Re: Uprights in non combustible concealed space

2020-07-15 Thread Dewayne Martinez via Sprinklerforum 
In Wisconsin we have done several NFPA 13 condo projects where the
architect received approval to not sprinkler the attic when smoke and heat
detection were installed. So not every state is interpreting it the same.

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 12:51 Steve Leyton via Sprinklerforum <
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote:

> I’ve had this conversation with state agencies in CA and we’re all square
> on the interpretation as I stated it.   I have spoken with fire and
> building officials from other states about this over the years and I’m
> pretty sure that your issues are regional because we’re not hearing about a
> wave of sprinklered non-combustible attics industry-wide.The exemptions
> in 903.3.1.1.1 go beyond the language of NFPA 13, which is why they are
> codified, but as written they do not supersede the exceptions in 13.   If
> it was the intent of the code to unconditionally require sprinklers in any
> area not equipped with detection, that provision would be in the NFPA 13
> standard by now.   Taking another look at 903.3.1.1, I would also proffer
> that if it was the intent of the code to require sprinklers in
> non-combustible concealed spaces and attics, those would be specifically
> listed in 903.1.1.1 but they are conspicuously not addressed, because it’s
> not the intent of that section to undo the exceptions in 13 (903.1.1) for
> those spaces.
>
>
>
> This is likely an excellent section to propose amending in the next code
> cycle, because the way it’s written, it gives some credence to the
> interpretation you’ve seen from “some building departments…”
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Anthony [mailto:anth...@archerconstruction.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 15, 2020 10:38 AM
> *To:* Steve Leyton ;
> sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org; 'Cary Webber' <
> cweb...@reliablesprinkler.com>
> *Subject:* RE: Uprights in non combustible concealed space
>
>
>
> Steve,
>
> In the PNW it has been an issue ever since the 2006 edition came out. Some
> building departments and or the fire prevention department has made
> comments on our plans review stating that based on this section in the code
> unless  some type of detention is installed in this *Area* then
> sprinklers would be required.
>
> We have had to take the steps to qualify in our sprinkler bids that we
> assume these areas are being protected by a detection system and thus
> sprinklers are not included in these areas.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> *Anthony Carrizosa *
>
> Project Manager *| *Fire Protection
>
> 7855 S 206th St Kent, WA 98032
>
> Cell: *206-679-5283* | Office: *253-872-7222*
>
>
>
> https://archerconstruction.com
> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2farcherconstruction.com%2f=E,1,Wdb65AWzMgSBzW3HDw91SfcRQCtxDUQKoJf-UowQ-WnB_WMosgG-8W7eLePJ42PwWQvLiQx16Pls052VqwHO7tKm-_u5AnWly0ewkNiMkxn-AjQb1JI,=1>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Steve Leyton 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 15, 2020 10:30 AM
> *To:* sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org; 'Cary Webber' <
> cweb...@reliablesprinkler.com>
> *Cc:* Anthony 
> *Subject:* RE: Uprights in non combustible concealed space
>
>
>
> Anthony:
>
> The code has never been enforced this way – sprinklers are required to be
> installed per NFPA 13, with its exceptions noted.  (Regarding attics, the
> term “Attic” is defined in the IBC as, “The space between the ceiling
> framing of the top story and the underside of the roof.”  An attic is not a
> room in that regard.)   I think you’re “reading further than necessary”.
> 903.3.1.1 states that where sprinklers are required to be installed per
> this section, sprinklers shall be installed per NFPA 13.  13 includes very
> specific exceptions for non-combustible concealed spaces such as attics and
> floor/ceiling interstitial spaces.  So, where sprinklers are required,
> follow 13 and the building is considered “fully sprinklered” per the code.
>
>
>
> 903.3.1.1.1 goes further, and clarifies the language in both 13 and the
> IBC that states “all areas” of the building must be protected with
> sprinklers.  In that context, this section expands on the rooms and areas
> where sprinkler protection can be excluded, but ONLY if detection is
> provided.   I don’t believe it has ever been the intent of 903.1.1.1 to
> supersede the exceptions in 13 for non-combustible concealed spaces.   If
> that was the intent, we would have been putting sprinklers into concealed
> spaces for years and the NFPA 13 committee would have already harmonized
> the standard with the code.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Sprinklerforum [
> mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@

RE: Uprights in non combustible concealed space

2020-07-15 Thread Steve Leyton via Sprinklerforum 
I've had this conversation with state agencies in CA and we're all square on 
the interpretation as I stated it.   I have spoken with fire and building 
officials from other states about this over the years and I'm pretty sure that 
your issues are regional because we're not hearing about a wave of sprinklered 
non-combustible attics industry-wide.The exemptions in 903.3.1.1.1 go 
beyond the language of NFPA 13, which is why they are codified, but as written 
they do not supersede the exceptions in 13.   If it was the intent of the code 
to unconditionally require sprinklers in any area not equipped with detection, 
that provision would be in the NFPA 13 standard by now.   Taking another look 
at 903.3.1.1, I would also proffer that if it was the intent of the code to 
require sprinklers in non-combustible concealed spaces and attics, those would 
be specifically listed in 903.1.1.1 but they are conspicuously not addressed, 
because it's not the intent of that section to undo the exceptions in 13 
(903.1.1) for those spaces.

This is likely an excellent section to propose amending in the next code cycle, 
because the way it's written, it gives some credence to the interpretation 
you've seen from "some building departments..."


[cid:image005.jpg@01D65A95.D028F3A0]



From: Anthony [mailto:anth...@archerconstruction.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 10:38 AM
To: Steve Leyton ; 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org; 'Cary Webber' 

Subject: RE: Uprights in non combustible concealed space

Steve,
In the PNW it has been an issue ever since the 2006 edition came out. Some 
building departments and or the fire prevention department has made comments on 
our plans review stating that based on this section in the code unless  some 
type of detention is installed in this Area then sprinklers would be required.
We have had to take the steps to qualify in our sprinkler bids that we assume 
these areas are being protected by a detection system and thus sprinklers are 
not included in these areas.

Thanks

Anthony Carrizosa
Project Manager | Fire Protection
7855 S 206th St Kent, WA 98032
Cell: 206-679-5283 | Office: 253-872-7222

[cid:image001.jpg@01D65A95.0CA27A50]
https://archerconstruction.com<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2farcherconstruction.com%2f=E,1,Wdb65AWzMgSBzW3HDw91SfcRQCtxDUQKoJf-UowQ-WnB_WMosgG-8W7eLePJ42PwWQvLiQx16Pls052VqwHO7tKm-_u5AnWly0ewkNiMkxn-AjQb1JI,=1>



From: Steve Leyton 
mailto:st...@protectiondesign.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 10:30 AM
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>;
 'Cary Webber' 
mailto:cweb...@reliablesprinkler.com>>
Cc: Anthony 
mailto:anth...@archerconstruction.com>>
Subject: RE: Uprights in non combustible concealed space

Anthony:

The code has never been enforced this way - sprinklers are required to be 
installed per NFPA 13, with its exceptions noted.  (Regarding attics, the term 
"Attic" is defined in the IBC as, "The space between the ceiling framing of the 
top story and the underside of the roof."  An attic is not a room in that 
regard.)   I think you're "reading further than necessary".   903.3.1.1 states 
that where sprinklers are required to be installed per this section, sprinklers 
shall be installed per NFPA 13.  13 includes very specific exceptions for 
non-combustible concealed spaces such as attics and floor/ceiling interstitial 
spaces.  So, where sprinklers are required, follow 13 and the building is 
considered "fully sprinklered" per the code.

903.3.1.1.1 goes further, and clarifies the language in both 13 and the IBC 
that states "all areas" of the building must be protected with sprinklers.  In 
that context, this section expands on the rooms and areas where sprinkler 
protection can be excluded, but ONLY if detection is provided.   I don't 
believe it has ever been the intent of 903.1.1.1 to supersede the exceptions in 
13 for non-combustible concealed spaces.   If that was the intent, we would 
have been putting sprinklers into concealed spaces for years and the NFPA 13 
committee would have already harmonized the standard with the code.


[cid:image002.jpg@01D65A95.0CA27A50]




From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of Anthony via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 6:57 AM
To: 'Cary Webber' 
mailto:cweb...@reliablesprinkler.com>>; 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Cc: Anthony 
mailto:anth...@archerconstruction.com>>
Subject: RE: Uprights in non combustible concealed space

All, in the IBC it says in section 903.3.1.1 NFPA 13 sprinkler systems.
Where the provisions of this code require that a building or portion
thereof be equipped throughout with an automatic
sprinkler system in accordance with this section, sprinklers
shall be installed th

RE: Uprights in non combustible concealed space

2020-07-15 Thread Anthony via Sprinklerforum 
Steve,

In the PNW it has been an issue ever since the 2006 edition came out. Some
building departments and or the fire prevention department has made comments
on our plans review stating that based on this section in the code unless
some type of detention is installed in this Area then sprinklers would be
required. 

We have had to take the steps to qualify in our sprinkler bids that we
assume these areas are being protected by a detection system and thus
sprinklers are not included in these areas.

 

Thanks

 

Anthony Carrizosa 

Project Manager | Fire Protection 

7855 S 206th St Kent, WA 98032

Cell: 206-679-5283 | Office: 253-872-7222 

 



https://archerconstruction.com
<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2farcherconstruction.com%
2f=E,1,Wdb65AWzMgSBzW3HDw91SfcRQCtxDUQKoJf-UowQ-WnB_WMosgG-8W7eLePJ42PwWQv
LiQx16Pls052VqwHO7tKm-_u5AnWly0ewkNiMkxn-AjQb1JI,=1> 

 

 

 

From: Steve Leyton  
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 10:30 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org; 'Cary Webber'

Cc: Anthony 
Subject: RE: Uprights in non combustible concealed space 

 

Anthony:

The code has never been enforced this way - sprinklers are required to be
installed per NFPA 13, with its exceptions noted.  (Regarding attics, the
term "Attic" is defined in the IBC as, "The space between the ceiling
framing of the top story and the underside of the roof."  An attic is not a
room in that regard.)   I think you're "reading further than necessary".
903.3.1.1 states that where sprinklers are required to be installed per this
section, sprinklers shall be installed per NFPA 13.  13 includes very
specific exceptions for non-combustible concealed spaces such as attics and
floor/ceiling interstitial spaces.  So, where sprinklers are required,
follow 13 and the building is considered "fully sprinklered" per the code.

 

903.3.1.1.1 goes further, and clarifies the language in both 13 and the IBC
that states "all areas" of the building must be protected with sprinklers.
In that context, this section expands on the rooms and areas where sprinkler
protection can be excluded, but ONLY if detection is provided.   I don't
believe it has ever been the intent of 903.1.1.1 to supersede the exceptions
in 13 for non-combustible concealed spaces.   If that was the intent, we
would have been putting sprinklers into concealed spaces for years and the
NFPA 13 committee would have already harmonized the standard with the code. 

 

 



 

 

 

 

From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
On Behalf Of Anthony via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 6:57 AM
To: 'Cary Webber' mailto:cweb...@reliablesprinkler.com> >;
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> 
Cc: Anthony mailto:anth...@archerconstruction.com> >
Subject: RE: Uprights in non combustible concealed space 

 

All, in the IBC it says in section 903.3.1.1 NFPA 13 sprinkler systems. 

Where the provisions of this code require that a building or portion

thereof be equipped throughout with an automatic

sprinkler system in accordance with this section, sprinklers

shall be installed throughout in accordance with

NFPA 13 except as provided in Sections 903.3.1.1.1

and 903.3.1.1.2.

 

903.3.1.1.1 Exempt locations. Automatic sprinklers

shall not be required in the following rooms or

areas where such rooms or areas are protected with

an approved automatic fire detection system in

accordance with Section 907.2 that will respond to

visible or invisible particles of combustion. 

Sprinklers shall not be omitted from a room merely

because it is damp, of fire-resistance-rated construction

or contains electrical equipment.

4.Rooms or areas that are of noncombustible

construction with wholly noncombustible contents.

 

This non combustible area above the ceiling is not required to be
sprinklered per NFPA 13 but as mentioned in the IBC it's only if the area is
protected with approved automatic fire detection system.

You could check to see if this area has any smoke detectors and if not use
this section to show that the upright protection of a non-combustible area
is required per the IBC. 

 

 

Anthony Carrizosa 

Project Manager | Fire Protection 

7855 S 206th St Kent, WA 98032

Cell: 206-679-5283 | Office: 253-872-7222 

 



https://archerconstruction.com
<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2farcherconstruction.com%
2f=E,1,Wdb65AWzMgSBzW3HDw91SfcRQCtxDUQKoJf-UowQ-WnB_WMosgG-8W7eLePJ42PwWQv
LiQx16Pls052VqwHO7tKm-_u5AnWly0ewkNiMkxn-AjQb1JI,=1> 

 

 

 

 

 

From: Cary Webber mailto:cweb...@reliablesprinkler.com> > 
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2020 11:29 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> 
Subject: RE: Uprights in non combustible concealed space 

 

On the downside, if all areas above the ceilings are not

RE: Uprights in non combustible concealed space

2020-07-15 Thread Steve Leyton via Sprinklerforum 
Anthony:

The code has never been enforced this way - sprinklers are required to be 
installed per NFPA 13, with its exceptions noted.  (Regarding attics, the term 
"Attic" is defined in the IBC as, "The space between the ceiling framing of the 
top story and the underside of the roof."  An attic is not a room in that 
regard.)   I think you're "reading further than necessary".   903.3.1.1 states 
that where sprinklers are required to be installed per this section, sprinklers 
shall be installed per NFPA 13.  13 includes very specific exceptions for 
non-combustible concealed spaces such as attics and floor/ceiling interstitial 
spaces.  So, where sprinklers are required, follow 13 and the building is 
considered "fully sprinklered" per the code.

903.3.1.1.1 goes further, and clarifies the language in both 13 and the IBC 
that states "all areas" of the building must be protected with sprinklers.  In 
that context, this section expands on the rooms and areas where sprinkler 
protection can be excluded, but ONLY if detection is provided.   I don't 
believe it has ever been the intent of 903.1.1.1 to supersede the exceptions in 
13 for non-combustible concealed spaces.   If that was the intent, we would 
have been putting sprinklers into concealed spaces for years and the NFPA 13 
committee would have already harmonized the standard with the code.


[cid:image004.jpg@01D65A92.D741FF40]




From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of Anthony via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 6:57 AM
To: 'Cary Webber' ; 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Anthony 
Subject: RE: Uprights in non combustible concealed space

All, in the IBC it says in section 903.3.1.1 NFPA 13 sprinkler systems.
Where the provisions of this code require that a building or portion
thereof be equipped throughout with an automatic
sprinkler system in accordance with this section, sprinklers
shall be installed throughout in accordance with
NFPA 13 except as provided in Sections 903.3.1.1.1
and 903.3.1.1.2.

903.3.1.1.1 Exempt locations. Automatic sprinklers
shall not be required in the following rooms or
areas where such rooms or areas are protected with
an approved automatic fire detection system in
accordance with Section 907.2 that will respond to
visible or invisible particles of combustion.
Sprinklers shall not be omitted from a room merely
because it is damp, of fire-resistance-rated construction
or contains electrical equipment.
4.Rooms or areas that are of noncombustible
construction with wholly noncombustible contents.

This non combustible area above the ceiling is not required to be sprinklered 
per NFPA 13 but as mentioned in the IBC it's only if the area is protected with 
approved automatic fire detection system.
You could check to see if this area has any smoke detectors and if not use this 
section to show that the upright protection of a non-combustible area is 
required per the IBC.


Anthony Carrizosa
Project Manager | Fire Protection
7855 S 206th St Kent, WA 98032
Cell: 206-679-5283 | Office: 253-872-7222

[cid:image001.jpg@01D65A8F.95FE4320]
https://archerconstruction.com<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2farcherconstruction.com%2f=E,1,Wdb65AWzMgSBzW3HDw91SfcRQCtxDUQKoJf-UowQ-WnB_WMosgG-8W7eLePJ42PwWQvLiQx16Pls052VqwHO7tKm-_u5AnWly0ewkNiMkxn-AjQb1JI,=1>





From: Cary Webber 
mailto:cweb...@reliablesprinkler.com>>
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2020 11:29 AM
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Subject: RE: Uprights in non combustible concealed space

On the downside, if all areas above the ceilings are not protected, it may give 
a false sense of security. On the upside, more sprinklers are better, and even 
if not required they can act as detectors in the space. Bottom line is that the 
AHJ has ultimate decision making authority.



Cary Webber CFPS Director, Technical Services
Reliable Automatic Sprinkler Co., Inc.
1470 Smith Grove Road, Liberty, SC  29657
Tel: 864-843-5161

[https://www.reliablesprinkler.com/sites/default/files/image001.png]<http://www.reliablesprinkler.com/>

From: Sprinklerforum 
mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
 On Behalf Of John Irwin via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2020 2:21 PM
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Cc: John Irwin mailto:jir...@quickresponsefl.com>>
Subject: Uprights in non combustible concealed space

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click 
links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the 
content is safe.

We installed temporary upright Protection in a partially occupied building 
during a major renovation. We then came back and dropped pendent heads in the 
new ceiling. We left the uprights above the new cei

RE: Uprights in non combustible concealed space

2020-07-15 Thread Anthony via Sprinklerforum 
All, in the IBC it says in section 903.3.1.1 NFPA 13 sprinkler systems. 

Where the provisions of this code require that a building or portion

thereof be equipped throughout with an automatic

sprinkler system in accordance with this section, sprinklers

shall be installed throughout in accordance with

NFPA 13 except as provided in Sections 903.3.1.1.1

and 903.3.1.1.2.

903.3.1.1.1 Exempt locations. Automatic sprinklers

shall not be required in the following rooms or

areas where such rooms or areas are protected with

an approved automatic fire detection system in

accordance with Section 907.2 that will respond to

visible or invisible particles of combustion. 

Sprinklers shall not be omitted from a room merely

because it is damp, of fire-resistance-rated construction

or contains electrical equipment.

4.Rooms or areas that are of noncombustible

construction with wholly noncombustible contents.

 

This non combustible area above the ceiling is not required to be
sprinklered per NFPA 13 but as mentioned in the IBC it's only if the area is
protected with approved automatic fire detection system.

You could check to see if this area has any smoke detectors and if not use
this section to show that the upright protection of a non-combustible area
is required per the IBC. 

 

 

Anthony Carrizosa 

Project Manager | Fire Protection 

7855 S 206th St Kent, WA 98032

Cell: 206-679-5283 | Office: 253-872-7222 

 



https://archerconstruction.com
<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2farcherconstruction.com%
2f=E,1,Wdb65AWzMgSBzW3HDw91SfcRQCtxDUQKoJf-UowQ-WnB_WMosgG-8W7eLePJ42PwWQv
LiQx16Pls052VqwHO7tKm-_u5AnWly0ewkNiMkxn-AjQb1JI,=1> 

 

 

 

 

 

From: Cary Webber  
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2020 11:29 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Uprights in non combustible concealed space 

 

On the downside, if all areas above the ceilings are not protected, it may
give a false sense of security. On the upside, more sprinklers are better,
and even if not required they can act as detectors in the space. Bottom line
is that the AHJ has ultimate decision making authority.

 

 

 

Cary Webber CFPS Director, Technical Services

Reliable Automatic Sprinkler Co., Inc.

1470 Smith Grove Road, Liberty, SC  29657 

Tel: 864-843-5161 

 

 <http://www.reliablesprinkler.com/> 

 

From: Sprinklerforum mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org> > On Behalf Of John
Irwin via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2020 2:21 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> 
Cc: John Irwin mailto:jir...@quickresponsefl.com> >
Subject: Uprights in non combustible concealed space 

 

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not
click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know
the content is safe. 

 

We installed temporary upright Protection in a partially occupied building
during a major renovation. We then came back and dropped pendent heads in
the new ceiling. We left the uprights above the new ceiling. Fire inspector
says we need to remove the uprights now. Is there a basis for removing
these? I realize they are not required but are they permitted to remain? 

 

John Irwin

___
Sprinklerforum mailing list
Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org

Re: Uprights in non combustible concealed space

2020-06-19 Thread Fpdcdesign via Sprinklerforum 
  
  

 Ed, I think you need at least one more post. Your reflections of your time in 
this industry. I echo everyone else in thanking you for all you have 
contributed.   
  

  
  
  

  
  
>   
> On Jun 19, 2020 at 4:48 AM,   (mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org)>  wrote:
>   
>   
>   
>   
>
>  Ed – if this IS your last post, I want to thank you for contributing all 
> these years since the onset of the SprinklerForum.  Had NO idea you were 
> so young – my Pops is 92, but wouldn’t be caught dead posting on the Forum.   
>Of course, his only remaining interest in fire protection these days is me…
>
>   
>
> 
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>  BEST WISHES!
>
>   
>
> 
>
>   
>
>  Steve Leyton
>
>   
>
> 
>
>   
>
> From:   Sprinklerforum 
> [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]  On Behalf Of  Ed 
> Vining via Sprinklerforum
>   Sent:  Thursday, June 18, 2020 11:35 AM
>   To:  sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>   Cc:  Ed Vining  
>   Subject:  Re: Uprights in non combustible concealed space
>
>   
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>
> Not really. The codes and standards determine the decision.
>
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> This may be my last post. At the age of 95 I am starting to lose interest.
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> Ed Vining
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> 2770 Pleasant Hill Rd Apt 228
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>
> Pleasant Hill CA 95423
>
>   
>   
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> 925-448-2159  
>  
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> fpe...@gmail.com (mailto:fpe...@gmail.com)
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>   
>   
>
> On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 11:28 AM Cary Webber via Sprinklerforum  
>  (mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org)>  wrote:
>
>   
>   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >
> > On the downside, if all areas above the ceilings are not protected, it may 
> > give a false sense of security. On the upside, more sprinklers are better, 
> > and even if not required they can act as detectors in the space. Bottom 
> > line is that the AHJ has ultimate decision making authority.
> >
> >   
> >
> >   
> >
> >   
> >   
> >
> > 
> >
> >   
> >
> > 
> >
> >   
> >
> >   Cary Webber CFPSDirector, Technical Services
> >
> >   
> >
> > Reliable Automatic Sprinkler Co., Inc.
> >
> >   
> >
> > 1470 Smith Grove Road, Liberty, SC29657
> >
> >   
> >
> > Tel: 864-843-5161
> >
> >   
> >
> >   
> >
> >   
> >
> >
> >
> >   
> >   
> >
> >   
> >
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >
> > From:  Sprinklerforum   > (mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org)>   On Behalf Of  
> > John Irwin via Sprinklerforum
> >   Sent:  Thursday, June 18, 2020 2:21 PM
> >   To:   sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org 
> > (mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org)
> >   Cc:  John Irwin   > (mailto:jir...@quickresponsefl.com)>
> >   Subject:  Uprights in non combustible concealed space
> >
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >
> >   
> >
> >   
> >   
> >
> >CAUTION:   This email originated from outside of the organization. Do 
> > not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and 
> > know the content is safe.
> >
> >   
> >   
> >
> >   
> >
> >   
> >   
> >
> >   We installed temporary upright Protection in a partially occupied 
> > building during a major renovation. We then came back and dropped pendent 
> > heads in the new ceiling. We left the uprights above the new ceiling. Fire 
> > inspector says we need to remove the uprights now. Is there a basis for 
> > removing these? I realize they are not required but are they permitted to 
> > remain?   
> >
> >   
> >   
> >
> >   
> >
> >   
> >   
> >
> > John Irwin
> >
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >
> >  ___
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> >
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>   
>   
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Re: Uprights in non combustible concealed space

2020-06-18 Thread Ben Young via Sprinklerforum 
Ed, thanks for many years of help, information and stories here on the
sprinkler forum. Hate to see you go but I get it.



On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 2:43 PM Ed Vining via Sprinklerforum <
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote:

> Not really. The codes and standards determine the decision.
>
> This may be my last post. At the age of 95 I am starting to lose interest.
>
>
> Ed Vining
> 2770 Pleasant Hill Rd Apt 228
> 
> Pleasant Hill CA 95423
> 
> 925-448-2159
> fpe...@gmail.com
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 11:28 AM Cary Webber via Sprinklerforum <
> sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote:
>
>> On the downside, if all areas above the ceilings are not protected, it
>> may give a false sense of security. On the upside, more sprinklers are
>> better, and even if not required they can act as detectors in the space.
>> Bottom line is that the AHJ has ultimate decision making authority.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Cary Webber CFPS* *Director, Technical Services*
>>
>> Reliable Automatic Sprinkler Co., Inc.
>>
>> 1470 Smith Grove Road, Liberty, SC  29657
>> 
>>
>> Tel: 864-843-5161
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Sprinklerforum  *On
>> Behalf Of *John Irwin via Sprinklerforum
>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 18, 2020 2:21 PM
>> *To:* sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>> *Cc:* John Irwin 
>> *Subject:* Uprights in non combustible concealed space
>>
>>
>>
>> *CAUTION:* This email originated from outside of the organization. Do
>> not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and
>> know the content is safe.
>>
>>
>>
>> We installed temporary upright Protection in a partially occupied
>> building during a major renovation. We then came back and dropped pendent
>> heads in the new ceiling. We left the uprights above the new ceiling. Fire
>> inspector says we need to remove the uprights now. Is there a basis for
>> removing these? I realize they are not required but are they permitted to
>> remain?
>>
>>
>>
>> John Irwin
>> ___
>> Sprinklerforum mailing list
>> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>>
>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
>>
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>
-- 

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RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Uprights in non combustible concealed space

2020-06-18 Thread Kyle.Montgomery via Sprinklerforum 
So, what would make them non-compliant? Obstructions, like ductwork and stuff?

When we’ve gotten similar pushback, it’s been because we’ve had 155-degree 
heads and the inspector has claimed that they aren’t appropriate for an 
unconditioned space (we’re working in Phoenix, so it can get unbelievably hot 
in “attic” spaces). I don’t know if that’s actually a concern though; I’m not 
aware of any sprinklers activating in this scenario.

-Kyle M

From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of Tony Silva via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2020 2:49 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Tony Silva ; Travis Mack, SET, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G 
; Ed Vining 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Uprights in non combustible concealed space

Yes, it is specified in NFPA 13. NFPA 13, does not tell you which buildings are 
required to be sprinklered, which task is up to the building code or local 
ordinances. However, if the building is sprinklered (whether by mandate or 
voluntarily), it has to comply with NFPA 13. Note that the scope of NFPA 13 is 
to provide minimum requirements for the design and installation of automatic 
sprinkler systems. Not just the requirements for systems that are mandated.

Just take the garage in your home. Depending on local requirements, you may not 
require one for your house. However, if you build one, it has to comply with 
code requirements.

So if you leave the sprinklers in the concealed space, make sure they comply 
with code requirements.

My two cents, Tony

On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 12:48 PM Travis Mack, SET, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G via 
Sprinklerforum 
mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
 wrote:
I could be wrong, but isn’t there something in IFC that states a fire 
protection system left in place needs to be compliant for the area?  I’ve had 
inspectors interpret as you indicate.  It’s the rationale that you can’t leave 
dead sprinkler pipe in the air.

Now, I have had this same situation and argued in the case the sprinkler was 
just a “glorified plug.”  Contractor was in a bind, no access to remove the 
sprinklers.

But, if you dig into the fire code, you may find where he is at least starting 
from.  You won’t find your answer in NFPA 13.


[MFP_logo_F]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.mfpdesign.com_=DwMFaQ=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA=Z_2A85VL7AQzoqudh6uOyS3bn8etxB7nLN8OBJwQd9A=Mob4mFnZn69hN4XUuGusdTNb0b4NOCBnatLXln4_TA4=-kLVx2brNHGaVRJeTfoRb5PzFUNdGr3iCMvNnKNARAw=>
Travis Mack, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G, SET
Engineering Manager
MFP Design
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
NEW EXTENSION: 480-505-9271 ext. 700
NEW MOBILE: 480-272-2471
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Re: Uprights in non combustible concealed space

2020-06-18 Thread Tony Silva via Sprinklerforum 
Yes, it is specified in NFPA 13. NFPA 13, does not tell you which buildings
are required to be sprinklered, which task is up to the building code or
local ordinances. However, if the building is sprinklered (whether by
mandate or voluntarily), it has to comply with NFPA 13. Note that the scope
of NFPA 13 is to provide minimum requirements for the design and
installation of automatic sprinkler systems. Not just the requirements for
systems that are mandated.

Just take the garage in your home. Depending on local requirements, you may
not require one for your house. However, if you build one, it has to comply
with code requirements.

So if you leave the sprinklers in the concealed space, make sure they
comply with code requirements.

My two cents, Tony

On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 12:48 PM Travis Mack, SET, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G via
Sprinklerforum  wrote:

> *I could be wrong, but isn’t there something in IFC that states a fire
> protection system left in place needs to be compliant for the area?  I’ve
> had inspectors interpret as you indicate.  It’s the rationale that you
> can’t leave dead sprinkler pipe in the air.*
>
>
>
> *Now, I have had this same situation and argued in the case the sprinkler
> was just a “glorified plug.”  Contractor was in a bind, no access to remove
> the sprinklers.  *
>
>
>
> *But, if you dig into the fire code, you may find where he is at least
> starting from.  You won’t find your answer in NFPA 13.*
>
>
>
>
>
> [image: MFP_logo_F] <http://www.mfpdesign.com/>
>
> Travis Mack, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G, SET
>
> Engineering Manager
>
> MFP Design
>
> 3356 E Vallejo Ct
>
> Gilbert, AZ 85298
>
> NEW EXTENSION: 480-505-9271 ext. 700
>
> NEW MOBILE: 480-272-2471
>
> tm...@mfpdesign.com
>
> travis.m...@ferguson.com
>
> www.mfpdesign.com
>
>
>
> Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hightail.com%2Fu%2FMFPDesign=02%7C01%7C%7C1121d49f9e6b4cf248f108d4df580e77%7C14e5497c16da42e69ffa77d19bafe511%7C0%7C0%7C636379016677342180=eGdMZGu2wXhUupGwgGTrqF3b54OP5%2BAZvlHhABSexWY%3D=0>
>
> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/travismack
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Ftravismack=02%7C01%7C%7C1121d49f9e6b4cf248f108d4df580e77%7C14e5497c16da42e69ffa77d19bafe511%7C0%7C0%7C636379016677342180=tT5E7LsZjSmyreKi4gDCa70EWN%2BZodi%2FhbeCbHNRijI%3D=0>
>
>
>
> *“**The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of
> low price is forgotten.**”*
>
>
>
> *Need/Want a faster way to check material pricing?  Build a material
> quote?  Check availability ?   Searching for an invoice?*
>
> *If you do not already have an account with ferguson.com, click *here*
> <https://www.ferguson.com/account-registration> to register.*
>
> **Have a Ferguson account? Download the Ferguson app for on-the-go access
> to your favorite ferguson.com features. *Apple iOS devices*
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>  or *Android devices*
> <http://fergusoncommunications.us.newsweaver.com/hq7bgesq7f/n1gewi5ud95byeftyuoy12/external?email=true=6=2591775=517003>
> **
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Sprinklerforum  *On
> Behalf Of *Ed Vining via Sprinklerforum
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 18, 2020 11:35 AM
> *To:* sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> *Cc:* Ed Vining 
> *Subject:* Re: Uprights in non combustible concealed space
>
>
>
> Not really. The codes and standards determine the decision.
>
>
>
> This may be my last post. At the age of 95 I am starting to lose interest.
>
>
>
>
>
> Ed Vining
>
> 2770 Pleasant Hill Rd Apt 228
>
> Pleasant Hill CA 95423
>
> 925-448-2159
>
> fpe...@gmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 11:28 AM Cary Webber via Sprinklerforum <
> sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote:
>
> On the downside, if all areas above the ceilings are not protected, it may
> give a false sense of security. On the upside, more sprinklers are better,
> and even if not required they can act as detectors in the space. Bottom
> line is that the AHJ has ultimate decision making authority.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Cary Webber CFPS* *Director, Technical Services*
>
> Reliable Automatic Sprinkler Co., Inc.
>
> 1470 Smith Grove Road, Liberty, SC  29657
>
> Tel: 864-843-5161
>
>
>
> [image: Image removed by sender.] <http://www.reliablesprinkler.com/>
>
>
>
> *From:* Sprinklerforum  *On
> Behalf Of *John Irwin via Sprinklerforum
> *Sent:*

RE: Uprights in non combustible concealed space

2020-06-18 Thread tcfire via Sprinklerforum 
Ask him to show you the requirement for that...Chapter and verse. The AHJ can' 
just make rules up as he decides he needs to. I know of no reason to leave them 
in place unless they become totally in accessable. The only thing I can imagine 
that would create that condition would be a hard ceiling.Good luck.Sent from my 
Sprint Samsung Galaxy S8.
 Original message From: John Irwin via Sprinklerforum 
 Date: 6/18/20  2:21 PM  (GMT-05:00) 
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Cc: John Irwin 
 Subject: Uprights in non combustible concealed 
space 

We installed temporary upright Protection in a partially occupied building 
during a major renovation. We then came back and dropped pendent heads in the 
new ceiling. We left the uprights above the new ceiling. Fire inspector says we 
need to remove the uprights
 now. Is there a basis for removing these? I realize they are not required but 
are they permitted to remain? 



John Irwin

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RE: Uprights in non combustible concealed space

2020-06-18 Thread Reed A. Roisum, SET via Sprinklerforum 
Ed,
I think if you are going to stop posting you should end with a doozy, not 
something as innocuous as below...stir things up a bit. B-rad ical.  Help Mr. 
Denhardt earn his keep. 
Seriously, thank you for all of your wisdom shared.



Reed A. Roisum, SET | KFI Engineers | Senior Fire Protection Designer | Fargo, 
ND | direct: 701.552.9903 | mobile: 701.388.1352 | 
KFIengineers.com<http://www.kfiengineers.com>
From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of Ed Vining via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2020 1:35 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Ed Vining 
Subject: Re: Uprights in non combustible concealed space

Not really. The codes and standards determine the decision.

This may be my last post. At the age of 95 I am starting to lose interest.


Ed Vining
2770 Pleasant Hill Rd Apt 228
Pleasant Hill CA 95423
925-448-2159
fpe...@gmail.com<mailto:fpe...@gmail.com>


On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 11:28 AM Cary Webber via Sprinklerforum 
mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
 wrote:
On the downside, if all areas above the ceilings are not protected, it may give 
a false sense of security. On the upside, more sprinklers are better, and even 
if not required they can act as detectors in the space. Bottom line is that the 
AHJ has ultimate decision making authority.



Cary Webber CFPS Director, Technical Services
Reliable Automatic Sprinkler Co., Inc.
1470 Smith Grove Road, Liberty, SC  29657
Tel: 864-843-5161

[https://www.reliablesprinkler.com/sites/default/files/image001.png]<http://www.reliablesprinkler.com/>

From: Sprinklerforum 
mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
 On Behalf Of John Irwin via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2020 2:21 PM
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Cc: John Irwin mailto:jir...@quickresponsefl.com>>
Subject: Uprights in non combustible concealed space

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click 
links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the 
content is safe.

We installed temporary upright Protection in a partially occupied building 
during a major renovation. We then came back and dropped pendent heads in the 
new ceiling. We left the uprights above the new ceiling. Fire inspector says we 
need to remove the uprights now. Is there a basis for removing these? I realize 
they are not required but are they permitted to remain?

John Irwin
___
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RE: Uprights in non combustible concealed space

2020-06-18 Thread Steve Leyton via Sprinklerforum 
Ed – if this IS your last post, I want to thank you for contributing all these 
years since the onset of the SprinklerForum.   Had NO idea you were so young – 
my Pops is 92, but wouldn’t be caught dead posting on the Forum.   Of course, 
his only remaining interest in fire protection these days is me…

BEST WISHES!

Steve Leyton

From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of Ed Vining via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2020 11:35 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Ed Vining 
Subject: Re: Uprights in non combustible concealed space

Not really. The codes and standards determine the decision.

This may be my last post. At the age of 95 I am starting to lose interest.


Ed Vining
2770 Pleasant Hill Rd Apt 228
Pleasant Hill CA 95423
925-448-2159
fpe...@gmail.com<mailto:fpe...@gmail.com>


On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 11:28 AM Cary Webber via Sprinklerforum 
mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
 wrote:
On the downside, if all areas above the ceilings are not protected, it may give 
a false sense of security. On the upside, more sprinklers are better, and even 
if not required they can act as detectors in the space. Bottom line is that the 
AHJ has ultimate decision making authority.



Cary Webber CFPS Director, Technical Services
Reliable Automatic Sprinkler Co., Inc.
1470 Smith Grove Road, Liberty, SC  29657
Tel: 864-843-5161

[https://www.reliablesprinkler.com/sites/default/files/image001.png]<http://www.reliablesprinkler.com/>

From: Sprinklerforum 
mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
 On Behalf Of John Irwin via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2020 2:21 PM
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Cc: John Irwin mailto:jir...@quickresponsefl.com>>
Subject: Uprights in non combustible concealed space

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click 
links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the 
content is safe.

We installed temporary upright Protection in a partially occupied building 
during a major renovation. We then came back and dropped pendent heads in the 
new ceiling. We left the uprights above the new ceiling. Fire inspector says we 
need to remove the uprights now. Is there a basis for removing these? I realize 
they are not required but are they permitted to remain?

John Irwin
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RE: Uprights in non combustible concealed space

2020-06-18 Thread Travis Mack, SET, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G via Sprinklerforum 
I could be wrong, but isn’t there something in IFC that states a fire 
protection system left in place needs to be compliant for the area?  I’ve had 
inspectors interpret as you indicate.  It’s the rationale that you can’t leave 
dead sprinkler pipe in the air.

 

Now, I have had this same situation and argued in the case the sprinkler was 
just a “glorified plug.”  Contractor was in a bind, no access to remove the 
sprinklers.  

 

But, if you dig into the fire code, you may find where he is at least starting 
from.  You won’t find your answer in NFPA 13.

 

 

 <http://www.mfpdesign.com/> 

Travis Mack, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G, SET

Engineering Manager

MFP Design

3356 E Vallejo Ct

Gilbert, AZ 85298

NEW EXTENSION: 480-505-9271 ext. 700

NEW MOBILE: 480-272-2471

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www.mfpdesign.com

 

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From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of Ed Vining via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2020 11:35 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Ed Vining 
Subject: Re: Uprights in non combustible concealed space

 

Not really. The codes and standards determine the decision.

 

This may be my last post. At the age of 95 I am starting to lose interest.

 

 

Ed Vining

2770 Pleasant Hill Rd Apt 228

Pleasant Hill CA 95423

925-448-2159 

fpe...@gmail.com <mailto:fpe...@gmail.com> 

 

 

On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 11:28 AM Cary Webber via Sprinklerforum 
mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> > wrote:

On the downside, if all areas above the ceilings are not protected, it may give 
a false sense of security. On the upside, more sprinklers are better, and even 
if not required they can act as detectors in the space. Bottom line is that the 
AHJ has ultimate decision making authority.

 

 

 

Cary Webber CFPS Director, Technical Services

Reliable Automatic Sprinkler Co., Inc.

1470 Smith Grove Road, Liberty, SC  29657 

Tel: 864-843-5161 

 

 <http://www.reliablesprinkler.com/> 

 

From: Sprinklerforum mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org> > On Behalf Of John 
Irwin via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2020 2:21 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org 
<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> 
Cc: John Irwin mailto:jir...@quickresponsefl.com> >
Subject: Uprights in non combustible concealed space 

 

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click 
links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the 
content is safe. 

 

We installed temporary upright Protection in a partially occupied building 
during a major renovation. We then came back and dropped pendent heads in the 
new ceiling. We left the uprights above the new ceiling. Fire inspector says we 
need to remove the uprights now. Is there a basis for removing these? I realize 
they are not required but are they permitted to remain? 

 

John Irwin

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Re: Uprights in non combustible concealed space

2020-06-18 Thread Ed Vining via Sprinklerforum 
Not really. The codes and standards determine the decision.

This may be my last post. At the age of 95 I am starting to lose interest.


Ed Vining
2770 Pleasant Hill Rd Apt 228
Pleasant Hill CA 95423
925-448-2159
fpe...@gmail.com


On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 11:28 AM Cary Webber via Sprinklerforum <
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote:

> On the downside, if all areas above the ceilings are not protected, it may
> give a false sense of security. On the upside, more sprinklers are better,
> and even if not required they can act as detectors in the space. Bottom
> line is that the AHJ has ultimate decision making authority.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Cary Webber CFPS* *Director, Technical Services*
>
> Reliable Automatic Sprinkler Co., Inc.
>
> 1470 Smith Grove Road, Liberty, SC  29657
>
> Tel: 864-843-5161
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> *From:* Sprinklerforum  *On
> Behalf Of *John Irwin via Sprinklerforum
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 18, 2020 2:21 PM
> *To:* sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> *Cc:* John Irwin 
> *Subject:* Uprights in non combustible concealed space
>
>
>
> *CAUTION:* This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not
> click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know
> the content is safe.
>
>
>
> We installed temporary upright Protection in a partially occupied building
> during a major renovation. We then came back and dropped pendent heads in
> the new ceiling. We left the uprights above the new ceiling. Fire inspector
> says we need to remove the uprights now. Is there a basis for removing
> these? I realize they are not required but are they permitted to remain?
>
>
>
> John Irwin
> ___
> Sprinklerforum mailing list
> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>
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RE: Uprights in non combustible concealed space

2020-06-18 Thread Matt Grise via Sprinklerforum 
Agreed. You might request a reference to the code that is being enforced. I 
always say "how can I be sure I am doing it right until you tell me what the 
rule is? I would not want to accidentally fix it wrong."

Matt


From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of Richard Carr via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2020 1:33 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Richard Carr 
Subject: RE: Uprights in non combustible concealed space

The AHJ should enforce the code not make it up, code does not prohibit the 
sprinklers to remain above the ceiling.

Richard M. Carr, SET
Project Manager/Design
Diboco Fire Sprinklers, Inc.
325 Jackson Loop Road
Flat Rock, NC  28731

rich...@diboco.com<mailto:rich...@diboco.com>
828-696-3400
828-696-2288 Fax
828-708-9118 Mobile

[cid:image001.jpg@01D64575.4316B4A0]

From: Sprinklerforum 
mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
 On Behalf Of John Irwin via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2020 2:21 PM
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Cc: John Irwin mailto:jir...@quickresponsefl.com>>
Subject: Uprights in non combustible concealed space

We installed temporary upright Protection in a partially occupied building 
during a major renovation. We then came back and dropped pendent heads in the 
new ceiling. We left the uprights above the new ceiling. Fire inspector says we 
need to remove the uprights now. Is there a basis for removing these? I realize 
they are not required but are they permitted to remain?

John Irwin
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RE: Uprights in non combustible concealed space

2020-06-18 Thread Richard Carr via Sprinklerforum 
The AHJ should enforce the code not make it up, code does not prohibit the 
sprinklers to remain above the ceiling.

Richard M. Carr, SET
Project Manager/Design
Diboco Fire Sprinklers, Inc.
325 Jackson Loop Road
Flat Rock, NC  28731

rich...@diboco.com
828-696-3400
828-696-2288 Fax
828-708-9118 Mobile

[cid:image001.jpg@01D6457D.48BF8D70]

From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of John Irwin via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2020 2:21 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: John Irwin 
Subject: Uprights in non combustible concealed space

We installed temporary upright Protection in a partially occupied building 
during a major renovation. We then came back and dropped pendent heads in the 
new ceiling. We left the uprights above the new ceiling. Fire inspector says we 
need to remove the uprights now. Is there a basis for removing these? I realize 
they are not required but are they permitted to remain?

John Irwin
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RE: Uprights in non combustible concealed space

2020-06-18 Thread Cary Webber via Sprinklerforum 
On the downside, if all areas above the ceilings are not protected, it may give 
a false sense of security. On the upside, more sprinklers are better, and even 
if not required they can act as detectors in the space. Bottom line is that the 
AHJ has ultimate decision making authority.



Cary Webber CFPS Director, Technical Services
Reliable Automatic Sprinkler Co., Inc.
1470 Smith Grove Road, Liberty, SC  29657
Tel: 864-843-5161

[https://www.reliablesprinkler.com/sites/default/files/image001.png]

From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of John Irwin via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2020 2:21 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: John Irwin 
Subject: Uprights in non combustible concealed space

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click 
links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the 
content is safe.

We installed temporary upright Protection in a partially occupied building 
during a major renovation. We then came back and dropped pendent heads in the 
new ceiling. We left the uprights above the new ceiling. Fire inspector says we 
need to remove the uprights now. Is there a basis for removing these? I realize 
they are not required but are they permitted to remain?

John Irwin
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