Re: [Simh] Has anyone contacted VSI directly about Hobbyist Licenses ?

[Dave Wade]

Mike,
Not really huge. OpenVms  for VAX ISO is 180Mb and that includes DECNET and 
TCP-IP, and so that’s enough to get started.
The language installs are all small. 10-20Mb.
Dave

> -Original Message-
> From: Mike Stramba 
> Sent: 13 May 2020 21:49
> To: Dave Wade 
> Cc: Steven M Jones ; simh@trailing-edge.com
> Subject: Re: [Simh] Has anyone contacted VSI directly about Hobbyist
> Licenses ?
> 
> Ok thx.
> 
> Ya I put "personal learning"
> 
> On a related note, do you guys know of a cheap shared 'nix hosting service
> where I can run Openvms ?
> 
> I have a free account on alwaysdata.net at the moment, and will look into
> their paid options.
> 
> Eventually I will run it on my own box but I have a very slow connection right
> now, and I'm guessing the download is (relatively) huge  (how big is it ?)
> 
> Mikec
> 
> On 5/13/20, Dave Wade  wrote:
> > Can take 24 hours. Its done in India.
> > Did you fill in the "what I am going to use it for" box
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Simh  On Behalf Of Mike
> Stramba
> >> Sent: 13 May 2020 21:32
> >> To: Steven M Jones 
> >> Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com
> >> Subject: Re: [Simh] Has anyone contacted VSI directly about Hobbyist
> >> Licenses ?
> >>
> >> Hmm,  ~ 16 hours after submitting , and still no reply / license info
> >>
> >> How long does license issue  usually take ?
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >>
> >> On 4/28/20, Steven M Jones  wrote:
> >> > On 04/28/2020 15:00, Richard wrote:
> >> >> In article <581a87f9-4be6-7bde-badb-
> 30b563a01...@thereinhardts.org>,
> >> >>  "John H. Reinhardt"  writes:
> >> >>
> >> >>> In the meantime, if you haven't, get your HPE Hobbyist license(s)
> >> >>> as they are counting the number of participants which may go to VSI.
> >> >>> The new license will not expire until January 1, 2022.
> >> >> I've been lax with my VAXen.  How do I do this again?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Should be able to do that here:
> >> > https://www.hpe.com/h41268/live/index_e.aspx?qid=24548
> >> >
> >> > You'll need to be affiliated with a group in their list. I
> >> > recommend DECUServe, my understanding is they don't have any
> >> > geographic requirements. You can do that by telnet or ssh to
> >> > eisner.decuserve.org, username REGISTRATION (no password, just hit
> >> > Return), and follow the prompts. It'll take some time for the data
> >> > to propagate to HPE if you have to create an account, measured in
> >> > days not
> >> weeks.
> >> >
> >> > "Share & Enjoy!"
> >> > --S.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ___
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> >> > Simh@trailing-edge.com
> >> > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
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> >> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
> >
> >

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Re: [Simh] Has anyone contacted VSI directly about Hobbyist Licenses ?

[Dave Wade]

Can take 24 hours. Its done in India.
Did you fill in the "what I am going to use it for" box

Dave

> -Original Message-
> From: Simh  On Behalf Of Mike Stramba
> Sent: 13 May 2020 21:32
> To: Steven M Jones 
> Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com
> Subject: Re: [Simh] Has anyone contacted VSI directly about Hobbyist
> Licenses ?
> 
> Hmm,  ~ 16 hours after submitting , and still no reply / license info
> 
> How long does license issue  usually take ?
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> On 4/28/20, Steven M Jones  wrote:
> > On 04/28/2020 15:00, Richard wrote:
> >> In article <581a87f9-4be6-7bde-badb-30b563a01...@thereinhardts.org>,
> >>  "John H. Reinhardt"  writes:
> >>
> >>> In the meantime, if you haven't, get your HPE Hobbyist license(s) as
> >>> they are counting the number of participants which may go to VSI.
> >>> The new license will not expire until January 1, 2022.
> >> I've been lax with my VAXen.  How do I do this again?
> >
> >
> > Should be able to do that here:
> > https://www.hpe.com/h41268/live/index_e.aspx?qid=24548
> >
> > You'll need to be affiliated with a group in their list. I recommend
> > DECUServe, my understanding is they don't have any geographic
> > requirements. You can do that by telnet or ssh to
> > eisner.decuserve.org, username REGISTRATION (no password, just hit
> > Return), and follow the prompts. It'll take some time for the data to
> > propagate to HPE if you have to create an account, measured in days not
> weeks.
> >
> > "Share & Enjoy!"
> > --S.
> >
> >
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> > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
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Re: [Simh] OpenVms on SIMH - which license ?

[Dave Wade]

Mike,
I think for SIMH you only need VAX, but I got VAX/ALPHA as there are Alpha 
emulators around. 
"Integrity" is for Itanium and I can't see an Itanium emulator appearing soon.
Make sure you fill in the box that says what you are going to use it for.
Its marked as "not mandatory" but I have seen reports that if you don't they 
don't send a licence.
Dave 

> -Original Message-
> From: Simh  On Behalf Of Mike Stramba
> Sent: 13 May 2020 03:51
> To: simh@trailing-edge.com
> Subject: [Simh] OpenVms on SIMH - which license ?
> 
> Which license should I choose to run OpenVms on Simh ? :
> 
> The registration for OpenVms at :
> 
> https://www.hpe.com/h41268/live/index_e.aspx?qid=24548
> 
> has these choices :
> 
>│ 2: OpenVMS VAX/Alpha   │
>│ 3: OpenVMS Integrity   │
>  4: OpenVMS VAX/Alpha and OpenVMS Integrity
> 
> thx
> 
> Mike
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Re: [Simh] Newbie questions about VMS for VAX

[Dave Wade]

> 2. About the versions of (Open)VMS. As I understand, 7.3 is the newest
> version for VAX, and it's still rather old, but I'm okay with that, and 
> possibly
> with even older versions. Does the HPE hobbyist program license older
> versions than 7.3 for the VAX? Do all versions require licenses? There are
> various old VMS versions circulating over the Internet, are they any good?


HPE will if you ask, send you a link to 7.3 if you ask. Whilst 7.3 is old its 
pretty good.
If you ask they will send you Alpha & VAX licences. There are later version of 
VMS for Alpha.
There are some Alpha emulators about but not as good as the alpha emulators..

> 
> Again, sorry if these questions have obvious answers; because for me, they
> don't. Thanks in advance.

Dave

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Re: [Simh] Command mode on SIMH for Windows

[Dave Wade]

I think some of the control keys get snaffled by windows. Might be worth
disabling "control keys shortcuts"  on the cmd window.

Dave 

 

From: Simh  On Behalf Of Timothy Stark
Sent: 16 January 2020 17:22
To: simh@trailing-edge.com
Subject: [Simh] Command mode on SIMH for Windows

 

I am now set SIMH up on Windows 10 system.  I tried to enter command mode
from console by press ^E but it did not response. I can't exit SIMH until I
closed windows. 

 

Does anyone know which key for Windows to enter command mode?

 

Thanks,

Tim

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Re: [Simh] dec windows with simh

[Dave Wade]

Gérard,

It depends on how you want to present the windows on your PC. It you want to 
use a separate X-Windows client and connect that to the emulated VAX then I 
think any SIMH emulation is fine.
On the other hand if you want a SIMH managed frame buffer or display then I 
think that as some one else mentioned the MicroVAX II includes a frame buffer 
and you can run it all from one executable.
The key lines in the ".ini" file are:-

set qdss capture
set qdss enable

I also issue a 

attach dz0 77

which lets me use a telnet session as a separate VT102 type console.

Dave


> -Original Message-
> From: Simh  On Behalf Of gérard Calliet
> Sent: 26 July 2019 07:53
> To: simh@trailing-edge.com
> Subject: [Simh] dec windows with simh
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I have used for a long time the simh emulation of microvax 3900. I need now
> to install and run DEC Windows on it.
> 
> Do you think it is possible? And is there a better simh VAX model for that?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Gérard Calliet
> 
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Re: [Simh] More VAX Simulators

[Dave Wade]

Ray,

That’s about what it takes on a real VLC. Its so slow. I just burn to an ISO.

Dave

 

From: Simh  On Behalf Of Ray Jewhurst
Sent: 04 May 2019 04:05
To: Stafford Winters 
Cc: simh 
Subject: Re: [Simh] More VAX Simulators

 

I finally figured it out by setting console speed=300 on the simulator.  It is 
quite slow (takes about half an hour) but it works! ;-)

 

Thank you everyone for your advice,

 

Ray

 

On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 11:02 PM Stafford Winters mailto:stafford.wint...@gmail.com> > wrote:

The VTstar terminal emulator (for Windows and free) has some settings in the 
Options, Preferences menu, in the Timing button dialog.  I think you can 
probably work out the problem using that.

On 5/2/2019 5:36 PM, Ray Jewhurst wrote:

I tried doing a VMS 7.3 CD install on the 4000/60 and it went swimmingly until 
I tried to install the PAKs and I got this:

 

$! 
$!HPE HOBBY LICENSE AGREEMENT
$!   
%CREATE-E-READERR, error reading SYS$INPUT:.;
-RMS-F-RER, file read error
-SYSTEM-W-DATAOVERUN, data overrun

 

I am running 72 Megs and I do not get this error on 3900 or MicroVAX II.  I 
know there is another way to copy the PAKs over using an iso but the 
instructions in the Hobbyist letter seemed kind of fuzzy to me.  Am I doing 
anything wrong or is the the way a 4000/60 should behave?

 

Thanks

 

Ray

 

On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 6:16 PM Matt Burke mailto:m...@9track.net> > wrote:

On 01/05/2019 13:36, m...@wickensonline.co.uk  
 wrote:
> Matt
>
> I've built the VAXstation 4000/60 and 4000/VLC images. Is it possible to post 
> an example simh.ini file for either or both of these please, it would save me 
> some considerable guesswork!
>
> I have just reconfigured a FreeAXP emulator running on Windows which contains 
> SLAVE, formerly an AlphaServer 1000A. It serves up a cluster member disk for 
> a 4000/VLC so that will be a great test of your new systems.
>
> I previously had lots of trouble with FreeAXP and SIMH residing on the same 
> windows box, turns out that FreeAXP really doesn't like WinPCap - it crashes 
> on startup and it is very difficult to kill the image.
>
> Regards, Mark.
>
Hi Mark,

The first thing to note (if you haven't spotted it already) is that the
simulators have been merged into the Simh master branch and a number of
fixes have been applied. CD-ROM and tape drive support is now included
along with fixes to the memory sizing for the M60 and VLC.


The VAXstation 4000/60 and 4000/VLC are very similar so this simh.ini
will work for both:

; Set system memory size
;   M60 can be one of 8m, 16m, 24m, 32m, 40m, 48m, 56m, 72m, 80m, 104m
;   VLC can be one of 8m, 16m, 24m
;
set cpu 24m
;
; Attach the NVRAM device
;
attach nvr vaxstation4000.nvr
;
; Set the MAC address in the network address ROM
; This will need to match whatever your boot server is expecting
;
set nar mac=08:00:2b:40:00:60
;
; Setup local SCSI disks if required (here are a few examples)
; Also try 'help rz'
;
; set rz0 rz26
; attach rz0 disk0.img
; set rz1 disable
; set rz2 disable
; set rz3 disable
; set rz4 rrd40
; attach rz4 vms73.iso
; set rz5 tz30
; attach rz5 backup.tap
; rz6 is always disabled because this is the initiator SCSI ID
; set rz7 disable
;
; Enable LANCE Ethernet (device ESA0 under VMS)
;
set xs enable
;
; Attach Ethernet device to a host interface
;
attach xs eth0
;
; Start the simulator
;
boot cpu

The first time the ROM self-test runs after the memory size is changed
or after attaching a new NVRAM file it will perform a thorough memory
test. This can take quite a long time especially with 104MB. You will
see multiple selftest failures but don't worry about it, they're
expected for now. After the self-test completes I would recommend
enabling the fast boot option:

>>> SET FBOOT 1

This will significantly speed up subsequent restarts of the simulator.
Eventually I'll patch the ROM to skip the memory tests.

Assuming your boot server is all setup you can now boot from the Ethernet:

>>> BOOT ESA0

I haven't tested Ethernet booting on these simulators for quite some
time so I hope it works!

Let me know how it goes.

Matt

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Re: [Simh] More VAX Simulators

[Dave Wade]

This is a common problem. Usually one has to slow the terminal down at the 
terminal end, but I guess this isn’t possible with an integrated terminal…

 

Dave

 

From: Simh  On Behalf Of Ray Jewhurst
Sent: 03 May 2019 02:25
To: Stafford Winters 
Cc: simh 
Subject: Re: [Simh] More VAX Simulators

 

That didn't work either, someone previously suggested I try /hostsync so I 
tried that along with altypahd too to no avail.

 

Thanks

 

Ray

 

On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 9:07 PM Stafford Winters mailto:stafford.wint...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I seem to recall a setting on physical terminals which limited the rate at 
which keystrokes were sent to the computer.  This may be a factor.

It appears as if your input includes carriage returns, and it needs to.

It may be that turning on the altypahd terminal setting may allow a greater 
stream of input before choking.  It may work for you.

On 5/2/2019 5:36 PM, Ray Jewhurst wrote:

I tried doing a VMS 7.3 CD install on the 4000/60 and it went swimmingly until 
I tried to install the PAKs and I got this:

 

$! 
$!HPE HOBBY LICENSE AGREEMENT
$!   
%CREATE-E-READERR, error reading SYS$INPUT:.;
-RMS-F-RER, file read error
-SYSTEM-W-DATAOVERUN, data overrun

 

I am running 72 Megs and I do not get this error on 3900 or MicroVAX II.  I 
know there is another way to copy the PAKs over using an iso but the 
instructions in the Hobbyist letter seemed kind of fuzzy to me.  Am I doing 
anything wrong or is the the way a 4000/60 should behave?

 

Thanks

 

Ray

 

On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 6:16 PM Matt Burke mailto:m...@9track.net> > wrote:

On 01/05/2019 13:36, m...@wickensonline.co.uk  
 wrote:
> Matt
>
> I've built the VAXstation 4000/60 and 4000/VLC images. Is it possible to post 
> an example simh.ini file for either or both of these please, it would save me 
> some considerable guesswork!
>
> I have just reconfigured a FreeAXP emulator running on Windows which contains 
> SLAVE, formerly an AlphaServer 1000A. It serves up a cluster member disk for 
> a 4000/VLC so that will be a great test of your new systems.
>
> I previously had lots of trouble with FreeAXP and SIMH residing on the same 
> windows box, turns out that FreeAXP really doesn't like WinPCap - it crashes 
> on startup and it is very difficult to kill the image.
>
> Regards, Mark.
>
Hi Mark,

The first thing to note (if you haven't spotted it already) is that the
simulators have been merged into the Simh master branch and a number of
fixes have been applied. CD-ROM and tape drive support is now included
along with fixes to the memory sizing for the M60 and VLC.


The VAXstation 4000/60 and 4000/VLC are very similar so this simh.ini
will work for both:

; Set system memory size
;   M60 can be one of 8m, 16m, 24m, 32m, 40m, 48m, 56m, 72m, 80m, 104m
;   VLC can be one of 8m, 16m, 24m
;
set cpu 24m
;
; Attach the NVRAM device
;
attach nvr vaxstation4000.nvr
;
; Set the MAC address in the network address ROM
; This will need to match whatever your boot server is expecting
;
set nar mac=08:00:2b:40:00:60
;
; Setup local SCSI disks if required (here are a few examples)
; Also try 'help rz'
;
; set rz0 rz26
; attach rz0 disk0.img
; set rz1 disable
; set rz2 disable
; set rz3 disable
; set rz4 rrd40
; attach rz4 vms73.iso
; set rz5 tz30
; attach rz5 backup.tap
; rz6 is always disabled because this is the initiator SCSI ID
; set rz7 disable
;
; Enable LANCE Ethernet (device ESA0 under VMS)
;
set xs enable
;
; Attach Ethernet device to a host interface
;
attach xs eth0
;
; Start the simulator
;
boot cpu

The first time the ROM self-test runs after the memory size is changed
or after attaching a new NVRAM file it will perform a thorough memory
test. This can take quite a long time especially with 104MB. You will
see multiple selftest failures but don't worry about it, they're
expected for now. After the self-test completes I would recommend
enabling the fast boot option:

>>> SET FBOOT 1

This will significantly speed up subsequent restarts of the simulator.
Eventually I'll patch the ROM to skip the memory tests.

Assuming your boot server is all setup you can now boot from the Ethernet:

>>> BOOT ESA0

I haven't tested Ethernet booting on these simulators for quite some
time so I hope it works!

Let me know how it goes.

Matt

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Re: [Simh] VCB02 Released

[Dave Wade]

I have been run DEC windows on a Vax Station VLC and was very surprised to see 
how well it performed.
I have run a few games, and a few PGPLOT test programs. I will try the same on 
thus

Dave

> -Original Message-
> From: Simh  On Behalf Of Zane Healy
> Sent: 06 April 2019 21:41
> To: Matt Burke 
> Cc: Simh Trailing-Edge Mailing List 
> Subject: Re: [Simh] VCB02 Released
> 
> This is really good news, thank you.  This is something I’ve been wanting to
> play with.  I’ve used DECwindows quite a bit on my Alpha’s, but never on my
> VAXen.  I have (at least I think I still have it), a VAXstation II/RC with the
> monochrome monitor, but never got VMS going on it, as I ended up with a
> MicroVAX II, and then quickly a VAXstation 3100.
> 
> There are some VAX/VMS 5.5-2 era things that I want to give a try.
> 
> Zane
> 
> 
> 
> > On Apr 6, 2019, at 10:03 AM, Matt Burke  wrote:
> >
> > The long awaited VCB02 (colour graphics adapter) for VAX has now been
> > released. It hasn't been merged into the Simh master branch yet but
> > for now you can get the code from:
> >
> > https://github.com/9track/simh/tree/VCB02
> >
> > If you need a Windows executable then that's available here:
> >
> > http://www.9track.net/simh/vax630
> >
> > Here is the current status for the graphical environments that I've tested:
> >
> > DECwindows - All OK as far as I can tell.
> > VWS - Works but leaves trails on the screen if you drag a window.
> > UWS - Works but certain visual elements such as window icons are
> > missing. Also I'm not sure the colours a are quite right. I will have
> > to test this on a real VAX to check.
> >
> > Only captured input mode is currently supported. This must be set
> > before enabling the device.
> >
> > sim> set qdss capture
> > sim> set qdss enabled
> >
> > The VCB02 has only been added to the MicroVAX II simulator so far
> > (VAXstation II/GPX). I know there have been some discussions
> > previously about the MicroVAX 3900 supporting the VCB02 though I've
> > not had success with that yet.
> >
> >
> > Matt
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Re: [Simh] Cluster communications errors

[Dave Wade]

Hunter,

Is it set to Autosense Speed and Duplex? Is it getting confused? Can it be set 
to a fixed speed.

Dave

 

From: Simh  On Behalf Of Hunter Goatley
Sent: 18 July 2018 16:58
To: Simh 
Subject: Re: [Simh] Cluster communications errors

 

My mistake. I'm not running V4.0, I'm running V3.10-0 RC1.

After posting, it dawned on me that I should have tried SIMH V3.9.0, but it 
fails to boot:

(BOOT/R5:0 DUA0
 
 
 
  2..
-DUA0
  1..0..
 
HALT instruction, PC: 4C02 (HALT)
sim>

I'm not sure why. I'm using the KA655x.bin that came with V3.9.0 and a new 
nvram.bin file, but everything else is the same as the V3.10-0 RC1 instance.

I just downloaded the current GitHub sources and compiled them ( 
 
15fd71b). It boots, but I see the same behavior of losing connection to the 
cluster.

I also should have mentioned that this dedicated Ethernet card is plugged into 
the same switch as all of the other cluster members, so that shouldn't be an 
issue.

Thanks.

Hunter

 
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Re: [Simh] PDP for beginners

[Dave Wade]

> -Original Message-
> From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Pär
> Moberg
> Sent: 03 February 2018 02:26
> To: simh@trailing-edge.com
> Subject: [Simh] PDP for beginners
> 
> I am looking to put up a PDP-# machine to play with. What machine and OS
> should I use. I am looking for simple/beginner system, or as beginner it got.

I think I would start with a PDP-8. NO telnet terminal. Simple OS, lots of 
software and support. If you want blinken lights try one of these:-

http://obsolescence.wixsite.com/obsolescence/pidp-8-get-one

its SIMH with a nice panel

> Also, not *nix, it is still alive and therefore boring.
> Telnet terminals would be awesome but not necessary.
> //Pär (or Paer)
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Re: [Simh] BLISS and C

[Dave Wade]

> -Original Message-
> From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Phil
> Budne
> Sent: 30 January 2018 00:17
> To: simh@trailing-edge.com
> Subject: Re: [Simh] BLISS and C
> 
> > I also think that Dave was asking for a B compiler, and not a BCPL 
> > compiler...
> 

Yes

> Amongst the PDP-7 UNIX files was a B runtime, which someone on the team
> was able to decipher well enough to write a B compiler in a C
> subset:
> 
> https://github.com/DoctorWkt/pdp7-unix/blob/master/tools/b.c
> 
> And then make self-hosting, in:
> https://github.com/DoctorWkt/pdp7-unix/tree/master/src/other
> 
> ISTR, the compiler generates something like more threaded code, as
> opposed native instructions, but the output is fed to the assembler (along
> with runtime source) to make an executable.
> 

Sounds like an interesting project... 

> A paper I first saw VERY recently describes Thompson bringing up the B
> interpreter on the CPU of a Merganthaller phototypsetter (since the vendor
> supplied S/W was too limited for them to use).
> 
> Ah:
> https://www.cs.princeton.edu/~bwk/202/summer.scanned.pdf
> document p8 (pdf p9)
> 
> ... KLT resurected the B interpreter.  B is a good language for a
> 16-bit word-oriented minicomputer, and most of our subsequent 202
> programs have been written in B.
> ___

I will have a look at that


> Simh mailing list
> Simh@trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Dave


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Re: [Simh] BLISS and C

[Dave Wade]

> -Original Message-
> From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Bob
> Eager
> Sent: 29 January 2018 22:08
> To: simh@trailing-edge.com
> Subject: Re: [Simh] BLISS and C
> 
> On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 12:05:01 -0500
> Clem Cole  wrote:
> 
> > One can argue, why did Ken not just build something more like BCPL
> > instead of B?  I can not say, maybe the brevity of { } from PL/1 was
> > more attractive than the Algol BEGIN/END style?
> 
> BCPL was, in any case, using $( $) and (later) { }. It never used BEGIN/END.
> 

The "B" compiler I used on the Honeywell L6000/L66 used { }.

> And the major drawback of BCPL (which I love) was that it was word
> oriented. Most machine architectures were not (OK, PDP-10...) One had to
> use contortions, and a special % operator, to access bytes efficiently.
> 

"B" is similar, characters were accessed by functions rather than a special 
operator, but you can, I think use a combination of shifts and logical 
operators
... those familiar with BCPL or C who have not encountered B may find the 
manual here interesting...

https://www.bell-labs.com/usr/dmr/www/bref.html

it would be nice to find a working compiler for a word based machine...

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Re: [Simh] Simh Digest, Vol 168, Issue 1

[Dave Wade]

Bob,

The HECNET group, or the dec tec (http://dectec.info/) or even the usenet
news groups might be better places to ask.

Dave

 

From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Larry Baker
Sent: 07 January 2018 00:51
To: Bob Supnik 
Cc: simh 
Subject: Re: [Simh] Simh Digest, Vol 168, Issue 1

 

Bob,

 

I don't think we ever bought a source kit license.  I do remember VMS used
to come with source fiche.  That's a different beast, yes?  I'm not even
sure I have those any more.

 

Alan Frisbie is a good person to ask.  He's a pack rat. :)

 

Larry Baker
US Geological Survey
650-329-5608
ba...@usgs.gov  





 

On 6 Jan 2018, at 9:00:01 AM, simh-requ...@trailing-edge.com
  wrote:

 

--

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2018 20:53:21 -0500
From: Bob Supnik <  b...@supnik.org>
To: "  simh@trailing-edge.com" <
 simh@trailing-edge.com>
Subject: [Simh] VMS Source Kit end user license agreement
Message-ID: < 
2d535db5-466d-eca5-0360-5df9f9dc2...@supnik.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

Does anyone on the mailing list have the end-user license that went with 
a VMS source kit? I have a kit, but I no longer have the license 
document that came with it.

The VMS group would like to get a copy of the license agreement, as 
apparently HP can't find the original master.

Thanks,

/Bob SUpnik




 

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Re: [Simh] Fwd: [TUHS] An abandoned piece of K C

[Dave Wade]

I can’t see the original context, but he presented at a VCF festival at InfoAge 
Wall, New Jersey..

http://vcfed.org/wp/vcf-museum/

so the folks there must have a contact..

 

Dave

 

From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Leo Broukhis
Sent: 10 November 2017 07:49
To: Larry Stewart 
Cc: SIMH 
Subject: Re: [Simh] Fwd: [TUHS] An abandoned piece of K C

 

On the StackExchange page https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/q/4965/4025

 

I got a comment: Re: the Ken Thompson addition and, therefore, the idea of 
asking the people that were actually there; Kernighan remains an employee of 
Google and can sometimes be spotted at the NYC office. Sadly I recently left 
but if anybody else here is a Googler then the usual internal means might allow 
a query to be put if appropriate respect is applied. I attended a presentation 
he gave while I was there and he seems like a very approachable fellow.

 

Can anyone contact Mr. Kernighan?

 

Thanks,

Leo

 

On Fri, Nov 3, 2017 at 1:42 PM, Leo Broukhis  > wrote:

Well, somebody had to have done it! 

 

 

On Fri, Nov 3, 2017 at 1:22 PM, Larry Stewart  > wrote:

I took the liberty of cross posting this earlier to TUHS and I got 

an authoritative answer :)

-Larry

 





Begin forwarded message:

 

From: Ken Thompson  >

Subject: Re: [TUHS] Fwd: [Simh] An abandoned piece of K C

Date: 2017, November 3 at 2:30:08 PM EDT

To: Lawrence Stewart  >

 

it's news to me.



 

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Re: [Simh] simh & pdp-8 os-8 forums / help

[Dave Wade]

Also lots of info on

https://www.pdp8.net/

Dave

> -Original Message-
> From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Al
> Kossow
> Sent: 24 June 2017 18:23
> To: simh@trailing-edge.com
> Subject: Re: [Simh] simh & pdp-8 os-8 forums / help
> 
> 
> 
> On 6/24/17 9:40 AM, Buddy Bell wrote:
> > Googling does not
> > show any DEC PDP centric forums
> 
> http://www.vcfed.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?23-DEC
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Simh] simh & pdp-8 os-8 forums / help

[Dave Wade]

> -Original Message-
> From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Buddy
> Bell
> Sent: 24 June 2017 17:40
> To: simh@trailing-edge.com
> Subject: [Simh] simh & pdp-8 os-8 forums / help
> 
> I have spent about 2 hours trying to figure out why my new simh/PDP8 does
> not have an LPT device by trying to locate the right forum to ask for help.  
> If
> this is the wrong place please forgive.  Googling does not show any DEC PDP
> centric forums (So I created my own Yahoo group


http://dectec.info/
http://www.classiccmp.org/cctalk.html

also 

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/sparetimegizmos/info

as lots of SBC6120 (PDP-8 based clone) folks are on there...

Dave

> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/VintageDEC/info).  If you know of
> any existing forums please pass it on.

Please don't split the resources further...

> 
> When I key:
> 
> LIST TEXT.PA
> 
> I get the message:
> 
> LPT DOES NOT EXIST
> 
> When I start the emulator I have been keying:
> 
> attach LPT text.txt
> 
> and no error is reported.
> 
> Any guidance would be appreciated.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Buddy Bell
> 
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Re: [Simh] PDP 10 Software?

[Dave Wade]

Its ok for me.

 

Dave

 

From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Rob Jarratt
Sent: 20 December 2016 08:37
To: simh@trailing-edge.com
Subject: [Simh] PDP 10 Software?

 

Anyone know what happened to http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/? This is the
link from the Software Kits page
(http://simh.trailing-edge.com/software.html) for the PDP-10.

 

Regards

 

Rob 

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Re: [Simh] RT-11 source

[Dave Wade]

PDP-11 OS’s or OS’s in general? 

IBM’s S/370 VM/370R6 (a very old version) has two OS’s CP and CMS and both can 
be built from source..

 

Dave

G4UGM

 

From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of khandy21yo
Sent: 23 October 2016 21:12
To: Al Kossow ; simh@trailing-edge.com
Subject: Re: [Simh] RT-11 source

 

Is there a list of OS that have sufficient sources to rebuild it?

Would be intresting to those who want to play.research OS designs.

I suspect a lot of the old OS have lost their source code.

 

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Re: [Simh] RT-11 source

[Dave Wade]

Ray,

 

I really suggest that you look at the Tanenbaum book. It goes into each 
component of an operating system and explains the structures that it uses and 
how the parts fit together. Looking at the code often does not explain this. 
Even were there are comments the usually don’t explain how things mesh, which 
is all important.

 

Dave

 

From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Ray Jewhurst
Sent: 23 October 2016 03:20
To: Johnny Billquist 
Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com
Subject: Re: [Simh] RT-11 source

 

Thank you Johnny. I may ruffle some feathers, but I hate C.  I am mildly 
autistic and the way my mind works I actually prefer assembly over high level 
languages. I would really like a blueprint to see what I am doing. Is there 
commented code for DOS/BATCH? Or even CAPS-11. I would like love to see a fully 
commented kernel to see what I am up against. 

Thanks 
Ray 

 

On Oct 22, 2016 9:11 PM, "Johnny Billquist"  > wrote:

While we're at it then... Ray asked for RT-11, since he felt that it was 
smaller and simpler than most other operating systems available, and also 
because he felt more comfortable with assembler than some other language.

Both those points are missed with any Unix-like OS, even if the intention is 
good.

I could just as well offer up RSX, since it actually comes with source where 
the comments are still in place, and it's actually written in assembler for the 
most part as well. However, it is a much more complex system than RT-11, and in 
some ways probably more complex than Unix as well. So I don't think it might be 
a good choice if you just want to understand how an OS works.

In fact, I would probably suggest Ray start with just writing some code to do 
some simple things without looking at existing code. The first thing needed 
would be to just have something that can load programs from a device, and run 
them. This will require some simple device driver, some simple file system, and 
a simple command line interpreter. Then you can go on an expand from there. 
You'll soon realize things you want to abstract away, and deal with in a 
somewhat coherent way.
I wouldn't bother with interrupt system, MMU, or any more fancy stuff to start 
with. A plain 64K PDP-11, with the program loader just located in one end, and 
then go from there. Do system calls through TRAP, EMT or some other 
instruction, and then have a vector installed. If the user program overwrites 
that, tough luck.

Johnny



On 2016-10-23 02:45, Nelson H. F. Beebe wrote:

Ray Jewhurst  > asks 
today for documented
operating system source code for the PDP-11.  Besides the Lions' Unix
v6 code, there is also Doug Comer's Xinu project about which he wrote
several books.  Current versions are targeted at x86 and ARM CPUs,

http://www.xinu.cs.purdue.edu/

but he still provides code for older systems (PDP-11, SPARC, VAX):

ftp://ftp.cs.purdue.edu/pub/comer/

There is more about him here, including links to his books Web site:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Comer

---
- Nelson H. F. BeebeTel: +1 801 581 5254 
   -
- University of UtahFAX: +1 801 581 4148 
   -
- Department of Mathematics, 110 LCBInternet e-mail: be...@math.utah.edu 
   -
- 155 S 1400 E RM 233   be...@acm.org 
   be...@computer.org   -
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-- 
Johnny Billquist  || "I'm on a bus
  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: b...@softjar.se   ||  Reading murder 
books
pdp is alive! ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

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Re: [Simh] RT-11 source

[Dave Wade]

> -Original Message-
> From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Al
> Kossow
> Sent: 22 October 2016 23:53
> To: simh@trailing-edge.com
> Subject: Re: [Simh] RT-11 source
> 
> 
> 
> On 10/22/16 2:46 PM, Jacob Goense wrote:
> > On 2016-10-22 12:55, Al Kossow wrote:
> >> On 10/22/16 7:44 AM, Ray Jewhurst wrote:
> >>> I have an idea for project to teach my self rudimentary OS design and I
> would like to use RT-11 as an example
> >>>
> >>
> >> Did anyone ever port MINIX to the PDP-11?
> >
> > No way.
> >
> 
> It ran on an 8088
> 

I think Minix and the Tannenbaum book are a great start for anyone wanting to 
learn about operating systems. The latest Minix 3 compiles with a public domain 
compiler. The book is available on Abe Books for under $10.

Dave
G4UGM

> 
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Re: [Simh] Ferranti Pegasus Simulator

[Dave Wade]

Thanks for all the replies, I really had a mental block over this and no amount 
of reading the Wikipedia articles helped at all..

Just to mention a couple of things. I started on this a long time ago, which is 
why it isn't SIMH. I guess one day I will re-visit doing it in SIMH.

Bob's point about "was it an exact algorithm" prompted me to read the Pegasus 
Maintenance Manuals, which are on Bitsavers here:-

ftp://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/ferranti/pegasus/Pegasus_Maint_Vol2_May56.pdf

which I now find describes in great detail the repeated subtraction process in 
great detail. It is an exact algorithm and its very similar to the one below, 
so I think I am now good to go.
(any one else reading this a "Staticisor" is basically a latch or register)

If you want to see how I progress I will be recording progress on my 
"hackaday.io" projects page.

https://hackaday.io/projects/hacker/99268

Dave
G4GM


> -Original Message-
> From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Bob Supnik
> Sent: 11 June 2016 02:53
> To: simh@trailing-edge.com
> Subject: Re: [Simh] Ferranti Pegasus Simulator
> 
> There are any number of strange-length divide algorithms in SimH. Here is the
> PDP-10 code for dividing a 70b unsigned integer by a 35b
> (unsigned) integer.
> 
> // dvd[0:1] = 70b dividend, high order first (35b in each word) // dvr = 35b
> divisor // rs[0:1] = quotient remainder // all variables (except i)  are 
> unsigned
> 64b
> 
>  for (i = 0, rs[0] = 0; i < 35; i++) {   /* 35 quotient
> bits */
>  dvd[0] = (dvd[0] << 1) | ((dvd[1] >> 34) & 1);
>  dvd[1] = (dvd[1] << 1) & MMASK; /* shift
> dividend and mask */
>  rs[0] = rs[0] << 1; /* shift
> quotient */
>  if (dvd[0] >= dvr) {/* subtract
> work? */
>  dvd[0] = dvd[0] - dvr;  /* quo bit is 1 */
>  rs[0] = rs[0] + 1;
>  }
>  }
>  rs[1] = dvd[0]; /* store
> remainder */
> 
> It's easy enough to see how to expand this to a computer with 39b in each word
> of dvd - just increase the loop count from 35 to 39, increase the shift count 
> in
> the second line from 34 to 38, and define MMASK to be
> 39 bits of 1s.
> 
> In general, it's simplest to implement this sort of multi-precision divide
> unsigned. Simply calculate the sign of the quotient and dividend before 
> starting
> (quo sign = dividend sign XOR divisor sign; rem sign = dividend sign), then 
> take
> the absolute value of dividend and divisor before running the bit-by-bit 
> loop; fix
> up the signs of quotient and remainder when done.
> 
> This assumes that the Ferranti did a precise divide. That's not necessarily 
> the
> case. The IBM 7094 approximated double precision floating divide with a two
> term Taylor-series expansion...
> 
> I hope the available Pegasus documentation provides sufficient detail on how
> divide was actually implemented.
> 
> /Bob
> 
> On 6/10/2016 8:15 PM, simh-requ...@trailing-edge.com wrote:
> > --
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 00:46:02 +0100
> > From: "Dave Wade"<dave.g4...@gmail.com> To:<simh@trailing-
> edge.com>
> > Subject: [Simh] Ferranti Pegasus Simulator
> > Message-ID:<002401d1c372$3fc331e0$bf4995a0$@gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Whilst its not a SIMH simulator, I hope you can help. I want to write
> > an emulator for the Pegasus. The Ferranti Pegasus was (there are none
> > operating at present) a strange beast with two 18-bit instructions per 
> > 39-bit
> word.
> > Generally, it does 39-bit twos complement arithmetic. The multiply
> > results in a 77-bit result which I have no problems implementing.
> >
> > Where I am struggling is with the divide. I need to be able to divide
> > a 77-bit number by a 39-bit number and get a 39 bit quotient and a 39
> > bit remainder. As the compiler I am using only does 64-bit numbers
> > this is proving challenging. Any one got a good article on how to do this?
> >
> > Dave Wade
> > G4UGM
> 
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[Simh] Ferranti Pegasus Simulator

[Dave Wade]

Whilst its not a SIMH simulator, I hope you can help. I want to write an
emulator for the Pegasus. The Ferranti Pegasus was (there are none operating
at present) a strange beast with two 18-bit instructions per 39-bit word.
Generally, it does 39-bit twos complement arithmetic. The multiply results
in a 77-bit result which I have no problems implementing.
 
Where I am struggling is with the divide. I need to be able to divide a
77-bit number by a 39-bit number and get a 39 bit quotient and a 39 bit
remainder. As the compiler I am using only does 64-bit numbers this is
proving challenging. Any one got a good article on how to do this?
 
Dave Wade
G4UGM
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Re: [Simh] System/1

[Dave Wade]

> -Original Message-
> From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Al Kossow
> Sent: 27 May 2016 01:30
> To: simh@trailing-edge.com
> Subject: Re: [Simh] System/1
> 
> 
> 
> On 5/26/16 1:46 PM, Bob Supnik wrote:
> > I didn't know of any surviving software
> 
> look on bitsavers for docs and software, unless I forgot to upload it.
> 

Plenty of documents but no software. 

> 
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Re: [Simh] Way out idea for simh

[Dave Wade]

> -Original Message-
> From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Veit,
> Holger
> Sent: 21 April 2016 08:56
> To: simh@trailing-edge.com
> Subject: Re: [Simh] Way out idea for simh
> 
> I think this is missing the actual problem. If a simh supported machine has
> some kind of (paper/magnetic) tape oder disk device, they are almost always
> physical files on the host system which can be attached/detached by simh
> console commands. 

So if there was an interface so that the emulated computer could issue console 
commands this would IMHO actually be more usefull than access to the file 
system.


> And for some special cases with IBM
> iron, there were native EBCDIC converters.
> 

There are actually a lot of systems that don't use ASCII, IBM1130, IBM1620, 
GE-600 Honeywell H-200 series, IBM1401...

> Holger
> 
Dave

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Re: [Simh] networking support - Windows?

[Dave Wade]

> -Original Message-
> From: Mark Pizzolato [mailto:m...@infocomm.com]
> Sent: 14 March 2016 21:43
> To: Dave Wade <dave.g4...@gmail.com>; 'Rich Alderson'
> <s...@alderson.users.panix.com>; simh@trailing-edge.com
> Subject: RE: [Simh] networking support - Windows?
> 
> On Monday, March 14, 2016 at 2:36 PM, Dave Wade wrote:
> > > >   [in response to a statement that only the PDP-11 and VAX
> > > > simulators
> > have
> > > >networking support]
> > > >
> >
> > Are there any Windows binary's with Network Support enabled? I seem to
> > go round in circles trying to find these...
> 
> Hi Dave,
> 
> Look here: https://github.com/simh/Win32-Development-Binaries
> 
> - Mark

How do you download them, when you click on a file it says "its too big to 
view"

Dave

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Re: [Simh] networking support - Windows?

[Dave Wade]

> >   [in response to a statement that only the PDP-11 and VAX simulators have
> >networking support]
> >

Are there any Windows binary's with Network Support enabled? I seem to go round 
in circles trying to find these...

Dave 

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Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix

[Dave Wade]

> 
> BTW, I think that plugboard programming, other than for some business
> applications with IBM "accounting machines", disappeared rather quickly as
> Von Neumann machines appeared.  That too would be interesting to look
> for.

I am not so sure about that. Older technology often continued in use long after 
it was produced. In the 50's, 60's and 70's they took the "if it ain't broke 
don't fix it" paradigm seriously.

So IBM punch card accounting machines, complete with plug boards were still in 
use in 1974 when I did my "Industrial placement" at a Life Insurance Company. I 
was taught Analog Computer programming, using of course plug boards. Some not 
so early mini computers used "ferrite core rom" where you dropped a ferrite 
core into a coil to set a bit.

> 
>   paul
> 
> 

Dave
G4UGM

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Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix

[Dave Wade]

Whilst “B” only had the “word” as a type it did have, at last in the version I 
used, on the Honeywell L66/GCOS machines, a set of functions to manipulate 
character strings. 
 
Dave
G4UGM
 
From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Clem Cole
Sent: 26 February 2016 02:22
To: Bill Cunningham 
Cc: SIMH 
Subject: Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix
 
 
On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 7:50 PM, Bill Cunningham  > wrote:
When Ken Thompson coded UNIX it was in assembly.
​Correct...​
 
 
 
The first versions anyway before B/NB/C
​I do not think that is 100% correct.  B and early UNIX sort of come about at 
the same time.   B (and its pseudo model - BCPL) has only one data type (a 
word) and that works because UNIX was originally implemented on a word 
addressed machine.
 
NB/C comes out when the Ken starts moving to the 11 which was byte addressed, 
as opposed to word addresses of it's predecessors. 
 
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Re: [Simh] Cross Compilers (and memories thereof)

[Dave Wade]

I note someone said MTS hosted several cross assemblers and compilers. Readers 
may be interested to note that a sanitised copy of MTS ready to run on the 
Hercules S390/XA/390 emulator is available for download.

http://archive.michigan-terminal-system.org/mts-d60A

http://www.hercules-390.eu/

Dave Wade
G4UGM

> -Original Message-
> From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of
> Armistead, Jason BIS
> Sent: 23 February 2016 17:32
> To: simh@trailing-edge.com
> Subject: Re: [Simh] Cross Compilers (and memories thereof)
> 
> Let's move this to a new thread subject of its own !
> 
> On Tuesday, 23 February 2016 12:04 PM, Davis Johnson <da...@frizzen.com>
> wrote (under old subject Re: [Simh] Interdata OS/32: hello-world in CAL32) :
> 
> > One that I remember was TI had a 9900 cross assembler written in
> FORTRAN (all caps in those days). It was free to educational institutions.
> > I talked a prof. into requesting it, but the available FORTRAN compiler 
> > didn't
> like it.
> 
> Another now-defunct company, Microtec Research Incorporated (purchased
> by Mentor Graphics in late 1995), definitely had a TI9900 cross assembler
> written in FORTRAN from 1983.  We had the source code under license and
> compiled it under VAX/VMS (complete with CLI switches), and with a few
> custom tweaks, it was largely compatible with SDSMAC that ran on TI's 990
> computer systems (now simulated via Dave Pitts' SIM990).  There was also a
> linker/loader that produced Tektronix HEX output (similar to TI's SDSLNK) as
> the final executable.  I was able to modify the code enough to get it to
> compile under OpenWatcom's Fortran 77 on Windows XP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Simh] Compatibility you can use Was: VAX/VMS

[Dave Wade]

> >
> > You can't seriously mean that you think that a 32-bit application and
> > a 64-bit application would be expected to be compatible with each other?
> > I would expect the 32-bit code to work in 32-bit mode, but having it
> > work if you are in 64-bit mode is a ridiculous expectation.
> 
> Really? It works fine on IBM's z/OS.
> 
> It seems ridiculous to me that you think it shouldn't. This is what I have 
> been
> saying. IBM moved from 24 bit to 31 bit to 64 bit and everything still works.
> No expanded footprint, no duplicate libraries, no problem.
> 

That’s not (quite) true. As I said before problem state code works fine. 
Anything that uses supervisor mode will likely fail. 

It took IBM a lot of work, microcode (SIE instruction) and a new Hypervisor to 
get from MVS/SP to MVS/XA.
I am told VM/XA only exits because they needed it to debug MVS/XA.

There is much more I info about IBM and especially VM's history on Melinda 
Varian's home page:-

http://www.leeandmelindavarian.com/Melinda/

and as for backwards compatibility the book "The soul of a new machine"

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Soul-Machine-Modern-Library/dp/0679602615 

has some interesting observations about building a new machine...

Dave
G4UGM

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Re: [Simh] VAX/VMS

[Dave Wade]

> -Original Message-
> From: Rhialto [mailto:rhia...@falu.nl]
> Sent: 16 February 2016 19:58
> To: Clem Cole <cl...@ccc.com>
> Cc: Dave Wade <dave.g4...@gmail.com>; SIMH <simh@trailing-edge.com>
> Subject: Re: [Simh] VAX/VMS
> 
> On Tue 16 Feb 2016 at 08:58:11 -0500, Clem Cole wrote:
> > Dave be careful --   S/360 Model 67 has VM in the late 1960's - TSS and
> > it's brother MTS, both rely on it.   The 67 is a Model 65 with a  Data
> > Address Translation unit (DAT box) - is supplied by a 8 x 32 bit TLB
> > which is in a cabinet that t'ed off the main CPU and is about the same
> > size en entire Vax 780 which would follow 10 years later.
> 
> Note that I have rescued at some point in the past an IBM patent (it was
the
> UK version) of a computer with microcode, and maybe Virtual Memory too.
> Although they didn't call it that I think. After reading, it described
something

Perhaps relocation. Allows code to run from any start address. Also storage
keys which allow memory to be protected. 
Virtual Memory was first patented by Manchester University and implemented
in Atlas. I believe IBM later acquired this patent.

There are many later patents for virtual memory improvements.

> remarkably like the S/360. It lists the full microcode and has extensive
> hardware schematics.
> 
> The patent number is 1,108,800. Inventors: Gene Myron Amdahl et al.
> USA patent application number 357372, 6 April 1964. The issued patent
> number is US003400371.
> 

I believe that Amdahl (as a company) also came up with the patent for a
control processor
... so IBM paid them for every mainframe with a control processor, and
Amdahl paid IBM for the Virtual Memory Patents...

> -Olaf.
> --
> ___ Olaf 'Rhialto' Seibert  -- The Doctor: No, 'eureka' is Greek for
> \X/ rhialto/at/xs4all.nl-- 'this bath is too hot.'

Dave
G4UGM

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Re: [Simh] VAX/VMS

[Dave Wade]

> -Original Message-
> From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Wilm
> Boerhout
> Sent: 16 February 2016 11:58
> To: simh@trailing-edge.com
> Subject: Re: [Simh] VAX/VMS
> 
> Johnny Billquist schreef op 16-2-2016 om 12:49:
> >
> > No, it is not. Talk to IBM about S/360... :-) And there are some VAXen

S/360 compatibility is only forward, and only to a certain point. S/360 and 
S/370 are both 24-bit addressing and fairly compatible, but S/370 (Mostly) has 
Virtual Memory as standard. 

Then came the "great divide" S/370XA. XA mode has 31-bit addressing and 
different I/O instructions. Some of the XA boxes will work is S/370 mode, but 
many won't.

More recently IBM moved to 64-bit hardware. Again some will boot in 31-bit mode 
but more recent boxes need a 64-bit OS.

So the earliest incarnations of "OS", which were I guess "MFT" which is 
basically a fixed number of partitions will run on later machines until you get 
to systems which will only run in 31bit mode. (XA Mode).  

OS/VS2 and its siblings MVS (This is the free version), MVS/SP (The paid for 
version) will only run on S/370 or later, not on 360, as they need Virtual 
Memory and it stops working at the same point as MFT when 31 bit only machines 
appear. There are also issues of Virtual Memory Page size which may stop MVS 
(the free version working) working on some hardware (there are patches to work 
round this).

You also have issues over disk (DASD in IBM speak) support. So whilst MFT was 
written for a 1996 S/360 it would in theory run on an P390E from 1996 so 30 
years of computability. However, it would need older disks, which the P/390E 
cannot support.

Of course these changes are really only to do with programs that run in 
supervisor state. User mode programs generally will run unchanged from 1966 
through to the present day, and the latest zOS a descendant of MVS will still 
run 24-bit applications.  I am pretty sure that until a few years many 
commercial sites, so mostly Cobol, still used the older "free" Fortran-66 
compiler for the odd Fortran job.

> > on which V7.3 will definitely not run. How about rtVAX for example.
> >
> I stand corrected. Please note that I had a marketing job once. It sticks...

... I also believe that some of the in-compatibility in IBM kit is to drive the 
hardware->software->Hardware->Software upgrade chain and keep the dollars 
rolling in...

Dave G4UGM 




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Re: [Simh] OSs with accessible documentation

[Dave Wade]

> -Original Message-
> From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Paul
> Koning
> Sent: 06 February 2016 19:01
> To: Timothe Litt 
> Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com
> Subject: Re: [Simh] OSs with accessible documentation
> 
> 
> > On Feb 5, 2016, at 6:10 PM, Timothe Litt  wrote:
> >
> > Some of the PDFs on bitsavers are searchable.  It would be a good
> > project to OCR the rest into searchable pdfs - as that also means that
> > the text can be extracted.   OCR is getting good enough (finally) that
> > it's feasible.  I'm sure that they'd be accepted back into bitsavers
> > - searchable is good for everyone.
> 
> Some disapprove of OCR for reasons I don't really understand.

It depends how you build the PDF. If you replace the images with the OCR's 
text, which seems to be the default, then you introduce errors.
If you leave the images in place and put text behind the images I can't see 
what the problem is,


> 
> A problem with OCR is that it's hard to find a good one.  I dabbled with an
> OCR plugin that Adobe once offered (free, and worth about that).  I also
> once tried an open source OCR, which was vastly inferior still.
> 

> But commercial OCR programs exist that do a decent job, especially if the
> scanned material is clean as is the case for much of what is on Bitsavers.  I 
> use
> Abbyy FineReader which I rather like, but I expect there are other good ones
> out there too.
> 

I also use a copy of Abbey Fine Reader PRO I got from a Magazine cover disk. It 
seems to work well, and can be tweaked..

> One key point is that you typically need to spend some time "training" the
> program on the particular type of material -- typeface etc. -- that you're
> working with.  The default settings are rarely adequate.
> 

Fine Reader Pro is OK if the scans are good. My new scanner is quicker and 
produces better scans. It also has a sheet feeder.

>   paul
> 
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Dave
G4UGM

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Re: [Simh] SIMH internals documentation?

[Dave Wade]

I last built it under vs2005 and it worked fine, not tried recently. If I
get time I'll have a look tonight. (note I am in the UK)

Dave
G4UGM

On 8 May 2011 23:12, Richard legal...@xmission.com wrote:


In article C099F659EBBF4EFE99657CB5D581DD46@EMACHINE,

Dave dave.g4...@gmail.com writes:

 The 1130 simulator has a GUI on Windows. Its in the pac...
When I add GUI_SUPPORT to the vcproj that I made for VS2008, all I get
is a console window and a tiny window with japanese text in the title bar.

When I try to use that nmake makefile, it doesn't build.

-- 
The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
http://legalizeadul...
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