[SLUG] Tape Drive Reset
I do regular backups to tape on an internal IDE drive using taper (vers 6.9b). Although it usually behaves OK, every now and then it spits the dummy. Unfortunately when this happens, the tape drive decides it's busy (any attempts to access it with mt, for example, respond with Device or resource busy) and taper does into an uninterruptable sleep (presumably because the tape drive is no longer responding). Rebooting cures everything, but is pretty brutal. Does anyone know how to reset the tape drive without rebooting? Regards, Sean. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] Tape Drive Reset
Just to clarify--that's an internal IDE _tape_ drive! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Sean Carmody Sent: Monday, 30 April 2001 4:17 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [SLUG] Tape Drive Reset I do regular backups to tape on an internal IDE drive using taper (vers 6.9b). Although it usually behaves OK, every now and then it spits the dummy. Unfortunately when this happens, the tape drive decides it's busy (any attempts to access it with mt, for example, respond with Device or resource busy) and taper does into an uninterruptable sleep (presumably because the tape drive is no longer responding). Rebooting cures everything, but is pretty brutal. Does anyone know how to reset the tape drive without rebooting? Regards, Sean. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Tape Drive Reset
Sean Carmody wrote: I do regular backups to tape on an internal IDE drive using taper (vers 6.9b). Although it usually behaves OK, every now and then it spits the dummy. Unfortunately when this happens, the tape drive decides it's busy (any attempts to access it with mt, for example, respond with Device or resource busy) and taper does into an uninterruptable sleep (presumably because the tape drive is no longer responding). Rebooting cures everything, but is pretty brutal. Does anyone know how to reset the tape drive without rebooting? I used to use Taper with my Colorado IDE drive. Ditch it. It never did work properly for me either. It needs taper to restore as well. Mike -- Michael Lake University of Technology, Sydney Email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph: 02 9514 1724 Fx: 02 9514 1628 URL: http://www.science.uts.edu.au/~michael-lake/ Linux enthusiast, active caver and interested in anything technical. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Tape Drive Reset
On Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 04:41:56PM +1000, Michael Lake wrote: Sean Carmody wrote: happens, the tape drive decides it's busy (any attempts to access it with mt, for example, respond with Device or resource busy) and taper does into an uninterruptable I used to use Taper with my Colorado IDE drive. Ditch it. Taper may have its problems (I've never used it), but it's not the cause of Sean's problem. I have the same problem at home with a SCSI tape drive using tar. After upgrading my machine at work to RH7.0, I found this in /etc/rc.d/rc.sysint: # If a SCSI tape has been detected, load the st module unconditionally # since many SCSI tapes don't deal well with st being loaded and unloaded if [ -f /proc/scsi/scsi ] grep -q 'Type: Sequential-Access' /proc/scsi/scsi 2/dev/null ; then if grep -qv ' 9 st' /proc/devices ; then if [ -n $USEMODULES ] ; then # Try to load the module. If it fails, ignore it... insmod -p st /dev/null 21 modprobe st /dev/null 21 fi fi fi So I'm going to try having the st module loaded permanently and see if that makes a difference. Your tape drive may suffer from a similar problem, so try loading the appropriate module(s) at boot time and leaving them loaded. Cheers, John -- whois [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Bandwidth monitor for Optus@home
maybe what about ipac package? search for it on freshmeat.net - Original Message - From: James Wilkinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Secret Squirrel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 10:21 AM Subject: Re: [SLUG] Bandwidth monitor for Optus@home This one time, at band camp, Secret Squirrel said: Hello, Shh! Secret Squirrel! I am looking for a bandwidth monitor for my optus@home packet pushing gateway, I would like it to log the data to a file so that I can write programs to analyse it. Search google for MTRG. You mentioned e-smith, I'm not an expert with that distro but something is telling me that MTRG is packaged with e-smith. -- jamesw Always two there are; a Bastard, and a PFY. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] MS goofs?
Found this little gem. Just thought someone might be interested. FOOT-AND-MOUTH BELIEVED TO BE FIRST VIRUS UNABLE TO SPREAD THROUGH MICROSOFT OUTLOOK Researchers Shocked to Finally Find Virus That E-mail App Doesn't Like Atlanta, Ga. (SatireWire.com) - Scientists at the Centers for Disease Control and Symantec's AntiVirus Research Center today confirmed that foot-and-mouth disease cannot be spread by Microsoft's Outlook email application, believed to be the first time the program has ever failed to propagate a major virus. Frankly, we've never heard of a virus that couldn't spread through Microsoft Outlook, so our findings were, to say the least, unexpected, said Clive Sarnow, director of the CDC's infectious disease unit. The study was immediately hailed by British officials, who said it will save millions of pounds and thousands of man hours. Up until now we have, quite naturally, assumed that both foot-and-mouth and mad cow were spread by Microsoft Outlook, said Nick Brown, Britain's Agriculture Minister. By eliminating it, we can focus our resources elsewhere. However, researchers in the Netherlands, where foot-and-mouth has recently appeared, said they are not yet prepared to disqualify Outlook, which has been the progenitor of viruses such as I Love You, Bubbleboy, Anna Kournikova, and Naked Wife, to name but a few. Said Nils Overmars, director of the Molecular Virology Lab at Leiden University: It's not that we don't trust the research, it's just that as scientists, we are trained to be skeptical of any finding that flies in the face of established knowledge. This one flies in the face like a blind drunk sparrow. Executives at Microsoft, meanwhile, were equally skeptical, insisting that Outlook's patented Virus Transfer Protocol (VTP) has proven virtually pervious to any virus. The company, however, will issue a free VTP patch if it turns out the application is not vulnerable to foot-and-mouth. Such an admission would be embarrassing for the software giant, but Symantec virologist Ariel Kologne insisted that no one is more humiliated by the study than she is. Only last week, I had a reporter ask if the foot-and-mouth virus spreads through Microsoft Outlook, and I told him, 'Doesn't everything?' she recalled. Who would've thought? Stay well and happy Heracles -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] Simple Graphics with C
What does it take to draw simple QBASIC style graphics with C under Linux ? Would it be easier to draw graphics in a console or in X Windows ? Personally I'd go for X - there's rather more code and choice of toolkits around. However - and the reason I thought I'd chip in, as I'm not sure it emerged clearly from Crossfire's summary of the possibilities - you need to be prepared to shift your programming mind around a bit. I speak as one who also made the transition from various BASICs(*) and other PC console graphics libraries to windowing systems - X and Windows, in my case. The crucial difference is the switch to event-driven programming. BASIC programs with graphics tend to go something along the lines of: Select graphics mode Draw screen Wait for user to type command Draw modified screen Wait Draw Wait - user gives exit command Exit X programs, on the other hand, are more along the lines of Initialise Create main window Call toolkit event loop Exit Paint event: Draw screen The point here is that your program, rather than being a sequential flow of control, spends its time responding to 'events' at the behest of the windowing system. From a programming point of view, it can feel like you're going from being The General, Lord Of All You Survey, to Private, meekly obeying orders issued from on high. But that's the way it has to be; the windowing system is the one that knows when a window needs to be drawn, not you. Your window may be iconised, off the screen, or entirely hidden by another window; no point in drawning its contents. I've recently been reading up on GTK and Qt, the two main Linux X toolkits, and personally at this stage think Qt is the nicer, but it is C++. But reading an introduction to either, or a Java tutorial, or Jamie's excellent Tcl/Tk suggestion (though I personally don't like Tcl as a language) is the starting point. Jim (*) Atom, BBC, Apple ][ ///(**). Yep, old fart here. (**) Not many people these days know what an Apple /// looked like, let alone programmed one. In the case of the Apple ///, that equally true at the time as well. :-) -- Jim Hague - [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Work), [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Play) Never trust a computer you can't lift or you don't control. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] MS goofs?
On 30-Apr-2001 Heracles wrote: FOOT-AND-MOUTH BELIEVED TO BE FIRST VIRUS UNABLE TO SPREAD THROUGH MICROSOFT OUTLOOK Researchers Shocked to Finally Find Virus That E-mail App Doesn't Like Atlanta, Ga. (SatireWire.com) - Scientists at the Centers for Disease Control and Symantec's AntiVirus Research Center today confirmed that foot-and-mouth disease cannot be spread by Microsoft's Outlook email application, believed to be the first time the program has ever failed to propagate a major virus. Ahha! Next time Outlook propagates a major virus, we can borrow a strategy to contain the outbreak. Slaughter all affected PC software, including on PCs not infected but on the same LAN segment, and all on neighbouring LAN segments as well. Bury the carcasses in landfill where possible, otherwise (and it will take time to organise landfill sites for the staggering volume of cases) douse in fuel and burn. The world's press will report that the entire country is awash with flaming pyres of infected and infectable software, which may bugger the tourist trade in the short term, but it is the only way. Later we can proceed to restock PCs with disease-free software. -- Jim Hague - [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Work), [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Play) Never trust a computer you can't lift or you don't control. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] Linuxfest 19-20 May
Linuxfest will be like codefest but with a new name (Fancy trick) This will be held by Compsoc @ UNSW! This will be a more advanced event than an installfest but don't be scared to come if you are a beginner. Come along, Give a talk or just enjoy the geek++ atmosphere. Code while listening to some great talks to increase your linux and coding knowledge. Keep your ears and eyes open for speakers and let me know if you would like to do a presentation on the day. Entry will be free (bring some $$ for food runs) Location: Seminar Room First Floor CSE Building K17 UNSW Kensington Times: 9am Saturday the 19th May - 5pm Sunday 20th May 2001 What to bring: * Your computer/ laptop * Your kewl linux stuff * Some network cables and hubs and all that jazz. * Lots of V / Caffeine Please email us at address below if you want: 1) More information 2) To volunteer or help out on the day and 3) To let us know if you want to give a presentation or talk on your favourite linux utility at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] See you there, Jaime Hemmett Compsoc President -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] HP NetRAID 1M
This card was recently purchased for a client of mine and some sales guy didn't check it explicity worked on linux. Anyone got a recent version of this card to work with Redhat 6.2 (2.2.19SMP)? I think you have to use the megaraid driver but i don't know if this card is supported. Are there any up to date RAID pages out there all the google ones are old and don't mention HP netRAID cards all. Dave -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] HP NetRAID 1M
quote who=David Kempe I think you have to use the megaraid driver but i don't know if this card is supported. Are there any up to date RAID pages out there all the google ones are old and don't mention HP netRAID cards all. It's just an OEM AMI MegaRAID, so will work fine. [ Off-the-shelf name brand hardware, yet again. ;) ] - Jeff -- No pants is good pants. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] HP NetRAID 1M
quote who=Jeff Waugh It's just an OEM AMI MegaRAID, so will work fine. [ Off-the-shelf name brand hardware, yet again. ;) ] Not quite, I missed the 1M. http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/docs/HOWTO/other-formats/html_single/HP-HOWTO.html#NETRAID Problem: 1.14 isn't in the standard 2.2.19 kernel; only 1.11, and I can't find out if Red Hat includes a backported driver in their RPM. Asking around now. - Jeff -- 100% Pure Slashdot Wisdom: Source code gives a whole new meaning to free software. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] HP NetRAID 1M
quote who=Jeff Waugh I can't find out if Red Hat includes a backported driver in their RPM. Read the source, Luke. No megaraid for you, come back, next kernel! - Jeff -- Perl - The Movie Starring 'Weird' Al Yankovic. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Simple Graphics with CA
Jamie Honan recently suggested looking at this piece of tcl:- Take this example: from http://mini.net/cgi-bin/wikit/1359.html The html may be camouflaging the code: I've removed the tags and changed all the gt; and amp; whatsits into their real identities. If you want to play trains, it's @ http://www.acay.com.au/~nicko/tc/tc_1359.tcl Just go wish tc_1359.tcl and have fun. Nick (PS I know nothing about tcl). -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] OT: 2Br Unit for Share
Hi all, If you are interested, or know anyone who might be, please let me know. 1 professional clean and tidy, non-smoker male or female 20-30, to share with 1 professional male. The Place: Spacious 2 bedroom unit with large combined lounge and dining. Large kitchen, laundry, bathroom, linen cupboard, and balcony. Location - Lane Cove - Near the corner of Epping Road and the Pacific Highway [it is quiet though]. - 2min walk to Lane Cove shops [Supermarket, Cafe's, etc]. - 5min bus trip to Chatswood Station. - 20min Bus trip to Town Hall/QVB. - 30min Bus trip to Epping Station. Details: - Rent is $137pw in addition to bond and expenses [phone, electricity, etc...] - Available Friday the 11th of May. - Can inspect this Saturday, reply to organise. Regards, Andrew -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] 2600 Australia Seminar Series - Saturday May 5th, 2001
You are invited to the 2600 Australia Seminar Series, to be held in Sydney on Saturday, 5th May (the Saturday after the 2600 meeting). Sessions begin at 1pm and run till approximately 5pm. Entry is $10, payable at the door. Speakers this month include: * Satyricon, SCO Openserver and DataFlex * Technion, Linux and migration to the 2.4 kernel, with all new bells and whistles * Shaun, Up close and personal with GDB Also: Hands-on session after the seminars with Mac OS X (10.0.1, Updated from last month). Location: - University of Technology, Building 6 on Harris Street (near Central Station), room 6.4.17 (Building 6, Level 4, Room 17). Open from Midday onwards, seminars begin at 1pm. $10 entry fee, bookings for 5 people not required. (You may like to refer to the map at the following URL. The location of Building 6 is approximately a few millimetres to the right of the letter S in UTS on the map. You might simply like to turn right onto Harris Street from Broadway (walking) and look for the signs: http://www.2600.org.au/sydney-meeting-map.gif ) Additional Notes: - * Although the number of people that attend strongly dictates whether we can cover our costs for the room, we have a number of interstate and local speakers planned for future months, so a strong showing is critical at this one. Guest speakers from Melbourne, Canberra and Brisbane will be flown in on Impulse Airlines, billeted out on the Friday night after the Sydney 2600 meeting. In short, we don't think $10 is an unreasonable charge if this is what we can organise for the May and June sessions (they're already pretty much planned). Capacity for the room we have booked at the present time is 70 people. Larger rooms go up to 95 people but cost quite a bit more. * Multimedia materials from April, 2001 are available at: http://www.2600.org.au/seminars/archive.html * Broadly, the seminars will always be in three parts: an introductory session, an intermediate session (may include hardware pull-apart, demonstration) and an advanced session. For more information about the 2600 Seminar Series, please contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] University students, software developers, etc working on innovative projects or researching other topics wishing to speak for approx 40-60 minutes are invited to contact us regarding future sessions at the same address. Please feel free to forward this invitation to friends, colleagues that may be interested in these or future 2600 Australia Seminar Series events. --- Grant Bayley [EMAIL PROTECTED] -IT Manager @ FNL Communications (www.fnl.com.au) -Admin @ AusMac Archive, Wiretapped.net, 2600 Australia www.ausmac.net www.wiretapped.net www.2600.org.au --- -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] OT: 2Br Unit for Share
Bandwidth connection? :) hehe... - Original Message - From: Andrew Rembrandt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 10:57 PM Subject: [SLUG] OT: 2Br Unit for Share Hi all, If you are interested, or know anyone who might be, please let me know. 1 professional clean and tidy, non-smoker male or female 20-30, to share with 1 professional male. The Place: Spacious 2 bedroom unit with large combined lounge and dining. Large kitchen, laundry, bathroom, linen cupboard, and balcony. Location - Lane Cove - Near the corner of Epping Road and the Pacific Highway [it is quiet though]. - 2min walk to Lane Cove shops [Supermarket, Cafe's, etc]. - 5min bus trip to Chatswood Station. - 20min Bus trip to Town Hall/QVB. - 30min Bus trip to Epping Station. Details: - Rent is $137pw in addition to bond and expenses [phone, electricity, etc...] - Available Friday the 11th of May. - Can inspect this Saturday, reply to organise. Regards, Andrew -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] LRP
Anyone had much experience with the LRP? I have downloaded an image and can get the machine to boot, but was wondering where to go from there. Documentation seems to be scarse. I want to have 1 ethernet for cable modem (dhcp), 1 serial port for modem with perm connection with static IP address and second ethernet for local lan. Bascially want to have something to keep the modem up and use iproute2 (I think) to router the packets the right way. My routing policy is to return packets out the route they came in on and a default route out the cable. This way I can run a mail/web server on the static range and it will work and all locally generated trafic will go over the cable. Any pointers on prebuilt floppies? I did not come accross an easy way to roll your own. Only thing different from normal is I want two ethernet cards not one and I need to run dhcp to get the address off the cable. Thanks for the tips. Rodos -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] | When I first started working with sendmail, I was Camion Technology | convinced that the cf file had been created by someone +61 2 9873 5105 | bashing their head on the keyboard. After a week, I | realised this was, indeed, almost certainly the case. | [unknown] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] Help fight the dreaded H.T.M.L.
As most of you will be aware, the main SLUG website has not had any -- user visible -- design changes in many years (according to some estimates since about 1996). While stability is a good thing, newness never hurts. Accordingly SLUG is looking at different designs for the main website and/or using different technologies, apart from static web pages, to get us there. We'd like to invite any SLUG member with an interest in participating to join the web-devel mailling list [1], and provide some input to the committee members looking at this issue (presently Jeff Waugh, Angus Lees, Chris Collins and Conrad Parker). For those of you who might want to know what the current site looks like I've made a copy (as of 01 May 2001) in [2]. What has already been discussed is the database to be used (PostGres) and the languages available (PHP, mason, emperl). However the general consensus was show me the code. Note you won't have access to the SLUG machine just because you've expressed interest -- you'll need to demonstrate what you can do. The web group already has some preliminary design constraints: 1. The main types of dynamic content discussed were announcements of upcoming events (meetings, fests etc), and news relevent to Sluggers, and anyone using Linux in Sydney (but NOT general geek news, headlines etc). 2. The events should be hooked up to a calendar, so people can get an overview of what is coming up and what events have been on recently -- ie. the front page shows the next event or two, and a more detailed calendar page(s) gives a longer term view. 3. As the upcoming events thing is more important (in terms of persistence) than other news, it should be a separate section prominent on the front page (ie. so you can always find out about the next meeting by checking the front page). Further constraint refinement and code development will likely take place on the web-devel list. Thanks, Anand [1]: URL: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/web-devel [2]: URL: http://slug.org.au/slug-site.tar.gz, 13Mb -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] Debian autobuilder
Debgeeks ahoy! I'd like to set up an autobuilder for a bunch of packages here, has anyone done this before? I can't seem to find the any appropriate packages in apt-cache. ;) [ Yeah, so I'm hoping to avoid the hassle, given that the there are autobuilders building the OS already. ] - Jeff -- Australians don't dislike Americans, we just dislike the sight, sound and thought of them. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] HP NetRAID 1M
David, We run this card along with the HP NetRAID 3 in half a dozen linux boxes (RH6.2) and it works just fine using a standard install. We started using this card with RH6.0. If it's the same card then it's a MegaRaid # cat /proc/scsi/scsi Attached devices: Host: scsi1 Channel: 01 Id: 00 Lun: 00 Vendor: MegaRAID Model: LD0 RAID1 8677R Rev: A Type: Direct-AccessANSI SCSI revision: 02 -- HTH rgds Pete -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] Two modems, how to split the data stream?
All, how do I split the data stream when using two modems? Ipchains? Is there a module which does this kind of thing? My ISP just gave me the option of adding modems to my setup to increase throughput so I want some URL/info on how to split the data. (this is by the way without any setup fee other than telstras line connection costs!) Why not ADSL you ask? Well Connect.Com using their OWN equipment in the exchanges and not telstras, hence it takes a little more time to set theses things up Doing it this way Connect.Com moves away from the problems of congestion in the ADSL backplane as a lot of (sub)ISP's using those as well. jobst -- #include signature.h |__, Jobst Schmalenbach, [EMAIL PROTECTED], Technical Director| | _ _.--'-n_/ Barrett Consulting Group P/L The Meditation Room P/L | |-(_)--(_)= +61 3 9532 7677, POBox 277, Caulfield South, 3162, Australia| -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] language jihad
Noted with interest about the use of mason as a potential language for the development of the SLUG site... and I need to learn a language for web development and database (postgres? mysql?) similar to the SLUG requirements. PERL, PHP, mason? what the hell is mason? There have also been other languages mentioned that I've never heard of. I don't know any current language (I was a cobol programmer in the 70's). I remember someone on list being incredibly disparaging of PHP. A language jihad might guide me (and others?) which direction to take, and avoid false prophets. What are the serious strengths and weaknesses, and which are ridiculously difficult to learn. Do they relate to other languages or are they are a blind alley. Any other thoughts? If this list is the wrong place to pose this question, where would be better? David. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] language jihad
On Tue, 01 May 2001, David wrote: Noted with interest about the use of mason as a potential language for the development of the SLUG site... and I need to learn a language for web development and database (postgres? mysql?) similar to the SLUG requirements. PERL, PHP, mason? what the hell is mason? There have also been other languages mentioned that I've never heard of. I don't know any current language (I was a cobol programmer in the 70's). I remember someone on list being incredibly disparaging of PHP. A language jihad might guide me (and others?) which direction to take, and avoid false prophets. What are the serious strengths and weaknesses, and which are ridiculously difficult to learn. Do they relate to other languages or are they are a blind alley. Any other thoughts? If this list is the wrong place to pose this question, where would be better? Let the flame war begin : I want comment on others I'll just give you my ideas about my favourite high level/scripting language. Python (www.python.org) is a nice object oriented language which I find quite good for most of my needs. I'll outline pros and cons below. Pros: Cross platform - (unix, windows, macintosh, java(www.jython.org)) Object Oriented - (but not as strict as java) Quick to learn Easy to write 3 months after writing Active development team Can be extended embedded with C/C++ modules White space for syntax Database interfaces for postgresql (and probably mysql) mod_python for apache web development Cons: Nothing like CPAN (yet) Doesn't have a large installed user base (such as perl) White space for syntax Doesn't have DBI (well it does, its just not well supported yet) There is probably a lot I've missed :) Cheers, Benno -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] language jihad
David wrote:
...snip
I don't know any current language (I was a cobol programmer in the 70's).
I remember someone on list being incredibly disparaging of PHP.
A language jihad might guide me (and others?) which direction to take, and
avoid false prophets.
Stick with Cobol. It is still around and in use.
All the others have been fads that have come and gone.
If you want to program under Linux/*nix, then C.
It really is a case of how long does my string need to be, i.e. what do
you want to do with it and why?
If you are looking for contracts, try searching something like jobnet
(http://www.jobnet.com.au) for the instances that each language is
mentioned and rate 3 for essential and 1 for desireable skills (or?). A
few monthly plots might give you an idea of what is hot, coming on etc.
--
Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.woa.com.au
WOA Computer Services lan/wan, linux/unix, novell
People without trees are like fish without clean water
--
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Re: [SLUG] language jihad
David was once rumoured to have said: Noted with interest about the use of mason as a potential language for the development of the SLUG site... and I need to learn a language for web development and database (postgres? mysql?) similar to the SLUG requirements. PERL, PHP, mason? what the hell is mason? There have also been other languages mentioned that I've never heard of. Mason [aka HTML::Mason] is one of the two `embeded perl' systems for mod_perl. The other one is EmbPerl. Mason's web page is at http://masonhq.com/ HTML::Mason uses a component model - you construct your pages out of components, which can execute arbitary Perl, in addition to containing HTML/Text/whatever. Its a nice environment to work with - and has drastically improved in recent times. (Error reporting is no longer confusing, as I discovered much to my own personal joy last night). And as I discovered last night, there are some really nice ways to set up things like Session tracking in it using the standard Perl modules. C. -- --==-- Crossfire | This email was brought to you [EMAIL PROTECTED] | on 100% Recycled Electrons --==-- -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] For great victory!
Right ( cocks flamethrower with underslung advocacy gun ) Perl rocks. Why? 1. Easy to get going. You can write Perl in a style that matches what your used to. I have seen Perl like Basic, Perl like Shell Script, Perl like C, and even, god forbid, Perl like Cobol. 2. String based language. A natural for doing web development. 3. Robust module system that let's you link to just about anything ( Databases, mail, ftp, nntp, XML, and many many many others ) 4. Objects if you want them ( although admittedly the syntax is a little odd ). 5. Good seperation between code and content. Do not underestimate this one. I have a personal grudge against PHP, ASP, and JSP because they embed code inside the content, making it much more difficult. I have a better opinion of servlets, but flamesuitI still regard *SP as toy languages./flamesuit. I work at what is largely a design agency notaplug( http://amnesia.com.au )/notaplug who are only recently started to do coding, and being able to work well with designers really helps. I'm sure there must be SOMEONE in slug who is a decent designer. 6. There is a fairly good user base of Perl coders. Now, I've only done a little bit of PHP, so I think someone else would be much better qualified to tout PHPs advantages. Mason. Now Mason is a web design system. From the mason page What Is Mason? Mason is a powerful Perl-based web site development and delivery engine. With Mason you can embed Perl code in your HTML and construct pages from shared, reusable components I've only looked at it a little, but I have a feeling it may still suffer some of the same HTML/code mixing problems, but if your using mod_perl it looks pretty good. On the downside, it has a higher barrier to entry than straight Perl does. I don't know if that would be a problem or not. For those wanting more information, mason is at http://www.masonhq.com. A general introduction is at http://www.masonhq.com/docs/manual/Mason.html So, to summarise, I'm personally pre-Perl anti-*SP, and Mason neutral. Oh, and noticing Ben's mail, I hear nice things about Python, but the number of people who know it are much lower... plug type=shameless On another note, I do have some interesting so far unreleased extremely rapid design tools, and I'm willing to assist with the page. For a look a brief summary, see http://sourceforge.net/projects/appspace/ /plug AdamK - Original Message - From: David [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 8:12 AM Subject: [SLUG] language jihad Noted with interest about the use of mason as a potential language for the development of the SLUG site... and I need to learn a language for web development and database (postgres? mysql?) similar to the SLUG requirements. PERL, PHP, mason? what the hell is mason? There have also been other languages mentioned that I've never heard of. I don't know any current language (I was a cobol programmer in the 70's). I remember someone on list being incredibly disparaging of PHP. A language jihad might guide me (and others?) which direction to take, and avoid false prophets. What are the serious strengths and weaknesses, and which are ridiculously difficult to learn. Do they relate to other languages or are they are a blind alley. Any other thoughts? If this list is the wrong place to pose this question, where would be better? David. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] /var/log/XFree86.0.log
On Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 11:29:36AM +1000, I wrote: Anyone know how to either stop X from creating this file or reduce the amount of junk it writes to the log? I'm running XFree86 4.0.1. I've found the answer. It is possible to redirect the log file to /dev/null *if* you're root, but not otherwise. However, the verbosity of the logging is controllable: startx -- -logverbose 0 This writes almost nothing to the log and keeps its size down to only a few hundred bytes. This option isn't mentioned in the man pages. Cheers, John -- whois [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] For great victory!
On Tue, 1 May 2001, Adam Kennedy wrote: Now, I've only done a little bit of PHP, so I think someone else would be much better qualified to tout PHPs advantages. I must say, I quite like PHP for its simplicity and ease of use. I like knowing the full picture of things, and thus can envisage web pages much easier if I can see the HTML around it too. However, you don't need to embed as much as you think into the actual HTML, that's what include and requires is for. :) But as to speed of writing, my online journal took about 2 days to implement (http://www.liedra.net/journal) - it's a mysql (I'd have rathered postgres but my hosting place didn't have it) db driven journal with full editing capabilities, etc. I'm planning to niceify it and release it when I finish some more features (email notification, etc) and make it easy to edit the default backgounds/settings etc. I'd love to join in on some webcoding, but I only know PHP (and am currently learning perl for work, but am still a novice there)... I've joined the web-devel list anyway :) If anyone else has some PHP happiness to add here, please do! Catie -- Acephali \A*cepha*li\, n. pl. [LL., pl. of acephalus. See Acephal.] 1. A fabulous people reported by ancient writers to have heads. - http://www.dictionary.com -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] language jihad
Ben Leslie wrote: Python (www.python.org) is a nice object oriented language which I find quite good for most of my needs. I'll outline pros and cons below. Pros: Database interfaces for postgresql (and probably mysql) * Yes it has MySQL module for connectivity. * a module PyXML for XML applications development that is easier to use than the Perl XML modules. * smaller footprint for the interpreter than Perl Mike -- Michael Lake University of Technology, Sydney Email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph: 02 9514 1724 Fx: 02 9514 1628 URL: http://www.science.uts.edu.au/~michael-lake/ Linux enthusiast, active caver and interested in anything technical. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
