Re: [Simh] Intel's PL/M-86, ASM86 and iAPX-86 Utilities source code

[Gregg Levine]

Hello!
And I remember trying out an extension to iRMX-86 which would work
with MS Windows 3.11. (Or Windows 3.0) It was an interesting idea, but
I never got it to go anywhere.

It would be interesting to track down the whole business.
-
Gregg C Levine gregg.drw...@gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."


On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Quentin North  wrote:
> I remember using iRMX-86 which was a realtime os environment and from memory
> had a ucsd like menu based user interface along with PLM-86 as the main
> programming language. We used it for building flight simulator visual
> systems.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 22 Feb 2016, at 15:31, Armistead, Jason BIS 
> wrote:
>
> Sorry for this off-topic posting, but with all the recent talk about Intel’s
> history of x86 development, I was wondering whether there are any “Intel
> connected” people around here who might know what happened to the source
> code for Intel’s PL/M-86, ASM86 and iAPX-86 Utilities (LINK86, LOC86, LIB86,
> CREF86 and OH86).  The manuals for many of these are on Bitsavers.
>
> I have used both the DOS-hosted and VAX/VMS hosted versions of these tools,
> but when Y2K was approaching I reached out to Intel to see if we could
> obtain the source code under some sort of license (given that these products
> weren’t being sold anymore) that would allow us to modify it for Y2K just to
> tidy up the generated compiler listing files, linker map files, etc., which
> were the only real place dates and times were used.  The reply I got from
> Intel was basically stating that this was “lost” and no-one knew what became
> of it.  And now, with the switch to x64, Windows 7.x and later Windows
> incarnations no longer support running the old 16-bit DOS executables in a
> 64-bit environment, other than resorting to virtually hosted DOS using
> DOSbox, VirtualBox or similar.
>
> PL/M-86 was never (to my knowledge) used to build a widely-used operating
> system in the way its predecessor PL/M-80 was used to build the early CP/M
> 1.x and 2.0, so it never quite got as much attention as  “piece of computing
> history”.
>
> We also used PL/M-80 under ISIS-II on Intel’s iPDS and MDS-80 development
> workstations, PL/M-80 under iSIM85 ISIS-II emulator on DOS/Windows
> 16/32-bit, as well as PL/M-51 under DOS/Windows 16/32-bit.  There were also
> PL/M-286 and PL/M-386 varieties, and possibly PL/M-48 (?) though I never
> personally used them.
>
> Interestingly, I just discovered that there was a PL/M-VAX version (see
> http://www.cpm.z80.de/source.html ) that was written in Fortran and emits
> VAX instructions.  From looking at that source it looks like that was
> something done by National Energy Software Center at the Argonne National
> Laboratory using Intel code from 1981 as a starting point.
>
> I probably should have thought of asking on the SIMH e-mail list years ago !
> Perhaps someone on this list has connections at Intel (or used to work
> there) and maybe this source code really does exist in either the corporate
> archives or in some private or museum collection.
>
> Cheers
> Jason A.
>
>
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Re: [Simh] Intel's PL/M-86, ASM86 and iAPX-86 Utilities source code

[Armistead, Jason BIS]

The PL/M compiler for CP/M was for 8080/8085/Z80 target, i.e. PL/M-80.

Intel did a lot of work to adapt PL/M for iAPX-86 processors 
(8086/8088/80186/80188 variants) and added support for the segmented memory 
architecture amongst other changes.  The last DOS version I had was V3.4 from 
1987.  There was a UDI shim that mapped Intel's own style of I/O calls to the 
underlying DOS equivalents.

On the VAX/VMS side, we also had Intel's PL/M-86 V3.4 from circa 1989 - that's 
when we got the MicroVAX 2000 that it was hosted on.  I learned to love loading 
MicroVMS 4.5B from a set of 50-ish floppy disks onto the RD54 system disk, and 
then installing the Intel tools from TK50 tapes.

When we switched from VAX to Alphas running OpenVMS 6.2-1H3 in the late 1990s, 
we simply DECmigrated the Intel tools and the translated EXEs ran perfectly 
fine.  Thanks to DEC for solving that problem for us !


On Mon, Feb 22, 2016, Kevin Handy khandy2...@gmail.com wrote:

> A deeper look at the site "http://www.cpm.z80.de/; shows other PL/M sources, 
> such as a "VAX PL/M", ans a PL/M to C translator.

> The "Unofficial CP/M web site" has a PL/M compiler. I don't know if it's 
> close to anything you're looking for.  it'S  listed with the following 
> description
> Here is the source to the Intel PLM compiler. It is written in Fortran (66), 
> and is supposed to be pretty clean.
> It compiles correctly with gcc's g77 on Linux. However, it is not the version 
> required to compile CP/M 2.2 or 3.0. It works well, but lacks support for 
> external definitions and some PLM constructs, as required by the DR source. 

On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 9:04 AM, Clem Cole  wrote:
below

On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 10:31 AM, Armistead, Jason BIS 
 wrote:
Sorry for this off-topic posting, but with all the recent talk about Intel’s 
history of x86 development, I was wondering whether there are any “Intel 
connected” people around here who might know what happened to the source code 
for Intel’s PL/M-86, ASM86 and iAPX-86 Utilities (LINK86, LOC86, LIB86, CREF86 
and OH86).  The manuals for many of these are on Bitsavers.
​I've wondered the same.​


 
 
 
PL/M-86 was never (to my knowledge)
​I thought Seattle Computer ​products used it to write some of DOS-86, which 
they later sold to Gates (which became DOS).  


 

 
We also used PL/M-80 under ISIS-II on Intel’s iPDS and MDS-80 development 
workstations, PL/M-80 under iSIM85 ISIS-II emulator on DOS/Windows 16/32-bit, 
as well as PL/M-51 under DOS/Windows 16/32-bit.  There were also PL/M-286 and 
PL/M-386 varieties, and possibly PL/M-48 (?) though I never personally used 
them.
I believe that all of the Intel tools were in FTN in those days - the 
assembler, tools and PL/x.
I once had some of them I looked a while ago, but I have long lost track of the 
sources.​


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Re: [Simh] Intel's PL/M-86, ASM86 and iAPX-86 Utilities source code

[Quentin North]

I remember using iRMX-86 which was a realtime os environment and from memory 
had a ucsd like menu based user interface along with PLM-86 as the main 
programming language. We used it for building flight simulator visual systems. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 22 Feb 2016, at 15:31, Armistead, Jason BIS  
> wrote:
> 
> Sorry for this off-topic posting, but with all the recent talk about Intel’s 
> history of x86 development, I was wondering whether there are any “Intel 
> connected” people around here who might know what happened to the source code 
> for Intel’s PL/M-86, ASM86 and iAPX-86 Utilities (LINK86, LOC86, LIB86, 
> CREF86 and OH86).  The manuals for many of these are on Bitsavers.
>  
> I have used both the DOS-hosted and VAX/VMS hosted versions of these tools, 
> but when Y2K was approaching I reached out to Intel to see if we could obtain 
> the source code under some sort of license (given that these products weren’t 
> being sold anymore) that would allow us to modify it for Y2K just to tidy up 
> the generated compiler listing files, linker map files, etc., which were the 
> only real place dates and times were used.  The reply I got from Intel was 
> basically stating that this was “lost” and no-one knew what became of it.  
> And now, with the switch to x64, Windows 7.x and later Windows incarnations 
> no longer support running the old 16-bit DOS executables in a 64-bit 
> environment, other than resorting to virtually hosted DOS using DOSbox, 
> VirtualBox or similar.
>  
> PL/M-86 was never (to my knowledge) used to build a widely-used operating 
> system in the way its predecessor PL/M-80 was used to build the early CP/M 
> 1.x and 2.0, so it never quite got as much attention as  “piece of computing 
> history”.
>  
> We also used PL/M-80 under ISIS-II on Intel’s iPDS and MDS-80 development 
> workstations, PL/M-80 under iSIM85 ISIS-II emulator on DOS/Windows 16/32-bit, 
> as well as PL/M-51 under DOS/Windows 16/32-bit.  There were also PL/M-286 and 
> PL/M-386 varieties, and possibly PL/M-48 (?) though I never personally used 
> them.
>  
> Interestingly, I just discovered that there was a PL/M-VAX version (see 
> http://www.cpm.z80.de/source.html ) that was written in Fortran and emits VAX 
> instructions.  From looking at that source it looks like that was something 
> done by National Energy Software Center at the Argonne National Laboratory 
> using Intel code from 1981 as a starting point.
>  
> I probably should have thought of asking on the SIMH e-mail list years ago !  
> Perhaps someone on this list has connections at Intel (or used to work there) 
> and maybe this source code really does exist in either the corporate archives 
> or in some private or museum collection.
>  
> Cheers
> Jason A.
>  
> ___
> Simh mailing list
> Simh@trailing-edge.com
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Re: [Simh] Intel's PL/M-86, ASM86 and iAPX-86 Utilities source code

[Kevin Handy]

A deeper look at the site "http://www.cpm.z80.de/; shows other PL/M
sources, such as a "VAX PL/M", ans a PL/M to C translator.

On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 10:42 AM, Kevin Handy  wrote:

> The "Unofficial CP/M web site" has a PL/M compiler. I don't know if it's
> close to anything you're looking for.  it'S  listed with the following
> description
>
> Here is the source to the Intel PLM compiler. It is written in Fortran
> (66), and is supposed to be pretty clean.
> It compiles correctly with gcc's g77 on Linux. However, it is not the
> version required to compile CP/M 2.2 or 3.0. It works well, but lacks
> support for external definitions and some PLM constructs, as required by
> the DR source.
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 9:04 AM, Clem Cole  wrote:
>
>> below
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 10:31 AM, Armistead, Jason BIS <
>> jason.armist...@otis.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry for this off-topic posting, but with all the recent talk about
>>> Intel’s history of x86 development, I was wondering whether there are any
>>> “Intel connected” people around here who might know what happened to the
>>> source code for Intel’s PL/M-86, ASM86 and iAPX-86 Utilities (LINK86,
>>> LOC86, LIB86, CREF86 and OH86).  The manuals for many of these are on
>>> Bitsavers.
>>>
>> ​I've wondered the same.​
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> PL/M-86 was never (to my knowledge)
>>>
>> ​I thought Seattle Computer ​products used it to write some of DOS-86,
>> which they later sold to Gates (which became DOS).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We also used PL/M-80 under ISIS-II on Intel’s iPDS and MDS-80
>>> development workstations, PL/M-80 under iSIM85 ISIS-II emulator on
>>> DOS/Windows 16/32-bit, as well as PL/M-51 under DOS/Windows 16/32-bit.
>>> There were also PL/M-286 and PL/M-386 varieties, and possibly PL/M-48 (?)
>>> though I never personally used them.
>>>
>> I believe that all of the Intel tools were in FTN in those days - the
>> assembler, tools and PL/x.
>> I once had some of them I looked a while ago, but I have long lost track
>> of the sources.​
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> Simh@trailing-edge.com
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>>
>
>
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Re: [Simh] Intel's PL/M-86, ASM86 and iAPX-86 Utilities source code

[Kevin Handy]

The "Unofficial CP/M web site" has a PL/M compiler. I don't know if it's
close to anything you're looking for.  it'S  listed with the following
description

Here is the source to the Intel PLM compiler. It is written in Fortran
(66), and is supposed to be pretty clean.
It compiles correctly with gcc's g77 on Linux. However, it is not the
version required to compile CP/M 2.2 or 3.0. It works well, but lacks
support for external definitions and some PLM constructs, as required by
the DR source.


On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 9:04 AM, Clem Cole  wrote:

> below
>
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 10:31 AM, Armistead, Jason BIS <
> jason.armist...@otis.com> wrote:
>
>> Sorry for this off-topic posting, but with all the recent talk about
>> Intel’s history of x86 development, I was wondering whether there are any
>> “Intel connected” people around here who might know what happened to the
>> source code for Intel’s PL/M-86, ASM86 and iAPX-86 Utilities (LINK86,
>> LOC86, LIB86, CREF86 and OH86).  The manuals for many of these are on
>> Bitsavers.
>>
> ​I've wondered the same.​
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> PL/M-86 was never (to my knowledge)
>>
> ​I thought Seattle Computer ​products used it to write some of DOS-86,
> which they later sold to Gates (which became DOS).
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> We also used PL/M-80 under ISIS-II on Intel’s iPDS and MDS-80 development
>> workstations, PL/M-80 under iSIM85 ISIS-II emulator on DOS/Windows
>> 16/32-bit, as well as PL/M-51 under DOS/Windows 16/32-bit.  There were also
>> PL/M-286 and PL/M-386 varieties, and possibly PL/M-48 (?) though I never
>> personally used them.
>>
> I believe that all of the Intel tools were in FTN in those days - the
> assembler, tools and PL/x.
> I once had some of them I looked a while ago, but I have long lost track
> of the sources.​
>
>
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> Simh@trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
>
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[Simh] Intel's PL/M-86, ASM86 and iAPX-86 Utilities source code

[Armistead, Jason BIS]

Sorry for this off-topic posting, but with all the recent talk about Intel's 
history of x86 development, I was wondering whether there are any "Intel 
connected" people around here who might know what happened to the source code 
for Intel's PL/M-86, ASM86 and iAPX-86 Utilities (LINK86, LOC86, LIB86, CREF86 
and OH86).  The manuals for many of these are on Bitsavers.

I have used both the DOS-hosted and VAX/VMS hosted versions of these tools, but 
when Y2K was approaching I reached out to Intel to see if we could obtain the 
source code under some sort of license (given that these products weren't being 
sold anymore) that would allow us to modify it for Y2K just to tidy up the 
generated compiler listing files, linker map files, etc., which were the only 
real place dates and times were used.  The reply I got from Intel was basically 
stating that this was "lost" and no-one knew what became of it.  And now, with 
the switch to x64, Windows 7.x and later Windows incarnations no longer support 
running the old 16-bit DOS executables in a 64-bit environment, other than 
resorting to virtually hosted DOS using DOSbox, VirtualBox or similar.

PL/M-86 was never (to my knowledge) used to build a widely-used operating 
system in the way its predecessor PL/M-80 was used to build the early CP/M 1.x 
and 2.0, so it never quite got as much attention as  "piece of computing 
history".

We also used PL/M-80 under ISIS-II on Intel's iPDS and MDS-80 development 
workstations, PL/M-80 under iSIM85 ISIS-II emulator on DOS/Windows 16/32-bit, 
as well as PL/M-51 under DOS/Windows 16/32-bit.  There were also PL/M-286 and 
PL/M-386 varieties, and possibly PL/M-48 (?) though I never personally used 
them.

Interestingly, I just discovered that there was a PL/M-VAX version (see 
http://www.cpm.z80.de/source.html ) that was written in Fortran and emits VAX 
instructions.  From looking at that source it looks like that was something 
done by National Energy Software Center at the Argonne National Laboratory 
using Intel code from 1981 as a starting point.

I probably should have thought of asking on the SIMH e-mail list years ago !  
Perhaps someone on this list has connections at Intel (or used to work there) 
and maybe this source code really does exist in either the corporate archives 
or in some private or museum collection.

Cheers
Jason A.

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