Re: Bifrost ICE ? Verdict ?

[Jonathan Moore]

I think we're increasingly in a multi DCC environment even for independence
artists and this is getting easier to manage with USD. ADSK announced over
Siggraph that they're going to be packaging Animal Logic's ace USD tech as
a plugin for all Maya customers. This is especially great for Maya/Houdini
pipelines as Animal Logic created their USD tech in part to answer the
challenge of managing their pipeline across Maya and Houdini. Coupled with
Solaris in Houdini, that dream of a DCC neutral pipeline is coming ever
closer.

Obviously cost is an issue for independents and smaller shops but crazy as
it sounds I can see some smaller outfits leaning of Houdini Core for
layout/lighting etc (as long as Solaris and Karma live up to their billing)
and Maya and/or Max for FX as well as general rigging/animation tasks as
that route is far cheaper than Houdini FX and for all of Houdini's
generalist advancements in recent years it's still a PITA for general
rigging and animation (don't shoot the messenger, that's simply the
feedback I continue to get).

Forgetting the relative merits of DCC's and their individual capabilities,
there's surprisingly a wealth of capable options out there right now (and
for the foreseeable future). Who would have predicted that when ADSK
announced Soft's EOL back in 2014!

On Tue, 13 Aug 2019 at 14:16, Chris Marshall 
wrote:

> I'd need the particles so we're looking at £4.5k for a seat. I have three
> maya here gathering dust.
>
>
>
>
> 
>  Virus-free.
> https://u9432639.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/click?upn=lIXdN6W56FnEjHCwrBXqOq0HQNpV0huvAGw1zu6Xp8eVQuk2cNZiNFjx2k-2FfTNcheFfpiVb5gBjGpm0Nj5Q4I4lGDNsD1bmsqLFnIATQKaiJicdT-2F0DKMufVrj-2B9B6yxXzGnjJE2PR-2BMNkZClliL2q7KcMWN7NOxnF91sSsU1z9zKDbJJefKnNqK27T35ndC2k7-2Bh7HVSSW3RLy8kxv0H17GVjR-2B1tMkwgK7bu75qnhxzne7OLkUKDbrCIj54YMk-2Fh8fuH52uERLSm3u9W3-2BXIB3rNfQeKXkv3E4ArMgjLLEmkC425SwingU86MVRcahlS4kkTK7mRDjTqpor-2FXHksGW8bur4309DwYojFo1Wcw-3D_a6oQc7tnfcb0GKvoO27fPkrQ0ATQyF1SDBXJOg7-2FbuSPiCFqfX3urTxOMx-2FUqR2WxI8XfVPcFTuUJh44mZ6cQ8Y88PdXedTdMy7tJGSzpdLSa5VzB5d3DQR7A9L8VGROZcDPh1wQYIQxx5ZJhsnr1HfWG8185df9PR9UQ-2BcH7PGVG2s8ZfdNXpTDfPHFWS7d5J7XW-2B4DaYFfPtmc6kTnTszS5JNxPBljI-2F9SS5LlL6w-3D
>  
> 

Re: Bifrost ICE ? Verdict ?

[Chris Marshall]

I'd need the particles so we're looking at £4.5k for a seat. I have three
maya here gathering dust.




Virus-free.
https://u9432639.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/click?upn=lIXdN6W56FnEjHCwrBXqOq0HQNpV0huvAGw1zu6Xp8eVQuk2cNZiNFjx2k-2FfTNcheFfpiVb5gBjGpm0Nj5Q4I4lGDNsD1bmsqLFnIATQKaiJicdT-2F0DKMufVrj-2B9B6yxXzGnjJE2PR-2BMNkZClliL2q7KcMWN7NOxnF91sSsU1z9zKDbJJefKnNqK27T35ndC2k7-2Bh7HVSSW3RLy8kxv0HyOggX4ybwWDIg-2FEk9-2BDRbJPhhavPMVQtcvOamtdueQrYZYVxhPEXV-2FkpOgqLc1yXYeHNcoV71HPiidweR2UV-2BUk2YQjWprwbxLU6z9M31GmRcaMkc5gLAK6ghbcYDI8ZKXT8VTJq-2F8f5yw3gVfVOuU-3D_a6oQc7tnfcb0GKvoO27fPkrQ0ATQyF1SDBXJOg7-2FbuRZTKpLkR8VywDuthpKfWE5qNwSzrnmwKje5-2BvQh6Ps1iIwOFbkY3utKu5rbG81sx5uxbmQ8Spt4YmS5P-2Fq-2BNEkbu04ALLSoFYTeN0Ql2fw7E94Gxq8BD85rHRrogdaMuh8HxM73iTAaAuI-2BbtwhRCeIkn-2FF7MRohIn4dpjdrsjq1SPEZQREiYZ0rII8tYSXYo-3D
 

<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Tue, 13 Aug 2019 at 14:00, Matt Morris  wrote:

> If you factor in unlimited mantra licenses it starts to even out. But it
> is a big jump from indie to having 2 or 3 full H lics. H Core isn't a bad
> price though.
>
>
>
> On Tue, 13 Aug 2019 at 13:17, Chris Marshall 
> wrote:
>
>> As I'm still on ICE this looks very interesting to me. One hurdle for
>> switching to Houdini, for us as a very small all round shop, is the cost.
>> Simple as that.
>>
>> On Tue, 13 Aug 2019 at 12:29, Jonathan Moore 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> At the moment it's mainly about the various simulation solvers and this
>>> is the stuff where the graphs are similar between Maya and Max (we were
>>> only part of the Maya beta so I'm basing my Max comments on conversations
>>> I've had with Max folk). But the plan is to integrate things like MASH in
>>> Maya and third party plugins like the Thinkbox and Cebas stuff in Max. This
>>> will make Bifrost Graph more rounded to each particular audience.
>>>
>>> If you take a gander on the Maya Bifrost forum you'll see some early
>>> rigging compounds being shared that are unique to Maya (to be expected,
>>> given the typical profile of Maya artists/studios). These give early
>>> indications as to the manner in which Bifrost Graph visual programming can
>>> be extended beyond the solvers. But it must be said, at the moment, beyond
>>> the typical mathematical expression type nodes, the breadth of Bifrost
>>> Graph's non solver capabilities is thin of the ground. The particles
>>> options are particularly disappointing at this stage. But I'd expect
>>> compounds to appear over time from the more technically minded artists in
>>> the community and these will hopefully make the particles feature-set more
>>> artist friendly.
>>>
>>> It's also worth keeping an eye on the Area downloads section as the
>>> Bifrost Graph team are sharing beta compounds that are still a work in
>>> progress.
>>>
>>> My biggest gripe with Bifrost Graph in Maya compared to ICE is that ICE
>>> always felt like a native playground that was a natural extension of the
>>> Softimage core. In Maya, there's a lot of juggling between the Maya DG and
>>> Bifrost Graph and it's this that's catching out the less technically minded
>>> Maya artists. It's less of a problem when sticking with the main solvers
>>> (which are really great) but when attempting to be 

Re: Bifrost ICE ? Verdict ?

[Matt Morris]

If you factor in unlimited mantra licenses it starts to even out. But it is
a big jump from indie to having 2 or 3 full H lics. H Core isn't a bad
price though.



On Tue, 13 Aug 2019 at 13:17, Chris Marshall 
wrote:

> As I'm still on ICE this looks very interesting to me. One hurdle for
> switching to Houdini, for us as a very small all round shop, is the cost.
> Simple as that.
>
> On Tue, 13 Aug 2019 at 12:29, Jonathan Moore 
> wrote:
>
>> At the moment it's mainly about the various simulation solvers and this
>> is the stuff where the graphs are similar between Maya and Max (we were
>> only part of the Maya beta so I'm basing my Max comments on conversations
>> I've had with Max folk). But the plan is to integrate things like MASH in
>> Maya and third party plugins like the Thinkbox and Cebas stuff in Max. This
>> will make Bifrost Graph more rounded to each particular audience.
>>
>> If you take a gander on the Maya Bifrost forum you'll see some early
>> rigging compounds being shared that are unique to Maya (to be expected,
>> given the typical profile of Maya artists/studios). These give early
>> indications as to the manner in which Bifrost Graph visual programming can
>> be extended beyond the solvers. But it must be said, at the moment, beyond
>> the typical mathematical expression type nodes, the breadth of Bifrost
>> Graph's non solver capabilities is thin of the ground. The particles
>> options are particularly disappointing at this stage. But I'd expect
>> compounds to appear over time from the more technically minded artists in
>> the community and these will hopefully make the particles feature-set more
>> artist friendly.
>>
>> It's also worth keeping an eye on the Area downloads section as the
>> Bifrost Graph team are sharing beta compounds that are still a work in
>> progress.
>>
>> My biggest gripe with Bifrost Graph in Maya compared to ICE is that ICE
>> always felt like a native playground that was a natural extension of the
>> Softimage core. In Maya, there's a lot of juggling between the Maya DG and
>> Bifrost Graph and it's this that's catching out the less technically minded
>> Maya artists. It's less of a problem when sticking with the main solvers
>> (which are really great) but when attempting to be more creative beyond
>> those solvers, you need a thorough understanding of the Maya DG plumbing.
>>
>> Having said all that it's easy to forget how much ICE evolved from it's
>> inception so I'm confident that Bifrost Graph will grow significantly over
>> time. And much like with ICE, there will be artists that utilise the
>> compounds that technical artists share in preference to getting their hands
>> dirty themselves.
>>
>> I'm really intrigued by the possibilities of Bifrost in Max as Max's
>> plumbing is far more accessible to the less technically minded. Much as the
>> Max Creation Graph is slow and clumsy in implementation  (it's still
>> MaxScript under the hood) the underlying API is ripe for exploitation. In
>> many ways Max is closer to Soft than Maya and over the last 4 or 5 release
>> cycles the Max development team have made Max a far more nimble environment
>> to work in. With the likes of TyFlow, ThinkingParticles and the Thinkbox
>> apps, there could be some really interesting integration possibilities. And
>> now that ADSK have seen the power of 'Indie' in terms of community building
>> (the masterstroke was SideFX's but ADSK had to get there in the end); it's
>> possible that Max could start building an audience in new sectors such as
>> motion design where independent artists outside of studios are still able
>> to punch above their weight.
>>
>> On Mon, 12 Aug 2019 at 17:26, phil harbath 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Does it do non-simulated pointcloud stuff like ICE, I looked it over
>>> however, it is different enough that is makes it hard for me to tell.  I
>>> did a lot
>>> of motion graphics stuff with ice along with arrays of instanced
>>> shapes/geo and if it did all that I would be willing to give it a real shot.
>>>
>>> thanks
>>> Phil
>>>
>>
>
> 

Re: Bifrost ICE ? Verdict ?

[Olivier Jeannel]

@Chris, join the force, switch to H !

Le mar. 13 août 2019 à 14:17, Chris Marshall  a
écrit :

> As I'm still on ICE this looks very interesting to me. One hurdle for
> switching to Houdini, for us as a very small all round shop, is the cost.
> Simple as that.
>
> On Tue, 13 Aug 2019 at 12:29, Jonathan Moore 
> wrote:
>
>> At the moment it's mainly about the various simulation solvers and this
>> is the stuff where the graphs are similar between Maya and Max (we were
>> only part of the Maya beta so I'm basing my Max comments on conversations
>> I've had with Max folk). But the plan is to integrate things like MASH in
>> Maya and third party plugins like the Thinkbox and Cebas stuff in Max. This
>> will make Bifrost Graph more rounded to each particular audience.
>>
>> If you take a gander on the Maya Bifrost forum you'll see some early
>> rigging compounds being shared that are unique to Maya (to be expected,
>> given the typical profile of Maya artists/studios). These give early
>> indications as to the manner in which Bifrost Graph visual programming can
>> be extended beyond the solvers. But it must be said, at the moment, beyond
>> the typical mathematical expression type nodes, the breadth of Bifrost
>> Graph's non solver capabilities is thin of the ground. The particles
>> options are particularly disappointing at this stage. But I'd expect
>> compounds to appear over time from the more technically minded artists in
>> the community and these will hopefully make the particles feature-set more
>> artist friendly.
>>
>> It's also worth keeping an eye on the Area downloads section as the
>> Bifrost Graph team are sharing beta compounds that are still a work in
>> progress.
>>
>> My biggest gripe with Bifrost Graph in Maya compared to ICE is that ICE
>> always felt like a native playground that was a natural extension of the
>> Softimage core. In Maya, there's a lot of juggling between the Maya DG and
>> Bifrost Graph and it's this that's catching out the less technically minded
>> Maya artists. It's less of a problem when sticking with the main solvers
>> (which are really great) but when attempting to be more creative beyond
>> those solvers, you need a thorough understanding of the Maya DG plumbing.
>>
>> Having said all that it's easy to forget how much ICE evolved from it's
>> inception so I'm confident that Bifrost Graph will grow significantly over
>> time. And much like with ICE, there will be artists that utilise the
>> compounds that technical artists share in preference to getting their hands
>> dirty themselves.
>>
>> I'm really intrigued by the possibilities of Bifrost in Max as Max's
>> plumbing is far more accessible to the less technically minded. Much as the
>> Max Creation Graph is slow and clumsy in implementation  (it's still
>> MaxScript under the hood) the underlying API is ripe for exploitation. In
>> many ways Max is closer to Soft than Maya and over the last 4 or 5 release
>> cycles the Max development team have made Max a far more nimble environment
>> to work in. With the likes of TyFlow, ThinkingParticles and the Thinkbox
>> apps, there could be some really interesting integration possibilities. And
>> now that ADSK have seen the power of 'Indie' in terms of community building
>> (the masterstroke was SideFX's but ADSK had to get there in the end); it's
>> possible that Max could start building an audience in new sectors such as
>> motion design where independent artists outside of studios are still able
>> to punch above their weight.
>>
>> On Mon, 12 Aug 2019 at 17:26, phil harbath 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Does it do non-simulated pointcloud stuff like ICE, I looked it over
>>> however, it is different enough that is makes it hard for me to tell.  I
>>> did a lot
>>> of motion graphics stuff with ice along with arrays of instanced
>>> shapes/geo and if it did all that I would be willing to give it a real shot.
>>>
>>> thanks
>>> Phil
>>>
>>
>
> 

Re: Bifrost ICE ? Verdict ?

[Chris Marshall]

As I'm still on ICE this looks very interesting to me. One hurdle for
switching to Houdini, for us as a very small all round shop, is the cost.
Simple as that.

On Tue, 13 Aug 2019 at 12:29, Jonathan Moore 
wrote:

> At the moment it's mainly about the various simulation solvers and this is
> the stuff where the graphs are similar between Maya and Max (we were only
> part of the Maya beta so I'm basing my Max comments on conversations I've
> had with Max folk). But the plan is to integrate things like MASH in Maya
> and third party plugins like the Thinkbox and Cebas stuff in Max. This will
> make Bifrost Graph more rounded to each particular audience.
>
> If you take a gander on the Maya Bifrost forum you'll see some early
> rigging compounds being shared that are unique to Maya (to be expected,
> given the typical profile of Maya artists/studios). These give early
> indications as to the manner in which Bifrost Graph visual programming can
> be extended beyond the solvers. But it must be said, at the moment, beyond
> the typical mathematical expression type nodes, the breadth of Bifrost
> Graph's non solver capabilities is thin of the ground. The particles
> options are particularly disappointing at this stage. But I'd expect
> compounds to appear over time from the more technically minded artists in
> the community and these will hopefully make the particles feature-set more
> artist friendly.
>
> It's also worth keeping an eye on the Area downloads section as the
> Bifrost Graph team are sharing beta compounds that are still a work in
> progress.
>
> My biggest gripe with Bifrost Graph in Maya compared to ICE is that ICE
> always felt like a native playground that was a natural extension of the
> Softimage core. In Maya, there's a lot of juggling between the Maya DG and
> Bifrost Graph and it's this that's catching out the less technically minded
> Maya artists. It's less of a problem when sticking with the main solvers
> (which are really great) but when attempting to be more creative beyond
> those solvers, you need a thorough understanding of the Maya DG plumbing.
>
> Having said all that it's easy to forget how much ICE evolved from it's
> inception so I'm confident that Bifrost Graph will grow significantly over
> time. And much like with ICE, there will be artists that utilise the
> compounds that technical artists share in preference to getting their hands
> dirty themselves.
>
> I'm really intrigued by the possibilities of Bifrost in Max as Max's
> plumbing is far more accessible to the less technically minded. Much as the
> Max Creation Graph is slow and clumsy in implementation  (it's still
> MaxScript under the hood) the underlying API is ripe for exploitation. In
> many ways Max is closer to Soft than Maya and over the last 4 or 5 release
> cycles the Max development team have made Max a far more nimble environment
> to work in. With the likes of TyFlow, ThinkingParticles and the Thinkbox
> apps, there could be some really interesting integration possibilities. And
> now that ADSK have seen the power of 'Indie' in terms of community building
> (the masterstroke was SideFX's but ADSK had to get there in the end); it's
> possible that Max could start building an audience in new sectors such as
> motion design where independent artists outside of studios are still able
> to punch above their weight.
>
> On Mon, 12 Aug 2019 at 17:26, phil harbath 
> wrote:
>
>> Does it do non-simulated pointcloud stuff like ICE, I looked it over
>> however, it is different enough that is makes it hard for me to tell.  I
>> did a lot
>> of motion graphics stuff with ice along with arrays of instanced
>> shapes/geo and if it did all that I would be willing to give it a real shot.
>>
>> thanks
>> Phil
>>
>

Virus-free.

Re: Bifrost ICE ? Verdict ?

[Jonathan Moore]

At the moment it's mainly about the various simulation solvers and this is
the stuff where the graphs are similar between Maya and Max (we were only
part of the Maya beta so I'm basing my Max comments on conversations I've
had with Max folk). But the plan is to integrate things like MASH in Maya
and third party plugins like the Thinkbox and Cebas stuff in Max. This will
make Bifrost Graph more rounded to each particular audience.

If you take a gander on the Maya Bifrost forum you'll see some early
rigging compounds being shared that are unique to Maya (to be expected,
given the typical profile of Maya artists/studios). These give early
indications as to the manner in which Bifrost Graph visual programming can
be extended beyond the solvers. But it must be said, at the moment, beyond
the typical mathematical expression type nodes, the breadth of Bifrost
Graph's non solver capabilities is thin of the ground. The particles
options are particularly disappointing at this stage. But I'd expect
compounds to appear over time from the more technically minded artists in
the community and these will hopefully make the particles feature-set more
artist friendly.

It's also worth keeping an eye on the Area downloads section as the Bifrost
Graph team are sharing beta compounds that are still a work in progress.

My biggest gripe with Bifrost Graph in Maya compared to ICE is that ICE
always felt like a native playground that was a natural extension of the
Softimage core. In Maya, there's a lot of juggling between the Maya DG and
Bifrost Graph and it's this that's catching out the less technically minded
Maya artists. It's less of a problem when sticking with the main solvers
(which are really great) but when attempting to be more creative beyond
those solvers, you need a thorough understanding of the Maya DG plumbing.

Having said all that it's easy to forget how much ICE evolved from it's
inception so I'm confident that Bifrost Graph will grow significantly over
time. And much like with ICE, there will be artists that utilise the
compounds that technical artists share in preference to getting their hands
dirty themselves.

I'm really intrigued by the possibilities of Bifrost in Max as Max's
plumbing is far more accessible to the less technically minded. Much as the
Max Creation Graph is slow and clumsy in implementation  (it's still
MaxScript under the hood) the underlying API is ripe for exploitation. In
many ways Max is closer to Soft than Maya and over the last 4 or 5 release
cycles the Max development team have made Max a far more nimble environment
to work in. With the likes of TyFlow, ThinkingParticles and the Thinkbox
apps, there could be some really interesting integration possibilities. And
now that ADSK have seen the power of 'Indie' in terms of community building
(the masterstroke was SideFX's but ADSK had to get there in the end); it's
possible that Max could start building an audience in new sectors such as
motion design where independent artists outside of studios are still able
to punch above their weight.

On Mon, 12 Aug 2019 at 17:26, phil harbath 
wrote:

> Does it do non-simulated pointcloud stuff like ICE, I looked it over
> however, it is different enough that is makes it hard for me to tell.  I
> did a lot
> of motion graphics stuff with ice along with arrays of instanced
> shapes/geo and if it did all that I would be willing to give it a real shot.
>
> thanks
> Phil
> --
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> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
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Re: Bifrost ICE ? Verdict ?

[phil harbath]

Does it do non-simulated pointcloud stuff like ICE, I looked it over however, 
it is different enough that is makes it hard for me to tell.  I did a lot 
of motion graphics stuff with ice along with arrays of instanced shapes/geo and 
if it did all that I would be willing to give it a real shot.
thanks
Phil--
Softimage Mailing List.
To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
"unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.