Re: [sqlite] Is SQLite a DBMS?

[Stephen Hughes]

Surely this is all about context - SQLite is a DBMS and a RDBMS for
"computer" systems, not for card index or DNA, but so are Microsoft
Access, and Foxpro, and many others, each with their own strengths,
weaknesses, and varying ways of achieving management of the data.

-- Stephen Hughes
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Re: [sqlite] Is SQLite a DBMS?

[Stefan Keller]

Dear Keith

> I think your definition is a little off. (...)

Nice thoughts about the general term of a system - but unfortunately not
state-of-the-art. If you don't trust in G* pls. read the first chapters of
any university course or well-known or books about Database Systems, like
the book "Fundamentals..." from Elmasri

Yours, Stefan



2013/9/2 Keith Medcalf 

>
> > To me (as a university teacher :->), here exists no single common
> > definition what a (R)DBMS is! That comes close:
>
> > A database management system (DBMS) is software that controls the
> > storage, organization, and retrieval of data. A DBMS provides
> > various functions like data security, data integrity, data sharing,
> > data concurrence, data independence, data recovery etc. And an RDBMS
> > is a DBMS based on the relational model.
>
> I think your definition is a little off.  A DBMS (data base management
> system) is a "system" for the management of a collection (base) of data.
>  The terms themselves indicate no requirement for the "base" or the "data",
> nor in particular the type of "system" involved -- certainly no requirement
> for "software" running on a "computer".  DNA (and RNA) are DBMSes and are
> most assuredly Systems for the Management of a Base of Data.
>
> It is unfortunate that so many wear blinders so much of the time that they
> cannot comprehend the plain and clear meaning of words without falling
> afoul of their own prejudices.
>
>
>
>
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Re: [sqlite] Is SQLite a DBMS?

[Darren Duncan]

On 2013.09.02 6:06 AM, Simon Slavin wrote:

The 'R' stands for 'relational' -- the sort of things SQLite implements with 
FOREIGN KEYS.  A user model was assumed as part of Ted Codd's description of a 
'proper' DBMS but he didn't require it, he only said that if you had a user 
model, the DBMS should let you manipulate it using data-base commands (i.e. 
users are entries in a table) rather than using a different system.


In a general sense, the definition of a relational database is very simple, 
which is that the database presents all of its contents in terms of 
relation-typed variables, which SQL calls tables, and provides operators for 
working with them.


People often think that the ability to do joins or having foreign keys is what 
makes a database relational, but that isn't true.  Fundamentally "relationships" 
exist between all the individual attributes within a relation or columns within 
a table, where they are 1:1, eg that a business name is related to a business 
id, and such, and having multiple relations or tables lets you also have N:M 
relationships.


Most of the stuff people associate with relational databases are strictly 
optional, though some of that is best to have in practice.


-- Darren Duncan

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Re: [sqlite] Is SQLite a DBMS?

[Keith Medcalf]

> To me (as a university teacher :->), here exists no single common
> definition what a (R)DBMS is! That comes close:

> A database management system (DBMS) is software that controls the
> storage, organization, and retrieval of data. A DBMS provides 
> various functions like data security, data integrity, data sharing, 
> data concurrence, data independence, data recovery etc. And an RDBMS 
> is a DBMS based on the relational model.

I think your definition is a little off.  A DBMS (data base management system) 
is a "system" for the management of a collection (base) of data.  The terms 
themselves indicate no requirement for the "base" or the "data", nor in 
particular the type of "system" involved -- certainly no requirement for 
"software" running on a "computer".  DNA (and RNA) are DBMSes and are most 
assuredly Systems for the Management of a Base of Data.

It is unfortunate that so many wear blinders so much of the time that they 
cannot comprehend the plain and clear meaning of words without falling afoul of 
their own prejudices.




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Re: [sqlite] Is SQLite a DBMS?

[Stefan Keller]

I understand now.

To me (as a university teacher :->), here exists no single common
definition what a (R)DBMS is! That comes close:

A database management system (DBMS) is software that controls the storage,
organization, and retrieval of data. A DBMS provides various functions like
data security, data integrity, data sharing, data concurrence, data
independence, data recovery etc. And an RDBMS is a DBMS based on the
relational model.

To me, SQLite clearly is a RDBMS - with pros and cons like any product.
There is no one-size-fits-all database btw and that's why NoSQL databases
came up.

I see no evidence, why SQLite would'nt be a RDBMS, or if ot would be less
than a RDBMS like e.g. Oracle or PostgreSQL. If someone want's to argue
based on single properties, this could be of help:
http://database-management-systems.findthebest.com/compare/24-36-43-53/Access-vs-Oracle-vs-PostgreSQL-vs-SQLite



2013/9/1 kimtiago <kimti...@gmail.com>

> Hi people,
>
> I`m really sorry if you think i`m a noob. Maybe I am.
>
> I`m brazilian and my english its not very good.
>
> I googled SQLite and i read a lot of information before post in this forum.
>
> I`m writing by nabble yes.
>
> Now please tell me. Is this a forum only for experts? I just asked a
> question.
>
> Now let me explain why i have this doubt. I did a exam and I miss this
> question, so i`m seeking for information to counter attack my teacher and
> i`m confuse beacause the information i`m reading in the web says diferent
> things. Because thia i came here.
>
> In wikipedia says that he is DBMS, but in the official web site says
> "SQLite
> is an embedded SQL database engine."
>
> I prefer the official information. Now please, someone can explain me whats
> the difference?
>
> Thank you for undestand me
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://sqlite.1065341.n5.nabble.com/Is-SQLite-a-DBMS-tp70868p70874.html
> Sent from the SQLite mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [sqlite] Is SQLite a DBMS?

[Keith Medcalf]

I have seem filing systems run by Administrative Assistants which are RDBMS 
systems.  First they look up title of what you are looking for in the rolodex.  
This provides them with the particular cabinet, drawer, and file number where 
the data is stored.

R = Relational
D = Data
B = Base
M = Management
S = System

Come to think of it, the card catalog and shelves in a normal library (as in 
Dewey Decimal) comprise an RDBMS.

> -Original Message-
> From: sqlite-users-boun...@sqlite.org [mailto:sqlite-users-
> boun...@sqlite.org] On Behalf Of itli...@schrievkrom.de
> Sent: Monday, 2 September, 2013 06:18
> To: General Discussion of SQLite Database
> Subject: Re: [sqlite] Is SQLite a DBMS?
> 
> At university I learned, that a RDBMS also have these management
> functionality like "user access", "user roles", "user password", access
> restrictions ... and all that stuff.
> 
> In my view, SQLite is a SQL engine .. that's it, but actually who cares
> about that ?
> 
> Marten
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Re: [sqlite] Is SQLite a DBMS?

[Keith Medcalf]

And that is the problem with universities ... :)

> -Original Message-
> From: sqlite-users-boun...@sqlite.org [mailto:sqlite-users-
> boun...@sqlite.org] On Behalf Of itli...@schrievkrom.de
> Sent: Monday, 2 September, 2013 06:18
> To: General Discussion of SQLite Database
> Subject: Re: [sqlite] Is SQLite a DBMS?
> 
> At university I learned, that a RDBMS also have these management
> functionality like "user access", "user roles", "user password", access
> restrictions ... and all that stuff.
> 
> In my view, SQLite is a SQL engine .. that's it, but actually who cares
> about that ?
> 
> Marten
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Re: [sqlite] Is SQLite a DBMS?

[Keith Medcalf]

"Embeded SQL Engine" is to DBMS as Rose is to Flowering Plants ...

> -Original Message-
> From: sqlite-users-boun...@sqlite.org [mailto:sqlite-users-
> boun...@sqlite.org] On Behalf Of kimtiago
> Sent: Sunday, 1 September, 2013 06:37
> To: sqlite-users@sqlite.org
> Subject: Re: [sqlite] Is SQLite a DBMS?
> 
> Hi people,
> 
> I`m really sorry if you think i`m a noob. Maybe I am.
> 
> I`m brazilian and my english its not very good.
> 
> I googled SQLite and i read a lot of information before post in this
> forum.
> 
> I`m writing by nabble yes.
> 
> Now please tell me. Is this a forum only for experts? I just asked a
> question.
> 
> Now let me explain why i have this doubt. I did a exam and I miss this
> question, so i`m seeking for information to counter attack my teacher
> and
> i`m confuse beacause the information i`m reading in the web says
> diferent
> things. Because thia i came here.
> 
> In wikipedia says that he is DBMS, but in the official web site says
> "SQLite
> is an embedded SQL database engine."
> 
> I prefer the official information. Now please, someone can explain me
> whats
> the difference?
> 
> Thank you for undestand me
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: http://sqlite.1065341.n5.nabble.com/Is-
> SQLite-a-DBMS-tp70868p70874.html
> Sent from the SQLite mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [sqlite] Is SQLite a DBMS?

[Keith Medcalf]

dBase uses ISAM as its access method for data just like everything else.

There are modernized variants of dBase/Clipper.  Most of the modernization 
efforts had been to tack on a gooey and gratuitous windows misfeatures just for 
the sake of checkbox compliance.  Fortunately most of those hideous things 
died.  The original xBase/Clipper works just the same now as it did then.  
Plus, it runs so fast on modern hardware that it will blow your socks off and 
make you wonder why you go anywhere near this modern bloated ultraslow crapware 
at all.

There are still currently maintained xBase and Clipper environments.

> -Original Message-
> From: sqlite-users-boun...@sqlite.org [mailto:sqlite-users-
> boun...@sqlite.org] On Behalf Of Nataraj S Narayan
> Sent: Monday, 2 September, 2013 00:34
> To: General Discussion of SQLite Database
> Subject: Re: [sqlite] Is SQLite a DBMS?
> 
> Gee...
> I started out in late 80's as a Dbase III+ coder.
> Then it was the defacto DBMS on the PC.
> Wonder if it still relevant in any serious application in these days.
> 
> regards
> Nataraj
> 
> 
> On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 11:58 AM, Darren Duncan
> <dar...@darrenduncan.net>wrote:
> 
> > I don't think that being ACID and SQL compliant is the definition of a
> > DBMS, far from it.  While it is true that typically anything which is
> ACID
> > and SQL compliant is a DBMS, lots of things can be a DBMS without
> being
> > either ACID or SQL compliant.  See dBASE for example. -- Darren Duncan
> >
> >
> > On 2013.09.01 3:11 AM, Stefan Keller wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Wikipedia answers with yes and why (= because it's ACID and SQL
> compliant)
> >> within the first three sentences!
> >>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**SQLite<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQLit
> e>
> >>
> >> Yours, S.
> >>
> >>
> >> 2013/9/1 kimtiago <kimti...@gmail.com>
> >>
> >>  Hi,
> >>>
> >>> I need to know if SQLite is a DBMS and why.
> >>>
> >>> Please its urgent.
> >>>
> >>
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> **users<http://sqlite.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sqlite-users>
> >
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Re: [sqlite] Is SQLite a DBMS?

[Keith Medcalf]

My index card box (you know, them old fashioned rolodex things used by old 
farts) is a DBMS.  There is nothing magical about the term DBMS.  It means Data 
Base Management System.  So, you have to ask:

1.  Does it deal with data?
2.  Does it manage that data?
3.  Is it a system?

If the answers are YES then you have a DBMS.

It does not have to have anything to do with computers or other buzzwords 
whatsoever.

Many things are DBMS's.  Filing Cabinets beside the Admin Assistants desk are a 
DBMS.




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Re: [sqlite] Is SQLite a DBMS?

[Clemens Ladisch]

Simon Slavin wrote:
> On 2 Sep 2013, at 1:17pm, itli...@schrievkrom.de wrote:
>> At university I learned, that a RDBMS also have these management
>> functionality like "user access", "user roles", "user password",
>> access restrictions ... and all that stuff.
>
> Whoever told you that was wrong.  The user model is not required for
> a RDBMS.

It is required by the SQL standard, but does not make sense without
a client/server model.  Furthermore, embedded databases were often seen
as "not a real database" because they lacked ACID.

> The 'R' stands for 'relational' -- the sort of things SQLite
> implements with FOREIGN KEYS.

The "relational" actually comes from "relational algebra"; in the real
world, these relations are called "tables":



Regards,
Clemens
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Re: [sqlite] Is SQLite a DBMS?

[Simon Slavin]

On 2 Sep 2013, at 1:17pm, itli...@schrievkrom.de wrote:

> At university I learned, that a RDBMS also have these management 
> functionality like "user access", "user roles", "user password", access 
> restrictions ... and all that stuff.

Whoever told you that was wrong.  The user model is not required for a RDBMS.  
The 'R' stands for 'relational' -- the sort of things SQLite implements with 
FOREIGN KEYS.  A user model was assumed as part of Ted Codd's description of a 
'proper' DBMS but he didn't require it, he only said that if you had a user 
model, the DBMS should let you manipulate it using data-base commands (i.e. 
users are entries in a table) rather than using a different system.

> In my view, SQLite is a SQL engine .. that's it, but actually who cares about 
> that ?

Only a teacher in a classroom.

Simon.
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Re: [sqlite] Is SQLite a DBMS?

[Simon Slavin]

On 2 Sep 2013, at 1:07pm, Richard Hipp <d...@sqlite.org> wrote:

> On Sun, Sep 1, 2013 at 8:37 AM, kimtiago <kimti...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Now let me explain why i have this doubt. I did a exam and I miss this
>> question,
> 
> In a classroom setting, SQLite is whatever your instructor says it is.  So
> you should let this issue go.  Just remember that what you learn in school
> is not always true.

Says Doctor D. Richard Hipp, Ph.D., M.S., B.Sc..  So he knows a thing or two 
about school.


To Kim: this is how I knew you were in a class and not asking for your own 
interest.  Because only in a classroom would anyone ask whether SQLite was a 
DBMS.  If you look up 'DBMS' you will find that it means the same thing as 
'database engine'.  So the two definitions you found agree with one-another.

Simon.
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Re: [sqlite] Is SQLite a DBMS?

[Hick Gunter]

So by the simple act of implementing and registering an authorizer callback we 
have transformed an SQL Engine into an RDBMS. Neat ;)

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: itli...@schrievkrom.de [mailto:itli...@schrievkrom.de]
Gesendet: Montag, 02. September 2013 14:18
An: General Discussion of SQLite Database
Betreff: Re: [sqlite] Is SQLite a DBMS?

At university I learned, that a RDBMS also have these management functionality 
like "user access", "user roles", "user password", access restrictions ... and 
all that stuff.

In my view, SQLite is a SQL engine .. that's it, but actually who cares about 
that ?

Marten
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Re: [sqlite] Is SQLite a DBMS?

[itli...@schrievkrom.de]

At university I learned, that a RDBMS also have these management 
functionality like "user access", "user roles", "user password", access 
restrictions ... and all that stuff.


In my view, SQLite is a SQL engine .. that's it, but actually who cares 
about that ?


Marten
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Re: [sqlite] Is SQLite a DBMS?

[Richard Hipp]

On Sun, Sep 1, 2013 at 8:37 AM, kimtiago  wrote:

>
> Now let me explain why i have this doubt. I did a exam and I miss this
> question,
>

In a classroom setting, SQLite is whatever your instructor says it is.  So
you should let this issue go.  Just remember that what you learn in school
is not always true.

-- 
D. Richard Hipp
d...@sqlite.org
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Re: [sqlite] Is SQLite a DBMS?

[kimtiago]

Hi people,

I`m really sorry if you think i`m a noob. Maybe I am.

I`m brazilian and my english its not very good.

I googled SQLite and i read a lot of information before post in this forum.

I`m writing by nabble yes.

Now please tell me. Is this a forum only for experts? I just asked a
question.

Now let me explain why i have this doubt. I did a exam and I miss this
question, so i`m seeking for information to counter attack my teacher and
i`m confuse beacause the information i`m reading in the web says diferent
things. Because thia i came here.

In wikipedia says that he is DBMS, but in the official web site says "SQLite
is an embedded SQL database engine."

I prefer the official information. Now please, someone can explain me whats
the difference?

Thank you for undestand me



--
View this message in context: 
http://sqlite.1065341.n5.nabble.com/Is-SQLite-a-DBMS-tp70868p70874.html
Sent from the SQLite mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [sqlite] Is SQLite a DBMS?

[Nataraj S Narayan]

Gee...
I started out in late 80's as a Dbase III+ coder.
Then it was the defacto DBMS on the PC.
Wonder if it still relevant in any serious application in these days.

regards
Nataraj


On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 11:58 AM, Darren Duncan <dar...@darrenduncan.net>wrote:

> I don't think that being ACID and SQL compliant is the definition of a
> DBMS, far from it.  While it is true that typically anything which is ACID
> and SQL compliant is a DBMS, lots of things can be a DBMS without being
> either ACID or SQL compliant.  See dBASE for example. -- Darren Duncan
>
>
> On 2013.09.01 3:11 AM, Stefan Keller wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Wikipedia answers with yes and why (= because it's ACID and SQL compliant)
>> within the first three sentences!
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**SQLite<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQLite>
>>
>> Yours, S.
>>
>>
>> 2013/9/1 kimtiago <kimti...@gmail.com>
>>
>>  Hi,
>>>
>>> I need to know if SQLite is a DBMS and why.
>>>
>>> Please its urgent.
>>>
>>
> __**_
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> sqlite-users@sqlite.org
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>
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Re: [sqlite] Is SQLite a DBMS?

[Darren Duncan]

I don't think that being ACID and SQL compliant is the definition of a DBMS, far 
from it.  While it is true that typically anything which is ACID and SQL 
compliant is a DBMS, lots of things can be a DBMS without being either ACID or 
SQL compliant.  See dBASE for example. -- Darren Duncan


On 2013.09.01 3:11 AM, Stefan Keller wrote:

Hi,

Wikipedia answers with yes and why (= because it's ACID and SQL compliant)
within the first three sentences!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQLite

Yours, S.


2013/9/1 kimtiago <kimti...@gmail.com>


Hi,

I need to know if SQLite is a DBMS and why.

Please its urgent.


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Re: [sqlite] Is SQLite a DBMS?

[Kees Nuyt]

tOn Sun, 1 Sep 2013 12:34:02 +0200, Paolo Bolzoni
 wrote:

>
> Wait a second, this is a mailing list where you need
> to register to write. Isn't it?

Yes, but he appears to have posted from nabble.
I guess nabble has a subscription.

> It means the OP actually registered 

Probably not

> but he did not
> try to seek for wikipedia sqlite in google?

Yes, that probably means he is young and has not learned how to do
research yet.

> It is just me or it is quite weird?

Weirdness is common on the internet.

-- 
Groet, Cordialement, Pozdrawiam, Regards,

Kees Nuyt

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Re: [sqlite] Is SQLite a DBMS?

[Paolo Bolzoni]

Wait a second, this is a mailing list where you need
to register to write. Isn't it?

It means the OP actually registered but he did not
try to seek for wikipedia sqlite in google?

It is just me or it is quite weird?

On Sun, Sep 1, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Simon Slavin <slav...@bigfraud.org> wrote:
>
> On 1 Sep 2013, at 5:39am, kimtiago <kimti...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I need to know if SQLite is a DBMS and why.
>
> That's okay.  Just have your teacher post here and we'll tell them directly.
>
> Simon.
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Re: [sqlite] Is SQLite a DBMS?

[Simon Slavin]

On 1 Sep 2013, at 5:39am, kimtiago <kimti...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I need to know if SQLite is a DBMS and why.

That's okay.  Just have your teacher post here and we'll tell them directly.

Simon.
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Re: [sqlite] Is SQLite a DBMS?

[Stefan Keller]

Hi,

Wikipedia answers with yes and why (= because it's ACID and SQL compliant)
within the first three sentences!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQLite

Yours, S.


2013/9/1 kimtiago <kimti...@gmail.com>

> Hi,
>
> I need to know if SQLite is a DBMS and why.
>
> Please its urgent.
>
>
>
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> View this message in context:
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[sqlite] Is SQLite a DBMS?

[kimtiago]

Hi,

I need to know if SQLite is a DBMS and why.

Please its urgent.



--
View this message in context: 
http://sqlite.1065341.n5.nabble.com/Is-SQLite-a-DBMS-tp70868.html
Sent from the SQLite mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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