Re: [SLUG] Re: [Jobs] Systems Admin - Build Engineer
On 05/24/2011 12:54 PM, Simon Rumble wrote: You're talking to the wrong people. Lemme guess, recruitment agents with English accents, straight off the plane from England but claiming to have extensive contacts in the industry? They're idiots. Every last one of them. They'll be reading your somewhat eclectic CV and see that as a liability, which is idiotic of course but they're idiots you see. Since they have absolutely no understanding of what we do, they just parse a checklist of skills against your CV. There are two discussions I know of on LinkedIn regarding IT recruiters. One in the "Australian IT Industry" group asking for your top five complaints about recruiters. (If you are going to post have a read of all the comments first - you might learn something [and grab a large coffee first its rather long]) ...and secondly in "Australian & New Zealand Recruitment Network" where recruiters are discussing how they can *fix and address* the *valid* complaints IT (and other) candidates have. The comments about imported recruiters have been made on both LinkedIn groups. Try to find companies that advertise direct. In some (many?) cases recruiters are filling positions you are interested in so dealing with them is part of the employment landscape. My advice: * Make an effort to build a relationship with smaller numbers of recruiter who you get better service from, find them, stick with them. * They are time poor and dealing with 100's of different people each week - give them a break and start every phone conversation with a couple of words to job their memory "Hi its David, the DBA candidate for the North Shore role..." * Vote with your feet - walk away from recruiters that mess you about and tell them eg: "You told me the role was paying $80k but in interview the employer said it was $70k" (it might be that the *employer* made a mistake or lied - give the recruiter enough feedback to mend their evil ways. If there's a job you really want that's got a recruitment agent in the way, put in a custom CV that ticks all the mandatory boxes, plus something ridiculously wrong but funny (12 years Ruby on Rails experience). Hopefully you'll get through to someone with a brain who'll find it funny and decide to call you. That's not good advice. (I find it funny and can look past it but I wouldn't bet you career on the recruiter or employer doing sowould you?) The IT recruitment agency slogan: If you can, do. If you can't, have you considered a career in IT recruitment? Most engineers and IT people make lousy recruiters, one of the biggest complaints that IT candidate have is that the recruiter doesn't understand the job (aka they are not an engineer / IT person). Now just some caveats: * I've been in the Recruitment Industry since 1991 * Most recently as a developer of recruitment software * I manage the "Australian & New Zealand Recruitment Network" group on LinkedIn and kicked off the discussion so that recruiters could fix their own back yard - and OF COURSE they want to! * I have hired engineers a number of times (grad, ord, masters and up to professor level) and without exception none of them could do the recruitment role, but I know of people in the industry who are engineers and can * The discussion on "Australian IT Industry" has much larger feedback from both sides - most of which is valid - and if you care about this topic then I suggest you read it. The reason I have posted a reply is that in all the LUG's their are people with a wealth of experience and knowledge and also young people starting out on their careers. It would be unfair to the latter group to have Simon's opinion (which he is perfectly entitled to) go uncontested since - IMHO - the problems won't exactly go away so people might as well know how to deal with them. Trust me - I've been using Linux years before I was in recruitment! Cheers P -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: [Jobs] Systems Admin - Build Engineer
On 24 May 2011 13:24, Simon Rumble wrote: > Try to find companies that advertise direct. Whirlpool is a good place for > that kind of thing. If Python is your thing, try finding out what big > companies are doing Python in a big way in Sydney and contact them, and > find > others in the community who work for them (LinkedIn is your friend). > Snipey (http://www.snipey.com.au/) is supposed to be an aggregator of direct job postings by companies. I haven't done anything through them so can't testify on their quality. Good luck, --Amos -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: [Jobs] Systems Admin - Build Engineer
On Tue, May 24, 2011, Del wrote: > >My experience would put that salary at a high level helpdesk person, with > >what they are asking more towards the 80-100K range. > >Or am I being somewhat ambitious with my views? > > No, not ambitious. I had the job pushed at a few people I know by the > recruitment agent late last week. They want a degree qualified Linux Admin > with extensive development experience as well as able to be a MySQL DBA. > When I found out the salary on offer my response was "you are joking, > right?". +1. The above is basically why I stopped hunting for thos kinds of contracts outside of very narrow markets (eg financial contracts); most (local) places seeking all of the above expect(ed) to pay the equivalent of $60k - $65k pa for it. Adrian -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: [Jobs] Systems Admin - Build Engineer
My experience would put that salary at a high level helpdesk person, with what they are asking more towards the 80-100K range. Or am I being somewhat ambitious with my views? No, not ambitious. I had the job pushed at a few people I know by the recruitment agent late last week. They want a degree qualified Linux Admin with extensive development experience as well as able to be a MySQL DBA. When I found out the salary on offer my response was "you are joking, right?". -- Del Babel Consulting http://www.babel.com.au/ ph: 02 9400 0400 -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: [Jobs] Systems Admin - Build Engineer
SAGE-AU (I'm a member) and other similar organisations like ACS, as well as user groups like SLUG/Linux Australia can also provide avenues for jobs. So it'd be worth checking those out as well. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: [Jobs] Systems Admin - Build Engineer
On 24 May 2011 09:48, David Lyon wrote: > Back in Australia, it's hard for me to even get a job. Agents say not > enough experience. > > The best offer I can get is about $30 per hour for system administration > work. So to me those figures seem really high. > You're talking to the wrong people. Lemme guess, recruitment agents with English accents, straight off the plane from England but claiming to have extensive contacts in the industry? They're idiots. Every last one of them. They'll be reading your somewhat eclectic CV and see that as a liability, which is idiotic of course but they're idiots you see. Since they have absolutely no understanding of what we do, they just parse a checklist of skills against your CV. Try to find companies that advertise direct. Whirlpool is a good place for that kind of thing. If Python is your thing, try finding out what big companies are doing Python in a big way in Sydney and contact them, and find others in the community who work for them (LinkedIn is your friend). If there's a job you really want that's got a recruitment agent in the way, put in a custom CV that ticks all the mandatory boxes, plus something ridiculously wrong but funny (12 years Ruby on Rails experience). Hopefully you'll get through to someone with a brain who'll find it funny and decide to call you. The IT recruitment agency slogan: If you can, do. If you can't, have you considered a career in IT recruitment? -- Simon Rumble -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: [Jobs] Systems Admin - Build Engineer
> "Mark" == Mark Walkom writes: Mark> On a more general note, cause it's always nice to see what the Mark> market thinks, I noticed this advertised this morning on the Mark> jobs list and I was curious; How many sysadmins would have Mark> enough programming experience to fulfil this job, or programmers Mark> with sysadmin experience. And more importantly, of those, who Mark> would want to work for such a low wage - at least, it's low for Mark> Sydney for such a strong skill set? I'd agree, unless it's a part time role. I could imagine someone close to retirement with all these skills who'd want a two to two-and-a-half day a week job at that TRP -- which puts the market at twice what they're offering. Peter C -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: [Jobs] Systems Admin - Build Engineer
Hi Mark, I had the exact same thoughts when reading this ad. Thankfully I'm not in the market at the moment, but I always read job ads just to see what people are asking for and offering, but I was surprised to see such a low salary range on offer for a role that requires a fair bit of experience. It certainly seems like a Uni grad with 1-2 years experience type salary with mid/senior Linux Sysadmin requirements. David, your email certainly surprised me. I have had calls (recent ones too) in the last few months for Linux sysadmin roles and they were all at least 80K (or at least $500/day for contract roles) so it does surprise me to read your story. I hope it's just bad timing and things will pick up and you'll get what you're worth. Best regards, Gonzalo On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 9:24 AM, Mark Walkom wrote: > On a more general note, cause it's always nice to see what the market > thinks, I noticed this advertised this morning on the jobs list and I was > curious; > How many sysadmins would have enough programming experience to fulfil this > job, or programmers with sysadmin experience. > And more importantly, of those, who would want to work for such a low wage > - > at least, it's low for Sydney for such a strong skill set? > > My experience would put that salary at a high level helpdesk person, with > what they are asking more towards the 80-100K range. > Or am I being somewhat ambitious with my views? > > On 23 May 2011 10:55, Steve Wang wrote: > > > *Systems Admin - Build Engineer* > > > > *About BigWorld:* > > > > BigWorld is an Australian company that creates leading middleware MMO > > technology using Linux mission critical servers and Windows based 3D > > clients. We are interested in hiring staff that have the required > > technical abilities, are passionate about the games industry and enjoy > > thinking and solving technical and design challenges creatively. > > > > BigWorld Technology is developed by a creative, dynamic and innovative > > team working in an environment that is challenging, exciting and > constantly > > evolving. > > > > * * > > > > *The Role:* > > > > We are looking for an experienced and resourceful Systems Admin / Build > > Engineer with a strong technical mind and programming ability to > > administer our internal network. In this varied role you will assist in > > maintaining and improving our small Linux and Windows mixed network used > by > > our developers, administering and trouble shooting our network including > > firewalls, SSL and ftp, email, backup and recovery processes, web > > connectivity, web products such as MediaWiki and PHPBB and providing the > > dev team with support for software and hardware issues. As an integral > > part of the development team you will be responsible for expanding and > > maintaining the software development build environment. Working with the > > latest technology you will implement and maintain continuous build and > unit > > testing and release infrastructure, and deploy Bigworld Technology builds > > to new licensees. > > > > This role is ideal for someone with sound Sys Admin and technical skills > > looking to extend their skillset further in scripting and programming. > > > > > > > > *The Requirements:* > > > > · Qualifications in computer science or software > > engineering as well as experience in a commercial software development > > environment > > > > · Scripting or Programming Experience (eg. Python, > > Perl, PHP, Awk, Shell, C, C++) > > > > · An understanding of the software development > process > > > > · Previous experience setting-up build frameworks and > > infrastructure. > > > > · Strong Linux experience > > > > · An intermediate level in Linux administration that > > includes basic Linux (LAMP) server administration tasks (MySQL, FTP, > HTTP, > > SMB, automated tasks, automated backups) > > > > · Basic Windows administration skills > > > > · Demonstrate a good understanding of server security > > issues, and network/web protocols > > > > · Extensive Networking Experience > > (configuring/managing switches and firewalls) > > > > · Ability to troubleshoot and solve all day to day > > issues associated with the Network, Internet link, PCs, Printers and > Phones > > > > · Self-motivated and able to work well both > > independently and as part of a project team > > > > · Excellent written and verbal communication and > > collaboration skills > > > > · Highly organised with excellent time management and > > an ability to deliver on deadlines with multiple tasks > > > > · Demonstrated ability to quickly and effectively > > develop a good working knowledge of new technologies > > > > > > > > *Desirable skills and knowledge:* > > > > ·
Re: [SLUG] Re: [Jobs] Systems Admin - Build Engineer
With high wages comes high pressure. In my career, I've worked with a number of big finance companies, done project software that's built power stations, coal trucks and so forth here in Australia. Then I went overseas and sold Python software (that I wrote) in Germany, USA, Turkey and Malaysia. I did that for a number of years and really loved doing it. Then when I came back I did the Design Feasibility for the NSW Desalination plant to enable it to work on renewable energy. I do all sorts of python, C++ and Linux stuff. Back in Australia, it's hard for me to even get a job. Agents say not enough experience. The best offer I can get is about $30 per hour for system administration work. So to me those figures seem really high. Thanks for the tip - I should try to apply... David On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 9:24 AM, Mark Walkom wrote: > On a more general note, cause it's always nice to see what the market > thinks, I noticed this advertised this morning on the jobs list and I was > curious; > How many sysadmins would have enough programming experience to fulfil this > job, or programmers with sysadmin experience. > And more importantly, of those, who would want to work for such a low wage > - > at least, it's low for Sydney for such a strong skill set? > > My experience would put that salary at a high level helpdesk person, with > what they are asking more towards the 80-100K range. > Or am I being somewhat ambitious with my views? > > On 23 May 2011 10:55, Steve Wang wrote: > > > *Systems Admin - Build Engineer* > > > > *About BigWorld:* > > > > BigWorld is an Australian company that creates leading middleware MMO > > technology using Linux mission critical servers and Windows based 3D > > clients. We are interested in hiring staff that have the required > > technical abilities, are passionate about the games industry and enjoy > > thinking and solving technical and design challenges creatively. > > > > BigWorld Technology is developed by a creative, dynamic and innovative > > team working in an environment that is challenging, exciting and > constantly > > evolving. > > > > * * > > > > *The Role:* > > > > We are looking for an experienced and resourceful Systems Admin / Build > > Engineer with a strong technical mind and programming ability to > > administer our internal network. In this varied role you will assist in > > maintaining and improving our small Linux and Windows mixed network used > by > > our developers, administering and trouble shooting our network including > > firewalls, SSL and ftp, email, backup and recovery processes, web > > connectivity, web products such as MediaWiki and PHPBB and providing the > > dev team with support for software and hardware issues. As an integral > > part of the development team you will be responsible for expanding and > > maintaining the software development build environment. Working with the > > latest technology you will implement and maintain continuous build and > unit > > testing and release infrastructure, and deploy Bigworld Technology builds > > to new licensees. > > > > This role is ideal for someone with sound Sys Admin and technical skills > > looking to extend their skillset further in scripting and programming. > > > > > > > > *The Requirements:* > > > > · Qualifications in computer science or software > > engineering as well as experience in a commercial software development > > environment > > > > · Scripting or Programming Experience (eg. Python, > > Perl, PHP, Awk, Shell, C, C++) > > > > · An understanding of the software development > process > > > > · Previous experience setting-up build frameworks and > > infrastructure. > > > > · Strong Linux experience > > > > · An intermediate level in Linux administration that > > includes basic Linux (LAMP) server administration tasks (MySQL, FTP, > HTTP, > > SMB, automated tasks, automated backups) > > > > · Basic Windows administration skills > > > > · Demonstrate a good understanding of server security > > issues, and network/web protocols > > > > · Extensive Networking Experience > > (configuring/managing switches and firewalls) > > > > · Ability to troubleshoot and solve all day to day > > issues associated with the Network, Internet link, PCs, Printers and > Phones > > > > · Self-motivated and able to work well both > > independently and as part of a project team > > > > · Excellent written and verbal communication and > > collaboration skills > > > > · Highly organised with excellent time management and > > an ability to deliver on deadlines with multiple tasks > > > > · Demonstrated ability to quickly and effectively > > develop a good working knowledge of new technologies > > > > > > > > *Desirable skills a
[SLUG] Re: [Jobs] Systems Admin - Build Engineer
On a more general note, cause it's always nice to see what the market thinks, I noticed this advertised this morning on the jobs list and I was curious; How many sysadmins would have enough programming experience to fulfil this job, or programmers with sysadmin experience. And more importantly, of those, who would want to work for such a low wage - at least, it's low for Sydney for such a strong skill set? My experience would put that salary at a high level helpdesk person, with what they are asking more towards the 80-100K range. Or am I being somewhat ambitious with my views? On 23 May 2011 10:55, Steve Wang wrote: > *Systems Admin - Build Engineer* > > *About BigWorld:* > > BigWorld is an Australian company that creates leading middleware MMO > technology using Linux mission critical servers and Windows based 3D > clients. We are interested in hiring staff that have the required > technical abilities, are passionate about the games industry and enjoy > thinking and solving technical and design challenges creatively. > > BigWorld Technology is developed by a creative, dynamic and innovative > team working in an environment that is challenging, exciting and constantly > evolving. > > * * > > *The Role:* > > We are looking for an experienced and resourceful Systems Admin / Build > Engineer with a strong technical mind and programming ability to > administer our internal network. In this varied role you will assist in > maintaining and improving our small Linux and Windows mixed network used by > our developers, administering and trouble shooting our network including > firewalls, SSL and ftp, email, backup and recovery processes, web > connectivity, web products such as MediaWiki and PHPBB and providing the > dev team with support for software and hardware issues. As an integral > part of the development team you will be responsible for expanding and > maintaining the software development build environment. Working with the > latest technology you will implement and maintain continuous build and unit > testing and release infrastructure, and deploy Bigworld Technology builds > to new licensees. > > This role is ideal for someone with sound Sys Admin and technical skills > looking to extend their skillset further in scripting and programming. > > > > *The Requirements:* > > · Qualifications in computer science or software > engineering as well as experience in a commercial software development > environment > > · Scripting or Programming Experience (eg. Python, > Perl, PHP, Awk, Shell, C, C++) > > · An understanding of the software development process > > · Previous experience setting-up build frameworks and > infrastructure. > > · Strong Linux experience > > · An intermediate level in Linux administration that > includes basic Linux (LAMP) server administration tasks (MySQL, FTP, HTTP, > SMB, automated tasks, automated backups) > > · Basic Windows administration skills > > · Demonstrate a good understanding of server security > issues, and network/web protocols > > · Extensive Networking Experience > (configuring/managing switches and firewalls) > > · Ability to troubleshoot and solve all day to day > issues associated with the Network, Internet link, PCs, Printers and Phones > > · Self-motivated and able to work well both > independently and as part of a project team > > · Excellent written and verbal communication and > collaboration skills > > · Highly organised with excellent time management and > an ability to deliver on deadlines with multiple tasks > > · Demonstrated ability to quickly and effectively > develop a good working knowledge of new technologies > > > > *Desirable skills and knowledge:* > > · Competent with C++ programming > > · Automated build/continuous integration tool > administration (Hudson/Jenkins) > > · Issue tracking tool administration (such as > Bugzilla) > > · Web development (HTML, CSS, JavaScript, PHP, etc > > · Familiar with SVN > > · Have experience in MySQL database server > administration > > Salary*:* $50k to $60k Depending on ability and experience. > > If you believe that you are the right person for this position, please > forward your resume by email to: j...@bigworldtech.com > > > ___ > jobs mailing list > j...@slug.org.au > http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/jobs > -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
