly mixed up a couple of the 
systems, since we had so many we worked with in those days.  I remember the AMD 
chip was a lot easier to program than the Intel device. That said, I suspect 
that I have the docs on the Intel chips somewhere, but it sounds like others 
have the DG docs which are going to be better for simh purposes.


​Clem​








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Re: [Simh] [SimH] Networking support

[Bill Cunningham]

  - Original Message - 
  From: Clem Cole 
  To: Bill Cunningham 
  Cc: SIMH 
  Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2016 3:31 PM
  Subject: Re: [Simh] [SimH] Networking support


  Bill,


  You probably need to date things a little and get a some perspective of where 
a few of us are coming.   Just to set a few lines in the sand.  While 3Mb/s 
"xerox" ethernet has been around for about 5 years, the DEC/Intel/Xerox 
Ethernet 10Mb/s spec was published Sep 30, 1980.   Per RFC 801, Arpanet was not 
officially schedule to switch from the old NCP to IP until Jan 1, 1983 
(although a number of folks like me had been working with what would become 
IP/TCP for 3-4 years before that).  

  Oh Wow. I have always been told Jan 1st 1981 and they went from "Link 
Control Protocol" to TCP/IP. Must've been wrong then somebody was.

  [...]
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Re: [Simh] Disk info request

[Bill Cunningham]

  - Original Message - 
  From: Paul Koning 
  To: Johnny Billquist 
  Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2016 11:12 AM
  Subject: Re: [Simh] Disk info request


  I long ago forgot the details, but a look at the MSCP Basic Functions manual 
(on Bitsavers in the uda50 directory) is helpful.  See page 4-25 and the next 
couple.  

  Ok well sorry to interrupt, but where is a "UDA50" directory on bitsavers. I 
am not finding it.

  Bill
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[Simh] how do settings help simh

[Bill Cunningham]

When I load a file with simh if I'm using the vax simulator for example. I 
use these settings:

set nvr filename
set cpu 64m
set cpu idle=vms

specifically the third for vms. Now it seems these are not really needed to me. 
How does it help the simulator or the simulation? Is it easier for it to use or 
view files? I really myself don't notice much.



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Re: [Simh] programming in binary

[Bill Cunningham]

https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/events/EDSAC99/simulators/

This is kind of interesting.

  - Original Message - 
  From: dave porter 
  To: simh@trailing-edge.com 
  Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 3:07 PM
  Subject: Re: [Simh] programming in binary


  As I understand it. the EDSAC (the first or second, depending on how you 
  counted, stored-program machine in production service) had an 
  assembler/bootstrap (modern terminology, or course) program wired into a 
  bank of uniselectors as the 'initial orders'.  This allowed for 
  single-character instruction mnemonics and decimal storage addresses. 'A' 
  for 'add' seems clear enough to me, but 'V' for multiply-and-add is less so. 
  So, we apparently had assemblers from more-or-less the very beginning.

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Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix

[Bill Cunningham]

1967 was the first hand held.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Johnny Billquist 
  To: Bill Cunningham ; simh@trailing-edge.com 
  Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2016 8:05 PM
  Subject: Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix


  Well, 1976 is a far cry from the 1950s...

Johnny


  Bill Cunningham <bill...@suddenlink.net> skrev: (27 februari 2016 23:59:06 
CET)
  >Calculators I'm thinking of are "HandHeld" and the IC by Jack Kilby.
  >
  >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Kilby
  >
  >1976. The "year the slide rule died" They say.
  >  - Original Message - 
  >  From: Johnny Billquist 
  >  To: simh@trailing-edge.com 
  >  Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2016 5:05 PM
  >  Subject: Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix
  >
  >
  >  On 2016-02-27 20:46, Paul Koning wrote:
  >  >
  >>> On Feb 27, 2016, at 2:36 PM, Bill Cunningham
  ><bill...@suddenlink.net> wrote:
  >  >>
  >>> Well that's certainly before ICs I think that was in the 1950s and
  >it was some early calculators that killed slide rules. What kind of
  >"processor" were they using? I'm not so sure there was real HLL before
  >Adm. Hopper. And no binary by Babbge. Do you have any links or anything
  >from the '40s?
  >  >
  >> HLL?  I was talking about assembler...  Anyway, I don't believe COBOL
  >was the first HLL, though it certainly was fairly early.
  >
  >  The first HLL ought to have been FORTRAN. Lisp might have been the 
  >  second, but I'm not entirely sure.
  >
  > I'm not sure what kind of calculators Bill are thinking of. But until 
  >the early 70s, calculators were usually mechanical, or
  >electromechanical 
  >  things with cogwheels, and definitely worked in decimal.
  >  No processors in there...
  >
  >  Johnny
  >
  >  -- 
  >  Johnny Billquist  || "I'm on a bus
  > ||  on a psychedelic trip
  >  email: b...@softjar.se ||  Reading murder books
  >  pdp is alive! ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
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  >
  >
  >
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Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix

[Bill Cunningham]

Calculators I'm thinking of are "HandHeld" and the IC by Jack Kilby.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Kilby

1976. The "year the slide rule died" They say.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Johnny Billquist 
  To: simh@trailing-edge.com 
  Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2016 5:05 PM
  Subject: Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix


  On 2016-02-27 20:46, Paul Koning wrote:
  >
  >> On Feb 27, 2016, at 2:36 PM, Bill Cunningham <bill...@suddenlink.net> 
wrote:
  >>
  >> Well that's certainly before ICs I think that was in the 1950s and it was 
some early calculators that killed slide rules. What kind of "processor" were 
they using? I'm not so sure there was real HLL before Adm. Hopper. And no 
binary by Babbge. Do you have any links or anything from the '40s?
  >
  > HLL?  I was talking about assembler...  Anyway, I don't believe COBOL was 
the first HLL, though it certainly was fairly early.

  The first HLL ought to have been FORTRAN. Lisp might have been the 
  second, but I'm not entirely sure.

  I'm not sure what kind of calculators Bill are thinking of. But until 
  the early 70s, calculators were usually mechanical, or electromechanical 
  things with cogwheels, and definitely worked in decimal.
  No processors in there...

  Johnny

  -- 
  Johnny Billquist  || "I'm on a bus
 ||  on a psychedelic trip
  email: b...@softjar.se ||  Reading murder books
  pdp is alive! ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
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Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix

[Bill Cunningham]

Thanks much. Yes I know you were speaking of assembly. I was just considering 
history. I've always heard binary was first. What that might mean IDK. And 
there was no evidence presented for that.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Paul Koning 
  To: SIMH 
  Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2016 2:46 PM
  Subject: Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix



  > On Feb 27, 2016, at 2:36 PM, Bill Cunningham <bill...@suddenlink.net> wrote:
  > 
  > Well that's certainly before ICs I think that was in the 1950s and it was 
some early calculators that killed slide rules. What kind of "processor" were 
they using? I'm not so sure there was real HLL before Adm. Hopper. And no 
binary by Babbge. Do you have any links or anything from the '40s?

  HLL?  I was talking about assembler...  Anyway, I don't believe COBOL was the 
first HLL, though it certainly was fairly early.

  You can find writeups about Harvard Mark 4 in Bitsavers, and presumably other 
old stuff as well.  My own comment was referring to documents about early Dutch 
computer work I've been looking at.  For example this one: 
http://oai.cwi.nl/oai/asset/9603/9603A.pdf, "Principles of electronic 
computers: course February 1948".  It mentions that, at time of writing, the 
only functioning electronic computer was ENIAC.  (That may not be entirely 
accurate, considering possible classified machines, but it's certainly close.)  
It describes the key components of a computer, and gives an outline of what an 
instruction set might look like.  No suggestion that the instruction set in 
question corresponds to any actual design, though.

  Unfortunately it's in Dutch.

  paul


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Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix

[Bill Cunningham]

  - Original Message - 
  From: Bill Cunningham 
  To: Paul Koning ; s...@trailing-edge.com 
  Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2016 2:36 PM
  Subject: Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix


  Well that's certainly before ICs I think that was in the 1950s and it was 
some early calculators that killed slide rules. What kind of "processor" were 
they using? I'm not so sure there was real HLL before Adm. Hopper. And no 
binary by Babbge. Do you have any links or anything from the '40s?

  Bill

- Original Message - 
From: Paul Koning 
    To: Bill Cunningham 
Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com 
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2016 2:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix



> On Feb 27, 2016, at 2:06 PM, Bill Cunningham <bill...@suddenlink.net> 
wrote:
> 
> Or program in binary. Like originally.

I'm not so sure about that.  I have documents from as early as 1948 showing 
programming in machine language, though each of these use decimal numbers for 
the opcodes and addresses.  While of course many machines were binary 
internally, I've never seen anyone actually code programs in binary.

paul

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Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix

[Bill Cunningham]

Or program in binary. Like originally.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Paul Koning 
  To: Clem Cole 
  Cc: SIMH 
  Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2016 2:01 PM
  Subject: Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix



  > On Feb 26, 2016, at 7:13 PM, Clem Cole  wrote:
  > 
  > 
  > On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 6:28 PM, Nigel Williams 
 wrote:
  > Perhaps not unusual for the 1960s but laborious none-the-less.
  > 
  > ​Depends who you are.   For grins look for the original Cray-1 "assembler" 
box.   You'll discover there are no mnemonics like "add", "branch" - just octal 
codes.   Seymor didn't need them. ​

  Obviously, to get an assembler you'd first have to bootstrap *that*, unless 
you could write a cross-assembler.  And early assemblers weren't necessarily 
all that fancy.  

  I've been reading some 1950s era computer descriptions, for machines without 
assemblers.  Opcodes are simply written as op/addr so you'd remember, say, that 
0 is add and 6 is store, and so forth.  A machine introduced in Holland in 1958 
-- the EL-X1 -- had a very bare-bones assembler, or slightly smart loader, 
depending on how you'd want to think about it.  Just a few hundred 
instructions; it had opcodes like "0A" (add to A) or "6S" (store S register).  
And it had symbolic addresses, but you couldn't label individual locations, 
only "paragraphs" because symbols were only pairs of one of 13 letters, i.e., a 
max of 169 symbols per program.  Still, with that primitive tool some large 
software was written, such as the world's first ALGOL compiler.

  It isn't really all that much harder than a modern assembler once you get 
used to the different look.

  paul

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Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix

[Bill Cunningham]

I didn't know that B had been around so much. I then was /not/ designed for 
working with UNIX specifically?
  - Original Message - 
  From: Clem Cole 
  To: Eric Smith 
  Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com 
  Sent: Friday, February 26, 2016 7:24 PM
  Subject: Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix




  On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 6:43 PM, Eric Smith  wrote:

It would be interesting to know how they went from B to C .. but once
they had a higher level language (C .. well, higher level compared to
the assembler), things would become much easier.


  ​Dennis described it all in one of his papers.   NB was written in B.  C 
morphed into being so as he said, there was never really a "C" compiler from 
scratch.   At one point, they realized the language had diverged enough to call 
it something else.


  Also, as Doug has pointed out either here or on the TUHS list, there was an 
early parser in TMG - which I believe spit out B at that point.   Yacc and Lex 
do not appear until later in the cycle. 


  The point is that the kernel and the tools "matured" as time went on.   At 
some point Dennis would collect up tools that people had and pick up the 
current state of the kernel and "release" was come out. So it was a ephemeral 
thing, not a big formal process we think of today with release candidates et 
al.The bad news for us trying to pick through the history, is that it means 
in some cases we really do not have an established date of references point.   
Warren has done yeoman's work to try to help establish such a timeline and 
probably has the most definitive track of what was what - but in some cases it 
was hazy and frankly the intermediate codes have been lost.


  Clem




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Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix

[Bill Cunningham]

  - Original Message - 
  From: Johnny Billquist 
  To: simh@trailing-edge.com 
  Sent: Friday, February 26, 2016 8:48 AM
  Subject: Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix


  On 2016-02-26 01:50, Bill Cunningham wrote:
  >  When Ken Thompson coded UNIX it was in assembly. The first versions
  > anyway before B/NB/C. Is there in existance pdp11 (45 or 70 ?) intterupt
  > (vector) lists or IRQs and so, registers that shows how to code in
  > assembly on a pdp11? I am sure simh does it. Isn't what the "dep"
  > command is for?

  I'm not sure what you ask for. The first version of Unix was for a 
  PDP-7, so any PDP-11 information is irrelevant.
  UNix was then ported to the PDP-11, and was still written in assembler. 
  It was then rewritten in C, however, there are still parts that are 
  written in assembler. Not everything can be done in C...

  I was not aware they started on a PDP7. What about inline assembly. That's 
kinda C, isn't it?

  Bill
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[Simh] License File

[Bill Cunningham]

  - Original Message - 
  From: Robert Thomas
  To: simh@trailing-edge.com
  Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 5:40 PM
  Subject: Re: [Simh] License File


  Rather than fight file transfers prior to installing licenses, use the 
following command:

  $ @SYS$UPDATE:VMSLICENSE

  The command procedure will guide one through the license data entry in the 
order and format as on the hardcopy license.

  The format for a command file is as below.  The various options will 
differ based on the type of license.

  $ LICENSE REGISTER xx -
  /ISSUER=yyy -
  /AUTHORIZATION=zz -
  /PRODUCER= -
  /UNITS= -
  /OPTIONS=(cc) -
  /CHECKSUM=ddd
  $ LICENSE LOADxxx/LOG/PRODUCER=aa
  $!
  $ exit
  $!
  $! [End of File]

  The thing is I always get down to the checksum and enter it correctly and 
get an error that something isn't typed right. With every PAK I've tried so 
far. My hobbyist ID number is always the same, bu the checksum is always 
different.

  [...]
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[Simh] license error

[Bill Cunningham]

I successfully copied the license to vms as lic.com. Then a typed 
@lic.com. This is a logged result by simh. cut a bit.


 $ @lic.com

%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first 

Re: [Simh] loading file

[Bill Cunningham]

  - Original Message - 
  From: Timothe Litt 
  To: simh@trailing-edge.com 
  Sent: Monday, February 15, 2016 5:13 PM
  Subject: Re: [Simh] loading file


  Glad you've made progress.

  There is no 'y' in my name.

  So post the full recipe that worked for you so that future folks can find it.

  Type  to the fields that your license doesn't contain.

  I post to the list as text-only.  OE may insist on HTML.  Haven't used it in 
years.  Gave up on Outlook too.
  Thunderbird is a better client.  And the price is right.

  In any case, it's better to post to the list so that everyone benefits.


  Yeah OE sucks sometimes but I'm not buying a windows OS. Thunderbird seemed 
complicated. i am probably just not used to it. I love firefox though.

  I followed your suggestions
  alloc cra0:
  set card_reader cra0:/029
  copy cra0: lic.txt

  I am have a nice text file. Now to get it into the license registry. I guess 
the whole thing will have to go in for full access. VMS telnet and ftp may not 
work through a network connection with phase iv and my linux ethernet through 
simh. Because of license problems.

  I followed Wilm's advice with the simh setup. C worked but continue didn't.

  Is there a way you can recommend to load the PAKs into the license database?

  Bill

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[Simh] loading file

[Bill Cunningham]

To: Timothy Litt

My OE isn't printing your emails for some reason, so I am having to read your  
posts of the list's archive. Dunno what's up.

Thanks to all who have helped me. I have now in vms a file I saved as "lic.txt"

I type "type lic.txt" and it prints out in in entirety. Now if I could direct 
that output to the license database.

@sys$update:vmslicense.com asks all kinds of questions. Some of which are not 
included in my license. A bit confusing.

Thanks again!

Bill

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Re: [Simh] vax simh and loading file

[Bill Cunningham]

  - Original Message - 
  From: Wilm Boerhout 
  To: simh@trailing-edge.com 
  Sent: Monday, February 15, 2016 3:42 AM
  Subject: Re: [Simh] vax simh and loading file


  Exactly. The only thing that simh adds to this process is the "set cr 
  reset" command to prompt the card reader (driver?).

  So on simh, the flow control would be:

   1. get your "card deck" in a file on the host
   2. boot simh with the cr device attached to said file
   3. boot your VAX
   4. log in, then CTRL/E out to the simh prompt, and issue "set cr reset"
   5. issue "continue" to the simh prompt to resume the VAX
   6. observe that your job has run, and the file (if not deleted, which
  is the default) is now a DCL file in your default login directory,
  default name is "INPBATCH.COM". Name may be overridden by the /NAME
  qualifier on the job card.

  /Wilm


  OK here's what I tried. Issuing "continue" in simg doesn't work. simh> 
"continue" just gives an error.

  ./vax
  lo -r ka655x.bin
  set cpu 64m
  set cpu idle=vms
  set rq0 ra92
  at rq0 vms
  at nvr r
  set cr autoeof
  at -a cr list "name of licnese PAKs
  set cr translation=029
  b cpu
  Then I use "b dua0" no problems
  login as system and enter password. No problems
  ^E
  simh> 
  here I enter "set cr reset"
  and at simh>
  I enter "continue" and get an error. 

  Bill
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Re: [Simh] vax simh and loading file

[Bill Cunningham]

   Wilm,

 Your suggestion on the simh list looks just like what I need. I use simh 3.9 
and the vax has a cr device. I attached a file and everything is good. When I 
login to vms nothing understands job.

I've tried job
@sys$system:job and so on and can't get job or find it anywhere. The help list 
doesn't list a noprint qualifier but there is /keep and /name. Where is "job" 
that's what I can't seem to find out. This is from the list.
"
$JOB SYSTEM /NOPRINT /KEEP /NAME=WilmTest
$PASSWORD xxx
$! some ASCII text
$ show time
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[Simh] vax simh and loading file

[Bill Cunningham]

OK I have changed my linux by installing these programs. ckermit, gkermit 
and I installed the dnprogs which seems to work for me. It compiled with 
warnings but the compile didn't break. So I can use decnet on my linux now 
after some tinkering I'm sure.

So what would be the easist way to get the PAK I have called dvnetend, or 
something like that into simh and vms. I appreciate the help. I'm getting 
closer.

Bill
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Re: [Simh] vax simh and loading file

[Bill Cunningham]

  - Original Message - 
  From: Johnny Billquist 
  To: Bill Cunningham 
  Sent: Friday, February 12, 2016 4:42 PM
  Subject: Re: [Simh] vax simh and loading file


  On 2016-02-12 22:40, Bill Cunningham wrote:
  > Hum. I am running in console mode. Cut and paste from one terminal
  > window to another? I will have to load some things. That's ok, but I was
  > wondering if simh was able to do this.

  I was just giving a suggestion. :-)
  I'm not aware of any really simple way of transporting bytes across the 
  barrier. I can think of various more or less tricky ways, but no really 
  simple ones.

  Sure I understand. I had in mind simh could do this though. 

  Bill
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Re: [Simh] vax simh and loading file

[Bill Cunningham]

Didn't work for me. Not at all. Just don't know what I'm doing probably with 
Xservers. Well I see openvms does indeed have ftp. Yeah I think your idea could 
work. But is a file I have called "dec.com" I could use @dec.com in vms to run 
attachable somehow to simh. I believe it is.

Bill

  - Original Message - 
  From: Bill Deegan 
  To: Bill Cunningham 
  Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com 
  Sent: Friday, February 12, 2016 6:17 PM
  Subject: Re: [Simh] vax simh and loading file


  For the PAKs I just copy/pasted to get things going. That worked fine.

  Bring it up in a text editor on host machine, select all. Then in your simh 
window you should be ok to paste.



  On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 3:11 PM, Bill Cunningham <bill...@suddenlink.net> 
wrote:

I see. Forgive me but I don't know if vms has ftp or not. I'm really 
starting out with it. I found some pages for setting up phase iv but need to 
get the PAKs into openvms via simh.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Bill Deegan 
  To: Bill Cunningham 
  Sent: Friday, February 12, 2016 6:06 PM
  Subject: Re: [Simh] vax simh and loading file


  Was thinking you could run ftp client inside vms and pull from a ftp 
server you push file to..



  On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 2:58 PM, Bill Cunningham <bill...@suddenlink.net> 
wrote:

I'm not sure. There's telnet that is in simh too. One might be able to 
do something there. I tried copy and paste with X servers and it was a horror 
story. Couldn't copy anything. How would you ftp it into vax then vms? Or 
telnet it there if possible.

Bill

  - Original Message - 
  From: Bill Deegan 
      To: Bill Cunningham 
  Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com 
  Sent: Friday, February 12, 2016 5:16 PM
  Subject: Re: [Simh] vax simh and loading file


  Can't ftp it into the vax?



  On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Bill Cunningham 
<bill...@suddenlink.net> wrote:


  - Original Message - 
  From: Johnny Billquist 
  To: Bill Cunningham 
  Sent: Friday, February 12, 2016 4:42 PM
  Subject: Re: [Simh] vax simh and loading file


      On 2016-02-12 22:40, Bill Cunningham wrote:
  > Hum. I am running in console mode. Cut and paste from one 
terminal
  > window to another? I will have to load some things. That's ok, 
but I was
  > wondering if simh was able to do this.

  I was just giving a suggestion. :-)
  I'm not aware of any really simple way of transporting bytes 
across the 
  barrier. I can think of various more or less tricky ways, but no 
really 
  simple ones.

  Sure I understand. I had in mind simh could do this though. 

  Bill


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[Simh] vax simh and loading file

[Bill Cunningham]

I thought there were directions for this but I can't find them now. I have 
a file I wish to put into openvms. I am using the vax simulator. It contains a 
bit of license information. Is there a way through simh that this file can be 
passed into a loaded openvms image? Maybe I was looking at an emulator other 
than vax. 

Bill
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[Simh] vax simh and loading file

[Bill Cunningham]

Old posts to this list from 2014 say somethings but the links are dead. I 
don't know if simh has changed since then or not. MAC address and xq0 device 
will need set up and a file can be attached in simh somehow.

Bill
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Re: [Simh] vax simh and loading file

[Bill Cunningham]

I see. Forgive me but I don't know if vms has ftp or not. I'm really starting 
out with it. I found some pages for setting up phase iv but need to get the 
PAKs into openvms via simh.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Bill Deegan 
  To: Bill Cunningham 
  Sent: Friday, February 12, 2016 6:06 PM
  Subject: Re: [Simh] vax simh and loading file


  Was thinking you could run ftp client inside vms and pull from a ftp server 
you push file to..



  On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 2:58 PM, Bill Cunningham <bill...@suddenlink.net> 
wrote:

I'm not sure. There's telnet that is in simh too. One might be able to do 
something there. I tried copy and paste with X servers and it was a horror 
story. Couldn't copy anything. How would you ftp it into vax then vms? Or 
telnet it there if possible.

Bill

  - Original Message - 
  From: Bill Deegan 
  To: Bill Cunningham 
  Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com 
  Sent: Friday, February 12, 2016 5:16 PM
  Subject: Re: [Simh] vax simh and loading file


  Can't ftp it into the vax?



  On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Bill Cunningham <bill...@suddenlink.net> 
wrote:


  - Original Message - 
  From: Johnny Billquist 
      To: Bill Cunningham 
  Sent: Friday, February 12, 2016 4:42 PM
  Subject: Re: [Simh] vax simh and loading file


  On 2016-02-12 22:40, Bill Cunningham wrote:
  > Hum. I am running in console mode. Cut and paste from one terminal
  > window to another? I will have to load some things. That's ok, but 
I was
  > wondering if simh was able to do this.

  I was just giving a suggestion. :-)
  I'm not aware of any really simple way of transporting bytes across 
the 
  barrier. I can think of various more or less tricky ways, but no 
really 
  simple ones.

  Sure I understand. I had in mind simh could do this though. 

  Bill


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[Simh] error

[Bill Cunningham]

After using shutdown on my virtual VMS, it dropped to the simh prompt and 
had this error.

Infinite loop, PC833DC8D3 (BRB ...) 
and the same hex number were the ... is. What does that mean?

Bill
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[Simh] rsx11m46.tpc and simh

[Bill Cunningham]

I have some instructions on how to use the pdp11 simulator for the 
mentioned in the subject line. 

set cpu 11/45
set cpu 256k
set cpu idle

SET RL enable
set RL0 RL02
set RL1 RL02

SET RP ENABLE
SET RP0 RP06
ATTACH RP0 RP06.000
SET RP1 RP06
;ATTACH RP1 RP06.001

SET TS ENABLE
SET TS0 FORMAT=TPC
SET TS0 LOCKED

SET DZ ENABLE
SET DZ LINES=8
ATTACH -am DZ 11023

I am not sure the enableds are needed here. And a part additional is,

at ts0 rsx11m46.tpc
boot ts0

I am getting error codes. Does anyone happen to know simh well enough to get 
simh pdp11 to boot this file?

Bill
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Re: [Simh] simh API

[Bill Cunningham]

I have problems with winvice. I'm not sure the trouble is. I do suppose you 
have a point there. I never thought about graphics but some cli. But I'm not 
sure how much of CBM was cli. I was interested in something to use CP/Ms. But I 
understand what you are trying to say and perhaps you are right. Thanks for the 
comment.

Message - 
  From: pigi 
  To: simh@trailing-edge.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 1:44 PM
  Subject: Re: [Simh] simh API


  Il 14/07/2015 19:25, Bill Cunningham ha scritto:
I am not quite sure if I have ask this, or something similar before. 
If so please forgive me. Is there a simh tutorial as an API ? There is 
simh_doc.doc but it is kind of limited in scope. If someone were interested in 
using the API as a simulator for a C128's 650x processor, how would they begin? 
If anyone has done anything like this.
  
I have brought up the CBM computers before. Is there an API tutorial?

  sir, I must point to you that, AFAIK the CBM machines's peculiarities 
  isn't easy to adapt to the general structure of SIMH, even with an 
  graphic API for SIMH (a WIP, as I understand), and, OTOH, there's 
  already a very fine and mature emulator/simulator for the CBM machines:


   http://vice-emu.sourceforge.net/

  Best regards from Italy,
  dott. Piergiorgio.

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[Simh] DEC stuff and simh

[Bill Cunningham]

Will the software on this page run on simh? Is TU-58 supported? IF not can 
something else be used?
This looks like some pretty good stuff.

Bill
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[Simh] Booting the vax750 simulator

[Bill Cunningham]

[...]



This kernel I built was only microvax II and VAX-11/750 so it won't directly 
boot on a 11/780 nor a VAX8600. But if I add a line CPU  VAX780 and CPU   
 VAX8600 it boots on both.

 

But still no-go on vax750. I even tried to remove some more optional features 
in the kernel config but no difference. Still boot on vax780, microvax2 and 
vax8600 simulator though.

 

Here is the image I tried : 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96935524/Datormusuem/VAX11-750/ultrix3.dsk

 [...]



I'm getting a dead link here.



Bill


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[Simh] simh-V3.8-1

[Bill Cunningham]

The only old copy of simh I was able to get was the 3.8-1 version and it 
involves DECnet. Does anyone know anything about a DECnet for simh or on the 
internet anywhere? Why is this simh called that? Is it a specialized version by 
another party other than the maintainer?

Bill
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[Simh] C64 and C128

[Bill Cunningham]

I think maybe the simh doc too might have confused me a bit. 3.1.3 talks 
about word length, not addressability and that kind of confused me. I was 
looking into the PDPs and then commodore machines that ran CP/M which I guess 
was C128. I never had one. C64s and TRS-80 CoCos but not C128. So I began 
wondering word size? Which to me was a processor's register size. Not various 
system bus sizes. Addressability made me think of the address bus size and that 
varied. 

Well I wondered about a simh VM for the C128 that would use CP/M 2 or 3.

Bill
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Re: [Simh] bits and bites

[Bill Cunningham]

Is that F-831F ? It's all I can find from May 65.


  - Original Message - 
  From: Jack Rubin 
  To: simh@trailing-edge.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 12:14 PM
  Subject: [Simh] bits and bites


  Just to add to the general hilarity, the PDP-8 Interface Manual (DEC 
publication F-83, May, 1965, page 6) states that The PDP-8 ... collects and 
distributes data in 12 bit bites. The manual is on bitsavers.

  Jack

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Re: [Simh] C64 and C128

[Bill Cunningham]

  - Original Message - 
  From: Johnny Billquist 
  To: simh@trailing-edge.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 10:07 PM
  Subject: Re: [Simh] C64 and C128


  On 2015-07-01 01:56, Bill Cunningham wrote:
   I remember those floppy drives where big and heavy. I never had cp/m or
   a c128. I am reading that an 8502 and Z80A (which I can't find anything
   on) was inside. The Z80A was about 4 MHz. The Z80A word size I do not
   know. It was of course an 8 bit with a 16 bit address bus I believe. Now
   which is memory word size?

  You are asking very weird questions.
  What do you mean by word size?

  Johnny


  I read in some specs either for 6502 or Z80A the term memory word size. 
These are all 8 bit cpus I know that but they have different sized address 
buses. Rich straightened me out. The term memory was throwing me off. I these 
cases Word Size would be 8 bit. Like todays 64 bit machines. Word size is now 
considered 64 on 64 bit processors. Although the 6502 had 8 bit registers 
except maybe for one, and a 16 bit address bus. They are 8 bit word sized.
  Under control now. Thanks though. 
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Re: [Simh] cdecl

[Bill Cunningham]

The copy I found wanted lex and yacc. Well evidently byacc was acceptable. Lex 
is from unix of course so I didn't have the dependancies to compile the C 
program. I am not sure if it would accept flex or not. 
  - Original Message - 
  From: R P Herrold 
  To: Bill Cunningham 
  Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:19 AM
  Subject: cdecl


  On Mon, 29 Jun 2015, Bill Cunningham wrote:

   I guess cdecl was removed from my distro of linux; 
   fedora because of copyright concerns. I have read the 
   project was long dead.

  There is less there than meets the eye, but it was formerly in 
  CentOS, and PUIAS

  the SRPM rebuilds trivially on C 6 -- I placed a copy, after 
  rebuild, out at:
  ftp://ftp.owlriver.com/pub/local/ORC/cdecl/

  -- Russ herrold


  -- 
  --
  end
  ==
   .-- -... ---.. ... -.- -.--
  Copyright (C) 2015 R P Herrold
herr...@owlriver.com
 My words are not deathless prose,
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[Simh] C64 and C128

[Bill Cunningham]

Did the C64 not run CP/M? I know the 128 did. It had a 8502 processor and 
Z80A processor I believe. One was for CP/M. What good is a commodore machine 
without CP/M ;)

Bill
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Re: [Simh] C64 and C128

[Bill Cunningham]

I remember those floppy drives where big and heavy. I never had cp/m or a c128. 
I am reading that an 8502 and Z80A (which I can't find anything on) was inside. 
The Z80A was about 4 MHz. The Z80A word size I do not know. It was of course an 
8 bit with a 16 bit address bus I believe. Now which is memory word size?

  - Original Message - 
  From: Kevin Handy 
  To: Bill Cunningham 
  Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 7:46 PM
  Subject: Re: [Simh] C64 and C128


  The C64 did not run cp/m out of the box, because it did not have any kind of 
Intel 8080 based processor. You could buy a cartridge (iirc) that would allow 
you to run cp/m, but it was basically bolting a cp/m machine onto the side of 
the C64. 


  The C128 had both the C64 processor, and a Z80 processor built in, and it 
could run cp/m. The floppy drive speed was really lousy though (300 baud serial 
bus iirc).



  On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 5:21 PM, Bill Cunningham bill...@suddenlink.net 
wrote:

Did the C64 not run CP/M? I know the 128 did. It had a 8502 processor 
and Z80A processor I believe. One was for CP/M. What good is a commodore 
machine without CP/M ;)

Bill


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[Simh] C64 word size

[Bill Cunningham]

Ok anyone know the C64 word size of memory? The 6510 was 8 bit and there 
was 16 bit addressability. I guess that would be a 16 bit address bus; if 
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[Simh] cdecl

[Bill Cunningham]

I guess cdecl was removed from my distro of linux; fedora because of 
copyright concerns. I have read the project was long dead.
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[Simh] IO ports 8 bit bidirectional like in C64

[Bill Cunningham]

I am looking at this page...

http://www.mikroe.com/chapters/view/4/chapter-3-i-o-ports/

Now would this be similar or what the C64 MOS processor would be like? The 
specs I got ahold of says 8 bit bidirectional IO ports I don't know who is 
familiar with the commodore 64s. But it's something to think about. I was also 
ready the APIs IO functions in simh.doc. 

One thing in C I haven't got to is this idea of function return types being 
in parenthesis. What's that for? I have seen it several times.

Bill
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[Simh] IO functions

[Bill Cunningham]

 
void (*sim_vm_init) (void)



Well what is this. The function returns nothing and takes nothing right? What's 
the *sim_VM_init in parenthesis referring too? That's my question. 


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[Simh] pdp11 and vax correction

[Bill Cunningham]

Sorry I guess that would be static libraries. posix threading, the C math 
library of course. But that was always there.

Bill
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Re: [Simh] os8/pdp8

[Bill Cunningham]

  - Original Message - 
  From: frederic fournis 
  To: bill...@suddenlink.net 
  Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 1:53 PM
  Subject: os8/pdp8


  Hi,

  My config file is the following:

  att rx0 os8_rx.dsk 
  att rx1 os8f4_rx.ok
  att rk0  advent.rk05
  boot rx0

  at the prompt:

  dir RXA0:
  dir RXA1:
  dir RKA0:

  I hope it helped you.

  have a good day


  Frederic

  What are the dir RX's mean?

  Bill
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Re: [Simh] buses

[Bill Cunningham]

  - Original Message - 
  From: Bill Cunningham 
  To: simh@trailing-edge.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 6:22 PM
  Subject: [Simh] buses


  Were the different buses like the ominibus and the unibus very much 
different? And how do they strikerealte/strike relate to today's buses? 
Would they be and address or system bus?

  Bill
  Thanks

  Sorry for the typo.


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[Simh] buses

[Bill Cunningham]

Were the different buses like the ominibus and the unibus very much 
different? And how do they realte to today's buses? Would they be and address 
or system bus?

Bill
Thanks
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[Simh] rx8e tapes and pdp8s

[Bill Cunningham]

I have two os8 files that have the extension rx01. So I am assuming they 
are rx8e floppies. I have been able to successfully attack the first file to 
rx. But the second file I can't remember if it's unit or device not available. 
But these are the files if anyone is familiar with them.

os8_v3d_bin_X.rx01 // Where the X is is 1 and 2

I can only get 1 to load. How do I load both. Is this the way the OS8 can from 
the factory?

Bill
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[Simh] rsx11m-v3.2

[Bill Cunningham]

   I am going to try once again with simh's pdp 11/70 setting generating 
the rsx11m-v3.2. From this page I mentioned before.


http://home.earthlink.net/~n1be/pdp11/PDP11.html

I was about 10 yo in 1979 so I don't remember these machines. But the pics I 
see they looked like beauties to behold. So does anyone with any experience 
in this want to give me any tips? I am going to follow directions from this 
page as far as I can understand.


Thanks,

Bill

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[Simh] rsx-11M-v3.2

[Bill Cunningham]

   I find the part of the page that involves simh setup confusing. it 
mentions a config file. I know where no config file is. It looks like the 
gzip'd files are above a directory called X. then run.sh shell script is 
run. The simh varialbe will need changed to the parth to the pdp11 simh 
emulator. I'll see what I can get done.


Bill

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[Simh] rsx-11 rk tapes

[Bill Cunningham]

   Can anyone give me a tip on how to boot from simh two rk tapes I found
that have rsx-11m v3.2 on them. They were in the sme directory as the tapes
on this page

http://home.earthlink.net/~n1be/pdp11/PDP11.html

But those disks I don't think I'm ever going to get going so I thought I'd
try these two rk tapes. But there's no instructions I can find to use them
with simh's pdp11 simulator.

Bill


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Re: [Simh] simh

[Bill Cunningham]

- Original Message - 
From: lists+s...@loomcom.com

To: simh@trailing-edge.com
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2015 6:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Simh] simh


* On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 07:41:30PM -0500, Bill Cunningham 
bill...@suddenlink.net wrote:

   Are there any docs about the way simh is constructed? Is it an
API? I know it emulates CPUs but what else?


There sure are. If you're looking for the technical nitty-gritty, you
can find a document titled Writing a Simulator for the SIMH System
on GitHub here:

https://github.com/simh/simh/blob/master/doc/simh.doc

It's in Microsoft Word format. I was unable to find a PDF version of
the DOC, so I've exported one here, temporarily:

http://www.loomcom.com/junk/simh.pdf


   That one above hit the spot. Thanks.

Bill

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Re: [Simh] rsx problem

[Bill Cunningham]

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Monceaux ke...@rawfeddogs.net

To: simh@trailing-edge.com
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2015 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Simh] rsx problem



Bill,

On Sat, Mar 07, 2015 at 01:51:56PM -0500, Bill Cunningham wrote:


- Original Message - 
From: Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm m...@infocomm.com

Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2015 12:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Simh] rsx problem

 Since the terminal window isn't start automatically, you should perform
 the suggested telnet command from another window manually BEFORE you
 follow the instructions about entering a boot command

Seems like I need to add frame buffer and windowing support as well as a
windowing system to my host system.


No, telnet doesn't need any of that.  Just replace another window in the
advice above with another shell.  After you've started SIMH go to 
wherever
you can find another command prompt on your system and perform the 
suggested
telnet command before entering a boot command.  If you're starting SIMH at 
a
Linux virtual console you could use a second virtual console to perform 
the

telnet command.  Or you could use something like GNU screen.


I am not understand ing something. I will study that script. I added 
gnome-desktop. It's fine and as you point out. nothing changes. There is a 
shell script on the page I looked at that I didn't copy maybe I need that.


shrug

Bill

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Re: [Simh] rsx problem

[Bill Cunningham]

- Original Message - 
From: Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm m...@infocomm.com

To: Bill Cunningham bill...@suddenlink.net
Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2015 12:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Simh] rsx problem


Use the original config file.  Notice that the last useful lines in the 
file are the attempt to start the separate terminal window followed by 
echo command giving instructions.  Since the terminal window isn't start 
automatically, you should perform the suggested telnet command from 
another window manually BEFORE you follow the instructions about entering 
a boot command


   Seems like I need to add frame buffer and windowing support as well as a 
windowing system to my host system.


Bill

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[Simh] RSX problem

[Bill Cunningham]

   Oh I see now. I thought this was a console simulation. Well it would 
help if I installed xterm. So I installed the Basic Desktop group for 
fedora. It looks like it might want gnome too. I have more to install. Does 
anyone who happens to know, I'm not asking anyone to go looking for stuff 
that's my job. Exactly what fedora package groups I might need for this 
simulation. Like I say if not, I'll find something.


Bill

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[Simh] rsx not working

[Bill Cunningham]

   I used the rsx files from this site.

http://home.earthlink.net/~n1be/pdp11/PDP11.html

And compiled a pdp11 simh binary. I ran in linux...

./pdp11 sim.ini

Which as a copy of the file on that page. I didn't copy run.sh the shell 
script. When I tried to boot either of the tapes the system told me it was 
searching for a telnet connection and always times out. IS there something 
wrong here?


Bill

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[Simh] rsx problem

[Bill Cunningham]

   Ok I am still officially duped. But here is a copy of the log file simh 
created.


Bill


console.log
Description: Binary data
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Re: [Simh] RSX problem

[Bill Cunningham]

- Original Message - 
From: Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm m...@infocomm.com

To: Bill Cunningham bill...@suddenlink.net; simh@trailing-edge.com
Sent: Friday, March 06, 2015 8:14 PM
Subject: RE: [Simh] RSX problem



On Saturday, March 06, 2015 at 5:02 PM, Bill Cunningham wrote:
Oh I see now. I thought this was a console simulation. Well it would 
help if I
installed xterm. So I installed the Basic Desktop group for fedora. It 
looks like

it might want gnome too. I have more to install. Does anyone who happens
to know, I'm not asking anyone to go looking for stuff that's my job. 
Exactly
what fedora package groups I might need for this simulation. Like I say 
if not,

I'll find something.


As I said, you can ignore the steps which aren't working and merely create 
a new terminal window and telnet to port 1 on the localhost.


   OK I think I might understand now.

Bill

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Re: [Simh] Regarding Cutler THE father of VMS myth

[Bill Cunningham]

- Original Message - 
From: li...@openmailbox.org

To: SIMH Simh@trailing-edge.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2015 7:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Simh] Regarding Cutler THE father of VMS myth



Incredible post! This list is worth following for the scope of information
alone, even if you never run SIMH...


On Tue, 3 Mar 2015 17:28:25 -0800
Sergey Oboguev obog...@yahoo.com wrote:


Since the topic of Cutler the Demiurg of VMS comes up once in a while
here and there...


[fantastic post deleted for brevity]


   This sounds to me that Cutler and maye RSX was about the same time that 
Ritchie and Thompson also got Unix together. And I guess it was 5 years 
later that Kildall put CP/M together. And the 8 diskette came together.


Bill

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Re: [Simh] Regarding Cutler THE father of VMS myth

[Bill Cunningham]

- Original Message - 
From: Sergey Oboguev obog...@yahoo.com

To: Bill Cunningham bill...@suddenlink.net; simh@trailing-edge.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2015 2:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Simh] Regarding Cutler THE father of VMS myth






From: Bill Cunningham bill...@suddenlink.net



I've always heard Dave Cutler given full credit
for RSX. I know he designed NTFS.


If you imply NT file system, then the history of NTFS development is 
described
at some length in the Showstopper. According to this description NTFS 
was one

of the aspects of NT Cutler did not partake in.

NTFS had other developers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS#Developers


   I apologize. It seems I have been told all kinds of wrong things.

Bill

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Re: [Simh] Regarding Cutler THE father of VMS myth

[Bill Cunningham]

- Original Message - 
From: Clem Cole cl...@ccc.com

To: Johnny Billquist b...@softjar.se
Cc: SIMH simh@trailing-edge.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2015 3:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Simh] Regarding Cutler THE father of VMS myth



Hmm since this has deteriorated into stories and history of Dave and what
he did.  I'll add one of mine and what I know.  Apologies to this group
ahead of time if you do not, but I think many of you might find it amusing
if not interesting.

I was under the impression Culter built something similar to RSX for the
PDP-10 pre-DEC (for DuPont).  At least that is what guys like Fossil, 
Clark

D'Elia who had worked with Dave on RSX, Paul Cantrell who had worked on
VMS's file systems and Tom Kent on the terminal system had always said to
me. I'm pretty sure it was the DEC sales guys that introduced him to the
engineering teams and eventually he went to work for Roger in the VAX SW
team. I've never been completely sure of the path, I think Dave came
late to RSX proper, although I thought he had a heavy hand in the 11M
implementation.

I can say, in the early 1980s, I first met him at a bar in Littleton Ma
(the old Maui ??something?? - which is now the site of the YankeeZee
River Restaurant) in Littleton, MA.Clark knew I had programmed on VAX
Serial #1 under VMS and done the TCP/IP work so was pretty familiar with
the systems and even Dave's C compiler, but prefered UNIX and Ritchie C.
 Dave and I knew of each other and had actually exchanged emails
previously but have never met in person before that night.   Clark wanted
us to meet, so he arrange for some of the VMS guys to getgether and 
dragged

me along when Cutler who was at the time at DEC west working on what would
later become Mica and had come east at that point for some mtg in Maynard
WRT uVax IIRC.   Dave Cane (Mr. VAX 750), heard the meeting was going to
happen and walked into Roger's office, who was later reported by I think 
it
was Janet Egan as having to have replied:  Oh sh*t one of them is going 
to

tear a new a*shole into the other.


Anyway, we all ended up at the bar and Clark tried to trying to start a
food fight by turning to Dave and introduced me with the words:  Dave 
meet

Clem.  He's one of the old UNIX guys and he thinks all the SW DEC built in
the last few years sucks.  But Fossil then turned to Dave and said When 
I
hired you I had a fiery red beard [he turned grey in the mid-70s], and 
then

turned to me and said and after you I went bald.  Truth is we got along
fine that night and would each buy the other a beer or two.  In fact, Dave
and I would work together a few years later on NT-OS/2 uKernel when he was
at MSFT and I was at NCR.

But that evening, I would not grant him two design issues with VMS - using
assembler instead of BLISS [DC hates BLISS] and the file naming 
conventions

[which he defended as being required to be compatible with RSX and I
replied but he wasn't]; and he would not give into the fact the UNIX had a
command system that was in his words random and unclean in the 
handling

of things like errors [I understand but accept it as a cost of that's what
happens when you have a lot of different developers as opposed to small
controlled team and in return you get a lot of useful work from a lot of
people].

The truth is we both respected the work the other had done and understand
why both systems were successful and useful and I think Clark was
disappointed it did not become a shouting match.

As for NT, Dave definitely lead Mica, which begat NT-OS/2 @ MSFT. 
Windows

was spliced into what would become NT-Windows by the time it became a
product.   But Dave's team was responsible for uKernel portion and he will
tell you he was influenced by CMU's Mach and what had made UNIX
successful.  When it was still Mica, the idea was to have two user mode
API's, one being VMS and one being UNIX with the new ukernel being coming
between them.

Clem


   That is indeed a wonderful story. So Cutler didn't hate Unix like I 
have alawys heard then?


Bill

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Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator

[Bill Cunningham]

- Original Message - 
From: li...@openmailbox.org

To: Simh@trailing-edge.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator



On Tue, 3 Mar 2015 13:28:27 -0500
Henry Bent hb...@oberlin.edu wrote:


The gunkies.org wiki has done a pretty fair job of consolidating
installation procedures for various flavors of Unix.  I believe the 
person

behind the site is on this list, perhaps he would be willing to say
whether or not he would be willing to host non-Unix SIMH instructions.


Thank you. That's a good site. I don't know if it would be good for the
purpose I mentioned but it's a good resource anyway.


   Thats what I am looking for. Simh instructions. I think from some kind 
of OS guide for RSXs one might be able to generate the system. Am I corerct 
did Dave Cutler with MS have anything to do with RSX ?


Bill

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Re: [Simh] Is Alpha AXP in SIMH's future?

[Bill Cunningham]

- Original Message - 
From: li...@openmailbox.org

To: Simh@trailing-edge.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Simh] Is Alpha AXP in SIMH's future?



On Tue, 3 Mar 2015 09:31:58 -0800
Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm m...@infocomm.com wrote:


On Tuesday, March 3, 2015 at 9:26 AM, li...@openmailbox.org wrote:
 Is an Alpha machine capable of running OpenVMS in SIMH's future? I know
 there are several Alpha emulators for Linux and Windows but I really
 like SIMH since it runs on pretty much any UNIX-like OS and doesn't
 depend on having a 64-bit Linux installed.

Well, Bob implemented the guts of an Alpha simulator and that code is in
the current github repository.

Bob classified this simulator in the 'beta' category, with beta, in this
case, meaning 'a simulator which hasn't been finished'.

If someone has the ability and interest to get this simulator fully
working, I'll be here to support those activities.


I wish I could help but sadly I can't since C and I don't get along. 
Thanks

for the update.


   C's been rough to me too. But I keep trying. It and 16 bit assembly I 
will eventually master :)


Bill

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Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator

[Bill Cunningham]

- Original Message - 
From: Vorländer, Martin m...@pdv-systeme.de

To: Simh@trailing-edge.com
Cc: Bill Cunningham bill...@suddenlink.net
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 2:39 AM
Subject: Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator





Am 03.03.2015 um 04:29 schrieb Bill Cunningham bill...@suddenlink.net:

   Is there an instruction sheet anywhere for simh to load the rsx OS I
think it's rsx-11m to use with the pdp11 simh emulator?


I once found http://home.earthlink.net/~n1be/pdp11/PDP11.html
but haven’t yet had the time to try and follow the instructions.


   That's what I'm looking for. But how does one set up the pdp11 with 
simh. I think there's the best pdp11 emulator. Of course there are others.


Bill

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Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator

[Bill Cunningham]

- Original Message - 
From: Sergey Oboguev obog...@yahoo.com

To: Simh@trailing-edge.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator



There is a couple of publicly accessible system running RSX-11M+.

***

The first one I know of is located in Novosibirsk and runs
RSX-11M-PLUS V4.6 BL87.

Some days it is executed by SimH, other days by Ersatz-11.

To access,
telnet rsx.pdp-11.org.ru


   That russian site is very nice


Then log in as
HEL GUEST/  (note the slash before empty password field)

Web page (in Russian):
http://pdp-11.org.ru/~form/ctakah.html

To get an account or for other inquiries contact supp...@pdp-11.org.ru.

Login screen reports the date as 4-MAR-15, so the system must be Y2K aware
at least to the extent of mostly running.

***

Another one is hosted in IL, but the owner seems to be in MA.

http://www.dbit.com

telnet rsx.dbit.com


   This one I can't quite get to.


Specifically, if you want to plug your old dusty Unibus or Q-bus card
into a PC, knock there.


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[Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator

[Bill Cunningham]

   Is there an instruction sheet anywhere for simh to load the rsx OS I 
think it's rsx-11m to use with the pdp11 simh emulator?


Bill

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