Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer)
Just a couple points but firstly what has static vs DHCP got to do with video editing? I contracted for www.xyzstudios.com, a tv/post studio and the only machine that cost less than 15K was a mic they use for print based stuff. If your dad wants to say record tv and edit it (not the video, just combine, create chapters, record hd tv and play/copy dvd's) I would recommend not bothering with a pc to be honest: my pioneer PictBridge has about 60GB I think, I haven't played around with it too much, but this in conjunction with post software could be good (with output to a tvin card). I can't quite place the advantage of not wanting a static ip address (apart from the aforementioned, transport etc.). Which brings me to the main point: IP6 will it negate the need for DHCP? Cheers Henry -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer)
O Plameras wrote: Just a footnote: one CANNOT register to be authoritative for a set of public ip addresses that one does not own. One has to pay (or be authorized by) the owner of the public ip addresses to use it for the services previously mentioned. Um, I can point www.example.aarnet.edu.au to whatever IP address I care to. I don't need the IP address owner's permission. I do need to be able to update the zone example.aarnet.edu.au, either manually or using dynamic DNS. It's the reverse DNS that the owner of the IP address space controls. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer)
Glen Turner wrote: O Plameras wrote: Just a footnote: one CANNOT register to be authoritative for a set of public ip addresses that one does not own. One has to pay (or be authorized by) the owner of the public ip addresses to use it for the services previously mentioned. Um, I can point www.example.aarnet.edu.au to whatever IP address I care to. I don't need the IP address owner's permission. I do need to be able to update the zone example.aarnet.edu.au, either manually or using dynamic DNS. It's the reverse DNS that the owner of the IP address space controls. So, what happens when you do, www.example.aarnet.edu.au A IN 203.7.132.1 in your live DNS, and I or anyone say at AOL will not successfully access http://www.example.aarnet.edu.au. Do a, # whois 203.7.132.1 and you'll see this ip address is not owned by aarnet.edu.au of course. O Plameras -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer)
On Thu Dec 07, 2006 at 15:17:47 +1100, O Plameras wrote: Glen Turner wrote: O Plameras wrote: Just a footnote: one CANNOT register to be authoritative for a set of public ip addresses that one does not own. One has to pay (or be authorized by) the owner of the public ip addresses to use it for the services previously mentioned. Um, I can point www.example.aarnet.edu.au to whatever IP address I care to. I don't need the IP address owner's permission. I do need to be able to update the zone example.aarnet.edu.au, either manually or using dynamic DNS. It's the reverse DNS that the owner of the IP address space controls. So, what happens when you do, www.example.aarnet.edu.au A IN 203.7.132.1 in your live DNS, The name www.example.aarnet.edu.au will resolve to 203.7.132.1 and I or anyone say at AOL will not successfully access http://www.example.aarnet.edu.au. .ummm, you won't get to successfully access the site as that host doesn't appear to have a webserver running on port 80... Do a, # whois 203.7.132.1 and you'll see this ip address is not owned by aarnet.edu.au of course. Correct! But so what? -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer)
Ben Leslie wrote: On Thu Dec 07, 2006 at 15:17:47 +1100, O Plameras wrote: Glen Turner wrote: O Plameras wrote: Just a footnote: one CANNOT register to be authoritative for a set of public ip addresses that one does not own. One has to pay (or be authorized by) the owner of the public ip addresses to use it for the services previously mentioned. Um, I can point www.example.aarnet.edu.au to whatever IP address I care to. I don't need the IP address owner's permission. I do need to be able to update the zone example.aarnet.edu.au, either manually or using dynamic DNS. It's the reverse DNS that the owner of the IP address space controls. So, what happens when you do, www.example.aarnet.edu.au A IN 203.7.132.1 in your live DNS, The name www.example.aarnet.edu.au will resolve to 203.7.132.1 It will resolve ONLY within aarnet.edu.au but NOT the INTERNET. And even if it resolves within aarnet.edu.au domain users their cannot access successfully http://www.aarnet.edu.au because registration as authorative for a set of public ip address is a process that is a lot more that just having a correct technical entry in your live DNS. and I or anyone say at AOL will not successfully access http://www.example.aarnet.edu.au. .ummm, you won't get to successfully access the site as that host doesn't appear to have a webserver running on port 80... No. You won't be able to reach that point of accessing port 80 because first you have to find the ip address 203.7.132.1. And you won't be able to find the computer hosting www.example.aarnet.edu.au even if there is an entry in aarnet.edu.au DNS. Do a, # whois 203.7.132.1 and you'll see this ip address is not owned by aarnet.edu.au of course. Correct! But so what? Because accessing a WEB server successfully is more that just resolving. For example, your domain must be authorative for that public ip address. This is not like administering a HOME network. It's the INTERNET. What you are effectively saying is you can because 'you can'; then it's like saying you can break-in in to a property because you can, There is enough protection against people who wish to break-in just like there is enough protection against people who wish to attack networks maliciously. Even after you have the entries in your live DNS you still have to go through a process in order that you will be authorized to associate (authorative) www.example.aarnet.edu.au to 203.7.132.1 as far as the INTERNET is concerned. It involves more that one Organizations. Breaking-in is wrong and not allowed by the process. That's why even if it resolves to the number within aarnet.edu.au domain it will not on the INTERNET. That's why this resolution will not produce the desired result namely, access www.example.aarnet.edu.au successfully. I think there is a document that spells out the procedures and rules about this in aunic. O Plameras -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer)
On Thu Dec 07, 2006 at 15:59:45 +1100, O Plameras wrote: Ben Leslie wrote: On Thu Dec 07, 2006 at 15:17:47 +1100, O Plameras wrote: It's the reverse DNS that the owner of the IP address space controls. So, what happens when you do, www.example.aarnet.edu.au A IN 203.7.132.1 in your live DNS, The name www.example.aarnet.edu.au will resolve to 203.7.132.1 It will resolve ONLY within aarnet.edu.au but NOT the INTERNET. Incorrect. And even if it resolves within aarnet.edu.au domain users their cannot access successfully http://www.aarnet.edu.au because registration as authorative for a set of public ip address is a process that is a lot more that just having a correct technical entry in your live DNS. Incorrect. and I or anyone say at AOL will not successfully access http://www.example.aarnet.edu.au. .ummm, you won't get to successfully access the site as that host doesn't appear to have a webserver running on port 80... No. You won't be able to reach that point of accessing port 80 because first you have to find the ip address 203.7.132.1. Incorrect. You can find that ip address. And you won't be able to find the computer hosting www.example.aarnet.edu.au even if there is an entry in aarnet.edu.au DNS. Yes I will. Correct! But so what? Because accessing a WEB server successfully is more that just resolving. Correct! For example, your domain must be authorative for that public ip address. Incorrect! This is not like administering a HOME network. It's the INTERNET. No way! Not the INTERNET! What you are effectively saying is you can because 'you can'; then it's like saying you can break-in in to a property because you can, No that is a very different thing. There is enough protection against people who wish to break-in just like there is enough protection against people who wish to attack networks maliciously. What am I breaking into? Even after you have the entries in your live DNS you still have to go through a process in order that you will be authorized to associate (authorative) www.example.aarnet.edu.au to 203.7.132.1 as far as the INTERNET is concerned. It involves more that one Organizations. Incorrect. Breaking-in is wrong and not allowed by the process. Nothing is being broken into. That's why even if it resolves to the number within aarnet.edu.au domain it will not on the INTERNET. That's why this resolution will not produce the desired result namely, access www.example.aarnet.edu.au successfully. Yes it will. I think there is a document that spells out the procedures and rules about this in aunic. There is no document describing such a process because the process you describe is wrong. DNS is basically just a big map NAME - IP ADDRESS The name bit is kind of divided up into a tree. When you register a domain name you get the right to add any mappings underneath your domain. E.g: I have registered benno.id.au, so I can create any mappings *.benno.id.au - ip address. No one can stop me doing that! I can point any name to any ip address I want! They can exist, not exist, whatever! Now there is also a reverse mapping ip address - name I can't just go and put anything in there. But guess what, for resolving a name, there doesn't need to be a reverse mapping! Benno -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer)
Ben Leslie wrote: On Thu Dec 07, 2006 at 15:59:45 +1100, O Plameras wrote: Ben Leslie wrote: On Thu Dec 07, 2006 at 15:17:47 +1100, O Plameras wrote: It's the reverse DNS that the owner of the IP address space controls. So, what happens when you do, www.example.aarnet.edu.au A IN 203.7.132.1 in your live DNS, The name www.example.aarnet.edu.au will resolve to 203.7.132.1 It will resolve ONLY within aarnet.edu.au but NOT the INTERNET. Incorrect. The authority to associate NAME to ip address has to be propagated up to the ROOT servers. You mean to say that AARNET can do this without the express approval from the owners of 203.7.132.1 ? NO, aarnet.edu.au cannot, otherwise it is against the rules and perhaps against the law. The rest of my responses is implied by the above. O Plameras -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer)
On Thu Dec 07, 2006 at 16:19:47 +1100, O Plameras wrote: Ben Leslie wrote: On Thu Dec 07, 2006 at 15:59:45 +1100, O Plameras wrote: Ben Leslie wrote: On Thu Dec 07, 2006 at 15:17:47 +1100, O Plameras wrote: It's the reverse DNS that the owner of the IP address space controls. So, what happens when you do, www.example.aarnet.edu.au A IN 203.7.132.1 in your live DNS, The name www.example.aarnet.edu.au will resolve to 203.7.132.1 It will resolve ONLY within aarnet.edu.au but NOT the INTERNET. Incorrect. The authority to associate NAME to ip address has to be propagated up to the ROOT servers. You mean to say that AARNET can do this without the express approval from the owners of 203.7.132.1 ? NO, aarnet.edu.au cannot, otherwise it is against the rules and perhaps against the law. Incorrect. For example I have just registered: dns-is-hard.benno.id.au = 203.7.132.1 I did not need express approval from the owners of 203.7.132.1 because that is not how the INTERNET works. Nothing in the internet architecture stops be associating any name (under the domain I own) to any ip address I like. Just to prove a point: slug.benno.id.au = slug website You can even point names to ip addresses not on the INTERNET! Even the the name resolved on the INTERNET! hackme.benno.id.au = 127.0.0.1 The authority to associate NAME with IP is entirely on the NAME side not the IP side. Benno -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Elementary DNS theory (Was: Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer))
O Plameras wrote: The authority to associate NAME to ip address has to be propagated up to the ROOT servers. You mean to say that AARNET can do this without the express approval from the owners of 203.7.132.1 ? NO, aarnet.edu.au cannot, otherwise it is against the rules and perhaps against the law. The rest of my responses is implied by the above. I'd strongly suggest you get hold of a good book on DNS, and find out how it works before trying to explain it to anybody else. I found the introductory chapters of DNS and BIND ( http://safari.oreilly.com/0596100574 ) to be most illuminating. -- Pete -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer)
On Thu, 2006-12-07 at 15:59 +1100, O Plameras wrote: So, what happens when you do, www.example.aarnet.edu.au A IN 203.7.132.1 in your live DNS, The name www.example.aarnet.edu.au will resolve to 203.7.132.1 It will resolve ONLY within aarnet.edu.au but NOT the INTERNET. LOLOLOLOL. Thats made my day. Great joke Oscar. -Rob -- GPG key available at: http://www.robertcollins.net/keys.txt. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Elementary DNS theory (Was: Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer))
Peter Hardy wrote: O Plameras wrote: The authority to associate NAME to ip address has to be propagated up to the ROOT servers. You mean to say that AARNET can do this without the express approval from the owners of 203.7.132.1 ? NO, aarnet.edu.au cannot, otherwise it is against the rules and perhaps against the law. The rest of my responses is implied by the above. I'd strongly suggest you get hold of a good book on DNS, and find out how it works before trying to explain it to anybody else. I found the introductory chapters of DNS and BIND ( http://safari.oreilly.com/0596100574 ) to be most illuminating. I have first, second, and third editions. I have the third edition in front of me. The book covers the technical process. Unfortunately, it does not cover the bureaucratic processes. The processes not covered by the book is the one that I am revealing to you. For example, technically aarnet.edu.au can propagate up to the ROOT Servers. But the bureaucratic process requires this has to be with the approval of the owners of the public ip address others this will not happen. Anyway, can you explain how you do this ? The book on DNS and BIND will not get you anywhere if that's all you will rely on. I made my living (very good living) until I retire doing Domain Name and IP address Administration back during the days when munnari.oz was the authority for Australia until 2001. So, I know what I'm talking about if that's what you're asking. O Plameras -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Elementary DNS theory (Was: Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer))
quote who=O Plameras So, I know what I'm talking about if that's what you're asking. Sorry Oscar, we're not asking you, we're telling you: You don't know what you're talking about. Either you manage to so terribly miscommunicate, or there are deep scars of voodoo throughout your knowledge. You've yet to explain to me what's behind plammered.perkypants.org. - Jeff -- Open CeBIT 2007: Sydney, Australia http://www.opencebit.com.au/ MySQL supporters are like people who believe that the moon landings were a hoax. No matter what contrary information they're confronted with, they still consider MySQL to be the best. - ttfkam -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Elementary DNS theory (Was: Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer))
On Thu Dec 07, 2006 at 16:52:21 +1100, O Plameras wrote: Peter Hardy wrote: O Plameras wrote: The authority to associate NAME to ip address has to be propagated up to the ROOT servers. You mean to say that AARNET can do this without the express approval from the owners of 203.7.132.1 ? NO, aarnet.edu.au cannot, otherwise it is against the rules and perhaps against the law. The rest of my responses is implied by the above. I'd strongly suggest you get hold of a good book on DNS, and find out how it works before trying to explain it to anybody else. I found the introductory chapters of DNS and BIND ( http://safari.oreilly.com/0596100574 ) to be most illuminating. I have first, second, and third editions. I have the third edition in front of me. The book covers the technical process. Unfortunately, it does not cover the bureaucratic processes. The processes not covered by the book is the one that I am revealing to you. For example, technically aarnet.edu.au can propagate up to the ROOT Servers. Technically aarnet.edu.au doesn't need to propagate anything up to the ROOT servers. That is not the way DNS works, rather the client contacts the ROOT servers and then goes down from there (ignoring any caching). So really, aarnet.edu.au doesn't need to propagate anything at all. B -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Elementary DNS theory (Was: Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer))
On 12/7/06, Jeff Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: quote who=O Plameras So, I know what I'm talking about if that's what you're asking. Sorry Oscar, we're not asking you, we're telling you: You don't know what you're talking about. Either you manage to so terribly miscommunicate, or there are deep scars of voodoo throughout your knowledge. You've yet to explain to me what's behind plammered.perkypants.org. I hope it's nothing bad - I'd hate to piss the boss off by doing it from work. :-) DaZZa -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Elementary DNS theory (Was: Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer))
Ben Leslie wrote: On Thu Dec 07, 2006 at 16:52:21 +1100, O Plameras wrote: Peter Hardy wrote: O Plameras wrote: The authority to associate NAME to ip address has to be propagated up to the ROOT servers. You mean to say that AARNET can do this without the express approval from the owners of 203.7.132.1 ? NO, aarnet.edu.au cannot, otherwise it is against the rules and perhaps against the law. The rest of my responses is implied by the above. I'd strongly suggest you get hold of a good book on DNS, and find out how it works before trying to explain it to anybody else. I found the introductory chapters of DNS and BIND ( http://safari.oreilly.com/0596100574 ) to be most illuminating. I have first, second, and third editions. I have the third edition in front of me. The book covers the technical process. Unfortunately, it does not cover the bureaucratic processes. The processes not covered by the book is the one that I am revealing to you. For example, technically aarnet.edu.au can propagate up to the ROOT Servers. Technically aarnet.edu.au doesn't need to propagate anything up to the ROOT servers. That is not the way DNS works, rather the client contacts the ROOT servers and then goes down from there (ignoring any caching). So really, aarnet.edu.au doesn't need to propagate anything at all. Do you mean once aarnet.edu.au enters www.example.aarnet.edu.au IN A 203.7.132.1 it will be propagated ? This is wrong. aarnet.edu.au is only a branch in the DNS trees. What does aarnet.edu.au has to do to propagate ? If you can answer this last question correctly then we can proceed with the discussion. O Plameras -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Elementary DNS theory (Was: Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer))
On Thu Dec 07, 2006 at 17:08:37 +1100, O Plameras wrote: So really, aarnet.edu.au doesn't need to propagate anything at all. Do you mean once aarnet.edu.au enters www.example.aarnet.edu.au IN A 203.7.132.1 it will be propagated ? This is wrong. aarnet.edu.au is only a branch in the DNS trees. What does aarnet.edu.au has to do to propagate ? If you can answer this last question correctly then we can proceed with the discussion. There is nothing to propagate! No propagation occurs. Ixnay on the opagationpray. I give up. Benno -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Elementary DNS theory (Was: Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer))
On 07/12/06, O Plameras [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter Hardy wrote: O Plameras wrote: The authority to associate NAME to ip address has to be propagated up to the ROOT servers. You mean to say that AARNET can do this without the express approval from the owners of 203.7.132.1 ? NO, aarnet.edu.au cannot, otherwise it is against the rules and perhaps against the law. What rules? What law? There is nothing, technical or otherwise, preventing anyone with control over a domain name server from putting any type of record under their domain which resolves to any value they like, it happens all the time openly on the net. I'd strongly suggest you get hold of a good book on DNS, and find out how it works before trying to explain it to anybody else. I found the introductory chapters of DNS and BIND ( http://safari.oreilly.com/0596100574 ) to be most illuminating. I have first, second, and third editions. I have the third edition in front of me. You have all these books and still didn't get something I could understand from reading the RFC's as a young programmer fresh out of high school? The book covers the technical process. Unfortunately, it does not cover the bureaucratic processes. The processes not covered by the book is the one that I am revealing to you. The technical process is what matters here. bind isn't going to send cops to arrest you if it finds that you created an A record from your domain which points to an IP address which isn't under your control and for that matter, even if the cops DO come knocking at your door there is no law according to which they can charge you of any wrongdoing. How do you think dyndns and no-ip.org work? Another question - what would be the rational for a limitation such as you describe? For example, technically aarnet.edu.au can propagate up to the ROOT Servers. But the bureaucratic process requires this has to be with the approval of the owners of the public ip address others this will not happen. A friend of mine created an A record for my static IP address (issued to me by my ISP) from his private domain. That name was (for the sake of this discussion) xxx.bard.org.il. It still resolves to that (no longer relevant) IP address today and trace-routing to the xxx.bard.org.il will correctly reach some place which probably inherited my static IP address after I left that ISP. REVERSE mapping won't work because the ISP is the only one with control over the .in-addr.arpa sub-domain for the network block assigned to it. Maybe I could ask them nicely to add another PTR record from that IP address back to xxx.bard.org.il but it's at their discretion to decide whether they like the colour of my eyes or the font on my fax and do it or not. No laws or IETF rules involved here. Anyway, can you explain how you do this ? The book on DNS and BIND will not get you anywhere if that's all you will rely on. It will get you everywhere. No need for any beaurocracy. I made my living (very good living) until I retire doing Domain Name and IP address Administration back during the days when munnari.oz was the authority for Australia until 2001. So, I know what I'm talking about if that's what you're asking. And I edited zone files of a major university already back in 1991, so what? Things change. Maybe you want to refresh your memory. Just please give a concrete pointer to substantiate your claims because so far it seems your are outnumbered 2-1. Cheers, --P -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Elementary DNS theory (Was: Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer))
DaZZa wrote: On 12/7/06, Jeff Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: quote who=O Plameras So, I know what I'm talking about if that's what you're asking. Sorry Oscar, we're not asking you, we're telling you: You don't know what you're talking about. Either you manage to so terribly miscommunicate, or there are deep scars of voodoo throughout your knowledge. You've yet to explain to me what's behind plammered.perkypants.org. I hope it's nothing bad - I'd hate to piss the boss off by doing it from work. :-) Hi Dazza, Sorry, I have not received the post you are responding. I am not responding to your post but the Jeff Waugh's post requires a respond from me. Jeff Waugh is a person who does not know to argue on the merits of arguments. So, what does he do ? He reverts to insults and abuse. I'm not going to be sucked into this again, never. Jeff Waugh has threatened me off list before but I did not allow him to. So, he use insults and abuses. O Plameras -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Elementary DNS theory (Was: Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer))
On 07/12/06, O Plameras [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DaZZa wrote: On 12/7/06, Jeff Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: quote who=O Plameras So, I know what I'm talking about if that's what you're asking. Sorry Oscar, we're not asking you, we're telling you: You don't know what you're talking about. Either you manage to so terribly miscommunicate, or there are deep scars of voodoo throughout your knowledge. You've yet to explain to me what's behind plammered.perkypants.org. I hope it's nothing bad - I'd hate to piss the boss off by doing it from work. :-) Hi Dazza, Sorry, I have not received the post you are responding. I am not responding to your post but the Jeff Waugh's post requires a respond from me. Jeff Waugh is a person who does not know to argue on the merits of arguments. So, what does he do ? He reverts to insults and abuse. I'm not going to be sucked into this again, never. Jeff Waugh has threatened me off list before but I did not allow him to. So, he use insults and abuses. Here is what's behind the host Jeff is asking about: $ dig plammered.perkypants.org ; DiG 9.3.2-P1 plammered.perkypants.org ;; global options: printcmd ;; Got answer: ;; -HEADER- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 45825 ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 2, ADDITIONAL: 2 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;plammered.perkypants.org. IN A ;; ANSWER SECTION: plammered.perkypants.org. 86400 IN A 203.122.110.35 ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: perkypants.org. 58427 IN NS node.waugh.id.au. perkypants.org. 58427 IN NS spoon.solutionsfirst.com.au. ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION: node.waugh.id.au. 49784 IN A 70.85.31.216 spoon.solutionsfirst.com.au. 6179 INA 61.8.3.181 ;; Query time: 187 msec ;; SERVER: 211.29.132.12#53(211.29.132.12) ;; WHEN: Thu Dec 7 17:19:19 2006 ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 159 All Jeff did was to give a concrete example which should contradict your claim. You said that this (pointing to 203.122.110.35 from perkypants.org) is against some rules or law. Jeff did it. The record he gives resolves correctly for me (though I don't see a web site on the standard port on that address). If he broke some rules or law (as you claim) - what's going to happen to him now? Cheers, --P -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Elementary DNS theory (Was: Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer))
quote who=DaZZa You've yet to explain to me what's behind plammered.perkypants.org. I hope it's nothing bad - I'd hate to piss the boss off by doing it from work. :-) It resolves to the IP address Oscar is posting from (which just happens to have an ssh server running on it). So, were his theories correct, I would not be able to set up plammered.perkypants.org to resolve to an IP address in his ISP's network range. I have no idea how he got that impression at all, but he has yet to explain it, or plammered.perkypants.org. So I guess we just wait for him to figure things out for himself again. :-) - Jeff -- linux.conf.au 2007: Sydney, Australia http://lca2007.linux.org.au/ One in 10 Europeans is allegedly conceived in an Ikea bed. - BBC News, 2005 -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Elementary DNS theory (Was: Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer))
On 12/7/06, O Plameras [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DaZZa wrote: On 12/7/06, Jeff Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: quote who=O Plameras So, I know what I'm talking about if that's what you're asking. Sorry Oscar, we're not asking you, we're telling you: You don't know what you're talking about. Either you manage to so terribly miscommunicate, or there are deep scars of voodoo throughout your knowledge. You've yet to explain to me what's behind plammered.perkypants.org. I hope it's nothing bad - I'd hate to piss the boss off by doing it from work. :-) Hi Dazza, Sorry, I have not received the post you are responding. I am not responding to your post but the Jeff Waugh's post requires a respond from me. Jeff Waugh is a person who does not know to argue on the merits of arguments. So, what does he do ? He reverts to insults and abuse. I'm not going to be sucked into this again, never. Jeff Waugh has threatened me off list before but I did not allow him to. So, he use insults and abuses. Oscar. As much as I've had my differences with Jeff in the past, and whatever as my personal opinion of him may be or not be, I can't find a single thing in his emails which I would classify as insults or abuse. He asked you a question, as a demonstrative response to a statement made by yourself which is plainly wrong. You haven't answered him. Hell, you haven't answered anyone's comments except to claim you managed DNS's for years and know what you're doing. You plainly don't understand how DNS works. I don't know if you did in the days when you claim to have managed multiple DNS servers before you retired, but you sure don't understand it now. Read what everyone else is saying in response to your ridiculous claims before you accuse Jeff of abusing you. DaZZa -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Elementary DNS theory (Was: Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer))
On 12/7/06, Jeff Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: quote who=DaZZa You've yet to explain to me what's behind plammered.perkypants.org. I hope it's nothing bad - I'd hate to piss the boss off by doing it from work. :-) It resolves to the IP address Oscar is posting from (which just happens to have an ssh server running on it). So, were his theories correct, I would not be able to set up plammered.perkypants.org to resolve to an IP address in his ISP's network range. I have no idea how he got that impression at all, but he has yet to explain it, or plammered.perkypants.org. So I guess we just wait for him to figure things out for himself again. :-) Ahhh, that's OK then. Just as long as I don't have some big bad lawyer banging on the door demanding to know why I was trying to hack their system. :-) DaZZa -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Elementary DNS theory (Was: Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer))
O Plameras wrote: Ben Leslie wrote: On Thu Dec 07, 2006 at 16:52:21 +1100, O Plameras wrote: *snip* I have first, second, and third editions. I have the third edition in front of me. The book covers the technical process. Unfortunately, it does not cover the bureaucratic processes. The processes not covered by the book is the one that I am revealing to you. For example, technically aarnet.edu.au can propagate up to the ROOT Servers. Technically aarnet.edu.au doesn't need to propagate anything up to the ROOT servers. That is not the way DNS works, rather the client contacts the ROOT servers and then goes down from there (ignoring any caching). So really, aarnet.edu.au doesn't need to propagate anything at all. Do you mean once aarnet.edu.au enters www.example.aarnet.edu.au IN A 203.7.132.1 it will be propagated ? This is wrong. aarnet.edu.au is only a branch in the DNS trees. What does aarnet.edu.au has to do to propagate ? If you can answer this last question correctly then we can proceed with the discussion. How does a query propagate? Well, to paraphrase Section 2.6.2 of that book that's right in front of you(*): - The local nameserver gets a request for www.example.aarnet.edu.au. It doesn't know where this is, but it does know where all the root nameservers are. So it picks one of those and asks it. - The root nameserver says, no, I have no idea where www.example.aarnet.edu.au is. But I do have this list of nameservers that are authoritative for the .au domain, maybe one of them can help you. The local nameserver picks one, and sends the query for www.example.aarnet.edu.au to it. - The .au nameserver says, no, I have no idea where www.example.aarnet.edu.au is. But I do have this list of nameservers that are authoritative for the edu.au domain, maybe one of them can help you. The local nameserver picks one, and sends the query for www.example.aarnet.edu.au to it. - The edu.au nameserver says, no, I have no idea where www.example.aarnet.edu.au is. But I do have this list of nameservers that are authoritative for the aarnet.edu.au domain, maybe one of them can help you. The local nameserver picks one, and sends the query for www.example.aarnet.edu.au to it. Do you see where this is going? The query keeps propagating down different levels until it finally hits a server who says Ooo! I *know* this one! and replies. It sounds like a lot of traffic, but the local nameserver also caches all of those replies it got along the way to resolving that query. So if the next query it gets is for, say, www.monash.edu.au, the local nameserver will say I don't know where that is, but I've already got this list of .edu.au nameservers that is still fresh in my cache, I'll ask one of those. In a perfect world, the root servers wouldn't get that much traffic at all, really, thanks to caching. But there's a *lot* of poorly configured nameservers out there. http://www.bind9.net/dnshealth/ makes the claim that 98% of queries to the root servers are unnecessary, and is full of lots of other interesting DNS-related factoids. Anyway, the point of all of this is, *all* of the propagation in DNS happens downwards. The root nameservers seriously don't know the first thing about subdomains of aarnet.edu.au, and you can verify this by sending a non-recursive query to one (using the +norecurse option to dig, for example). Not only do they not know whether a particular subdomain exists, they really don't care whether the object it resolves to (not all DNS records are IP addresses...) belongs to the domain owner, or Dexter Plameras, or whether it even exists on the public Internet at all. I desperately hope this clears up any misunderstandings. * I have the fourth edition. May be slightly different for others. Cheers, -- Pete -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Elementary DNS theory (Was: Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer))
Penedo wrote: On 07/12/06, O Plameras [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter Hardy wrote: O Plameras wrote: The authority to associate NAME to ip address has to be propagated up to the ROOT servers. You mean to say that AARNET can do this without the express approval from the owners of 203.7.132.1 ? NO, aarnet.edu.au cannot, otherwise it is against the rules and perhaps against the law. What rules? What law? There is nothing, technical or otherwise, preventing anyone with control over a domain name server from putting any type of record under their domain which resolves to any value they like, it happens all the time openly on the net. I'd strongly suggest you get hold of a good book on DNS, and find out how it works before trying to explain it to anybody else. I found the introductory chapters of DNS and BIND ( http://safari.oreilly.com/0596100574 ) to be most illuminating. I have first, second, and third editions. I have the third edition in front of me. You have all these books and still didn't get something I could understand from reading the RFC's as a young programmer fresh out of high school? The book covers the technical process. Unfortunately, it does not cover the bureaucratic processes. The processes not covered by the book is the one that I am revealing to you. The technical process is what matters here. bind isn't going to send cops to arrest you if it finds that you created an A record from your domain which points to an IP address which isn't under your control and for that matter, even if the cops DO come knocking at your door there is no law according to which they can charge you of any wrongdoing. How do you think dyndns and no-ip.org work? Another question - what would be the rational for a limitation such as you describe? For example, technically aarnet.edu.au can propagate up to the ROOT Servers. But the bureaucratic process requires this has to be with the approval of the owners of the public ip address others this will not happen. A friend of mine created an A record for my static IP address (issued to me by my ISP) from his private domain. That name was (for the sake of this discussion) xxx.bard.org.il. It still resolves to that (no longer relevant) IP address today and trace-routing to the xxx.bard.org.il will correctly reach some place which probably inherited my static IP address after I left that ISP. REVERSE mapping won't work because the ISP is the only one with control over the .in-addr.arpa sub-domain for the network block assigned to it. Maybe I could ask them nicely to add another PTR record from that IP address back to xxx.bard.org.il but it's at their discretion to decide whether they like the colour of my eyes or the font on my fax and do it or not. No laws or IETF rules involved here. Anyway, can you explain how you do this ? The book on DNS and BIND will not get you anywhere if that's all you will rely on. It will get you everywhere. No need for any beaurocracy. I made my living (very good living) until I retire doing Domain Name and IP address Administration back during the days when munnari.oz was the authority for Australia until 2001. So, I know what I'm talking about if that's what you're asking. And I edited zone files of a major university already back in 1991, so what? Things change. Maybe you want to refresh your memory. Just please give a concrete pointer to substantiate your claims because so far it seems your are outnumbered 2-1. Because you don't understand that to be authoritative it involves technical as well as bureaucratice processes. You only know the technical aspect of it. The technical aspect of the job is the easiest. If everybody can be authoritative by doing what J Waugh had done there will be chaos on the internet. The whole point: perkypants.org is not authoritative for plammered.perkypants.org. I know how he does this. But fortunately, perkypants.org cannot make a commercial proposition out of these activities. If perkypants.org makes money by using someone else public ip address without authority this is stealing. Again, just because you can, you do. Just as because you can hack someones Server you do. Plameras -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Elementary DNS theory (Was: Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer))
On Thu, Dec 07, 2006 at 06:04:03PM +1100, O Plameras wrote: Plameras Hi all, This thread is done! Any further posts to the list on this thread by 18.20 today will put the list into full moderation mode for the next 3 days. Your friendly list admins, SLUG committee -- http://slug.org.au/ (Sydney Linux Users Group) http://lca2007.linux.org.au/ (linux.conf.au 2007) http://holmwood.id.au/~lindsay/ (me) -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Elementary DNS theory (Was: Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer))
Peter Hardy wrote: O Plameras wrote: Ben Leslie wrote: On Thu Dec 07, 2006 at 16:52:21 +1100, O Plameras wrote: *snip* I have first, second, and third editions. I have the third edition in front of me. The book covers the technical process. Unfortunately, it does not cover the bureaucratic processes. The processes not covered by the book is the one that I am revealing to you. For example, technically aarnet.edu.au can propagate up to the ROOT Servers. Technically aarnet.edu.au doesn't need to propagate anything up to the ROOT servers. That is not the way DNS works, rather the client contacts the ROOT servers and then goes down from there (ignoring any caching). So really, aarnet.edu.au doesn't need to propagate anything at all. Do you mean once aarnet.edu.au enters www.example.aarnet.edu.au IN A 203.7.132.1 it will be propagated ? This is wrong. aarnet.edu.au is only a branch in the DNS trees. What does aarnet.edu.au has to do to propagate ? If you can answer this last question correctly then we can proceed with the discussion. How does a query propagate? Well, to paraphrase Section 2.6.2 of that book that's right in front of you(*): The KEYWORD here is authority as I explained in one previous post. O Plameras -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Elementary DNS theory (Was: Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer))
On Thu Dec 07, 2006 at 18:04:03 +1100, O Plameras wrote: Penedo wrote: On 07/12/06, O Plameras [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Because you don't understand that to be authoritative it involves technical as well as bureaucratice processes. You only know the technical aspect of it. The technical aspect of the job is the easiest. Please tell me the bureaucratic process. A link to some site explaining it. People set up nameservers and names all the time, it must be published somewhere. Please enlighten us! If everybody can be authoritative by doing what J Waugh had done there will be chaos on the internet. CHAOS ON THE INTERNET! SNAKES ON A PLANE ! But seriously, the internet is like this, and it seems to work reasonably well. The whole point: perkypants.org is not authoritative for plammered.perkypants.org. I know how he does this. Yes it is that is the whole point. The nameserver that is associated with perkypants.org is authoritative for plammered.perkypants.org Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain_name_system) explains this quite well. Ok, lets just turn this all around, if Jeff's nameserver is *not* authoritative for plammered.perkypants.org please tell me which server is. But fortunately, perkypants.org cannot make a commercial proposition out of these activities. If perkypants.org makes money by using someone else public ip address without authority this is stealing. I'm not sure where money came into this. How / why would Jeff be making a commercial proposition out of these activities? Again, just because you can, you do. Just as because you can hack someones Server you do. I don't. You might. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've done this 3 times, once in the UK (from here) so I'm really certain about my opinion: Get an ADSL ethernet router, with firewall and dhcp Do anything with the computer (but use dhcp) For a long time, I had wanted to ask: why use DHCP in home networks when one can use STATIC ip (using private network ip addresses)? Is it not that DHCP is mainly used in situations with the following combinations of circumstances ? 1. Networks with large numbers of workstations that are not permanently on line (e.g. customers-workstations-of ISP that connect only when required). 3. There are more workstations (customers) than there are public ip numbers available in an ISP. 4. Prevent customers of ISP from running WWW(FTP,MTA,etc) sites without paying for fixed ip number(s). Just curious to know, why. O Plameras -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer)
quote who=O Plameras For a long time, I had wanted to ask: why use DHCP in home networks when one can use STATIC ip (using private network ip addresses)? Just curious to know, why. Because DHCP makes your network just work and doesn't inflict the need to understand IP addresses and subnets on unsuspecting users. Hooray for little home network routers that do all of this out of the box. No mucking around. - Jeff -- linux.conf.au 2007: Sydney, Australia http://lca2007.linux.org.au/ Broken hearts rarely come with Some Assembly Required stickers. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer)
I would like to add my support to Jeffs comments. There may be a few minor downsides to dhcp, but the advantages of plug and play home networks overwhelmingly outweigh the alternative. Some ip routers (only dlink that i have seen) will also allow for static leases which can negate many of the few advantages of static. also a nice ip/adsl router adds some measure of security to windows rather than letting windows do pppoe and expose itself entirely. Dean Jeff Waugh wrote: quote who=O Plameras For a long time, I had wanted to ask: why use DHCP in home networks when one can use STATIC ip (using private network ip addresses)? Just curious to know, why. Because DHCP makes your network just work and doesn't inflict the need to understand IP addresses and subnets on unsuspecting users. Hooray for little home network routers that do all of this out of the box. No mucking around. - Jeff -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer)
O Plameras wrote: For a long time, I had wanted to ask: why use DHCP in home networks when one can use STATIC ip (using private network ip addresses)? Is it not that DHCP is mainly used in situations with the following combinations of circumstances ? 1. Networks with large numbers of workstations that are not permanently on line (e.g. customers-workstations-of ISP that connect only when required). 3. There are more workstations (customers) than there are public ip numbers available in an ISP. These are both valid uses, although I'm curious to know what happened to number 2. :-) 4. Prevent customers of ISP from running WWW(FTP,MTA,etc) sites without paying for fixed ip number(s). Sorry? How does a dynamic address help here? Dynamic DNS services make actually locating a service a snap. Only effective firewalling prevents access to the service. But, to answer your question, DHCP makes networking easy. Routers come preconfigured with working DHCP server. All the user has to know is to plug in to the switch and configure their computer to find an IP address automatically. Seeing as that's the default for Windows and most Linux installers, home networking has become pretty much a no-brainer unless you *want* to get your hands dirty in it. -- Pete -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer)
Peter Hardy wrote: O Plameras wrote: For a long time, I had wanted to ask: why use DHCP in home networks when one can use STATIC ip (using private network ip addresses)? Is it not that DHCP is mainly used in situations with the following combinations of circumstances ? 1. Networks with large numbers of workstations that are not permanently on line (e.g. customers-workstations-of ISP that connect only when required). 3. There are more workstations (customers) than there are public ip numbers available in an ISP. These are both valid uses, although I'm curious to know what happened to number 2. :-) Sticky fingers. 4. Prevent customers of ISP from running WWW(FTP,MTA,etc) sites without paying for fixed ip number(s). Sorry? How does a dynamic address help here? Dynamic DNS services make actually locating a service a snap. Only effective firewalling prevents access to the service. Clarification; prevent users from using the services for profit without paying for public ip addresses. For users to access a WWW site say, 'www.domain.com.au'(FQDN) one must have DNS entries in one or more DNS servers with 'www.domain.com.au' with ip address like 203.7.132.1 or 'www.domain.com.au' with ip address like 203.7.132.0/32, etc. Of course, users can put ip address instead of FQDN but it means that each time your server is disconnected and re-connected the users have to use different ip addresses to access your service. Not suitable for commercial operations. If you have an alternative can you show us ? But, to answer your question, DHCP makes networking easy. Routers come preconfigured with working DHCP server. All the user has to know is to plug in to the switch and configure their computer to find an IP address automatically. Seeing as that's the default for Windows and most Linux installers, home networking has become pretty much a no-brainer unless you *want* to get your hands dirty in it. OK for off-the-shelf routers. What about Linux boxes configured as routers because one does not wish to pay anymore for a black-box modem/router apart from just ADSL modem ? One still has to configure DHCP. O Plameras -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer)
quote who=O Plameras What about Linux boxes configured as routers because one does not wish to pay anymore for a black-box modem/router apart from just ADSL modem ? One still has to configure DHCP. ... which is simple and straight-forward and well worth it. If you find it difficult to configure DHCP manually, you can use things like webmin to give you a configuration interface. - Jeff -- linux.conf.au 2007: Sydney, Australia http://lca2007.linux.org.au/ W.O.R.K: Weekend Over, Resume the Killings. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer)
O Plameras wrote: Peter Hardy wrote: O Plameras wrote: 4. Prevent customers of ISP from running WWW(FTP,MTA,etc) sites without paying for fixed ip number(s). Sorry? How does a dynamic address help here? Dynamic DNS services make actually locating a service a snap. Only effective firewalling prevents access to the service. Clarification; prevent users from using the services for profit without paying for public ip addresses. For users to access a WWW site say, 'www.domain.com.au'(FQDN) one must have DNS entries in one or more DNS servers with 'www.domain.com.au' with ip address like 203.7.132.1 or 'www.domain.com.au' with ip address like 203.7.132.0/32, etc. Of course, users can put ip address instead of FQDN but it means that each time your server is disconnected and re-connected the users have to use different ip addresses to access your service. Not suitable for commercial operations. If you have an alternative can you show us ? Uh, I mentioned dynamic DNS in passing earlier. The Linux DHCP client has hooks built in to issue DNS updates whenever it gets a new lease. Another alternative is a daemon that polls the IP address and updates a service like http://dyndns.org/ whenever it notices the IP address changing. I'm using one of these to point casa.dyndns.tv at my ADSL link, which is notorious for changing its address a dozen times on a bad day. But the hostname always resolves to the current address, and there's very little stopping me from registering, say, stibbonsmegacorp.com, putting a zone on an external name server (like, say, the free service offered by xname.org), and CNAMEing it to my dyndns hostname. No, I don't consider it terribly suitable for a commercial operation either, but there's no pressing technical reason why not. But really, this is getting why out of scope for a discussion on DHCP. But, to answer your question, DHCP makes networking easy. Routers come preconfigured with working DHCP server. All the user has to know is to plug in to the switch and configure their computer to find an IP address automatically. Seeing as that's the default for Windows and most Linux installers, home networking has become pretty much a no-brainer unless you *want* to get your hands dirty in it. OK for off-the-shelf routers. What about Linux boxes configured as routers because one does not wish to pay anymore for a black-box modem/router apart from just ADSL modem ? One still has to configure DHCP. ...then there's a good chance that you *want* to get your hands dirty in networking. But, if not, configuring a DHCP server means you only have to do your network setup once. -- Pete -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer)
What about Linux boxes configured as routers because one does not wish to pay anymore for a black-box modem/router apart from just ADSL modem ? One still has to configure DHCP. i would suggest that an adsl router versus adsl modem do not differ significantly. infact the dlink 'adsl modem' that i have seen in recent optus adsl setups is a 2 port adsl router, 2 ethernet ports with out internally hardwired to a usb ethernet adapter finding an adsl modem is nearly as hard as finding an ip router without wireless =\ Dean -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer)
On Wednesday 06 December 2006 09:48, you wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've done this 3 times, once in the UK (from here) so I'm really certain about my opinion: Get an ADSL ethernet router, with firewall and dhcp Do anything with the computer (but use dhcp) For a long time, I had wanted to ask: why use DHCP in home networks when one can use STATIC ip (using private network ip addresses)? Is it not that DHCP is mainly used in situations with the following combinations of circumstances ? 1. Networks with large numbers of workstations that are not permanently on line (e.g. customers-workstations-of ISP that connect only when required). 3. There are more workstations (customers) than there are public ip numbers available in an ISP. 4. Prevent customers of ISP from running WWW(FTP,MTA,etc) sites without paying for fixed ip number(s). Just curious to know, why. Because dumb-installs use it (both every l I've played with, so does w) The naive (my father in law eg) does not need to concern his overwhelmed mind with gateways and nameservers etc It Just Works The context of this thread was exactly that. In fact my father-in-law got the book ubuntu for idiots (or similar) installed and everything Just Worked. Major achievement. James -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer)
Howard Lowndes wrote: I think the best reason to use DHCP on networks is to advertise network services or options, even for workstations that have static IP addresses tied to MAC addresses. Thus if you change such things as DNS servers, NTP servers, WINS servers, etc. then all workstations gain consistent configuration. Why would you want to do anything else, esp using fully static configurations. OK, let's say, for a moment, one use DHCP to assign ip addresses to Workstations. What about your local servers ? Do you use STATIC ip addresses for your local Servers at all that provide services like WWW, MySQL, PostgresSQL, Address Directory, local DNS, Auth servers, and other local services ? If not, how do you handle Server Services ? Use FQDN or ip addresses to access services ? O Plameras -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer)
quote who=O Plameras OK, let's say, for a moment, one use DHCP to assign ip addresses to Workstations. What about your local servers ? Do you use STATIC ip addresses for your local Servers at all that provide services like WWW, MySQL, PostgresSQL, Address Directory, local DNS, Auth servers, and other local services ? If not, how do you handle Server Services ? Use FQDN or ip addresses to access services ? You can use DHCP or static addresses for your servers, it's up to you. In some cases I use static (for network sensitive services such as DHCP and DNS), in some cases I don't (DHCP assignment of static addresses for, say, my fileserver or TV box). As long as your DNS setup is fine, you're done. - Jeff -- linux.conf.au 2007: Sydney, Australia http://lca2007.linux.org.au/ Orphaned farm-boy hero helps save world against bad-guys, begins a journey of self-discovery, and makes interesting friends. Passable. - Andrew Bennetts on Star Wars -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Howard Lowndes wrote: O Plameras wrote: If not, how do you handle Server Services ? Use FQDN or ip addresses to access services ? No, they use a recursive network DNS service in the normal way, which DNS service could be combined with the DHCP server (my preferred option together with the network NTP service), or is the first server that is brought up after the DHCP server has booted, where they are separate entities. While not the best fit for everyone, recently I've been using avahi/mdns/zeroconf/bonjour for name resolution for all computers in my home network. Windows, Mac OS X, Linux all happily figuring out hostnames by themselves. That combined with DHCP and some upnp on the router (again, not for everyone, but good for me), I hardly have to spend anytime setting up networking stuff at home anymore (and I'm somebody who used to have a server acting as gateway/proxy/firewall/dns/caching dns/smtp gateway). - -- dave. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFdjHbhPPdWeHRgaoRArbFAJ41NpCvg561+HCW0oKx394/ioDMswCbBqfL 3X5jhSmD7JyhvP/xW322Mrk= =BDst -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer)
On Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 11:59:42 +1100, Jeff Waugh wrote: quote who=O Plameras For a long time, I had wanted to ask: why use DHCP in home networks when one can use STATIC ip (using private network ip addresses)? Just curious to know, why. Because DHCP makes your network just work and doesn't inflict the need to understand IP addresses and subnets on unsuspecting users. Hooray for little home network routers that do all of this out of the box. No mucking around. And also when moving between networks with a laptop it makes life much easier to just have everywhere use dhcp. Cheers, Benno -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer)
Peter Hardy wrote: Uh, I mentioned dynamic DNS in passing earlier. The Linux DHCP client has hooks built in to issue DNS updates whenever it gets a new lease. Another alternative is a daemon that polls the IP address and updates a service like http://dyndns.org/ whenever it notices the IP address changing. I'm using one of these to point casa.dyndns.tv at my ADSL link, which is notorious for changing its address a dozen times on a bad day. But the hostname always resolves to the current address, and there's very little stopping me from registering, say, stibbonsmegacorp.com, putting a zone on an external name server (like, say, the free service offered by xname.org), and CNAMEing it to my dyndns hostname. No, I don't consider it terribly suitable for a commercial operation either, but there's no pressing technical reason why not. But really, this is getting why out of scope for a discussion on DHCP. Just a footnote: one CANNOT register to be authoritative for a set of public ip addresses that one does not own. One has to pay (or be authorized by) the owner of the public ip addresses to use it for the services previously mentioned. O Plameras -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer)
On 06/12/06, O Plameras [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you use STATIC ip addresses for your local Servers at all that provide services like WWW, MySQL, PostgresSQL, Address Directory, local DNS, Auth servers, and other local services ? What I do is to assign an IP address to my Debian machine in /etc/network/interfaces which is outside the dynamic IP range allocated by my ADSL modem/router. I did this after failing to find a way to tell the modem/router to always assign a particular IP address to my linux box (based on its ethernet address). I statically forward ports I wish to serve from my linux box (ssh, http) to that static internal address and use no-ip.org to assign a name to the IP address I get from my ISP. Does anyone know whether it is possible to configure a D-Link 504G (firmware R2.01.B24.AU(030917a/Y1.21.1)) to always assign a specific IP address to a particular ether net card? --P -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer)
Howard Lowndes wrote: Let's call them fixed IP addresses rather than static IP addresses as they are fixed to the MAC address OK, 'fixed' ip address is the more appropriate term. All servers except the DHCP server itself have fixed IP addresses sourced from the DHCP server along with the network configuration options, that fixed IP address is registered in the DHCP server as being associated with the MAC address of the discovering server. OK, so DHCP must be configured to include MAC address to assign the same ip address to a specific computer every time that computer is booted up so it's ip address will remain the same all the time. O Plameras -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Modems vs Routers (Re: Why DHCP ? (WAS: Re: [SLUG] My father wants an inexpensive computer))
On 12/6/06, Dean Hamstead [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about Linux boxes configured as routers because one does not wish to pay anymore for a black-box modem/router apart from just ADSL modem ? One still has to configure DHCP. i would suggest that an adsl router versus adsl modem do not differ significantly. infact the dlink 'adsl modem' that i have seen in recent optus adsl setups is a 2 port adsl router, 2 ethernet ports with out internally hardwired to a usb ethernet adapter finding an adsl modem is nearly as hard as finding an ip router without wireless =\ There's a big difference between a modem and a router, which I'm not going to bother defining here (check your CCNA reference material, or wikipedia, for details). There is, admittedly, a lot of confusion in slang/common/gardern/non-techinical usage of the two terms though, and as you've said, it's not helped by the fact that almost all *DSL devices perform both functions. I saw a DSL modem in Tricky Dicky's on the weekend and started gushing loudly about how cute it was, which for some reason got me weird looks from staff.. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
