[RCSE] Re: Airfoil flight comparison( HN-216)?
Looked like Michael is right. According to Profili, it's VERY similar to the RG-15. I checked it out at re*sqrt(CL)=100k and 150k. (That is, equivalent to a sailplane which is at Reynold's number of 100k and 150k when flying at Cl of 1) The two lines are just about right on top of each other. HN-216 appears microscopically better between Cl of 0.1 and 0.8, very slightly worse above Cl of 0.8. But I'm guessing one swipe with 220 grit sandpaper would make more difference! I didn't check with flaps and perhaps the program would show a difference there. (Profili is a user friendly interface for Xfoil.) Richard Burnoski wrote: Ok guys, Can anyone tell me anything about the way this airfoil = performs? HN-216 In speed ? In duration? In distance? What airfoil would it compare to of the ones we use now? So many airfoils so little time. Thanks, Richard RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re: Airfoil flight comparison( HN-216)?
Gentlemen, I would like your feedback on something I created last season in a bit of a whim. I have been competing at various TD tasks in the Northwest over the last 3 years. Over this time I have witnessed far too many launches where the pilot after the fact admitted that he/she did not turn on the aircraft. Needless to say most of the aircraft were lost or seriously damaged. So in search of a solution I went to a local electronics shop and asked a young guy if he could give me a hand designing a safety component that might help avoid this scenario. Basically we designed a switch with a small tilt sensor and some latching circuitry. The result is this: If you remember to turn on the plane the switch works as expected. The plane powers on and off as it would normally. If you turn OFF the plane and tilt the aircraft in the desired launch angle ( this is set by the pilot) the plane turns ITSELF on and stays on until the circuit is reset by disconnecting / interrupting the battery. The draw is tiny and the circuit and switch itself 1xx .25 or double the size of a typical 20 amp RC switch. I have tested the product in the lab and i know a shop that could likely get the size down to half its current size or close to the size of a standard switch This would of course cost some money out of pocket but I am not sure if the target market is too limited to bother creating this solution for. For the most part, the elite pilots I watch either don't even use a switch or are very disciplined in their launch methodology. The target market is more appropriately general pilots who may be approaching the more senior years as well as new pilots. What do you think people? At your local club have you seen anyone toss an un-powered glider to its death? Would a product like this be of value as a replacement for the standard on off switch for your more senior members or new eager soaring enthusiasts? David Webb RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re: Airfoil flight comparison( HN-216)?
David, Launching without turning the transmitter on is a symptom of a greater problem. You must build a routine that you consistently follow each and every time you launch, otherwise you will make this and a bunch of other mistakes. Most of the problems occur if you let yourself be rushed, either by external circumstances, or by a desire to join the gaggle in the monster thermal just off the launch. There are so many ways launches can go wrong that your proposed device may save you from one problem, but the others will be sure to bite you instead. As a reformed sinner myself I speak from bitter experience. Anker David Webb wrote: Gentlemen, I would like your feedback on something I created last season in a bit of a whim. I have been competing at various TD tasks in the Northwest over the last 3 years. Over this time I have witnessed far too many launches where the pilot after the fact admitted that he/she did not turn on the aircraft. Needless to say most of the aircraft were lost or seriously damaged. So in search of a solution I went to a local electronics shop and asked a young guy if he could give me a hand designing a safety component that might help avoid this scenario. Basically we designed a switch with a small tilt sensor and some latching circuitry. The result is this: If you remember to turn on the plane the switch works as expected. The plane powers on and off as it would normally. If you turn OFF the plane and tilt the aircraft in the desired launch angle ( this is set by the pilot) the plane turns ITSELF on and stays on until the circuit is reset by disconnecting / interrupting the battery. The draw is tiny and the circuit and switch itself 1xx .25 or double the size of a typical 20 amp RC switch. I have tested the product in the lab and i know a shop that could likely get the size down to half its current size or close to the size of a standard switch This would of course cost some money out of pocket but I am not sure if the target market is too limited to bother creating this solution for. For the most part, the elite pilots I watch either don't even use a switch or are very disciplined in their launch methodology. The target market is more appropriately general pilots who may be approaching the more senior years as well as new pilots. What do you think people? At your local club have you seen anyone toss an un-powered glider to its death? Would a product like this be of value as a replacement for the standard on off switch for your more senior members or new eager soaring enthusiasts? David Webb RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re: Airfoil flight comparison( HN-216)?
I'll take 2 -- Original message -- From: David Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gentlemen, I would like your feedback on something I created last season in a bit of a whim. I have been competing at various TD tasks in the Northwest over the last 3 years. Over this time I have witnessed far too many launches where the pilot after the fact admitted that he/she did not turn on the aircraft. Needless to say most of the aircraft were lost or seriously damaged. So in search of a solution I went to a local electronics shop and asked a young guy if he could give me a hand designing a safety component that might help avoid this scenario. Basically we designed a switch with a small tilt sensor and some latching circuitry. The result is this: If you remember to turn on the plane the switch works as expected. The plane powers on and off as it would normally. If you turn OFF the plane and tilt the aircraft in the desired launch angle ( this is set by the pilot) the plane turns ITSELF on and stays on until the circuit is reset by disconnecting / interrupting the battery. The draw is tiny and the circuit and switch itself 1xx .25 or double the size of a typical 20 amp RC switch. I have tested the product in the lab and i know a shop that could likely get the size down to half its current size or close to the size of a standard switch This would of course cost some money out of pocket but I am not sure if the target market is too limited to bother creating this solution for. For the most part, the elite pilots I watch either don't even use a switch or are very disciplined in their launch methodology. The target market is more appropriately general pilots who may be approaching the more senior years as well as new pilots. What do you think people? At your local club have you seen anyone toss an un-powered glider to its death? Would a product like this be of value as a replacement for the standard on off switch for your more senior members or new eager soaring enthusiasts? David Webb RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re: Airfoil flight comparison( HN-216)?
My best flights are when I forget to turn on :- David Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gentlemen, I would like your feedback on something I created last season in a bit of a whim. I have been competing at various TD tasks in the Northwest over the last 3 years. Over this time I have witnessed far too many launches where the pilot after the fact admitted that he/she did not turn on the aircraft. Needless to say most of the aircraft were lost or seriously damaged. So in search of a solution I went to a local electronics shop and asked a young guy if he could give me a hand designing a safety component that might help avoid this scenario. Basically we designed a switch with a small tilt sensor and some latching circuitry. The result is this: If you remember to turn on the plane the switch works as expected. The plane powers on and off as it would normally. If you turn OFF the plane and tilt the aircraft in the desired launch angle ( this is set by the pilot) the plane turns ITSELF on and stays on until the circuit is reset by disconnecting / interrupting the battery. The draw is tiny and the circuit and switch itself 1xx .25 or double the size of a typical 20 amp RC switch. I have tested the product in the lab and i know a shop that could likely get the size down to half its current size or close to the size of a standard switch This would of course cost some money out of pocket but I am not sure if the target market is too limited to bother creating this solution for. For the most part, the elite pilots I watch either don't even use a switch or are very disciplined in their launch methodology. The target market is more appropriately general pilots who may be approaching the more senior years as well as new pilots. What do you think people? At your local club have you seen anyone toss an un-powered glider to its death? Would a product like this be of value as a replacement for the standard on off switch for your more senior members or new eager soaring enthusiasts? David Webb RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re: Airfoil flight comparison( HN-216)?
For over 25 years, I used a system that prevented launching unless both the transmitter and receiver were own. Basically, it was a capture tow hook that had to be opened by radio to hook the towline to the tow hook and then latched by radio. It was an EK remote release tow hook with a pin at the back that prevented the tow ring from coming off. The EK tow hook was activated by a rigid pushrod. It worked until I ran out of EK tow hooks and began flying models too large for the light weight EK tow hook. In that time, I used Rocket City Proto tow hooks that could not easily be modified to prevent latching with the radio off for Sailaires and larger sailplanes. When using the Protow, I did launch a Sailaire one time with the radio off. I was lucky and retrieved it with no damage after a 45 minute flight. A standard tow hook could be made into a capture tow hook by installing a retractable pin at the back of the tow hook to prevent the tow ring from being attached without the pin being retracted by radio. The pin would also prevent pop offs if left latched until just before starting the zoom. I haven't yet tried this because I am too lazy. Instead I ALWAYS wiggle the controls and see the controls move just before hitting the peddle no matter how many times I have done it after turning the radios on. I did launch with the radio off three times after I quit using capture tow hooks. Chuck Anderson At 08:27 AM 2/1/2008, you wrote: Gentlemen, I would like your feedback on something I created last season in a bit of a whim. I have been competing at various TD tasks in the Northwest over the last 3 years. Over this time I have witnessed far too many launches where the pilot after the fact admitted that he/she did not turn on the aircraft. Needless to say most of the aircraft were lost or seriously damaged. So in search of a solution I went to a local electronics shop and asked a young guy if he could give me a hand designing a safety component that might help avoid this scenario. Basically we designed a switch with a small tilt sensor and some latching circuitry. The result is this: If you remember to turn on the plane the switch works as expected. The plane powers on and off as it would normally. If you turn OFF the plane and tilt the aircraft in the desired launch angle ( this is set by the pilot) the plane turns ITSELF on and stays on until the circuit is reset by disconnecting / interrupting the battery. The draw is tiny and the circuit and switch itself 1xx .25 or double the size of a typical 20 amp RC switch. I have tested the product in the lab and i know a shop that could likely get the size down to half its current size or close to the size of a standard switch This would of course cost some money out of pocket but I am not sure if the target market is too limited to bother creating this solution for. For the most part, the elite pilots I watch either don't even use a switch or are very disciplined in their launch methodology. The target market is more appropriately general pilots who may be approaching the more senior years as well as new pilots. What do you think people? At your local club have you seen anyone toss an un-powered glider to its death? Would a product like this be of value as a replacement for the standard on off switch for your more senior members or new eager soaring enthusiasts? David Webb RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Re: Airfoil flight comparison( HN-216)?
Well let's see. I'm at a contest and another pilot on my frequency is flying. His setup is (of course) far different than mine. I pick up my plane to do something or other and instant stripped servos? Maybe not. M From: Craig Allen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 5:49 AM To: David Webb; soaring@airage.com Subject: Re: [RCSE] Re: Airfoil flight comparison( HN-216)? My best flights are when I forget to turn on :- David Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gentlemen, I would like your feedback on something I created last season in a bit of a whim. I have been competing at various TD tasks in the Northwest over the last 3 years. Over this time I have witnessed far too many launches where the pilot after the fact admitted that he/she did not turn on the aircraft. Needless to say most of the aircraft were lost or seriously damaged. So in search of a solution I went to a local electronics shop and asked a young guy if he could give me a hand designing a safety component that might help avoid this scenario. Basically we designed a switch with a small tilt sensor and some latching circuitry. The result is this: If you remember to turn on the plane the switch works as expected. The plane powers on and off as it would normally. If you turn OFF the plane and tilt the aircraft in the desired launch angle ( this is set by the pilot) the plane turns ITSELF on and stays on until the circuit is reset by disconnecting / interrupting the battery. The draw is tiny and the circuit and switch itself 1xx .25 or double the size of a typical 20 amp RC switch. I have tested the product in the lab and i know a shop that could likely get the size down to half its current size or close to the size of a standard switch This would of course cost some money out of pocket but I am not sure if the target market is too limited to bother creating this solution for. For the most part, the elite pilots I watch either don't even use a switch or are very disciplined in their launch methodology. The target market is more appropriately general pilots who may be approaching the more senior years as well as new pilots. What do you think people? At your local club have you seen anyone toss an un-powered glider to its death? Would a product like this be of value as a replacement for the standard on off switch for your more senior members or new eager soaring enthusiasts? David Webb RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Re: Airfoil flight comparison( HN-216)?
Are these the same guys that had an issue with what end of the chute to use last week and needed the colored rings? Tom -Original Message- From: Anker Berg-Sonne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 7:32 AM To: David Webb Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Soaring@airage.com Subject: Re: [RCSE] Re: Airfoil flight comparison( HN-216)? David, Launching without turning the transmitter on is a symptom of a greater problem. You must build a routine that you consistently follow each and every time you launch, otherwise you will make this and a bunch of other mistakes. Most of the problems occur if you let yourself be rushed, either by external circumstances, or by a desire to join the gaggle in the monster thermal just off the launch. There are so many ways launches can go wrong that your proposed device may save you from one problem, but the others will be sure to bite you instead. As a reformed sinner myself I speak from bitter experience. Anker David Webb wrote: Gentlemen, I would like your feedback on something I created last season in a bit of a whim. I have been competing at various TD tasks in the Northwest over the last 3 years. Over this time I have witnessed far too many launches where the pilot after the fact admitted that he/she did not turn on the aircraft. Needless to say most of the aircraft were lost or seriously damaged. So in search of a solution I went to a local electronics shop and asked a young guy if he could give me a hand designing a safety component that might help avoid this scenario. Basically we designed a switch with a small tilt sensor and some latching circuitry. The result is this: If you remember to turn on the plane the switch works as expected. The plane powers on and off as it would normally. If you turn OFF the plane and tilt the aircraft in the desired launch angle ( this is set by the pilot) the plane turns ITSELF on and stays on until the circuit is reset by disconnecting / interrupting the battery. The draw is tiny and the circuit and switch itself 1xx .25 or double the size of a typical 20 amp RC switch. I have tested the product in the lab and i know a shop that could likely get the size down to half its current size or close to the size of a standard switch This would of course cost some money out of pocket but I am not sure if the target market is too limited to bother creating this solution for. For the most part, the elite pilots I watch either don't even use a switch or are very disciplined in their launch methodology. The target market is more appropriately general pilots who may be approaching the more senior years as well as new pilots. What do you think people? At your local club have you seen anyone toss an un-powered glider to its death? Would a product like this be of value as a replacement for the standard on off switch for your more senior members or new eager soaring enthusiasts? David Webb RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re: Airfoil flight comparison( HN-216)?
On Fri, Feb 01, 2008 at 10:31:59AM -0500, Anker Berg-Sonne wrote: There are so many ways launches can go wrong that your proposed device may save you from one problem, but the others will be sure to bite you instead. Not only that, but if your plane is ever tilted at that angle as you carry it to or put it into your car, it may turn itself on when you don't expect it, leading to a dead (or worse -- _almost_ dead) battery when you're actually ready to fly. Or it may turn itself on and do damage as the servos glitch because the TX isn't on. Perhaps you could design around this, but then perhaps not all launches would trigger it, if you make it *too* picky? Just wiggle your sticks a little before you launch. (For bonus points, make sure the sticks do the right thing on the plane, every flight!) If it costs a pilot a Gentle Lady to learn this lesson, then they got off cheap! (If it costs them a Pike, well, ouch, but they'll probably remember!) Personally, I've never done it with a glider, but I did do it with a nitro R/C car once. Chasing a R/C car doing donuts at 30 mph in your front yard = fun! All that was lacking was the Benny Hill music! Fortunately, the curb finally intervened to stop the car (and rip out half the screws and bolts in the car in the process ...) If you do decide to make this device, I'd suggest at least adding an audible alarm that goes off when the plane is turned on by it, that runs until the plane is turned on in the proper way (or the battery dies, of course.) That way, people will know that they forgot (and that your device just saved their plane!) when it activates when needed, and they'll know that they need to go turn the plane off again if it activates accidently. -- Doug McLaren, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gone crazy - back later! RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re: Airfoil flight comparison( HN-216)?
Connect the switch to a miniaturized fence charger connected to two metal bits, right where you hold the plane to launch. You will probably not launch that way, and you will probably not forget to turn on the tx even when you're launching some other glider. As long as you remembered to be careful and not hold that spot, you could go ahead and load the thing in the car. Have it turn off after a while if another tilt switch cycle doesn't occur. Alternatively, you could just hook the switch to a tiny speaker playing emetic music. I'm not sure, though, that the one form of hurling is conducive to the other. On the other hand, the simple way is probably to use a jack switch like the dlg guys use and hook up something really obnoxious to the end of the red streamer. Like a softball on about two feet of string. Or maybe just something heavy enough to pull out the plug when you pick up the glider. Original message Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 14:12:36 -0600 From: Doug McLaren [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [RCSE] Re: Airfoil flight comparison( HN-216)? To: Anker Berg-Sonne [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: David Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED],[EMAIL PROTECTED],Soaring@airage.com On Fri, Feb 01, 2008 at 10:31:59AM -0500, Anker Berg-Sonne wrote: There are so many ways launches can go wrong that your proposed device may save you from one problem, but the others will be sure to bite you instead. Not only that, but if your plane is ever tilted at that angle as you carry it to or put it into your car, it may turn itself on when you don't expect it, leading to a dead (or worse -- _almost_ dead) battery when you're actually ready to fly. Or it may turn itself on and do damage as the servos glitch because the TX isn't on. Perhaps you could design around this, but then perhaps not all launches would trigger it, if you make it *too* picky? Just wiggle your sticks a little before you launch. (For bonus points, make sure the sticks do the right thing on the plane, every flight!) If it costs a pilot a Gentle Lady to learn this lesson, then they got off cheap! (If it costs them a Pike, well, ouch, but they'll probably remember!) Personally, I've never done it with a glider, but I did do it with a nitro R/C car once. Chasing a R/C car doing donuts at 30 mph in your front yard = fun! All that was lacking was the Benny Hill music! Fortunately, the curb finally intervened to stop the car (and rip out half the screws and bolts in the car in the process ...) If you do decide to make this device, I'd suggest at least adding an audible alarm that goes off when the plane is turned on by it, that runs until the plane is turned on in the proper way (or the battery dies, of course.) That way, people will know that they forgot (and that your device just saved their plane!) when it activates when needed, and they'll know that they need to go turn the plane off again if it activates accidently. -- Doug McLaren, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gone crazy - back later! RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
