Re: [Simh] on Android [Was: (no subject)]

[Mark Abene]

You're right, I hadn't used it since updating to Marshmallow a few months
ago. It apparently depends on Better Terminal Emulator, which is
abandonware. Broken on newer androids. Unfortunate.

On Sep 18, 2016 11:05 AM, "Bob Eager"  wrote:

> It doesn't work on later versions of Android. I used to use it, and
> was quite annoyed when it stopped working, with no fix.
>
> (it's actually the terminal app that it needs, that is actually broken)
>
> On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 10:54:38 -0700
> Mark Abene  wrote:
>
> > I guess no one's heard of "SIMH for Android" in the google play store?
> > I've been using it for a few years, but there's no network support.
> >
> > -Mark
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 10:38 PM, Sergii Kolisnyk
> >  wrote:
> > > Hi, all,
> > >
> > > actually, there seems to be another way than NDK:
> > > - compile statically with buildroot uClibc;
> > > - copy, no install support;
> > > - run under ConnectBot.
> > >
> > > Sergii
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Simh mailing list
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> > > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
> > ___
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> > Simh@trailing-edge.com
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Re: [Simh] on Android [Was: (no subject)]

[Bob Eager]

It doesn't work on later versions of Android. I used to use it, and
was quite annoyed when it stopped working, with no fix.

(it's actually the terminal app that it needs, that is actually broken)

On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 10:54:38 -0700
Mark Abene  wrote:

> I guess no one's heard of "SIMH for Android" in the google play store?
> I've been using it for a few years, but there's no network support.
> 
> -Mark
> 
> 
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 10:38 PM, Sergii Kolisnyk
>  wrote:
> > Hi, all,
> >
> > actually, there seems to be another way than NDK:
> > - compile statically with buildroot uClibc;
> > - copy, no install support;
> > - run under ConnectBot.
> >
> > Sergii
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Simh mailing list
> > Simh@trailing-edge.com
> > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh  
> ___
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Re: [Simh] on Android [Was: (no subject)]

[Mark Abene]

I guess no one's heard of "SIMH for Android" in the google play store?
I've been using it for a few years, but there's no network support.

-Mark


On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 10:38 PM, Sergii Kolisnyk  wrote:
> Hi, all,
>
> actually, there seems to be another way than NDK:
> - compile statically with buildroot uClibc;
> - copy, no install support;
> - run under ConnectBot.
>
> Sergii
>
>
> ___
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> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
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Re: [Simh] on Android [Was: (no subject)]

[Sergii Kolisnyk]

Hi, all,

actually, there seems to be another way than NDK:
- compile statically with buildroot uClibc;
- copy, no install support;
- run under ConnectBot.

Sergii
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Re: [Simh] on Android [Was: (no subject)]

[Henry Bent]

When I was working with Android 4 it definitely did not provide pcap of any
sort, neither the header nor the library.  I decided it was easiest to
compile libpcap as a static library and link it into the binaries.

The Android NDK only provides very basic libraries - static versions of
libc, libm, libz, and libstdc++.  What any particular device has available
at runtime is another question entirely.

-Henry

On 16 September 2016 at 19:15, Mark Pizzolato  wrote:

> Good point.  Building with pcap network support only requires pcap.h
> visible at simulator build time.  Libpcap is dynamically loaded at
> runtime.  Is libpcap.so usually available in the typical Android runtime
> environment?
>
> Additionally, Linux pcap networking requires running as root.  I guess
> that might be possible on a smart TV, but probably not common...
>
> On Sep 16, 2016 2:54 PM, Sergii Kolisnyk  wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> most smart TV use Android,
> and all of them have wired Ethernet port.
>
> Sergii
> On Sep 12, 2016 9:13 PM, "Mark Pizzolato"  wrote:
>
> On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 9:38 AM, Pontus Pihlgren wrote:
> > It's a good start :)
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 10:55:07AM -0400, Henry Bent wrote:
> > > I did a proof of concept build a while back using the Android NDK. It
> > > required manually compiling libpcap for networking support but as I
> recall
> > > it was fully functional. I was able to bring up 4.2BSD on a vax780 but
> disk
> > > access was painfully slow. I was running as root so I have no idea how
> well
> > > it would run on a non-rooted phone. So it's certainly possible but
> there
> > > are bugs to be worked out.
>
> I think that trying to get libpcap included would be more effort than it
> is worth since essentially all Android devices don't have a wired network
> connection
> and thus would be left trying to use libpcap over WiFi.  In general, this
> isn't something that works too well.
>
> - Mark
>
> ___
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>
>
>
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Re: [Simh] on Android [Was: (no subject)]

[Henry Bent]

When I did my builds it was long enough ago that I don't recall there being
any networking support besides libpcap, which I agree is not optimal. Is
slirp networking expected to work on Android?

In any case, I have successfully built a few simulators that don't require
networking and I'm currently working on the ones that do.  I'll post
binaries in a day or two once I have functional builds for all of the
simulators.

-Henry

On Sep 16, 2016 2:11 PM, "Mark Pizzolato"  wrote:

> The existing sim_ether already supports a tunneling protocol by
> encapsulating Ethernet frames in UDP packets.  Such a connection can then
> talk to one of itself or to an instance of Johnny's bridge where it can be
> presented to s remote LAN.
>
> On Sep 16, 2016 11:02 AM, "Phil Budne"  wrote:
>
>> A way to do networking would be to implement a tunneling protocol in
>> simh_ether and hand packets off to a proxy that put them on the wire.
>> Cisco GRE might be a suitable protocol for Ethernet over IP.
>>
>> If all you care about is IP, then the protocol could be OpenVPN, and
>> other protocols could be detected by "ether type", SAP or SNAP and
>> handed off to other encapulation protocols.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
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Re: [Simh] on Android [Was: (no subject)]

[Mark Pizzolato]

Good point.  Building with pcap network support only requires pcap.h visible at 
simulator build time.  Libpcap is dynamically loaded at runtime.  Is libpcap.so 
usually available in the typical Android runtime environment?

Additionally, Linux pcap networking requires running as root.  I guess that 
might be possible on a smart TV, but probably not common...

On Sep 16, 2016 2:54 PM, Sergii Kolisnyk  wrote:

Hi all,

most smart TV use Android,
and all of them have wired Ethernet port.

Sergii

On Sep 12, 2016 9:13 PM, "Mark Pizzolato" 
> wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 9:38 AM, Pontus Pihlgren wrote:
> It's a good start :)
>
> On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 10:55:07AM -0400, Henry Bent wrote:
> > I did a proof of concept build a while back using the Android NDK. It
> > required manually compiling libpcap for networking support but as I recall
> > it was fully functional. I was able to bring up 4.2BSD on a vax780 but disk
> > access was painfully slow. I was running as root so I have no idea how well
> > it would run on a non-rooted phone. So it's certainly possible but there
> > are bugs to be worked out.

I think that trying to get libpcap included would be more effort than it
is worth since essentially all Android devices don't have a wired network 
connection
and thus would be left trying to use libpcap over WiFi.  In general, this isn't 
something that works too well.

- Mark

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Re: [Simh] on Android [Was: (no subject)]

[Sergii Kolisnyk]

Hi all,

most smart TV use Android,
and all of them have wired Ethernet port.

Sergii
On Sep 12, 2016 9:13 PM, "Mark Pizzolato"  wrote:

> On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 9:38 AM, Pontus Pihlgren wrote:
> > It's a good start :)
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 10:55:07AM -0400, Henry Bent wrote:
> > > I did a proof of concept build a while back using the Android NDK. It
> > > required manually compiling libpcap for networking support but as I
> recall
> > > it was fully functional. I was able to bring up 4.2BSD on a vax780 but
> disk
> > > access was painfully slow. I was running as root so I have no idea how
> well
> > > it would run on a non-rooted phone. So it's certainly possible but
> there
> > > are bugs to be worked out.
>
> I think that trying to get libpcap included would be more effort than it
> is worth since essentially all Android devices don't have a wired network
> connection
> and thus would be left trying to use libpcap over WiFi.  In general, this
> isn't something that works too well.
>
> - Mark
>
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Re: [Simh] on Android [Was: (no subject)]

[Mark Pizzolato]

The existing sim_ether already supports a tunneling protocol by
encapsulating Ethernet frames in UDP packets.  Such a connection can then
talk to one of itself or to an instance of Johnny's bridge where it can be
presented to s remote LAN.

On Sep 16, 2016 11:02 AM, "Phil Budne"  wrote:

> A way to do networking would be to implement a tunneling protocol in
> simh_ether and hand packets off to a proxy that put them on the wire.
> Cisco GRE might be a suitable protocol for Ethernet over IP.
>
> If all you care about is IP, then the protocol could be OpenVPN, and
> other protocols could be detected by "ether type", SAP or SNAP and
> handed off to other encapulation protocols.
>
> Phil
>
>
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Re: [Simh] on Android [Was: (no subject)]

[Phil Budne]

A way to do networking would be to implement a tunneling protocol in
simh_ether and hand packets off to a proxy that put them on the wire.
Cisco GRE might be a suitable protocol for Ethernet over IP.

If all you care about is IP, then the protocol could be OpenVPN, and
other protocols could be detected by "ether type", SAP or SNAP and
handed off to other encapulation protocols.

Phil
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Re: [Simh] on Android [Was: (no subject)]

[Gene Irwin]

I would agree about libpcap.

On Mon, Sep 12, 2016, 11:13 AM Mark Pizzolato  wrote:

> On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 9:38 AM, Pontus Pihlgren wrote:
> > It's a good start :)
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 10:55:07AM -0400, Henry Bent wrote:
> > > I did a proof of concept build a while back using the Android NDK. It
> > > required manually compiling libpcap for networking support but as I
> recall
> > > it was fully functional. I was able to bring up 4.2BSD on a vax780 but
> disk
> > > access was painfully slow. I was running as root so I have no idea how
> well
> > > it would run on a non-rooted phone. So it's certainly possible but
> there
> > > are bugs to be worked out.
>
> I think that trying to get libpcap included would be more effort than it
> is worth since essentially all Android devices don't have a wired network
> connection
> and thus would be left trying to use libpcap over WiFi.  In general, this
> isn't something that works too well.
>
> - Mark
>
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Re: [Simh] on Android [Was: (no subject)]

[Mark Pizzolato]

On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 9:38 AM, Pontus Pihlgren wrote:
> It's a good start :)
> 
> On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 10:55:07AM -0400, Henry Bent wrote:
> > I did a proof of concept build a while back using the Android NDK. It
> > required manually compiling libpcap for networking support but as I recall
> > it was fully functional. I was able to bring up 4.2BSD on a vax780 but disk
> > access was painfully slow. I was running as root so I have no idea how well
> > it would run on a non-rooted phone. So it's certainly possible but there
> > are bugs to be worked out.

I think that trying to get libpcap included would be more effort than it 
is worth since essentially all Android devices don't have a wired network 
connection 
and thus would be left trying to use libpcap over WiFi.  In general, this isn't 
something that works too well.

- Mark

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Re: [Simh] on Android [Was: (no subject)]

[Pontus Pihlgren]

It's a good start :)

On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 10:55:07AM -0400, Henry Bent wrote:
> I did a proof of concept build a while back using the Android NDK. It
> required manually compiling libpcap for networking support but as I recall
> it was fully functional. I was able to bring up 4.2BSD on a vax780 but disk
> access was painfully slow. I was running as root so I have no idea how well
> it would run on a non-rooted phone. So it's certainly possible but there
> are bugs to be worked out.
> 
> -Henry
> 
> On Sep 10, 2016 6:33 AM, "Pontus Pihlgren"  wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, Sep 09, 2016 at 09:19:15AM -0700, Mark Pizzolato wrote:
> > >
> > > A few years back, I added Android build support to the simh
> > > makefile in the github master branch.  I haven't tried building for
> > > Android since shortly after that time.  I'd appreciate any feedback
> > > from anyone who tries now.
> > >
> >
> > I do Android develpoment for a living. Not so much apps and guis but things
> > behind the scenes.
> >
> > I considered doing a (free) simh port as an exercise. If there is
> > significant interrest it might spur me to actually do it.
> >
> > /P
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Re: [Simh] on Android [Was: (no subject)]

[Henry Bent]

I did a proof of concept build a while back using the Android NDK. It
required manually compiling libpcap for networking support but as I recall
it was fully functional. I was able to bring up 4.2BSD on a vax780 but disk
access was painfully slow. I was running as root so I have no idea how well
it would run on a non-rooted phone. So it's certainly possible but there
are bugs to be worked out.

-Henry

On Sep 10, 2016 6:33 AM, "Pontus Pihlgren"  wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 09, 2016 at 09:19:15AM -0700, Mark Pizzolato wrote:
> >
> > A few years back, I added Android build support to the simh
> > makefile in the github master branch.  I haven't tried building for
> > Android since shortly after that time.  I'd appreciate any feedback
> > from anyone who tries now.
> >
>
> I do Android develpoment for a living. Not so much apps and guis but things
> behind the scenes.
>
> I considered doing a (free) simh port as an exercise. If there is
> significant interrest it might spur me to actually do it.
>
> /P
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Re: [Simh] on Android [Was: (no subject)]

[Gene Irwin]

I understand but I have never developed anything for android.  Only
considered it.

On Mon, Sep 12, 2016, 7:36 AM Bob Eager  wrote:

> So would I.
>
> On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 13:36:17 +
> Gene Irwin  wrote:
>
> > I would certainly be interested :D
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 10, 2016, 3:33 AM Pontus Pihlgren 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, Sep 09, 2016 at 09:19:15AM -0700, Mark Pizzolato wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A few years back, I added Android build support to the simh
> > > > makefile in the github master branch.  I haven't tried building
> > > > for Android since shortly after that time.  I'd appreciate any
> > > > feedback from anyone who tries now.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I do Android develpoment for a living. Not so much apps and guis
> > > but things behind the scenes.
> > >
> > > I considered doing a (free) simh port as an exercise. If there is
> > > significant interrest it might spur me to actually do it.
> > >
> > > /P
> > > ___
> > > Simh mailing list
> > > Simh@trailing-edge.com
> > > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
>
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Re: [Simh] on Android [Was: (no subject)]

[Bob Eager]

So would I.

On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 13:36:17 +
Gene Irwin  wrote:

> I would certainly be interested :D
> 
> On Sat, Sep 10, 2016, 3:33 AM Pontus Pihlgren 
> wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, Sep 09, 2016 at 09:19:15AM -0700, Mark Pizzolato wrote:
> > >
> > > A few years back, I added Android build support to the simh
> > > makefile in the github master branch.  I haven't tried building
> > > for Android since shortly after that time.  I'd appreciate any
> > > feedback from anyone who tries now.
> > >
> >
> > I do Android develpoment for a living. Not so much apps and guis
> > but things behind the scenes.
> >
> > I considered doing a (free) simh port as an exercise. If there is
> > significant interrest it might spur me to actually do it.
> >
> > /P
> > ___
> > Simh mailing list
> > Simh@trailing-edge.com
> > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

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Re: [Simh] on Android [Was: (no subject)]

[Gene Irwin]

I would certainly be interested :D

On Sat, Sep 10, 2016, 3:33 AM Pontus Pihlgren  wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 09, 2016 at 09:19:15AM -0700, Mark Pizzolato wrote:
> >
> > A few years back, I added Android build support to the simh
> > makefile in the github master branch.  I haven't tried building for
> > Android since shortly after that time.  I'd appreciate any feedback
> > from anyone who tries now.
> >
>
> I do Android develpoment for a living. Not so much apps and guis but things
> behind the scenes.
>
> I considered doing a (free) simh port as an exercise. If there is
> significant interrest it might spur me to actually do it.
>
> /P
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