Re: [SLUG] Re: Article, Linux, APC

[Erik de Castro Lopo]

James Linder wrote:

> I agree but I wonder if the ethical argument does not transend reality ...

What? Ethical arguments are orthogonal to reality.

> To what extent do most users *know* that they are using linux? /proc
> /sys /dev/shm lmsensors come to mind, the rest is GNU or GPL.

There is about the same about of BSD and X11 license stuff as
GPL/LGPL in a normal Linux distro.

> I've had people - say my mother in law - using a desktop machine, here,
> completely oblivious to linux powering their way.

How does that contribute to any argument you are trying to make?
 
> I bought an iMac to run linux, linux ran terribly on it!

So why did you buy an iMac to begin with?

> I am now running OSX with my normal compliment of GNU/GPL apps
> and my desktop looks very similar to the dozen linux-only machines.

You paid money to Apple, the profit portion of which they will
use to further the cause of Apple. The cause of Apple is in
direct conflict with the causes of freedom, Linux and FOSS.

Eri
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[SLUG] Re: Article, Linux, APC

[James Linder]

On 24/06/2011, at 8:58 AM, slug-requ...@slug.org.au wrote:

> Where to start??
> 
> I have to agree with Erik De here (thanks for clarifying the real ground on 
> which the argument stands, Erik.) and will extend the argument too.
> 
> This article reminds me that there are 'Alan Jones' types all around the 
> world and in all kinds of media and it generally cheapens the field.
> 
> They take something, extract a small part and then blow it out of proportion, 
> decontexualise it, hide the history and political elements to their claims 
> and all along position themselves as the voice of reason and balance. Jones 
> is a classic example of this type of "journalism" and this article appears to 
> be a classic example of that type of "journalism" as well.
> 
> For a great many people, GNU/Linux is an expression of a particular form of 
> ethics. If you fail to generally accept those ethics then it's no surprise 
> that swapping backwards and forwards between OSs would be seen as a 
> reasonable thing to do.
> 
> I can't say that I adhere to the same level of commitment that RMS has, but I 
> at least aim in the same direction.
> 
> To summarise my machine - it all works brilliantly well for multi-media 
> editing (of a not particularly simple level) and I can hunt around for the 
> best hardware at the best prices.
> 
> It would appear to me that if you GNU/Linux fits your ethical position on the 
> world then OSs which do not meet the same ethical standards would not be 
> something you would consider for the great majority (if any) of your needs.
> 
> As someone who considers the general GNU/Linux ethical argument (as espoused 
> by RMS) I'm not in a position to merely swap when the whim takes me as it 
> would mean going counter to an ethical position I accept as being a part of 
> my own.
> 
> Speaking personally, I'd rather contribute to an OS which has a 
> community-orientation (not which has a *community* which is kept like serfs), 
> which is made available to the world as freely as possible and which attempts 
> to maintain my freedom of choice, access, use and ownership.

Patrick
I agree but I wonder if the ethical argument does not transend reality ...
To what extent do most users *know* that they are using linux? /proc /sys 
/dev/shm lmsensors come to mind, the rest is GNU or GPL.
I've had people - say my mother in law - using a desktop machine, here, 
completely oblivious to linux powering their way.

I bought an iMac to run linux, linux ran terribly on it! I am now running OSX 
with my normal compliment of GNU/GPL apps and my desktop looks very similar to 
the dozen linux-only machines.

EG years of frustration with evolution and kmail are quelled by this mailer, 
whose single vice is the bluddy-picture (I think it is gone now). I'm too old 
to stand in the rain with a placard, I just want it to work (tm), Not that I 
can't or don't admire those who do stand in the rain

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Re: [SLUG] Article, Linux, APC.

[David Lyon]

I'm employed as an IT Manager.

Heterogeneous environments with Linux and Windows are perfectly acceptable
these days.

With Android pads coming onto the market, it's reason to have even less
Windows machines.

Modern Linux is perfectly robust and it all works like a charm so I don't
mind taking on
the responsibility for that.

On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 10:27 AM, Kevin Shackleton
wrote:

> But they do  - employers do pay you to use MS, otherwise their IT manager
> might have to shoulder some responsibility. Kevin
> On 24/06/2011 6:24 AM, "David Lyon" 
> wrote:
> > and late model Ubuntu releases run very nicely on 8 core machines...
> >
> > somebody would have to pay me to accept windows over ubuntu..
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 8:21 AM, Jeremy Visser 
> wrote:
> >
> >> David Lyon said:
> >> > The computers 'to-die-for' now, are no longer the Windows machines
> >> > but the Android and Apple computers.
> >> >
> >> > Clearly, they both are Linux derivates.
> >>
> >> ...
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Re: [SLUG] Is Linux Dead a worthy Debate for a SLUG meeting?

[Piers Rowan]

On 24/06/11 07:43, David Lyon wrote:


Occassionaly you'd see changes in face expression..


Piers likes this.
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Re: [SLUG] Article, Linux, APC.

[Kevin Shackleton]

But they do  - employers do pay you to use MS, otherwise their IT manager
might have to shoulder some responsibility. Kevin
On 24/06/2011 6:24 AM, "David Lyon"  wrote:
> and late model Ubuntu releases run very nicely on 8 core machines...
>
> somebody would have to pay me to accept windows over ubuntu..
>
> On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 8:21 AM, Jeremy Visser  wrote:
>
>> David Lyon said:
>> > The computers 'to-die-for' now, are no longer the Windows machines
>> > but the Android and Apple computers.
>> >
>> > Clearly, they both are Linux derivates.
>>
>> ...
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>>
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Re: [SLUG] Is Linux Dead a worthy Debate for a SLUG meeting?

[Marghanita da Cruz]

Adrian Chadd wrote:

Everything quoted so far leverages free software. "Linux" is a small
part of it.

I think the GCC developers may be a bit peeved if all the credit went
to Linux rather than them (and the Redhat backing it in the past); similarly
with LLVM and all the open contributions being made there. (Yes, that
includes by Apple.)

It doesn't matter whether Linux dies or not (for value of "die"), IMHO
what matters is that all the free software that makes a useful system
useful is still there and ticking along.



However, the issue is which fork or even distro to invest both time and 
money. Ubuntu made Gnome and killed KDE (via Knoppix), for me at least. 
Redhat is Fedora. Simon recently suggested a Gnome Fork



Yeah Ubiquity is a dog.  I've found Gnome3's shell achieves what Unity aims
for a bit better in the netbook environment. But on my desktops, I've
reverted to "Gnome Classic".  I see an Ubuntu fork coming, and I'll be
taking the exit!

,

Though perhaps Linux is dead ...

Tugger the SLUGger!SLUG Mailing List Archives
Browsing the lists



Optimized for Standards.
Linux is a trademark of Linus Torvalds. 



Marghanita
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Re: [SLUG] Article, Linux, APC.

[David Lyon]

and late model Ubuntu releases run very nicely on 8 core machines...

somebody would have to pay me to accept windows over ubuntu..

On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 8:21 AM, Jeremy Visser  wrote:

> David Lyon said:
> > The computers 'to-die-for' now, are no longer the Windows machines
> > but the Android and Apple computers.
> >
> > Clearly, they both are Linux derivates.
>
> ...
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Re: [SLUG] Article, Linux, APC.

[Jeremy Visser]

David Lyon said:
> The computers 'to-die-for' now, are no longer the Windows machines
> but the Android and Apple computers.
> 
> Clearly, they both are Linux derivates.

...
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Re: [SLUG] Is Linux Dead a worthy Debate for a SLUG meeting?

[David Lyon]

Hi Patrick,

You know if everybody brought their teenage children (with their android
phones)
they'd all be sitting there in silence (apart from the sound of electronic
bing and ding)
and the whole thing could be done as a facebook chat..

Occassionaly you'd see changes in face expression..

David
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Re: [SLUG] Kogan Agora Laptop Better with Classic Interface and Flash Disk

[elliott-brennan]

Hi Tom,

Interesting review and one worth reading.

I had been looking at the Kogan books out of 
interest (I'm not in the market for a new machine 
but am always curious :))


It's a pity you're so far from Sydney otherwise we 
could have got you to bring it in :)


Regards,

Patrick


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Re: [SLUG] Re: Article, Linux, APC.

[Graham Smith]

On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 20:53:23 elliott-brennan wrote:
> Where to start??
> 
> I have to agree with Erik De here (thanks for
> clarifying the real ground on which the argument
> stands, Erik.) and will extend the argument too.
> 
> This article reminds me that there are 'Alan
> Jones' types all around the world and in all kinds
> of media and it generally cheapens the field.
> 
> They take something, extract a small part and then
> blow it out of proportion, decontexualise it, hide
> the history and political elements to their claims
> and all along position themselves as the voice of
> reason and balance. Jones is a classic example of
> this type of "journalism" and this article appears
> to be a classic example of that type of
> "journalism" as well.

I have not read the article in question but I would agree with the above 
comments. For instance which Operating System dominates the Supercomputers? If 
you take a look you might be surprised.

Operating system Family share for 06/2011
http://top500.org/stats/list/37/osfam

I think the only area Linux has "failed" is in the desktop but no one really 
knows the stats in this area because of the way Microsoft exerts undue 
influence upon the PC manufactures. i.e. The Microsoft Tax

In the server area Linux holds its own along with the embedded market.

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Re: [SLUG] Is Linux Dead a worthy Debate for a SLUG meeting?

[elliott-brennan]

I'm not sure, Marghanita.

It would be really interesting if it were by way 
of a debate with standing rules etc and people 
chosen to argue a position regardless of their 
personal view.


If it were merely a 'discussion' then I just see 
it as feeding the trolls and looking silly for 
reacting to them :)


Regards,

Patrick

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[SLUG] Re: Article, Linux, APC.

[elliott-brennan]

Where to start??

I have to agree with Erik De here (thanks for 
clarifying the real ground on which the argument 
stands, Erik.) and will extend the argument too.


This article reminds me that there are 'Alan 
Jones' types all around the world and in all kinds 
of media and it generally cheapens the field.


They take something, extract a small part and then 
blow it out of proportion, decontexualise it, hide 
the history and political elements to their claims 
and all along position themselves as the voice of 
reason and balance. Jones is a classic example of 
this type of "journalism" and this article appears 
to be a classic example of that type of 
"journalism" as well.


For a great many people, GNU/Linux is an 
expression of a particular form of ethics. If you 
fail to generally accept those ethics then it's no 
surprise that swapping backwards and forwards 
between OSs would be seen as a reasonable thing to do.


I can't say that I adhere to the same level of 
commitment that RMS has, but I at least aim in the 
same direction.


To summarise my machine - it all works brilliantly 
well for multi-media editing (of a not 
particularly simple level) and I can hunt around 
for the best hardware at the best prices.


It would appear to me that if you GNU/Linux fits 
your ethical position on the world then OSs which 
do not meet the same ethical standards would not 
be something you would consider for the great 
majority (if any) of your needs.


As someone who considers the general GNU/Linux 
ethical argument (as espoused by RMS) I'm not in a 
position to merely swap when the whim takes me as 
it would mean going counter to an ethical position 
I accept as being a part of my own.


Speaking personally, I'd rather contribute to an 
OS which has a community-orientation (not which 
has a *community* which is kept like serfs), which 
is made available to the world as freely as 
possible and which attempts to maintain my freedom 
of choice, access, use and ownership.


Regards,

Patrick
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[SLUG] Live streaming from SLUG - this month (24th June)! - Lightning Talks

[Tim Ansell]

Hello everyone,

This week we will again be trialing live streaming of SLUG! We have
successfully streamed both FP-Syd and SyPy using this set up, so I'm hoping
it'll be fairly stable. We will also be uploading videos of the talk to
YouTube shortly after the event (my goal is to have them up by the time I
leave the pub) at the
GoogleFOSSSydneychannel. A
big thank you goes to Orion
VM  who are providing the machine which is doing the
live encoding.

Streaming will start from 6pm Australian Eastern Standard Time (check the
time in your local timezone
here)
at the
following URL;

http://tims-video.appspot.com/slug

The system supports HTML5 (H264, Ogg Theora and WebM) and Flash streaming,
this should cover most desktop browsers. The system does not support mobile
systems yet (which includes the iPad), it might work, but it's *more likely
it won't*.

The system has twitter and IRC integration, so tweet with the
#sydlug hashtag,
and join the irc://irc.freenode.org/#slug IRC channel. If you are in the
room and want to join the online chatting, you can use
http://tims-video.appspot.com/slug

As the system is now significantly more stable, please *feel free to forward
this email* to anyone who might be interested.


If you have other problems like the sound being quiet or the display being
wrong in anyway, or if you can't get the stream to work, *please send me an
email* with the following details;

   - Browser Type (Chrome, Safari, IE, etc)
   - Exact Browser Version (a screenshot of the about page would be
   awesome!)
   - Operating System - as much detail as possible (IE Ubuntu Lucid 64bit)
   - The speed and type of Internet connection you have. (IE ADSL, Cable,
   ADSL2 and 256k, 6M). You can find this information in your ADSL model.
   - Please go to  http://www.speedtest.net/ and send me the numbers the
   widget reports.
   - Anything else you think is important.

Tim 'mithro' Ansell
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[SLUG] July 7th: "Python on Wall St: A fairy tale in three parts" - Simon Burton

[Dylan Jay]

SyPy: Sydney Python Users group meetup

Where does python fit in a world where microseconds count?
I will talk a little bit about electronic trading, history and  
philosophy. Then onto the anatomy of an algorithmic trade shop with  
perhaps a live demo. Python finds use in rapid prototyping (of  
course), GUI and forensics/data analysis.


About the speaker(s):
Simon Burton has been working in the US finance industry for about  
five years, his specialty is high frequency trading. Prior to that he  
worked in machine learning at an australian research lab.

He has a long commute.


*RSVP: Please RSVP so we have an idea of numbers*

   http://sypy2011jul.eventbrite.com/

6:15: Arrive - nibbles supplied by Google Australia
6:30: Lightning talks (email me, or just bring a 5min talk along)
6:45: Main talk + questions - see above
7:30 Social networking and beers and dinner at the Pyrmont Bridge Hotel.

Getting There: See the event page for details
Free free to join us at the pub after/instead.
If have any problems call Dylan Jay on 0421477460


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Technical Solutions Manager
PretaWeb: reducing duplication in the government web.
P: +612 80819071 | M: +61421477460 | twitter.com/djay75 | linkedin.com/ 
in/djay75


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[SLUG] Planet SLUG is down?

[Sridhar Dhanapalan]

http://planet.slug.org.au/ takes me to a Google error page...



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