Fwd: Re: [SLUG] Re: Android-based smartphones - any , drawbacks
Voytek Eymont li...@sbt.net.au wrote: Just checked, after 8 hours, WiFi on, 3g off, 75 battery left -- After 24h 30m: 40% left according to stats: screen on 10%, WiFi on, BT on, data transferred: 3 MB, 30MB - 3G, WiFi stats don't seem to show 3G on time, at a guess, probably 45 or 60 minutes So did you decide what phone to very yet? -- Swyped from my Motrix with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: Android-based smartphones - any drawbacks
Thanks for all the serious feedback, esp. Voytek for battery life discussion and list of sysadmin apps, also Edwin. Sounds like something like Galaxy Nexus with Cyanogen will allow me to seriously experiment - I learned Linux by repairing messes I had made of my system by customizations mixing stock distro with Linux from scratch. Android seems to offer what I do with Linux - mix and match best of breed / what works best apps, as Patrick mentions with Browsers, customise config options etc. i.e. personalising my OS. I'm in a similar position to what Ken mentions re doctors needing an IPhone if they want to use the MIMS app, but apparently medicos are buying Androids nevertheless - libraries I support will be developing an IPhone app to access their catalog... maybe I can get an Android version going. If I was 30 years younger then Marghanita's evidence would have been crucial. Rod On 02/09/12 17:00, Patrick Elliott-Brennan wrote: Rod wrote: I originally asked whether there was any important functionality that Android-based phones lacked compared to the competition, and whether they struggled with any file formats. I then added that this appeared to me to be an issue of available apps and requested confirmation or otherwise of this assumption - the inference I intended was that I assumed that any such issues would not be a function of the operating systems themselves but rather a function of what apps had been written and what they could do. Rather than actually address the questions posters responded with clumsy sarcasm, recast the questions in terms of their pet hobbyhorses and wandered off into moral philosophy. Closest we got was some facts about techniques for extending battery life, which is important and relevant, but I still don't know how Android compares in this area to the competition. Rod Fair enough, Rod. Drifting off the subject... From what I know of those with iPhones (I don't have one, I've got a Samsung Galaxy S2)) , when we compare phones there's little different in the way of applications and thus general, everyday user functionality. I think, as Ken commented, there can be circumstances in which something is only available for iOS (MIMS, as Ken mentioned). The friends who have iPhone 4's have complained about battery life but in many ways this is the consequence of these devices have such a large range of capabilities (web browsing, applications for games and sites, taking photos, listening to music or watching movies etc). For examle, the S2 really needs something like Juice Defender to improve it's battery life, which is not great when compared to my Nokia N95. I can get more than 24 hours if I stop all the automatic synching and endless search for wireless networks. My N95 would give me a couple of days. I would imagine it would come down to whether there was a specific capability you wanted or needed. For example, my Nokia N8 took the best photos and video of any mobile phone out there. There is daylight between it and the next on the list...take your choice. Given your comment in relation to hardware/OS v applications, I'm not aware of any statistics in relation to people jailbreaking their iPhones but my understanding is that people do so because of the limitations of the OS as installed. People also mod Android phones (eg. Cyanogen mods) to provide options which don't exist with the stock install. I've not explored this in any detail so am of no use :) My experience of the browser on stock iPhones is that it's pretty much dreadful. Highly inflexible and difficult to navigate. My theory about the rise of apps in the iOS world is that the dreadful browser on the iPhone has meant that you really do need a separate app to make accessing information or services an imperative. On my Android phone I have a few different browsers (Tor, Firefox, stock, Dolphin and Opera mini) which generally all work well, but on ocassions each has something or does something better than one of the others. For instance, the Blogger app is not as good as using a browser (eg. Firefox) which has been set to 'desktop' mode. Similary, the Google+ app is quite good but it doesn't render .gif's if someone has used them as part of a post. I know this is not a particulary technical reply, but I hope it helps all the same. Regards, Patrick -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: Android-based smartphones - any drawbacks
The friends who have iPhone 4's have complained about battery life but in many ways this is the consequence of these devices have such a large range of capabilities (web browsing, applications for games and sites, taking photos, listening to music or watching movies etc). For examle, above of course aplies not to just to Apple speaking of Apple 4 battery life, I know two friends who have the new 4, one is not very tech literate, she was complaining of battery life, BUT, addmited she probably was playing with her brand new phone a lot, following the s/w upgrade, she says battery life is now very good, asked her again, still very happy with battery life after s/w u/g my other friend is quite tech literate, he says his iPhone 4 battery life is excellent in my limited experience with Android, similar issues/resolutions appear on Android: Desire HD with poor battery life for the 1st 12 month, since HTC updates few weeks ago, excellent battery life Atrix, initially mediocre or poor battery, with CM7 and faux123 1.45G kernel, excellent battery life the S2 really needs something like Juice Defender to improve it's battery life, which is not great when compared to my Nokia N95. I can get more than 24 hours if I stop all the automatic synching and endless search for wireless networks. My N95 would give me a couple of days. if I use 3G sporadically, I can easily get 48 hours from Atrix - again, that depends very much on what op sys revision you have in my experience, only 3G data enabled makes a significant battery drain, this is my single biggest gripe with my phone, why does having 3g data enabled should drain so much battery if my phone is set not to do all this social networking stuff, etc. apparently, it can be overcome with like Juice defender, etc, but, surely a smart phone could have data on and 'snooze it' till needed on demand I think...? one of the CM7 builds was pretty close to puurffect in that regards, problem is, once I was able to run the phone in excess of 24 hours on single charge, it became no longer so important to me, and, the brag rights of having latest CM7 latest overclocked kernel took over My experience of the browser on stock iPhones is that it's pretty much dreadful. Highly inflexible and difficult to navigate. My theory about the rise of apps in the iOS world is that the dreadful browser on the iPhone has meant that you really do need a separate app to make accessing information or services an imperative. again, I have never used iPhone, so., can't comment there, BUT I really think above applies to any device with circa 4 screen, most web pages simply don't scale well to fit on 4 screen. as much as personally I don't think that much of iPhone, that's what I'd recommend to most people (if the were foolish to ask me, that is), as I think the whole Apple thing is better for most lusers but for any one who is into stuff, as Steve Wozniak said, Android is the way to go (though my friend with is into Cisco is very happy with his iPhone, has a Cisco client that hooks him up to his Cisco VOIP switch) meanwhile, I've managed to get Ethernet going on my Android tablet (using USB Ethernet adapter. -- Voytek -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: Android-based smartphones - any drawbacks
On Sun, February 12, 2012 9:36 pm, Rod Butcher wrote: If I was 30 years younger then Marghanita's evidence would have been crucial. apparently there are some chemical compounds that can overcome certain aspects of the 30 years older syndrome - though I have no hard evidence to confirm -- Voytek -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Libraries, Interoperability of E-books and Apps was Re: [SLUG] Re: Android-based smartphones - any drawbacks
Rod Butcher wrote: snip I'm in a similar position to what Ken mentions re doctors needing an IPhone if they want to use the MIMS app, but apparently medicos are buying Androids nevertheless - libraries I support will be developing an IPhone app to access their catalog... maybe I can get an Android version going. snip Seems that libraries (and others) are going to get very tangled with their platforms as they move away from Web standards. Leaving aside the ongoing video/audio codec issue - possibly solved by WebM. In the talk I gave to SLUG, mid last year, I explained that Lulu took my Epub (HTML) and converted it to the format suitable for distribution via iTunes/iBooks (Apple). http://ramin.com.au/linux/formatting-e-books-and-paperbacks-part2.shtml The NSW State Library is going with Downloaded EBL ebooks can be transferred to any portable ebook reader that supports Adobe Digital Editions (ADE). There is a list of compatible devices on the ADE website. http://www2.sl.nsw.gov.au/databases/using_ebooks.cfm The National Library have recently added an Android App for the fabulous National Treasures Exhibition. I am pretty sure the Android App is more recent than the iTunes App. The Treasures Gallery mobile app is now available to download for free from iTunes and the Google Android Market. http://www.nla.gov.au/exhibitions/treasures-gallery/mobile-application Marghanita PS With regard to your comment: If I was 30 years younger then Marghanita's evidence would have been crucial. I assume you are referring to my posting on Dating http://lists.slug.org.au/archives/slug/2012/02/msg00035.html rather than the one on Battery Life http://lists.slug.org.au/archives/slug/2012/02/msg00011.html -- Marghanita da Cruz Ramin Communications (Sydney) Website: http://ramin.com.au Phone:(+612) 0414-869202 -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: Android-based smartphones - any , drawbacks
Voytek Eymont Mon, 13 Feb 2012 09:33:37 +1100 Patrick wrote: The friends who have iPhone 4's have complained about battery life but in many ways this is the consequence of these devices have such a large range of capabilities (web browsing, applications for games and sites, taking photos, listening to music or watching movies etc). For examle, Voytek wrote above of course aplies not to just to Apple I hadn't meant to imply it was only Apple devices. I can see how it looks that way. I did give the Samsung Galaxy S2 (which I own) as an example too :)) See:the S2 really needs something like Juice Defender to improve it's battery life, which is not great when compared to my Nokia N95. I find that if I use something like Juice Defender and then lock down everything it last a long time...but that's a bit like having Ferrari F450 and then not driving it anywhere. Voytek: in my experience, only 3G data enabled makes a significant battery drain, this is my single biggest gripe with my phone, why does having 3g data enabled should drain so much battery if my phone is set not to do all this social networking stuff, etc. apparently, it can be overcome with like Juice defender, etc, but, surely a smart phone could have data on and 'snooze it' till needed on demand I know what you mean. Here's a great phone will all these functions. 'Fraid it'll only last two hours until you have to recharge it though. Patrick wrote: My experience of the browser on stock iPhones is that it's pretty much dreadful. Highly inflexible and difficult to navigate. My theory about the rise of apps in the iOS world is that the dreadful browser on the iPhone has meant that you really do need a separate app to make accessing information or services an imperative. Voytek wrote: again, I have never used iPhone, so., can't comment there, BUT I really think above applies to any device with circa 4 screen, most web pages simply don't scale well to fit on 4 screen. You should try it out. My experience is that Safari is just purely dreadful. Others may beg to differ. Regards, Patrick -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: Android-based smartphones - any , drawbacks
You should try it out. My experience is that Safari is just purely dreadful. Others may beg to differ. Actually, another friend just got an iPhone 4, she asked me to backup her iPhone 3, so I told her if she had no use for 3 to give it to me, so maybe I'll have one... My personal POV still is that Web browsing on small screen is nothing to write home about. I've done a basic camera comparison between my 5MP versus iPhone 8 MP, clearly the iPhone photos were'better', though the iPhone owner preferred color in my photos, then again, since going with CM7, I don't have the original camera, do not really proper comparison (I also lost panorama shots, Motorola had that, CM 7 doesn't). Just checked, after 8 hours, WiFi on, 3g off, 75 battery left -- Swyped from my Motrix with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Libraries, Interoperability of E-books and Apps was Re: [SLUG] Re: Android-based smartphones - any drawbacks
Marghanita da Cruz marghan...@ramin.com.au wrote: PS With regard to your comment: If I was 30 years younger then Marghanita's evidence would have been crucial. I assume you are referring to my posting on Dating http://lists.slug.org.au/archives/slug/2012/02/msg00035.html rather than the one on Battery Life http://lists.slug.org.au/archives/slug/2012/02/msg00011.html -- Pinch to zoom browser is really cute, but the browser is not getting the proper URL, both of these just take me to slug menu page, not correct page, like I said, Web browsing on these gadgets is nothing to write home. But I'm enjoying Swyping, I think if rather Swype than Graffiti's -- Swyped from my Motrix with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Libraries, Interoperability of E-books and Apps was Re: [SLUG] Re: Android-based smartphones - any drawbacks
Voytek Eymont li...@sbt.net.au wrote: Pinch to zoom browser is really cute, but the browser is not getting the proper URL, both of these just take me to slug menu page, not correct page, like I said, Web browsing on these gadgets is nothing to write home. Actually, it seems like it could be mail client passing trailing character -- Swyped from my Motrix with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Re: Android-based smartphones - any drawbacks
On 10/02/2012, at 6:20 AM, slug-requ...@slug.org.au wrote: I originally asked whether there was any important functionality that Android-based phones lacked compared to the competition, and whether they struggled with any file formats. I then added that this appeared to me to be an issue of available apps and requested confirmation or otherwise of this assumption - the inference I intended was that I assumed that any such issues would not be a function of the operating systems themselves but rather a function of what apps had been written and what they could do. Rather than actually address the questions posters responded with clumsy sarcasm, recast the questions in terms of their pet hobbyhorses and wandered off into moral philosophy. Closest we got was some facts about techniques for extending battery life, which is important and relevant, but I still don't know how Android compares in this area to the competition. Although it LOOKs like a technical question it is not hence the interesting side discussion. If the phone does do what you want then its the right sort of phone and vice verse. EG why on earth would I like to ssh from my android, there are much better and easier ways for me. That does not answer you if you want/need ssh. A general observation is that the iThing programmers seem to think that God created them for the benefit of mankind. You can show your appreciation by lavishing money on them. So asking SLUG Any drawbacks to Android is a meaningless question. James-- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: Android-based smartphones - any drawbacks ?
On 06/02/12 17:41, Nick Andrew wrote: On Mon, Feb 06, 2012 at 09:34:22AM +0800, James Linder wrote: If I choose to use windows then the only and remote moral issue is MS use the money I fed them to wreck havoc on the world. I think you just proved Patrick's point. By continuing to pay money to MS, you are in part responsible for the use to which you know they put that money - which is to continue to lock users inside an MS ecosystem to the maximum extent possible. Software patents and restricted copy and use rights deprive users of freedom. Users may not be aware of this lost freedom, but that doesn't mean it's valueless. if we loose track of the ball and even start to believe that freedom is a moral issue. You think freedom is not a moral issue? Sorry, but freedom is the epitome of a moral issue. Rights, responsibilities, privileges, power, choice, liberty, coercion and contract are all important issues in the world of software and the Internet as they are in the physical world. We're developing new things pretty rapidly and it is important for future generations that we get the governance model right; we don't want to end up with the Internet equivalent of a theocracy or feudal system. Certainly if you try to argue with the PM linux for every kid because Windoze is immoral you are going to find your self ignored. umm who says you have to tell them that, just because it's a moral issue doesn't mean you have to argue it as a moral issue, that is a process of discovery, first let them discover what linux (or other FOSS stuff) can do for them, emphasising the fun and usefulness of it, then as time goes by the freedom, chances are they'll catch on to the philosophical issues by themselves or not depending on their temperament shheees some people have no Idea how to put across there point ;) :P If that was a once-only argument you may be right, but it takes time to raise awareness and a lot of effort to explain why putting yourself, say, at the mercy of Microsoft's or some other company's EULA is ultimately harmful. While this thread drifts OT the basic issue is tremendously important for us as a group. So ... back to the important questions of whether Android or IOS runs more apps? Nick. -- .~. In my life God comes first /V\ but Linux is pretty high after that :-D /( )\Francis (Grizzly) Smit ^^-^^http://www.smit.id.au/ -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: Android-based smartphones - any drawbacks ?
On 02/06/12 17:41, Nick Andrew wrote: On Mon, Feb 06, 2012 at 09:34:22AM +0800, James Linder wrote: SNIP While this thread drifts OT the basic issue is tremendously important for us as a group. So ... back to the important questions of whether Android or IOS runs more apps? Nick. I originally asked whether there was any important functionality that Android-based phones lacked compared to the competition, and whether they struggled with any file formats. I then added that this appeared to me to be an issue of available apps and requested confirmation or otherwise of this assumption - the inference I intended was that I assumed that any such issues would not be a function of the operating systems themselves but rather a function of what apps had been written and what they could do. Rather than actually address the questions posters responded with clumsy sarcasm, recast the questions in terms of their pet hobbyhorses and wandered off into moral philosophy. Closest we got was some facts about techniques for extending battery life, which is important and relevant, but I still don't know how Android compares in this area to the competition. Rod -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: Android-based smartphones - any drawbacks ?
On 6/02/2012 10:44 PM, Rod Butcher wrote: On 02/06/12 17:41, Nick Andrew wrote: On Mon, Feb 06, 2012 at 09:34:22AM +0800, James Linder wrote: SNIP While this thread drifts OT the basic issue is tremendously important for us as a group. So ... back to the important questions of whether Android or IOS runs more apps? Nick. I originally asked whether there was any important functionality that Android-based phones lacked compared to the competition, and whether they struggled with any file formats. I then added that this appeared to me to be an issue of available apps and requested confirmation or otherwise of this assumption - the inference I intended was that I assumed that any such issues would not be a function of the operating systems themselves but rather a function of what apps had been written and what they could do. Rather than actually address the questions posters responded with clumsy sarcasm, recast the questions in terms of their pet hobbyhorses and wandered off into moral philosophy. Closest we got was some facts about techniques for extending battery life, which is important and relevant, but I still don't know how Android compares in this area to the competition. Rod For a very subjective response to this, I would quote Steve Wozniak (remember him - Steve Jobs' partner?): 'My primary phone is the iPhone, I love the beauty of it. But I wish it did all the things my Android does, I really do.' My Android phone has a lot of techy aps on it, to allow me to ssh into the server or RDP into a Windoze box, run DNS reverse lookups, traceroutes pings, telnet, wireless network analyses, etc - all of which are invaluable for troubleshooting customer's network problems. And all of these aps are free (even if they are not OSS). I haven't checked the availability of these on the iPhone, as none of my techy friends have iPhones; however, I have heard that the Apple Ap Store has far fewer free aps than the Android market. For what it's worth. Regards, Edwin Humphries attachment: edwinh.vcf-- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Fwd: Re: [SLUG] Re: Android-based smartphones - any drawbacks ?
Sorry, meant to send to the list -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. Voytek Eymont li...@sbt.net.au wrote: While this thread drifts OT the basic issue is tremendously important for us as a group. So ... back to the important questions of whether Android or IOS runs more apps? Who cares as long as it can do whatever it is that you want to do? I don't, many do. Makes good stars,I guess. -- Swyped from my Motrix with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: Android-based smartphones - any drawbacks ?
On 07/02/12 09:25, Edwin Humphries wrote: On 6/02/2012 10:44 PM, Rod Butcher wrote: On 02/06/12 17:41, Nick Andrew wrote: On Mon, Feb 06, 2012 at 09:34:22AM +0800, James Linder wrote: SNIP While this thread drifts OT the basic issue is tremendously important for us as a group. So ... back to the important questions of whether Android or IOS runs more apps? Nick. I originally asked whether there was any important functionality that Android-based phones lacked compared to the competition, and whether they struggled with any file formats. I then added that this appeared to me to be an issue of available apps and requested confirmation or otherwise of this assumption - the inference I intended was that I assumed that any such issues would not be a function of the operating systems themselves but rather a function of what apps had been written and what they could do. Rather than actually address the questions posters responded with clumsy sarcasm, recast the questions in terms of their pet hobbyhorses and wandered off into moral philosophy. Closest we got was some facts about techniques for extending battery life, which is important and relevant, but I still don't know how Android compares in this area to the competition. Rod For a very subjective response to this, I would quote Steve Wozniak (remember him - Steve Jobs' partner?): 'My primary phone is the iPhone, I love the beauty of it. But I wish it did all the things my Android does, I really do.' My Android phone has a lot of techy aps on it, to allow me to ssh into the server or RDP into a Windoze box, run DNS reverse lookups, traceroutes pings, telnet, wireless network analyses, etc - all of which are invaluable for troubleshooting customer's network problems. And all of these aps are free (even if they are not OSS). I haven't checked the availability of these on the iPhone, as none of my techy friends have iPhones; however, I have heard that the Apple Ap Store has far fewer free aps than the Android market. For what it's worth. Regards, Edwin Humphries My wife has an iphone on which I installed the best ftp app - haha - which turned out to be extremely limited. Maybe I didn't try hard enough but it seemed to assume that all I could possibly want to ftp were videos and photos. I get the impression that iphones are fantastic (seriously) if you are happy to follow the iphone rules, but not so useful if you want to do your own thing. Just an impression. Personally I use a cast-off Blackberry which I find to be relatively useless except for making phone calls. Once again, perhaps I don't try hard enough. My fingers are way too clumsy for smart phones anyway. -- David McQuire 0418 310312 -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: Android-based smartphones - any drawbacks ?
. Closest we got was some facts about techniques for extending battery life, which is important and relevant, but I still don't know how Android compares in this area to the competition. I think it's extremely hard to assess, or find a reliable and trustworthy data. Every time I try, things go'wrong', people call for long time, exceeding my desired situation, etc, etc, etc. To add to my woes,I'm now updating the OS weekly, on top of OS, I'm loading overclock kernels, etc etc, etc. All I can day,I definitely get a better battery life than I used to, with the updates to the system. (and, I'm not doing it add I must do out, I'm doing it as a learning thing for me) Swyped from my Motrix with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: Android-based smartphones - any drawbacks ?
Voytek Eymont li...@sbt.net.au wrote: . (and, I'm not doing it add I must do out, I'm doing it as a learning thing for me) And clearly I haven't mastered Swype as well as I should, judging by some of the auto corrections above. -- Swyped from my Motrix with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Re: Android-based smartphones - any drawbacks ?
On 06/02/2012, at 9:00 AM, slug-requ...@slug.org.au wrote: FOSS vs proprietary software is not a fetish. It's an ethical issue. As much as making decisions as to what sort of school (or even whether you send your children to school), or whether you will become a vegetarian or NOT be a vegetarian is an ethical issue. Some people can be accused of presenting their ethical positions in an almost religiously fundamentalist fashion and can be accused of being dramatic or dogmatic. Usually this is more a result of their personal presentation and inability to calmly or clearly discuss their position. In neither case is this a reflection of the validity of their views, more the response they receive and the reputation that results. It's even possible some people do 'fetishise' the subject of FOSS/Properietary software. I think this is the case with things like Apple products. However, this does not make the subject any less an ethical issue. If you are serious in phrasing it as a 'fetish' then I'd suggest looking up the difference. That said, I don't know if you are serious and I could be seriously oblivious to a subtle, dry humorous comment. In which case: My big. Patrick I absolutely and strongly disagree. BTW I'm older a wiser than yesterday: fetish has sexual connetations, fettish does not. feels like otto apologising in 'A Fish called Wanda If I choose to use windows then the only and remote moral issue is MS use the money I fed them to wreck havoc on the world. Under american law that is their bounden duty. [California introduces a moral corporation] To try to introduce your fettish as an ethical issue smacks of religious fundermentalism. I think a group like us who see the one-true-way risk being sidelined (when there are important issues at stake) if we loose track of the ball and even start to believe that freedom is a moral issue. Certainly if you try to argue with the PM linux for every kid because Windoze is immoral you are going to find your self ignored. While this thread drifts OT the basic issue is tremendously important for us as a group. IMHO James-- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Re: Android-based smartphones - any drawbacks?
Wrote: David Lyon Sun, 5 Feb 2012 18:31:04 +1100 well, another viewpoint. I bought a new notebook and it came with windows 7. For years I've not felt so dissappointed with a computer. I just couldn't find anything fun to do with it. They've even removed 'debug'.. Shish-ka-bobs. Then After I got Ubuntu 11 on, the machine is my sense of lovely. g++ was built in. Whoah. I do know what you mean :) For me there's a sense of ownership and control that happens when I install GNU/Linux on something. I know that's slightly exaggerated and I don't mind Win7. I just don't find *it* (as in Windows) interesting and fun in the same way I do a GNU/Linux install. Maybe it's the simple way of installing applications, the vast number of things which are free (in multiple ways) and, sometimes, as with Humble Bundle, the fact that I can decide how much I want to pay for something and feel there's a two-way street in progress. I also like the fact that on occasions I've written to the person/s who've created a piece of software and got a nice, friendly response and sometimes a Sure, I'll get on to that/try this response. Seriously cool. Regards, Patrick -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: Android-based smartphones - any drawbacks?
This might be another deciding factor :-| Sex on the First Date? Go For an Android User Match reported that 62 percent of Android owners will have sex after one date. By comparison, 57 percent of iPhone users and 48 percent of BlackBerry owners said they've gotten down on the first date. Android users are also more likely than owners of other handsets to hit it and quit it, with 55 percent saying they'd have a one-night stand. In general, Android owners seem to be more open to online dating, too. Match said 72 percent have visited online dating sites, while 58 percent of iPhone users and 50 percent of BlackBerry owners have done the same. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2399714,00.asp Marghanita -- Marghanita da Cruz Ramin Communications (Sydney) Website: http://ramin.com.au Phone:(+612) 0414-869202 -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: Android-based smartphones - any drawbacks ?
On Mon, Feb 06, 2012 at 09:34:22AM +0800, James Linder wrote: If I choose to use windows then the only and remote moral issue is MS use the money I fed them to wreck havoc on the world. I think you just proved Patrick's point. By continuing to pay money to MS, you are in part responsible for the use to which you know they put that money - which is to continue to lock users inside an MS ecosystem to the maximum extent possible. Software patents and restricted copy and use rights deprive users of freedom. Users may not be aware of this lost freedom, but that doesn't mean it's valueless. if we loose track of the ball and even start to believe that freedom is a moral issue. You think freedom is not a moral issue? Sorry, but freedom is the epitome of a moral issue. Rights, responsibilities, privileges, power, choice, liberty, coercion and contract are all important issues in the world of software and the Internet as they are in the physical world. We're developing new things pretty rapidly and it is important for future generations that we get the governance model right; we don't want to end up with the Internet equivalent of a theocracy or feudal system. Certainly if you try to argue with the PM linux for every kid because Windoze is immoral you are going to find your self ignored. If that was a once-only argument you may be right, but it takes time to raise awareness and a lot of effort to explain why putting yourself, say, at the mercy of Microsoft's or some other company's EULA is ultimately harmful. While this thread drifts OT the basic issue is tremendously important for us as a group. So ... back to the important questions of whether Android or IOS runs more apps? Nick. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Re: Android-based smartphones - any drawbacks ?
FOSS vs proprietary software is not a fetish. It's an ethical issue. As much as making decisions as to what sort of school (or even whether you send your children to school), or whether you will become a vegetarian or NOT be a vegetarian is an ethical issue. Some people can be accused of presenting their ethical positions in an almost religiously fundamentalist fashion and can be accused of being dramatic or dogmatic. Usually this is more a result of their personal presentation and inability to calmly or clearly discuss their position. In neither case is this a reflection of the validity of their views, more the response they receive and the reputation that results. It's even possible some people do 'fetishise' the subject of FOSS/Properietary software. I think this is the case with things like Apple products. However, this does not make the subject any less an ethical issue. If you are serious in phrasing it as a 'fetish' then I'd suggest looking up the difference. That said, I don't know if you are serious and I could be seriously oblivious to a subtle, dry humorous comment. In which case: My big. Regards, Patrick I do not think FOSS vx proprietary software is a moral issue, it is a fettish. Now if others care about your fettish then kewl, and if they are pragmatic in any form words of disapproval are discourteous. Sadly, people these days don't care ... ouch! James -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: Android-based smartphones - any drawbacks ?
well, another viewpoint. I bought a new notebook and it came with windows 7. For years I've not felt so dissappointed with a computer. I just couldn't find anything fun to do with it. They've even removed 'debug'.. Shish-ka-bobs. Then After I got Ubuntu 11 on, the machine is my sense of lovely. g++ was built in. Whoah. On 2/5/12, Patrick Elliott-Brennan m...@elliott-brennan.id.au wrote: FOSS vs proprietary software is not a fetish. It's an ethical issue. As much as making decisions as to what sort of school (or even whether you send your children to school), or whether you will become a vegetarian or NOT be a vegetarian is an ethical issue. Some people can be accused of presenting their ethical positions in an almost religiously fundamentalist fashion and can be accused of being dramatic or dogmatic. Usually this is more a result of their personal presentation and inability to calmly or clearly discuss their position. In neither case is this a reflection of the validity of their views, more the response they receive and the reputation that results. It's even possible some people do 'fetishise' the subject of FOSS/Properietary software. I think this is the case with things like Apple products. However, this does not make the subject any less an ethical issue. If you are serious in phrasing it as a 'fetish' then I'd suggest looking up the difference. That said, I don't know if you are serious and I could be seriously oblivious to a subtle, dry humorous comment. In which case: My big. Regards, Patrick I do not think FOSS vx proprietary software is a moral issue, it is a fettish. Now if others care about your fettish then kewl, and if they are pragmatic in any form words of disapproval are discourteous. Sadly, people these days don't care ... ouch! James -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
