RE: 8.17.5 Hose Connections

2020-10-02 Thread Kyle.Montgomery via Sprinklerforum 
OK, so it's the IBC that specifies when/where a hose connection of that type 
can be supplied by the sprinklers system. I'm seeing it now.

Thanks, Steve and others.

-Kyle M

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From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of Steve Leyton via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Friday, October 2, 2020 12:40 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Steve Leyton ; Michael Hill 

Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: 8.17.5 Hose Connections

Hoses for fire department use are described as 2½" in 8.17.5.2, so never mind 
1½" for purposes of this discussion.Three conditions come to mind where 
Fire Department hose valves (you notice I didn't say Class I standpipe 
connections, because these are not exclusively considered standpipes) might be 
required and are specifically allowed to be supplied by the sprinkler system:

1.   Stages over 1,000 sq. ft. in area
2.   Exit passageways
3.   Covered mall buildings, at locations specified in the Building Code

In these cases, an inside hose stream allowance must be taken at the point 
where combined main piping supplies the most demanding hose connection.   Many 
AHJ agencies (at least the ones that are on the ball) require a calculation 
from the FDC to prove the required flow rate and may have ordinances or 
policies that specify the flow rate.   

The foregoing is my opinion only and does not represent NFPA or the NFPA 14 
Technical Committee, nor intended to serve as an interpretation of the standard.

Steve Leyton
Protection Design & Consulting
San Diego, CA 





-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of Michael Hill via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2020 12:24 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Michael Hill 
Subject: RE: 8.17.5 Hose Connections

Would small hoses at a stage qualify?

Mike Hill

-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of Kyle.Montgomery via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Friday, October 2, 2020 3:16 PM
To: 'sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org' 

Cc: Kyle.Montgomery 
Subject: 8.17.5 Hose Connections

So, I understand the "Small [1 ½ in. ] Hose Connections" that are discussed in 
8.17.5.1. You typically find these in rack storage warehouses.

But I'm confused by 8.17.5.2 Hose Connections for Fire Department Use. What 
hose connections would these be? Or, perhaps I should ask when these hose 
connections would be required. The description and the associated figures looks 
like it is referring to the hose valves you would find as part of a combined 
sprinkler/standpipe system. But the commentary in the handbook says 
specifically "These connections are not to be treated as standpipe hose 
connections".

-Kyle M
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RE: 8.17.5 Hose Connections

2020-10-02 Thread Steve Leyton via Sprinklerforum 
Hoses for fire department use are described as 2½" in 8.17.5.2, so never mind 
1½" for purposes of this discussion.Three conditions come to mind where 
Fire Department hose valves (you notice I didn't say Class I standpipe 
connections, because these are not exclusively considered standpipes) might be 
required and are specifically allowed to be supplied by the sprinkler system:

1.   Stages over 1,000 sq. ft. in area
2.   Exit passageways
3.   Covered mall buildings, at locations specified in the Building Code

In these cases, an inside hose stream allowance must be taken at the point 
where combined main piping supplies the most demanding hose connection.   Many 
AHJ agencies (at least the ones that are on the ball) require a calculation 
from the FDC to prove the required flow rate and may have ordinances or 
policies that specify the flow rate.   

The foregoing is my opinion only and does not represent NFPA or the NFPA 14 
Technical Committee, nor intended to serve as an interpretation of the standard.

Steve Leyton
Protection Design & Consulting
San Diego, CA 





-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of Michael Hill via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2020 12:24 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Michael Hill 
Subject: RE: 8.17.5 Hose Connections

Would small hoses at a stage qualify?

Mike Hill

-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of Kyle.Montgomery via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Friday, October 2, 2020 3:16 PM
To: 'sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org' 

Cc: Kyle.Montgomery 
Subject: 8.17.5 Hose Connections

So, I understand the "Small [1 ½ in. ] Hose Connections" that are discussed in 
8.17.5.1. You typically find these in rack storage warehouses.

But I'm confused by 8.17.5.2 Hose Connections for Fire Department Use. What 
hose connections would these be? Or, perhaps I should ask when these hose 
connections would be required. The description and the associated figures looks 
like it is referring to the hose valves you would find as part of a combined 
sprinkler/standpipe system. But the commentary in the handbook says 
specifically "These connections are not to be treated as standpipe hose 
connections".

-Kyle M
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Re: 8.17.5 Hose Connections

2020-10-02 Thread John Denhardt via Sprinklerforum 
In a storage application, hose connections (without hose) are for the
responding trained emergency personnel to utilize for "mop up" and if
necessary final extinguishment. of the fire.  They are not considered as
part of a standpipe system.

*The above is my personal opinion as a professional engineer.  It has not
been processed as a formal interpretation in accordance with the NFPA
Regulations Governing Committee Projects and should therefore not be
considered, nor relied upon, as the official position of the NFPA.  *

Thanks,
John

John August Denhardt, PE
*Vice President, Engineering and Technical Services*

*American Fire Sprinkler Association*
m: p: 301-343-1457
214-349-5965 ext 121
w: firesprinkler.org



   

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On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 3:16 PM Kyle.Montgomery via Sprinklerforum <
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote:

> So, I understand the "Small [1 ½ in. ] Hose Connections" that are
> discussed in 8.17.5.1. You typically find these in rack storage warehouses.
>
> But I'm confused by 8.17.5.2 Hose Connections for Fire Department Use.
> What hose connections would these be? Or, perhaps I should ask when these
> hose connections would be required. The description and the associated
> figures looks like it is referring to the hose valves you would find as
> part of a combined sprinkler/standpipe system. But the commentary in the
> handbook says specifically "These connections are not to be treated as
> standpipe hose connections".
>
> -Kyle M
> ___
> Sprinklerforum mailing list
> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>
> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
>
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RE: 8.17.5 Hose Connections

2020-10-02 Thread Michael Hill via Sprinklerforum 
Would small hoses at a stage qualify?

Mike Hill

-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of Kyle.Montgomery via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Friday, October 2, 2020 3:16 PM
To: 'sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org' 

Cc: Kyle.Montgomery 
Subject: 8.17.5 Hose Connections

So, I understand the "Small [1 ½ in. ] Hose Connections" that are discussed in 
8.17.5.1. You typically find these in rack storage warehouses.

But I'm confused by 8.17.5.2 Hose Connections for Fire Department Use. What 
hose connections would these be? Or, perhaps I should ask when these hose 
connections would be required. The description and the associated figures looks 
like it is referring to the hose valves you would find as part of a combined 
sprinkler/standpipe system. But the commentary in the handbook says 
specifically "These connections are not to be treated as standpipe hose 
connections".

-Kyle M
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