[Sugar-devel] TurtleArt problems in Ubuntu
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/turtleart/+bug/731133 TurtleArt 98.1, as packaged for Ubuntu, is missing essential files and cannot start. Who is responsible for this package? -- Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Fwd: [Womeninfreesoftware] [x-post] Fwd: pseudo-summer of code (paid)
FYI. -- Forwarded message -- From: ॥ स्वक्ष ॥ v...@svaksha.com Date: Sat, May 21, 2011 at 01:45 Subject: [Womeninfreesoftware] [x-post] Fwd: pseudo-summer of code (paid) To: Discussion re: increasing women's participation in free software womeninfreesoftw...@gnu.org, ilug-bengal...@googlegroups.com Hi, Two Internship positions:: first preference is for local (in USA) person, but if no local people submit a competitive application they will work with people outside the USA. The Stack:: Perl, Javascript, BASH, SQL. And do note that the last date for application is next week, so feel free to pass the word around. -Vid -- Forwarded message -- We ( http://thecsl.org ) have also suffered a bit of disappointment this summer. As an organization, we were rejected for official GSOC this summer. However, we raised $5,000 on our own. Google was kind enough to match that. We have two pseudo GSOC positions. Application procedure below: http://wiki.thecsl.org/mediawiki/index.php/Pseudo_GSOC ___ womeninfreesoftware mailing list womeninfreesoftw...@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/womeninfreesoftware -- Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [GSOC proposal]Language Primer
Learning languages is an essential part of the mission, so I am glad to see your proposal. You don't explain how you intend to teach grammar and usage. Can you tell us more? Will you include practice on speech sounds and intonation? 我在英国学中国话. On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 03:04, Zhang Yao saturnt...@gmail.com wrote: Hi ! I'm an undergraduate student from China and I want to participate in the GSOC 2010 for Sugar Labs. I've already written my proposal on Sugar Lab's Wiki and I would like to have some feedbacks from the community. I would really appreciate it if you could spare some of your precious time to pay a visit to my wiki page and please do not hesitate to give feedbacks if you have any thoughts or comments about it. Here's the URL : http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Summer_of_Code/2010/Language_Primer and I am looking forward to hearing from you soon :) Best Wishes! -- School of Computer Science Fudan University, Shanghai, China Yao Zhang e-mail:saturnt...@gmail.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. http://www.earthtreasury.org/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Fwd: [Sur] Presidente Chavez, com putadoras para niños
Does anybody here know about this Lemote computer from Quanta, and its version of Debian? Venezuela is ordering lots of them. Is anybody working on getting Sugar on it? -- Forwarded message -- From: Luis Galindo llwwwl...@gmail.com Date: 2010/4/1 Subject: Re: [Sur] Presidente Chavez, computadoras para niños To: OLPC para usuarios, docentes, voluntarios y administradores olpc-...@lists.laptop.org En una charla en La Paz de Esteban Saavedra sobre la Lemote, posiblemente lo conocen, dijo que la empresa venezolana que ensamblaba estas computadoras chinas, iba a comenzar con el mercado interno, posteriormente con los países miembros del ALBA, y después con el resto de Latinoamérica. Eso fue lo que escuche hace como un año atrás. Luis El 31 de marzo de 2010 17:49, Yamandu Ploskonka yamap...@bolinux.org escribió: VIT, la empresa venezolana que maneja el proyecto de la Computadora Bolivariana, está ya importando laptops de China y poniendo su etiqueta para venderlas, aparentemente sólo para el mercado interno. On 03/26/2010 08:23 PM, cristian paul peñaranda rojas wrote: ¿Alguien sabe por que no están tomando en cuenta XOs? por supuesto, aparte del hermano de Nicolás... Y el socio de Rodrigo... No se si talves el gobierno venzolano esta interesado en esperar que poder-digital [1] este en capaciad de esamblar o almenos traer laptop de china. No se me occurre mas saluds cristian paul [1]http://www.poder-digital.com ___ Lista olpc-Sur olpc-...@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur ___ Lista olpc-Sur olpc-...@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur ___ Lista olpc-Sur olpc-...@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur -- Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. http://www.earthtreasury.org/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] New Chapter in Make Your Own Sugar Activities needs review
On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 16:26, James Simmons nices...@gmail.com wrote: This PDF has the Fun With The Journal chapter updated using Bert Freudenberg's suggestions. I've updated Sugar Commander based on these suggestions and it works better than ever, and thanks to Bert I understand parts of my own code that were mysterious before. Ah, lots of goodies, indeed. I have an idea that we can improve the presentation and sequencing of ideas to make this easier on the reader who knows Python but not Sugar. It will take me a little while to work through it, and I have some writing of my own to catch up on. I'll see what I can do next week. http://objavi.flossmanuals.net/books/ActivitiesGuideSugar-en-2010.03.28-22.20.52.pdf James Simmons ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. http://www.earthtreasury.org/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Porting a game to Sugar
Check out Make Your Own Sugar Activities!, which is currently being written and edited. Let us know if you find any errors or omissions. http://en.flossmanuals.net/ActivitiesGuideSugar/Introduction On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 14:19, John I. Gakos gakos.ioan...@gmail.com wrote: Hey folks, i need some help with the development progress of porting a game to sugar. (hangman) I am newbie to the community and i would like to ask for some help concerning the networking section. This is the repo i use. http://bitbucket.org/gakos/hangman.activity/overview/ Kind regards, John -- Gakos Ioannis Undergraduate student Computer Engineering Informatics University Of Patras,Greece ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. http://www.earthtreasury.org/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [DESIGN] Double clicks
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 07:39, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 6:34 AM, Sascha Silbe sascha-ml-ui-sugar-de...@silbe.org wrote: On Sat, Mar 06, 2010 at 10:27:37AM +, Aleksey Lim wrote: But looks like sugar doesn't use double clicks somewhere, was it done by intention e.g. double clicks are too complicated to reproduce? Please don't require multi-clicks (double, triple) anywhere (or for that matter, any operation where timing is critical). [snip] CU Sascha -- http://sascha.silbe.org/ http://www.infra-silbe.de/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) I agree with Sascha that double clicking should be avoided... Perhaps kids can learn it, but we will immediately make the interface unusable for the elderly. Double- and triple-clicking are in a number of Sugar activities now, with no explanation. Triple-click usually selects a whole line or a whole paragraph. Many adults are unaware that this function is available in their word processors or e-mail editors. For more on such issues, see http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/The_Undiscoverable We already use modifier keys in the interface to switch to an advanced behavior. Why not the usual shift and ctrl clicks? I don't mind which mouse behavior you use, as long as you provide a way to discover it. For example, you can put the action in a menu item along with a hint giving the keyboard shortcut. For example, Firefox puts this on the Edit menu along with many others. Undo Ctrl+Z This is not strictly correct, since this notation sometimes means Shift+Ctrl+z. The actual shortcut for Undo in many programs is Ctrl+z. The most common shortcut for Select All is Ctrl+a. -walter iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJLkj20AAoJELpz82VMF3DaiC4H/06TUXkgVNTGQBbo9GCbpABB fpnTp6s2bsSikltUXLlhNiNyWFrxPnbW8kdYpVWIasEKY7RxacnRA7eLjjdmDNIm 2XKL0KeP53VVsZe1xk9A1s9OMOJ7errQ2p87c/pXIuHMEhM2bxwtG0cbaC7tnIT1 dkmSiCW3rRXAg8kFJPDa4Yc6T+MoeissRCO1+oa0qqbZq7yhytPrT81X4P7f9m+d Pd74VcSf8j9Y9HrqPmCUVQfn9UYGnBTt2FOrrVkEy2boiebjy4b5QNiCS+HDCSjn BBzzDZCfBraATcykI0/qj0U0rusCRb6oBUg5pUEf+2A5wINiM1RYBWCVAy/1Ibg= =XUwk -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. http://www.earthtreasury.org/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [Systems] Turtle Art on Activities.sugarlabs.org
Not just kids. I had to do my own detective work in order to send Walter a set of TA sessions for various lessons. On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 13:08, David Farning dfarn...@gmail.com wrote: The other day during an infrastructure meeting, Walter brought up some thought on how to enable kids to exchange Turtle Art projects Alsroot has been thinking about how to do this through a.sl.o since he became the activities.sugarlabs.org code maintainer. The high level view is that someone can easily upload Turtle Art creations to somewhere and then they, or others, can go to a portal to download other Turtle Art creations. Client side, this would require: 1. Adding a widget to either the journal or the TA activity to upload the TA Bundle. 2. Adding a TA bundle installer to handler TA Bundle downloads. Server side, this would require: 1. A place to accept TA bundle uploads. 2. A search-able place from which to download TA bundles We have some similar systems we can look to as examples. 1. Scratch -- Scratch has an upload button and users can download scratch projects from -- http://scratch.mit.edu/galleries/browse/newest 2. ASLO -- Users upload XO bundles via a web interface and download via a web interface. My initial instinct is to see if ASLO can be adopted to fit this need. Primarily because we have it, it works, and it is scalable. On the other hand, if the only tool in one's toolbox is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. (How is that for over using clichés and buzzword?) Considerations: ASLO rocks:) ASLO can be adapted to handle various file types. For example: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/browse/type:3 https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/browse/type:2 Each file type can have a separate look and feel. Is the activity creation and upload process too complicated for young users? Moving forward: Would it be possible to journal or TA widget which: 1. Walks the student though a upload wizard. 2. Combines the TA project into a into a bundle with the metadata generated in the wizard. 3. Sends the bundle to activites.sl.o/uploads Would it be possible to setup/adapt ASLO to: 1. Handle TA files types. 2. Accepts TA bundles+metadata uploads and inserts them into the review queue. david ___ Systems mailing list syst...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/systems -- Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. http://www.earthtreasury.org/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] TurtleArt-83
Thanks. Can we have a While or Until block? Also, prefix logic blocks? Both would greatly simplify certain kinds of program. Also, how about reading the color under the Turtle? On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 07:57, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: I have a new refactored version of Turtle Art (a fructose module) that has many new features for the Sucrose 0.87.4 unstable release. Still some debugging to do, but generally it seems to be in good shape. The tarball is available here: http://download.sugarlabs.org/srv/www-sugarlabs/download/sources/sucrose/fructose/TurtleArt/TurtleArt-83.tar.gz FYI: New for v83 * added new user-interface features o support for multiple turtles o expandable blocks o collapsible stacks o runtime block highlighting o error highlighting o trash palette (with restore) o palette better integrated into Sugar toolbar o variable-length string blocks o editable string blocks o paste text from Sugar clipboard to string blocks o new boolean logic UI o showblock to compliment hideblock o fullscreen block o editible macros (used for presentation blocks) o labels on coordinate-grid overlays o more complete support in non-Sugar environments o new (and improved) sample code * completed a major refactoring of the code o 90% smaller download bundle-size o faster first-time launch o greatly simplified i18n maintenance o easier to extend with new blocks and palettes Still more testing to go before a general release--your feedback very welcome as always. -walter -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. http://www.earthtreasury.org/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [DESIGN] 'Resume' vs 'Start a new' Activity
On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 12:18, Gerald Ardito gma...@gmail.com wrote: Edward, I am interested in what you have about the various key click behavior on the basic XO. I will be able to resume work on these issues soon. We are beginning to settle into our new home. And, I can validate your estimate about the year to learn from our pilot program last year. I'm not clear what you mean. I wrote about Alan Kay's estimate that it takes a year to go from an idea for a lesson to something tested, verified, and polished. Do you mean a year for teachers to get an idea of what they are doing with XOs? In fact, we can expect to go on improving these processes for decades, perhaps centuries, considering the model of the printing press and the profusion of kinds of publishing over the last five and a half centuries. I can also say that it depends less upon prior experience with computers as it does with a willingness to explore and meet obstacles, at least the 5th graders with whom I've been working. Many times, students at this level with a certain amount of experience with computers don't/can't really generalize to a new system. Adults are almost universally convinced that they are unable to generalize from Word to Open Office or from Windows to Linux. Linux Users are more able to generalize, at least in part because they tend to be familiar with multiple distributions. Part of the problem is the insistence in schools on Right Answers. In order to learn something new, you have to be willing to make mistakes that you could avoid by staying with what you know. Anything that is worth doing at all is worth doing wrong. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Mokurai/Quotes#Pablo_Picasso Pablo Picasso * I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. Thanks again. Gerald On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 12:21 AM, Edward Cherlin echer...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 19:14, Gerald Ardito gma...@gmail.com wrote: Edward, This is very helpful. Thanks. My pleasure. I have lots more of this sort of thing in draft. Let me know of any other such issues you have run into, and I can give you what I have, or think about it further. There are numerous uses for left-click, double-click, triple-click, click-and-drag, right click, hover, and in some systems mouse gestures. I use a four-button trackball, and my son uses a special game control mouse, but we don't have to get into all of that with Sugar. ^_^ It will also be helpful, if you try my suggested process, to document how long it takes for children in a given class to catch on to an idea, and how long it takes for it to become automatic. I don't know how we can instrument such a study, but I expect that someone here will have an idea. I expect to see variations by age, by prior computer experience (positive or negative), and by cultural and social factors. BTW, nobody should suppose that this succession of ideas is finished and perfect. No amount of sympathetic imagination can substitute for classroom experience, any more than a battle plan can survive contact with the enemy. I want to hear suggestions for improvement, and I want to hear about other issues that arise. Alan Kay has said that it takes about a year to polish a math or physics lesson, and I will be surprised if it is very much shorter for each of the key issues in Sugar. Gerald -- Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. http://www.earthtreasury.org/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [DESIGN] 'Resume' vs 'Start a new' Activity
Excellent post. We need lots more like it to give us real-world information on children's learning issues. I am documenting these problems in [[The Undiscoverable]], and working on a guide for teachers to introduce and reinforce whatever children have trouble with. It has been on hold during my move from California to Indiana, but I can resume work now. Have you tried giving explicit lessons on Start New and Resume as part of larger lessons? Something like this, perhaps: Class, we worked on [activity, function] yesterday, and we wanted to know how to [other function]. Let's see if we can discover how to do that in [activity]. First, right-click on [activity name] and select New to start a new session. Then click the [tabe name] tab, and look at the controls. Do any of them look as though they do what we want? What happens when you try them?... At the end of the session, have students exit and give the session a meaningful name related to the idea you were teaching. Later: Do you remember what we did with [new idea from yesterday]? [Responses from class] Now go to your Journals and click the [name] session to resume it. Do this as often as necessary in different activities until you are sure that the students remember it. Let me know how this works. I used to do this as the very first lesson in teaching adults word processing and text editing. 1. Start program. (Most apps give you an empty document by default. If not, create one.) 2. Save empty file in specified directory with any name. 3. Type something. 4. Save again. 5. Close file, or create new document. 6. Re-open file. 7. Exit program. 8. Find file, and click to resume. On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 03:09, Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.de wrote: Hi, I have observed certain difficulties with the 'resume' and 'start a new' activity concept. At the moment we have the following situation: *** Current Situation: In the Home View you can resume an activity and start a new one. The option to start a new activity is in the palette of the activity icon. A list of last entries from this activity type is present in the palette as well. When you click on the icon with the left mouse button, the last activity is resumed by default. Clicking with the right mouse button on the icon does reveal the activity palette. The activity is revealed after a delay when hovering over the icon, too. Since version 0.86 when you hold the alt-key pressed and click on the activity icon you can start a new activity. This is visually guided by the uncolored activity icon. In the Journal you can resume activities. There is no option to start a new activity from within the Journal. *** Background: I teach a Sugar class of 15 students (5th and 6th grade) in a German primary school [1]. The classes are on a weekly one hour basis. They had 10-15 hours of Sugar by now. We use Sugar 0.84 on Fedora 11. I explained the concept of the Journal, repeated several times how to start a new activity and how to resume one. I explained them that revealing of the palette is quicker when using the right mouse button. *** Disclaimer: The information below is not meant to be hard data. There are differences in backgrounds (cultural etc), ages and quite importantly: a difference between a first time user, a regular user and a daily user. Some might as well question if I have chosen the right methodical way to explain things, and be sure sometimes I do question myself, however the data gathered might be a good basis for discussing this issue and maybe others will provide some data, too. *** Observations: Most of the kids click on the activity icon when they want to start a new activity. Since there is a delay to reveal the palette, the learner does not see the other information in the palette. When they resume a previous activity, and they wanted to start a new one, I have seen learners erasing the previous content and keep on working in that activity. Nearly all the kids do not use the right click to reveal the palette. They wait for it to appear. *** Survey: Last class I asked the learners in a small survey the following questions: A: How do you do a new drawing in TurtleArt? R: Some: Nothing, or did misunderstood the question. Some: I click on TurtleArt. One said: One clicks with the right mouse on TurtleArt and clicks with the left one on New. One said: Go on TurtleArt, wait, click New. A: How do you edit a previous drawing in TurtleArt? R: Many: Go to the Journal and resume there. One: Go to Journal or right click and choose the one one want to resume. One: Go on TurtleArt and choose the name one wants to resume. Some: Nothing / did not understand the question A: Is there a difference between the right mouse click and the left mouse click? R: One: it is quicker to use the right mouse button. Some: you get a new field/list. Many: Nothing / did not understand the question *** Comments: The concept of using the
Re: [Sugar-devel] [DESIGN] 'Resume' vs 'Start a new' Activity
On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 05:39, Gerald Ardito gma...@gmail.com wrote: I am interested in this discussion. I am managing a deployment of 140 XOs/SOAS (mostly XOs) and this issue comes up a lot with the students. A couple of classrooms are just finishing a project with EToys and Resume was a big problem for us. In EToys, you seem to have to rename the project in the Journal. So, every Journal entry says, by default, EToys Project. So, time is lost trying to find the right one (until the students get the naming thing). In my draft guide to Discovery, I am suggesting that teachers explicitly tell students how to name sessions for the first few days, with decreasing guidance as students get the idea. We are going to save our work now. Click the stop sign, everybody. Do you see that the name Etoys Project is highlighted? That means you can just start typing your own name for your session. Type the name [name] in place of EToys Project. Now click OK. Save your work, everyone. Does anybody remember how? Click the Stop icon and give the session a name?, some student asks. Right. Now save your session. What should we call it? Accept a suggestion and write it on the board. Now save your session, and remember-- To name it!! they all shout. The idea of having some Journal icon in the toolbar seems good. I would also appreciate any feedback about EToys. The Tutorials are excellent. Perhaps we could mock up Sugar in Etoys and use the same techniques to teach Sugar controls. Thanks. Gerald On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 2:56 AM, Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.de wrote: On 01/07/2010 05:19 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz wrote: Simon Schampijer wrote: When they resume a previous activity, and they wanted to start a new one, I have seen learners erasing the previous content and keep on working in that activity. This is the purpose of resume-by-default. The idea arose in response to feedback from Uruguay, where students routinely filled their disk. The situation became so severe that, infamously, children in Uruguay began to memorize the shell commands required to erase the Journal by force. I meant that: You click on the turtle in the home screen. Last week you did lesson 1. The kids want to do lesson 2 with has nothing to do with lesson 1. They erase all the blocks they had and begin doing lesson 2. Hence they lost lesson 1. If you are working on systems with larger than 1 GB disks, or students who do not use the machines full-time, then you will of course be far less likely to encounter this problem. This is not to say that I know what the right solution is; I'm not at all sure. Of course, I see the point of limited space, and I am aware of why we choose to have resume by default. The problem I see is unclaerity. Just look at the home screen. Do you know what will happen when you click on one of those icons? What are the expectations. Maybe there are better ways of displaying the options you have in the home view to the user. I guess that is what I am looking for :) Thanks, Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. http://www.earthtreasury.org/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Development
On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 13:50, Mark Symmonds msymmo...@codegladiator.com wrote: Hello! Welcome! I am a freelance developer and LAMP architect with over twelve years experience. I would like to get involved in the OLPC development project where my skills may be of best use. Please let me know if there is anything I can help with. You asked for it, you got it. Here are a few of my skill sets which may be beneficial in the Sugar and Sugar Activity development effort: Languages: Python, Ruby, C++ / C, Java, PHP, Perl Platforms: Linux (any dist. but primarily Fedora and Ubuntu), Free BSD, Windows Python and Fedora Linux are the most broadly useful here, unless you happen to understand Ubuntu and Debian packaging. We would like to encourage a BSD version of Sugar, but we have not heard of anybody starting one. There are pages in the Wiki pointing you to tasks and projects needing help or someone to start them. What parts of education, current or possible in the future, interest you most? Best regards, Mark Symmonds ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. http://www.earthtreasury.org/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Religious/Spiritual Text
On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 09:45, Art Hunkins abhun...@uncg.edu wrote: It has recently been suggested to me that the religious/spiritual text in my OurMusic and OurMusicMC activities may not be well received by some, and that the text may hinder chances for deployment and even potentially cause individuals (or Sugar Labs) trouble. Two concerns. o We are sending Sugar to Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, and (officially) atheist countries, and to populations practicing a wide variety of indigenous polytheisms. Christianity will be taken by many as cultural imperialism, Crusading, or worse, given the history of supposedly Christian imperialist theft, enslavement, and genocide. o We are in a life-and-death fight over Creationism in the US. Demographics says that the Creationists will lose the political and educational fight definitively in the next generation, but why fan the fires? I will leave it to other Christians to criticize your theology in accordance with their own. Needless to say, I'd like to avoid these eventualities if at all possible. You have two choices. You can abandon your Judeo-Christian material, or you can provide equivalent material for Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and atheists. I see on your Web site that you have materials for Judaism, Islam, and multiple kinds of Christianity. A good start. (BTW, I believe that your title YVWH is an error for YHVH. Also that ALPHA ET OMEGA might be better as ALPHA KAI OMEGA. I would also recommend that you look at the Creative Commons license page. You have attempted to specify a set of rights very similar to CC-By Attribution.) I have proposed that we expand the Sword Bible reader to include scriptures of all world religions, since the software is agnostic and only the texts are denominational. I know where Free electronic versions are for most of them. (For perspective on the relevance of this text to me, please see my list of Recent Compositions at www.arthunkins.com. These activities are the final manifestations of a long-term project.) The current text is: A Creation Story: On the sixth day I was created. God said I was very good. On the sixth day We were created - my friends and I. God said We were very good. On the sixth day my Family was created - my loved ones and I, together with all the other creatures. God said my Family was very good. God saw that everything He made was very good. He was so pleased He decided to take a holiday, and joined us in play. I wish Christians would act as though they believed this. As Gandhi is supposed to have said, Christianity is excellent. They should try it. In what is sometimes laughingly known as reality, many Christians believe that your notion could only have applied before the Fall, when there were no children, and that children now are born in a state of Original Sin. A possible alternative text (equivalent, and equally acceptable to me - but expressed in more universal language): One day long ago I was created. Spirit was delighted with me. One day long ago We were created - my friends and I. Spirit was delighted with us. One day long ago my Family was created - my loved ones and I, together with all the other creatures. Spirit was delighted with my family. Spirit, delighted with everything Spirit had made, decided to take a holiday and join us in play. According to the Bible, God was later appalled at his Creation, and decided to wipe out humanity (and leave the world to the fishes). According to Chabad and other versions of Chasidism, this is the ninth world that God created. The previous eight were total failures. According to Buddhism, God is deluded in thinking that he created the universe, when in reality both God and the Universe were the results of pre-existing karma from a previous version. According to a Hindu myth, a column of ants several feet wide and miles long was made up exclusively of reincarnated Kings of Gods. According to a number of dualist religions, material reality is inherently evil, and our aim is to escape from it into the spirit world. I'd greatly appreciate *any and all* comments, especially from those with backgrounds and concerns different from mine. I'm eager to hear from as many of you as are willing to share your views and on-the-ground insights. TIA, Art Hunkins ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. http://www.earthtreasury.org/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Future of Zero Sugar
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 06:09, Daniel Drake d...@laptop.org wrote: On Tue, 2009-12-15 at 06:07 +, Aleksey Lim wrote: * as a 3rd party developer, I don't see such teachers requests listed somewhere on wiki, that let me see what can I do and peek most interesting/suitable-for-my-skils/etc task There's enough going around that you could work on which would be a huge benefit to deployments. Here are a few ideas. [3G, bugs, more] Documentation: there's very little good documentation on how to deploy sugar in a classroom scenario. If you were to start some documentation, not only would it be a huge help for deployments, it would also make you think more about the real-life challenges which may lead to some development projects. I'm working on documentation of the points where children will not be able to discover how Sugar works on their own, and how to integrate demonstrations of those points into lesson plans. See http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/The_Undiscoverable for an early version of the list. My family and I are currently preparing to move house from California to Indiana. After we get settled there, and after the holidays, I plan to finish a draft of this material and circulate it for trials and comments. I would call everybody's attention to the growing movement to replace printed textbooks with electronic learning materials. Significant amounts of grant money are becoming available from the US Government, the Shuttleworth Foundation, Spain, and elsewhere. [more ideas] -- Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. http://www.earthtreasury.org/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] discovering open clip art library
On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 20:12, Christoph Derndorfer christoph.derndor...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 5:31 PM, Bryan Berry br...@olenepal.org wrote: The describtion of their dms is also so short that I'm not sure what to make of it? there are a lot of notes farther down the page But the top of the page clearly says that the section is deprecated. Also the information that is there doesn't contain enough beef for me to understand whether the solution meets our requirements. Plus it doesn't look like it's available anywhere... Take a look at the openclipart package in Ubuntu, and presumably in other distros. The Open Clip Art Library is a collection of 100% license-free, royalty-free, and restriction-free art that you can use for any purpose. Or at these. http://www.freebyte.com/clipart_images_photos_icons/ Christoph -- Christoph Derndorfer co-editor, olpcnews url: www.olpcnews.com e-mail: christ...@olpcnews.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. http://www.earthtreasury.org/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] OT: Thesis: OLPC Evaluation with Usability Engineering
This is wonderful. I have been tackling the problem of Usability from a different direction, Discoverability, as you can see on my Wiki page http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/The_Undiscoverable. I am in the middle of greatly extending that study. I am also, unfortunately, in the middle of moving from California to Indiana, about 2,000 miles/3,000 km. I intend to sort the topics I find according to their dependencies, and work out how to introduce each idea in some context of interest in some subject matter area. I will need my work tested and improved by teachers and students. 2009/11/23 Carlos mauro unima...@gmail.com: Hi friend I invite you to attend the exposition of my thesis OLPC Evaluation with Usability Engineering (Evaluación de la OLPC con Ingeniería de Usabilidad). Tomorrow 24 November at 1pm or 13:00 (GMT -5). Blog: http://unimauro.blogspot.com/2009/11/sustentacion-de-tesis-en-vivo.html Streaming: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/unimauro Abstract: This thesis is a study of the Usability of Software Sugar from the OLPC project. The problem taken the negative expert opinion about the lack of usability studies of the interaction of Sugar with children, the procedure is to evaluate the Sugar, with the method of usability testing conducted at the National School Julio C Tello located in the district of San Juan de Lurigancho in Lima Peru to 12 children between 5 to 7 years in a period of eight months with collecting data from three versions of Sugar and five activities or programs. The revised thesis was with a multidisciplinary work, with elementary school teachers, statistical professionals, developers and virtual communities. The conclusions and recommendations can by cover the void of the lack of usability studies with the their target populations and their object the project: Integrating children excluded from the world by generating wealth from knowledge. Resumen: Esta tesis es un estudio de la usabilidad del software Sugar del proyecto OLPC. El problema tomó la opinión de los expertos negativos por la falta de estudios de usabilidad de la interacción de azúcar con los niños, el procedimiento consiste en evaluar el azúcar, con el método de las pruebas de usabilidad llevado a cabo en la Escuela Nacional de Julio C Tello, ubicado en el distrito de San Juan de Lurigancho en Lima, Perú a 12 niños de entre 5 a 7 años en un período de ocho meses con la recopilación de datos a partir de tres versiones de azúcar y cinco actividades o programas. La tesis fue revisada con un trabajo multidisciplinario, con los maestros de escuela primaria, profesionales de la estadística, los desarrolladores y las comunidades virtuales. Las conclusiones y recomendaciones puede cubrir el vacío de la falta de estudios de usabilidad con las poblaciones meta y objeto del proyecto: La integración de los niños excluidos del mundo mediante la generación de riqueza de conocimiento. -- http://forpapers.blogspot.com/ http://unimauro.blogspot.com/ Creemos en el amor de los Seres Humanos Carlos Mauro Cárdenas Fernández Egresado en Ingeniería de Sistemas 4582877 980525716 ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. http://www.earthtreasury.org/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Testing changes (was Re: RFC: Kill the delayed menus for good)
Nobody has taken up my offer, so it is now dormant until I hear otherwise. I did not intend my suggestions to replace whatever is needed in the meantime. As I said, don't take anything personally. On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 10:14, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote: 2009/11/5 Edward Cherlin echer...@gmail.com: We need at least one more hat (in addition to those described below), which I am willing to put on. Somebody needs to coordinate field testing and feedback, so that we have data to make decisions from, or we can get appropriate data when they are not yet available. It is not enough to have a coordinator, of course. We must have populations of users (various ages, various countries, in some cases various disabilities) approved for testing (at least by themselves, by their teachers, and by any administrators with responsibility for them). We must have people willing and able to install, de-install, and monitor changes. We must have a place to put raw data and results. We may occasionally need a tool built. We seem to have no shortage of ideas, or even patches, but I am willing to hear more on that point. There is more, but that would be sufficient for getting started. If the developers are willing to get their part organized, I will take this question to iaep and grassroots, and to management, and see whether we can get covered at the user end or anything else that people think of. Oh, yes. Experiment designers and the like from Ed schools. Having someone coordinating this area would be of great help, but I'm worried about forgetting that perfect is the enemy of good. As starters, I think we just need to get some opinions from deployers, developers, testers and UI designers and make sure that any technical decision (such as pushing code) is made after taking into account that feedback. Once we have this working, we can start thinking about how to make the feedback we get from those groups more relevant and of more quality. Regards, Tomeu I'm delighted to see these discussions making progress. I have long detested the unfolding hover menus. Keep it up, but please don't take any of it personally. On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 10:44, C. Scott Ananian csc...@laptop.org wrote: On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Michael Stone mich...@laptop.org wrote: ps. I've found the discussion of ideas here much more interesting than the finger-pointing. Understandable; thanks for providing this feedback. Are there specific ideas that have come up in this thread other than the one that Wade supplied that you have found particularly thought-provoking? In general, revisiting the why and attempts to discover different solutions which achieve the original goals. Like Martin Dengler, I find myself convinced all over again when I revisit the original motivation. Real world feedback indicates, however, that the current behavior frustrates some users, despite best laid plans. It's obviously time to return to the why and come up with different ways to accomplish those goals. (Discussion which is simply I want X without a consideration of how this relates to the design goals is much less interesting -- I won't say useless, but it begs for someone to contextualize it and provide the missing rationale before it fits well into the conversation I would like to be having.) Attempts to shift responsibility (it's my patch, YOU have to prove that it's wrong -vs- it's my design, YOU have to prove that it's wrong) are productive/necessary to some degree, but a family matter you guys should take out back somewhere to hash out. Do you have a recommendation on where out back would be? Some other mailing list? Private conversation? If it's a truely personal matter, private email (or some physical location where you can sit down together for a beer). If it's about hashing out a philosophy of participation, then mixing it together with discussion of UI changes is not helping either conversation progress. Sometimes you can't do two things at once, but you can do them separately. I understand you to be saying that we should be listening to people with the experience necessary to have informed opinions. Is this a fair summary of your position? Not necessarily. My position is that there's an interesting UI discussion largely buried in this thread. There's also a community/contribution/patch-approval conversation which I don't have any strong opinion on. Finally, there's a meta-topic revealing some splits within the community which I do have some thoughts on. I am currently working on a(nother) strongly design-oriented bottom-up UI, and it has reminded me that such development *can* work. Having a strongly coherent user story and regular feedback from those users *is* really important. That said, unfiltered user opinions are often short-sighted. You really do need a designer role: some group of people who can keep the overall goals in mind and maintain
Re: [Sugar-devel] Tutorius Demo and Meeting
On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 09:11, Erick Lavoie erick.lav...@gmail.com wrote: As discussed before, Tutorius is a project done by 9 students from Université de Sherbrooke (Québec, Canada) aiming to integrate interactive tutorials inside Sugar to guide Sugar users in learning the platform and its activities. Our goal for december is to be able to cover most of the content of the Floss manual. I have started writing a new manual, tentatively Discovering Discovery on the XO. It is based on the material in my Wiki page, http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/The_Undiscoverable. The introductory material and the first few topics exist in draft form. I am currently sorting obstacles by dependencies. Then I intend to create a sequence of topics in dependency order exploring each obstacle. The intention is to cover everything that an average student will need in order to be able to use all of the Sugar software at grade level. Then we have to work on the topics appropriate for each school subject, and propose a few new subjects that are essential for achieving the Millennium Development Goals, building a functioning society and economy, and rebuilding the environment. We are doing this along 3 axis: Execution: Add the mechanisms needed to Sugar to support execution of tutorials What do you need besides existing activities and programming environments, particularly TurtleArt, Pippy, Scratch, and Etoys? Creation: Provide tools to create tutorials from within Sugar in a GUI environment Same question. Sharing: Provide a platform to share tutorials on the web Definitely. We have shown demos in the past of basic capabilities (in chronological order), here, here and at a presentation given last April. Next Friday, we will hang around on IRC at 13h EST and give a live demo of the current state of the project using Yuuguu or something equivalent, with an execution engine running in a separate process than the activity, an overhauled tutorial creator (still running inside the activity process) and maybe a quick overview of the sharing platform based around the addon sharing platform from Mozilla. We would like to exchange ideas with people and discuss technical matters with the following goals: Receive feedback on the work done so far Discuss the possible integration of our system with Sugar, the SugarLabs sharing platform and the official release cycle Anticipate possible evolutions Exchange ideas and pointers to similar work and papers to inspire ourselves and avoid duplicating research efforts Our team will disband around mid-december, but I'll keep maintaining the project and there might be possibilities for another team of 6-8 people from Université de Sherbrooke to push the project further in January for another year. It would be really exciting to see a collaboration with SugarLabs continue in the future! For those interested in a more technical view of the inner working of the system, see Tutorius Architecture, especially the Component section. See you on IRC on Friday at 13h EST! Erick Lavoie for Tutorius ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. http://www.earthtreasury.org/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [OLPC-SF] Sugar packages for Karmic
If you keep good notes, I will turn them into better documentation than we have now. I have been distressed by the lack of working Ubuntu Sugar packages for the last six months. On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 17:58, Grant Bowman grant...@gmail.com wrote: This is great news! David Farning at Sugar Labs is beginning work on official Ubuntu packages. Grant Bowman https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam -- Forwarded message -- From: David Farning dfarn...@sugarlabs.org Date: Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 12:24 PM Subject: karmic packages available. To: ubuntu-sugarteam ubuntu-sugart...@lists.ubuntu.com Thanks to Alsroot we now have karmic packages available for ubuntu. These packages are available from his ppa at https://launchpad.net/~alsroot/+archive/sugar-0.86 . To install these pachagesjust go into synaptic and add ppa:alsroot/sugar-0.86 to your repository list. It strikes me that Sugar Labs' biggest blocker for adoption is the lack of ubuntu packages. As such I have stepped down from my other roles in Sugar Labs to work on packaging for Ubuntu. My plan is to take Alsroot's root packages and Create official Packages for Ubuntu. I am doing my initial work at https://launchpad.net/~dfarning/+archive/sugar/ Once the packages stabilize, I will move them to https://launchpad.net/~sugarteam/+archive/ppa for wider testing. From there we can move the packages into 9.10 backports. I am very new at Ubuntu packaging so I am intentionally limiting the initial scope. Once the backports are ready, I intend to focus on Sugar .87+ for Ubuntu10.04. Please be patient. This process is probably going to take at least 6 months. I personally need to: 1. Learn ubuntu packaging. 2. Create high quality packages for ubuntu 3. Become a MOTU so we can review and upload new package updates for ourselves. david -- Ubuntu-sugarteam mailing list ubuntu-sugart...@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-sugarteam ___ OLPC-SF mailing list olpc...@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sf -- Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. http://www.earthtreasury.org/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] RFC: Kill the delayed menus for good
I'm extracting some of the for [[The Undiscoverable]]. On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 9:39 AM, Eben Eliason e...@laptop.org wrote: On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 12:04 PM, Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.de wrote: On 10/13/2009 04:36 AM, Bernie Innocenti wrote: Hello, Michael just passed by the Acetarium and, since the dinner was late, we found the time to test and review his latest prototype^W patch. I'm loving how the menus suddenly are now snappy and responsive. Please, test it yourself and report back. If we like this change, I think we should go on and also kill the code that this patch makes redundant. (please, let's not add another configurable knob!) Works for me. I hate hover menus. From 83ef08969ed7bee08f90c12bfa1eedcb7fb0500c Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Michael Stonemich...@laptop.org Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 22:33:12 -0400 Subject: Make various palette animations happen more quickly. Can you describe what the patch will change from the user point of view? Is this to get rid of the delayed build up of palettes when hovering over icons? You can use right click to get the menu immediately. The delay is on purpose. Yes, that's in [[The Undiscoverable]] We should definitely get feedback. I wouldn't be entirely opposed to a change, but I do want to make sure that we make such a change for the right reasons, and that it's actually the right change to make. The initial design intent was to develop a system which worked in a sufficiently complete manner without needing palettes at all. Kids should be able to start activities, resume activities, join activities, write, paint, stop, etc. without ever seeing a palette at all. [1] That's fine, if 1) Everything is discoverable. or 2) Teachers have guidance on what is not discoverable and how to introduce it, and on children's use cases and on how to handle those use cases efficiently. We have neither. I'm working on 2. Anything that improves 1 gets +1 from me. This is the low floor. For kids with more experience or curiosity, we decided to provide contextual palettes which grouped related actions and provided more complex interactions with the system. This is no ceiling. Furthermore, we wanted to help introduce kids to the availability of additional options in a discoverable way, which is why the hover effect was chosen to provide increasing levels of detail and interaction for a given object. Was the discoverability of hover menus tested with children? I didn't discover it, and I'm a born lever puller and button clicker. Finding that many kids were actually waiting for the palette to appear always, instead of, for instance, simply clicking on an activity icon to join it, encouraged us to INcrease the delay on the palettes to help emphasize this as a secondary mechanism for interaction. A case of treating the symptom rather than the ailment. A agree that hovering in one place to click in another isn't great; but that's also not the intended primary means of interaction, and should only really be done when one of the secondary actions is desired. Removing the delay pushes us, I fear, even farther away from an interface in which nice friendly large clickable icons can be directly manipulated and encourages every action to be done through a contextual menu with a bunch of text in it. Is that really what we want kids to face? I don't see the problem. The nice friendly large clickable icons will remain where they are. You either have to create and *demonstrate* a path to *equal* discoverability, or you have to think about helping teachers help children with what they don't discover. Just for fun, I might suggest an alternate possibility which actually decreases the discoverability of the secondary palette. Not my kind of fun. We could reveal the primary palette (label) on a delay as we do now, with some indication of more options that can be clicked to expand the menu to reveal the secondary items. This would provide the (essential) primary palette as a label and introduce kids to the existence of more controls without encouraging them to use this as a primary method of interaction. Advanced users, of course, could still right-click to invoke the full menu in one shot. I don't like to hear children divided into advanced and non-advanced that way. If we get a series of lesson plans together on all of the known non-discoverable elements of Sugar, we should be able to get this difference down to two or three weeks max. Then we can talk about advanced children being the ones who have developed skill in what an Activity is for, not in knobs and blinkenlights. Eben [1] Incidentally, one of my major complaints with the resume by default behavior is that it makes starting new activities hard to do, and virtually impossible to do without using a secondary action, which is the wrong approach in my mind. I want to know what is in the children's minds. I think starting from home, with the
Re: [Sugar-devel] XO emulator for Linux
On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 5:57 AM, Walther Neuper neu...@ist.tugraz.at wrote: Hi Tomeu, thank you for your mail ! You ask: Can you give us some more details about what do you plan to develop and how do you expect it to be deployed? Christoph Derndorfer established a project in Austria, where 25 kids of 8-9 years got XOs in 2008. And our Institute will contribute with a new activity requested by the teacher of these kids http://www.ist.tugraz.at/projects/isac/rp/reckonprimer.html Last summer semester 1 student built a prototype, and there are several students (a selection from those listening cc) who want to contribute to this activity during this winter semester. Time scheduled for this is not much more than 100h, thus it is too short to build up a complicated development environment, and too short for getting familiar with complicated things. Note that you can build materials inside many Sugar Activities, including Turtle Art, Etoys, Scratch, Pippy, the MIDI music apps, and others, and you can build lesson plans around others, including Measure and Record for scientific data acquisition and so on. I will be happy to assist your students in exercising their imaginations in these directions. I am currently designing a gravity/relativity exhibit for a contest organized by The Tech Museum of Innovation in San Jose. Mythbusters just did a show on this very subject, testing whether a bullet fired level from a gun will hit the ground at the same time as a bullet dropped from the same height. This and the fact that the parallel projection of a parabola is a parabola are both aspects of Galilean relativity. http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbusters-simultaneous-bullet-release.html But we would like to have # our repository somewhere at http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/ # a test-driven development, having something like /usr/share/activities/ReckonPrimer.activity /usr/share/activities/ReckonPrimer.tests # ??? presently I have no more ideas what details to mention. Most students have Linux (Ubuntu etc) on their computers, some Windows. Any suggestions are welcome ! Walther PS: About deployment: our present focus is the school teaching the 25 kids mentioned. If our product will turn out interesting for others, we would be even more motivated ! -- Walther Neuper Mailto: neu...@ist.tugraz.at Institute for Software Technology Tel: +43-(0)316/873-5728 University of Technology Fax: +43-(0)316/873-5706 Graz, Austria Home: www.ist.tugraz.at/neuper Tomeu Vizoso wrote: Hi Walther, On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:56, Walther Neuper neu...@ist.tugraz.at wrote: Hi, following the instructions on http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Emulating_the_XO/Quick_Start/Linux leads for Linux users to olpc-redhat-stream-ship.2-devel_ext3.img.bz2 29-Feb-2008 19:49 206M olpc-redhat-stream-ship.2-build-659-20080229_1949-devel_ext3.img.bz2 http://xs-dev.laptop.org/cscott/olpc/streams/ship.2/latest/devel_ext3/olpc-redhat-stream-ship.2-build-659-20080229_1949-devel_ext3.img.bz2 29-Feb-2008 19:49 206M Christoph Derndorfer pointed out, that both are an outdated versions. Where can we get the actual version for Linux ? Or askel more generally: What kind of development environment would you recommend for Linux ? There are many versions of Sugar, and the differences matter depending on what kind of development you want to do. Can you give us some more details about what do you plan to develop and how do you expect it to be deployed? Thanks, Tomeu ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] #606 UNSP: SoaS includes lots of fonts that don't work in Write (Soas2-200903211320)
The fonts in your list that render as tiny letters that all overprint are mainly fixed-size bitmap console fonts that should not be used in a GUI. I don't understand why Lucida Typewriter would have a problem, nor do I understand why only one Lucida font is inclueded in SOAS. The Lucida family of TrueType fonts is usually distributed with Sun Java, in the sun-java6-jre package. Hershey is a family of PostScript fonts for ghostscript. They don't render correctly onscreen in Gnome Character Map on Ubuntu, either. We need to check whether the two failing Symbol and Dingbats fonts are in the correct font format. MT Extra and the math fonts render correctly, but are evidently not Unicode fonts. The cmmi math symbol font is intended to be used without spaces between characters. It is behaving as defined. However, none of these TeX fonts should be on the menu in Write. Aren't they there for MathML in Browse? (BTW, there are some characters missing for MathML). On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 7:18 PM, SugarLabs Bugs bugtracker-nore...@sugarlabs.org wrote: #606: SoaS includes lots of fonts that don't work in Write (Soas2-200903211320) --+- Reporter: garycmartin | Owner: sdz Type: defect | Status: new Priority: Unspecified by Maintainer | Milestone: Unspecified by Release Team Component: SoaS | Version: Unspecified Severity: Unspecified | Keywords: Distribution: SoaS | Status_field: Unconfirmed --+- Just wanted to run through the fonts currently installed in Soas and indicate the ones that render correctly in Write, and the ones that don't. I'm sure OLPC's distro has a set of fonts that all functioned well in Write and very likely supported more language scripts (will go look-up that list following this ticket): Bitstream Charter = good Century Schoolbook L = good Console = tiny letters that all overprint Dingbats = Just Prints Uue Code For All Keys I Tried Fixed = tiny letters that all overprint Hershey-* (all 9 of them) = badly corrupted characters and broken line spacing Lucida Typewriter = tiny letters that all overprint MT Extra = good MiscFixed = tiny letters that all overprint Nimbus Mono L = good Nimbus Roman No9 L = good Nimbus Sans L = good Standard Symbols L = just prints UUE code for all keys I tried URW Bookman L = good URW Chancery L = good URW Gothic L = good URW Palladio L = good Utopia = good cmbx10 = good cmex10 = good cmmi10 = no spaces work cmr10 = good console8x8 = tiny letters that all overprint eufm10 = good msam10 = good msbm10 = good wasy10 = good Times New Roman = good -- Ticket URL: http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/606 Sugar Labs http://sugarlabs.org/ Sugar Labs bug tracking system -- Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar-devel Digest, Vol 11, Issue 89 (SoaS performance/hard drive swapping)
On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 8:49 AM, Bill Bogstad bogs...@pobox.com wrote: As for swap, if you are repurposing discarded machines on any kind of scale you are going to end up with non-functional machines which are a great source of parts. Strip the RAM from the dead machines and upgrade the rest. This is something that even 10-12 year old kids can help with and probably enjoy. If it's part of a project where they get to take the machines home afterwards they will be even more motivated. Don't forget that SoaS makes driveless used computers usable. Right now, the leftovers from installfests all get recycled as scrap. I am thinking about giving students one diskless computer at school and one at home. Bill Bogstad ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Development Bank seminar (was Re: [IAEP] Sugar Digest 2009-09-16)
On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 7:35 PM, Gerald Ardito gerald.ard...@gmail.com wrote: Walter, Your report from the meeting from Washington is inspiring. Particularly, the what are we waiting for. +1 As you know, I am in the process of documenting similar outcomes as part of a doctoral study for a deployment here in the US. But I didn't. Wonderful. What information can you share? I'm talking to Gov. Pat Quinn's office in Illinois about such projects. It would be great, though, to work with these folks to see the bigger picture of what's happening. I also think the total cost of ownership piece is particularly eye-opening. I intend to write a refutation of several armchair analyses done without any notion of in-country costs, like $31/year for public Internet. Gerald On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: Walter, is there a proceedings volume from this meeting? Are there presentations online? The agenda is at http://docs.google.com/gview?a=vq=cache%3AGaKi4FLCAAkJ%3Awww.iadb.org%2Fdocument.cfm%3Fid%3D2139732+%22Pinto+Digiovanni%22hl=engl=uspli=1 Publications referenced? Can we talk with the presenters about, say, MIT Press or FLOSS Manuals putting out a book? Can we see about getting some of these people invited to education, tech, green, and ICT4D conferences in the US and elsewhere to spread the word? (I'm on staff for PyCon. I'll talk to them.) Do you have contact information for the presenters? === Sugar Digest === 1. At the urging of Yama Ploskonka, +1 Thanks, Yama. I went to Washington to the Interamerican Development Bank (IADB) to attend a seminar [http://www.iadb.org/news/detail.cfm?Language=Englishid=5654], “Reinventing the Classroom: Social and Educational Impact of the Incorporation of Technologies” as part of an ICT for education program. The stated workshop objectives were: (i) Understand development experiences and case studies national projects for the integration of Information Technology and Communication in education systems, (ii) Discuss how these projects impact on student learning and in developing countries, and (iii) Share about challenges of evaluation and monitoring initiatives at national and regional levels. My objective was to catch up with people leading the various efforts in the region in order to acquaint them with what we are doing at Sugar Labs. I missed the opening remarks, but was able to attend the panel discussions: one about implementations and one about “lessons and challenges.” It seems that still too many people see ICT as a goal of rather than a means to learning, but it was nonetheless great to get a clearer picture of the various projects in the region. Miguel Brechner, director of LATU and the force behind Project CEIBAL [http://www.ceibal.edu.uy/] in Uruguay, http://www.uruguaydailynews.com/news.php?viewStory=3607 Several Countries Interested Plan Ceibal Posted: Monday, August 17, 2009 11:20 am Governments and universities in several countries are interested in learning about Uruguay’s Plan Ceibal, which distributes free laptops to school children, said the plan’s director Miguel Brechner. Authorities in Colombia, Paraguay, Peru, Haiti and Rwanda expressed interest the program. Brechner recently visited Rwanda to display its achievements. gave a passionate talk about all that they have accomplished. The bottom line: It is possible, so what are the rest of you waiting for? Among Miguel's “Lessons from Uruguay” was a detailed break down of the total cost of ownership across four years: US$ 276. This includes the cost of the laptop, connectivity—every child in Uruguay gets free Internet access ($31/child/year), servers, spares, maintenance, logistics, delivery, operating costs, et al. Uruguay has already distributed 380,000 laptops to more than 2000 schools and trained more than 18,000 teachers. They have 500 support teachers and 1500 support volunteers helping with training and deployment. In terms of evaluation, there has been little opportunity to report any longitudinal assessments of impact of the deployments are relatively recent, but the early indicators are worth noting: * The teachers are driving the change; * There is an increase in attendance; * There is an increase in overall motivation ; * There is more motivation to do homework ; * There is less time spent watching television; * There is an increase in parent involvement ; * There is more motivation to go to school ; * There is an increase in self-esteem ; * There is an increase in interest in learning.; * There is a dramatic drop in repeated grades; * There is an increase in basic skills to use computer; * There is an increased trend to collaboration and sharing ; 220,000 homes now have computers through Project CEIBAL. Computer penetration in the the poorest households exceeds the national average. Jorge Pedreira , deputy minster of educational Portugal described
[Sugar-devel] Negative press (was Re: Sugar Digest 2009-09-11)
Oh, don't fret. How about the good, even overenthusiastic, press (off by one on the version)? ;- XO 2.5 out Fudzilla This newest laptop from OLPC features the VIA C7-M a 1GHz variable speed processor, which can manage full screen video playback, offering faster etoys and and scratch animation, larger offline library and storage capacity, better image capture and remixing and better Java tools. What is also interesting is that the machine was a doddle to overclock and managed a blistering 500 Mhz. OK not that fast but better than a pock in the eye with a short stick. http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/15440/1/ See all stories on this topic: http://news.google.com/news/story?ncl=http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/15440/1/hl=en Anyway, well done. I either comment or send an author query whenever I see such ill-informed articles. On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:55 AM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: === Sugar Digest === 2. There has been a great deal of negative press about One Laptop per Child of late--much of it based on misinformation and poor fact-checking. I decided to respond to one blog [http://www.undispatch.com/node/8859], a particularly disheartening one by Alanna Shaikh on a UN Foundation-sponsored site: I am writing in response to Alanna Shaikh's 9/9/09 article, One Laptop Per Child - The Dream is Over. Not only is the dream not over, the OLPC project has created an opportunity for the pursuit of more dreams by many more people. I was Nicholas Negroponte's partner in founding One Laptop per Child. As Nicholas has elegantly stated in his response to Ms. Shaikh's blog, we spawned the netbook market, which is bringing the price of computing within reach of millions more people. In addition, we launch a free software initiative, Sugar Labs, that is putting educational software into the hands of children. Sugar Labs (www.sugarlabs.org) is an independent outgrowth of OLPC. We are a global community of volunteers—teachers and software developers—whose mission is to bring the advantages of the Sugar learning platform to children everywhere, on any computer. Sugar was designed specially for children and offers a better alternative for young learners than traditional “office-desktop” software. Indeed, nothing in our children's future has anything to do with office work from 30 years ago. Ms. Shaikh is mistaken in her assertion that OLPC has abandoned “the special child-friendly OS.” More than 99% of the OLPC laptops in the hands of children run Sugar. Governments prefer Sugar because of its superior quality, openness, built-in collaboration, easy internationalization and localization to indigenous languages, and unbeatable price (free). Sugar on a Stick, our latest initiative, allows children fortunate enough to have access to a computer at school, in the community, at home (or only the occasional access to a computer in an Internet café) to benefit from Sugar with a simple USB stick, which costs less than US $5. Sugar on a Stick runs on netbooks, but it also runs on hand-me-down computers, typical of those found in schools, that can only limp along running Windows. We invite you to contact as we will be pleased to answer any of your questions about Sugar, the free learning platform used in schools every day in countries around the world. -- Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] updates and testing SocialCalc on the Sugar Live CD
I ran through all of the basic functions of SocialCalc, including every icon on every tab. I have tested some but not all of the 109 functions provided, with good results so far. Although there are functions I could wish for, the only real deficiency I have found is in the documentation. I have created a page for elements of Sugar that children are not likely to discover on their own, http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/The_undiscoverable. I recommend it to developers who want to think about whether more of Sugar can be made discoverable, or whether we need to write lesson plans for the features that cannot be made obvious to the novice. I will put in a section for SocialCalc. These are not bugs in the sense of incorrect behavior or missing explanations, so I omit them here. Here is a summary of the other issues I have encountered. o The database functions are severely underdocumented. What database? What are databaserange, fieldname, criteriarange? o Where does Paste Formats get its formats from? o What does Swap Colors do? o The financial and statistical function definitions in the Help might be clear to one who uses other spreadsheets a lot, but certainly are not to a beginner. o More explanation is needed on angles in degrees and radians. o I understand Move From and Move Paste, but not Move Insert. o I see how to set names, but not what to use them for or how. o I don't see the Sheet setting control on the Format tab that the Help refers to. o I found the OK and Sort... buttons on the Sort tab confusing. It has since become clear to me. Perhaps OK should be renamed Set Range. Not bad for a beta. On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 12:16 PM, Manusheel Guptam...@laptop.org wrote: Dear community members, We are preparing for the next release of SocialCalc on Sugar. Localization infrastructure, canonicalization of the save format and collaboration will be the key features available in the next release. We are also looking forward to develop interoperability between SocialCalc format and a number of other spreadsheet formats like .wk3/.wk4/csv/excel/open office spreadsheet. We have recently received a number of requests on developing interoperability between SocialCalc and .wk3/.wk4 format, which has been a challenging problem to work on. Hope to get this feature ready before the next release. Lately, I have been testing SocialCalc on the Sugar Live CD, and have run into issues. I can't seem to get SocialCalc to start. I fired up the Sugar LiveCD, and opened up the USB icon in my journal. I can see the file SocialCalc.xo on my USB stick. When I click on it, I get a start button, but then nothing happens. Below is a gears image, which starts something that looks like a developer interface. Not sure, where I have been going wrong. Any help on this issue is highly appreciated. Please visit the SocialCalc on Sugar page at http://seeta.in/j/products-and-services/socialcalc-on-sugar.html. The activity is available for download both from the SEETA website (http://seeta.in) and from activities.sugarlabs.org. If you have any questions, or would like to add suggestions/comments/feature requests, please do so here. Thank you for your continued support. Regards, Manu ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] updates and testing SocialCalc on the Sugar Live CD
On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 6:39 PM, Dan Bricklind...@bricklin.com wrote: Edward, Thanks for doing the testing. Here are some answers to some of the questions you asked or things you found undocumented. Thanks. I believe that you are right in your comments below, that the Open Document spec, manuals for other software, and your video will enable us to create an excellent manual at FLOSSManuals.net. Would you like to join us when we do the Book Sprint? I am thinking about what we might add to the Help in SocialCalc, allowing for the tradeoff between space and completeness. Adding links to existing documentation will provide a sufficient backstop, but I think that there are several places where just a few words will make all the difference for beginning SocialCalc users, particularly for harried teachers. I don't want to make them learn too much themselves, or to have to tell children to rely too much on external resources. I'm sure that we can find a suitable balance on these questions. The database functions, like all of the functions, are pretty much the same as the functions by the same name in Excel and many other spreadsheets (many going back to Lotus 1-2-3 and even sometimes VisiCalc). They are defined in the Open Document Format specification. The same is true of all of the financial functions. (There used to be an Open Formula specification, which I think got moved into Open Document Format. I coded the functions looking to the Open Formula specification.) The built-in SocialCalc doc does not provide more than the simple explanation for all functions to save space and since they are well documented with other spreadsheets. Of course, our target users (students and teachers) do not have local access to this other software. But we can put it into a manual. Most of the SocialCalc documentation is about what is special to SocialCalc. Also, the code itself documents what it does, including, with the financial functions, a reference to the Wikipedia entry that helped in their specification. I assumed that others can read that to produce appropriate written documentation. As a mathematician and programmer, I can, if necessary. (I think there is a reported issue that SocialCalc's IF function only takes the 3 argument form, not the 2 argument form. It also evaluated all arguments unlike many other IF functions.) The toolbar buttons, including the two types of move and swap colors, as well as the sheet settings, names, and more are explained in a video I created. The 54 minute Flash video, created with Camtasia, goes over many of the features of the main SocialCalc engine that the Sugar version of SocialCalc is built upon. (For example, that version does not have the Sugar-specific graphing tab.) You can view the video at: http://www.peapodcast.com/sgi/socialtext/sctraining1/ Perfect. I'll report on that soon. Note that the value format specification language, used to define numeric formatting, is similar to that used in most spreadsheets, including Excel. Right. I didn't have any trouble with it. You can learn much of it by looking at the samples already built into the product (set a format and the choose Custom to see the definition). This can be used when customizing the product for other locales to, for example, have different currency symbols and placement. Custom formats are demonstrated in the video. I tried it in Cyrillic briefly without problems, but I cannot type other currency symbols such as € or £ within Sugar. I will have to do much more language and locale testing. Thanks again for taking time to work with SocialCalc so we can help provide this functionality around the world through this platform. -DanB Edward Cherlin wrote: I ran through all of the basic functions of SocialCalc, including every icon on every tab. I have tested some but not all of the 109 functions provided, with good results so far. Although there are functions I could wish for, the only real deficiency I have found is in the documentation. I have created a page for elements of Sugar that children are not likely to discover on their own, http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/The_undiscoverable. I recommend it to developers who want to think about whether more of Sugar can be made discoverable, or whether we need to write lesson plans for the features that cannot be made obvious to the novice. I will put in a section for SocialCalc. These are not bugs in the sense of incorrect behavior or missing explanations, so I omit them here. Here is a summary of the other issues I have encountered. o The database functions are severely underdocumented. What database? What are databaserange, fieldname, criteriarange? o Where does Paste Formats get its formats from? o What does Swap Colors do? o The financial and statistical function definitions in the Help might be clear to one who uses other spreadsheets a lot, but certainly are not to a beginner. o More explanation
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Sugar Digest 2009-09-03
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Walter Benderwalter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: === Sugar Digest === 1. The car allowance rebate system (CARS), more commonly known as the “Cash for Clunkers” program, was used to bail out the US auto industry. People who had purchased gas guzzlers were rewarded with $4500 towards the purchase of a more fuel-efficient car. Of course there was no subsidy for those of us who commute by bicycle—I could use some new panniers. Maybe it is time to bail out the US education industry. When will the US government announce the Sugar for Clunkers? It would work a bit differently than the car program in that with Sugar, there is no need to subsidize the purchase of replacement hardware—we'll have to find another program to bail out the computer industry. Simply replace the clunker software that most schools are using—Windows 2000 or Windows XP—with Sugar. Sugar is, of course, free—as in speech and as in beer. Any government subsidy could go towards teacher workshops. “Yes we can!” Education Secretary Arne Duncan has been going on about the $90 billion for education in the stimulus bill. Have you looked? -walter -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) i...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] The ARM is near
2009/8/29 Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org: Ok, so the idea is to focus our resources on the distribution level? I'm not very fond of that because: - polishing a distribution is _lots_ of work. Canonical, Novell, Redhat, etc. are putting lots of resources into there. I think that a small set of people can take one of those distros and make it work better for a specific use case, but we aren't going to outrun the big players in a generic, polished distro. Does that mean we should be talking to these organizations about a commitment of resources commensurate with a target user base of a billion children? -- Edward Mokurai Cherlin Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name, and Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] FSF attitude to xo and sugar
I am in personal contact with Stallman (rms) on this. Who else here knows him? We have met several times at computing events, and discussed other questions in e-mail. I was a factor in his choice of the XO as his main computer, which unfortunately lasted only a short time, because he was unaware that Nicholas had Mitch working on a GPLed BIOS replacement. rms is talking nonsense still, but there remains the possibility of progress. I'll let you know more if I hear anything positive. Our correspondence will appear in OLPC News as an Open Letter with whatever followup is appropriate. I have looked through the rest of this thread. I don't have time to reply in detail, but I have raised all of these issues with rms, and asked him why he won't take Yes for an answer. ^_^ You should understand that _we_, all of us, have failed to communicate with the public, with the press, and with our natural allies. It isn't just Nicholas. We need a way to put out press releases when Nicholas says something dumb, or the Wall Street Journal runs a completely false op-ed about our work. We should be able to get a pro bono account at PR Newswire or some such service. On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 2:33 AM, Bill Kerrbillk...@gmail.com wrote: n Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 7:20 AM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: === Sugar Digest === 4. The recent FSF campaign condemning the use of Windows 7 in education (See http://windows7sins.org/) imputes OLPC in complicity with Microsoft. It is disappointing that the FSF is not making any constructive arguments in favor of free software alternatives to Windows such as Sugar on GNU/Linux, which is currently shipped on every machine distributed by OLPC. http://windows7sins.org/#1 When I first saw it I interpreted that page as contrasting the xo as a positive alternative to Windows (and still think that is a valid interpretation) When I read what walter wrote above later I was shocked to realise that it could indeed be interpreted the way walter has, as well On revisiting I can't see any clarifying text there If walter's interpretation is the correct one, which may well be true, then it's a bad choice of graphic - they should have shown windows running on the xo screen, not happy smiling children from this 2008 article RMS is supportive of sugar but ambivalent about the xo: Sugar is free software, and contributing to it is a good thing to do. But don't forget the goal: helpful contributions are those that make Sugar better on free operating systems. Porting to Windows is permitted by the license, but it isn't a good thing to do http://www.fsf.org/blogs/rms/can-we-rescue-olpc-from-windows ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) i...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Edward Mokurai Cherlin Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name, and Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Who's interested in testing a new installer for SoaS?
I can test in several distros in VirtualBox. On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 9:00 AM, Sebastian Dziallassebast...@when.com wrote: Hi everybody, I'm looking for some volunteers to test the hard disk installation with the latest SoaS snapshot and newly designed installer. Since this upstream project is really in the early stages of development but also concerns a pretty critical part of SoaS, I'd prefer getting some testing before throwing it in a snapshot and possibly breaking stuff. If you're interested and aware of the risk, please drop me a line. Thanks, --Sebastian ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) i...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Reviving the Deployment Team
On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Caroline Meekssolutiongr...@gmail.com wrote: Let me know how I can help! Likewise. Thanks, CAroline On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:47 PM, David Farning dfarn...@sugarlabs.org wrote: It looks like we have enough sustainable contributors to revive the Deployment team! The existing deployment team information is at http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Deployment_Team . I would like to begin by slightly narrowing the deployment teams mission to: The mission of the Deployment Team is to enable Sugar deployments to participate fully in the Sugar community by organizing forums for the exchange of experience and needs between Sugar users and Sugar developers. Once these tasks are well under way we can expand the mission as needed. Maria del Pilar Saenz of SugarLabs Colombia has offered to be the initial co-ordinator for the team. Maria is both close to deployments and quite articulate and knowledgeable about our high-level goals. Over the next couple of weeks, I hope we can revisit the team's roadmap, resources, and TODO list to start minimizing the communication barriers between deployments and developers. In order, to get this started Tomeu has mentioned that he is willing to shift his Sugar Labs time from working on new features to fixing bugs. david ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) i...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove carol...@solutiongrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) i...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Reviving the Deployment Team
On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 4:37 PM, David Farningdfarn...@sugarlabs.org wrote: The first step, from the implementation, side is going back to the basics; focusing on easy technical bugs and easy usability bug. The goal is establishing respect and trust between the deployment team and the developer team. This is good, all of it. We also need to consider creation of content, not just software. Actually, we have to think about something in between static content and Activities--something that can represent lesson plans, projects, and the like, with the ability to draw on any of Sugar. Models built in Turtle Art or Etoys connected with observations; data sets with processes attached for data extraction, analysis, visualization, and so on; interactive explorations of various kinds; frameworks for guided discovery. We are going to be making a lot of this up as we go along, so we need ways to validate our work in the classroom and get feedback for improvement. If we reflect on went well and what did not go so well last year. Not so well: We lost some of the passion because we focused on 'nut and bolts' rather than big ideas. We lost contact with students, teachers, and deployers by focusing on the platform. Well: Built core community which practices constructionism. The release cycle is fundamentally a constructionism cycle. As a community, we come up with feature requests, technical shortcomings, and usability shortcomings. Then, thorough collaboration on the mail lists we came up with testable solutions. After a release, there is a period of reflection on how well those solutions worked. Established a strong culture of mentoring over telling, leading over managing, _doing_ what we can do over _talking_ about what we should do. Established a culture of participation over producer/consumer. Looking forward: Use what worked well to make progress on the parts of the project which did not work so well. High level-- try to create a deployment team which shares the overall mission, vision, values, and culture of Sugar Labs. Concrete step to make this happen: 1. If you are at a deployment please start sending bug reports about minor issues. 2. If you are not at a deployment please act as a bridge between deployments and developers. 3. Everyone can monitor Sur, ieap, and sugar-dev; whenever you see a issue come in please engage the reporter to help him or her turn the issue into a good bug report. Reporting minor issue might seem counter intuitive when looking at it from a bang-for-buck pov. But, from a community pov minor issues are easy to report, easy to turn into bug reports, and often easy to fix. By starting small we can learn and gain confidence that the process we are creating work. Once we have confidence in the process we turn 100% of our energies towards solving those hard problems. hope that helps david On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Edward Cherlinecher...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Caroline Meekssolutiongr...@gmail.com wrote: Let me know how I can help! Likewise. Thanks, CAroline On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:47 PM, David Farning dfarn...@sugarlabs.org wrote: It looks like we have enough sustainable contributors to revive the Deployment team! The existing deployment team information is at http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Deployment_Team . I would like to begin by slightly narrowing the deployment teams mission to: The mission of the Deployment Team is to enable Sugar deployments to participate fully in the Sugar community by organizing forums for the exchange of experience and needs between Sugar users and Sugar developers. Once these tasks are well under way we can expand the mission as needed. Maria del Pilar Saenz of SugarLabs Colombia has offered to be the initial co-ordinator for the team. Maria is both close to deployments and quite articulate and knowledgeable about our high-level goals. Over the next couple of weeks, I hope we can revisit the team's roadmap, resources, and TODO list to start minimizing the communication barriers between deployments and developers. In order, to get this started Tomeu has mentioned that he is willing to shift his Sugar Labs time from working on new features to fixing bugs. david ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) i...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove carol...@solutiongrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) i...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin)
Re: [Sugar-devel] What is your favorite application for use in CS classes?
1) I am currently working on CS, math, and science lessons for primary school classes based on Turtle Art in Sugar education software, originally for the OLPC XO but now available for multiple versions of Linux. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activities/Turtle_Art http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/File:Gravity.odt Tile-based programs click together to create program trees independent of any linear text-based programming languages, thus eliminating syntax errors. In conventional programming, the user is two levels (lexical analysis, parse) away from the parse tree that the compiler uses for semantic transformations and code generation. A further advantage is that tiles have different kinds of connectors, preventing type mismatches between Booleans used in flow control, text or numeric values, and program steps. Tile-based programming is also available in Etoys (Smalltalk), Scratch (Multimedia) and other software. 2) We are not yet ready to use the Parrot VM as a foundation for CS at a higher level. At some point it will make it fairly easy to implement a wide range of dynamic languages, by providing the foundations such as on-the-fly garbage collection, concurrency and object structures. This will allow language designers to work at a higher level. Current trial versions of languages are available from http://www.parrot.org/languages. 3) My principal interests in CS are in making clear how wide the range of useful languages and models of computation is, what their foundations are in mathematics, and how to turn complex mathematical ideas into readily-applied language features, libraries, and the like (where possible). I follow AI researcher Marvin Minsky. You don't understand anything until you learn it more than one way. Most programmers have almost no exposure to these concepts, and most CS researchers restrict themselves to a very small range of models. I have not yet had a chance to try out Oz and Mozart, which are designed to expose multiple models of computation, so I can't say yet whether they will become favorites. See Concepts, Techniques, and Models of Computer Programming, by Peter Van Roy and Seif Haridi. On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 3:36 PM, Sebastian Dziallassebast...@when.com wrote: No matter what it is, please tell us! Why? Because we in Fedora's Education SIG [1] are looking for ways to make your life easier. We are currently working on a development environment both for students and teachers, to give them an easy start into open source communities. The very first version has been announced and distributed for POSSE [2] and we're now looking for ways to improving it. So if you've any application you're excited about, please let us know! Thanks, --Sebastian [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Education_SIG [2] https://fedorahosted.org/education/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] GPA Class Notes July 22 - GS
On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 11:58 AM, Greg Smithgregsmit...@gmail.com wrote: Hi All, I posted the full notes here: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Gardner_Pilot_Academy#Class_notes Thanks. Three high level points: - Kids have no trouble finding new activities (e.g. Write) and they want to have more to use. - Its still hard to task switch (we may try teaching them alt - tab next week), find thing son the journal and move data from one activity to another. I'm putting tips like that on [[The undiscoverable]]. That brings up the question of how they can tag the items they want to easily find them later. That is, as they look around on Wikipedia or elsewhere and find text and images they want to use, how do we collect them and show them (and only them) on a clean journal view later. It's clumsy, but after you save an image file you can go to the Journal to change the title in the main Journal view, and add a description and one or more tags in the detail view. Then you can search in the Journal for a tag, and get a list of titles. Downloaded images do not show a preview. This is a bug. The workaround is to open the file and quit the session immediately. You will want to work out a reasonably efficient workflow. For example, o Save lots of images. o Go to the Journal, and open and save each image. o Now that you can see a preview of each image, go into each preview and edit the metadata. I recommend having a separate lesson on images in the Journal before you undertake a project using downloaded images. URLs and downloaded images are very hard to find in the Journal. We should use the URL name (not sure of the right technical term but I mean the short name you see in browsers, e.g. www.google.com appears as Google. That's Title in HTML, but it's the title of the page. Unfortunately for your idea, images on Web pages usually don't have titles of their own. That or anything that is more intelligible than what you see by default. Will file a bug when I have a chance unless someone beats me to it. I welcome any suggestions on tagging and collecting items. I believe its just careful use of tagging and filtering but details on expected work flow can save us some time. Thanks, Greg S ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity as regular objects proposal
On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 11:39 PM, Daniel Draked...@laptop.org wrote: 2009/7/28 Aleksey Lim alsr...@member.fsf.org: The problems that 0.84 has in case of activity versions are: * it can't upgrade activities if they were pre-installed from native packages; it makes process of upgrading activities from .xo impossible In reality Sugar's message is confusing here and I don't think any distributor will mix-and-match the two ways of installing activities. (either they'll use distro packages and disable .xo, or they will exclusively use .xo e.g. OLPC). Sugar on a Stick currently presents this problem, where stock Activities are installed from packages, but I can use .xos for anything else. I found that I could go to the Activities directory, delete a preinstalled Activity directory, and install a later version by downloading. I wrote this up on [[The undiscoverable]]. Daniel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] GPA Class Notes July 22 - GS
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 5:44 AM, Greg Smithgregsmit...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Gary, Thanks for the comments and follow up! Addressing two points below from two of your responses: 1 - Name in Journal of file saved from browse I may have mixed two issues. This one is not tagging. The work flow for this is as described in lesson #2 here: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Gardner_Pilot_Academy#Social_Studies_and_History After saving a file from wikipedia then opening Memorize and clicking to load an image from the journal, the files are hard to find in the journal, especially if you saved a couple of them. The journal shows something like: http:/nnn.nn.nn [image size] [more text]. Its just hard to see which one is Texas and which California.Maybe it an issue with interpreting the URL wikipedia uses. It would be better if we could name the journal entry with say the alternate tex (e.g. Map of the United States with Massachusetts highlighted) but that may not be good in all cases. I'll get the exact syntax of what the Journal shows and try to figure out why its hard to interpret tomorrow. A thumb nail of any images would be very helpful too. Workaround: Save file(s) in Browse. Go to Journal. No previews (Ticket #1106), so open and quit each image to create them. Looking at each preview, edit Title, Description, Tags. There is no agreed scheme for naming files on the Web or for alt-text contents, so there is no automatic way to generate a meaningful name for a download. It might be possible to find a solution for just Wikipedia. For example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map_of_USA_CA.svg Thanks, Greg S Regards, --Gary ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] New activity Graph
On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 1:44 AM, Xenofon Papadopoulosxpa...@gmail.com wrote: I have added a new activity I'm working on to the git repository, name is Graph, it is plotting graphs of 1st and 2nd degree polynomials. Have you seen the plot() function in Calculate? It can plot a wide range of expressions. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/The_undiscoverable/Calculate I have a program in Turtle Art that can graph any Python numeric expression, using one of Walter Bender's programmable tiles. Screenshot attached. It is (initially) being developed for the students of a high school in the Greek village of Sminthi, where some XO-1s will be deployed in a couple of months. Since I am new to sugar programming, any comments would be welcome. There is a wiki setup at http://olpc-gr.wikia.com/wiki/Graph_Activity and a small demo (text in Greek) at http://umbra.edu.teiath.gr/olpc/graph.htm ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) preview Description: Binary data ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Cannot resume/install .xo bundles in Journal
On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 12:24 AM, Aleksey Limalsr...@member.fsf.org wrote: On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 12:19:52AM -0700, Edward Cherlin wrote: The Wiki entry http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Journal_Activity#Installing_activities says .xo bundles that are downloaded from the Browse activity are stored in the Journal. By resuming the activity from the Journal entry will both launch it and install it on the taskbar. However, Resume does not appear in the menu for any .xo bundle I have downloaded to the Journal. Is there something I'm missing? Do you have any version of downloaded activity in /usr? 0.84(and current 0.86) can't install .xo in that case. Yes, it's in /usr/share/activities. So what should I do? I can't delete it from the Home view, either. Should I do that through Terminal? Will the Resume item appear on the menu? -- Aleksey -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Duplication of Effort: Don't do it.
On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 10:38 AM, Benjamin M. Schwartzbmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I have lately seen a lot of duplication of effort in Sugar. I think this is bad. The success of Sugar demands discipline and careful planning from its developers. In particular, I am arguing that supporting Qt or Webkit would be a terrible idea, and that neither should be permitted to be a dependency of the Sugar platform. However, my argument is certainly more general. 1. Bloat is bad. Efficiency is one of the main goals of Sugar. Sugar was created to fulfill a vision of the original Hundred Dollar Laptop Project: We will get the fat out of the system. Today's laptops have become obese. Two-thirds of their software is used to manage the other third, which mostly does the same functions nine different ways. [1] It's true. 99.99% of all deployed computers running Sugar are XO-1's, and will soon be XO-1.5's. These are strongly resource-constrained machines, and they cannot tolerate inefficiency in the use of disk, CPU, or RAM. Outside of OLPC, we continue to target low-end hardware where efficiency is key. If we allow Read to depend on Webkit, but Browse uses Gecko, then to use them both, the operating system must load two entirely separate rendering engines into memory. On an XO-1 this may be impossible; it will certainly lower the threshold for OOM behavior. Similarly, loading both the Qt and GTK libraries into memory at once dramatically increases memory usage, and wastes valuable disk space. Don't do it. I can see the points on both sides of this issue. Putting on my market research hat, I evaluate possible futures for XOs on the basis of a four-year lifetime. Many XOs will be replaced after three years, but it would be a problem to leave children on an XO-1 for five years. Nevertheless, XO-1s will not simply disappear when replaced in the classroom. Some will be put to use by other people, perhaps pre-schoolers, or may be put into data acquisition and control applications such as environmental monitoring, irrigation, and the like. So we can certainly raise the floor on core Sugar capabilities with at most a four-year delay from any Moore's law increment in capacity and speed. In that context, I would say not to add any large frameworks to the core until we and the countries agree that everybody will have room for them. On the other hand, if an activity would require functions not present in Sugar as it is now, I don't mind introducing new package dependencies that would not have to be on every XO. I would still argue that those should be kept to a minimum. If it's a necessity, fine. If it's a nice-to-have, maybe not. Any argument about recruiting developers should focus on educational needs, not maybes. So let's hear from those who want to bring in Qt. o What specifically does it let us do that we can't do now? o What does that add for the education mission? o Would we be better off adding those functions within gtk, say by modifying a Python library for Qt? -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] TuxPaint and saving to journal (Was: Duplication of effort)
If those who know where things are and how things work are willing, we can create proper Sugar API documentation. I'll help. On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Ton van Overbeektvoverb...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Luke Faraonel...@faraone.cc wrote: On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 19:36, Ton van Overbeek tvoverb...@gmail.com wrote: I need the low-level dbus interface to the journal (or glib-dbus interface). This does not seem to be documented anywhere. Isn't http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_DBus_API#Keeping_and_Resuming what you want? Yes, but it was/is not clear to me if this up-to-date. I also would have hoped/expected that this type of information would be available on wiki.sugarlabs.org instead of wiki.laptop.org. Anyway, for keeping/resuming I would need the equivalent C/C++ interface, but by following the python code I can probably figure it out. (Tried to look at Etoys, but I do not fancy to leam smalltalk ;-)) Ton ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] TuxPaint and saving to journal (Was: Duplication of effort)
Actually, I see Sugar API documentation at http://api.sugarlabs.org/ including Module dbus_helpers. Does this help? On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 5:29 PM, Edward Cherlinecher...@gmail.com wrote: If those who know where things are and how things work are willing, we can create proper Sugar API documentation. I'll help. On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Ton van Overbeektvoverb...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Luke Faraonel...@faraone.cc wrote: On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 19:36, Ton van Overbeek tvoverb...@gmail.com wrote: I need the low-level dbus interface to the journal (or glib-dbus interface). This does not seem to be documented anywhere. Isn't http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_DBus_API#Keeping_and_Resuming what you want? Yes, but it was/is not clear to me if this up-to-date. I also would have hoped/expected that this type of information would be available on wiki.sugarlabs.org instead of wiki.laptop.org. Anyway, for keeping/resuming I would need the equivalent C/C++ interface, but by following the python code I can probably figure it out. (Tried to look at Etoys, but I do not fancy to leam smalltalk ;-)) Ton ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Language control panel broken: Chinese + Russian displayed
On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 2:58 AM, Tomeu Vizosoto...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 01:54, Edward Cherlinecher...@gmail.com wrote: There are serious bugs in language switching in My Settings (the Sugar Control Panel). Would be better to track each of these issues in individual tickets at dev.sugarlabs.org. I filed four separate bugs on Language setting issues. #1080 My Settings: Language setting does not always take #1081 Mixed languages in Sugar UI #1082 Control Panel/Language: Add button not available in English #1083 Control Panel/Language: Cannot set to current selection on multiple menus. -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Language control panel broken: Chinese + Russian displayed
Your supposition turns out to be incorrect. (below) On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 5:35 AM, Sayamindu Dasguptasayami...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 3:28 PM, Tomeu Vizosoto...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 01:54, Edward Cherlinecher...@gmail.com wrote: There are serious bugs in language switching in My Settings (the Sugar Control Panel). Would be better to track each of these issues in individual tickets at dev.sugarlabs.org. Will do. One is that switching to a language can result in bits of some other language appearing, and switching back does not necessarily restore the original language entirely. I have attached a portion of a screen shot showing mixed Russian and Chinese, even though English is set. Maybe these languages have poor 0.84 coverage and you have set them one on top of another so when a string is not found in a language, it tries to find it in the other one? I forgot to mention that I got this without setting Chinese at any time. Yes - I think that is the likely explanation. Also, if you add another language menu with the button provided, and select two different languages on them, it is not obvious how to switch. It turns out that clicking on the menu showing the desired language, and reselecting the displayed selection, is not interpreted as a request to change languages. It appears to be necessary to select something else, and then go back and select the language desired. Third, the + button sometimes disappears. Not sure about these two, perhaps Sayamindu can comment. Please file a bug for the second one with exact steps to reproduce (eg: with example language names, etc) Regarding #3, I think the + button will disappear when you choose English(USA), since English (USA) does not have any translation (as in translations in PO files) and will invariably cause a fallback to the second language. Are there any other cases where you are seeing this ? That's true. But now I have a new symptom. I changed to Russian. No problem. I changed to English (USA). Now it displays Russian, but claims to be in English. And the + button has disappeared. OK, I'm off to Trac now. I will provide screenshots for each bug. Thanks, Sayamindu -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Language control panel broken: Chinese + Russian displayed
There are serious bugs in language switching in My Settings (the Sugar Control Panel). One is that switching to a language can result in bits of some other language appearing, and switching back does not necessarily restore the original language entirely. I have attached a portion of a screen shot showing mixed Russian and Chinese, even though English is set. Also, if you add another language menu with the button provided, and select two different languages on them, it is not obvious how to switch. It turns out that clicking on the menu showing the desired language, and reselecting the displayed selection, is not interpreted as a request to change languages. It appears to be necessary to select something else, and then go back and select the language desired. Third, the + button sometimes disappears. -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) attachment: Chinese-Russian-UI.png___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Share sugar objects on a standalone server
On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Aleksey Limalsr...@member.fsf.org wrote: Hi all, One of lacks that sugar environment has is simple way to share sugar objects for broad audience i.e. like scratch community has[1] (thanks to davidmorris form #sugar). Yes, teachers and content developers need this, in addition to children. I can of course transfer objects from the file system, but then I have randomly named objects. I have to either rename them manually, or create a browser to read the metadata files. (Good idea, anyway. The Journal doesn't count, because you have to look at a separate screen for every entry's data.) So, I've created [2]. Original idea was having highly integrated sharing features into sugar shell but looks like we can do simple things first and even utilize only Browse for browsing/download/upload sugar objects. The problem is - what web engine we should use. * Utilize AMO[3] engine which is used in activities.sugarlabs.org in that case we can create something like library.sugarlabs.org to not mess it with ASLO * School Server * Moodle * ... Suggestions are welcome. [1] http://scratch.mit.edu/ [2] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Server_Objects_Sharing [3] https://addons.mozilla.org/ -- Aleksey ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) i...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Empty HTML from Turtle Art
I have tried saving to HTML in several versions of Turtle Art up through 51, but have gotten only HTML files with empty bodies. body /body Is the code there? -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] Turtle Art-54
On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 7:49 AM, Sugar Labs Activitiesactivit...@sugarlabs.org wrote: Url: http://activities.sugarlabs.org/addon/4027 Release notes: http://activities.sugarlabs.org/addon/4027#release-notes There is nothing in the Release Notes. Version 54 — July 13, 2009 — 3,330 KB What was changed? Reviewer comments: Trusted activity Sugar Labs Activities http://activities.sugarlabs.org ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Initial implementation of toolbars design
On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 7:24 AM, Walter Benderwalter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: One comment re Write toolbars: there are numerous reports from the field that we don't support bulleted lists, et al. I think the pull-down menu on the style tab is not discoverable (in fact pulldown menus in general in Sugar are difficult for people). I'll add those to [[The undiscoverable]]. I think part of the problem is that when unformatted text is selected the menu appears with only one item visible: None. Unless the user notices the little up arrowhead and moves the cursor up to reveal the rest of the menu, Styles remain a mystery. Is there some reason why we don't show the whole menu with the current style highlighted? This would mean not having Heading 1 pop up right under the cursor. Which pull-down menus in other activities have problems? Be great to turn those options into buttons. -walter -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Nobody understands Keep
On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 2:28 AM, Tomeu Vizosoto...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 05:41, Eben Eliasone...@laptop.org wrote: On Thu, 2009-07-09 at 10:45 +0100, Martin Dengler wrote: On Thu, Jul 09, 2009 at 09:52:23AM +0100, Daniel Drake wrote: Nobody in the world seems to understand the Keep button. People think it's for regular saving and you should do it before you close or switch away from your activity. As far as I understand it, Keep is useful for these types of scenarios: - you've done a lot of work but now it's time to refactor/reorganize the whole thing. However you want to keep a copy of the rough version you have now, as insurance or perhaps for reference while you re-mangle the work. - you've made a template for something, now you want to save that template (as a blank template) before starting on a version where you fill in the content. I use Keep in Turtle Art when I am building multiple programs that I want to use in lessons. When I have one working as I want, I click Keep. Then I can edit the program to create something related, or toss it and start fresh. It makes sense to Keep the framework for a project as a template, so that you don't have to start fresh each time, and you don't forget any of the bits. There are other use cases. I urge again that keep a copy is not what is intended, in the long run. Without proper versions, of course, this is effectively how it behaves. Therefore, it's no surprise many saw it this way. But with versions, the keep button is actually a keep new version button. As mentioned before, a new version retains the tree_id, whereas a true copy does not. But are you meaning that we should name the current one Keep a copy and when we have versions add Keep? I don't think that the name is the problem. This needs to be added to the list of things that aren't inherently discoverable, where we should help the teachers to know when and how they can show their students the extra power available to them. I have started a Wiki page for such things, [[The undiscoverable]]. Regards, Tomeu -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar as desktop os
2009/7/10 Philippe Clérié phili...@gcal.net: I am looking into implenting sugar for a Montessori school. Maria would be so pleased. +1 Where is your school? Is there a Sugar/XO user group nearby? The current plan is to start with 10 to 20 (depending on budget) computers for a group of about 100 students from 6 to 13, and usage would be on a rotating basis by groups. At this stage, there is no plan to supply each child with a computer. On the other hand, if this implementation is reasonably successful then the school will probably recommend that parents buy computers for their children. I would suggest getting donations of 100 computers, and providing Sugar on a Stick to every student. That way, they could continue at home. Talk to any computer recycler about taking systems with no hard drive, and to any Linux User Group that does Installfests. As things stand now what I was hoping to do is : - Install Sugar on each computer as the main OS. - Setup a server to hold the kids' home directories and provide other services as needed (routing and chat among other things...). I am familiar with the XO and I have downloaded Sugar on a Stick to try it out. My first problem with SaoS is that there is no easy way to install the OS on a hard disk. By easy, I mean something like a) boot the stick, b) click on install to hard disk, or something equivalent. That's the hard way. Use a package manager like Synaptic to install Sugar. You will get more Activities that way. or yum install sugar (Fedora) apt-get install sugar (Debian, Ubuntu) (As a side note, SaoS includes none of the sound/music applications! That's a huge loss!) Jukebox is included but not selected as a Favorite. There is a technical discussion going on about sound in SoaS. When it is finished, you can expect to see more. I looked at the distributions I use, Debian and Ubuntu, and at Fedora because Sugar is derived from it. All three seem to have small problems. If so, please check and if necessary file bug reports. We'll help you. The only issue I am aware of is that Sugar is broken in Ubuntu Jaunty. What problems do you see? In addition it seems that they all require a sugar- emulator and it's not clear to me what is being emulated. It's just the name of the program that starts everything. It is in a sense emulating an XO within a separate X session. But it isn't the fake version of some original that we're hiding from you. :) I'm on a short schedule (only 4/6 weeks to procure and setup) so I am looking for quick answers to avoid blind alleys while doing the necessary research. Any comments/pointers welcome. Mostly I think what I'd like to know is whether what I'm thinking of is even possible. Specifically, is it possible There are some issues in configuring a school server that you will need to ask about. We need the experts to write a procedure for a reasonable configuration with Jabber and Moodle, and put it into the Wiki. and how difficult would it be to have share use of a computer with Sugar as the only desktop OS? It is of course possible. But it is like sharing one pencil among five or ten students. You can't integrate it into a curriculum. This may not be so bad in a Montessori environment, where children don't all work on the same topic together. So if some children are using the traditional Montessori equipment, and some the computer, you will no doubt find a balance. I will be interested to know what balance point the children come to. It will no doubt vary by age and perhaps other factors. That information would be worth an article in one of the Montessori publications. I volunteer to write it if you and the teachers are willing to collect the data. Thanks in advance! Note: The hardware I am looking at is the HP Mini 110 Mi and the System76 Starling Netbook. More than adequate. -- Philippe -- The trouble with common sense is that it is so uncommon. Anonymous +1 -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Problems running Sugar under Jaunty (9.04)
On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Frederick Grosefgr...@gmail.com wrote: A new entry today on http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Talk:Community/Distributions/Ubuntu: (from) Neil Mayhew 16:28, 10 July 2009 (UTC) I was able to make the sugar packages work by adding a gconf setting: gconftool-2 -s /desktop/sugar/desktop/favorites_layout -t string ring-layout Doesn't work for me. I think this will be fixed by adding the right gconf schema to the package, and hopefully will be fixed in version 0.84. There are still lots of non-fatal error messages in the terminal, but it looks like these can be ignored. I used sugar-emulator --dpi=200. I tried that, too. No luck. It still gets to the Sugar cursor and hangs. Logging in to a Sugar session from gdm worked too. Previously, it was thought that a problem with Xephyr and dbus was at fault, but the above workaround shows that it's a Sugar packaging problem. ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Haiti dormant (was Re: Sugar as desktop os)
2009/7/10 Philippe Clérié phili...@gcal.net: We're located in Haiti. Excellent. I had a hand in getting Kreyol localization started. Sorry I left that off. And before anyone asks :-) we're not part of the pilot that was scheduled to begin in Haiti last year. I briefly worked with them. As far as I can tell, after the last cabinet shuffle, the project has gone dormant. Officially, I don't know why. Unofficially, the new Minister of Education does not like anything started by the previous one. Or so it seems. Did the laptops get distributed first? If not, where are they? -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Haiti dormant (was Re: Sugar as desktop os)
2009/7/10 Philippe Clérié phili...@gcal.net: Did the laptops get distributed first? If not, where are they? No the laptops were not distributed as far as I know. As to where they are, the information is not public so I don't know. Excellent. I had a hand in getting Kreyol localization started. It's such a small world. :-) I got involved too at the beginning but the effort seemed to have fizzled very quickly, based on zero activity on the mailing list. Perhaps the effort went elsewhere and I did not notice. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Pootle [ht] — Haitian Creole language — kreyòl ayisyen TA Edward MokuraiCherlin Pootle: mokurai TA Bastien Guerry Pootle: bzg TRA Jude AugusmaPootle: jude O Alexander Dupuy Pootle: Dupuy TRA MasterChes Pootle: Masterches TRA lacrete Pootle: lacrete MasterChes is also involved with Ubuntu localization. -- Philippe -- The trouble with common sense is that it is so uncommon. Anonymous -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] The next Step: v2 Roadmap
On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 3:51 PM, Sebastian Dziallassebast...@when.com wrote: Hi everybody, so here it is, the Sugar on a Stick v2 Roadmap: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/Roadmap#Roadmap Feedback is appreciated, and as we've just entered brainstorming phase, please go ahead and shoot your ideas! :) I would like to see the Bible (Tanakh and New Testament) and Qur'an included, and a selection of world literature. More to come... --Sebastian ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Jaunty up and running
On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 11:25 AM, James Michael DuPontjames.michael.dup...@flossk.org wrote: Sascha, It build and installed all according to the instructions. I dont have this all here at the moment as I said. If you have any questions, you can see my build snapshot, that contains everything. Where? I want to link to it from the http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Emulator_image_files page. I have put 2 days of work and finally got it running on ubuntu, you can see the patches. You can find many bug reports of sugar on ubuntu and others. I dont know of anyone who sugar works. Everyone who tried the packages complained of problems. How come this is so difficult? How come you guys dont test the packages yourself? It was some Ubuntu packager who failed to test Sugar for Jaunty as we would have expected. Installing ubuntu takes about 30 minutes. You can run it it on a virtual machine. Yes, I have done that for several distros. Can you tell me of sugar working on any distro out of the box? Yes. I have Sugar working from packages on virtual images of Caixa Mágica and Fedora. I have seen it run in Debian and Ubuntu Intrepid. See http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Supported_systems#Sucrose for links about various distros with instructions, bug notes, and contact information. are there any success stories? I really cannot find anything on ubuntu except wiki pages that are out of date. Sorry, but this is very frustrating. Indeed. thanks mike On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 6:20 PM, Sascha Silbe sascha-ml-ui-sugar-de...@silbe.org wrote: On Sat, Jul 04, 2009 at 05:43:38PM +0200, James Michael DuPont wrote: The report is with jhbuild on debian jaunty. I built it from scratch. Started with jhbuild run I guess you mean Ubuntu Jaunty. How did you build? Can you give the exact commands you used to build and run, please? What does ./sugar-jhbuild depscheck say? CU Sascha -- http://sascha.silbe.org/ http://www.infra-silbe.de/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJKUNK5AAoJELpz82VMF3DaLTEH/16qsq91tQXDkjEXqDZNyZ64 vtVfD/4qw2DYLQXrXyAnnTyng0JiS7jUGrktPeD2bh5K+pGWuMv+K7f9wEP1l8t8 lztCXwx/bquw/5h3N7my/ERPNa4pCyiflwLNuHSnnFNv39WEt49Jazfz3eGZFOJp 3g7dk+Aw1NVW32Sxk4obvy7ZzEBK78kuDdgd9pe8PcXkQ4js58GDjKWVgYeWu257 FNnrPsJQtCaPLamdmHmcznExO/NAJCBp1X9/fqDTcc6cQ5xGpbIxCEug0Op/qaM3 4/gp7CLPDVmV5uJdeycAO1J2CrpMCSqGZGhzclTcOixA0NbBXysg3u7ei67NMrI= =0g20 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- James Michael DuPont Founding Board Member Free/Libre Open Source Software Kosova FLOSSK ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Journal feature request--more data in main display
On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 7:36 PM, Eben Eliasone...@laptop.org wrote: On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 2:17 PM, Gary C Marting...@garycmartin.com wrote: On 3 Jul 2009, at 10:01, Martin Langhoff wrote: Wishlist: show files by size filter or option? If the Uruguay experience is any indicator, a fact of life is that users after all *will* hit: Yes, exposing size in the main list might be worth considering. I'm looking at the UI in Calibre, a Free Software personal document database (home page calibre.kovidgoyal.net) that scans designated folders, reads metadata from the files or from a server, and provides a variety of views and sort options. It currently has an index of more than 2,000 files on my hard drive. (I have a separate program for cataloging my music files and maintaining playlists.) I can enter text in a search bar, and get back any document that has that text in any field. Columns are o Title o Author o Size o Date o Rating o Publisher o Tags o Series (Think course) Calibre also provides individual and bulk conversion of e-book formats. Journal could use all of those and more. Collaborators (total number, or by name), something like a mime-type/Open With... menu, version history, bookmarks. Good point! Though arbitrary Journal sorting likely breaks many design goals***, I have heard otherwise for more than two years. otherwise you'd have thought we would have the most basic of features, sort by creation date, by now ;-) Particularly if you were not aware of our painful shortage of developers and the great long list of Things That Must Be Done First. I'm impressed that we are as far along as we are overall, though disappointed not to have a more useful Journal. At the very least size taken by an entry should be visible on the details view. Right now there is zero indication other than just watching your total Journal grow in size via its frame icon. Title is what I miss most, but I would use most of the others regularly and all at least on occasion. ***Eben can you clarify this one? If locking folks into a 'view Journal only by modification date' was an intentional design choice? Not at all. The proposed designs include a sort bar, which would function in the traditional fashion, but be sorted by date (when) by default. See http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Design_Team/Designs/Journal#03 Tomeu has been working on using the standard GTK TreeView, so I think we're on track to add sorting by name, date, and participants (we need to decide what sorting by participants means...I think sorting by number of participants might be the useful choice, so that it's easy to surface the collaborative activities). In a tree view, it would be useful to have an expandable list of collaborators, sorted by name. That and other sorted lists should be in correct language-specific sorts in a suitable normalization, not a sort on raw Unicode code points. For example, each language that uses accented Latin letters has different rules for sorting them, and similarly for case and other issues. ICU can deal with many of these complications. There is more information at http://userguide.icu-project.org/collation http://userguide.icu-project.org/collation/faq If we expose file size in this list somehow, that would also be sortable. Eben Regards, --Gary ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Journal --- Sugar-Developers meeting REMINDER (2 July, 2009 - 14.00 (UTC)) --- irc.freenode.net, #sugar-meeting
I'm expecting you all to invent Linux groups any minute now. ^_^ On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 6:52 PM, Andrés Ambroisandresambr...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday 03 July 2009 02:29:56 pm Eben Eliason wrote: On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 10:42 AM, Gary C Marting...@garycmartin.com wrote: On 2 Jul 2009, at 14:47, Eben Eliason wrote: On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Aleksey Limalsr...@member.fsf.org wrote: But in that case we should provide possibility to mark objects that can be shared(I guess sharing all local objects by default is not a nice idea). Right. This would be essential. There's definitely some thought that needs to be done here. Scott had an interesting proposal which basically exposed the Journal (or some subset of it) as an RSS feed. This was really neat, because it meant we could build a UI for someone else's Journal in Sugar, populating it with that data, but also that these feeds could be shared globally, for anyone with an RSS reader to benefit from. That's a really powerful approach in my mind, and there is some starter code lying around as a proof of concept already! +1 to rss feed concept, makes life a lot easier in a heterogeneous environment. I'm still catching up on email so apologies if this has been mentioned already. But the UI for marking of entries as sharable does not necessarily need to be another Journal user-interface addition** In the simplest approach you could just extend the Activity Share with: my Neighbourhood control to mark a Journal entry as part of the RRS feed. Would need some The problem I see with this is that we're talking about two different kinds of sharing. Just because I want to make a picture I drew available for anyone to look at, or even make a photocopy of to scribble on, doesn't mean that I want to let them into a shared painting session so they can scribble on the original with me. This is the difference between sharing an activity with someone collaboratively, and sending them (a copy of) the resulting object. thought on wording, do you add more levels of sharing? Or do you just simplify the Share with: language language to Private, Share with: Anyone. **though I would like entries to visually show their sharing state, the buddy column hints at this but should be made explicit I do actually think that the Journal is the best place to expose this, especially since the way we plan to expose the feature in the UI is something like view my friend's Journal. I'm not sure exactly how or where that happens. Perhaps if we can abandon the checkbox for the multi-selection we can use that space for a public/private toggle of some kind. How about using special tags? A Publish tag seems reasonable for this, and consistent with the fact that it could live in a publish directory an HTTP server would serve. I can also imagine a tags used for starred entries and other metadata (in a general sense) used by sugar. This would make them searchable as well. Eben ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- -Andrés ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Journal feature request--more data in main display
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 7:01 AM, Tomeu Vizosoto...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 20:13, Gary C Marting...@garycmartin.com wrote: Hi Tomeu, On 28 Jun 2009, at 09:59, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: 2009/6/21 Edward Cherlin echer...@gmail.com: We have about 60 characters worth of blank space in every Journal entry. It would be a great help if we could display 40-50 characters from the description field for each entry on the main page. We could also drop off the word Activity from every Activity name. Are you sure that the description is the best use of the available space? I was thinking about displaying the tags beneath the title Would that work for you? +1 for tags beneath titles. I've just tried a quick mock-up to bounce around some ideas, Tomeu is there a wiki page you're working from that this (and others) could go? Likely needs more refinement but might a few more thinking on it :-) I'm afraid that would be quite a bit of work, right now I'm planning on just adding there the string as-they-are from the Tags field. An excellent start, particularly if we can get the beginning of the string-as-it-is from the Description field. But would be great if someone wanted to work further on tag entry and display. Regards, Tomeu Regards, --Gary -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Journal feature request--more data in main display
Oh, Michael, you're in trouble now. ^_^ You risk reinventing the data-centric Ontology in an Object-Oriented Programming form. This is one of the worst sinks for time and mental energy that I know of. It saps the will, because soon users become obsessed with making the map match the territory, when in reality everybody wants to make different maps in different territories. Still, we have to do something along these lines. If we actually do it as OOP, not just in OOP, so that users can redefine the classes, we might get somewhere without turning our minds to stone. Maybe we can make it into a pattern language? On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Michael Stonemich...@laptop.org wrote: Gary C. Martin wrote: I like the intent, but I don't think the activity centric view has concrete enough spec to consider implementing yet. I want to convince you that we actually have enough detail to make forward progress with. To that end, I'm going to offer a bunch of text on how I think this display is supposed to work. You should go through it to identify a) things that don't make sense b) things that are disputed or where I'm obviously wrong c) things that are insufficiently specified and we should try to fix those. Then we'll be ready to do another round of discussion and prototyping. Regards, Michael --- The best picture I've ever extracted from people on this subject looks like this: Mental Picture of the Experience of Recording Butterflies * - action / \ instance - / \ \ / \ *--/ /--*---* - object container / | //\\\ bundle | / | \\\ / / | | \\ prototype / | | | \ * * * * * - objects I'm with you on actions, object containers and objects, but I don't know what the instance arrow is pointing to, nor what bundles and prototypes would be here. Is a prototype a structure for a particular kind of collection, such as a portfolio outline? I would be interested to see this applied to a few dozen common workflows, such as student portfolios, a business plan, a lesson plan, a textbook incorporating software models, a research report, a photo album with pictures extracted from different sessions by different people, or downloaded from somewhere, and so on. If we knew what workflows our teachers and students needed, we would have a better chance of designing something that met their needs. This diagram represents the action of recording a roll of 10 photos of butterflies in an instance of a recording activity derived from a specified bundle. Is that an XO software bundle? Key points: * I can paint on a photo but not on a record instance. * On the other hand, I can use the instance to a) resume recording butterflies or b) to locate an activity prototype suitable for beginning a new recording action on a different theme. (The instance functions a bit like a UI continuation.) The continuation for resuming, yes, with the prototype like a factory class, spawning instances as needed. --- Analyzing http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Design_Team/Designs/Journal#02 Aha! The object-oriented view is just what Tomeu and I were talking about, but better. Except that the sample screens don't have a place for tags. I vote for objects rather than actions, which I find to be too wordy and uninformative. I want titles of documents and other objects. Don't tell me how I made it, let me tell you what it's for, or about. I also want the object view so that I can apply any appropriate Activity to the object. I don't want it tied to the Activity used to create it. I should be able to write a program or a Web page in a text editor, and then run or open it. I should be able to save a PDF from any appropriate application, and then view or edit it in some other program. I should have an easy way to create graphic files, and then hand them over to some bundle structure as artwork for a program. And so on. OOP as Alan intended it. we see that * Each top-level entry in the display depicts an action. * Each top-level entry can be zoomed in or out (i.e. contracted or expanded, but as part of a large-scale zoom metaphor). When contracted, each entry displays a horizontal summary of the action containing: 1) the past tense of a verb 2) an action resume display, consisting of a) an initiator-colored activity icon, b) a bold label with the action title, and c) a resume button 3) an optional iconic summary of the actions's participants, [Eben -- how do we abbreviate this summary if there were lots of participants?] Click to expand? 4) and a mandatory freshness indicator. [In
Re: [Sugar-devel] Flossmanuals?
On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 7:35 AM, Bastienbastiengue...@googlemail.com wrote: I'm a bit skeptical about using flossmanuals for co-writing and translating Sugar's documentation. What are the real benefits over a simple wiki? The documentation on the OLPC and SugarLabs Wikis is barely usable for experts, severely incomplete, and not in any way usable or acceptable for novices. They need to have a path laid out through the essential topics, even if they choose to skip over some the first time through. On the other hand, if you have a plan and would care to lead a Wiki sprint, we might come out with something acceptable. I'm game. But then, how would we turn that into a PDF or book? -- Bastien ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Strawberry VDI, please
Several SoaS betas were made available as .vdi files suitable for use in VirtualBox. Can we get Strawberry in this form? Or can somebody tell me how to create one? -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Strawberry VDI, please
Thank you. Downloading now. I am on a FLOSS Manuals book sprint today, but I can report back by this evening, and we can link to it from a few other Wiki pages. On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 10:21 AM, Caroline Meeks solutiongr...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Edward, Can you test the one up here and let us know how it goes. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/VirtualBox Thanks, Caroline On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 1:14 PM, Edward Cherlin echer...@gmail.com wrote: Several SoaS betas were made available as .vdi files suitable for use in VirtualBox. Can we get Strawberry in this form? Or can somebody tell me how to create one? -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove carol...@solutiongrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Strawberry VDI, please
Works fine on Virtualbox OSE on Ubuntu J. Thx everybody. I see several important improvements already. More testing tonight. On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 10:26 AM, Edward Cherlin echer...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you. Downloading now. I am on a FLOSS Manuals book sprint today, but I can report back by this evening, and we can link to it from a few other Wiki pages. On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 10:21 AM, Caroline Meeks solutiongr...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Edward, Can you test the one up here and let us know how it goes. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/VirtualBox Thanks, Caroline On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 1:14 PM, Edward Cherlin echer...@gmail.com wrote: Several SoaS betas were made available as .vdi files suitable for use in VirtualBox. Can we get Strawberry in this form? Or can somebody tell me how to create one? -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove carol...@solutiongrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: How do I get to upload a very nice VMware appliance to sunjammer?
Somebody got a VDI working. We need to spread links around the Wiki on this. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/VirtualBox#Sugar_on_a_Stick http://www.sugarlabs.org/static/soas/soas-strawberry-vdi.zip On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 8:25 AM, Bert Freudenbergb...@freudenbergs.de wrote: Great! I was trying to make Strawberry run in VMware but failed: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/VMware/Preparing_a_disk_image - Bert - Am 25.06.2009 um 17:04 schrieb David Farning: Some Mac related questions from Thomas Gilliard. He has been working on VMimages for Sugar Labs. david -- Forwarded message -- From: David Farning dfarn...@sugarlabs.org Date: Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 9:59 AM Subject: Re: How do I get to upload a very nice VMware appliance to sunjammer? To: Thomas C Gilliard satel...@bendbroadband.com Thomas, I am going to forward your message to sugar-devel. The developers should be able to help you more effectively than I can. david On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 6:43 AM, Thomas C Gilliard satel...@bendbroadband.com wrote: I have still not been able to get logged in to sugarlabs so I can upload VM Appliances. We were working together to achieve this, but I never could sort out how to get through my apple airport router. I have created a very nice Soas-strawberry appliance. My methods are detailed on the VMware page of the wiki. I sent some early appliances on DVD's to daveb last month. But I have never heard about them again... I have been working with nubae and cyberorg on #opensuse-edu testing their versions for the last month or so, but want to get back to contributing to the F11 Soas at sugarlabs. Please help me get connected. I want to help. Cordially; Tom Gilliard satellit ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] picked up by [some media]
On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 2:33 AM, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote: I'm sorry Jonas, I had assumed the success of our launch (3700 SoaS downloads yesterday) would be of interest to all Sugar Labs contributors, in particular those who worked so hard on it. Does anyone else feel it's too much information? I would be worried though if any contributors weren't interested in coverage, especially in their countries. I'm glad to see it. It may help that my mailer dedupes the feed, so I don't see everything once per list. Although most coverage has been in the online tech press, we are reaching out to educational publications as well; it's only a matter of time until we get coverage from them as well, as news of our pilot projects comes online. We still have to overcome the trade press bias against non-advertisers. I'm discussing articles with IEEE Transactions on Education. You may be aware that we are battling a perception of developers working too isolated from the classroom. Some critics have cited our absence of both a feedback loop Guess they don't read Spanish. ^_^ and consolidated data about large-scale Sugar use. These are valid concerns that merit our attention. See http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Academic_Papers and other pages that it links to. In my opinion, communicating the benefits of Sugar as a Facilitator is something any of us could be doing. Marten Vijn spoke passionately about direct action recently and he is absolutely right that each of us should be spreading news of Sugar. I get a Google Alert on OLPC daily, and I'm about to sign up for one on Sugar on a Stick. I frequently comment on the Web sites of articles that Google brings to my attention. Negative press means that activity is more difficult; Negative press is almost always an opportunity to get positive press, except possibly at the Wall Street Journal. The Editorial Board seems to think that Free Software is bad for business. positive press means it's easier. So I feel it is relevant to know if we are being covered fairly, if our message is getting out, or if we are being heavily criticized in areas we need improvement, or criticized unfairly based on false perceptions. But I don't mind if we pull back the notices to Marketing. Is anybody Wikifying these items? thanks Sean On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Jonas Smedegaardd...@jones.dk wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: RIPEMD160 STP cross-posting marketing info, please! Great info, but not educational nor geeky, so irrelevant for those lists IMHO. Kind regards, - Jonas - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEAREDAAYFAkpDO/8ACgkQn7DbMsAkQLgWHQCfbCLJVjSJG8wWBBi9CCXUuYhm zBsAn1oWfLhf5AH6vVCP5ymdaiFVmKkM =SN5a -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Journal feature request--more data in main display
We have about 60 characters worth of blank space in every Journal entry. It would be a great help if we could display 40-50 characters from the description field for each entry on the main page. We could also drop off the word Activity from every Activity name. I am going to create dozens of lesson plans in Turtle Art soon, and I would like not to have to fish for them. The search field helps, but is not enough. Eventually, we will have hundreds and perhaps thousands of Turtle Art lessons, and likewise for Etoys, Scratch, Pippy, and a number of other activities. -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Customizing a Master Stick
On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 2:33 PM, Walter Benderwalter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: The user info is in .sugar/default/gconf/desktop/sugar/user Delete .sugar/default/gconf/desktop/sugar/user/%gconf.xml .sugar/default/gconf doesn't exist in the SoaS image I am using from May 3. -walter On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Caroline Meekscarol...@solutiongrove.com wrote: I have a cool USB Copy machine thanks to NexCopy. My plan for FOSSED is to create a stick, download the extra activities, etc. I want, ideally add the manual pdf, and then de-personalize the stick and copy it. Walter showed me that rm -r .sugar will take a stick back to the state where it asks for your name. But it also clears the journal entirely. The activities I've downloaded are still there, but no longer in my favorites. I think I want to be a bit more selective. What should I delete to just remove the users name and colors, but leave the Journal. Where do I look to see the Journal contents so I can delete that which I want to get rid of by hand. Thanks! Caroline -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove carol...@solutiongrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] SVG problem workaround
I rendered the offending tiles on my laptop, and copied them into the virtual image. So I can start posting lessons tomorrow, barring further interruptions. -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Testing streamlined sugar-jhbuild
On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Jonas Smedegaardd...@jones.dk wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: RIPEMD160 Hi Bernie and others, [commenting since I was adressed personally] On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 06:46:25PM +0200, Bernie Innocenti wrote: we'd like to get the streamlined branch merged, but there's doubt that many distributions we don't test frequently with would break randomly due to older package versions or missing patches. If you're running a *recent* distro other than Fedora or Ubuntu, please check out this repository, build, and report back: As you probably all know, I do run a certain distribution different from those emphasized above. I do not, however, trust a complex web-interacting script like jhbuild to run on my machine. After the problems I have had before, I agree. Now I would only do such a thing in virtualization. If I weren't so far behind on other things, I would test sugar-jhbuild in Caixa Mágica Linux or Debian in VirtualBox OSE. I run packaged software. Risky too, but cutting the wildest edges, I believe. - Jonas - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEAREDAAYFAko6gSIACgkQn7DbMsAkQLh2dACaAzADG8GjSYz0o2FSc/SvSszR 0jUAoJLQaYIrDLVUV97ibeIc6PTt37pF =Z8/+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] learning implode...
How about writing this up for OLPC News? On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 1:05 AM, Sameer Vermasve...@sfsu.edu wrote: My daughter, who is 3 years and 7 months old has largely stayed away from the XO (or for that matter computers in general) other than mimicking me by turning on the XO and giving our guests/visitors an unexpected short speech on let me show you this computer. This is the one laptop per child. She still likes her crayons and Lego blocks. She's on her summer break at home these days, which has forced me to get creative and keep her engaged. I introduced her to implode (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Implode) today. I showed her how to move the arrow (she insists that I call it an arrow and not a mouse because calling it a mouse is just silly) start a new implode game and select three or more blocks of the same color. The goal is to get that smiley face at the end of the game. One demo, plus some hints, and in under three minutes, my daughter has become an implode player. I-N-C-R-E-D-I-B-L-E !!! She even taught her mother how to play the game later this evening. For all the arm chair naysayers out there, get with the program! Children are amazing!!! cheers, Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) i...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Physics Roadmap
Did you look at my Turtle Art version of Alan Kay's third-grade gravity lesson? http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/File:Gravity.odt On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 11:39 AM, Brian Jordanbcjor...@gmail.com wrote: Attaching Sugar Devel (people who want to be involved with Physics development might be on there). On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 5:28 AM, Asaf Paris Mandokiasa...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I've managed to get my development environment working and started hacking the Physics activity. I added a pin button and a motor button so these features aren't hidden anymore. I wanted to add a Play/Pause button but it's not as easy as I thought. It is much better to control time flow with the keyboard but I think it would be good to have a way to make the feature explicit. I'm planing on committing my changes to the main branch as soon as I come up with a nicer icon for the motor button. Commit it :) Would anyone like to help with making menu icons? After I'm done with that I'm thinking on starting with the journal integration. I will clone the main branch and work over there. I've seen some suggestions for the scene file format at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Physics_File_Format . Is there a handy XML library I could use? I see the Physics component is now on dev.sugarlabs.org. I've added a bug I found, should I add the features I would like to implement in the future? . What is the best way for communicating regarding this project? Who are the people involved right now? Thanks, Asaf ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Gsoc proposal: Speech Synthesis
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 12:03 AM, chirag jainchiragjain1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I proposed for the speech-synthesis in Gsoc 09. My proposal can be viewed at : http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/speech-synthesis As a first phase of my development, I have implemented the speech and karoke style coloring of the text. Thank you. I have long been waiting for this. http://www.olpcnews.com/content/ebooks/effective_adult_literacy_program.html A basic speech configuration manager has also been implemented to alter the volume, pitch and rate of the speech. Will it be able to handle tonal languages such as Vietnamese or Yoruba (Nigeria)? How would this system handle creation of voices for different languages? Are we at the point where we can request recordings of phoneme samples for the target languages in Pootle? It would be great if you can test the activity. Please download the speech-synthesis.zip from the link: http://code.google.com/p/speech-synthesis/downloads/list I have also included a detailed documentation of the activity. It would be great if you can send some feedbacks to me so that I can improve upon his activity. Regards -- Chirag Jain Undergraduate Student Netaji Subash Institute of Technology New Delhi ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Gsoc proposal: Speech Synthesis
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 1:40 PM, Jonas Smedegaardd...@jones.dk wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: RIPEMD160 On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 12:46:22PM -0700, Edward Cherlin wrote: On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 12:03 AM, chirag jainchiragjain1...@gmail.com wrote: A basic speech configuration manager has also been implemented to alter the volume, pitch and rate of the speech. Will it be able to handle tonal languages such as Vietnamese or Yoruba (Nigeria)? How would this system handle creation of voices for different languages? Are we at the point where we can request recordings of phoneme samples for the target languages in Pootle? The project seems to be a _frontend_ for speech synthesis, not inventing a whole new method of speech synthesis itself (which would be far too much for a GSoC project). Right. So my questions translate to o Do we know whether e-speak can handle tonal languages? o Is this project far enough advanced so that we should ask Sugar Labs for a speech repository, and start recruiting linguists (to give us the phoneme data) and native speakers (to make the recordings)? The code uses espeak synthesis as backend. Languages supported are here (linking to a page on how to contribute additional languages): http://espeak.sourceforge.net/languages.html I see. Lots still to do. I'll ask jonsd, the project contact. Kind regards, - Jonas - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEAREDAAYFAkoxa6oACgkQn7DbMsAkQLizVwCbBHAemHthwsoYj+ThYQ24xNp1 TdsAnidpf4rdAyLANEQ45WDW0CrNG9fg =rHLd -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Journal files on regular desktop
On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 3:16 AM, Tomeu Vizosoto...@sugarlabs.org wrote: About a hierarchical file browser in Sugar, I think we need it anyway for removable devices, but I'm not sure where we would put such a window and how it would look like. Regards, Tomeu I have been using the character mode file browser Midnight Commander within Terminal. It's more than children need, but we could do a cut down version. http://www.midnight-commander.org/ http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activities#Midnight_Commander -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] collaboration testing session
On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 9:09 PM, David Van Asschedvanass...@gmail.com wrote: Hi folks, We are having a collaborative sugar testing session next week Wednesday 10th June at 20:00 UTC (That is 4 pm EDT, 3pm EST, 2 pm CST, 1 pm MST, and 12 pm PST, most of Europe that will be 9 pm, 8 pm for the UK) So far we have 5 people signed up, but more are welcome as we really want to see how collaboration works on many activities where it isn't quite obvious. We will be taking notes and storing log files of the sessions, and will suggest ways in which the activity in question might be more collaborative, or may need less of it (who knows :-) Sounds good. I need the results of such tests for project planning. We will be testing the activities that come preinstalled on the openSUSE sugar images, but we'd like to test various distribution methods (virtual appliance, cd, usb, hd) and various distros (at least Fedora SoaS, openSUSE sugar, Mandriva or Caixa Magica) I dont believe 0.82 images are compatible with 0.84 for collaboration, so am afraid this is for 0.84 only... I run Ubuntu, and I have virtual images for Fedora, Debian, and Caixa Magica. Please post your willingness to participate so we have an idea on who/how many will be collaborating. We also need a volunteer to take notes, and a volunteer to store logs files. There will of course be a transcript of the irc session too (we will meet at #sugar-collaboration) We forsee this taking between 1 and 2 hours... Here is the list of activities we will be testing, so make sure you have them installed if you plan to take part (not all have collaborative abilities, and for those that don't it can be a brainstorming session on whether/how we can make them collaborative: sugar-finance sugar-flipsticks-activity sugar-freecell sugar-imageviewer sugar-implode sugar-infoslicer sugar-jigsaw-puzzle-activity sugar-joke-machine-activity sugar-jukebox sugar-labyrinth sugar-maze sugar-memorize sugar-moon sugar-paint-activity sugar-pippy sugar-playgo sugar-read sugar-readetexts-activity sugar-record sugar-slider-puzzle-activity sugar-speak sugar-storybuilder sugar-tamtam-common sugar-tamtam-edit sugar-tamtam-jam sugar-tamtam-mini sugar-tamtam-synthlab sugar-analyze sugar-turtleart sugar-typing-turtle sugar-viewslides sugar-write sugar-browse sugar-irc sugar-calculate sugar-xomail (sugar-sweetmail) sugar-cartoonbuilder sugar-clock sugar-colors sugar-connect sugar-drgeo-activity xoEditor sugar-evince sugar-fiftytwo sugar-chat sugar-terminal sugar-journal sugar-physics sugar-library sugar-poll sugar-tuxpaint kind Regards, David (nubae) Van Assche www.nubae.com ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) i...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] FM--DocBook (was Fwd: [FM Discuss] Fwd: Documentation ...)
Here is your invitation to have at FLOSS Manuals to Docbook XML conversion. -- Forwarded message -- From: adam hyde a...@flossmanuals.net Date: Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:17 PM Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] Fwd: [Sugar-devel] Documentation [WAS: Re: [Localization] Help activity] To: disc...@lists.flossmanuals.net not too tricky...you could try it yourself : 1. view a manual with the chapter _all 2. add the following ?skin=basic that gives you an entire manual without a skin...then u can see the raw html and try out some transformations on that... im offline as i write this but i believe there is some good stuff online about html-docbook transformations if you can write a shell script to do it then we can hack it in somehow adam On Thu, 2009-05-28 at 16:12 -0700, Edward Cherlin wrote: How hard would it be to get the FM software to generate Docbook XML? That would give us several more output formats. -- Forwarded message -- From: Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org Date: Thu, May 28, 2009 at 2:45 AM Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Documentation [WAS: Re: [Localization] Help activity] To: Sayamindu Dasgupta sayami...@gmail.com Cc: iaep i...@lists.sugarlabs.org, localizat...@lists.laptop.org, sugar-devel sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org, Diogo Serra @ IPLEIRIA diogo.se...@ipleiria.pt On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 21:47, Sayamindu Dasgupta sayami...@gmail.com wrote: [Jumping into the discussion midway]: From an l10n point of view, I would highly recommend adopting (and perhaps extending) the GNOME documentation framework. It is docbook based, which is a format pretty easy to pick up (and I believe OpenOffice.org can also export to docbook - though I have never tried it out). Well, I think it was a decision by the people who wrote the manual to use floss manuals, I guess it would be up to them which tool they use. And in the same way, translators would choose the tools that best suit them. I think that floss manuals has already tools for translation and also think that people have worked on a translation to spanish, Maybe we should ask to those people which was their experience with the floss manuals tool set? Regards, Tomeu Many programmers and documentation people should This would easily let us a) generate PO files out of the documentation files b) merge back translations easily c) generate multiple format files (PDF, epub, rtf, etc) It would be even more incredible if our documentation system can be integrated with the work being done at http://tutorius.org/ :-) +1 What I have been wishing for. A random google search brought up the story of a project which had used twiki initially, and then had moved on to docbook: http://www.ipcop.org/1.2.0/en/authors_guide/html/what-is-docbook.html Also, converting existing material might not be _that_ difficult: see http://deplate.sourceforge.net/ Thanks, Sayamindu On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 2:29 PM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote: [forwarding to sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org] 2009/5/14 Diogo Serra @ IPLEIRIA diogo.se...@ipleiria.pt: Hy there, Where i can find the *.po of Help activity ? Thanks -- Diogo Serra Programação e Desenvolvimento Campus 5 - Rua das Olhalvas 2414 - 016 Leiria - PORTUGAL Tel.: (+351) 244 845 052 | Fax: (+351) 244 845 059 | diogo.se...@ipleiria.pt | http://ued.ipleiria.pt ___ Localization mailing list localizat...@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/localization ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Adam Hyde Founder FLOSS Manuals German mobile : + 49 15 2230 54563 Email : a...@flossmanuals.net irc: irc.freenode.net #flossmanuals Free manuals for free software http://www.flossmanuals.net/about ___ Discuss mailing list disc...@lists.flossmanuals.net http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Running Sugar with sugar-jhbuild - questions
On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 9:25 AM, Bastien bastiengue...@googlemail.com wrote: I did a fresh install of sugar-jhbuild. Likewise. ./sugar-jhbuild depscheck doesn't advertize the need for python-distutils-extra. Recent bug reports about this: http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/902 http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/898 The only dependency problem I ran into was a conflict between olpc-sound and csound, which I was able to remove without breaking anything. I am quite pleased with the recent improvements. I had not been able to compile sugar-jhbuild successfully for weeks. However, I had to invoke 'force checkout' several times, because of missing .git directories. Another problem: sugar-jhbuild still doesn't recognize my keyboard to be AZERTY. Is anyone successfully using a non-QWERTY keyboard? Yes. You are in a new X session that doesn't know what your main session is doing, so you have to tell it what you want. I often switch keyboards, so I create scripts that I can use in Terminal. My ru script is #!/bin/bash setxkbmap ru My asdf and фыва scripts both contain setxkbmap dvorak while my aoeu script contains setxkbmap us for when I want to let others type without confusion. You want 'setxkbmap fr'. I want to make screencasts but would prefer to fix this before. Thanks! -- Bastien ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Running Sugar with sugar-jhbuild - questions
On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 12:38 PM, Sascha Silbe sascha-ml-ui-sugar-de...@silbe.org wrote: On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 11:35:20AM -0700, Edward Cherlin wrote: However, I had to invoke 'force checkout' several times, because of missing .git directories. Interesting. Where exactly? TurtleArt or something else? Four or five times. Unfortunately, I did not make notes. setxkbmap us You mean you can run this command inside Terminal inside sugar-emulator and the keyboard is working properly then? That would mean we've got a workaround now, i.e. very good news! Yes. It has always worked that way in every form of Sugar+Terminal that I can get running at all, on several Linux distributions, in Sugar on a Stick, in LiveCD images, and more. See [[Emulator image files]] for the list of what I know to be available. In particular, in yesterday's sugar-jhbuild on 64-bit Fedora in VirtualBox. I would like to see SCIM in sugar-jhbuild, with the UI adapted to Sugar. CU Sascha -- http://sascha.silbe.org/ http://www.infra-silbe.de/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJKHugmAAoJELpz82VMF3DaXskIAKGVx0TxwMoVttGj2RGEEwLC 8s+AVHZE77DTiXgqISUlPesL9RxNNMMvKRUtMKrafzc5VwOImw6nZb+4OSNYv2r7 DdIDDGB4fva6H+nfhrHAE1VtD7bVAC+tDSKiS1Nkbhb9Zph31ke+zQ6NOsDWtH2C Fl8DfbhMSMQZ1kRsQ8OK+oLDhTMnLG6jRT4rBUc2yKkf170sbpSgXTGM6QNm3zux k96MOeL0fJ/hyVQgNtQoyC/TxdGQ1Zl+A0Rl/hUY/2Q6Nce4EprvP69UbMutLpQ9 SXqawoIrvLdN9CPSY9cbdrMZkvZfV77MatDP6xojaQh1dVhw9XidQX57pjteTAE= =ll9I -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Running Sugar with sugar-jhbuild - questions
On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 2:37 PM, Bastien bastiengue...@googlemail.com wrote: Edward Cherlin echer...@gmail.com writes: You want 'setxkbmap fr'. It works! Great, thanks. Is there something similar to .xsession where I could put this instruction, so that I don't need to run the script from within the Terminal each time? There is indeed. In images, you can edit /etc/sysconfig/keyboard, following the instructions at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Customizing_NAND_images#Keyboard Or you can put it in the startup script for Terminal. Let's see...It's .bashrc for non-login shells, and .profile for login shells. Joyride used to have a UI for changing localization, including UI and keyboard. There are situations where I think the children should have that facility, such as India, which has ten official writing systems for more than 20 official languages, and more than 800 others. There are also schools in California near where I live with several dozen languages in use among students in bilingual classes. More than 60 languages in LA, I hear. (If you want your ear bent some time ^_^, ask me about the Laotian community in Mount Shasta or the Uighurs in New Jersey, or...Well, there's more if you care.) I put more details about keyboards (very nearly my first contribution to the Laptop Wiki) at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Keyboard_layouts There are links to this and the NAND page on the Localization page. The 'setxkbmap' command is also mentioned at http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Almanac#I_am_developing_on_an_XO_laptop.2C_but_my_keyboard_and_language_settings_are_not_ideal._How_can_I_change_them.3F -- Bastien -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Physics activity development
On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 4:52 AM, Lucian Branescu lucian.brane...@gmail.com wrote: I'm in the same situation (well, I will be when I get my macbook back). I do see a lot of talk towards making Sugar and activities behave more like standard applications. Perhaps Sugar will work on OS X natively some day. Anybody who would like to port it to BSD and integrate it with the Apple GUI is more than welcome to speak up. Sugar is making its way into all major Linux distributions. BSD has some differences in filesystem layout and libraries that would require some work. I don't know how much. 2009/5/27 Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com: Hi Asaf, On 27 May 2009, at 05:00, Asaf Paris Mandoki wrote: Hi, I would like to get started adding the play/pause button and the pin button. Probably the next step is to integrate the activity with the journal. The only problem is that I haven't been able to get my development environment working. It seems there are some open issues with ubuntu. My plan right now is to wait until the Ubuntu issues are fixed. Any suggestions for a better setup? The only thing I have working now is a virtualbox environment where i've been testing the activity and found some bugs. You are welcome to try any of the VirtualBox setups that I have documented at [[Emulator image files]]. I saw a commit with the joystick feature removed. Is the base code ready to start adding the minor button changes? As for my part I'll hold off making any changes for now. Too many cooks, but a nice situation to be in :-) Other than recommending, A) trying to keep in the habit of working in your own git branch and then merging back to master when stable; or B) use Gitorious to just clone the repository and work there, then make a merge request when your done (this option is more visible as folks can see what you doing as you commit changes and you can also give your branch a nice visible name). Have a chat and co-ordinate with Brian and see what his current plans are; the other usual way to communicate would be to create trac tickets (dev.sugarlabs.org) for the bugs/features you want to work on, assign it to yourself, and cc: the others involved (bjordan and myself at the moment) – unfortunately the Physics component has not yet been added (and there is no temporary 'other') so you'll need to email/chat just for now. Regarding development environments; I have a Mac here, so spend most time in VirtualBox with Fedora 10 and sugar-jhbuild, though I'd have a much simpler Activity development set-up if I could just use a recent Sugar distro in VirtualBox, but the distros are all still a little too 'pre-release' to want to rely on just now – running a Mac, running VirtualBox, running sugar-jhbuild, running Sugar is rather a wasteful and large stack of code I hope to avoid at some point :-) Regards, --Gary Thanks, Asaf On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 2:17 AM, Brian Jordan bcjor...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 8:59 PM, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com wrote: Hi Brian, On 24 May 2009, at 18:36, Brian Jordan wrote: Hey all, Gary -- when you get a chance, can you add me as a committer on git.sl.o? I'd like to help clean things up! You're added! :-) Can I request we try and make small clean commits and try to let others know what we are doing. If you want to hack, Gitorious supports quite a nice 'Clone repository' and then 'Request merge' process (no commit rights needed for the main project). The alternative, if you know what you are doing, is just make your own local git branch to hack on, so you can take care of any merge/conflict issues yourself when you fold it back into the current master. I'm far from a git expert, but I can recommend some bed time reading at: http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~cduan/technical/git/ and/or http://gitready.com/ Thank you, will devote some to that! Need to learn to keep my crazy features in branches. I'd like to get on with Labyrinth work, if you're willing to have an initial clean up of the Physics source in the next few days... so what was 'joysitck' feature all about? ;-) This would probably be best to describe on the wiki page, the idea was to make a UI for assigning keys on the XO-1 to impulses or changes on certain objects, so simple 2 player physics based games could be made from within Physics. Agreed, though, I will rid that from the code so we have a nice base line for crazy-feature branches. Once the dev.sugarlabs.org component is added we should add the features/bugs in there to keep them all together. FWIW, from a UI point of view I had in mind: 1) remove/disable 'joysitick' feature as I have no idea what it was meant to be ;-) 2) build tool buttons correctly using RadioToolButton so they display state correctly 3) use set_accelerator to define visible keyboard shortcuts for the tools Asaf -- do you
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar in jaunty chroots... working today.
On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 9:42 AM, Michael Stone mich...@laptop.org wrote: Hi folks, I just wanted to report a small victory: I worked out instructions at http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Chroot which enabled me to run today's Ubuntu Jaunty sugar packages in a debootstrap chroot on my home machine. What happened when you ran them? Under regular Jaunty, sugar-emulator gets into X, changes to the Sugar cursor, and hangs. No promises that it will keep working tomorrow or that it will work on your crazy setup, but I think it's worth trying, since it /is/ fairly repeatable. Michael Who knows -- perhaps they'll work for others who are weary (or wary) of jhbuild? P.S. - If you're looking for a fun weekend project, then you might consider extending my notes by * making the instructions work on more platforms * figuring out how to cache the downloads, e.g. with approx * baked my logic into a downloadable script or makefile * etc... ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Simplifying sugar-jhbuild
On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 11:41 AM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote: As with any other sugar module, people want to run the latest code because it will contain bugfixes, etc. I see hulahop in the same way. As with any other module of anything, some people want to run Stable, some want Testing, some want Unstable, the very latest code. (I am using Debian terminology, but the concepts apply anywhere.) I am willing to use Testing, but not Unstable. I want an option to build something that is known to compile, with a mechanism in place to determine when we move forward to another level, and to enforce periodic bug-triage and bug-fixing when we need to make that move. We owe this to our development community. -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Simplifying sugar-jhbuild
+1 overall. The Wiki recommends sugar-jhbuild as an environment for developers. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team Development systems All of core Sugar development except system-dependent modifications can be done on a standard computer by compiling jhbuild and editing with your favorite editor (eclipse/pydev, emacs, vim, etc.). Given its dismal record of being able to compile and run, I have not found that to be the case. I had complete success _once_ over a period of months. On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Bernie Innocenti ber...@codewiz.org wrote: Today I've kick-started a newbie on building Sugar to fix a small bug and submit his first patch. It was just painful. jhbuild has plenty of rough corners and we could easily make things easier with a few changes: 1) Stop checking out random unstable versions of external projects. They break very often, and we cannot fix them. Let's instead upgrade manually every once in a while after some testing. Yes! 2) Do not build C modules that is already available (and recent enough) in popular distros. Specifically: abiword, matchbox, hippocanvas... Assuming that we aren't building modified versions, of course. 3) Let's move etoys away from the base set of components: the repository is often offline, building it breaks very often, and it takes a lot of time. You don't need it in order to test Sugar, the same way you don't need TamTam and TurtleArt. And you don't usually need Sugar to test Etoys. Now that we have numerous functioning images with functioning Activities, this works for me. Although I would miss TamTam and Turtle Art. Did I mention that The Tech Museum of Innovation in San Jose (California) wants to do an XO exhibit, with a focus on art and music education? 4) We could check for prerequisites before starting the build. Some configure scripts are stupid enough to fail tests silently and proceed anyway using no as a command name in make :-) Isn't that supposed to be the purpose of './sugar-jhbuild depscheck'? It doesn't always work, and could be considerably improved with distribution-specific knowledge. If there's consensus on implementing one or more of these points, I can provide patches (or just go on and commit them). Please. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://sugarlabs.org/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Fwd: [IAEP] The eBook ah ha moment for Sugar on a Stick
Would the Sword Bible and Qur'an activity developers please create Wiki pages for them? How do we contact you? And anybody else, of course. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activities -- Forwarded message -- From: Caroline Meeks carol...@solutiongrove.com Date: Tue, May 12, 2009 at 11:31 AM Subject: Re: [IAEP] The eBook ah ha moment for Sugar on a Stick To: Edward Cherlin echer...@gmail.com Cc: iaep i...@lists.sugarlabs.org On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 2:17 PM, Edward Cherlin echer...@gmail.com wrote: Add the Bible and Qur'an reader programs? Those should at least be on the activity portal. Can you see if you can get in touch with the maintainers? Thanks, Caroline On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Caroline Meeks carol...@solutiongrove.com wrote: For the next SoaS Beta I'd like to help users trying out Sugar, especially educators, have an ah ha moment about how Sugar on a Stick can open a huge world of books for their students. The US elementary schools I visit have a computer lab and they have books. But they certainly don't have the budget to get as many copies of as many different books as they would like. Maybe our new users will know that there are free books on the internet. Good chance they have never actually tried it themselves. Plus, having a book on the internet doesn't help their students if they get one hour of computer time in the lab. But having a book on your Sugar Stick and being able to read it in multiple locations is actually very useful! This is one of the many things I want educators to discover as they play with their Sugar Sticks. I know we have wonderful library apps coming down the pike. What I'm interested in right now is what is the art of the possible for the next Beta in June? Suggestions so far: - Include the FLOSS Sugar manual in the SoaS Image - Add a link to one or more free book sites in the startup page on Browse - Include a kids book in the SoaS Image. Other ideas? Thanks, Caroline -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove carol...@solutiongrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) i...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove carol...@solutiongrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] How Can We Showcase Turtle Art Portfolio
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 3:23 PM, John Tierney jtis4...@hotmail.com wrote: Hello All, Would like commentary from the community on how we can try and showcase the abilities of Turtle art Portfolio We are hearing excellent reports from schools about how it impacts learning. I think we could get a sampling of actual student work together with reports on the students' progress since they started using it. Portfolio work is credited with a great speedup in foreign students mastering the level of English that they need. Apparently it rarely fails to work with special-needs children. Of course, we would have to ask permission of children, schools, and parents. Portfolio is also an excellent tool for showcasing uses of other Activities, since you can import essentially any saved session from the Journal. along with the things each of us are working on. The email below came from my inability(due to my confusing question) to start the thread in our IRC marketing meeting today. I hope those of you going to Paris get a chance to spend some time on this subject. This is an important piece of our Educational Outreach and a capability that all community members can showcase. Therefore, I have cross-posted to IAEP, Developer, and Marketing-please pass along to others who can be of help to the conversation. Thanks, John Tierney Hi Walter, Sorry I wasn't so clear in my question was just trying to start thread about importance of Showcasing TA Portfolio-The Journal and TA Portfolio combination for Teachers ability to see child's work and progression is one of the themes we should push. The idea that every activity integrates with the Portfolio is great selling point for teachers. When developers and activity designers discuss and describe their work mentioning it integrates with TA portfolio reinforces key concepts of reflection and critique and allows for children to showcase their creativity for Parents, Teachers, Peers and Community. From the non-technical/developer world I am not sure if it works with all activities. Showcasing and featuring the TA Portfolio as an additional assessment source which allows children to let their creativity shine is an important thing to get across. Allowing all community members to market this ability(Helps or Works with TA Portfolio) will help bring many more Teachers and others into the fold. Having a little session with the members at Sugar Camp Paris and with OLPC France about TA Portfolio and its ability to help Teachers and Students and the Programs ability would be very beneficial, even more so if it was recorded. Much like Evangeline's and your presentation at Sugar Camp it was one of the most instructive pieces on how this ability can make a true difference in the classroom. Now that the TA Portfolio activity has been realized, putting forth it's usability seems advantageous. Just an idea- Spot on. The reason why I give all my talks using Turtle Art is exactly to make this point of closing the loop. -walter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) i...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Sugar Digest 2009-05-11
For many people, the easiest starting point for reporting tests of SoaS is on the Wiki, at the appropriate subpage of http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/Getting_Involved, such as http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/Getting_Involved/Testing/Soas-beta_20090423 Instructions for download, installation, and testing are provided there. On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 10:30 AM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: You are welcome to email to the Sugar developers list or post a ticket in Trac (dev.sugarlabs.org) or post it on irc.freenode.net #sugar or send it to Sebastian, but the latter is probably the least scalable of the options. -walter On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Kathy Pusztavari ka...@kathyandcalvin.com wrote: Walter, how does one report problems with Soas - directly to Sebastian Dziallas or is there a place for that? If to Sebastian, what is the email address? -Kathy -Original Message- From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org [mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Walter Bender Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 8:40 AM To: community-n...@lists.sugarlabs.org Cc: iaep; sugar List Subject: [IAEP] Sugar Digest 2009-05-11 ===Sugar Digest === The discussion about pedagogy on the IAEP list intensified this week. My takeaway from the discussion is that while we won't (and don't need to) reach consensus about one right way to teach, we must have consensus around our goals as a community or our efforts will become too diffuse to be of any practical use; we are not engaged in an academic exercise-we are touching the lives of real children on a global scale. Indeed, the primary reason we spun One Laptop per Child from MIT (and Sugar Labs from One Laptop per Child) is because we intend to deliver things to think with to learners everywhere. As a community, we have consensus that Sugar and Sugar activities should be freely and readily available to learners everywhere. This would suggest that the developer community continues to strive to make it simple to create and share Sugar activities and its efforts to create versions of Sugar that run on multiple operating systems and on multiple hardware platforms. But what is Sugar? At one level, Sugar is an API that provides a unified framework for activity developers to support collaboration, reflection, and sharing in their programs. But those features were chosen with a purpose: to encourage learners to engage in authentic problem-solving and a critical dialogue about whatever problem in which they are engaged. This engaged, learners will develop skills that help them in all aspects of life. Sometimes that dialog is with your peers, sometimes it is with a teacher or mentor. Sometimes it is open-ended and sometimes it is within the context of structured instruction. In every case, it involves expressing, debugging, critiquing, and reflecting. In every case, it is enhanced by the hard things to learn, Alan Kay's non-universals, e.g., reading and writing; deductive abstract mathematics; model-based science; etc. The culture of FLOSS, with its emphasis on ''en plein air'' debugging and critique, is part of our pedagogy. Sugar embodies the message that everyone has an opportunity and responsibility to contribute to our knowledge commons. That contribution need not be Python code. Members of the Sugar community must: * explore, share, evaluate, and debate best practices; * provide technical and pedagogical support; and * create new learning activities and pedagogical practice. Roland Gesthuizen has a concrete set of suggestions for teacher participation in our community: * report back issues that make using the Sugar interface difficult when used it in the classroom (collaborate) * develop and share lessons built around applications that work on Sugar (curriculum) * share by word of mouth, blog and twitter with colleagues that we are using Sugar (communication) * ask deep and hard questions about the learning that goes on when students use Sugar (pedagogy) * work to answer these questions (research) * and more... ===Help Wanted=== In the run up to the June Beta release of Sugar on a Stick, Sebastian Dziallas has asked for help with testing all of the activities being considered for inclusion. We'd like to be more thorough in finding any problems so that we can be sure to address them in time for the final release in September/October. ===In the community=== The OLPC France Sugar Camp meeting will be held in Paris on May 16 (See http://sugarcamp.eventbrite.com/). There will also be a Sugar meeting on the 17th (See Marketing_Team/Events/MiniCamp_Paris_2009). A team of Babson College management students will be working with Sugar Labs beginning this fall as part of a Management Consulting Field Experience (MCFE) Program. ===Tech Talk=== Christian Schmidt led a Design Team meeting this weekend that covered topics such as
[Sugar-devel] sugar-jhbuild error--compiles but fails to initialize
I'm going to keep on doing this every once in a while, but I'm not holding my breath. Fortunately, I can actually use the SoaS Beta in qemu. Ubuntu 9.04 $ ./sugar-jhbuild run [dix] Could not init font path element /usr/share/fonts/X11/cyrillic, removing from list! [config/dbus] couldn't take over org.x.config: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.AccessDenied (Connection :1.307 is not allowed to own the service org.x.config.display100 due to security policies in the configuration file) unrecognised device identifier! (EE) config/hal: NewInputDeviceRequest failed (2) unrecognised device identifier! (EE) config/hal: NewInputDeviceRequest failed (2) unrecognised device identifier! (EE) config/hal: NewInputDeviceRequest failed (2) unrecognised device identifier! (EE) config/hal: NewInputDeviceRequest failed (2) unrecognised device identifier! (EE) config/hal: NewInputDeviceRequest failed (2) [dix] Could not init font path element /usr/share/fonts/X11/cyrillic, removing from list! (EE) XKB: No components provided for device Virtual core keyboard [config/dbus] couldn't take over org.x.config: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.AccessDenied (Connection :1.307 is not allowed to own the service org.x.config.display100 due to security policies in the configuration file) unrecognised device identifier! (EE) config/hal: NewInputDeviceRequest failed (2) unrecognised device identifier! (EE) config/hal: NewInputDeviceRequest failed (2) unrecognised device identifier! (EE) config/hal: NewInputDeviceRequest failed (2) unrecognised device identifier! (EE) config/hal: NewInputDeviceRequest failed (2) unrecognised device identifier! (EE) config/hal: NewInputDeviceRequest failed (2) 1241421571.333533 STARTUP: Starting the shell matchbox: keyboard does not appear to have a alt key. matchbox: ignoring key shortcut Altreturn=fullscreen /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/jarabe/desktop/meshbox.py:19: DeprecationWarning: the sha module is deprecated; use the hashlib module instead import sha /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/jarabe/desktop/keydialog.py:17: DeprecationWarning: the md5 module is deprecated; use hashlib instead import md5 -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] SoaS Beta (0.84) in qemu
After I found that Turtle Art is broken in the latest SoaS image, I went back to the earlier beta and ran it in qemu. I now have what I need to start serious work on using Turtle Art to teach math. For anybody else who may be interested, here is one way to do it on Ubuntu Intrepid or Jaunty, assuming that you have a recent processor and a recent Linux kernel. Package names and installation procedures vary among other distros. Further details at [[Qemu]]. Install qemu and kvm (kernel accelerator for qemu) packages: apt-get install qemu kvm (I have a directory where I keep various .iso and .img files.) Change to a suitable directory: cd ~/dev/ISOs+imgs Download the soas beta image there: wget http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/releases/soas-beta.iso kvm -M pc -m 512 -cdrom ~/dev/ISOs+imgs/soas-beta.iso -net nic,vlan=0 -net user,vlan=0,hostname=emu -boot d Networking Just Works[TM]. You can convert the read-only .iso to a read-write image with qemu-img convert -O qcow2 soas-beta.iso soas-beta.img where qcow2 is the qemu Copy-On-Write format, which also supports image compression, encryption, and other features. Now I need to find out how to convince Sugar to save changes to the image file. kvm -M pc -m 512 -cdrom /home/mokurai/dev/ISOs+imgs/soas-beta.img -net nic,vlan=0 -net user,vlan=0,hostname=emu -boot d You can add other hard drive and USB drive images, and various other emulated hardware. -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Ubuntu 9.04 will not start
I'm not clear on the nature of your problem. I have no difficulty running a SoaS image in kvm (apart from broken Activities). http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/Getting_Involved/Testing/Soas2-200904231400 I just now confirmed that it runs in Jaunty. I will add details to the page as soon as I can take time away from more pressing matters. From the bug page, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-vesa/+bug/356133 KBios wrote on 2009-04-15: Confirmed on amd64. The vesa module seems still from a prerelease of xorg (version 1.5.99). I see xserver-xorg-video-vesa version 1:2.0.0.1ubuntu6 On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 12:56 AM, Sascha Silbe sascha-ml-ui-sugar-de...@silbe.org wrote: On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 02:34:21PM -0700, Edward Cherlin wrote: o The culprit appears to be a security setting in config/dbus that prevents Xephyr from accessing the display. Does anybody know where this setting is, and what it should say instead? I've changed the wiki to remove Ubuntu Jaunty from the list of supported versions. Will add it back once Xephyr and X inside kvm [1] work (without the latter I cannot test if Sugar runs properly). [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-vesa/+bug/356133 CU Sascha -- http://sascha.silbe.org/ http://www.infra-silbe.de/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJJ9WUUAAoJELpz82VMF3DaJ4YIAI8bsPHxUl3glJhjWRodaTS6 Ar/f40BtOHuHMOI5aZo9AUjlrB0xJIPtZX0ChyBApDvVDm9GBxZgltlYI7+VLt4E AmiuCkNp7L+4Yq43Axf1Rz/y8iB2gPAh5eGH+W3ar4zaydai8DxEZA7udKjaRfpz smdyYAIALdBY6fW1E5Bj+0Cmc1kHarMHBiX6HO5x+7XcjGQ6lDoKi5Iycs/c/Kgy WuGgEFg8IyJgL0RB3FuQjDExghg3RTAai8ksI+oa2XE8Wz+fx8l8ah/a7ydwwE5W GI5W+o/C7/0H9v7eYJpB4gBZr8hHgwUPQFxyKhErDe/v/7bbcNFizQI+qLIdhko= =oMQr -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Ubuntu 9.04 will not start
So SoaS, Jaunty packages, and sugar-jhbuild on Jaunty all fail in different ways. Not good. What versions of 0.84 actually work? On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 2:16 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: FWIW, I have the troubles referred to by Sascha with jhbuild on Jaunty. -walter On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 4:47 PM, Eduardo H. Silva hoboprim...@gmail.com wrote: Oops, I guess you were talking about Soas, not ubuntu jaunty packaged Sugar. 2009/4/27 Eduardo H. Silva hoboprim...@gmail.com: Another semi-blocker of Sugar in Ubuntu Jaunty, is that python-hulahop still contains Python 2.5 modules, but Python 2.6 is default in Jaunty's package which makes Browse not start. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sugar-hulahop/+bug/364871 2009/4/27 Edward Cherlin echer...@gmail.com: I'm not clear on the nature of your problem. I have no difficulty running a SoaS image in kvm (apart from broken Activities). http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/Getting_Involved/Testing/Soas2-200904231400 I just now confirmed that it runs in Jaunty. I will add details to the page as soon as I can take time away from more pressing matters. From the bug page, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-vesa/+bug/356133 KBios wrote on 2009-04-15: Confirmed on amd64. The vesa module seems still from a prerelease of xorg (version 1.5.99). I see xserver-xorg-video-vesa version 1:2.0.0.1ubuntu6 On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 12:56 AM, Sascha Silbe sascha-ml-ui-sugar-de...@silbe.org wrote: On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 02:34:21PM -0700, Edward Cherlin wrote: o The culprit appears to be a security setting in config/dbus that prevents Xephyr from accessing the display. Does anybody know where this setting is, and what it should say instead? I've changed the wiki to remove Ubuntu Jaunty from the list of supported versions. Will add it back once Xephyr and X inside kvm [1] work (without the latter I cannot test if Sugar runs properly). [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-vesa/+bug/356133 CU Sascha -- http://sascha.silbe.org/ http://www.infra-silbe.de/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJJ9WUUAAoJELpz82VMF3DaJ4YIAI8bsPHxUl3glJhjWRodaTS6 Ar/f40BtOHuHMOI5aZo9AUjlrB0xJIPtZX0ChyBApDvVDm9GBxZgltlYI7+VLt4E AmiuCkNp7L+4Yq43Axf1Rz/y8iB2gPAh5eGH+W3ar4zaydai8DxEZA7udKjaRfpz smdyYAIALdBY6fW1E5Bj+0Cmc1kHarMHBiX6HO5x+7XcjGQ6lDoKi5Iycs/c/Kgy WuGgEFg8IyJgL0RB3FuQjDExghg3RTAai8ksI+oa2XE8Wz+fx8l8ah/a7ydwwE5W GI5W+o/C7/0H9v7eYJpB4gBZr8hHgwUPQFxyKhErDe/v/7bbcNFizQI+qLIdhko= =oMQr -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Ubuntu 9.04 will not start
On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 3:59 PM, Martin Dengler mar...@martindengler.com wrote: On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 03:50:37PM -0700, Edward Cherlin wrote: So SoaS, Jaunty packages, and sugar-jhbuild on Jaunty all fail in different ways. Not good. What versions of 0.84 actually work? SoaS works for me. Yes, SoaS Beta, I found out just now, but not the current snapshot. I am documenting my findings on [[Emulator image files]]. Martin -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Ubuntu 9.04 will not start
Thank you. That makes much more sense now. On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Sascha Silbe sascha-ml-ui-sugar-de...@silbe.org wrote: On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 01:32:34PM -0700, Edward Cherlin wrote: I'm not clear on the nature of your problem. When running Ubuntu Jaunty _within_ KVM (i.e. as a guest, not as a host) the X server does not work, at least if the vesa emulation option is used (to get screen resolutions 1024x768 and color depth 16bit). I have no difficulty running a SoaS image in kvm (apart from broken Activities). SoaS is based on Fedora 11, not Ubuntu Jaunty, so it does not suffer from this bug. Confirmed on amd64. The vesa module seems still from a prerelease of xorg (version 1.5.99). I see xserver-xorg-video-vesa version 1:2.0.0.1ubuntu6 That's the same as I have installed, but it still doesn't work, with the same error message. CU Sascha -- http://sascha.silbe.org/ http://www.infra-silbe.de/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJJ9paIAAoJELpz82VMF3DapukH/jzdzDYBw7DyxMFIu4Wp/78v 7IEtGkUNowkClxqITGtMcv5Uwd8EKSuOKDnr0IHYkkXDiZB6I4wEydlGdFfgeXZR 6QnJnDLClZr5HtbryndPtxxjtZPDPT6zA+Dhi6/v9hnvHEuYaCAA0cXnZ7Ge8bMj 6boDo5gyO0nOoLzB28YkFUiydDdARIn+ndSkZbpgBLSXWEavRDDYokhJkEWh4lXE Q59IB293ENUClwZo6R1nu3SVQYhlGM66Q/0j20EMurpkRi5MTgDa5rKEqGZuXDVf K1xVBccomOjarO0HTaesGYPNFcYEmsOhyEvRkCEeidXFLL6IXGxGaurP2BecgI0= =TB01 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] Resuming Snapshot Creation
On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 2:37 PM, Sebastian Dziallas sebast...@when.com wrote: Hi folks, after our most recent beta release, we've now a new image ready for you! This is the first of a number of snapshots on our road to another real SoaS release. Links to the iso image, as well as the archive with the appliance are provided below. Thank you. http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/snapshots/2/Soas2-200904231400.iso I have just spent several hours working with this in kvm/qemu, and putting my results on http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/Getting_Involved/Testing/Soas2-200904231400 Now that I'm done with the first pass, I'm going to install Ubuntu 9.04 and try it again. Then I'll see about tracking down the missing NumPy modules, working with sound and if possible video, and, again if possible, working on lesson plans using the latest and greatest. http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/appliances/soas2-20090423.zip Note that this is heavily 'work in progress'. Here are the news: * It's now again based again on Rawhide, as we move on. * The Labyrinth, Paint, Record and TamTam activities have been included. * Further news regarding an easier process of gathering feedback on system configurations is coming up. Please stay tuned! We've also a number of known issues in this snapshot: * etoys needs to be rebuilt to get sound working. * the tamtam activities still need to be fav'ed. Currently, early plannings for the upcoming release are taking place. Please give this image a try and report the issues you come along. Thanks and happy testing! ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] IMPORTANT: sugar-jhbuild: upstream jhbuild migrated to new location
On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 2:03 PM, Sascha Silbe sascha-ml-ui-sugar-de...@silbe.org wrote: Hi! The upstream part of jhbuild has been migrated (by GNOME) to a new location, so if you've got a copy of sugar-jhbuild, you need to follow. I'm sure there's a proper git way to do it, but for now it's easiest to just rm -rf jhbuild and let ./sugar-jhbuild update fetch it from the new repo. Apparently not. Should there be a git-clone command in there somewhere? $ ./sugar-jhbuild update Updating sugar-jhbuild... remote: Counting objects: 16, done. remote: Compressing objects: 100% (10/10), done. remote: Total 10 (delta 5), reused 4 (delta 0) Unpacking objects: 100% (10/10), done. From git://git.sugarlabs.org/sugar-jhbuild/mainline edbbae1..50ee70f master - origin/master Updating edbbae1..50ee70f Fast forward config/modulesets/glucose-external.modules |1 + ...e-0001-Add-gthread-2.0-to-pkgconfig-check.patch | 25 sugar-jhbuild |2 +- 3 files changed, 27 insertions(+), 1 deletions(-) create mode 100644 config/modulesets/patches/telepathy-gabble-0001-Add-gthread-2.0-to-pkgconfig-check.patch Updating upstream jhbuild... Already up-to-date. Traceback (most recent call last): File ./sugar-jhbuild, line 47, in module import main File /home/mokurai/dev/sugar-jhbuild/sjhbuild/main.py, line 31, in module import jhbuild.commands ImportError: No module named jhbuild.commands If you don't switch over, your setup might stop working or show interesting failure modes sooner or later. :) CU Sascha -- http://sascha.silbe.org/ http://www.infra-silbe.de/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJJ6kAqAAoJELpz82VMF3DagBQH/0xbhEvJhnyJfNCb1cSFuc2u tMJ4t+HG1HN3ml0awOYjC4TqmpdH7wx+I32HgQzd78FeVekS6kuSgaC9eZiO6byW GzuaPWZdnZm4oLkDjAd1czuPBAUVcZBcX0Z0PyfWkOnqDyLDi+M9TGQ0f7OuTk/o Fgn3DkwKV7nCldIsAm09weA1QWVqLHjZxiPGmsPDo0m3q3oxyyuQ5a4XeEN36RVm vn6BKU99P6/AO5JUOTfN/8l9Y2UD8KlAGyQHbt/pSSggmbSOdthPfaiyZgn8LBPU MVqdNUSQB9BVPRXtcxXE3NXze9rUGKT8D7iTNjMt6emAq+P4eUaBeGj/tVItNmk= =QqM1 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] UCBLogo
I see that UCBLogo is under GPL, and that there is a Sugarized version. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Project_Ideas#Logo_Activity There is a Sugarized Logo—UCB Logo—but it does not record data into the Journal or use the standard Sugar toolbar. There are two possible approaches we could take: (1) digging deeper into UCB Logo and (2) working with another Logo, possibly PyLogo. Can we get this into our repository? I would like to have a version that can read the Logo files that Turtle Art can write, without having to run a script to extract them from the Journal. I would also like to have the ability to read Logo files into Turtle Art and translate them as far as possible. It should be no more difficult than the TA -- Logo conversion, assuming that we recognize only Turtle commands, and skip over anything else. I am exercising my own limited Python skills on creating new Turtle Art tiles to use in teaching various ideas in math and Computer Science. o A While or Until program flow tile o A tile to read the color and tone of the dot under the turtle, for use in a toy Universal Turing Machine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfram's_2-state_3-symbol_Turing_machine), a Befunge interpreter, and a synesthesia (colors -- sound) machine. And no doubt other things. o A sound output tile, for the afore-mentioned synesthesia machine. o Prefix logic tiles, to match the recently added prefix math tiles, so that we don't need parentheses (which we don't have and I don't want to implement). o More math functions o Your idea here? -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Turtle Art in sugar-jhbuild--defaults to Spanish
Why does TurtleArt in sugar-jhbuild default to Spanish? How do I change the language for TurtleArt? I have found the language-specific files in images, locale, and samples, and the place in turtleart.py that says to use the .es file, but there must be some other place that specifies Spanish, because changing .es to .en and copying the po.en file over the po.es file don't give me English. -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [Grassroots-l] personal Re: Experience w/ using GPS with XO laptops
On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 9:22 AM, Jeff Mascornick jjm4...@yahoo.com wrote: Thank you Steve! I am wondering about the LINUX based XO - I'm part of a team applying to deploy XOs to Tanzania and we are looking into incorporating GPS for cultural exchange/learning, environmental education and/or some other purposes. So, if anyone has info on using any GPS on Linux based XOs, please let me know. That's a complicated question. There is plenty of GPS and GIS software in the Linux world. Running graphical software under Sugar requires a rewrite. If you can make use of gpsd, the GPS daemon, within any existing Sugar software, you are good. Another possibility is to wait for Sugar to include Gnome. At that point most graphical Linux software will become usable. I am copying this to the Sugar Development list for an opinion on when that might happen. Since you are asking about getting software onto the XO, you should probably join that list. (Also, what our team may do is get Windows PCs for each of the classrooms where ArcMap is used [since this may be the easiest way] and the children could incorporate their XOs once the end result of the project is on a website.) Test whether your PC app will run under Wine. Anyway, I am asking about Linux based possibilities. Hope this helps. Thanks Jeff Mascornick, MA Research Assistant Center for Community Research Service School of Urban Affairs and Public Policy University of Delaware jjm4...@yahoo.com (302)547-5952 (c) --- On Thu, 4/2/09, Steve Holton sph0l...@gmail.com wrote: From: Steve Holton sph0l...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Grassroots-l] personal Re: Experience w/ using GPS with XO laptops To: jjm4...@yahoo.com, OLPC Grassroots list grassro...@lists.laptop.org Date: Thursday, April 2, 2009, 9:04 AM On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:24 PM, Jeff Mascornick jjm4...@yahoo.com wrote: I would like to rephase my question please. I understand that there are many issues involved with XOs and all of that - I am wondering if any one knows whether GPS units/software will be compatible with the newest versions of XO laptops. ...newest versions of XO laptops. You might need to clarify your question to get good feedback. Are you asking about the already-released XO-1 hardware model, the yet-to-be-developed XO-2 hardware model, or about a particular software release version (and which one) for the XO's? Specifically, you should let the list know whether you are looking for GPS software to run under Linux or Windows. It appears you're looking for Windows software (since Arcmap is Windows based) and I don't think many people in the Grassroots community have had any access to XO's running Windows. -- Steve Holton Moderator: OLPC Grassroots list. sph0l...@gmail.com ___ Grassroots mailing list grassro...@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/grassroots -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.net/ (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [Grassroots-l] personal Re: Experience w/ using GPS with XO laptops
On Sat, Apr 4, 2009 at 4:10 AM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, Apr 04, 2009 at 12:24:57AM -0700, Edward Cherlin wrote: Another possibility is to wait for Sugar to include Gnome. At that point most graphical Linux software will become usable. I am copying this to the Sugar Development list for an opinion on when that might happen. Since you are asking about getting software onto the XO, you should probably join that list. Ahem, it is news to me that Sugar is aiming at including GNOME at all. Could someone please elaborate on that? (is it perhaps Sugar support for starting non-Sugar X11 applications?) Yes. My mistake. Kind regards, - Jonas - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAknXQCMACgkQn7DbMsAkQLi/+wCfWhcawxl9NwLqnf/HxLBX+VuU KSoAoJS0QNc/JfLzJfEcKK7ikqghFtEp =IANP -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.net/ (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
