Re: [sqlite] Suggestion for project: Chat

[Alan Chandler]

On 24/08/10 17:21, Artur Reilin wrote:
> I thinking about coding a chat with sqlite. You know the most hosts not
> allow you to use chats or something that way, because they write and read
> to often data from mysql database.
>
> So my thought is to make a chat which use forums software mysql tables for
> user data, but writes and read chat text from sqlite database. As the chat
> content get pruned after some time, the database can't grow big. So the
> insert and selects should be fast.
>


I have already made a chat that uses SQLite.  Its available to clone 
from my git repository (licenced under the GPL).

See http://www.chandlerfamily.org.uk/content/software

To clone the repository you need

git clone git://www.chandlerfamily.org.uk/mbchat.git

This originally started life as an mysql database version, but using it 
on the web site I wrote it for (http://www.melindasbackups.com) it ran 
out of steam when 20 people were using it (as it had to poll the 
database every 2 seconds per user to get a sensible performance).

I went through some intermediate stage of using named pipes and sqlite 
before landing on the current version that forks a chat server for the 
time that anyone is in chat.  I have also added optional security 
controls so that its possible to encrypt chat messages.

It has multiple rooms which are added via adding them to the database, 
and various permissions and colours for users. (users see some rooms as 
public, others are moderated, and others they see only when they are 
members of a specific group - we used them as committee rooms).

There is a useable demo here

http://chat.hartley-consultants.com/

which is stand alone.  The code can also link to an SMF forum and derive 
username from the login identity of the user on the forum.



-- 
Alan Chandler
http://www.chandlerfamily.org.uk

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Re: [sqlite] Suggestion for project: Chat

[Artur Reilin]

> On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 10:23:55PM +0530, Roger Binns wrote:
>> On 08/24/2010 09:51 PM, Artur Reilin wrote:
>> > I thinking about coding a chat with sqlite.
>>
>> The hard part of implementing chat is not storing the messages, but
>> rather dealing with all the clients at the same time especially with
>> potentially hostile networking (eg reading data slower than you send
>> it).
>>
>> If you want to write one yourself I suggest looking into the Erlang
>> programming language.
>>
>> Instead of reinventing the wheel, I suggest you use the open XMPP chat
>> protocol and open source XMPP servers.  In addition to using any XMPP
>> client, you can also use a web based client.
>
> +1.
>
> Moreover, because often you'll want to log chats hosted on services that
> you do not control, the simplest, most popular, and most interoperable
> (though not most reliable) way to log is to do it via "bots".  "Bots"
> are automated clients.
>
> The most reliable way to log chats is by modifying the service
> implementation or by co-locating logger bots with the service, but this
> only works when you own the service (or otherwise can get the owners to
> log this way).
>
> Don't reinvent the wheel, just find a suitable open source bot and
> modify it to suit your needs.  You might even find some existing ones.
> For example, the "Sqlite Users" wiki page [0] lists one exact match,
> though it appears to be dead.
>
> Just search for "chat bot logger sqlite", "xmpp bot logger sqlite",
> etcetera, and you'll find plenty.  I count at least a handful just on
> the first page of results for each of those searches.
>
> Nico
>
> [0] http://www.sqlite.org/cvstrac/wiki?p=SqliteUsers
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>

The thing is, I don't want to log the chat text. It should just get
removed after 30 messages or so. It should just save the chat messages for
some time. I currently using a Ajax based chat in my phpBB3 installation.
Just thought it would reduce the server <-> mysql server data traffic.

I have paid hosting, so I don't think that I'll get many problems. But the
thing is, that I see sometimes that the chat's are more html based and
often really slow. So slow, that even sqlite could take that with 20 users
at once or even more.

with best wishes

Artur Reilin
sqlite.yuedream.de
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Re: [sqlite] Suggestion for project: Chat

[Nicolas Williams]

On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 10:23:55PM +0530, Roger Binns wrote:
> On 08/24/2010 09:51 PM, Artur Reilin wrote:
> > I thinking about coding a chat with sqlite. 
> 
> The hard part of implementing chat is not storing the messages, but
> rather dealing with all the clients at the same time especially with
> potentially hostile networking (eg reading data slower than you send it).
> 
> If you want to write one yourself I suggest looking into the Erlang
> programming language.
> 
> Instead of reinventing the wheel, I suggest you use the open XMPP chat
> protocol and open source XMPP servers.  In addition to using any XMPP
> client, you can also use a web based client.

+1.

Moreover, because often you'll want to log chats hosted on services that
you do not control, the simplest, most popular, and most interoperable
(though not most reliable) way to log is to do it via "bots".  "Bots"
are automated clients.

The most reliable way to log chats is by modifying the service
implementation or by co-locating logger bots with the service, but this
only works when you own the service (or otherwise can get the owners to
log this way).

Don't reinvent the wheel, just find a suitable open source bot and
modify it to suit your needs.  You might even find some existing ones.
For example, the "Sqlite Users" wiki page [0] lists one exact match,
though it appears to be dead.

Just search for "chat bot logger sqlite", "xmpp bot logger sqlite",
etcetera, and you'll find plenty.  I count at least a handful just on
the first page of results for each of those searches.

Nico

[0] http://www.sqlite.org/cvstrac/wiki?p=SqliteUsers
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Re: [sqlite] Suggestion for project: Chat

[Richard Hipp]

FWIW:  The SQLite Core developers all keep in touch using a private,
proprietary chatroom that is backed by an SQLite database.  The chat server
is written in 152 lines of Tcl code and the client (involving a GUI and
therefore being more complex) is 1068 lines of Tcl/Tk.  We have other means
of communication available as a backup (Gmail chat, AOL chat, Skype) but our
private chatroom works so well, that the backups are seldom used.

On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Artur Reilin  wrote:

> I thinking about coding a chat with sqlite. You know the most hosts not
> allow you to use chats or something that way, because they write and read
> to often data from mysql database.
>
> So my thought is to make a chat which use forums software mysql tables for
> user data, but writes and read chat text from sqlite database. As the chat
> content get pruned after some time, the database can't grow big. So the
> insert and selects should be fast.
>
> But would that work? What do you think?
>
> I'll like to write that for phpBB3 and wbb2 to replace the current chat
> from my forum and also replacings wbb2 stinky chat system xD.
>
> With best wishes
>
> Artur Reilin
> sqlite.yuedream.de
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>



-- 
D. Richard Hipp
d...@sqlite.org
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Re: [sqlite] Suggestion for project: Chat

[Roger Binns]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 08/24/2010 09:51 PM, Artur Reilin wrote:
> I thinking about coding a chat with sqlite. 

The hard part of implementing chat is not storing the messages, but
rather dealing with all the clients at the same time especially with
potentially hostile networking (eg reading data slower than you send it).

If you want to write one yourself I suggest looking into the Erlang
programming language.

Instead of reinventing the wheel, I suggest you use the open XMPP chat
protocol and open source XMPP servers.  In addition to using any XMPP
client, you can also use a web based client.

Roger
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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[sqlite] Suggestion for project: Chat

[Artur Reilin]

I thinking about coding a chat with sqlite. You know the most hosts not
allow you to use chats or something that way, because they write and read
to often data from mysql database.

So my thought is to make a chat which use forums software mysql tables for
user data, but writes and read chat text from sqlite database. As the chat
content get pruned after some time, the database can't grow big. So the
insert and selects should be fast.

But would that work? What do you think?

I'll like to write that for phpBB3 and wbb2 to replace the current chat
from my forum and also replacings wbb2 stinky chat system xD.

With best wishes

Artur Reilin
sqlite.yuedream.de
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