Re: [sqlite] Min() ; was: Re: if exist

[Tim Romano]

On 3/9/2010 2:13 PM, P Kishor wrote:

<>


about the following example I provided:
>>   select min(c) from T where 1=2
>>   group by foo
>>
>> returns no rows,  presumably because the null value was removed from the
>> aggregated set.
>>  

Foo was simply my shorthand for "another column, not column 'c' ", 
Sorry.  The slanty lines are just drawing attention to the group-by 
clause, which was the subject of my post.

Tim Romano



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Re: [sqlite] Min() ; was: Re: if exist

[Scott Hess]

On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 10:46 AM, Tim Romano  wrote:
> On 3/9/2010 10:56 AM, Scott Hess wrote:
>> On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 7:15 AM, Tim Romano  wrote:
>>> Of these three:
>>>
>>> select c from T where 1=2                 // returns 0 rows
>>> select min(c) from T where 1=2         // returns 1 row
>>> select min(88,99) from T where 1=2  // returns 0 rows
>>>
>>> the only case that "threw" me is the second one, where a row is returned
>>> despite a WHERE condition that should yield an empty set (or so I thought).
>>>
>> The first and last cases will run for each row in the WHERE clause.
>> The second case is aggregating over all c, and will always return one
>> row, even if the WHERE clause selects many rows, so it is consistent
>> for it to return one row if the WHERE clause selects for no rows.
>> It's as if you coded it like this:
>>
>>     SELECT min(SELECT c FROM t WHERE ...)
>>
>> meaning the minimum of that set of inputs, and if that set is empty,
>> there is no minimum, so you get a result of NULL, but not no result,
>> if you see what I mean.
>
> Thanks for the replies, Scott and Igor and Pavel and Puneet.  What I see
> is that an aggregate function needs to partner with the GROUP BY clause
> in order for nulls to be removed from the aggregated set.
>
>     select min(c) from T where 1=2
>
> returns 1 row that contains  despite the presence of the aggregate
> function
>
> and so
>
>    select min(c) is null from T where 1 =2
>
> returns true (1).  But
>
>      select min(c) from T where 1=2
>      /group by/ foo
>
> returns no rows,  presumably because the null value was removed from the
> aggregated set.

No, the null value is not removed, group-by groups the results, and
you have no results, so there are no groups, so min(c) never comes up
at all.  When you run min(c) across the entire table, the table _does_
exist, though it might be empty, so min(c) has to have a result, and
since there are no c, the result has to be NULL.  [BTW, if you had a
group-by, but no values are present for column c in that group of
rows, min(c) would also be NULL for that group.]

NULL means that there was a result, and the result was not a value, as
distinct from not having a result at all.

-scott
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Re: [sqlite] Min() ; was: Re: if exist

[P Kishor]

On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 12:46 PM, Tim Romano  wrote:
> On 3/9/2010 10:56 AM, Scott Hess wrote:
>> On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 7:15 AM, Tim Romano  wrote:
>>
>>> Of these three:
>>>
>>> select c from T where 1=2                 // returns 0 rows
>>> select min(c) from T where 1=2         // returns 1 row
>>> select min(88,99) from T where 1=2  // returns 0 rows
>>>
>>> the only case that "threw" me is the second one, where a row is returned
>>> despite a WHERE condition that should yield an empty set (or so I thought).
>>>
>> The first and last cases will run for each row in the WHERE clause.
>> The second case is aggregating over all c, and will always return one
>> row, even if the WHERE clause selects many rows, so it is consistent
>> for it to return one row if the WHERE clause selects for no rows.
>> It's as if you coded it like this:
>>
>>     SELECT min(SELECT c FROM t WHERE ...)
>>
>> meaning the minimum of that set of inputs, and if that set is empty,
>> there is no minimum, so you get a result of NULL, but not no result,
>> if you see what I mean.
>>
>
> Thanks for the replies, Scott and Igor and Pavel and Puneet.  What I see
> is that an aggregate function needs to partner with the GROUP BY clause
> in order for nulls to be removed from the aggregated set.
>
>     select min(c) from T where 1=2
>
> returns 1 row that contains  despite the presence of the aggregate
> function
>
> and so
>
>    select min(c) is null from T where 1 =2
>
> returns true (1).  But
>
>      select min(c) from T where 1=2
>      /group by/ foo
>
> returns no rows,  presumably because the null value was removed from the
> aggregated set.
>


I don't know what "/group by/ foo" means. Is that something you tried
and actually got no rows?

If you did the following

SELECT Min(c) AS foo FROM t WHERE 1=2 GROUP BY foo;

you will get an error: SQL error: aggregate functions are not allowed
in the GROUP BY clause

If you did the following

SELECT Min(c) AS c FROM t WHERE 1=2 GROUP BY foo;

You will get an error: SQL error: no such column: foo

Here is the rule -- if you are SELECT aggregate and non aggregate
columns, then you should use GROUP BY for the non-aggregate columns.
Assuming a table t(c, foo); the following is valid

SELECT Min(c) AS minc, foo FROM t WHERE 1=2 GROUP BY foo;

Min(), Max(), Count(), Sum(), etc. are aggregate functions, and act on
the returned result set. Abs(), Glob(), Hex(), etc. are non-aggregate
functions. Min(x,y,z...) behaves like a non-aggregate function.




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Re: [sqlite] Min() ; was: Re: if exist

[Igor Tandetnik]

Tim Romano  wrote:
> select min(c) from T where 1=2
> 
> returns 1 row that contains  despite the presence of the
> aggregate function

Not despite - _because_ of. If you didn't have the aggregate there, you'd get 
zero rows.

> and so
> 
>select min(c) is null from T where 1 =2
> 
> returns true (1).  But
> 
>  select min(c) from T where 1=2
>  /group by/ foo
> 
> returns no rows,  presumably because the null value was removed from
> the aggregated set.

No - because now there are no groups (as opposed to one group with zero rows as 
in the previous statement).


It is somewhat illogical - I can't think of any logical reason why an empty 
resultset (without group by) should be treated as one group with zero rows, and 
not as zero groups (and, thus, why the first statement should produce one row). 
But that's the way all SQL engines I know about have behaved for as long as I 
can remember.

Igor Tandetnik


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Re: [sqlite] Min() ; was: Re: if exist

[Tim Romano]

On 3/9/2010 10:56 AM, Scott Hess wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 7:15 AM, Tim Romano  wrote:
>
>> Of these three:
>>
>> select c from T where 1=2 // returns 0 rows
>> select min(c) from T where 1=2 // returns 1 row
>> select min(88,99) from T where 1=2  // returns 0 rows
>>
>> the only case that "threw" me is the second one, where a row is returned
>> despite a WHERE condition that should yield an empty set (or so I thought).
>>  
> The first and last cases will run for each row in the WHERE clause.
> The second case is aggregating over all c, and will always return one
> row, even if the WHERE clause selects many rows, so it is consistent
> for it to return one row if the WHERE clause selects for no rows.
> It's as if you coded it like this:
>
> SELECT min(SELECT c FROM t WHERE ...)
>
> meaning the minimum of that set of inputs, and if that set is empty,
> there is no minimum, so you get a result of NULL, but not no result,
> if you see what I mean.
>

Thanks for the replies, Scott and Igor and Pavel and Puneet.  What I see 
is that an aggregate function needs to partner with the GROUP BY clause 
in order for nulls to be removed from the aggregated set.

 select min(c) from T where 1=2

returns 1 row that contains  despite the presence of the aggregate 
function

and so

select min(c) is null from T where 1 =2

returns true (1).  But

  select min(c) from T where 1=2
  /group by/ foo

returns no rows,  presumably because the null value was removed from the 
aggregated set.

  Regards
Tim Romano



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Re: [sqlite] Min() ; was: Re: if exist

[Igor Tandetnik]

Tim Romano  wrote:
> Of these three:
> 
> select c from T where 1=2 // returns 0 rows
> select min(c) from T where 1=2 // returns 1 row
> select min(88,99) from T where 1=2  // returns 0 rows
> 
> 
> the only case that "threw" me is the second one, where a row is
> returned despite a WHERE condition that should yield an empty set (or
> so I thought).  

Aggregate functions work this way, yes.

> Regarding your point about the GROUP BY clause -- I'm not sure what
> you mean by "non-aggregate columns".

Expressions in the SELECT list that don't mention aggregate functions. As in

select x, min(y) from T;

>  Are you referring to a query
> where one wants to find the minimum value in a given column for the
> /entire/ table?   
> 
> select min(askingprice) from cars4sale
> group by rowid   //<= a group by is required here?

A GROUP BY doesn't make sense here. Without GROUP BY, the whole table (more 
precisely, all the rows matching the WHERE clause, if any) is in one group, and 
minimum is calculated across that group (if the group is empty, min() produces 
null). With GROUP BY clause, every individual row is in its own separate group, 
and minimum is calculated for each row, which is rather pointless.

Igor Tandetnik


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Re: [sqlite] Min() ; was: Re: if exist

[P Kishor]

On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Scott Hess  wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 7:15 AM, Tim Romano  wrote:
>> Of these three:
>>
>> select c from T where 1=2                 // returns 0 rows
>> select min(c) from T where 1=2         // returns 1 row
>> select min(88,99) from T where 1=2  // returns 0 rows
>>
>> the only case that "threw" me is the second one, where a row is returned
>> despite a WHERE condition that should yield an empty set (or so I thought).
>
> The first and last cases will run for each row in the WHERE clause.
> The second case is aggregating over all c, and will always return one
> row, even if the WHERE clause selects many rows, so it is consistent
> for it to return one row if the WHERE clause selects for no rows.
> It's as if you coded it like this:
>
>   SELECT min(SELECT c FROM t WHERE ...)
>
> meaning the minimum of that set of inputs, and if that set is empty,
> there is no minimum, so you get a result of NULL, but not no result,
> if you see what I mean.
>

That is a great explanation. Another way to think about it is to go
from right to left. In first and third cases, the WHERE clause is true
for 0 rows, and so SELECT is unable to return anything. In the second
case also the WHERE clause returns 0 rows, but there is no Min defined
for 0 rows, so a NULL is returned.

Now, you may ask, how is Min(88,89) different from Min(c), and that is
where the note from the docs I sent comes in. The Min(x,y..) form
makes min() perform like a simple function such as Sin() or Left(),
etc. But when given a single argument, Min() operates as an aggregate
function if given only a single argument. Consider

sqlite> SELECT Min(88,89) WHERE 1=2;
sqlite> SELECT Min(88) WHERE 1=2;
Min(88)
--

sqlite>


Note that Min(88) is returning a NULL row while Min(88,89) is not
returning anything.





> -scott
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Re: [sqlite] Min() ; was: Re: if exist

[Scott Hess]

On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 7:15 AM, Tim Romano  wrote:
> Of these three:
>
> select c from T where 1=2                 // returns 0 rows
> select min(c) from T where 1=2         // returns 1 row
> select min(88,99) from T where 1=2  // returns 0 rows
>
> the only case that "threw" me is the second one, where a row is returned
> despite a WHERE condition that should yield an empty set (or so I thought).

The first and last cases will run for each row in the WHERE clause.
The second case is aggregating over all c, and will always return one
row, even if the WHERE clause selects many rows, so it is consistent
for it to return one row if the WHERE clause selects for no rows.
It's as if you coded it like this:

   SELECT min(SELECT c FROM t WHERE ...)

meaning the minimum of that set of inputs, and if that set is empty,
there is no minimum, so you get a result of NULL, but not no result,
if you see what I mean.

-scott
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Re: [sqlite] Min() ; was: Re: if exist

[Pavel Ivanov]

> sqlite> SELECT Min(m) AS m FROM t WHERE 1=2;
> m
> --
> sqlite> SELECT Min(m) FROM t;
> Min(m)
> --
> 88

Puneet, note that you probably missed one empty row of terminal output
in the first query above and when there's no row returned sqlite3
command line utility doesn't print any headers information. Try this
query to check things out: SELECT COUNT(*) FROM (SELECT Min(m) AS m
FROM t WHERE 1=2).


Pavel

On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 8:04 AM, P Kishor  wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 6:18 AM, Tim Romano  wrote:
>> Wrapping a column in the min() function causes a query that returns no
>> rows to return a  row?
>>
>> select c from T where 1=2                 // returns 0 rows
>
> The above is correct SQL, and the answer is correct.
>
>> select min(c) from T where 1=2         // returns 1 row
>
> You should be getting 0 rows; I do. What version of sqlite are you running?
>
> SQLite version 3.6.19
> Enter ".help" for instructions
> Enter SQL statements terminated with a ";"
> sqlite> CREATE TABLE t (m);
> sqlite> INSERT INTO t VALUES (88);
> sqlite> INSERT INTO t VALUES (89);
> sqlite> SELECT * FROM t;
> m
> --
> 88
> 89
> sqlite> SELECT Min(m) AS m FROM t WHERE 1=2;
> m
> --
> sqlite> SELECT Min(m) FROM t;
> Min(m)
> --
> 88
>
>
>> select min(88,99) from T where 1=2  // returns 0 rows
>
> The above is correct SQL and the answer is correct. Per the docs,
> "Note that min() is a simple function when it has 2 or more arguments
> but operates as an aggregate function if given only a single
> argument."
>
> Finally, note that when returning both aggregate and non-aggregate
> columns, you should use the GROUP BY clause. I believe that SQLite
> will return rows even without GROUP BY, but the answer may be
> undependable.
>
>>
>> Tim Romano
>>
> ..
>
>
> --
> Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org
> Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
> Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
> Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
> Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu
> ---
> Assertions are politics; backing up assertions with evidence is science
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Re: [sqlite] Min() ; was: Re: if exist

[P Kishor]

On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 7:34 AM, Pavel Ivanov  wrote:
>> sqlite> SELECT Min(m) AS m FROM t WHERE 1=2;
>> m
>> --
>> sqlite> SELECT Min(m) FROM t;
>> Min(m)
>> --
>> 88
>
> Puneet, note that you probably missed one empty row of terminal output
> in the first query above and when there's no row returned sqlite3
> command line utility doesn't print any headers information. Try this
> query to check things out: SELECT COUNT(*) FROM (SELECT Min(m) AS m
> FROM t WHERE 1=2).
>
>


Yes, you are absolutely correct.


> Pavel
>
> On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 8:04 AM, P Kishor  wrote:
>> On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 6:18 AM, Tim Romano  wrote:
>>> Wrapping a column in the min() function causes a query that returns no
>>> rows to return a  row?
>>>
>>> select c from T where 1=2                 // returns 0 rows
>>
>> The above is correct SQL, and the answer is correct.
>>
>>> select min(c) from T where 1=2         // returns 1 row
>>
>> You should be getting 0 rows; I do. What version of sqlite are you running?
>>
>> SQLite version 3.6.19
>> Enter ".help" for instructions
>> Enter SQL statements terminated with a ";"
>> sqlite> CREATE TABLE t (m);
>> sqlite> INSERT INTO t VALUES (88);
>> sqlite> INSERT INTO t VALUES (89);
>> sqlite> SELECT * FROM t;
>> m
>> --
>> 88
>> 89
>> sqlite> SELECT Min(m) AS m FROM t WHERE 1=2;
>> m
>> --
>> sqlite> SELECT Min(m) FROM t;
>> Min(m)
>> --
>> 88
>>
>>
>>> select min(88,99) from T where 1=2  // returns 0 rows
>>
>> The above is correct SQL and the answer is correct. Per the docs,
>> "Note that min() is a simple function when it has 2 or more arguments
>> but operates as an aggregate function if given only a single
>> argument."
>>
>> Finally, note that when returning both aggregate and non-aggregate
>> columns, you should use the GROUP BY clause. I believe that SQLite
>> will return rows even without GROUP BY, but the answer may be
>> undependable.
>>
>>>
>>> Tim Romano
>>>
>> ..
>>
>>


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Re: [sqlite] Min() ; was: Re: if exist

[P Kishor]

On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 6:18 AM, Tim Romano  wrote:
> Wrapping a column in the min() function causes a query that returns no
> rows to return a  row?
>
> select c from T where 1=2                 // returns 0 rows

The above is correct SQL, and the answer is correct.

> select min(c) from T where 1=2         // returns 1 row

You should be getting 0 rows; I do. What version of sqlite are you running?

SQLite version 3.6.19
Enter ".help" for instructions
Enter SQL statements terminated with a ";"
sqlite> CREATE TABLE t (m);
sqlite> INSERT INTO t VALUES (88);
sqlite> INSERT INTO t VALUES (89);
sqlite> SELECT * FROM t;
m
--
88
89
sqlite> SELECT Min(m) AS m FROM t WHERE 1=2;
m
--
sqlite> SELECT Min(m) FROM t;
Min(m)
--
88


> select min(88,99) from T where 1=2  // returns 0 rows

The above is correct SQL and the answer is correct. Per the docs,
"Note that min() is a simple function when it has 2 or more arguments
but operates as an aggregate function if given only a single
argument."

Finally, note that when returning both aggregate and non-aggregate
columns, you should use the GROUP BY clause. I believe that SQLite
will return rows even without GROUP BY, but the answer may be
undependable.

>
> Tim Romano
>
..


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[sqlite] Min() ; was: Re: if exist

[Tim Romano]

Wrapping a column in the min() function causes a query that returns no 
rows to return a  row?

select c from T where 1=2 // returns 0 rows
select min(c) from T where 1=2 // returns 1 row
select min(88,99) from T where 1=2  // returns 0 rows

Tim Romano

On 3/9/2010 4:15 AM, Martin.Engelschalk wrote:
> Hi,
>
> try this:
>
> select coalesce(min(length), 0) from t where id = ?
>
> Martin
>
> Andrea Galeazzi schrieb:
>
>> Hi All,
>> I've got a table T made up of only two fields: INT id (PRIMARY KEY) and
>> INT length.
>> I need a statement in order to yield 0 when the key doesn't exist. At
>> this moment the query is too simple:
>> SELECT length FROM T WHERE id = ?
>> Any idea about it?
>>  

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Re: [sqlite] Min() ; was: Re: if exist

[Pavel Ivanov]

> Wrapping a column in the min() function causes a query that returns no
> rows to return a  row?

Yes, it's SQL standard for aggregate functions (min, max, avg and
count): without GROUP BY clause they always return one row.


Pavel

On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 7:18 AM, Tim Romano  wrote:
> Wrapping a column in the min() function causes a query that returns no
> rows to return a  row?
>
> select c from T where 1=2                 // returns 0 rows
> select min(c) from T where 1=2         // returns 1 row
> select min(88,99) from T where 1=2  // returns 0 rows
>
> Tim Romano
>
> On 3/9/2010 4:15 AM, Martin.Engelschalk wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> try this:
>>
>> select coalesce(min(length), 0) from t where id = ?
>>
>> Martin
>>
>> Andrea Galeazzi schrieb:
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>> I've got a table T made up of only two fields: INT id (PRIMARY KEY) and
>>> INT length.
>>> I need a statement in order to yield 0 when the key doesn't exist. At
>>> this moment the query is too simple:
>>> SELECT length FROM T WHERE id = ?
>>> Any idea about it?
>>>
>
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Re: [sqlite] Min() ; was: Re: if exist

[Tim Romano]

On 3/9/2010 8:04 AM, P Kishor wrote:
>
>> select min(88,99) from T where 1=2  // returns 0 rows
>>  
> The above is correct SQL and the answer is correct. Per the docs,
> "Note that min() is a simple function when it has 2 or more arguments
> but operates as an aggregate function if given only a single
> argument."
>
> Finally, note that when returning both aggregate and non-aggregate
> columns, you should use the GROUP BY clause. I believe that SQLite
> will return rows even without GROUP BY, but the answer may be
> undependable.
>

Of these three:

select c from T where 1=2 // returns 0 rows
select min(c) from T where 1=2 // returns 1 row
select min(88,99) from T where 1=2  // returns 0 rows


the only case that "threw" me is the second one, where a row is returned 
despite a WHERE condition that should yield an empty set (or so I thought).

Regarding your point about the GROUP BY clause -- I'm not sure what you mean by 
"non-aggregate columns".  Are you referring to a query where one wants to find 
the minimum value in a given column for the /entire/ table?

 select min(askingprice) from cars4sale
 group by rowid   //<= a group by is required here?


Regards
Tim Romano



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