Re: [SLUG] Linux Traineeships?
Blindraven wrote: Is there such a thing as a job that'd be willing to put someone through the starter ropes with Linux in a Junior SysAdmin role and whiz them of to places for certifications? (or not?) Is this more of a dream then a reality? there is this program: http://www.intact.act.gov.au/recruitment/traineeships/ I've heard time and time again people say employers prefer attitude and willingness to learn then a piece of paper, But is this just elitist fluff? One of the Junior roles I tried for quite some time ago in the city was one of the most depressing wank-shop's I've ever had the misfortune of embarrassing myself in, since this interview I've just been to self concious to bother applying for anything else. Does anybody have any advice on good places to look for these types of roles? I'm talking novice/intermediate every.day administration, comfortable with bare CLI etc. Appreciated, T. -- None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. -- Marghanita da Cruz http://www.ramin.com.au Phone: (+61)0414 869202 -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Linux Traineeships?
Is there such a thing as a job that'd be willing to put someone through the starter ropes with Linux in a Junior SysAdmin role and whiz them of to places for certifications? (or not?) Is this more of a dream then a reality? I've heard time and time again people say employers prefer attitude and willingness to learn then a piece of paper, But is this just elitist fluff? One of the Junior roles I tried for quite some time ago in the city was one of the most depressing wank-shop's I've ever had the misfortune of embarrassing myself in, since this interview I've just been to self concious to bother applying for anything else. Does anybody have any advice on good places to look for these types of roles? I'm talking novice/intermediate every.day administration, comfortable with bare CLI etc. Appreciated, T. -- None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Linux Traineeships?
2009/1/6 Blindraven blindra...@gmail.com: Is there such a thing as a job that'd be willing to put someone through the starter ropes with Linux in a Junior SysAdmin role and whiz them of to places for certifications? (or not?) Is this more of a dream then a reality? Sorry. Can't help you on that one. I've heard time and time again people say employers prefer attitude and willingness to learn then a piece of paper, But is this just elitist fluff? As an employer, back when we were looking for a sysadmin we certainly valued self-learners and people who are enthusiastic about the technology much more than those who could only show that they went through the motions and got the stamp to show that they know how to answer questions in a uni exam, and will treat the position as a pure 9-5 day job (not that I want to over-employ my workers but I want not to have to do all the thinking and problem-solving for them). This doesn't mean I totally discard good papers. e.g. from what I heard about the RedHat certification it sounds like something which actually proves that someone knows their stuff (it has two separate hands-on exams with high pass mark). They'd still have to show me that they can come up with on-the-spot solutions for real-life situations, to prove that they can think on their feet. Same with uni degrees - they aren't a requirement in my view but couldn't hurt. Does anybody have any advice on good places to look for these types of roles? I'm talking novice/intermediate every.day administration, comfortable with bare CLI etc. I don't know how much it helps you but try maybe finding a sourceforge/Google-Code/other open source project you can contribute to (maybe help maintain servers for a free project such as wikipedia/debian/centos). Good system admins also need to know/understand programming so it would help your resume if you could show that you took part in open source projects, and what contribution you made. There are tons of perl/shell-scripting opportunities. Also you can/should set yourself system admin tasks to play on your own computer or on some virtual environment (I see very sexy stuff about amazon) (e.g. setup a mail+imap+ldap+http+backup+samba+http+printer+nfs+vpn+svn server with fail-over, monitoring, stats gathering, automatic deployment tool (everyone likes puppet these days but personally I'll try rollout) and virtualization). Just an idea. --Amos -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Linux Traineeships?
Blindraven blindra...@gmail.com writes: Is there such a thing as a job that'd be willing to put someone through the starter ropes with Linux in a Junior SysAdmin role and whiz them of to places for certifications? (or not?) Is this more of a dream then a reality? Yes, and yes, probably. Specifically, there are places in Melbourne where I have worked in the past that might look to doing this, and I presume that Sydney would be the same — mostly smaller businesses. OTOH, especially in the current economic climate you are probably short on luck: it is hard to get hired anywhere, and that isn't going to change in the next few months. On that basis anyone who needs extra hand-holding is going to be at a significant disadvantage, so finding somewhere ... will be a challenge. I've heard time and time again people say employers prefer attitude and willingness to learn then a piece of paper, But is this just elitist fluff? That doesn't entirely make sense: usually people call the requirement for the degree elitist fluff rather than the willingness to overlook the lack of a degree or certification. ;) Anyway, um, generally employers vary wildly, but when hiring I have always been of the opinion that a degree is a good sign but hardly the be all and end all.[1] Having a degree shows three things: first, that you can complete a degree course at university, second, that you know how to study and research things, and finally that you might have some vague knowledge of the area you studied. There are other ways to prove the same thing, but the degree is a good shorthand, and when you have a hundred (or even thirty) resumes to review it can be a useful first pass filter... One of the Junior roles I tried for quite some time ago in the city was one of the most depressing wank-shop's I've ever had the misfortune of embarrassing myself in If you are hoping to have folks help you find somewhere you really want to do one of two things here: either don't talk about it, or explain what you mean. Don't name names, obviously, but details count. After all, I now have no idea how you embarrassed yourself, or why you considered the junior role to be at a wank-shop, but I have to wonder. My first thought is to the various people I have worked with over the years who had very high opinions of themselves. When presented with actual work, found that they were not able to perform, and concluded that the employer or the job was at fault, not themselves... Now, that is a terrible thing to think about someone and I have no reason to believe that you *are* like that — but in the absence of any facts the concern is hard to escape. since this interview I've just been to self concious to bother applying for anything else. The secret to getting a job when you don't have a good set of academic results, and you also don't have a lot of experience, is to apply for an awful lot of jobs. Most of them will reject you, but eventually you will get lucky and be able to find something, then start building the experience you need to show that you can, in fact, actually do things. :) Does anybody have any advice on good places to look for these types of roles? Everywhere. Seriously, talk to your friends and family, strangers you run into at the cafe, read user groups, join SAGE-AU for the job list, network, and generally apply for anything that looks interesting, no matter what. Be flexible, and willing to put up with less than perfect conditions, or to do scut-work for a while to get experience, since you want *something* to convince an employer to take a chance on you next time. I'm talking novice/intermediate every.day administration, comfortable with bare CLI etc. Publish a resume, and point people to it. :) Regards, Daniel Footnotes: [1] I don't have one myself, after all. ;) -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Linux Traineeships?
I want to reply in length to all of these, I'll get back to you in the morning. Right now it's to hot to think =/ T. On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 11:37 PM, Daniel Pittman dan...@rimspace.net wrote: Blindraven blindra...@gmail.com writes: Is there such a thing as a job that'd be willing to put someone through the starter ropes with Linux in a Junior SysAdmin role and whiz them of to places for certifications? (or not?) Is this more of a dream then a reality? Yes, and yes, probably. Specifically, there are places in Melbourne where I have worked in the past that might look to doing this, and I presume that Sydney would be the same — mostly smaller businesses. OTOH, especially in the current economic climate you are probably short on luck: it is hard to get hired anywhere, and that isn't going to change in the next few months. On that basis anyone who needs extra hand-holding is going to be at a significant disadvantage, so finding somewhere ... will be a challenge. I've heard time and time again people say employers prefer attitude and willingness to learn then a piece of paper, But is this just elitist fluff? That doesn't entirely make sense: usually people call the requirement for the degree elitist fluff rather than the willingness to overlook the lack of a degree or certification. ;) Anyway, um, generally employers vary wildly, but when hiring I have always been of the opinion that a degree is a good sign but hardly the be all and end all.[1] Having a degree shows three things: first, that you can complete a degree course at university, second, that you know how to study and research things, and finally that you might have some vague knowledge of the area you studied. There are other ways to prove the same thing, but the degree is a good shorthand, and when you have a hundred (or even thirty) resumes to review it can be a useful first pass filter... One of the Junior roles I tried for quite some time ago in the city was one of the most depressing wank-shop's I've ever had the misfortune of embarrassing myself in If you are hoping to have folks help you find somewhere you really want to do one of two things here: either don't talk about it, or explain what you mean. Don't name names, obviously, but details count. After all, I now have no idea how you embarrassed yourself, or why you considered the junior role to be at a wank-shop, but I have to wonder. My first thought is to the various people I have worked with over the years who had very high opinions of themselves. When presented with actual work, found that they were not able to perform, and concluded that the employer or the job was at fault, not themselves... Now, that is a terrible thing to think about someone and I have no reason to believe that you *are* like that — but in the absence of any facts the concern is hard to escape. since this interview I've just been to self concious to bother applying for anything else. The secret to getting a job when you don't have a good set of academic results, and you also don't have a lot of experience, is to apply for an awful lot of jobs. Most of them will reject you, but eventually you will get lucky and be able to find something, then start building the experience you need to show that you can, in fact, actually do things. :) Does anybody have any advice on good places to look for these types of roles? Everywhere. Seriously, talk to your friends and family, strangers you run into at the cafe, read user groups, join SAGE-AU for the job list, network, and generally apply for anything that looks interesting, no matter what. Be flexible, and willing to put up with less than perfect conditions, or to do scut-work for a while to get experience, since you want *something* to convince an employer to take a chance on you next time. I'm talking novice/intermediate every.day administration, comfortable with bare CLI etc. Publish a resume, and point people to it. :) Regards, Daniel Footnotes: [1] I don't have one myself, after all. ;) -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html -- None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
