k -- WHAT?
Good morning -- Anyone have an approximate K value for a 2½ hose valve? Vince Sabolik, West Tech Fire Protection, Inc. 11351 Pearl Road / Strongsville, Ohio 44136 440 238-4800 Fax 440 238-4876 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120405/bddfbfe1/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
RE: k -- WHAT?
Are you looking for friction loss through a valve, or are you looking to flow a certain amount of water at a certain pressure? -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Vince Sabolik Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 11:45 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: k -- WHAT? Good morning -- Anyone have an approximate K value for a 2½ hose valve? Vince Sabolik, West Tech Fire Protection, Inc. 11351 Pearl Road / Strongsville, Ohio 44136 440 238-4800 Fax 440 238-4876 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120405/bddfbfe1/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
Re: k -- WHAT?
http://www.westerndynamics.com/Download/friclossfittings.pdf On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 8:46 AM, Seidl Jamie D. jdse...@vscfs.com wrote: Are you looking for friction loss through a valve, or are you looking to flow a certain amount of water at a certain pressure? -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Vince Sabolik Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 11:45 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: k -- WHAT? Good morning -- Anyone have an approximate K value for a 2½ hose valve? Vince Sabolik, West Tech Fire Protection, Inc. 11351 Pearl Road / Strongsville, Ohio 44136 440 238-4800 Fax 440 238-4876 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120405/bddfbfe1/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 rgreen...@bates.ctc.edu http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120405/48e6124f/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
RE: k -- WHAT?
Um, Ron? According to that chart a 2.5 angle valve will flow 9.9gpm at 100psi. I don't think that's quite in accordance with HW. If you are flowing 250 through the valve at 100psi, it has a K of 25.0, no? But they can flow more ... K at 350gpm/100psi would be 35 ... What are you trying to do? Steve -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 8:49 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: k -- WHAT? http://www.westerndynamics.com/Download/friclossfittings.pdf On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 8:46 AM, Seidl Jamie D. jdse...@vscfs.com wrote: Are you looking for friction loss through a valve, or are you looking to flow a certain amount of water at a certain pressure? -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Vince Sabolik Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 11:45 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: k -- WHAT? Good morning -- Anyone have an approximate K value for a 2½ hose valve? Vince Sabolik, West Tech Fire Protection, Inc. 11351 Pearl Road / Strongsville, Ohio 44136 440 238-4800 Fax 440 238-4876 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attac hments/20120405/bddfbfe1/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 rgreen...@bates.ctc.edu http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120405/48e6124f/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
RE: k -- WHAT?
Vince, How much water are you planning on flowing? 500 gpm flow @ 100 psi = K=50 500 gpm flow @ 65 psi = K=62 Regards, G. Tim Stone G. Tim Stone Consulting, LLC NICET Level III Engineering Technician Fire Protection Sprinkler Design and Consulting Services 117 Old Stage Rd. - Essex Jct., VT. 05452 CELL: (802) 373-0638 TEL: (802) 434-2968 Fax: (802) 434-4343 tston...@comcast.net -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum- boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Vince Sabolik Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 11:45 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: k -- WHAT? Good morning -- Anyone have an approximate K value for a 2½ hose valve? Vince Sabolik, West Tech Fire Protection, Inc. 11351 Pearl Road / Strongsville, Ohio 44136 440 238-4800 Fax 440 238-4876 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attac hments/20120405/bddfbfe1/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
RE: k -- WHAT?
I was looking at that too... and scratching my head. K=50 for 100 psi @ 500 seems to always work out in the field. -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 11:57 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: k -- WHAT? Um, Ron? According to that chart a 2.5 angle valve will flow 9.9gpm at 100psi. I don't think that's quite in accordance with HW. If you are flowing 250 through the valve at 100psi, it has a K of 25.0, no? But they can flow more ... K at 350gpm/100psi would be 35 ... What are you trying to do? Steve -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 8:49 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: k -- WHAT? http://www.westerndynamics.com/Download/friclossfittings.pdf On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 8:46 AM, Seidl Jamie D. jdse...@vscfs.com wrote: Are you looking for friction loss through a valve, or are you looking to flow a certain amount of water at a certain pressure? -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Vince Sabolik Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 11:45 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: k -- WHAT? Good morning -- Anyone have an approximate K value for a 2½ hose valve? Vince Sabolik, West Tech Fire Protection, Inc. 11351 Pearl Road / Strongsville, Ohio 44136 440 238-4800 Fax 440 238-4876 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attac hments/20120405/bddfbfe1/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 rgreen...@bates.ctc.edu http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120405/48e6124f/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
RE: k -- WHAT?
Manufacturer's data sheets!!! Steve -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Seidl Jamie D. Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 9:01 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: k -- WHAT? I was looking at that too... and scratching my head. K=50 for 100 psi @ 500 seems to always work out in the field. -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 11:57 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: k -- WHAT? Um, Ron? According to that chart a 2.5 angle valve will flow 9.9gpm at 100psi. I don't think that's quite in accordance with HW. If you are flowing 250 through the valve at 100psi, it has a K of 25.0, no? But they can flow more ... K at 350gpm/100psi would be 35 ... What are you trying to do? Steve -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 8:49 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: k -- WHAT? http://www.westerndynamics.com/Download/friclossfittings.pdf On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 8:46 AM, Seidl Jamie D. jdse...@vscfs.com wrote: Are you looking for friction loss through a valve, or are you looking to flow a certain amount of water at a certain pressure? -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Vince Sabolik Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 11:45 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: k -- WHAT? Good morning -- Anyone have an approximate K value for a 2½ hose valve? Vince Sabolik, West Tech Fire Protection, Inc. 11351 Pearl Road / Strongsville, Ohio 44136 440 238-4800 Fax 440 238-4876 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attac hments/20120405/bddfbfe1/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 rgreen...@bates.ctc.edu http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120405/48e6124f/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
RE: k -- WHAT?
Forward flow testing for a BFP So I guess what I'm looking for is a performance K factor. At 11:56 AM 4/5/2012, you wrote: Um, Ron? According to that chart a 2.5 angle valve will flow 9.9gpm at 100psi. I don't think that's quite in accordance with HW. If you are flowing 250 through the valve at 100psi, it has a K of 25.0, no? But they can flow more ... K at 350gpm/100psi would be 35 ... What are you trying to do? Steve -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 8:49 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: k -- WHAT? http://www.westerndynamics.com/Download/friclossfittings.pdf On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 8:46 AM, Seidl Jamie D. jdse...@vscfs.com wrote: Are you looking for friction loss through a valve, or are you looking to flow a certain amount of water at a certain pressure? -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Vince Sabolik Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 11:45 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: k -- WHAT? Good morning -- Anyone have an approximate K value for a 2½ hose valve? Vince Sabolik, West Tech Fire Protection, Inc. 11351 Pearl Road / Strongsville, Ohio 44136 440 238-4800 Fax 440 238-4876 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attac hments/20120405/bddfbfe1/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 rgreen...@bates.ctc.edu http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120405/48e6124f/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum Vince Sabolik, West Tech Fire Protection, Inc. 11351 Pearl Road / Strongsville, Ohio 44136 440 238-4800 Fax 440 238-4876 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120405/f8fc3614/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
RE: k -- WHAT?
But what you are missing is the losses through the valve. 8-15 psi as I recall depending on type and manufacture. They will give you the eq.ft. on the data sheet. Chris Cahill, PE* Senior Fire Protection Engineer, Aviation Facilities Group Burns McDonnell 8201 Norman Center Drive Bloomington, MN 55437 Phone: 952.656.3652 Fax: 952.229.2923 ccah...@burnsmcd.com www.burnsmcd.com Proud to be one of FORTUNE's 100 Best Companies to Work For *Registered in: MN -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of G. Tim Stone Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 10:59 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: k -- WHAT? Vince, How much water are you planning on flowing? 500 gpm flow @ 100 psi = K=50 500 gpm flow @ 65 psi = K=62 Regards, G. Tim Stone G. Tim Stone Consulting, LLC NICET Level III Engineering Technician Fire Protection Sprinkler Design and Consulting Services 117 Old Stage Rd. - Essex Jct., VT. 05452 CELL: (802) 373-0638 TEL: (802) 434-2968 Fax: (802) 434-4343 tston...@comcast.net -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum- boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Vince Sabolik Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 11:45 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: k -- WHAT? Good morning -- Anyone have an approximate K value for a 2½ hose valve? Vince Sabolik, West Tech Fire Protection, Inc. 11351 Pearl Road / Strongsville, Ohio 44136 440 238-4800 Fax 440 238-4876 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/atta c hments/20120405/bddfbfe1/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
[no subject]
performance K = like what you get for a sprinkler head Vince Sabolik, West Tech Fire Protection, Inc. 11351 Pearl Road / Strongsville, Ohio 44136 440 238-4800 Fax 440 238-4876 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120405/8e9da480/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
RE:
I have extrapolated a 2.5 outlet to 166 using several dozen different size orifices versus k-factor using maximum flow per cutsheets of several different types and sizes of spray nozzles. Ryan Hinson Burns McDonnell Direct: 952-656-3662 -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Vince Sabolik Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 11:07 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: performance K = like what you get for a sprinkler head Vince Sabolik, West Tech Fire Protection, Inc. 11351 Pearl Road / Strongsville, Ohio 44136 440 238-4800 Fax 440 238-4876 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120405/8e9da480/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
RE: k -- WHAT?
If you are doing a forward flow test of a backflow, why not hook the outlet up to a Hose Monster? Am I missing something? As far as the K factor, go with what Steve said. At 12:02 PM 4/5/2012, you wrote: Forward flow testing for a BFP So I guess what I'm looking for is a performance K factor. At 11:56 AM 4/5/2012, you wrote: Um, Ron? According to that chart a 2.5 angle valve will flow 9.9gpm at 100psi. I don't think that's quite in accordance with HW. If you are flowing 250 through the valve at 100psi, it has a K of 25.0, no? But they can flow more ... K at 350gpm/100psi would be 35 ... What are you trying to do? Steve -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 8:49 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: k -- WHAT? http://www.westerndynamics.com/Download/friclossfittings.pdf On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 8:46 AM, Seidl Jamie D. jdse...@vscfs.com wrote: Are you looking for friction loss through a valve, or are you looking to flow a certain amount of water at a certain pressure? -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Vince Sabolik Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 11:45 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: k -- WHAT? Good morning -- Anyone have an approximate K value for a 2½ hose valve? Vince Sabolik, West Tech Fire Protection, Inc. 11351 Pearl Road / Strongsville, Ohio 44136 440 238-4800 Fax 440 238-4876 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attac hments/20120405/bddfbfe1/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 rgreen...@bates.ctc.edu http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120405/48e6124f/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum Vince Sabolik, West Tech Fire Protection, Inc. 11351 Pearl Road / Strongsville, Ohio 44136 440 238-4800 Fax 440 238-4876 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120405/f8fc3614/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum Todd G. Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860.535.2080 www.fpdc.com ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
RE: k -- WHAT?
K factor as applied in our industry is a coefficient for a smooth bore orifice. I am not aware of how this could be applied to a hose valve since it is not a smooth bore orifice, but I can offer some input from fire department hydraulics: GPM (Q) = (29.7*diameter squared)*square root of pressure. This is the formula applied by fire departments in their field applications. This does not apply to fog or adjustable nozzles. 29.7 is a constant, diameter is the diameter of the smooth bore orifice - combined these numbers result in a 'k' value for the orifice. Manufacturers of sprinklers have done this calculation for us and conveniently provide the value for us to plug into our familiar K,Q,P formula to determine GPM and pressure. I believe the 29.7 constant is a rounded number; but it should be close enough to give a fairly accurate result. Pat Thompson Special Hazard Sales NICET #101475 SimplexGrinnell A Tyco International Company 907-743-9128 direct 907-561-4650 fax pthomp...@simplexgrinnell.com -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Vince Sabolik Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 7:45 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: k -- WHAT? Good morning -- Anyone have an approximate K value for a 2½ hose valve? Vince Sabolik, West Tech Fire Protection, Inc. 11351 Pearl Road / Strongsville, Ohio 44136 440 238-4800 Fax 440 238-4876 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120405/bddfbfe1/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
RE: k -- WHAT?
NFPA 14 Table 8.3.1.3 indicates a 2½ angle valve to be 31 equiv ft of pipe. You can use HW to figure out friction losses from there. Duane Johnson, PE Program Manager Division of the Fire Marshal (Support Contractor) Office of Research Services National Institutes of Health 301-496-0487 Protecting Science - One Sprinkler at a Time -Original Message- From: Vince Sabolik [mailto:vi...@wtfp.net] Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 12:02 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: k -- WHAT? Forward flow testing for a BFP So I guess what I'm looking for is a performance K factor. At 11:56 AM 4/5/2012, you wrote: Um, Ron? According to that chart a 2.5 angle valve will flow 9.9gpm at 100psi. I don't think that's quite in accordance with HW. If you are flowing 250 through the valve at 100psi, it has a K of 25.0, no? But they can flow more ... K at 350gpm/100psi would be 35 ... What are you trying to do? Steve -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 8:49 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: k -- WHAT? http://www.westerndynamics.com/Download/friclossfittings.pdf On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 8:46 AM, Seidl Jamie D. jdse...@vscfs.com wrote: Are you looking for friction loss through a valve, or are you looking to flow a certain amount of water at a certain pressure? -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Vince Sabolik Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 11:45 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: k -- WHAT? Good morning -- Anyone have an approximate K value for a 2½ hose valve? Vince Sabolik, West Tech Fire Protection, Inc. 11351 Pearl Road / Strongsville, Ohio 44136 440 238-4800 Fax 440 238-4876 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attac hments/20120405/bddfbfe1/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 rgreen...@bates.ctc.edu http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120405/48e6124f/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum Vince Sabolik, West Tech Fire Protection, Inc. 11351 Pearl Road / Strongsville, Ohio 44136 440 238-4800 Fax 440 238-4876 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120405/f8fc3614/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
RE: k -- WHAT?
But is that with the valve all the way open? 2/3? 1/2-way? K is often referred to as a constant in algebraic and calculaic formulae; valves aren't constant. It's kinda' what defines them as valves. Steve L. -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Thompson, Pat Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 9:47 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: k -- WHAT? K factor as applied in our industry is a coefficient for a smooth bore orifice. I am not aware of how this could be applied to a hose valve since it is not a smooth bore orifice, but I can offer some input from fire department hydraulics: GPM (Q) = (29.7*diameter squared)*square root of pressure. This is the formula applied by fire departments in their field applications. This does not apply to fog or adjustable nozzles. 29.7 is a constant, diameter is the diameter of the smooth bore orifice - combined these numbers result in a 'k' value for the orifice. Manufacturers of sprinklers have done this calculation for us and conveniently provide the value for us to plug into our familiar K,Q,P formula to determine GPM and pressure. I believe the 29.7 constant is a rounded number; but it should be close enough to give a fairly accurate result. Pat Thompson Special Hazard Sales NICET #101475 SimplexGrinnell A Tyco International Company 907-743-9128 direct 907-561-4650 fax pthomp...@simplexgrinnell.com -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Vince Sabolik Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 7:45 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: k -- WHAT? Good morning -- Anyone have an approximate K value for a 2½ hose valve? Vince Sabolik, West Tech Fire Protection, Inc. 11351 Pearl Road / Strongsville, Ohio 44136 440 238-4800 Fax 440 238-4876 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120405/bddfbfe1/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
RE: k -- WHAT?
Assuming you are wanting to take your flow test results and calc it back to the BFP for true results at the BFP. Duane Johnson, PE Program Manager Division of the Fire Marshal (Support Contractor) Office of Research Services National Institutes of Health 301-496-0487 Protecting Science - One Sprinkler at a Time -Original Message- From: Johnson, Duane (NIH/OD/ORS) [C] Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 12:51 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: k -- WHAT? NFPA 14 Table 8.3.1.3 indicates a 2½ angle valve to be 31 equiv ft of pipe. You can use HW to figure out friction losses from there. Duane Johnson, PE Program Manager Division of the Fire Marshal (Support Contractor) Office of Research Services National Institutes of Health 301-496-0487 Protecting Science - One Sprinkler at a Time -Original Message- From: Vince Sabolik [mailto:vi...@wtfp.net] Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 12:02 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: k -- WHAT? Forward flow testing for a BFP So I guess what I'm looking for is a performance K factor. At 11:56 AM 4/5/2012, you wrote: Um, Ron? According to that chart a 2.5 angle valve will flow 9.9gpm at 100psi. I don't think that's quite in accordance with HW. If you are flowing 250 through the valve at 100psi, it has a K of 25.0, no? But they can flow more ... K at 350gpm/100psi would be 35 ... What are you trying to do? Steve -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 8:49 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: k -- WHAT? http://www.westerndynamics.com/Download/friclossfittings.pdf On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 8:46 AM, Seidl Jamie D. jdse...@vscfs.com wrote: Are you looking for friction loss through a valve, or are you looking to flow a certain amount of water at a certain pressure? -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Vince Sabolik Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 11:45 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: k -- WHAT? Good morning -- Anyone have an approximate K value for a 2½ hose valve? Vince Sabolik, West Tech Fire Protection, Inc. 11351 Pearl Road / Strongsville, Ohio 44136 440 238-4800 Fax 440 238-4876 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attac hments/20120405/bddfbfe1/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 rgreen...@bates.ctc.edu http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120405/48e6124f/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum Vince Sabolik, West Tech Fire Protection, Inc. 11351 Pearl Road / Strongsville, Ohio 44136 440 238-4800 Fax 440 238-4876 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120405/f8fc3614/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo
RE: k -- WHAT?
At 12:22 PM 4/5/2012, you wrote: If you are doing a forward flow test of a backflow, why not hook the outlet up to a Hose Monster? Am I missing something? Yup, PERMANACE. The thing has to be installed permanently so it has to be designed. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120405/965918ec/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
UFC3-600-01
I have an engineer rejecting plans without awater quality analysis per the UFC. The only thing I found is this paragraph: Analysis of automatic sprinkler systems and suppression systems and protected areas, including hydraulic analysis of required water demand. Could anyone fill me in to what they are looking for? Jay Stough -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120405/9aca67ab/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
RE: UFC3-600-01
Susceptibility to calcification; Ph or corrosive chemical composition; bacterial or other bio-corrosive hazard. Steve L. -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Jay Stough Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 10:46 AM To: Sprinkler -Forum Subject: UFC3-600-01 I have an engineer rejecting plans without awater quality analysis per the UFC. The only thing I found is this paragraph: Analysis of automatic sprinkler systems and suppression systems and protected areas, including hydraulic analysis of required water demand. Could anyone fill me in to what they are looking for? Jay Stough -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120405/9aca67ab/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
RE: UFC3-600-01
Only required if you are using s10. It never says you have to use s40. And apparently don't have to test to use s7. That aside this is the section: 4-2.3.2 Piping. Installations must evaluate the water quality (pertaining to corrosion) to determine if Schedule 10 steel pipe can be used for sprinkler system piping greater than 50mm (2-inches). Water quality analysis must evaluate both microbiological and galvanic corrosion. Evidence of either corrosion potential or past history of sprinkler system failure due to corrosion would prohibit the use of Schedule 10 pipe. \1\ /1/ Chris Cahill, PE* Senior Fire Protection Engineer, Aviation Facilities Group Burns McDonnell 8201 Norman Center Drive Bloomington, MN 55437 Phone: 952.656.3652 Fax: 952.229.2923 ccah...@burnsmcd.com www.burnsmcd.com Proud to be one of FORTUNE's 100 Best Companies to Work For *Registered in: MN -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Jay Stough Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 12:46 PM To: Sprinkler -Forum Subject: UFC3-600-01 I have an engineer rejecting plans without awater quality analysis per the UFC. The only thing I found is this paragraph: Analysis of automatic sprinkler systems and suppression systems and protected areas, including hydraulic analysis of required water demand. Could anyone fill me in to what they are looking for? Jay Stough -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120405/9aca67ab/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
RE: UFC3-600-01
We had a similar comment come up on a USACE project and we were allowed to get a letter from the local fire marshal saying that there have been no historical problems with piping corrosion in their district. Ed AERO Automatic Sprinkler Company -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Cahill, Christopher Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 10:50 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: UFC3-600-01 Only required if you are using s10. It never says you have to use s40. And apparently don't have to test to use s7. That aside this is the section: 4-2.3.2 Piping. Installations must evaluate the water quality (pertaining to corrosion) to determine if Schedule 10 steel pipe can be used for sprinkler system piping greater than 50mm (2-inches). Water quality analysis must evaluate both microbiological and galvanic corrosion. Evidence of either corrosion potential or past history of sprinkler system failure due to corrosion would prohibit the use of Schedule 10 pipe. \1\ /1/ Chris Cahill, PE* Senior Fire Protection Engineer, Aviation Facilities Group Burns McDonnell 8201 Norman Center Drive Bloomington, MN 55437 Phone: 952.656.3652 Fax: 952.229.2923 ccah...@burnsmcd.com www.burnsmcd.com Proud to be one of FORTUNE's 100 Best Companies to Work For *Registered in: MN -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Jay Stough Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 12:46 PM To: Sprinkler -Forum Subject: UFC3-600-01 I have an engineer rejecting plans without awater quality analysis per the UFC. The only thing I found is this paragraph: Analysis of automatic sprinkler systems and suppression systems and protected areas, including hydraulic analysis of required water demand. Could anyone fill me in to what they are looking for? Jay Stough -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120405/9aca67ab/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
RE: UFC3-600-01
Yes,but they don't list a level of pass or fail. Cahill, Christopher ccah...@burnsmcd.com wrote: Only required if you are using s10. It never says you have to use s40. And apparently don't have to test to use s7. That aside this is the section: 4-2.3.2 Piping. Installations must evaluate the water quality (pertaining to corrosion) to determine if Schedule 10 steel pipe can be used for sprinkler system piping greater than 50mm (2-inches). Water quality analysis must evaluate both microbiological and galvanic corrosion. Evidence of either corrosion potential or past history of sprinkler system failure due to corrosion would prohibit the use of Schedule 10 pipe. \1\ /1/ Chris Cahill, PE* Senior Fire Protection Engineer, Aviation Facilities Group Burns McDonnell 8201 Norman Center Drive Bloomington, MN 55437 Phone: 952.656.3652 Fax: 952.229.2923 ccah...@burnsmcd.com www.burnsmcd.com Proud to be one of FORTUNE's 100 Best Companies to Work For *Registered in: MN -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Jay Stough Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 12:46 PM To: Sprinkler -Forum Subject: UFC3-600-01 I have an engineer rejecting plans without awater quality analysis per the UFC. The only thing I found is this paragraph: Analysis of automatic sprinkler systems and suppression systems and protected areas, including hydraulic analysis of required water demand. Could anyone fill me in to what they are looking for? Jay Stough -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120405/9aca67ab/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
RE: UFC3-600-01
Pass/fail true but they don't even say what test. Taste is what we spec, lol. Chris -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Richard Carr Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 12:59 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: UFC3-600-01 Yes,but they don't list a level of pass or fail. Cahill, Christopher ccah...@burnsmcd.com wrote: Only required if you are using s10. It never says you have to use s40. And apparently don't have to test to use s7. That aside this is the section: 4-2.3.2 Piping. Installations must evaluate the water quality (pertaining to corrosion) to determine if Schedule 10 steel pipe can be used for sprinkler system piping greater than 50mm (2-inches). Water quality analysis must evaluate both microbiological and galvanic corrosion. Evidence of either corrosion potential or past history of sprinkler system failure due to corrosion would prohibit the use of Schedule 10 pipe. \1\ /1/ Chris Cahill, PE* Senior Fire Protection Engineer, Aviation Facilities Group Burns McDonnell 8201 Norman Center Drive Bloomington, MN 55437 Phone: 952.656.3652 Fax: 952.229.2923 ccah...@burnsmcd.com www.burnsmcd.com Proud to be one of FORTUNE's 100 Best Companies to Work For *Registered in: MN -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Jay Stough Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 12:46 PM To: Sprinkler -Forum Subject: UFC3-600-01 I have an engineer rejecting plans without awater quality analysis per the UFC. The only thing I found is this paragraph: Analysis of automatic sprinkler systems and suppression systems and protected areas, including hydraulic analysis of required water demand. Could anyone fill me in to what they are looking for? Jay Stough -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120405/9aca67ab/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
RE: UFC3-600-01
I found someone to take my $500. To do a water test but nobody can tell me if we passed or failed. Richard Cahill, Christopher ccah...@burnsmcd.com wrote: Pass/fail true but they don't even say what test. Taste is what we spec, lol. Chris -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Richard Carr Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 12:59 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: UFC3-600-01 Yes,but they don't list a level of pass or fail. Cahill, Christopher ccah...@burnsmcd.com wrote: Only required if you are using s10. It never says you have to use s40. And apparently don't have to test to use s7. That aside this is the section: 4-2.3.2 Piping. Installations must evaluate the water quality (pertaining to corrosion) to determine if Schedule 10 steel pipe can be used for sprinkler system piping greater than 50mm (2-inches). Water quality analysis must evaluate both microbiological and galvanic corrosion. Evidence of either corrosion potential or past history of sprinkler system failure due to corrosion would prohibit the use of Schedule 10 pipe. \1\ /1/ Chris Cahill, PE* Senior Fire Protection Engineer, Aviation Facilities Group Burns McDonnell 8201 Norman Center Drive Bloomington, MN 55437 Phone: 952.656.3652 Fax: 952.229.2923 ccah...@burnsmcd.com www.burnsmcd.com Proud to be one of FORTUNE's 100 Best Companies to Work For *Registered in: MN -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Jay Stough Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 12:46 PM To: Sprinkler -Forum Subject: UFC3-600-01 I have an engineer rejecting plans without awater quality analysis per the UFC. The only thing I found is this paragraph: Analysis of automatic sprinkler systems and suppression systems and protected areas, including hydraulic analysis of required water demand. Could anyone fill me in to what they are looking for? Jay Stough -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120405/9aca67ab/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
UFC3-600-01
Thanks. I had not had anyone ask about MIC in so long, I forgot about it. Is anyone testing for MIC and finding anything? In the last two years, we've tested 8 systems and only 1 had the possibility of bacterial growth. Jay Stough From: etamb...@aerofire.com etamb...@aerofire.com To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 1:54 PM Subject: RE: UFC3-600-01 We had a similar comment come up on a USACE project and we were allowed to get a letter from the local fire marshal saying that there have been no historical problems with piping corrosion in their district. Ed AERO Automatic Sprinkler Company -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120405/e6c0d21d/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
Remove from email subscription
Please remove my email address from the list. Thank you. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120405/6417c5c1/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
RE: UFC3-600-01
You may also have a 25 year system life on your job, and this may not be incorporated into the sprinkler specification. It may be in the boiler plate that's in the hands of the general contractor, and it may not have been passed along to you. I believe the sprinkler system would be one of the elements that would have to meet this life span. In my experience this particular requirement is not well understood by anyone on the design side, the contracting side, or the owner. Whatever you do you better make it clear what you intend to provide. The standard use schedule 40 may not be applicable for aggressive water conditions if the Sched. 40 pipe won't last 25 years. Bill Brooks William N. Brooks, P.E. Brooks Fire Protection Engineering Inc. 372 Wilett Drive Severna Park, MD 21146-1904 410-544-3620 410-544-3032 FAX 412-400-6528 Cell -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Jay Stough Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 2:43 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: UFC3-600-01 Thanks. I had not had anyone ask about MIC in so long, I forgot about it. Is anyone testing for MIC and finding anything? In the last two years, we've tested 8 systems and only 1 had the possibility of bacterial growth. Jay Stough From: etamb...@aerofire.com etamb...@aerofire.com To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 1:54 PM Subject: RE: UFC3-600-01 We had a similar comment come up on a USACE project and we were allowed to get a letter from the local fire marshal saying that there have been no historical problems with piping corrosion in their district. Ed AERO Automatic Sprinkler Company -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachment s/20120405/e6c0d21d/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
