Re: [Sugar-devel] Reducing Stick Failures - Was Re: [Marketing] press release opportunity...
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 22:15, Caroline Meekscarol...@solutiongrove.com wrote: But anyway, we don't _need_ an expert. Rather an advanced linux user that can ask the right questions, read shell scripts, inspect a running system, etc. Already asked in the local linux user groups? Hi Tomeu, I'm trying to put together a wiki page taht explains where we are where we need to go coherently then I will reach out to LUGS etc. Can you help me feel confident that I have created such a page? Oops, almost miss this hidden message ;) Where is that page? Regards, Tomeu ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] community influence on development
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 23:46, Bert Freudenbergb...@freudenbergs.de wrote: On 30.07.2009, at 22:23, Martin Dengler wrote: On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 04:17:56PM -0300, Bert Freudenberg wrote: On 28.07.2009, at 07:22, Martin Dengler wrote: On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 03:24:13PM +0545, Daniel Drake wrote: However, I feel like it could be better if the community (who I might even stretch to call customers) could have more influence. [...] What are the options for the community having more of an influence here? Influence on whom? Developers? There are no SugarLabs employed developers. But if we get feedback from the front line, from teachers actually using our software in the field, the volunteer developers I know struggle to find a way to make it easier for them. Nothing beats direct contact with children of course, but even meeting teachers from the deployments and hearing first-hand accounts of the problems (and successes!) is rather motivating. Reading these reports on a mailing list is less emotionally moving but still a great hint at how to prioritize one's spare time. I don't disagree with anything you said, but I'm struggling to see how it's relevant to the OP or my reply. Perhaps by the volunteer developers I know struggle to find a way to make it easier for them you're implying that we need to make it easier for volunteer developers to contribute? No, I meant the volunteer developers are motivated largely by feedback from users of their software. They then do all they can (sometimes even struggling) to help. At least that's what I see with the Etoys developers, which is similar to Sugar in that it's not a scratch-your- own-itch open-source project. I think both etoys and sugar can be seen as scratch-your-own-itch projects if we consider that people with their more basic needs covered feel the need of self-realization through having a positive impact in the lives of others. Open source developers of today are normally very well paid and well-considered in their environments, I think they have greater chances to feel the need for something more transcendent than fixing that annoying bug in their text editor of choice or writing their own window manager. So I agree that feedback from users will make more clear the impact that their work has and could serve to attract more contributors if well communicated. Regards, Tomeu - Bert - The problem is we get way too few feedback. Indeed. - Bert - Martin ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) i...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] review of the new toolbars implementation
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 06:27, Aleksey Limalsr...@member.fsf.org wrote: On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 07:51:07PM +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: Hi, +class _Palette(gtk.Window): The palette class is very tricky and is a frequent source of bugs, we shouldn't duplicate it. Either we add what you need to the existing Palette, or we split it out in a BasePalette and Palette and then inherit from BasePalette for this. We have two use cases, I guess its worth waiting for 3rd use case (or huge refacor) and then refactor Palette code (I'm personally dislike idea of refactoring after 2nd use case) Do you have anything in mind that would be the 3rd case? I also dislike refactoring now and having to refactor again later, but I don't see how we can go around this. Regards, Tomeu -- Aleksey ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] How big might a full install of Fedora Sugar be?
[re-adding sugar-devel to CC] On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 11:03, Mathieu Bridon (bochecha)boche...@fedoraproject.org wrote: Id love to try it. Does anyone know where I can find instructions? See download and instructions here: http://fedoraproject.org/get-fedora Once you are in GNOME, you can install Sugar as any other program. See instructions about how to install programs in Fedora's GNOME. Would be better to install directly Sugar instead of GNOME, but I don't know if that's possible right now. Isn't Sugar on the DVD ? Don't know, maybe Sebastian or Simon do? If it's not, it is possible to add a repository to the install with Anaconda (some checkboxes to check) and then retrieve Sugar from those. But even if Sugar was in the DVD, can we install Fedora with Sugar and not GNOME? If so, any pointers to instructions? Regards, Tomeu Regards, -- Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Initial implementation of toolbars design
On 07/31/2009 02:18 AM, Eben Eliason wrote: Here are the icons we used for the view, edit, and color toolbars, Sugarized of course. If anyone has suggestions for other common toolbars across activities that deserve icons in artwork, let me know. Eben Awesome, thanks. I have pushed them to sugar-artwork/icons/scalable/actions/, I guess this is the right place. This is maybe not a general icon, but for memorize I would need one for 'play game' and one for 'create game'. With the toolbar redesign we will restructure the toolbar a bit, but I think we will not fit all the controls in the main toolbar. Regards, Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] How big might a full install of Fedora Sugar be?
On 07/31/2009 11:15 AM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: [re-adding sugar-devel to CC] On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 11:03, Mathieu Bridon (bochecha)boche...@fedoraproject.org wrote: Id love to try it. Does anyone know where I can find instructions? See download and instructions here: http://fedoraproject.org/get-fedora Once you are in GNOME, you can install Sugar as any other program. See instructions about how to install programs in Fedora's GNOME. Would be better to install directly Sugar instead of GNOME, but I don't know if that's possible right now. Isn't Sugar on the DVD ? Don't know, maybe Sebastian or Simon do? If it's not, it is possible to add a repository to the install with Anaconda (some checkboxes to check) and then retrieve Sugar from those. But even if Sugar was in the DVD, can we install Fedora with Sugar and not GNOME? If so, any pointers to instructions? Regards, Tomeu Nope, we can't. I already talked to Sebastian for the need to solve this for F12. In the installer you can only select KDE or GNOME. There might be a reason why you can't - because xfce for example is not available there neither, lets see. Regards, Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] How big might a full install of Fedora Sugar be?
[re-adding sugar-devel to CC] On 07/31/2009 11:33 AM, Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) wrote: But even if Sugar was in the DVD, can we install Fedora with Sugar and not GNOME? If so, any pointers to instructions? Regards, Tomeu Nope, we can't. I already talked to Sebastian for the need to solve this for F12. In the installer you can only select KDE or GNOME. There might be a reason why you can't - because xfce for example is not available there neither, lets see. You can install XFCE from the DVD (maybe adding the repositories, not sure about that) without GNOME or KDE, why not Sugar ? IIRC, only GNOME and KDE have their own groups in the installer, the other DEs appear in something like other desktop environments. Ok, maybe I have overseen then something. Regards, Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] How big might a full install of Fedora Sugar be?
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 11:40, Simon Schampijersi...@schampijer.de wrote: [re-adding sugar-devel to CC] On 07/31/2009 11:33 AM, Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) wrote: But even if Sugar was in the DVD, can we install Fedora with Sugar and not GNOME? If so, any pointers to instructions? Regards, Tomeu Nope, we can't. I already talked to Sebastian for the need to solve this for F12. In the installer you can only select KDE or GNOME. There might be a reason why you can't - because xfce for example is not available there neither, lets see. You can install XFCE from the DVD (maybe adding the repositories, not sure about that) without GNOME or KDE, why not Sugar ? IIRC, only GNOME and KDE have their own groups in the installer, the other DEs appear in something like other desktop environments. Ok, maybe I have overseen then something. Caroline, are you all set to make a Fedora installation with only Sugar in an usb stick? Regards, Tomeu Regards, Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Initial implementation of toolbars design
On 07/28/2009 05:24 PM, Gary C Martin wrote: On 28 Jul 2009, at 12:40, Simon Schampijer wrote: On 07/28/2009 02:51 AM, Gary C Martin wrote: Hi Simon, On 27 Jul 2009, at 22:26, Simon Schampijer wrote: On 07/18/2009 04:17 AM, Gary C Martin wrote: Hi Caroline, On 17 Jul 2009, at 22:14, Caroline Meeks wrote: We can put it in front of actual kids once you get a sample working. We could even try playing the video for our existing classes. I don't know if they'll be able to give you feedback from just seeing the video. Might be interesting to find out. Yes that's an interesting one... I have more understanding of usability studies with literate adults, where you can have a controlled environment. With the idea that you set goals/tasks to be completed with the interface and ask the user to vocalise what they think they are doing (I'm clicking this because I think it's the search button...). You only interact with them once they are clearly stuck, to help them get back on track. Asking for any-ones opinion is usually frowned upon in usability studies, as opinion is almost always different from actual behaviour – but some opinions are better than nothing, which is why I keep asking :-) Perhaps I should work with Walter and Aleksey's initial toolbar code and make an identical test clone of TA but with the new toolbar design (I can use Aleksey's Write mock-up code as an example)? Then you could let the class (or a random selection of the class) use it for some tasks and watch how well (or not) they manage with the new interface? Simon: have you used TA yet in your lessons? Yes, the problem is, that I won't get into class before September again - we have summer holidays :/ About the design - as already noted, the current implementation does not match gary's mockups. I think the mockups are more consistent in using icons in the primary toolbar. Having the text entry field (activity name) present, could help the users that know Sugar already. They would not feel that much lost. Can we get mockups for Browse? I would do the changes then there. Sure, will do. After discussing with Tomeu and Aleksey we thought about providing a widget for the standard toolbar. Looking at your mockups this would be: title entry, [...], keep button, stop button The sharing one can be optional - as not all activities have the sharing facilities. Does that sound good? Sounds good. Ok, at the moment we just fit in the standard 'old' toolbar into the activity toolbar. We would need to change that then. Other thoughts? 1). I was hoping for more feedback before we lock things down, but it's been pretty quiet. I was hoping to hack TurtleArt with a temporary toolbar imitation and get some real usability input from kids, but not sure we have the time? We land it today, Browse and Write are ready, so we can get feedback on them. From the schedule we still have a bit of time. So I am positive. 2). Is it possible to have the title entry input field default width set to allow for 9 icons on the right (this is the maximum needed for current Activity designs), then allow it scale down to some min width if extra icons are added? I would rather there was a little flexibility in the title entry rather than have the Stop and Keep buttons be the first to disappear. Looks like we are over this point, following the other discussions in this thread. 3). FWIW, I'm considering the share with icon should really be over on the right (if sharing feature are present). So the far right icon order would be share with, keep version, stop. Same here. Btw - we went at the moment for eben's design. Gary, we could use your design (with title entry in the top) and test it out, if you think it is worth doing comparing tests. Regards, Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] will the one true browse please stand up?
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 01:38:11PM +0545, Daniel Drake wrote: 2009/7/31 Joshua N Pritikin jpriti...@pobox.com: In fact, I was trying to install precisely that version of Browse-102 (sha1sum 258861e353d32134128be834889f3bd5368d2297) since the beginning. However, I was using a customization key in an attempt to upgrade Browse. Apparently, the customization key can only add new activities and does not upgrade activities. Is this a bug? At a minimum, some clarification is needed on the customization key page: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Customization_key It upgrades them just fine. In fact, all it does is a stupid unzip on all the .xo bundles it can find, meaning that it'll also do downgrades. That was not my experience. Where does the customization key code live in GIT? ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] will the one true browse please stand up?
2009/7/31 Joshua N Pritikin jpriti...@pobox.com: That was not my experience. Where does the customization key code live in GIT? Here: http://dev.laptop.org/git/users/mstone/irfs-udebs/tree/src-olpc/init?h=unpack-bundles ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] One click vs options in palette buttons (from the toolbar redesign thread)
Another question that came up today (screenshot attached): The share button has a regular palette. This is not a toolbar that can be locked. We have one action buttons (e.g. keep one) and we have buttons where the options have to be revealed (like the share one). How do we make this distinction visible in the UI. Aleksey instinctively choose the arrow. But that would clash with the toolbars, and led to confusions. Do we have ideas about that? Thanks, Simon attachment: activity-toolbar.png___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] logo for hulahop? https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=507499
hi folks if you'd like hulahop to have a chance of getting onto the featured apps page a logo / icon would be needed. as this is a chance for promotion of OLPC, sugarlabs as well as hulahop, could someone consider logging in to the mozilla bugtracker and provide a link? l. ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] problem connecting to irc
Hi all, I am trying to connect to the sugar irc but getting this error- Your reported hostname is banned: You have a host listed in the DroneBL. For more information, visit dronebl.org/lookup_branded.do? Any ideas about how can this be dealt with? Regards, sumit ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Initial implementation of toolbars design
On 07/31/2009 12:36 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 12:08, Simon Schampijersi...@schampijer.de wrote: On 07/31/2009 12:02 AM, Eben Eliason wrote: [snip] Personally, I see more the issue of naming an activity, since as said in another post I am not really convinced about the naming alert. I'll have to think about this idea more, but: we could also have the naming alert appear as a palette attached to the stop button, instead. It doesn't change the behavior too much (it requires 2 clicks to stop an activity for the first time if it hasn't been named), but the use of the palette might feel more consistent with Sugar in general. On the other hand, it could be strange to change the behavior of the stop button between the first and other cases. The main problem I guess is, that the kids don't know what the naming dialog is for. The new Sugar users I had in class start by opening and closing activities and work away in them. Even though you explained them the concept of the Journal before, the relation with the naming dialog was not obvious for them. I think the naming and tagging of an activity instance is a more advanced feature, the kids will discover later. Once they experienced the power of it, they can use the Journal itself, or the facilities in the activity to name and tag (has to be added to the toolbar) to fulfill that task. No need to have this extra dialog appearing, imho. I postulate that the 'enforcing' of naming an activity was a nice idea to pay attention to the concept, but I think in practice it does not work out well. Well, AFAIK the reports I have heard are from children using Sugar for a few hours per week with somewhat close supervision from adults. Yeah, as I said, I can only throw in my experience. The journal makes most sense in the OLPC model, where the laptop is a bigger part of the child's life and the journal contains all those interactions. It's hard to balance discoverability and usability, and if we only focus on these light-usage scenarios, we are going to hurt usability. Yeah, there are always tradeoffs, I know. Note that I'm not arguing against removing the naming alert, just saying that we may not be taking into account the needs of people using Sugar more intensively. Of course. But this was my point actually. If you use Sugar more extensively you can tag and name the activity instance in the activity itself before closing it. This would be the same amount of clicks. With the alert you are remembered if you forgot to do so, ok. Can we state what the main goals of the alert are? a) discovering the possibility? b) nagging the user to name the entries c) adding another option to name and tag directly in the activity itself (not only the journal) 4. But these are nitpicks. Fantastic work!! Thanks to Aleksey and review master (even nitpickier then marco) Tomeu! You are clearly in need of a big code review from Marco, so you don't forget any more his pickiness awe. I'm CC'ing him so you learn. :))) Yeah, marco was a great reviewer - learned a lot from him. And your reviews are not just a second class replacement - fabulous job you did! More seriously, I'm very happy how this feature has advanced. Gary, Eben, Aleksey and several other people have worked together to put this forward that I think will be a great feature in 0.86. Congratulations! Tomeu Absolutely! The all-time coding skills from Aleksey are well known by now. I was mostly worried about keeping the high standard in our UI up, in this release cycle. The more I am happy that Gary, Eben and Christian are helping to make this happen. Good team work! Congrats! Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Initial implementation of toolbars design
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:36 AM, Tomeu Vizosoto...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 12:08, Simon Schampijersi...@schampijer.de wrote: On 07/31/2009 12:02 AM, Eben Eliason wrote: [snip] Personally, I see more the issue of naming an activity, since as said in another post I am not really convinced about the naming alert. I'll have to think about this idea more, but: we could also have the naming alert appear as a palette attached to the stop button, instead. It doesn't change the behavior too much (it requires 2 clicks to stop an activity for the first time if it hasn't been named), but the use of the palette might feel more consistent with Sugar in general. On the other hand, it could be strange to change the behavior of the stop button between the first and other cases. The main problem I guess is, that the kids don't know what the naming dialog is for. The new Sugar users I had in class start by opening and closing activities and work away in them. Even though you explained them the concept of the Journal before, the relation with the naming dialog was not obvious for them. I think the naming and tagging of an activity instance is a more advanced feature, the kids will discover later. Once they experienced the power of it, they can use the Journal itself, or the facilities in the activity to name and tag (has to be added to the toolbar) to fulfill that task. No need to have this extra dialog appearing, imho. I postulate that the 'enforcing' of naming an activity was a nice idea to pay attention to the concept, but I think in practice it does not work out well. Well, AFAIK the reports I have heard are from children using Sugar for a few hours per week with somewhat close supervision from adults. The journal makes most sense in the OLPC model, where the laptop is a bigger part of the child's life and the journal contains all those interactions. It's hard to balance discoverability and usability, and if we only focus on these light-usage scenarios, we are going to hurt usability. Note that I'm not arguing against removing the naming alert, just saying that we may not be taking into account the needs of people using Sugar more intensively. It is true that in the classes we taught this summer, the kids did not routinely take advantage of the naming alert--they just dismissed it without understanding it. But in my experience as a long-time Sugar user, it is really much more convenient than switching tabs to name an activity session and the possibility to add a few notes of description at the time of creation is very important. Had we not been so overwhelmed with logistical issues at the start of the summer, I would have insisted on a work flow with the kids where the last 5 minutes of every class would be adding to the description field of the activity they were engaged in that day. Initiating that process from the naming alert would have been easy for them to discover and a nice transition into the Journal itself. 4. But these are nitpicks. Fantastic work!! Thanks to Aleksey and review master (even nitpickier then marco) Tomeu! You are clearly in need of a big code review from Marco, so you don't forget any more his pickiness awe. I'm CC'ing him so you learn. More seriously, I'm very happy how this feature has advanced. Gary, Eben, Aleksey and several other people have worked together to put this forward that I think will be a great feature in 0.86. Congratulations! Tomeu Cheers, Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -walter -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Initial implementation of toolbars design
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 7:30 AM, Simon Schampijersi...@schampijer.de wrote: On 07/31/2009 12:36 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 12:08, Simon Schampijersi...@schampijer.de wrote: On 07/31/2009 12:02 AM, Eben Eliason wrote: [snip] Personally, I see more the issue of naming an activity, since as said in another post I am not really convinced about the naming alert. I'll have to think about this idea more, but: we could also have the naming alert appear as a palette attached to the stop button, instead. It doesn't change the behavior too much (it requires 2 clicks to stop an activity for the first time if it hasn't been named), but the use of the palette might feel more consistent with Sugar in general. On the other hand, it could be strange to change the behavior of the stop button between the first and other cases. The main problem I guess is, that the kids don't know what the naming dialog is for. The new Sugar users I had in class start by opening and closing activities and work away in them. Even though you explained them the concept of the Journal before, the relation with the naming dialog was not obvious for them. I think the naming and tagging of an activity instance is a more advanced feature, the kids will discover later. Once they experienced the power of it, they can use the Journal itself, or the facilities in the activity to name and tag (has to be added to the toolbar) to fulfill that task. No need to have this extra dialog appearing, imho. I postulate that the 'enforcing' of naming an activity was a nice idea to pay attention to the concept, but I think in practice it does not work out well. Well, AFAIK the reports I have heard are from children using Sugar for a few hours per week with somewhat close supervision from adults. Yeah, as I said, I can only throw in my experience. The journal makes most sense in the OLPC model, where the laptop is a bigger part of the child's life and the journal contains all those interactions. It's hard to balance discoverability and usability, and if we only focus on these light-usage scenarios, we are going to hurt usability. Yeah, there are always tradeoffs, I know. Note that I'm not arguing against removing the naming alert, just saying that we may not be taking into account the needs of people using Sugar more intensively. Of course. But this was my point actually. If you use Sugar more extensively you can tag and name the activity instance in the activity itself before closing it. This would be the same amount of clicks. With the alert you are remembered if you forgot to do so, ok. Can we state what the main goals of the alert are? a) discovering the possibility? b) nagging the user to name the entries c) adding another option to name and tag directly in the activity itself (not only the journal) I think that the exposure of the description field here is very important as well. We want kids to reflect on their work and to write!! 4. But these are nitpicks. Fantastic work!! Thanks to Aleksey and review master (even nitpickier then marco) Tomeu! You are clearly in need of a big code review from Marco, so you don't forget any more his pickiness awe. I'm CC'ing him so you learn. :))) Yeah, marco was a great reviewer - learned a lot from him. And your reviews are not just a second class replacement - fabulous job you did! More seriously, I'm very happy how this feature has advanced. Gary, Eben, Aleksey and several other people have worked together to put this forward that I think will be a great feature in 0.86. Congratulations! Tomeu Absolutely! The all-time coding skills from Aleksey are well known by now. I was mostly worried about keeping the high standard in our UI up, in this release cycle. The more I am happy that Gary, Eben and Christian are helping to make this happen. Good team work! Congrats! +1 Amazing work. Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -walter -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Reducing Stick Failures - Was Re: [Marketing] press release opportunity...
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:30 AM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 22:15, Caroline Meekscarol...@solutiongrove.com wrote: But anyway, we don't _need_ an expert. Rather an advanced linux user that can ask the right questions, read shell scripts, inspect a running system, etc. Already asked in the local linux user groups? Hi Tomeu, I'm trying to put together a wiki page taht explains where we are where we need to go coherently then I will reach out to LUGS etc. Can you help me feel confident that I have created such a page? Oops, almost miss this hidden message ;) Where is that page? The Sugar TODO Page is where I am assembling info. Right now, I think we have 2 potential solutions within our internal capabilities. 1. Full Install 2. Open Suse solution My next step is to see if either of these are workable. I do think its technically feasible to create a stick that will withstand quite a bit of abuse if we had the experts in the field helping us. But I'm just working towards good enough for the fall at this point. The TODO page will give you a hint as to where I'm heading next. If Dave Farning thinks he can do the Clone Activity then I'll probably focus on trying to get a few more collaboration use cases working. Collaboration is so effective, cool and engaging when it works. Regards, Tomeu -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove carol...@solutiongrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] problem connecting to irc
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 04:46:38PM +0530, sumit singh wrote: I am trying to connect to the sugar irc but getting this error- Your reported hostname is banned: You have a host listed in the DroneBL. For more information, visit dronebl.org/lookup_branded.do? Any ideas about how can this be dealt with? It has nothing to do with Sugar. The channel is hosted on a free service, FreeNode, which has some conditions of use, and these restrict where connections can be made from. You will need to resolve the issue causing you to be listed in dronebl before you can connect to freenode. You should determine why your IP address is listed. If you are purchasing IP service from a company, you could ask them for advice, but the situation is usually caused by someone else who used your IP before you doing something particularly evil. -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Share button in the activity toolbar (from the toolbar redesign thread)
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 01:47:33PM +0200, Simon Schampijer wrote: Should the activity toolbar contain the share option by default? Disabled by default? I have a vague recollection that sharing was planned to be implemented using VNC for activities that do not implement their own sharing. If you remove the share button completely, then that screen real estate may be used by something else and it will be hard to reclaim it. I also have a vague recollection about the important buttons (like stop) being managed by sugar (broadly defined) and not by the activity using some kind of GtkPlug/GtkSocket type of set up to support the security model. I don't think that got implemented though. ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] logo for hulahop? https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=507499
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 13:01, Luke Kenneth Casson Leightonl...@lkcl.net wrote: hi folks if you'd like hulahop to have a chance of getting onto the featured apps page a logo / icon would be needed. as this is a chance for promotion of OLPC, sugarlabs as well as hulahop, could someone consider logging in to the mozilla bugtracker and provide a link? We don't have such a logo AFAIK. In case someone is available to draw one and would like some suggestions, what about a python snake or a cute godzilla playing hula-hoop? Regards, Tomeu l. ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Share button in the activity toolbar (from the toolbar redesign thread)
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 13:47, Simon Schampijersi...@schampijer.de wrote: Another question that came up today: Should the activity toolbar contain the share option by default? Disabled by default? Maybe we could use the max_participants property to know when to disable the button? Regards, Tomeu erikos a) the sharing button should be optional alsroot erikos: I guess in case of a) we can follow old behaviour - by default all buttons are enabdled, dev is free to hide() them erikos alsroot: I would prefer to hide it by default erikos alsroot: as most of the simple activities do not have sharing facilities alsroot erikos: +1 then erikos alsroot: we could as well make it insensitive erikos alsroot: hmm alsroot erikos: or another option, having full featured activity toolbar and if user wants something different he can create regular gtk.Toolbar and place there activity.widgets components erikos alsroot: hmm, yeah - let's imagine the case: kid does create his first activity erikos alsroot: they will follow guide X - and use the standard toolbar erikos alsroot: even though, no sharing is implemented - they will get the button erikos alsroot: we can ask as well for clarification the design team erikos alsroot: just be to clear: not a blocker to land your work today * alsroot just thinks that mentioning of hiding something from default toolbar in the guide could be more confusing alsroot s/hiding/hiding or showing/ erikos alsroot: lets ask again on the ml, to be sure, sounds good? alsroot erikos: yeah Thanks, Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] safer customization key (was Re: will the one true browse please stand up?)
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 03:52:06PM +0545, Daniel Drake wrote: 2009/7/31 Joshua N Pritikin jpriti...@pobox.com: That was not my experience. Where does the customization key code live in GIT? Here: http://dev.laptop.org/git/users/mstone/irfs-udebs/tree/src-olpc/init?h=unpack-bundles Well, I'd feel a lot better if prior to the unzip you added something like: if ext == '.xo': dest_dir = re.sub(r'\-\d+\.xo$', '', f) + '.activity' shutil.rmtree(join(tgt['.xo'], dest_dir)) I know this does not work as written because the filename can (and often does) mismatch unzip's idea of the directory name. Any idea how to get directory prefix from the zip? ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Reducing Stick Failures - Was Re: [Marketing] press release opportunity...
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 13:50, Caroline Meekscarol...@solutiongrove.com wrote: On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:30 AM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 22:15, Caroline Meekscarol...@solutiongrove.com wrote: But anyway, we don't _need_ an expert. Rather an advanced linux user that can ask the right questions, read shell scripts, inspect a running system, etc. Already asked in the local linux user groups? Hi Tomeu, I'm trying to put together a wiki page taht explains where we are where we need to go coherently then I will reach out to LUGS etc. Can you help me feel confident that I have created such a page? Oops, almost miss this hidden message ;) Where is that page? The Sugar TODO Page is where I am assembling info. Right now, I think we have 2 potential solutions within our internal capabilities. 1. Full Install 2. Open Suse solution My next step is to see if either of these are workable. I do think its technically feasible to create a stick that will withstand quite a bit of abuse if we had the experts in the field helping us. But I'm just working towards good enough for the fall at this point. I guess is this one: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/TODO Looks like a good start, but could you expand on your plans to recruit people to work on the file system issues? Thanks, Tomeu The TODO page will give you a hint as to where I'm heading next. If Dave Farning thinks he can do the Clone Activity then I'll probably focus on trying to get a few more collaboration use cases working. Collaboration is so effective, cool and engaging when it works. Regards, Tomeu -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove carol...@solutiongrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] logo for hulahop? https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=507499
Mathieu makes a good point, but forgot to keep the list in CC. On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 14:10, Mathieu Bridon (bochecha)boche...@fedoraproject.org wrote: hi folks if you'd like hulahop to have a chance of getting onto the featured apps page a logo / icon would be needed. as this is a chance for promotion of OLPC, sugarlabs as well as hulahop, could someone consider logging in to the mozilla bugtracker and provide a link? We don't have such a logo AFAIK. In case someone is available to draw one and would like some suggestions, what about a python snake or a cute godzilla playing hula-hoop? You might want to ask the Fedora Design team, they do such things. Of course, as it's not a Fedora project, it might not be their priority, but it's still worth a try :) https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ Any volunteers to follow on this? Thanks, Tomeu Best regards, -- Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Wireless Connection
Hi To be specific in what? Look, I want to connect to a wifi network, but there are hardly any WIFI hotspot in India. There exists some USB modem wireless connections. Can I connect to them, without owning an USB modem. The rates are very high these days. Sugar network window(Neighbour view) never show up any wireless point except the three MESH network points(1,6,11). I want to connect to the internet, Without spending on USB modems.Is there really any way in which I can connect to the internet wirelessly and find some Wireless Points.I also want to know more about SSID, how can I obtain them? How can I connect to internet then, to any Wireless Points or a USB modem connection. Is there any way in which I can catch USB modem signals and connect through them? How else can I connect to internet via my mobile phone? I have it internet enabled. Thanks again -- Abhishek Indoria OLPC Support, Volunteer Driven -- Abhishek Indoria OLPC Support, Volunteer Driven ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Reducing Stick Failures - Was Re: [Marketing] press release opportunity...
I've arrived late. I've been listening to this discussion for a week. A general comment ... if any state is preserved by the children on the USB sticks, and there is no copy of the state kept elsewhere, and there is a possibility of power failure, premature removal, or other interruptions, then every software component that uses the saved state must be either capable of detecting corruption of the saved state, or graceful recovery from apparently invalid state. It seems that there are a large number of software components involved. Each one would have to be considered. Sounds like an interesting challenge. The way I would approach it is to evaluate the saved state between a working and non-working USB stick. Are these images available for analysis? Would you like technical instructions for capturing images next time the problem happens? My understanding of the Linux based Sugar software stack is that there are many components which could enter a state where they would not start. Back tomorrow. -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Share button in the activity toolbar (from the toolbar redesign thread)
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 02:05:48PM +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 13:47, Simon Schampijersi...@schampijer.de wrote: Another question that came up today: Should the activity toolbar contain the share option by default? Disabled by default? Maybe we could use the max_participants property to know when to disable the button? So, the question is - what is default value for max_participants :) In current code it equals to 0 but old sharing component compares it with 1 thus share combo is visible by default. btw all activities, I've seen before that don't want sharing, hide share combo by share.props.visible not by max_participants, I guess it signalizes about not consistency of current implementation where user can hide/show share button by two different methods. -- Aleksey ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Reducing Stick Failures - Was Re: [Marketing] press release opportunity...
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 8:34 AM, James Cameron qu...@laptop.org wrote: I've arrived late. I've been listening to this discussion for a week. A general comment ... if any state is preserved by the children on the USB sticks, and there is no copy of the state kept elsewhere, and there is a possibility of power failure, premature removal, or other interruptions, then every software component that uses the saved state must be either capable of detecting corruption of the saved state, or graceful recovery from apparently invalid state. Nod. Note further down on this page backup and file recovery is listed. That is in progress. Interestingly enough I have seen kids pull the stick out at the wrong time and that does not see to correlate with the stick failures based on observation not strong data collection. I would like to someday have a really robust solution that could recover from that sort of catastrophic failure and even go through the washing machine. I think such is possible. Right now I'd be happy if sticks rarely failed during normal usage. It seems that there are a large number of software components involved. Each one would have to be considered. Sounds like an interesting challenge. The way I would approach it is to evaluate the saved state between a working and non-working USB stick. Are these images available for analysis? Would you like technical instructions for capturing images next time the problem happens? I have both working and nonworking sticks. I could post images of them. Can you send me instructions on how to create images from MacOSX? Thanks! My understanding of the Linux based Sugar software stack is that there are many components which could enter a state where they would not start. Back tomorrow. -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove carol...@solutiongrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Wireless Connection
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 05:19:43AM -0700, Abhishek Indoria wrote: To be specific in what? Look, I want to connect to a wifi network, but there are hardly any WIFI hotspot in India. There exists some USB modem wireless connections. Can I connect to them, without owning an USB modem. The rates are very high these days. Sugar network window(Neighbour view) never show up any wireless point except the three MESH network points(1,6,11). I want to connect to the internet, Without spending on USB modems.Is there really any way in which I can connect to the internet wirelessly and find some Wireless Points.I also want to know more about SSID, how can I obtain them? How can I connect to internet then, to any Wireless Points or a USB modem connection. Is there any way in which I can catch USB modem signals and connect through them? How else can I connect to internet via my mobile phone? I have it internet enabled. You cannot change the laws of physics. Sugar Neighbourhood View contains the results of a scan of the IEEE 802.11g signals being received. If you have only the three mesh network points, then there are no other signals available. If you like, and you seem like the sort of person who can use a command line, given the amount of typing you just did ... you can also use the Linux command iwlist eth0 scan at the root prompt in the Terminal activity, to obtain a precise technical description of the wireless scan results. This will show to you that Sugar is not hiding anything from you. It may be possible to connect the underlying Linux operating system to the internet through your mobile telephone. But this is not a Sugar problem. The general sequence is to connect the telephone, load the appropriate kernel module (usually something like the option module), and configure pppd. The kernel you have might not have the option module available. The laptop you have might not have pppd installed. Good luck! -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] sugar-artwork-0.85.2
== Source == http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar-artwork/sugar-artwork-0.85.2.tar.bz2 == News == Cross activity toolbar icons ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] Browse-110
== Source == http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/fructose/Browse/Browse-110.tar.bz2 == News == Toolbar redesign ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Call for Help: SoaS Display Manager (Auto-Login)
Hi everybody, I could use a hand with auto-login on SoaS. We've been using slim so far but will switch in the near future (in fact, I already committed a change in GIT), as we also need to login automatically after killing / restarting X. Therefore, the most feasible solution seems to be olpc-dm from the olpc-utils right now. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to get it successfully to work and am lost with a black screen on tty1 so far. Looking at /var/log/message, the following stuff seems spurious: olpc-dm: Can't get tty name: inappropriate ioctl for device init: prefdm main process terminated with status 1 The occurs quite a few times and running initctl start prefdm manually from the console also gives a prefdm respawning too fast. On the other hand, running olpc-dm directly as root works, though. If anybody has an idea how to fix this, meaning to get auto-login to work again, any help is greatly appreciated. We can also provide the current snapshot pre-built as an .iso file, if required. Feel free to contact me directly, too. Thanks, --Sebastian Dziallas for the SoaS Team ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Share button in the activity toolbar (from the toolbar redesign thread)
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 8:41 AM, Aleksey Limalsr...@member.fsf.org wrote: On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 02:05:48PM +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 13:47, Simon Schampijersi...@schampijer.de wrote: Another question that came up today: Should the activity toolbar contain the share option by default? Disabled by default? Maybe we could use the max_participants property to know when to disable the button? This makes sense to me. I think it's useful to keep it in view to indicate that the activity is private. A non-collaborative activity still has a sharing scope. So, the question is - what is default value for max_participants :) In current code it equals to 0 but old sharing component compares it with 1 thus share combo is visible by default. An activity that supports 0 participants (or fewer!) sounds pretty useless. Clearly 1 is the logical default for this property. btw all activities, I've seen before that don't want sharing, hide share combo by share.props.visible not by max_participants, I guess it signalizes about not consistency of current implementation where user can hide/show share button by two different methods. Yup, we should push towards consistency here. I'd bet activities wouldn't bother to hide it if Sugar made it insensitive properly. Eben ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Additional data for corrupted SoaS
I created a SoaS with livecd-iso-to-disk.sh which has 1) overlay for squahsfs operation system changes 2) home.img for /home. I started it up and tried to corrupt it by unplugging during shutdown. I was able to break all activities by corrupting the datastore. Here is an example log from the Log activity startup http://pastebin.com/m810ce7e I was also unable to remove the datastore files due to ext3fs errors when I tried rm -rf ~/.sugar/default/datastore Some discussion on irc of possible solutions or at least improvements: 12:01 tomeu daveb: there are some fs params that may reduce this risk 12:04 silbe daveb: i recommend data=journal on every ext3 filesystem carrying data, even though it's significantly slower Dave -- Dave Bauer d...@solutiongrove.com http://www.solutiongrove.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Karma collaboration
On Fri, 2009-07-31 at 11:25 +0545, Christoph Derndorfer wrote: Thanks for the notes, definitely some interesting food for thought. However admittedly I personally believe that we have a whole host of other and IMHO more important issues to sort out before we should spend too much time on making collaboration work. +1 I still feel that the purpose of karma is to make it extremely easy to create simple activities and only later to be a full-featured platform. That said, there are people who won't be interested in the specification writing and prototype creation that subzero, christoph, and myself are working on. It would be great for others to work on collaboration stuff. -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Ticket 1116: X server does not start after Soas is install on hard disk
Just added this ticket hoping it will help resolve the issue. I'd like to be able to move forward but so far the only thing that appears to work is Soas. BTW if I add a driver to Soas while running it, does it stay on the stick? I tend to think that only user changes are permanent. -- Philippe -- The trouble with common sense is that it is so uncommon. Anonymous ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Additional data for corrupted SoaS
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 9:07 AM, Dave Bauer d...@solutiongrove.com wrote: I created a SoaS with livecd-iso-to-disk.sh which has 1) overlay for squahsfs operation system changes 2) home.img for /home. I started it up and tried to corrupt it by unplugging during shutdown. I was able to break all activities by corrupting the datastore. Here is an example log from the Log activity startup http://pastebin.com/m810ce7e I was also unable to remove the datastore files due to ext3fs errors when I tried rm -rf ~/.sugar/default/datastore Some discussion on irc of possible solutions or at least improvements: 12:01 tomeu daveb: there are some fs params that may reduce this risk 12:04 silbe daveb: i recommend data=journal on every ext3 filesystem carrying data, even though it's significantly slower Dave -- Dave Bauer d...@solutiongrove.com http://www.solutiongrove.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel Is it possible to unmount /home after the writing is done and it sits idle for x seconds? I vaguely remember LTSP doing something like this for USB stick in that environment. David Van Assche might know... Here's something more http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspFSAutomount cheers, Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] GPA in Sept and the next release of SoaS
Work with kids for the summer is starting to wind down and I'm starting to get ready for the fall. Kids return Sept 10th. I don't yet know what day we will hand out the first sticks. As I start testing and preparing the Master Stick for the GPA what release should I be working with? How can I be helpful to you for the next release? What should I be doing to insure I have the best possible stick in terms of both stability and new features? What do we imagine the logistics for upgrading sticks in the field during the year will be? Thanks! Caroline -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove carol...@solutiongrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] How big might a full install of Fedora Sugar be?
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:57 AM, Caroline Meeks solutiongr...@gmail.comwrote: Caroline, are you all set to make a Fedora installation with only Sugar in an usb stick? The clearest instructions so far are from Tom http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/VMware#Full_Install_with_F11_Net_install_CD_to_USB_Stick http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/VMware#Full_Install_with_F11_Net_install_CD_to_USB_StickI haven't tried it yet. But he says this may require a 8GB stick!?!? What about doing a F11 GNOME install to a large USB drive, yum installing Sugar stuff, removing the unwanted bits, resizing the partitions to desirable size, and then dd ing that to a desirable USB stick (marked bootable) as a master img? cheers, Sameer Regards, Tomeu Regards, Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove carol...@solutiongrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] How big might a full install of Fedora Sugar be?
What about doing a F11 GNOME install to a large USB drive, yum installing Sugar stuff, removing the unwanted bits, resizing the partitions to desirable size, and then dd ing that to a desirable USB stick (marked bootable) as a master img? And do that process again each time you want to release an updated image ? Use a kickstart file, create the master image with pungi, then let it install itself automatically on the USB sticks. That's exactly what Sebastian has been doing with SoaS, except he created live images when you want installed systems. -- Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Group view proposals (was: Assessment in Karma)
Hi Christopher, On 30 Jul 2009, at 05:56, Christoph Derndorfer wrote: On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 1:18 AM, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com wrote: On 29 Jul 2009, at 06:40, Christoph Derndorfer wrote: As previously mentioned by Bryan in his Automated Assessment is the Killer App blog post (http://karmaproject.wordpress.com/2009/07/06/assessment-is-the-killer-app/ ) student assessment is an important component of Karma. While toying around with the lesson UI I realized that the assessment area is still very much an empty space (which kinda reminds me of the group view in Sugar;-) Gary, sorry for that but I couldn't help myself... ;-) I was just teasing, but thanks for the feedback! Feedback most welcome (or else you may get something you don't like)! ;-b http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Design_Team/Proposals/Groups Thanks a lot for the link, I certainly wasn't aware of the new proposals / mockups for groups, I guess I must have missed the announcement or something. Sorry, lots of deep long threads that can get pretty impenetrable even to those contributing (let alone the casual observer)! To be honest I often browse a few pages of the wiki Special:NewFiles section to get a feeling what else has been going on: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Special:NewFiles Quite frankly speaking it's hard for me to make educated comments on these proposals as I know too little about how (if at all) collaboration is being used in schools at the moment and what the requirements really look like. Main recent feedback has come in via Caroline relating to the GPA. Wanted a way a teacher could distribute something to the whole class (couldn't quickly find the original feedback email thread, Caroline: should this be listed on your GPA page?). Keeping the above in mind I'd say that in general the suggestions in the latest mockups looks very reasonable. As far as the former design sketches are concerned I'm not a big fan of the overlays used for creating groups as these overlays somehow seem to break the consistency in the Sugar UI (hence why I'm for example also not a big fan of that name this entry dialogue box when stopping an activity in 0.84). Yea same here. What I really do like about those earlier mockups though is the ability to add multiple people to a group very quickly whereas the new mockups seem to necessitate selecting members to be added on an individual basis (something we should strive to avoid IMHO). Good point, I'll have a think if there's any way of speeding this up. Related to this I think that the feature that allows users (in most cases probably teachers) to create closed groups makes a lot of sense. My mockups avoid this distinction as the groups you create are local to you (think of this like conventional IM buddy lists) and are therefor in your control. The new mockups also don't include the icons to show what shared activities the various members of a group are working on. I'm not sure whether this is due to design or obmission in the mockups but I do feel that showing the shared activities makes sense. Just an omission when I was grabbing the content for the screen shots. Shared activities from members of the group would show in the group view. The ability to share Journal entries with a group and to invite a group to a shared activity (as presented in both mockups) is something I'd definitely consider a must-have. +1 A somewhat related question to me is whether the available information about groups can also be used to make the neighborhood view less random, Slightly OT, there is an 0.86 roadmap item to try to position neighbourhood objects consistently (using unique ids to generate x,y placements, instead of random, repositioning in the case of collision). Gadget is also floating about (and needing plenty of discussion, and mockups), but it may be that group/friend memberships will provide us some useful hints to help auto filter the default neighbourhood display (when things are too crowded). e.g. by placing groups (not sure how they'd be represented though) or members of groups I belong to closer to the XO-icon representing myself. I hope this message compensates for yesterday's snappy comment:-) You weren't snappy at all, but thanks again for the feedback! :-) Regards, --Gary ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] logo for hulahop? https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=507499
On 7/31/09, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 13:01, Luke Kenneth Casson Leightonl...@lkcl.net wrote: hi folks if you'd like hulahop to have a chance of getting onto the featured apps page a logo / icon would be needed. as this is a chance for promotion of OLPC, sugarlabs as well as hulahop, could someone consider logging in to the mozilla bugtracker and provide a link? We don't have such a logo AFAIK. In case someone is available to draw one and would like some suggestions, what about a python snake or a cute godzilla playing hula-hoop? :) is there an icon for the browser when it's started up? i'm doing a simple logo for pyjamas, a happy person made out of a circle and two half-circles, one upside down (legs), hmmm, i know it's like the XO thing except that's an X not circles, but hey :) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] Browse-110
Out of curiosity: How did we end up at Browse-110? Maybe I missed something here but wasn't the latest version 102, 103 or something when this issue was last discussed less than 72 hours ago? Slightly confused, Christoph On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 8:04 PM, Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.dewrote: == Source == http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/fructose/Browse/Browse-110.tar.bz2 == News == Toolbar redesign ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Christoph Derndorfer co-editor, olpcnews url: www.olpcnews.com e-mail: christ...@olpcnews.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] Browse-110
Hi, I think the version jump is intentional to allow for intermediate stable releases targetted for 0.84 if the need arises. If someone finds a critical issue in Browse 103, Simon can always release 104 with the fix and nothing more. -sdg- On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 11:40 PM, Christoph Derndorferchristoph.derndor...@gmail.com wrote: Out of curiosity: How did we end up at Browse-110? Maybe I missed something here but wasn't the latest version 102, 103 or something when this issue was last discussed less than 72 hours ago? Slightly confused, Christoph On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 8:04 PM, Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.de wrote: == Source == http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/fructose/Browse/Browse-110.tar.bz2 == News == Toolbar redesign ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Christoph Derndorfer co-editor, olpcnews url: www.olpcnews.com e-mail: christ...@olpcnews.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] logo for hulahop? https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=507499
This is the browser's (called Browse actually) icon. http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/browse/repos/mainline/blobs/master/activity/activity-web.svg 2009/7/31 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton l...@lkcl.net: On 7/31/09, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 13:01, Luke Kenneth Casson Leightonl...@lkcl.net wrote: hi folks if you'd like hulahop to have a chance of getting onto the featured apps page a logo / icon would be needed. as this is a chance for promotion of OLPC, sugarlabs as well as hulahop, could someone consider logging in to the mozilla bugtracker and provide a link? We don't have such a logo AFAIK. In case someone is available to draw one and would like some suggestions, what about a python snake or a cute godzilla playing hula-hoop? :) is there an icon for the browser when it's started up? i'm doing a simple logo for pyjamas, a happy person made out of a circle and two half-circles, one upside down (legs), hmmm, i know it's like the XO thing except that's an X not circles, but hey :) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Background Colors
I'd like to thanks all those here who helped me with my background color issue (i.e., trying to override Sugar's medium gray). Though I managed to get various areas of the screen (including the whole display) in different colors, I never managed to put content over the background (at this point Sugar always came back with its medium gray). More importantly, however, in exploration of PyGTK, I happened across the set_use_markup() property (especially in conjunction with gtk.Frame and gtk.Label). Using this property allowed XML to give me bold, italics, underline, different font sizes - all of which achieved my goal of better contrast between text and background. This solution is better than different background colors, and requires hardly any additional code at all. Once again, many thanks for your guidance. This community is really something! Art Hunkins ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Screen Reposition?
I finally managed to see a mockup of my XO Activity on one of my SoaS setups (large monitor). As I feared, everything displayed in the upper left corner of the screen. I know this issue has been frequently discussed here. Can someone point me to the simplest python code for placing an XO screen-full square in the middle of any monitor display? No resizing (at least, not necessarily), just placement in mid-screen (vertically and horizontally). I've got some general ideas, but am not a coder - and my knowledge of PyGTK is skin-deep. Art Hunkins ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] problem connecting to irc
Hi James, Thanx a lot James for your reply. I don't know why the problem occurred, but finally after a few hours I can now access the sugar irc. Maybe its due to the blessings of all the sugar mailing list users, lolz ... :) Regards, sumit. On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:20 PM, James Cameronqu...@laptop.org wrote: On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 04:46:38PM +0530, sumit singh wrote: I am trying to connect to the sugar irc but getting this error- Your reported hostname is banned: You have a host listed in the DroneBL. For more information, visit dronebl.org/lookup_branded.do? Any ideas about how can this be dealt with? It has nothing to do with Sugar. The channel is hosted on a free service, FreeNode, which has some conditions of use, and these restrict where connections can be made from. You will need to resolve the issue causing you to be listed in dronebl before you can connect to freenode. You should determine why your IP address is listed. If you are purchasing IP service from a company, you could ask them for advice, but the situation is usually caused by someone else who used your IP before you doing something particularly evil. -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] review of the new toolbars implementation
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 04:27:37AM +, Aleksey Lim wrote: On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 07:51:07PM +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: Hi, +class _Palette(gtk.Window): The palette class is very tricky and is a frequent source of bugs, we shouldn't duplicate it. Either we add what you need to the existing Palette, or we split it out in a BasePalette and Palette and then inherit from BasePalette for this. We have two use cases, I guess its worth waiting for 3rd use case (or huge refacor) and then refactor Palette code (I'm personally dislike idea of refactoring after 2nd use case) It should fix new Palette related bugs in toolbarbox http://people.sugarlabs.org/~alsroot/sugar-toolkit.patch http://people.sugarlabs.org/~alsroot/post-sugar-toolkit.patch -- Aleksey ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Book bundles and Read
Journal needs to cover these features (whatever they resolve to be). Every activity author should not be inventing various implementations of a book shelf UI concepts for dealing with a monoculture 'collection' of objects. Imagine if I wanted to put together a 'collection' of Physics simulations to teach curriculum, or some Turtle Art projects teaching the idea of vectors, or a mix of both along with a book or two and a Labyrinth mind-map of topic notes. What happens if an Activity wants to use the ObjectChooser to pick an object buried in someone else's collection. On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 6:57 PM, Sayamindu Dasgupta sayami...@gmail.comwrote: I do agree with you that it is the Journal which should be doing this, and not Read (except for maybe accessing online catalogs - though I think James has a better approach with his Get IA Books activity. It's just that, I'm a bit frustrated with the current state of the journal (especially for handling collections), and while xol-s are a great idea in theory, the practice of jumping through the browser (especially if Rainbow is enabled) is extremely crappy, IMHO :-). However, after going through all the mails, especially the links which Aleksey sent, I think it may be worthwhile to devote my coding cycles to the Journal instead. I disagree here. In theory, it is nice to imagine you might only need to solve a large # of similar interface and design problems once for every situation. In practice, it is really difficult to design a smooth, fast, rewarding interface for a general problem : a focused use case, and the freedom to make something work brilliantly for that case without having to demonstrate that it is a good design decision for all other parallel use cases, helps get something useful. I would expect to regularly want my bookshelf to be able to browse through hundreds of files at once, searching and autocompleting through their specific index; sort by book-specific metadata fields; and handle a collection 90% of which I am not storing locally -- possibly requesting a book from a repository off-disk, possibly keeping a fixed size on-disk library and having a process for queueing old books for local removal. Yes, an Ideal Journal might include these features. But I expect a Read -- Get IA Books activity might deal with this over the next year or two much more effectively than an a Journal being pulled in many directions. S. ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Reducing Stick Failures - Was Re: [Marketing] press release opportunity...
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 08:41:29AM -0400, Caroline Meeks wrote: On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 8:34 AM, James Cameron qu...@laptop.org wrote: I've arrived late. I've been listening to this discussion for a week. A general comment ... if any state is preserved by the children on the USB sticks, and there is no copy of the state kept elsewhere, and there is a possibility of power failure, premature removal, or other interruptions, then every software component that uses the saved state must be either capable of detecting corruption of the saved state, or graceful recovery from apparently invalid state. Nod. Note further down on this page backup and file recovery is listed. That is in progress. There's also a risk that a corrupted saved state could be backed up, in such a way that a restore would return the system to a non-working state. Interestingly enough I have seen kids pull the stick out at the wrong time and that does not see to correlate with the stick failures based on observation not strong data collection. Yes, I'm worried that the cause may be more complex, and without analysis we might all be relying on hope. I have both working and nonworking sticks. I could post images of them. Can you send me instructions on how to create images from MacOSX? Sadly, no. While I have a Mac OS X system here, I don't yet know how to access a USB device at a raw block level. However, it is easy for me to explain on Linux: 1. while the device is not plugged in, identify the last block device listed in /proc/partitions, 2. plug the device in, allow five to ten seconds for settling delay, and identify the new block device listed in /proc/partitions, for instance it may appear as /dev/sda and /dev/sda1, the former is the whole device, the latter is the first partition, 3. copy the data from the whole device, using a compression program, for instance: # gzip /dev/sda usb-stick.img.gz ... where you should replace /dev/sda with whatever the result was from step 2 above. This creates an image of the whole device, which is compressed, and can be used for analysis. The ideal data set would be a working and non-working image from exactly the same version ... and as small a stick as possible ;-). -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Reducing Stick Failures - Was Re: [Marketing] press release opportunity...
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:34 AM, James Cameronqu...@laptop.org wrote: A general comment ... if any state is preserved by the children on the USB sticks, and there is no copy of the state kept elsewhere, and there is a possibility of power failure, premature removal, or other interruptions, then every software component that uses the saved state must be either capable of detecting corruption of the saved state, or graceful recovery from apparently invalid state. This is a lot more basic. The current SoaS uses - FAT16 - An overlay FS in a file on FAT16 The most trivial non-100% kosher shutdown completely cooks the overlay. One serious oddity is that the overlay is mounted by something that depends on X or the gnome / sugar session, so an X crash unmounts the overlay, somtimes corrupting it. And more serious hangs or oops, did I just pull the USB stick moments have a very high chance of cooking the FAT partition itself. We have 2 brittle filesystems, one on top of eachother. The proposals if using a fully installed USB, probably using a journalled FS are definitely a step in the good direction. Once that is fixed, then it makes sense to look at the app layer that you mention. But that's the same app layer we have on the XO, and it's been handling unclean shutdowns pretty well for a while (on 0.82 at least). cheers, m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
