Re: Dive computer tool for blind and visually impaired divers

[Simon Eigeldinger]

Hi Robert,

I guess that guy was me. *smile*
well basically i guess i just need a little tool that exports the dive 
profile to csv.
will try tomorrow to get a dive computer from a friend and export that 
dive profile from tomorrow with subsurface.

the windows i need might be enough accessible.

i am using windows 10 home.
i guess just a csv file might be enough.

Greetings and have a nice holiday.

Simon



Am 20.08.2018 um 14:52 schrieb Robert C. Helling:

Simon,


Am 18.08.2018 um 15:58 schrieb Simon Eigeldinger :

I am Simon and I am a blind diver.


A couple of months ago, we were contacted by another blind diver who was 
interested to make the subsurface user interface more usable with 
text-to-speech. That never led anywhere but only due to lack of developer time. 
But this is still on my todo list. Maybe this would also be interesting to you. 
My problem to start with was that due to training I was pretty much lost with 
the text to speech interface even with staring at the screen. I would need to 
collaborate with experience with those tools.

For what you envisioned: could you create a mock up of the file format that 
would suite your needs. It shouldn’t be too difficult to hack a command line 
version for you. What operating system are you on?

Best
Robert

PS: currently on vacation and thus writing on the phone only.



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Re: Dive computer tool for blind and visually impaired divers

[Simon Eigeldinger]

Hi Miika,

Unfortunately not under windows.
though thanks for the info.
might set up a small linux box maybe.

Greetings,
Simon



Am 18.08.2018 um 18:01 schrieb Miika Turkia:

you could try https://kristaps.bsd.lv/divecmd/

I have not personally used it, but it should be able to export directly to
csv and is a command line tool (IIRC it was forked from dctool at some
point)

miika


On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 10:00 AM, Simon Eigeldinger <
simon.eigeldin...@vol.at> wrote:


Hi Willem,

thanks for the info.
well i need just the dc data anyway.
so maybe just importing the dc data, exporting all things and then use the
csv data might be enough.
then not saving the logbook xml file.

xml isn't nice to be used mainly as info for blind people so xml isn't the
way i think i might use my data.
xml is human readable but not convenient. *smile*

I guess dctool also might to be able to download the dives but not be able
to convert that to csv.

Greetings,
Simon

Am 18.08.2018 um 16:39 schrieb Willem Ferguson:


On 18/08/2018 15:58, Simon Eigeldinger wrote:


Hi all,

I am Simon and I am a blind diver.
I have now around 140 dives under my belt and have no dive computer at
the moment which is a problem.
Mainly the problem is that i can't read the display but thats a
different story.
I want/should take a dive computer with me to act as a black box if
something happens.
And also as a logging tool later when i am out and i want to know
something.
Is there a small tool or could someone write one to get the data off of
the dive computer and then write it in a text file or csv file to make all
the info on the dive accessible for me.
I don't know if dive computers also log the dive profile that way that
it saves each sensor reading in a internal table with time, depth, water
temperature and other info and if that also could be exported.
the problem is i can't use most of the diving software because of their
graphical nature and the problem how the GUI has been made.

I know there are not many blind divers around but such a tool would be
pretty handy.
my main OS is Windows but a command line tool would be the most portable
to be multiplatform.

i am also looking for a cheap dive computer for that because i guess the
more expensive ones have features i never use. *smile*.
The only gases i currently use is normal air and nitrox.

would be great if someone could help out or knows a tool that could do
that.

Greetings and thanks,
Simon

---



Simon,

Firstly, as far as obtaining text data from the dive log is concerned,
here are a few (maybe limited) options.

As you are probably aware, Subsurface can export dive logs in csv format.
Go File -> export -> CSV. I think, from a blind diver's perspective there
are two limitations.

1) The CSV is written as an export format. This means that the dive log
could probably not be kept in CSV format. This would therefore currently
require a CSV export every time you wish to view new dives that have been
added to the dive log.

2) The dive-level data (e.g. dive site name, name of buddy, etc) need to
be exported separately from the profile data (i.e. the time-depth values
within a single dive). There are therefore two CSV export options: export
the dive-level data and export the profile-level data. For a coherent view
of a dive, we mostly use the combination of both types of data. I am
reasonable sure that it would be reasonably simple to add a Subsurface
command-line option that exports the dive log to CSV so that the dive log
export could be done by running Subsurface in command-line mode.

Keep in mind that the dive log is in XML format which is also text-based
and human-readable, as is CSV. The XML version has each dive as a complete
item, including dive site name, buddy info, etc. But this would mean being
able to use the XML tags to find specific information items. The advantage
of this is that no export to CSV would be required.

Secondly, as far as a dive computer is concerned, I have never come
across one meant for or suitable for divers. The best that I can think of
is to use a dive computer with a USB cable interface. Most USB dive
computers I have used automatically go into a PC or download mode when the
dive computer is connected to a laptop using the USB cable. For my Mares
computer it was not even necessary to switch on the dive computer: it
sensed the power on the USB cable and switched into download mode
automatically. This would simplify the button presses on the dive computer
when a blind person wishes to download. But the appropriate mouse clicks
using Subsurface would also be required, and I do not know how
sophisticated your accessibility software is at reading the download panel
in Subsurface.

I hope this gives you something to start with.
Kind regards,
willem










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Re: Dive computer tool for blind and visually impaired divers

[Robert C. Helling]

Simon,

> Am 18.08.2018 um 15:58 schrieb Simon Eigeldinger :
> 
> I am Simon and I am a blind diver.

A couple of months ago, we were contacted by another blind diver who was 
interested to make the subsurface user interface more usable with 
text-to-speech. That never led anywhere but only due to lack of developer time. 
But this is still on my todo list. Maybe this would also be interesting to you. 
My problem to start with was that due to training I was pretty much lost with 
the text to speech interface even with staring at the screen. I would need to 
collaborate with experience with those tools. 

For what you envisioned: could you create a mock up of the file format that 
would suite your needs. It shouldn’t be too difficult to hack a command line 
version for you. What operating system are you on?

Best
Robert 

PS: currently on vacation and thus writing on the phone only. 
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Re: Dive computer tool for blind and visually impaired divers

[Miika Turkia]

you could try https://kristaps.bsd.lv/divecmd/

I have not personally used it, but it should be able to export directly to
csv and is a command line tool (IIRC it was forked from dctool at some
point)

miika


On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 10:00 AM, Simon Eigeldinger <
simon.eigeldin...@vol.at> wrote:

> Hi Willem,
>
> thanks for the info.
> well i need just the dc data anyway.
> so maybe just importing the dc data, exporting all things and then use the
> csv data might be enough.
> then not saving the logbook xml file.
>
> xml isn't nice to be used mainly as info for blind people so xml isn't the
> way i think i might use my data.
> xml is human readable but not convenient. *smile*
>
> I guess dctool also might to be able to download the dives but not be able
> to convert that to csv.
>
> Greetings,
> Simon
>
> Am 18.08.2018 um 16:39 schrieb Willem Ferguson:
>
>> On 18/08/2018 15:58, Simon Eigeldinger wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I am Simon and I am a blind diver.
>>> I have now around 140 dives under my belt and have no dive computer at
>>> the moment which is a problem.
>>> Mainly the problem is that i can't read the display but thats a
>>> different story.
>>> I want/should take a dive computer with me to act as a black box if
>>> something happens.
>>> And also as a logging tool later when i am out and i want to know
>>> something.
>>> Is there a small tool or could someone write one to get the data off of
>>> the dive computer and then write it in a text file or csv file to make all
>>> the info on the dive accessible for me.
>>> I don't know if dive computers also log the dive profile that way that
>>> it saves each sensor reading in a internal table with time, depth, water
>>> temperature and other info and if that also could be exported.
>>> the problem is i can't use most of the diving software because of their
>>> graphical nature and the problem how the GUI has been made.
>>>
>>> I know there are not many blind divers around but such a tool would be
>>> pretty handy.
>>> my main OS is Windows but a command line tool would be the most portable
>>> to be multiplatform.
>>>
>>> i am also looking for a cheap dive computer for that because i guess the
>>> more expensive ones have features i never use. *smile*.
>>> The only gases i currently use is normal air and nitrox.
>>>
>>> would be great if someone could help out or knows a tool that could do
>>> that.
>>>
>>> Greetings and thanks,
>>> Simon
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>
>> Simon,
>>
>> Firstly, as far as obtaining text data from the dive log is concerned,
>> here are a few (maybe limited) options.
>>
>> As you are probably aware, Subsurface can export dive logs in csv format.
>> Go File -> export -> CSV. I think, from a blind diver's perspective there
>> are two limitations.
>>
>> 1) The CSV is written as an export format. This means that the dive log
>> could probably not be kept in CSV format. This would therefore currently
>> require a CSV export every time you wish to view new dives that have been
>> added to the dive log.
>>
>> 2) The dive-level data (e.g. dive site name, name of buddy, etc) need to
>> be exported separately from the profile data (i.e. the time-depth values
>> within a single dive). There are therefore two CSV export options: export
>> the dive-level data and export the profile-level data. For a coherent view
>> of a dive, we mostly use the combination of both types of data. I am
>> reasonable sure that it would be reasonably simple to add a Subsurface
>> command-line option that exports the dive log to CSV so that the dive log
>> export could be done by running Subsurface in command-line mode.
>>
>> Keep in mind that the dive log is in XML format which is also text-based
>> and human-readable, as is CSV. The XML version has each dive as a complete
>> item, including dive site name, buddy info, etc. But this would mean being
>> able to use the XML tags to find specific information items. The advantage
>> of this is that no export to CSV would be required.
>>
>> Secondly, as far as a dive computer is concerned, I have never come
>> across one meant for or suitable for divers. The best that I can think of
>> is to use a dive computer with a USB cable interface. Most USB dive
>> computers I have used automatically go into a PC or download mode when the
>> dive computer is connected to a laptop using the USB cable. For my Mares
>> computer it was not even necessary to switch on the dive computer: it
>> sensed the power on the USB cable and switched into download mode
>> automatically. This would simplify the button presses on the dive computer
>> when a blind person wishes to download. But the appropriate mouse clicks
>> using Subsurface would also be required, and I do not know how
>> sophisticated your accessibility software is at reading the download panel
>> in Subsurface.
>>
>> I hope this gives you something to start with.
>> Kind regards,
>> willem
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: Dive computer tool for blind and visually impaired divers

[Simon Eigeldinger]

Hi Willem,

thanks for the info.
well i need just the dc data anyway.
so maybe just importing the dc data, exporting all things and then use 
the csv data might be enough.

then not saving the logbook xml file.

xml isn't nice to be used mainly as info for blind people so xml isn't 
the way i think i might use my data.

xml is human readable but not convenient. *smile*

I guess dctool also might to be able to download the dives but not be 
able to convert that to csv.


Greetings,
Simon
Am 18.08.2018 um 16:39 schrieb Willem Ferguson:

On 18/08/2018 15:58, Simon Eigeldinger wrote:

Hi all,

I am Simon and I am a blind diver.
I have now around 140 dives under my belt and have no dive computer at 
the moment which is a problem.
Mainly the problem is that i can't read the display but thats a 
different story.
I want/should take a dive computer with me to act as a black box if 
something happens.
And also as a logging tool later when i am out and i want to know 
something.
Is there a small tool or could someone write one to get the data off 
of the dive computer and then write it in a text file or csv file to 
make all the info on the dive accessible for me.
I don't know if dive computers also log the dive profile that way that 
it saves each sensor reading in a internal table with time, depth, 
water temperature and other info and if that also could be exported.
the problem is i can't use most of the diving software because of 
their graphical nature and the problem how the GUI has been made.


I know there are not many blind divers around but such a tool would be 
pretty handy.
my main OS is Windows but a command line tool would be the most 
portable to be multiplatform.


i am also looking for a cheap dive computer for that because i guess 
the more expensive ones have features i never use. *smile*.

The only gases i currently use is normal air and nitrox.

would be great if someone could help out or knows a tool that could do 
that.


Greetings and thanks,
Simon

--- 


Simon,

Firstly, as far as obtaining text data from the dive log is concerned, 
here are a few (maybe limited) options.


As you are probably aware, Subsurface can export dive logs in csv 
format. Go File -> export -> CSV. I think, from a blind diver's 
perspective there are two limitations.


1) The CSV is written as an export format. This means that the dive log 
could probably not be kept in CSV format. This would therefore currently 
require a CSV export every time you wish to view new dives that have 
been added to the dive log.


2) The dive-level data (e.g. dive site name, name of buddy, etc) need to 
be exported separately from the profile data (i.e. the time-depth values 
within a single dive). There are therefore two CSV export options: 
export the dive-level data and export the profile-level data. For a 
coherent view of a dive, we mostly use the combination of both types of 
data. I am reasonable sure that it would be reasonably simple to add a 
Subsurface command-line option that exports the dive log to CSV so that 
the dive log export could be done by running Subsurface in command-line 
mode.


Keep in mind that the dive log is in XML format which is also text-based 
and human-readable, as is CSV. The XML version has each dive as a 
complete item, including dive site name, buddy info, etc. But this would 
mean being able to use the XML tags to find specific information items. 
The advantage of this is that no export to CSV would be required.


Secondly, as far as a dive computer is concerned, I have never come 
across one meant for or suitable for divers. The best that I can think 
of is to use a dive computer with a USB cable interface. Most USB dive 
computers I have used automatically go into a PC or download mode when 
the dive computer is connected to a laptop using the USB cable. For my 
Mares computer it was not even necessary to switch on the dive computer: 
it sensed the power on the USB cable and switched into download mode 
automatically. This would simplify the button presses on the dive 
computer when a blind person wishes to download. But the appropriate 
mouse clicks using Subsurface would also be required, and I do not know 
how sophisticated your accessibility software is at reading the download 
panel in Subsurface.


I hope this gives you something to start with.
Kind regards,
willem










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Re: Dive computer tool for blind and visually impaired divers

[Willem Ferguson]

On 18/08/2018 15:58, Simon Eigeldinger wrote:

Hi all,

I am Simon and I am a blind diver.
I have now around 140 dives under my belt and have no dive computer at 
the moment which is a problem.
Mainly the problem is that i can't read the display but thats a 
different story.
I want/should take a dive computer with me to act as a black box if 
something happens.
And also as a logging tool later when i am out and i want to know 
something.
Is there a small tool or could someone write one to get the data off 
of the dive computer and then write it in a text file or csv file to 
make all the info on the dive accessible for me.
I don't know if dive computers also log the dive profile that way that 
it saves each sensor reading in a internal table with time, depth, 
water temperature and other info and if that also could be exported.
the problem is i can't use most of the diving software because of 
their graphical nature and the problem how the GUI has been made.


I know there are not many blind divers around but such a tool would be 
pretty handy.
my main OS is Windows but a command line tool would be the most 
portable to be multiplatform.


i am also looking for a cheap dive computer for that because i guess 
the more expensive ones have features i never use. *smile*.

The only gases i currently use is normal air and nitrox.

would be great if someone could help out or knows a tool that could do 
that.


Greetings and thanks,
Simon

--- 


Simon,

Firstly, as far as obtaining text data from the dive log is concerned, 
here are a few (maybe limited) options.


As you are probably aware, Subsurface can export dive logs in csv 
format. Go File -> export -> CSV. I think, from a blind diver's 
perspective there are two limitations.


1) The CSV is written as an export format. This means that the dive log 
could probably not be kept in CSV format. This would therefore currently 
require a CSV export every time you wish to view new dives that have 
been added to the dive log.


2) The dive-level data (e.g. dive site name, name of buddy, etc) need to 
be exported separately from the profile data (i.e. the time-depth values 
within a single dive). There are therefore two CSV export options: 
export the dive-level data and export the profile-level data. For a 
coherent view of a dive, we mostly use the combination of both types of 
data. I am reasonable sure that it would be reasonably simple to add a 
Subsurface command-line option that exports the dive log to CSV so that 
the dive log export could be done by running Subsurface in command-line 
mode.


Keep in mind that the dive log is in XML format which is also text-based 
and human-readable, as is CSV. The XML version has each dive as a 
complete item, including dive site name, buddy info, etc. But this would 
mean being able to use the XML tags to find specific information items. 
The advantage of this is that no export to CSV would be required.


Secondly, as far as a dive computer is concerned, I have never come 
across one meant for or suitable for divers. The best that I can think 
of is to use a dive computer with a USB cable interface. Most USB dive 
computers I have used automatically go into a PC or download mode when 
the dive computer is connected to a laptop using the USB cable. For my 
Mares computer it was not even necessary to switch on the dive computer: 
it sensed the power on the USB cable and switched into download mode 
automatically. This would simplify the button presses on the dive 
computer when a blind person wishes to download. But the appropriate 
mouse clicks using Subsurface would also be required, and I do not know 
how sophisticated your accessibility software is at reading the download 
panel in Subsurface.


I hope this gives you something to start with.
Kind regards,
willem








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