Re: [SLUG] VMware-server virtual disk deletion
Ershad Shafi Chowdhury wrote: The virtual hard disks are created as files. You should be able to delete the files from windows explorer. search for *.vmdk and delete all the junk in that directory. Thanks for replying, Ershad. Windows Explorer isn't available for the purpose. I was using a Linux version of VMware-server. In any event, I've deleted all files with a vmdk extension. P.S. Why are you creating new virtual machines? plenty to download and test :) Some time after Samuel Johnson's famous dictionary appeared, a woman asked him how he'd managed to misdefine some particular term. His answer was, Ignorance, Madam, pure ignorance. My answer to your question is, Ignorance, Sir, pure ignorance. Probably what I should've done is download the VMware Player and a virtual machine for the Linux distribution I wanted to try. However, the version available wasn't a current one, so I thought I'd try to create a virtual machine for the current version, a plain case of overreaching on my part. Thanks again, Leslie -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] VMware-server virtual disk deletion
When I deleted the VMware-server virtual hard disks, they were actually moved to either root's or my .Trash directory, as appropriate. Until they were deleted from whichever of those two directories they were in, they continued to take up the same space as before their deletion. Now that I've cleared out those two directories, I'm back to having 13GB used instead of 29GB in the relevant partition. Apologies for having troubled people unnecessarily. Leslie -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Can anyone recommend a reasonable text to speech software?
Hi all, I have been looking for a text to speech software, I have tried festival but that didn't quite do what I wanted. It works well but the sound is not clear enough and sometimes very hard to understand if the volume is not high. Would anyone know any other software that I could use for that? I am trying to use a script to pass messages to it so that they are automatically said. Thanks Vini -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Patching sound between different ALSA devices
Thought I might throw this one out there, as I have no idea yet where to even begin looking for information on it. I have two ALSA devices; a sound card and a USB headset. Is there any way to have sound input one one device routed and played via the other? Specifically, I've got input coming in on line in on the sound card, and I'd like to listen on my headset, without using the sound card's outputs. -- Pete -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Can anyone recommend a reasonable text to speech software?
On Wed, Dec 06, 2006 at 07:46:28PM EST, Vini Engel wrote: Hi all, I have been looking for a text to speech software, I have tried festival but that didn't quite do what I wanted. It works well but the sound is not clear enough and sometimes very hard to understand if the volume is not high. Would anyone know any other software that I could use for that? I am trying to use a script to pass messages to it so that they are automatically said. Have a look at espeak, http://espeak.sourceforge.net. It might sound alright for your needs. If you are using Ubuntu, just enable the Universe repository, and apt-get install espeak, which is available in Edgy and later. -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] VMware-server virtual disk deletion
vmware for Linux seems to work well for me anyhow... don't know what probs you were having though... ben Leslie Katz wrote: When I deleted the VMware-server virtual hard disks, they were actually moved to either root's or my .Trash directory, as appropriate. Until they were deleted from whichever of those two directories they were in, they continued to take up the same space as before their deletion. Now that I've cleared out those two directories, I'm back to having 13GB used instead of 29GB in the relevant partition. Apologies for having troubled people unnecessarily. Leslie -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] cloning/replacing hardrive
savepart is free software for cloning... Ben Voytek Eymont wrote: On Wed, December 6, 2006 10:27 am, Alan L Tyree wrote: On Wed, 6 Dec 2006 10:02:02 +1100 (EST) Voytek Eymont [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you really need to clone the whole system? I had a similar problem recently - installed a new disk and moved the /home partition to it following instructions: http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/separatehome thanks, Alan no, I've used 'clone' as a generic term for 'recreating current system', I'd rather copy each partition from old to new, DaZZa suggested 'dd' (which I guess is the 'copy' that I want) I'll review the link, thanks at this point, I'm on a learning/research quest (my biggest current 'sticking point' is, will the the BIOS in P3 support the 80GB...?) I'm currently debating the two options like: - replace the whole 20GB with 80GB ? - add 80GB as second drive, and, mount 'home' and whatever to second drive ? I guess the 2nd option is easier to achieve -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Re: cloning/replacing hardrive
Voytek Eymont wrote: I have a RH system that is running out of disk space faster than I can figure out what can I delete to gain space, in the short term, I just need to give it more hardrive space, what are my best options to clone the old 20GB IDE drive to a new 80GB IDE drive ? can I clone a running system ? Yes, you can. Boot the system to a bare shell, by giving grub/lilo the init=/bin/sh kernel option. Then mount all disks (look at /etc/fstab to see which ones are there) read-only (give the -r option to mount). Then partition your new disk. Format the partitions as you see fit. Mount them all somewhere, such as under /mnt/newdisk, and using the final hierarchy (so /mnt/newdisk as root, /mnt/newdisk/home, etc). Then copy all old partitions over, using the -ax option to do individual filesystems. Eg: cp -avx / /mnt/newdisk cp -avx /home/ /mnt/newdisk/home [etc] The -a flags copies all attributes and ownership, and -x keeps each operation to one filesystem. -v turns on verbose (ie prints each file as its copied). Once it's all copied, install the bootloader to the new disk, and you're done. You might need to change the fstab if you've changed partitions. BB -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] cloning/replacing hardrive
On Wed, December 6, 2006 1:24 pm, DaZZa wrote: On 12/6/06, Voytek Eymont [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I want /tmp mounted as non-executable to prevent malware executed through cms vulnerability (as it happened now twice in the last few month...) shouldn't that 'add a layer' of defense in case of further infiltrations ? Yes, but it could break other things in the process. Changing permissions on system directories is never a good thing. You never know what you're likely to break. But you can try that without having it on a seperate partition - there's no need for it. how do I do that ? -- Voytek -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: cloning/replacing hardrive
On Wed, December 6, 2006 10:00 pm, Ben Buxton wrote: Voytek Eymont wrote: can I clone a running system ? Yes, you can. Ben, thanks for detailed info what I really meant to ask, was 'can I copy/clone a running systems whilst it's in normal operation'; I gather the answer is 'no' Boot the system to a bare shell, by giving grub/lilo the init=/bin/sh kernel option. Then mount all disks (look at /etc/fstab to see which ones are there) read-only (give the -r option to mount). Then partition your new disk. Format the partitions as you see fit. Mount them all somewhere, such as under /mnt/newdisk, and using the final hierarchy (so /mnt/newdisk as root, /mnt/newdisk/home, etc). Then copy all old partitions over, using the -ax option to do individual filesystems. Eg: cp -avx / /mnt/newdisk cp -avx /home/ /mnt/newdisk/home [etc] The -a flags copies all attributes and ownership, and -x keeps each operation to one filesystem. -v turns on verbose (ie prints each file as its copied). Once it's all copied, install the bootloader to the new disk, and you're done. You might need to change the fstab if you've changed partitions. BB -- Voytek -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] cloning/replacing hardrive
On Wed, December 6, 2006 1:23 pm, DaZZa wrote: On 12/6/06, Voytek Eymont [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You realise it'd probably be easier to just stick the new drive in, make partitions on it and move selected branches from your directory tree to new mountpoints? Like /home and /var, for example? yes, as per my other mssg: - I'm currently debating the two options like: - replace the whole 20GB with 80GB ? - add 80GB as second drive, and, mount 'home' and whatever to second drive ? I guess the 2nd option is easier to achieve -- the more I think about it, the more I think I should opt for the easy way out... and, try the 'hard way' when I have more time to spare if I put the second drive: is it best to put it as master on the second IDE controller ? what command to use to copy say '/home' to the new hard drive ? -- Voytek -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Re: cloning/replacing hardrive
Voytek Eymont wrote: On Wed, December 6, 2006 10:00 pm, Ben Buxton wrote: Voytek Eymont wrote: can I clone a running system ? Yes, you can. Ben, thanks for detailed info what I really meant to ask, was 'can I copy/clone a running systems whilst it's in normal operation'; I gather the answer is 'no' Definitely not. Files that are open for writing might get changed after they're copied, breaking stuff or leading to duplicate mail/logs/billing/etc. It's always important to make sure the filesystem you're copying is not going to be changed mid-copy - either mount read-only or be really sure that no process will write to it - in which case a readonly mount can be done anyway. BB -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] My toaster has a proprietry OS, its got to be Linux...but how can I hack into it?
I reckon this must be fairly common, but in my street I can see a LOT of wireless n/w;s and most of them are default name NETGEAR and default password passwordor 0 security. So I think that although the range is good, its perhaps its too omni-directional? I have a Netgear router and cannot hook up my older laptop, this runs Win98. Any suggestions as to why this OS does not even see the pc card? I am annoyed at Netgear, tomorrow I have to return the SC101 storage central (which is running of my 646) because a) it only works with XP SP2 and 2K SP4I need to run Mandriva, Win98 OSX too. My cousin bought it - can anyone tell me a better way to share files within a home network? I think the SC101 is more for set number of PC's all running XP. They wont even support a Vista driver until mid next year, and the Indian guy at the call centre couldn't wait to get me off the phone when I began asking questions on interfacing with this zetera OS the toaster oven runs - No it is a propr-r-rietary operating system, you can not. Nobody can, only Vindows, thankyou for calling. ...needless to say I was on hold for 20 minutes for this little pearl *sigh* Any help, would be very...helpful. Regards Henry -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] My toaster has a proprietry OS, its got to be Linux...but how can I hack into it?
On 07/12/2006, at 4:57 AM, hav wrote: I reckon this must be fairly common, but in my street I can see a LOT of wireless n/w;s and most of them are default name NETGEAR and default password passwordor 0 security. So I think that although the range is good, its perhaps its too omni-directional? I have a Netgear router and cannot hook up my older laptop, this runs Win98. Any suggestions as to why this OS does not even see the pc card? Is the card a PCI card? Not too clear on your description. If so, its possible the machine don't support PCI v2.1 which I believe all those wireless cards require. So older motherboards won't support that revision of the standard and as such the cards don't work. If the machine has an ethernet port you could always buy an access point that does client mode, and use the network port to hook upto a AP with client mode and let the AP talk back to the wireless device on your network. Then your 98 machine will think it has a ethernet network connection, but little does it know its actually the AP plugged into it doing the work. Thanks -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] My toaster has a proprietry OS, its got to be Linux...but how can I hack into it?
On 12/7/06, hav [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am annoyed at Netgear, tomorrow I have to return the SC101 storage central (which is running of my 646) because a) it only works with XP SP2 and 2K SP4I need to run Mandriva, Win98 OSX too. My cousin bought it - can anyone tell me a better way to share files within a home network? You could of course set up a *nix machine with a samba share.. or, since you seem to like the appliance router, try the Linksys NSLU/2 (http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Product_C2childpagename=US%2FLayoutcid=1119460471050pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper) It runs linux and is eminently hackable - http://www.nslu2-linux.org/ has info about three different distros (including plain Debian - Etch is planned to have an installer specifically targetted to this device) that you can choose from. -- There is nothing more worthy of contempt than a man who quotes himself - Zhasper, 2004 -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] VMware-server virtual disk deletion
On Wednesday 06 December 2006 19:05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: never had this happen before. usually you have to remove the VM from the list of servers in the inventory first. then blow away the files. possibly something is still holding them open. you could always reboot the host server and then try deleting the files. Ben Thanks for replying, Ben. I did remove the first VM from the inventory before creating the second one, thinking that that would release the 8GB. I didn't remove the second VM before uninstalling the application, foolishly thinking that the first 8GB had already been released and that uninstalling would put an end to the allocation of the second 8MB. I have rebooted the host, but df -h still shows that 29GB out of 36GB on the / partition are used, whereas, before I started this foolhardy adventure, it showed that only 13GB had been used. I've also searched for directories and files with vmware in their name and deleted all of them (or almost all), but that hasn't hit the jackpot yet. I'll keep on with that. When you created and setup your vmware you specified where the files were: /var/lib/vmware/Virtual Machines is the default place. I must say I've got toys loose in the attic: I cannot get a downloaded VM to work, or even 1 I've made to work for another user, despite chowning the files. EG jam creates a VM. chown -R mary ThisVMName. Mary can't use the VM :-(. I get a DL VM belonging to (say) carlos, no such user all owned by 1012 chown to jam and jam does not have permission to run ??? [open VM click, same as if you had not pressed click] James -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] My toaster has a proprietry OS, its got to be Linux...but how can I hack into it?
This one time, at band camp, hav wrote: I am annoyed at Netgear, tomorrow I have to return the SC101 storage central (which is running of my 646) because a) it only works with XP SP2 and 2K SP4 These have performed very poorly in reviews. Apparently the on-disk filesystem is proprietary, so if the box it's running on dies you lose your data or have to buy another one. As suggested, the NSLU2 runs Linux. -- Rev Simon Rumble [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.rumble.net Those who know nothing of foreign languages know nothing of their own. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] VMware-server virtual disk deletion
On Wednesday 06 December 2006 19:05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The virtual hard disks are created as files. You should be able to delete the files from windows explorer. search for *.vmdk and delete all the junk in that directory. Thanks for replying, Ershad. Windows Explorer isn't available for the purpose. I was using a Linux version of VMware-server. In any event, I've deleted all files with a vmdk extension. Which saves most of the space, but is WRONG tigger:/ # ls /var/lib/vmware/Virtual\ Machines/ WinQt WXP rm -fr WXP is the right way to delete the WXP VM. James -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Video: DET considers Linux on the desktop
This one time, at band camp, Howard Lowndes wrote: The NSW Department of Education and Training (DET) may increase the penetration of Linux on its 165,000 desktop fleet because open source is clearly an industry trend. Because it's trendy? Yeesh! I couldn't think of a WORSE reason to make a specific technology decision. That's worse than nobody ever got sacked for choosing... (IBM/MS/Java). -- Rev Simon Rumble [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.rumble.net The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armour to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he who, by peddling second-rate technology, led them into it in the first place. - Douglas Adams on Windows '95. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Video: DET considers Linux on the desktop
Rev Simon Rumble wrote: This one time, at band camp, Howard Lowndes wrote: The NSW Department of Education and Training (DET) may increase the penetration of Linux on its 165,000 desktop fleet because open source is clearly an industry trend. Because it's trendy? Yeesh! I couldn't think of a WORSE reason to make a specific technology decision. That's worse than nobody ever got sacked for choosing... (IBM/MS/Java). But this is how many people make decisions in areas that they are not knowledgeable in. Once x is trendy then a generic manager will listen to advice suggesting x, before that many will not move outside known/safe. Ken -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Video: DET considers Linux on the desktop
This one time, at band camp, Ken Wilson wrote: But this is how many people make decisions in areas that they are not knowledgeable in. Once x is trendy then a generic manager will listen to advice suggesting x, before that many will not move outside known/safe. You only have to see how much corporate stuff is written in Java to know this. Management regularly use what's on the cover of my CIO magazine as a guide to what technology to choose. -- Rev Simon Rumble [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.rumble.net Nothing is so admirable in politics as a short memory. - J K Galbraith -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Video: DET considers Linux on the desktop
Rev Simon Rumble wrote: This one time, at band camp, Howard Lowndes wrote: The NSW Department of Education and Training (DET) may increase the penetration of Linux on its 165,000 desktop fleet because open source is clearly an industry trend. Because it's trendy? Yeesh! I couldn't think of a WORSE reason to make a specific technology decision. Education departments are expected to anticipate trends so that workers are educated with relevant skills. For an *education* provider choosing something solely because it is an industry trend is ample reasoning and a good thing. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Error compiling Eicon Diva from source
Hello everyone, I'm having some errors while compiling the source code for an Eicon Diva BRI card. I am using Fedora Core 6 with a compiled from source Linux kernel 2.6.19. I have downloaded the Eicon Diva source RPM (divas4linux_EICON-106.12-1.i386.rpm) and installed it already. When I go to /usr/lib/eicon/divas/src/ and run ./Build, everything starts correctly until that part where it has to do a make modules call. The last part of the divas.log file is as follows: quote HOSTCC scripts/conmakehash #+ LOG INFO: end modules_prepare cp: cannot stat `tmp.h': No such file or directory WARNING: Symbol version dump /usr/src/linux-2.6.19/Module.symvers is missing; modules will have no dependencies and modversions. CC [M] drivers/isdn/capi/kcapi.o CC [M] drivers/isdn/capi/capiutil.o drivers/isdn/capi/capiutil.c:20:26: error: linux/config.h: No such file or directory make[2]: *** [drivers/isdn/capi/capiutil.o] Error 1 make[1]: *** [drivers/isdn/capi] Error 2 make: *** [_module_drivers/isdn] Error 2 #+ LOG INFO: pwd:/usr/lib/eicon/divas/src #! LOG ABORT EXECUTION DUE TO ERROR : Failed to call 'make modules' #! LOG ERROR INFO: make modules /quote Anyone know how I can get this working? Best Regards, Matt -- Matt Arnilo S. Baluyos [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://del.icio.us/mbaluyos v3sw3CH+Rhw2ln5pr6OPck5ma7u5Lw5Xm+7l7CRi2e6t5Xb7Oen4g5aIs4r3p6 hackerkey.com gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 171CD03E -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Video: DET considers Linux on the desktop
On Wed, Dec 06, 2006 at 10:52:01PM +, Rev Simon Rumble wrote: This one time, at band camp, Howard Lowndes wrote: The NSW Department of Education and Training (DET) may increase the penetration of Linux on its 165,000 desktop fleet because open source is clearly an industry trend. Because it's trendy? Yeesh! I couldn't think of a WORSE reason to make a specific technology decision. That's worse than nobody ever got sacked for choosing... (IBM/MS/Java). Don't knock it; 100m sheep can't be wrong. 1/2 a :-) Seriously, I think if you tried, you could find a worse reason. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer)
O Plameras wrote: Just a footnote: one CANNOT register to be authoritative for a set of public ip addresses that one does not own. One has to pay (or be authorized by) the owner of the public ip addresses to use it for the services previously mentioned. Um, I can point www.example.aarnet.edu.au to whatever IP address I care to. I don't need the IP address owner's permission. I do need to be able to update the zone example.aarnet.edu.au, either manually or using dynamic DNS. It's the reverse DNS that the owner of the IP address space controls. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer)
Glen Turner wrote: O Plameras wrote: Just a footnote: one CANNOT register to be authoritative for a set of public ip addresses that one does not own. One has to pay (or be authorized by) the owner of the public ip addresses to use it for the services previously mentioned. Um, I can point www.example.aarnet.edu.au to whatever IP address I care to. I don't need the IP address owner's permission. I do need to be able to update the zone example.aarnet.edu.au, either manually or using dynamic DNS. It's the reverse DNS that the owner of the IP address space controls. So, what happens when you do, www.example.aarnet.edu.au A IN 203.7.132.1 in your live DNS, and I or anyone say at AOL will not successfully access http://www.example.aarnet.edu.au. Do a, # whois 203.7.132.1 and you'll see this ip address is not owned by aarnet.edu.au of course. O Plameras -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer)
On Thu Dec 07, 2006 at 15:17:47 +1100, O Plameras wrote: Glen Turner wrote: O Plameras wrote: Just a footnote: one CANNOT register to be authoritative for a set of public ip addresses that one does not own. One has to pay (or be authorized by) the owner of the public ip addresses to use it for the services previously mentioned. Um, I can point www.example.aarnet.edu.au to whatever IP address I care to. I don't need the IP address owner's permission. I do need to be able to update the zone example.aarnet.edu.au, either manually or using dynamic DNS. It's the reverse DNS that the owner of the IP address space controls. So, what happens when you do, www.example.aarnet.edu.au A IN 203.7.132.1 in your live DNS, The name www.example.aarnet.edu.au will resolve to 203.7.132.1 and I or anyone say at AOL will not successfully access http://www.example.aarnet.edu.au. .ummm, you won't get to successfully access the site as that host doesn't appear to have a webserver running on port 80... Do a, # whois 203.7.132.1 and you'll see this ip address is not owned by aarnet.edu.au of course. Correct! But so what? -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer)
Ben Leslie wrote: On Thu Dec 07, 2006 at 15:17:47 +1100, O Plameras wrote: Glen Turner wrote: O Plameras wrote: Just a footnote: one CANNOT register to be authoritative for a set of public ip addresses that one does not own. One has to pay (or be authorized by) the owner of the public ip addresses to use it for the services previously mentioned. Um, I can point www.example.aarnet.edu.au to whatever IP address I care to. I don't need the IP address owner's permission. I do need to be able to update the zone example.aarnet.edu.au, either manually or using dynamic DNS. It's the reverse DNS that the owner of the IP address space controls. So, what happens when you do, www.example.aarnet.edu.au A IN 203.7.132.1 in your live DNS, The name www.example.aarnet.edu.au will resolve to 203.7.132.1 It will resolve ONLY within aarnet.edu.au but NOT the INTERNET. And even if it resolves within aarnet.edu.au domain users their cannot access successfully http://www.aarnet.edu.au because registration as authorative for a set of public ip address is a process that is a lot more that just having a correct technical entry in your live DNS. and I or anyone say at AOL will not successfully access http://www.example.aarnet.edu.au. .ummm, you won't get to successfully access the site as that host doesn't appear to have a webserver running on port 80... No. You won't be able to reach that point of accessing port 80 because first you have to find the ip address 203.7.132.1. And you won't be able to find the computer hosting www.example.aarnet.edu.au even if there is an entry in aarnet.edu.au DNS. Do a, # whois 203.7.132.1 and you'll see this ip address is not owned by aarnet.edu.au of course. Correct! But so what? Because accessing a WEB server successfully is more that just resolving. For example, your domain must be authorative for that public ip address. This is not like administering a HOME network. It's the INTERNET. What you are effectively saying is you can because 'you can'; then it's like saying you can break-in in to a property because you can, There is enough protection against people who wish to break-in just like there is enough protection against people who wish to attack networks maliciously. Even after you have the entries in your live DNS you still have to go through a process in order that you will be authorized to associate (authorative) www.example.aarnet.edu.au to 203.7.132.1 as far as the INTERNET is concerned. It involves more that one Organizations. Breaking-in is wrong and not allowed by the process. That's why even if it resolves to the number within aarnet.edu.au domain it will not on the INTERNET. That's why this resolution will not produce the desired result namely, access www.example.aarnet.edu.au successfully. I think there is a document that spells out the procedures and rules about this in aunic. O Plameras -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer)
On Thu Dec 07, 2006 at 15:59:45 +1100, O Plameras wrote: Ben Leslie wrote: On Thu Dec 07, 2006 at 15:17:47 +1100, O Plameras wrote: It's the reverse DNS that the owner of the IP address space controls. So, what happens when you do, www.example.aarnet.edu.au A IN 203.7.132.1 in your live DNS, The name www.example.aarnet.edu.au will resolve to 203.7.132.1 It will resolve ONLY within aarnet.edu.au but NOT the INTERNET. Incorrect. And even if it resolves within aarnet.edu.au domain users their cannot access successfully http://www.aarnet.edu.au because registration as authorative for a set of public ip address is a process that is a lot more that just having a correct technical entry in your live DNS. Incorrect. and I or anyone say at AOL will not successfully access http://www.example.aarnet.edu.au. .ummm, you won't get to successfully access the site as that host doesn't appear to have a webserver running on port 80... No. You won't be able to reach that point of accessing port 80 because first you have to find the ip address 203.7.132.1. Incorrect. You can find that ip address. And you won't be able to find the computer hosting www.example.aarnet.edu.au even if there is an entry in aarnet.edu.au DNS. Yes I will. Correct! But so what? Because accessing a WEB server successfully is more that just resolving. Correct! For example, your domain must be authorative for that public ip address. Incorrect! This is not like administering a HOME network. It's the INTERNET. No way! Not the INTERNET! What you are effectively saying is you can because 'you can'; then it's like saying you can break-in in to a property because you can, No that is a very different thing. There is enough protection against people who wish to break-in just like there is enough protection against people who wish to attack networks maliciously. What am I breaking into? Even after you have the entries in your live DNS you still have to go through a process in order that you will be authorized to associate (authorative) www.example.aarnet.edu.au to 203.7.132.1 as far as the INTERNET is concerned. It involves more that one Organizations. Incorrect. Breaking-in is wrong and not allowed by the process. Nothing is being broken into. That's why even if it resolves to the number within aarnet.edu.au domain it will not on the INTERNET. That's why this resolution will not produce the desired result namely, access www.example.aarnet.edu.au successfully. Yes it will. I think there is a document that spells out the procedures and rules about this in aunic. There is no document describing such a process because the process you describe is wrong. DNS is basically just a big map NAME - IP ADDRESS The name bit is kind of divided up into a tree. When you register a domain name you get the right to add any mappings underneath your domain. E.g: I have registered benno.id.au, so I can create any mappings *.benno.id.au - ip address. No one can stop me doing that! I can point any name to any ip address I want! They can exist, not exist, whatever! Now there is also a reverse mapping ip address - name I can't just go and put anything in there. But guess what, for resolving a name, there doesn't need to be a reverse mapping! Benno -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer)
Ben Leslie wrote: On Thu Dec 07, 2006 at 15:59:45 +1100, O Plameras wrote: Ben Leslie wrote: On Thu Dec 07, 2006 at 15:17:47 +1100, O Plameras wrote: It's the reverse DNS that the owner of the IP address space controls. So, what happens when you do, www.example.aarnet.edu.au A IN 203.7.132.1 in your live DNS, The name www.example.aarnet.edu.au will resolve to 203.7.132.1 It will resolve ONLY within aarnet.edu.au but NOT the INTERNET. Incorrect. The authority to associate NAME to ip address has to be propagated up to the ROOT servers. You mean to say that AARNET can do this without the express approval from the owners of 203.7.132.1 ? NO, aarnet.edu.au cannot, otherwise it is against the rules and perhaps against the law. The rest of my responses is implied by the above. O Plameras -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] How the Internet Works for Dummies [Was: Why DHCP ?]
quote who=O Plameras The authority to associate NAME to ip address has to be propagated up to the ROOT servers. You mean to say that AARNET can do this without the express approval from the owners of 203.7.132.1 ? NO, aarnet.edu.au cannot, otherwise it is against the rules and perhaps against the law. The rest of my responses is implied by the above. Oscar, can you ssh to plammered.perkypants.org and tell me what you find? Thanks, - Jeff -- linux.conf.au 2007: Sydney, Australia http://lca2007.linux.org.au/ W.O.R.K: Weekend Over, Resume the Killings. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer)
On Thu Dec 07, 2006 at 16:19:47 +1100, O Plameras wrote: Ben Leslie wrote: On Thu Dec 07, 2006 at 15:59:45 +1100, O Plameras wrote: Ben Leslie wrote: On Thu Dec 07, 2006 at 15:17:47 +1100, O Plameras wrote: It's the reverse DNS that the owner of the IP address space controls. So, what happens when you do, www.example.aarnet.edu.au A IN 203.7.132.1 in your live DNS, The name www.example.aarnet.edu.au will resolve to 203.7.132.1 It will resolve ONLY within aarnet.edu.au but NOT the INTERNET. Incorrect. The authority to associate NAME to ip address has to be propagated up to the ROOT servers. You mean to say that AARNET can do this without the express approval from the owners of 203.7.132.1 ? NO, aarnet.edu.au cannot, otherwise it is against the rules and perhaps against the law. Incorrect. For example I have just registered: dns-is-hard.benno.id.au = 203.7.132.1 I did not need express approval from the owners of 203.7.132.1 because that is not how the INTERNET works. Nothing in the internet architecture stops be associating any name (under the domain I own) to any ip address I like. Just to prove a point: slug.benno.id.au = slug website You can even point names to ip addresses not on the INTERNET! Even the the name resolved on the INTERNET! hackme.benno.id.au = 127.0.0.1 The authority to associate NAME with IP is entirely on the NAME side not the IP side. Benno -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Elementary DNS theory (Was: Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer))
O Plameras wrote: The authority to associate NAME to ip address has to be propagated up to the ROOT servers. You mean to say that AARNET can do this without the express approval from the owners of 203.7.132.1 ? NO, aarnet.edu.au cannot, otherwise it is against the rules and perhaps against the law. The rest of my responses is implied by the above. I'd strongly suggest you get hold of a good book on DNS, and find out how it works before trying to explain it to anybody else. I found the introductory chapters of DNS and BIND ( http://safari.oreilly.com/0596100574 ) to be most illuminating. -- Pete -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer)
On Thu, 2006-12-07 at 15:59 +1100, O Plameras wrote: So, what happens when you do, www.example.aarnet.edu.au A IN 203.7.132.1 in your live DNS, The name www.example.aarnet.edu.au will resolve to 203.7.132.1 It will resolve ONLY within aarnet.edu.au but NOT the INTERNET. LOLOLOLOL. Thats made my day. Great joke Oscar. -Rob -- GPG key available at: http://www.robertcollins.net/keys.txt. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] How the Internet Works for Dummies [Was: Why DHCP ?]
Jeff Waugh wrote: quote who=O Plameras The authority to associate NAME to ip address has to be propagated up to the ROOT servers. You mean to say that AARNET can do this without the express approval from the owners of 203.7.132.1 ? NO, aarnet.edu.au cannot, otherwise it is against the rules and perhaps against the law. The rest of my responses is implied by the above. Oscar, can you ssh to plammered.perkypants.org and tell me what you find? This does not mean anything without any details as to what you are trying to prove and how you are doing it. You're probably misrepresenting, because I do a similar thing thru a Server on the internet and which is a different from what is under discussion. O Plameras -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] How the Internet Works for Dummies [Was: Why DHCP ?]
On 12/7/06, O Plameras [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Jeff Waugh wrote:
quote who=O Plameras
The authority to associate NAME to ip address has to be propagated up to
the ROOT servers. You mean to say that AARNET can do this without the
express approval from the owners of 203.7.132.1 ? NO, aarnet.edu.au
cannot, otherwise it is against the rules and perhaps against the law.
The rest of my responses is implied by the above.
Oscar, can you ssh to plammered.perkypants.org and tell me what you find?
This does not mean anything without any details as to what you are trying
to prove and how you are doing it.
You're probably misrepresenting, because I do a similar thing thru a Server
on the internet and which is a different from what is under discussion.
He's trying to prove you don't know what you're talking about - which
he did quite nicely.
The authority to associate a domain name with a given IP address does
*not* require the root servers, does *not* require permission from the
owner of the IP address, and is entirely at the whim of the owner of
the authoritative DNS for the given zone.
I can assign a host with *any* IP address a DNS entry in my DNS zone.
The DNS administrator or aarnet.edu.au could do the same, should he or
she {or more likely they} desire to.
There's nothing the owner of 203.7.132.1 could do about it. Hell,
they'd most likely not even *know* about it unless someone pointed it
out to them.
You sure you're not thinking of RDNS? That requires the approval of
the owner of the netblock concerned before it'll work.
DaZZa
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Re: Elementary DNS theory (Was: Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer))
Peter Hardy wrote: O Plameras wrote: The authority to associate NAME to ip address has to be propagated up to the ROOT servers. You mean to say that AARNET can do this without the express approval from the owners of 203.7.132.1 ? NO, aarnet.edu.au cannot, otherwise it is against the rules and perhaps against the law. The rest of my responses is implied by the above. I'd strongly suggest you get hold of a good book on DNS, and find out how it works before trying to explain it to anybody else. I found the introductory chapters of DNS and BIND ( http://safari.oreilly.com/0596100574 ) to be most illuminating. I have first, second, and third editions. I have the third edition in front of me. The book covers the technical process. Unfortunately, it does not cover the bureaucratic processes. The processes not covered by the book is the one that I am revealing to you. For example, technically aarnet.edu.au can propagate up to the ROOT Servers. But the bureaucratic process requires this has to be with the approval of the owners of the public ip address others this will not happen. Anyway, can you explain how you do this ? The book on DNS and BIND will not get you anywhere if that's all you will rely on. I made my living (very good living) until I retire doing Domain Name and IP address Administration back during the days when munnari.oz was the authority for Australia until 2001. So, I know what I'm talking about if that's what you're asking. O Plameras -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Elementary DNS theory (Was: Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer))
quote who=O Plameras So, I know what I'm talking about if that's what you're asking. Sorry Oscar, we're not asking you, we're telling you: You don't know what you're talking about. Either you manage to so terribly miscommunicate, or there are deep scars of voodoo throughout your knowledge. You've yet to explain to me what's behind plammered.perkypants.org. - Jeff -- Open CeBIT 2007: Sydney, Australia http://www.opencebit.com.au/ MySQL supporters are like people who believe that the moon landings were a hoax. No matter what contrary information they're confronted with, they still consider MySQL to be the best. - ttfkam -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Elementary DNS theory (Was: Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer))
On Thu Dec 07, 2006 at 16:52:21 +1100, O Plameras wrote: Peter Hardy wrote: O Plameras wrote: The authority to associate NAME to ip address has to be propagated up to the ROOT servers. You mean to say that AARNET can do this without the express approval from the owners of 203.7.132.1 ? NO, aarnet.edu.au cannot, otherwise it is against the rules and perhaps against the law. The rest of my responses is implied by the above. I'd strongly suggest you get hold of a good book on DNS, and find out how it works before trying to explain it to anybody else. I found the introductory chapters of DNS and BIND ( http://safari.oreilly.com/0596100574 ) to be most illuminating. I have first, second, and third editions. I have the third edition in front of me. The book covers the technical process. Unfortunately, it does not cover the bureaucratic processes. The processes not covered by the book is the one that I am revealing to you. For example, technically aarnet.edu.au can propagate up to the ROOT Servers. Technically aarnet.edu.au doesn't need to propagate anything up to the ROOT servers. That is not the way DNS works, rather the client contacts the ROOT servers and then goes down from there (ignoring any caching). So really, aarnet.edu.au doesn't need to propagate anything at all. B -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Elementary DNS theory (Was: Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer))
On 12/7/06, Jeff Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: quote who=O Plameras So, I know what I'm talking about if that's what you're asking. Sorry Oscar, we're not asking you, we're telling you: You don't know what you're talking about. Either you manage to so terribly miscommunicate, or there are deep scars of voodoo throughout your knowledge. You've yet to explain to me what's behind plammered.perkypants.org. I hope it's nothing bad - I'd hate to piss the boss off by doing it from work. :-) DaZZa -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Elementary DNS theory (Was: Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer))
Ben Leslie wrote: On Thu Dec 07, 2006 at 16:52:21 +1100, O Plameras wrote: Peter Hardy wrote: O Plameras wrote: The authority to associate NAME to ip address has to be propagated up to the ROOT servers. You mean to say that AARNET can do this without the express approval from the owners of 203.7.132.1 ? NO, aarnet.edu.au cannot, otherwise it is against the rules and perhaps against the law. The rest of my responses is implied by the above. I'd strongly suggest you get hold of a good book on DNS, and find out how it works before trying to explain it to anybody else. I found the introductory chapters of DNS and BIND ( http://safari.oreilly.com/0596100574 ) to be most illuminating. I have first, second, and third editions. I have the third edition in front of me. The book covers the technical process. Unfortunately, it does not cover the bureaucratic processes. The processes not covered by the book is the one that I am revealing to you. For example, technically aarnet.edu.au can propagate up to the ROOT Servers. Technically aarnet.edu.au doesn't need to propagate anything up to the ROOT servers. That is not the way DNS works, rather the client contacts the ROOT servers and then goes down from there (ignoring any caching). So really, aarnet.edu.au doesn't need to propagate anything at all. Do you mean once aarnet.edu.au enters www.example.aarnet.edu.au IN A 203.7.132.1 it will be propagated ? This is wrong. aarnet.edu.au is only a branch in the DNS trees. What does aarnet.edu.au has to do to propagate ? If you can answer this last question correctly then we can proceed with the discussion. O Plameras -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Elementary DNS theory (Was: Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer))
On Thu Dec 07, 2006 at 17:08:37 +1100, O Plameras wrote: So really, aarnet.edu.au doesn't need to propagate anything at all. Do you mean once aarnet.edu.au enters www.example.aarnet.edu.au IN A 203.7.132.1 it will be propagated ? This is wrong. aarnet.edu.au is only a branch in the DNS trees. What does aarnet.edu.au has to do to propagate ? If you can answer this last question correctly then we can proceed with the discussion. There is nothing to propagate! No propagation occurs. Ixnay on the opagationpray. I give up. Benno -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Elementary DNS theory (Was: Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer))
On 07/12/06, O Plameras [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter Hardy wrote: O Plameras wrote: The authority to associate NAME to ip address has to be propagated up to the ROOT servers. You mean to say that AARNET can do this without the express approval from the owners of 203.7.132.1 ? NO, aarnet.edu.au cannot, otherwise it is against the rules and perhaps against the law. What rules? What law? There is nothing, technical or otherwise, preventing anyone with control over a domain name server from putting any type of record under their domain which resolves to any value they like, it happens all the time openly on the net. I'd strongly suggest you get hold of a good book on DNS, and find out how it works before trying to explain it to anybody else. I found the introductory chapters of DNS and BIND ( http://safari.oreilly.com/0596100574 ) to be most illuminating. I have first, second, and third editions. I have the third edition in front of me. You have all these books and still didn't get something I could understand from reading the RFC's as a young programmer fresh out of high school? The book covers the technical process. Unfortunately, it does not cover the bureaucratic processes. The processes not covered by the book is the one that I am revealing to you. The technical process is what matters here. bind isn't going to send cops to arrest you if it finds that you created an A record from your domain which points to an IP address which isn't under your control and for that matter, even if the cops DO come knocking at your door there is no law according to which they can charge you of any wrongdoing. How do you think dyndns and no-ip.org work? Another question - what would be the rational for a limitation such as you describe? For example, technically aarnet.edu.au can propagate up to the ROOT Servers. But the bureaucratic process requires this has to be with the approval of the owners of the public ip address others this will not happen. A friend of mine created an A record for my static IP address (issued to me by my ISP) from his private domain. That name was (for the sake of this discussion) xxx.bard.org.il. It still resolves to that (no longer relevant) IP address today and trace-routing to the xxx.bard.org.il will correctly reach some place which probably inherited my static IP address after I left that ISP. REVERSE mapping won't work because the ISP is the only one with control over the .in-addr.arpa sub-domain for the network block assigned to it. Maybe I could ask them nicely to add another PTR record from that IP address back to xxx.bard.org.il but it's at their discretion to decide whether they like the colour of my eyes or the font on my fax and do it or not. No laws or IETF rules involved here. Anyway, can you explain how you do this ? The book on DNS and BIND will not get you anywhere if that's all you will rely on. It will get you everywhere. No need for any beaurocracy. I made my living (very good living) until I retire doing Domain Name and IP address Administration back during the days when munnari.oz was the authority for Australia until 2001. So, I know what I'm talking about if that's what you're asking. And I edited zone files of a major university already back in 1991, so what? Things change. Maybe you want to refresh your memory. Just please give a concrete pointer to substantiate your claims because so far it seems your are outnumbered 2-1. Cheers, --P -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Elementary DNS theory (Was: Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer))
DaZZa wrote: On 12/7/06, Jeff Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: quote who=O Plameras So, I know what I'm talking about if that's what you're asking. Sorry Oscar, we're not asking you, we're telling you: You don't know what you're talking about. Either you manage to so terribly miscommunicate, or there are deep scars of voodoo throughout your knowledge. You've yet to explain to me what's behind plammered.perkypants.org. I hope it's nothing bad - I'd hate to piss the boss off by doing it from work. :-) Hi Dazza, Sorry, I have not received the post you are responding. I am not responding to your post but the Jeff Waugh's post requires a respond from me. Jeff Waugh is a person who does not know to argue on the merits of arguments. So, what does he do ? He reverts to insults and abuse. I'm not going to be sucked into this again, never. Jeff Waugh has threatened me off list before but I did not allow him to. So, he use insults and abuses. O Plameras -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Elementary DNS theory (Was: Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer))
On 07/12/06, O Plameras [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DaZZa wrote: On 12/7/06, Jeff Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: quote who=O Plameras So, I know what I'm talking about if that's what you're asking. Sorry Oscar, we're not asking you, we're telling you: You don't know what you're talking about. Either you manage to so terribly miscommunicate, or there are deep scars of voodoo throughout your knowledge. You've yet to explain to me what's behind plammered.perkypants.org. I hope it's nothing bad - I'd hate to piss the boss off by doing it from work. :-) Hi Dazza, Sorry, I have not received the post you are responding. I am not responding to your post but the Jeff Waugh's post requires a respond from me. Jeff Waugh is a person who does not know to argue on the merits of arguments. So, what does he do ? He reverts to insults and abuse. I'm not going to be sucked into this again, never. Jeff Waugh has threatened me off list before but I did not allow him to. So, he use insults and abuses. Here is what's behind the host Jeff is asking about: $ dig plammered.perkypants.org ; DiG 9.3.2-P1 plammered.perkypants.org ;; global options: printcmd ;; Got answer: ;; -HEADER- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 45825 ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 2, ADDITIONAL: 2 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;plammered.perkypants.org. IN A ;; ANSWER SECTION: plammered.perkypants.org. 86400 IN A 203.122.110.35 ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: perkypants.org. 58427 IN NS node.waugh.id.au. perkypants.org. 58427 IN NS spoon.solutionsfirst.com.au. ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION: node.waugh.id.au. 49784 IN A 70.85.31.216 spoon.solutionsfirst.com.au. 6179 INA 61.8.3.181 ;; Query time: 187 msec ;; SERVER: 211.29.132.12#53(211.29.132.12) ;; WHEN: Thu Dec 7 17:19:19 2006 ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 159 All Jeff did was to give a concrete example which should contradict your claim. You said that this (pointing to 203.122.110.35 from perkypants.org) is against some rules or law. Jeff did it. The record he gives resolves correctly for me (though I don't see a web site on the standard port on that address). If he broke some rules or law (as you claim) - what's going to happen to him now? Cheers, --P -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Elementary DNS theory (Was: Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer))
quote who=DaZZa You've yet to explain to me what's behind plammered.perkypants.org. I hope it's nothing bad - I'd hate to piss the boss off by doing it from work. :-) It resolves to the IP address Oscar is posting from (which just happens to have an ssh server running on it). So, were his theories correct, I would not be able to set up plammered.perkypants.org to resolve to an IP address in his ISP's network range. I have no idea how he got that impression at all, but he has yet to explain it, or plammered.perkypants.org. So I guess we just wait for him to figure things out for himself again. :-) - Jeff -- linux.conf.au 2007: Sydney, Australia http://lca2007.linux.org.au/ One in 10 Europeans is allegedly conceived in an Ikea bed. - BBC News, 2005 -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Elementary DNS theory (Was: Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer))
On 12/7/06, O Plameras [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DaZZa wrote: On 12/7/06, Jeff Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: quote who=O Plameras So, I know what I'm talking about if that's what you're asking. Sorry Oscar, we're not asking you, we're telling you: You don't know what you're talking about. Either you manage to so terribly miscommunicate, or there are deep scars of voodoo throughout your knowledge. You've yet to explain to me what's behind plammered.perkypants.org. I hope it's nothing bad - I'd hate to piss the boss off by doing it from work. :-) Hi Dazza, Sorry, I have not received the post you are responding. I am not responding to your post but the Jeff Waugh's post requires a respond from me. Jeff Waugh is a person who does not know to argue on the merits of arguments. So, what does he do ? He reverts to insults and abuse. I'm not going to be sucked into this again, never. Jeff Waugh has threatened me off list before but I did not allow him to. So, he use insults and abuses. Oscar. As much as I've had my differences with Jeff in the past, and whatever as my personal opinion of him may be or not be, I can't find a single thing in his emails which I would classify as insults or abuse. He asked you a question, as a demonstrative response to a statement made by yourself which is plainly wrong. You haven't answered him. Hell, you haven't answered anyone's comments except to claim you managed DNS's for years and know what you're doing. You plainly don't understand how DNS works. I don't know if you did in the days when you claim to have managed multiple DNS servers before you retired, but you sure don't understand it now. Read what everyone else is saying in response to your ridiculous claims before you accuse Jeff of abusing you. DaZZa -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Elementary DNS theory (Was: Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer))
On 12/7/06, Jeff Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: quote who=DaZZa You've yet to explain to me what's behind plammered.perkypants.org. I hope it's nothing bad - I'd hate to piss the boss off by doing it from work. :-) It resolves to the IP address Oscar is posting from (which just happens to have an ssh server running on it). So, were his theories correct, I would not be able to set up plammered.perkypants.org to resolve to an IP address in his ISP's network range. I have no idea how he got that impression at all, but he has yet to explain it, or plammered.perkypants.org. So I guess we just wait for him to figure things out for himself again. :-) Ahhh, that's OK then. Just as long as I don't have some big bad lawyer banging on the door demanding to know why I was trying to hack their system. :-) DaZZa -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] How the Internet Works for Dummies [Was: Why DHCP ?]
Jeff Waugh wrote: quote who=O Plameras The authority to associate NAME to ip address has to be propagated up to the ROOT servers. You mean to say that AARNET can do this without the express approval from the owners of 203.7.132.1 ? NO, aarnet.edu.au cannot, otherwise it is against the rules and perhaps against the law. The rest of my responses is implied by the above. Oscar, can you ssh to plammered.perkypants.org and tell me what you find? I can't ssh to it, neither can I connect to it. O Plameras -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Elementary DNS theory (Was: Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer))
O Plameras wrote: Ben Leslie wrote: On Thu Dec 07, 2006 at 16:52:21 +1100, O Plameras wrote: *snip* I have first, second, and third editions. I have the third edition in front of me. The book covers the technical process. Unfortunately, it does not cover the bureaucratic processes. The processes not covered by the book is the one that I am revealing to you. For example, technically aarnet.edu.au can propagate up to the ROOT Servers. Technically aarnet.edu.au doesn't need to propagate anything up to the ROOT servers. That is not the way DNS works, rather the client contacts the ROOT servers and then goes down from there (ignoring any caching). So really, aarnet.edu.au doesn't need to propagate anything at all. Do you mean once aarnet.edu.au enters www.example.aarnet.edu.au IN A 203.7.132.1 it will be propagated ? This is wrong. aarnet.edu.au is only a branch in the DNS trees. What does aarnet.edu.au has to do to propagate ? If you can answer this last question correctly then we can proceed with the discussion. How does a query propagate? Well, to paraphrase Section 2.6.2 of that book that's right in front of you(*): - The local nameserver gets a request for www.example.aarnet.edu.au. It doesn't know where this is, but it does know where all the root nameservers are. So it picks one of those and asks it. - The root nameserver says, no, I have no idea where www.example.aarnet.edu.au is. But I do have this list of nameservers that are authoritative for the .au domain, maybe one of them can help you. The local nameserver picks one, and sends the query for www.example.aarnet.edu.au to it. - The .au nameserver says, no, I have no idea where www.example.aarnet.edu.au is. But I do have this list of nameservers that are authoritative for the edu.au domain, maybe one of them can help you. The local nameserver picks one, and sends the query for www.example.aarnet.edu.au to it. - The edu.au nameserver says, no, I have no idea where www.example.aarnet.edu.au is. But I do have this list of nameservers that are authoritative for the aarnet.edu.au domain, maybe one of them can help you. The local nameserver picks one, and sends the query for www.example.aarnet.edu.au to it. Do you see where this is going? The query keeps propagating down different levels until it finally hits a server who says Ooo! I *know* this one! and replies. It sounds like a lot of traffic, but the local nameserver also caches all of those replies it got along the way to resolving that query. So if the next query it gets is for, say, www.monash.edu.au, the local nameserver will say I don't know where that is, but I've already got this list of .edu.au nameservers that is still fresh in my cache, I'll ask one of those. In a perfect world, the root servers wouldn't get that much traffic at all, really, thanks to caching. But there's a *lot* of poorly configured nameservers out there. http://www.bind9.net/dnshealth/ makes the claim that 98% of queries to the root servers are unnecessary, and is full of lots of other interesting DNS-related factoids. Anyway, the point of all of this is, *all* of the propagation in DNS happens downwards. The root nameservers seriously don't know the first thing about subdomains of aarnet.edu.au, and you can verify this by sending a non-recursive query to one (using the +norecurse option to dig, for example). Not only do they not know whether a particular subdomain exists, they really don't care whether the object it resolves to (not all DNS records are IP addresses...) belongs to the domain owner, or Dexter Plameras, or whether it even exists on the public Internet at all. I desperately hope this clears up any misunderstandings. * I have the fourth edition. May be slightly different for others. Cheers, -- Pete -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Obtaining Ubuntu DVD
On Mon, 4 Dec 2006, Dimitri Koussa wrote: On 22:09 Mon 04 Dec 06, Jeff Waugh spake thusly: quote who=Dimitri Koussa Does anyone know where I can obtain an Ubuntu install DVD? Your best bet is to download and burn one (or find someone to download and burn one for you). I was hoping it wouldn't come to that. I have to pay ~5.5 cents/Mb here at USyd so that's $175 for the DVD...I guess I'll start emailing my friends asking if they've got some bandwidth they can spare. Unless...does anyone have the DVD? I will pay for or replace the DVD and can go pick it up (if close to city). As far as I knew there was only the CD version? We're selling it for $16.00 and you can pick it up, because of our sale we're opening Thursday nights till 7pm and Sat 10-12. Unit B6, 27-29 Fariola St, Silverwater. Jump on a 525 bus from Strathfield or Parramatta. I've got Ubuntu desktop/server for x86, x86-64, PPC and just today I've collected Xubuntu mainly because I wanted it for CompuberBank - more on that later. -- ---GRiP--- Grant Parnell - SLUG President LPIC-1 certified engineer EverythingLinux services - the consultant's backup tech support. Web: http://www.elx.com.au/support.php We're also busybits.com.au and linuxhelp.com.au and everythinglinux.com.au. Phone 02 8756 3522 to book service or discuss your needs or email us at paidsupport at elx.com.au ELX or its employees participate in the following:- OSIA (Open Source Industry Australia) - http://www.osia.net.au AUUG (Australian Unix Users Group) - http://www.auug.org.au SLUG (Sydney Linux Users Group) - http://www.slug.org.au LA (Linux Australia) - http://www.linux.org.au -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Elementary DNS theory (Was: Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer))
Penedo wrote: On 07/12/06, O Plameras [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter Hardy wrote: O Plameras wrote: The authority to associate NAME to ip address has to be propagated up to the ROOT servers. You mean to say that AARNET can do this without the express approval from the owners of 203.7.132.1 ? NO, aarnet.edu.au cannot, otherwise it is against the rules and perhaps against the law. What rules? What law? There is nothing, technical or otherwise, preventing anyone with control over a domain name server from putting any type of record under their domain which resolves to any value they like, it happens all the time openly on the net. I'd strongly suggest you get hold of a good book on DNS, and find out how it works before trying to explain it to anybody else. I found the introductory chapters of DNS and BIND ( http://safari.oreilly.com/0596100574 ) to be most illuminating. I have first, second, and third editions. I have the third edition in front of me. You have all these books and still didn't get something I could understand from reading the RFC's as a young programmer fresh out of high school? The book covers the technical process. Unfortunately, it does not cover the bureaucratic processes. The processes not covered by the book is the one that I am revealing to you. The technical process is what matters here. bind isn't going to send cops to arrest you if it finds that you created an A record from your domain which points to an IP address which isn't under your control and for that matter, even if the cops DO come knocking at your door there is no law according to which they can charge you of any wrongdoing. How do you think dyndns and no-ip.org work? Another question - what would be the rational for a limitation such as you describe? For example, technically aarnet.edu.au can propagate up to the ROOT Servers. But the bureaucratic process requires this has to be with the approval of the owners of the public ip address others this will not happen. A friend of mine created an A record for my static IP address (issued to me by my ISP) from his private domain. That name was (for the sake of this discussion) xxx.bard.org.il. It still resolves to that (no longer relevant) IP address today and trace-routing to the xxx.bard.org.il will correctly reach some place which probably inherited my static IP address after I left that ISP. REVERSE mapping won't work because the ISP is the only one with control over the .in-addr.arpa sub-domain for the network block assigned to it. Maybe I could ask them nicely to add another PTR record from that IP address back to xxx.bard.org.il but it's at their discretion to decide whether they like the colour of my eyes or the font on my fax and do it or not. No laws or IETF rules involved here. Anyway, can you explain how you do this ? The book on DNS and BIND will not get you anywhere if that's all you will rely on. It will get you everywhere. No need for any beaurocracy. I made my living (very good living) until I retire doing Domain Name and IP address Administration back during the days when munnari.oz was the authority for Australia until 2001. So, I know what I'm talking about if that's what you're asking. And I edited zone files of a major university already back in 1991, so what? Things change. Maybe you want to refresh your memory. Just please give a concrete pointer to substantiate your claims because so far it seems your are outnumbered 2-1. Because you don't understand that to be authoritative it involves technical as well as bureaucratice processes. You only know the technical aspect of it. The technical aspect of the job is the easiest. If everybody can be authoritative by doing what J Waugh had done there will be chaos on the internet. The whole point: perkypants.org is not authoritative for plammered.perkypants.org. I know how he does this. But fortunately, perkypants.org cannot make a commercial proposition out of these activities. If perkypants.org makes money by using someone else public ip address without authority this is stealing. Again, just because you can, you do. Just as because you can hack someones Server you do. Plameras -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Elementary DNS theory (Was: Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer))
On Thu, Dec 07, 2006 at 06:04:03PM +1100, O Plameras wrote: Plameras Hi all, This thread is done! Any further posts to the list on this thread by 18.20 today will put the list into full moderation mode for the next 3 days. Your friendly list admins, SLUG committee -- http://slug.org.au/ (Sydney Linux Users Group) http://lca2007.linux.org.au/ (linux.conf.au 2007) http://holmwood.id.au/~lindsay/ (me) -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Elementary DNS theory (Was: Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer))
Peter Hardy wrote: O Plameras wrote: Ben Leslie wrote: On Thu Dec 07, 2006 at 16:52:21 +1100, O Plameras wrote: *snip* I have first, second, and third editions. I have the third edition in front of me. The book covers the technical process. Unfortunately, it does not cover the bureaucratic processes. The processes not covered by the book is the one that I am revealing to you. For example, technically aarnet.edu.au can propagate up to the ROOT Servers. Technically aarnet.edu.au doesn't need to propagate anything up to the ROOT servers. That is not the way DNS works, rather the client contacts the ROOT servers and then goes down from there (ignoring any caching). So really, aarnet.edu.au doesn't need to propagate anything at all. Do you mean once aarnet.edu.au enters www.example.aarnet.edu.au IN A 203.7.132.1 it will be propagated ? This is wrong. aarnet.edu.au is only a branch in the DNS trees. What does aarnet.edu.au has to do to propagate ? If you can answer this last question correctly then we can proceed with the discussion. How does a query propagate? Well, to paraphrase Section 2.6.2 of that book that's right in front of you(*): The KEYWORD here is authority as I explained in one previous post. O Plameras -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Re: [LINK] Video: DET considers Linux on the desktop
At 09:04 AM 7/12/2006, Howard Lowndes wrote: http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/software/soa/Video_DET_considers_Linux_on_the_desktop/0,130061733,339272567,00.htm?feed=rss The NSW Department of Education and Training (DET) may increase the penetration of Linux on its 165,000 desktop fleet because open source is clearly an industry trend. Yeah I guess Windows was a trend too. Gotta sway with the trends! -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Elementary DNS theory (Was: Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer))
On Thu Dec 07, 2006 at 18:04:03 +1100, O Plameras wrote: Penedo wrote: On 07/12/06, O Plameras [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Because you don't understand that to be authoritative it involves technical as well as bureaucratice processes. You only know the technical aspect of it. The technical aspect of the job is the easiest. Please tell me the bureaucratic process. A link to some site explaining it. People set up nameservers and names all the time, it must be published somewhere. Please enlighten us! If everybody can be authoritative by doing what J Waugh had done there will be chaos on the internet. CHAOS ON THE INTERNET! SNAKES ON A PLANE ! But seriously, the internet is like this, and it seems to work reasonably well. The whole point: perkypants.org is not authoritative for plammered.perkypants.org. I know how he does this. Yes it is that is the whole point. The nameserver that is associated with perkypants.org is authoritative for plammered.perkypants.org Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain_name_system) explains this quite well. Ok, lets just turn this all around, if Jeff's nameserver is *not* authoritative for plammered.perkypants.org please tell me which server is. But fortunately, perkypants.org cannot make a commercial proposition out of these activities. If perkypants.org makes money by using someone else public ip address without authority this is stealing. I'm not sure where money came into this. How / why would Jeff be making a commercial proposition out of these activities? Again, just because you can, you do. Just as because you can hack someones Server you do. I don't. You might. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Proposed ComputerBank's AGM
Hi, I'm doing my best to get all the people involved in ComputerBank in this state at least talking to each other. I know a lot of SLUG people have been interested in the past and it's the only reason I'm CCing that mailing list. Followups may be discussed off or on the SLUG list but I request you CC the [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list too. To limit SPAM it's a members only posting thing but I'll approve relevant stuff. One of the things we badly need to do is organise an AGM for ComputerBank NSW and also ComputerBank Sydney. I am putting forward by way of suggestion some dates to hold these AGM's - Sunday the 24th of December or Saturday the 30th December or Sat/Sun 6 7th of January or perhaps after the close of LCA on the 20th of January at UNSW. Venues: My place at Concord for a BBQ, ELX Silverwater (as I have said I'll open up computerbank on 6th 7th - but that's not yet confirmed). Other suggestions? Picnic venue, beaches, Clubs whatever. Geoff, hopefully I haven't overstepped here in organising this but I vaguely recall you suggesting I organise a time and a place for a meeting. -- ---GRiP--- Grant Parnell - senior LPIC-1 certified consultant Linux User #281066 at http://counter.li.org (Linux Counter) EverythingLinux services - the consultant's backup tech support. Web: http://www.everythinglinux.com.au/support.php We're also busybits.com.au and linuxhelp.com.au and elx.com.au. Phone 02 8756 3522 to book service or discuss your needs. ELX or its employees participate in the following:- OSIA (Open Source Industry Australia) - http://www.osia.net.au AUUG (Australian Unix Users Group) - http://www.auug.org.au SLUG (Sydney Linux Users Group) - http://www.slug.org.au LA (Linux Australia) - http://www.linux.org.au -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
