Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Uruguayan XOs Revival

[Samuel Greenfeld]

OLPC has released firmware to unlock all XOs locked via standard means:
https://wiki.laptop.org/go/Persistent_developer_key_firmware

Definitely make sure you have permission first. You may have to ignore
download warnings about the https:// page having http:// download links in
Chrome/etc..

It is possible that the OS build on the laptop could be too old to boot
with the device tree in newer firmware.  But ideally these should work.



On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 1:19 PM Ignacio Rodríguez 
wrote:

> I would suggest reaching out to someone at Ceibal.
> Fiorella Haim might be a great contact point: fh...@ceibal.edu.uy
> I reached out to her a year ago and she mentioned that there are no more
> XO's that are in good condition to be used.
> I already gave all the ones I had to my friends, even made some tiktoks
> videos that went viral (heh).
>
> HMU if you want to do more stuff with the XO's beside unlocking them.
> If it's just unlocking them by the "Lista negra" as Ceibal calls them,
> just create a zip file with no content on the USB Drive.
>
> Greetings
>
> El vie, 30 jun 2023 a la(s) 13:59, Walter Bender (walter.ben...@gmail.com)
> escribió:
>
>> Maybe someone at OLPC can get you the codes. But Ceibal should also have
>> them. I cannot imagine that they would be unwilling to share them at this
>> time.
>>
>> regards.
>>
>> walter
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 12:35 PM Luis Michelena 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It's anybody there?
>>> Cheers from Uruguay, long time no see, How are you all? Some folks
>>> from Uruguay Butiá/CeibalJam and I, are trying to unlock XOs from
>>> Ceibal(to revisit Butiá, and ,maybe, it's possible uses in
>>> accesibility)
>>> Do some of you could give us some advice about how unlock them?
>>> It would be preferable if it could be posible to maintain the fs
>>> contents.
>>> It's there still a chance to get developer keys for the XOs?
>>> Because Ceibal decided to end support, declare them obsolete, and
>>> begin to recycle !! but also turn the switch off for the rest of
>>> the kicking ones...
>>>
>>> Thank you in advance,
>>> Luis Michelena
>>> ___
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>>> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Walter Bender
>> Sugar Labs
>> https://www.sugarlabs.org
>> 
>> ___
>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
>> i...@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [SLOB] Motion regarding xo-computer icon

[Samuel Greenfeld]

But I intentionally gave the very simple examples...

While RHEL/CentOS (and many other open source/commercial hybrid projects)
rebrand their free versions because a complete replacement causes obvious
confusion, these projects themselves include many products with trademarked
names.

Should Sugar refuse to include a Python(tm) editor?  Or change programming
languages because we proudly say Sugar is written in Python(tm)?
https://www.python.org/psf/trademarks/

Do we then go to JavaScript(tm) which is a trademark of Oracle(R)?

Or be confused with any number of products (shoes, hand lotion, etc.) which
also have trademarks for the "Python" name?

Trademarks come into play primarily when there is confusion.  And OLPC
allegedly muddied the waters early on by allowing their name and logos to
be used by OLPC France, OLPC SF, etc.

It's not clear at this point if there is confusion between Sugar Labs and
OLPC over the logo, except as part of a historical reference which both
companies have.

If there was clear proof that OLPC was using the XO logo to promote Endless
then there might be something.  If OLPC explicitly asked Sugar to change
the icon, then that would be something to be considered.

OLPC's website, while updated, still promotes Sugar on XO-1.75's and the
"XO Laptop Touch" (by specs, likely a XO-4).

Given we still know people at OLPC, and OLPC people who went to Endless, I
would have expected to hear something by now if they formally wanted to
break ties with Sugar.





On Sat, Sep 16, 2017 at 9:13 PM, Sebastian Silva <sebast...@fuentelibre.org>
wrote:

>
>
> On 16/09/17 18:19, Samuel Greenfeld wrote:
>
>
> By this measure, are we implying that Fedora & CentOS cannot be
> distributed because they contain trademarks owned by Red Hat, and Ubuntu
> cannot be distributed because it contains the name and logos owned by
> Canonical?
>
>
> Your questions are spot on. Perhaps your examples will serve to clarify
> the issue:
>
> The point of CentOS is exactly to remove trademarks from Red Hat Linux in
> order to be able to distribute it legally.
>
> Quoting from Wikipedia CentOS article.
>
> *`CentOS developers use Red Hat's source code to create a final product
> very similar to RHEL. Red Hat's **branding and logos are changed**
> because Red Hat does not allow them to be redistributed.`*
>
> And I also know that, while you can distribute Ubuntu, you cannot make a
> derivative distribution of it and call it anything-like-buntu, or you will
> have problems with Canonical Inc.
>
> Quoting directly from https://www.ubuntu.com/legal/terms-and-policies/
> intellectual-property-policy:
>
> *`Any redistribution of modified versions of Ubuntu must be approved,
> certified or provided by Canonical if you are going to associate it with
> the Trademarks. Otherwise you must** remove and replace the Trademarks**
> and will need to recompile the source code to create your own binaries.`*
>
> As you can see, being this topic such a mess in general, Sugar Labs would
> serve its community well by staying clear of any Trademarks, as a general
> policy.
>
> Regards,
> Sebastian
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [SLOB] Motion regarding xo-computer icon

[Samuel Greenfeld]

I agree with Sameer; if we want to debate this, this really needs a
lawyer's opinion.  Either that or just asking OLPC Inc. what they consider
acceptable.

Sugar has been using the XO logo for approximately 11 years now.  My
non-lawyer opinion is that if someone was to complain, they would be barred
by estoppel for having known about it, but failing to make a claim in a
timely manner.

By this measure, are we implying that Fedora & CentOS cannot be distributed
because they contain trademarks owned by Red Hat, and Ubuntu cannot be
distributed because it contains the name and logos owned by Canonical?


On Sat, Sep 16, 2017 at 9:22 AM, Sebastian Silva 
wrote:

>
> On 15/09/17 09:12, Walter Bender wrote:
>
> (A2) Sugar Artwork, including the xo-computer icon, is currently licensed
> under the GPL and we would like our downstream users to be able to use all
> of our artwork under the terms of that license. As far as the use of any
> trademark image outside of the context of Sugar, we have no opinion.
>
>
> There is a (hopefully not intentional?) flaw in this answer. The board was
> in a rush to pass the motion, but it should be more careful when
> communicating with our legal counsel.
>
> SLOBs, please clarify:
>
> "(...) we would like our downstream users to be able to use all of our
> artwork under the terms of that license (GPL)"
>
> Sugar Labs does not distribute Sugar to end users. Instead it distributes
> Sugar to distributors (Debian, Fedora) who have their own downstream
> projects (OLPC, Trisquel, Ubuntu). In turn these distributions are often
> bundled with hardware vendors products or local service provider's
> services: *These last groups are the most threatened by a potential
> Trademark dispute.*
>
> Does restricting the answer to "users" mean Sugar Labs Oversight Board
> does not care about these actor's freedoms?
>
> Please also clarify:
>
> "As far as the use of any trademark image outside of the context of
> Sugar, we have no opinion. "
>
> This is contradictory with the previous statement. The terms of the GPL
> provide for licensees to be able to use the source for *any purpose.* A
> Trademarked logo cannot be used for any purpose. This is basically the
> legal reason to keep any Trademark out of the Sugar User Interface.
>
> Regards and happy Software Freedom Day to all,
>
> Sebastian
>
> ___
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> i...@lists.sugarlabs.org
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [SLOBS] MOTION: French visa for Samson Goddy to attend 10-year Anniversary Scratch Conf / 50-year Anniversary of Logo

[Samuel Greenfeld]

My experience with the SFC is that while they like to do license
enforcement, they are not platform purists.  If you look at the bottom of
sfconservancy.org they have their own social media accounts.


The ".fla" file at least in #4758 actually may be the source code in binary
format.  I do not have access to a copy of Shockwave to verify that.
But without knowing the license for the flash content (unless Samson knows
the source; the README is for a different .fla, and I cannot find it) it is
unclear if the bundle as a whole can be GPL v3 licensed.

I do not recall having an active ASLO account to check the other activity
in question.


On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 2:11 PM, Sebastian Silva 
wrote:

>
>
> On 13/06/17 12:50, Samson Goddy wrote:
>
> Your mentioning Facebook, iPhone, Windows, Flash, LinkedIn etc, do not fit
> with this agreement, so we would sincerely appreciate if you do not promote
> these entities while representing Sugar Labs.
>
> Could you explain more, because i dont understand. And also how did you
> think i might breach the agreement?
>
>
> While your promoting these entities does not breach the wording of the
> agreement, I believe it goes against the spirit of it. Please review
> information on GNU.org such as the following articles, to understand why
> such technologies are distributed in bad faith.
>
> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/keep-control-of-your-computing.html
> https://www.gnu.org/proprietary/proprietary-surveillance.html
> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html
>
> On the other hand, these Sugar Activities (by you) don't have proper
> sources available. This actually is a breach of the agreement, and they
> should have been removed:
>
> http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4759
> http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4758
>
> In accordance to the license file on those .xo bundles, I request that you
> share the source for the .swf Flash components embedded if you wrote them,
> otherwise please make sure they are removed from ASLO.
>
> Regards,
> Sebastian
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Sugar on Surface Pro (Microsoft Partnership)

[Samuel Greenfeld]

But what is a more proper port to Windows going to give us beyond what
Lionel has already done by including Sugarizer in pretty much every major
app store (including Microsoft's and Apple's)?

There is a cost associated with porting applications and their ongoing
maintenance.  If Sugar is not going to receive a benefit, however measured,
that outweighs the cost, then what is the point?

Something similar already has happened with the original XO laptop series.
While it may be possible to port newer operating systems/Linux kernels/etc.
to them, no one has quantified how many active users this could help, and
no one has taken up the mantle of actually doing the work.


On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 7:36 PM, Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net> wrote:

> Having Sugar available on Windows 10 is important to establish its reality
> as an alternative educational platform for educators. Educators in Rwanda
> and the Philippines accept Windows as the software for vocational
> preparation to the extent that the XO is not to be used for secondary
> education because Sugar is for primary school children.
>
> Ideally, Sugar would be a normal Windows program with a large file in the
> C: partition in the manner of Wubi. Sugar alongside Windows would be
> helpful but less effective with educators with their Windows blinders on.
>
> Tony
>
>
> On 04/03/2017 01:26 AM, Samuel Greenfeld wrote:
>
> The short answer is yes; there are any number of ways (HTML app,
> ActivePython .NET port, WSL, GTK for Windows, etc.) to port Sugar to
> Windows.
>
> Each has its own strengths and weaknesses.
>
> The big question is if any of them are worth it.
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 1:40 AM, Yatin Maan <yatinma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hey,
>> I understand that this is an April fool's joke but with introduction on
>> "Windows subsystem for Linux (WSL)"[1] I was wondering whether we might be
>> able to directly run sugar on Windows 10.
>>
>> Someone here [2] even managed to get Unity and Xfce on WSL so I think it
>> might actually be possible to run Sugar.
>>
>> [1] - https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/wsl/2016/07/08/bash-on-ubun
>> tu-on-windows-10-anniversary-update/
>>
>> [2] - https://github.com/microsoft/bashonwindows/issues/637
>>
>> Regards,
>> Yatin
>>
>> On Sun 2 Apr, 2017, 3:10 AM Samuel Greenfeld, <sam...@greenfeld.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> No; with all the thoughts of porting XOs to Fedora.next and having to
>>> look into ActivePython and such, I never got a chance to look into a proper
>>> Sugar .NET conversion.
>>>
>>> Besides with Sugarizer, we do not need a third language to maintain all
>>> the activities in.
>>>
>>> (It's amazing what you can do in Visual Studio within five minutes.)
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 5:32 PM, Samson Goddy < <samsongo...@gmail.com>
>>> samsongo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Look nice, that is awesome. Did you finish it?
>>>
>>> On Apr 1, 2017 10:19 PM, "Samuel Greenfeld" <sam...@greenfeld.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Looking around, I found the following code online:
>>>
>>> http://www.greenfeld.org/1April2017/SugarNET.png
>>>
>>> It doesn't seem to do much more than my previous port did [*], but it at
>>> least compiles.
>>>
>>> [*] http://www.greenfeld.org/1April2011/
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 3:48 PM, Samson Goddy <samsongo...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Lolz i guess, i am the king of pranks. Happy new month guys, hope you
>>> are enjoying your day.
>>>
>>> Samson
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 1, 2017 5:20 PM, "Walter Bender" < <walter.ben...@gmail.com>
>>> walter.ben...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I  think Samson was looking at the calendar  (April 1) when he posted
>>> this.
>>>
>>> On Apr 1, 2017 7:46 AM, "Love Mehta" < <lovemehta...@gmail.com>
>>> lovemehta...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Finally all the hard work is paying off. Soon, the time will come, when
>>> guys from Apple will be contacting Walter Sir. Let's keep up the good work.
>>>
>>> Greetings,
>>> Love
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 1, 2017 8:12 PM, "Utkarsh Tiwari" < <iamutkarshtiw...@gmail.com>
>>> iamutkarshtiw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Samson,
>&g

Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Sugar on Surface Pro (Microsoft Partnership)

[Samuel Greenfeld]

The short answer is yes; there are any number of ways (HTML app,
ActivePython .NET port, WSL, GTK for Windows, etc.) to port Sugar to
Windows.

Each has its own strengths and weaknesses.

The big question is if any of them are worth it.


On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 1:40 AM, Yatin Maan <yatinma...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey,
> I understand that this is an April fool's joke but with introduction on
> "Windows subsystem for Linux (WSL)"[1] I was wondering whether we might be
> able to directly run sugar on Windows 10.
>
> Someone here [2] even managed to get Unity and Xfce on WSL so I think it
> might actually be possible to run Sugar.
>
> [1] - https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/wsl/2016/07/08/bash-on-
> ubuntu-on-windows-10-anniversary-update/
>
> [2] - https://github.com/microsoft/bashonwindows/issues/637
>
> Regards,
> Yatin
>
> On Sun 2 Apr, 2017, 3:10 AM Samuel Greenfeld, <sam...@greenfeld.org>
> wrote:
>
>> No; with all the thoughts of porting XOs to Fedora.next and having to
>> look into ActivePython and such, I never got a chance to look into a proper
>> Sugar .NET conversion.
>>
>> Besides with Sugarizer, we do not need a third language to maintain all
>> the activities in.
>>
>> (It's amazing what you can do in Visual Studio within five minutes.)
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 5:32 PM, Samson Goddy <samsongo...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Look nice, that is awesome. Did you finish it?
>>
>> On Apr 1, 2017 10:19 PM, "Samuel Greenfeld" <sam...@greenfeld.org> wrote:
>>
>> Looking around, I found the following code online:
>>
>> http://www.greenfeld.org/1April2017/SugarNET.png
>>
>> It doesn't seem to do much more than my previous port did [*], but it at
>> least compiles.
>>
>> [*] http://www.greenfeld.org/1April2011/
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 3:48 PM, Samson Goddy <samsongo...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Lolz i guess, i am the king of pranks. Happy new month guys, hope you are
>> enjoying your day.
>>
>> Samson
>>
>>
>> On Apr 1, 2017 5:20 PM, "Walter Bender" <walter.ben...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I  think Samson was looking at the calendar  (April 1) when he posted
>> this.
>>
>> On Apr 1, 2017 7:46 AM, "Love Mehta" <lovemehta...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Finally all the hard work is paying off. Soon, the time will come, when
>> guys from Apple will be contacting Walter Sir. Let's keep up the good work.
>>
>> Greetings,
>> Love
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 1, 2017 8:12 PM, "Utkarsh Tiwari" <iamutkarshtiw...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Samson,
>>
>> Great news! This venture will definitely help us gain more popularity and
>> reach more Windows users
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Utkarsh Tiwari
>>
>> On Sat, 1 Apr 2017 at 20:08 Samson Goddy <samsongo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> According to [1], Microsoft wants to make a deal with Sugar Labs to
>> include Sugar on their Surface devices as an educational platform for
>> windows users. They contacted Walter, so he asked me to forward it to the
>> community.
>>
>> [1]https://goo.gl/4Ka694
>> ___
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>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>> Utkarsh Tiwari
>>
>> ___
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>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> i...@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> i...@lists.sugarlabs.org
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>>
>>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Sugar on Surface Pro (Microsoft Partnership)

[Samuel Greenfeld]

No; with all the thoughts of porting XOs to Fedora.next and having to look
into ActivePython and such, I never got a chance to look into a proper
Sugar .NET conversion.

Besides with Sugarizer, we do not need a third language to maintain all the
activities in.

(It's amazing what you can do in Visual Studio within five minutes.)

On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 5:32 PM, Samson Goddy <samsongo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Look nice, that is awesome. Did you finish it?
>
> On Apr 1, 2017 10:19 PM, "Samuel Greenfeld" <sam...@greenfeld.org> wrote:
>
>> Looking around, I found the following code online:
>>
>> http://www.greenfeld.org/1April2017/SugarNET.png
>>
>> It doesn't seem to do much more than my previous port did [*], but it at
>> least compiles.
>>
>> [*] http://www.greenfeld.org/1April2011/
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 3:48 PM, Samson Goddy <samsongo...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Lolz i guess, i am the king of pranks. Happy new month guys, hope you
>>> are enjoying your day.
>>>
>>> Samson
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 1, 2017 5:20 PM, "Walter Bender" <walter.ben...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I  think Samson was looking at the calendar  (April 1) when he posted
>>> this.
>>>
>>> On Apr 1, 2017 7:46 AM, "Love Mehta" <lovemehta...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Finally all the hard work is paying off. Soon, the time will come, when
>>> guys from Apple will be contacting Walter Sir. Let's keep up the good work.
>>>
>>> Greetings,
>>> Love
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 1, 2017 8:12 PM, "Utkarsh Tiwari" <iamutkarshtiw...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Samson,
>>>
>>> Great news! This venture will definitely help us gain more popularity
>>> and reach more Windows users
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Utkarsh Tiwari
>>>
>>> On Sat, 1 Apr 2017 at 20:08 Samson Goddy <samsongo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello all,
>>>>
>>>> According to [1], Microsoft wants to make a deal with Sugar Labs to
>>>> include Sugar on their Surface devices as an educational platform for
>>>> windows users. They contacted Walter, so he asked me to forward it to the
>>>> community.
>>>>
>>>> [1]https://goo.gl/4Ka694
>>>> ___
>>>> Sugar-devel mailing list
>>>> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
>>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Regards,
>>> Utkarsh Tiwari
>>>
>>> ___
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>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
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>>> i...@lists.sugarlabs.org
>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Sugar on Surface Pro (Microsoft Partnership)

[Samuel Greenfeld]

Looking around, I found the following code online:

http://www.greenfeld.org/1April2017/SugarNET.png

It doesn't seem to do much more than my previous port did [*], but it at
least compiles.

[*] http://www.greenfeld.org/1April2011/


On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 3:48 PM, Samson Goddy  wrote:

> Lolz i guess, i am the king of pranks. Happy new month guys, hope you are
> enjoying your day.
>
> Samson
>
>
> On Apr 1, 2017 5:20 PM, "Walter Bender"  wrote:
>
> I  think Samson was looking at the calendar  (April 1) when he posted this.
>
> On Apr 1, 2017 7:46 AM, "Love Mehta"  wrote:
>
> Finally all the hard work is paying off. Soon, the time will come, when
> guys from Apple will be contacting Walter Sir. Let's keep up the good work.
>
> Greetings,
> Love
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 1, 2017 8:12 PM, "Utkarsh Tiwari" 
> wrote:
>
> Hi Samson,
>
> Great news! This venture will definitely help us gain more popularity and
> reach more Windows users
>
> Cheers,
> Utkarsh Tiwari
>
> On Sat, 1 Apr 2017 at 20:08 Samson Goddy  wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> According to [1], Microsoft wants to make a deal with Sugar Labs to
>> include Sugar on their Surface devices as an educational platform for
>> windows users. They contacted Walter, so he asked me to forward it to the
>> community.
>>
>> [1]https://goo.gl/4Ka694
>> ___
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>> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>
> --
> Regards,
> Utkarsh Tiwari
>
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>
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>
>
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Smart way to get $$ for posting videos on youtube

[Samuel Greenfeld]

I'll ask for more details, but it probably is Hootsuite or one of their
competitors.

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/Social+Media+Guidelines

CloudStack's and the ASF's media & brand management policies probably are a
good set to start with as well.



On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 7:09 PM, Dave Crossland <d...@lab6.com> wrote:

>
> On 1 June 2016 at 17:07, Samuel Greenfeld <sam...@greenfeld.org> wrote:
>
>> I would have to ask to see what they are using.
>
>
> Please do! :)
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Smart way to get $$ for posting videos on youtube

[Samuel Greenfeld]

Ignoring if Sugar Labs wishes to be associated with ads for a second, we
probably should look into getting all Sugar Labs and potentially Sugarizer
media-publishing accounts turned into service or corporate accounts where
no single individual is in charge.

That way access to those services remains even if the person with said
access cannot provide it or is not immediately available.

I know at least one project under the Apache Software Foundation delegates
access to their Twitter account through an escrow system where no one knows
the actual password.  But I would have to ask to see what they are using.



On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 3:42 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> Hi
>
> I think this would be great - will you be able to generate new content for
> it, though? :)
>
> On 1 June 2016 at 13:31, samson goddy  wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I was surfing the youtube page "SugarLabs" i saw some Sugar videos with
>> so many views, which people are using our video to get funds. Which can
>> generate money for SugarLabs using the google adsense.  I can't believe
>> that up till now SugarLabs does not have any official account(channel) on
>> youtube. Using this link as guide
>> https://www.google.com/adsense/start/how-it-works/ on how to get cash.
>>
>>  these are the steps we need
>>
>> 1. A gmail account (or i can use mine because, i am already qualified for
>> google adsense)
>>
>> 2. Set up a SugarLabs channel on youtube where we post our official
>> videos.
>>
>> 3. Apply monetizing to the video to get money from the videos.
>>
>> Since we have a good relationship with Google (GCI and GSOC) maybe we can
>> add (Adsense) too.
>>
>> I just need the go ahead so i can get started.
>>
>> Best regards
>> Samson G
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Documents and Journal paths on sugar-build

[Samuel Greenfeld]

The one problem with extended attributes is that almost everything touching
and/or archiving the files needs to be aware of them.  Some utilities may
lack this functionality, and others have to be told to actively back these
up.

By means of example, XO laptops have to work around the fact that the ping
command in Fedora gets the permissions it needs via extended attributes for
the past several years.  The XO imaging solution is not extended attribute
aware, and at the time it was developed ping was still commonly set setuid
root.
On May 22, 2016 9:52 AM, "Sebastian Silva" 
wrote:

> Hi Utkarsh,
>
> Perhaps this is an area for improvement in Sugar. The journal datastore
> was designed to be more than it is now (see the git backend discussion).
>
> I always found very silly how Sugar tries very hard to hide files (even
> from the command line) when, in fact, it stores journal objects as files.
>
> It should be relatively simple to modify the Journal to save its objects
> as regular files, and store the metadata in "filesystem extended
> attributes"  (please look that up). I believe this would relieve a lot of
> confusion (in the ground) around the journal (like you are having). Perhaps
> Tony and the community can be convinced this is a good idea to implement.
>
> Please read in detail the Sugar Human Interface Guidelines, which describe
> the Sugar design in detail. Also read James Simmons
> Make-Your-Own-Sugar-Activities which describes a good attempt to make sense
> of the implementation from a Sugar Activity developer perspective.
> With regards to the Documents directory, *use the source, *look up in the
> journal code exactly how it decides. A good, standards compliant
> implementation would use the result of the `xdg-user-dir DOCUMENTS`
> command. Are you using system Sugar packages or sugar-build? sugar-build
> probably overrides this.
>
> Regards,
> Sebastian
>
> El 22/05/16 a las 05:55, Tony Anderson escribió:
>
> Hi, Utkarsh
>
> I may not be able to help. I am testing on an XO. However, the object is
> not to use direct paths which may vary between SOAS and Sugar on an XO.
>
> Documents should be ~/Documents.
> Journal objects are stored in ~/.sugar/default/datastore. However, if you
> only reference the datastore with the datastore class -that shouldn't be
> important.
>
> So you can write them with datastore to the Journal. For Documents, I use
> ~/Documents but there is a way to change the 'mount' in the datastore to
> use the
> Documents folder (or to use a USB key).
>
> Tony
>
> On 05/22/2016 12:27 PM, Ütkarsh Tiwari wrote:
>
> Hi,
>  I am unable to find the location where the sugar-build stores the
> Documents and Journal objects. I would also like to know how to copy
> the external files (.html, .txt, .png, .zip files - outside
> sugar-build) to Journal or Documents.
>
> P.S- I am on Ubuntu 15.04
>
> Thanks,
> Utkarsh Tiwari
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Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s {Windows}

[Samuel Greenfeld]

A more direct way to support Windows would be to use the Windows port of
the GTK toolkit.

This has been done before:
https://blogs.gnome.org/kittykat/2014/01/29/developing-gtk-3-apps-with-python-on-windows/

A GTK expert might be able to point us to the current preferred approach.


On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 9:59 AM, Sean DALY  wrote:

>
> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 1:59 AM, Tony Anderson 
> wrote:
>
>> This new capability is intended to eliminate the need for cygwin
>
>
>
> No doubt MS likes any initiative against Red Hat. I think they want to
> simplify server administration in a mixed-OS environment from a Windows
> console (ssh, rsync and the like) which is why default (and apparently
> only) permission profile is root.
>
> By the way MS has a long history of distributing a Unix-compatible command
> line. They purchased Interix in 1999 which later became Windows Services
> for Unix, and there has been support for it until... Windows 10. The funny
> part is, last time I checked about 8 years ago, there was GNU software in
> the package yet MS did not provide the corresponding source code, in
> violation of the license.
>
> My default shell in Cygwin is GNU bash v4.3 and in my day job it's a boon
> to inherit Windows drive mappings at the command line.
>
> Sean
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] GSoC proposal status

[Samuel Greenfeld]

Just for the record:

The XO laptop backup mechanism for Sugar creates separate
"datastore--MM-DD_HH:MM" directories for each backup.

If I recall correctly, the schoolserver also periodically looks through
these backups, hardlinks identical items to save space, and prunes backups
beyond a set age.

I wouldn't be against fixing and/or redesigning XO backup & restore, but at
least on an XS schoolserver these already are versioned.

I have not tried XSCE to see how it handles things.


On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 9:40 PM, Tony Anderson 
wrote:

> Hi, Sam
>
> Thanks for your comments. These issues need review and comment within the
> community.
>
> "Just my 2c, but this complicates the experience a lot.  Do we show this
> temp journal entry to the user?  If so, wouldn't that be confusing?  But it
> we hide it, it becomes more complex.  Eg, a user is adding the finishing
> touches to a diagram in Paint, and adds it to Write activity, however since
> only the old version is visible they don't see the image they expected, and
> become confused.  Maybe this could be better served by basic git features
> in the journal, one of Martin's project ideas I believe."
>
> What I suggest does not change the user's experience of the Journal.
>
> When an activity is launched, it runs as activity.py. If an activity is
> resumed (associated with a data file in the Journal), activity.py loads
> that Journal object. This is the object that is saved when the activity
> terminates. What I am suggesting is that
> activity.py should load a copy of the Journal object (which naturally does
> not exist in the Journal until saved). This enables the activity to make a
> decision to
> overwrite the original object or to save a new object.
>
> You may have noticed this in the Journal. When you resume and then save,
> that object is now the most recent and no longer appears in its original
> chronological position. This reflects that the original journal object is
> saved back to the Journal (normally, by write_file)
>
> The scenario you describe: using Paint and then saving to Write is
> intermediated by the Journal. Paint saves the modified image to the
> Journal. The Write activity then adds it to its document. There should be
> no confusion. Assuming the user gave the image a new name, causing a new
> object to be saved or the user saved in the same name, replacing the object
> in the Journal. If the user has doubt, as at present, he/she should run
> Image Viewer to see the image.
>
> I really don't see git as relevant to the Journal. The proven technique of
> using file names to distinguish objects is easier to implement and familiar
> to experienced computer users. There is nothing to prevent a user from
> using classproject.1, classproject.2,  to distinguish versions.
>
> "Browse save files work fine cross network connections.  I made one at
> home, and opening it at school I was able to show people all of my tabs."
>
> This worked because in both cases you are connected to the internet.
> Browse is saving urls. Had you opened Browse without a connection, you
> would have received an error. In last year's GSOC, Richa Sehgal added a
> capability to save an html page explicitly but this capability has not yet
> been integrated with Browse.
>
> "Using the metadata is also much harder, it is so easy to just chuck the
> json in there.  Even if we use metadata for eg, saving memorize, the
> metadata will be so activity specific that it is hard to use in a
> reflection tool.  I'm not sure what you want by this."
>
> I am trying to distinguish saving documents from saving state. Memorize
> needs to save state so that a user can resume a game. Naturally, state
> information is specific to the activity. However, it can be saved in the
> metadata record (saved in the Journal as a file). When resumed, Memorize
> can restore its state. Saving the state information as a document requires
> that it have a mime_type. This type would need to be unique to Memorize
> since no other activity would know how to process it (e.g. if it were saved
> as application/plain-text).
>
> As I understand reflection, the goal is to enable a user to look back at
> documents they created or worked on collaboratively. The Journal offers two
> impediments to that - clutter from non document-creating activities and the
> necessity to erase documents due to limited storage capacity. I think we
> need to distinguish between statistical analysis of a user's activities
> (the NSA use of metadata) and using the Journal to show the user a record
> of their own educational journey.
>
>
> "I have to agree with you here.  Having a kind of seamless journal that
> exists partially locally and fully on the school server would be nice.  But
> can a person designing this amuse that the user will have school server
> access most of the time?"
>
> The design is to invoke a backup service when the XO connects to the
> school server. This service recognizes 

Re: [Sugar-devel] Default Collaboration Server

[Samuel Greenfeld]

I don't see this as a change disabling gabble so much as a change where no
default jabber server is specified.  This forces salut (ad-hoc) to be used
until a jabber server is specified.

Given pretty much everyone who uses gabble outside of testing uses their
own local jabber server and not Sugar Labs', there should be no user impact
{apart from apps currently being broken with gabble staying broken until
fixed}.

On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 6:17 PM, Tony Anderson 
wrote:

> This is probably a correct analysis for those in the US with online
> broadband connection. However, at deployments which depend on the school
> server (those without internet access), gabble is needed to enable all XOs
> to collaborate. One of the first tests at a deployment is to ensure that
> XOs connected to the schoolserver are visible to each other (i.e. that
> gabble is working and not salut).
>
> Such a change needs a more thorough study. Should we limit collaboration
> to XOs with a common router (partition the LAN)? Does collaboration with
> salut work for XOs connected to the school server? Is it a reasonable
> restriction at a deployment that only some XOs can chat?
>
>
> Tony
>
>
> On 01/18/2016 12:14 PM, Sam P. wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> Currently Sugar defaults to using "jabber.sugarlabs.org" as a
> collaboration server in Sugar on a Stick and other GNU distros (fedora,
> debian, etc.).  However, I propose that we change the default (this
> release!) to use the local network (telepathy salut).  This is a feature is
> that is already in sugar, and is used on XOs and normal computers.
>
> Why?
>
> * Better activity support.  Tubes are supported by salut, but not by
> gabble (server based collab.).  This means that activities that haven't
> been ported this cycle (most of them) will still work under salut (proposed
> default), but will not work under gabble (current default)
>
> * More contextual neighbourhood view.  You only see people on your local
> WiFi (or wired) network.  This is more helpful for finding your friends
> than the trawling the crowded jabber.sugarlabs.org neighbourhood.
>
> * More features.  File transfers work via salut, but not via
> jabber.sugarlabs.org
>
> * More speed and less lag.  Jabber.sugarlabs.org is hosted in the mit.
> While that is good if you are a student at the mit, it is very laggy if you
> are in say Australia.  I prefer near instant collaberation provided by my
> local network.  Even if you are at the mit, your wifi router is still
> closer than jabber.sugarlabs.org (hopefully)
>
> * Privacy.  Users (specifically kids) aren't by default sharing their
> names and colours online and inviting others to send them things.
>
> Is this ok?  Will defaulting to use salut (local network) cause any issues
> for anyone?  Is this ok for the 108 cycle?
>
> Thanks,
> Sam
>
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Default Collaboration Server

[Samuel Greenfeld]

At least the way I would (minimally) consider implementing it, the default
Jabber server simply would be a blank string..

So either you would have to (1) choose "Register" from the home screen XO
character's right-click menu, (2) enter in an alternative Jabber/school
server's name in the Network Control Panel, or (3) programmatically insert
the alternative name into your XOs.

At one point I had an extension for OLPC OS builder to do the latter, as
well as replace the name "schoolserver" hardcoded in many OLPC utilities.
But said extension (if still around) probably is a bit out of date.


On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 6:35 PM, Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net>
wrote:

> Currently, ejabberd is used on the school server (with gabble). Does this
> change mean that something must be done on the XO or schoolserver to enable
> collaboration (it is now automatic)? So far as I know, the XO uses salut
> for ad hoc links and gabble with ejabberd. Generally, if it isn't broken,
> don't fix it.
>
> Tony
>
>
> On 01/19/2016 01:27 AM, Samuel Greenfeld wrote:
>
> I don't see this as a change disabling gabble so much as a change where no
> default jabber server is specified.  This forces salut (ad-hoc) to be used
> until a jabber server is specified.
>
> Given pretty much everyone who uses gabble outside of testing uses their
> own local jabber server and not Sugar Labs', there should be no user impact
> {apart from apps currently being broken with gabble staying broken until
> fixed}.
>
> On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 6:17 PM, Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net>
> wrote:
>
>> This is probably a correct analysis for those in the US with online
>> broadband connection. However, at deployments which depend on the school
>> server (those without internet access), gabble is needed to enable all XOs
>> to collaborate. One of the first tests at a deployment is to ensure that
>> XOs connected to the schoolserver are visible to each other (i.e. that
>> gabble is working and not salut).
>>
>> Such a change needs a more thorough study. Should we limit collaboration
>> to XOs with a common router (partition the LAN)? Does collaboration with
>> salut work for XOs connected to the school server? Is it a reasonable
>> restriction at a deployment that only some XOs can chat?
>>
>>
>> Tony
>>
>>
>> On 01/18/2016 12:14 PM, Sam P. wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Currently Sugar defaults to using "jabber.sugarlabs.org" as a
>> collaboration server in Sugar on a Stick and other GNU distros (fedora,
>> debian, etc.).  However, I propose that we change the default (this
>> release!) to use the local network (telepathy salut).  This is a feature is
>> that is already in sugar, and is used on XOs and normal computers.
>>
>> Why?
>>
>> * Better activity support.  Tubes are supported by salut, but not by
>> gabble (server based collab.).  This means that activities that haven't
>> been ported this cycle (most of them) will still work under salut (proposed
>> default), but will not work under gabble (current default)
>>
>> * More contextual neighbourhood view.  You only see people on your local
>> WiFi (or wired) network.  This is more helpful for finding your friends
>> than the trawling the crowded jabber.sugarlabs.org neighbourhood.
>>
>> * More features.  File transfers work via salut, but not via
>> jabber.sugarlabs.org
>>
>> * More speed and less lag.  Jabber.sugarlabs.org is hosted in the mit.
>> While that is good if you are a student at the mit, it is very laggy if you
>> are in say Australia.  I prefer near instant collaberation provided by my
>> local network.  Even if you are at the mit, your wifi router is still
>> closer than jabber.sugarlabs.org (hopefully)
>>
>> * Privacy.  Users (specifically kids) aren't by default sharing their
>> names and colours online and inviting others to send them things.
>>
>> Is this ok?  Will defaulting to use salut (local network) cause any
>> issues for anyone?  Is this ok for the 108 cycle?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sam
>>
>>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Announcing] UNSTABLE 0.107.1 release (feature freeze)

[Samuel Greenfeld]

In general, many widely used Sugar distributions are based on Operating
Systems that are at least a few years old and full of security holes.

Bringing them up to date for computers like XOs that need updated hardware
drivers would require a fair amount of effort.   (Hence the move by some
groups to standardized hardware and Ubuntu for long-term support.)

The primary mitigating factors {if you could count them as such} are that
(1) many Sugar users are offline or barely online, and (2) the obscurity of
someone trying to hack telepathy versus using a wider exploit against
something like libjpeg or OpenSSL.

But I wouldn't rely on obscurity as your sole protection.


On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 5:37 AM, Jonas Smedegaard  wrote:

> Quoting Sam P. (2016-01-04 16:34:33)
> > This is serious.  If an activity wants to work in collaboration mode
> > on a NEW version of telepathy gabble, it needs to be ported not to use
> > tubes.
> >
> > However, your activity will still work on OLPC OS 13/14, Fedora 21 and
> > before and on the current Debian (???).  Your activity will still work
> > everywhere in single user mode.
>
> Unchanged activities will *not* work on current Debian.  Not stable, not
> testing, and not unstable.  Nor will they work with Ubuntu.
>
> You might get them to work by adding "telepathy-gabble-legacy", but
> beware that that package is *old* and *unsupported* and *insecure*!
>
> Likewise, support for conventional tubes-based collaboration on other
> systems - OLPC OS and Fedora - makes use of an outdated version of
> telepathy Gabble, which potentially is highly insecure to use.
>
>
>  - Jonas
>
> --
>  * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
>  * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
>
>  [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Docker in Sugar/XO laptop

[Samuel Greenfeld]

It may be possible, but not officially supported:

http://mwhiteley.com/linux-containers/2013/08/31/docker-on-i386.html


On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 7:51 PM, James Cameron qu...@laptop.org wrote:

 Docker requires amd64, and none of the XO laptops are 64-bit, so it
 would not work.

 Docker also requires kernel 3.8 or later, and so even if the 64-bit
 limitation was removed there would be the kernel bringup work to be
 done.

 --
 James Cameron
 http://quozl.linux.org.au/
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Marketing] Sugar all-hands meeting

[Samuel Greenfeld]

On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 9:05 AM, Gonzalo Odiard gonz...@laptop.org wrote:

 I don't see how changing the communication media used for the meeting
 will get more people involved. In particular audio/video chat is worst
 than text
 when there are more people. But I agree we need more people in the
 meetings.


I am not saying every meeting needs to be video or voice; but it would be
good to have some variety once in a while.

There are a lot of minor details communicated in verbal and visual
communication that do not translate well to text.


1. What is being done to attract new deployments, developers (besides
GSoC) and project sponsors.


2. I would like to propose a Sugar Ambassador program similar to
the Fedora one where less-technical members of the community could engage
with other groups to figure out what they would need to use Sugar.  This
does not necessarily mean that we need to fly them everywhere; but it 
 would
give us a good idea of what might be required to obtain gain certain types
of deployments.



 Did you think about run for a seat in the SLOB?

 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Oversight_Board/2014-2015-candidates


I have considered it, but there are two obstacles:

First, my current employer requires me to obtain permission from them to be
on the board of a non-profit.  This is not insurmountable, but likely
requires proving (amongst other things) that I can completely isolate Sugar
from anything my employer pays me to do for all hours that my employer pays
me to work.

Second, I would like to see some more public signs of organic growth
besides the Google events before I commit more than a few hours per week.
My available time outside of work is limited, and I have no intention of
providing free labor for someone's unknown customer.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar all-hands meeting

[Samuel Greenfeld]

Looking at past minutes, I think I am proposing more of a change in
procedure than topics for the oversight meeting.  We need to get more
people involved than are present in the IRC meetings.

In general I am echoing what was said on the Planning for the Future
email thread from three months ago.

But some topics (for the oversight meeting or an all-hands meeting) would
be:


   1. What can Sugar publicly commit to having in terms of
   users/developers/finances/etc. beyond what was mentioned in the deployment
   survey.

   Witness Dan's complaints over the 3 million number, James noting no one
   filed a bug report for Sugar 0.105.1 yet, the lack of candidates for past
   elections, the lack of interaction between the XS development and Sugar
   development communities, etc.

   It also would be useful to know what users/developers/etc. could
   publicly commit to Sugar.


   2. What is being done to address the main issues raised by deployments
   in the latest development survey.


   3. A complete holistic overhaul of how releases are done and marketed.
   Sugar was originally created with a if you build it, they will come
   approach that many community members have at least privately complained
   about.

   We need real-world examples of how to integrate Sugar with curriculums,
   reference deployments willing to speak with prospective ones, etc.

   Setting up Sugar needs to be no harder than a child using it for the
   first time.


   4. What is being done to attract new deployments, developers (besides
   GSoC) and project sponsors.


   5. I would like to propose a Sugar Ambassador program similar to the
   Fedora one where less-technical members of the community could engage with
   other groups to figure out what they would need to use Sugar.  This does
   not necessarily mean that we need to fly them everywhere; but it would give
   us a good idea of what might be required to obtain gain certain types of
   deployments.



On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 1:47 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com
wrote:

 The next Sugar Labs oversight board meeting is on Monday. Anyone in the
 community is, as always, welcome to suggest discussion topics.

 -walter

 On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 1:28 PM, Samuel Greenfeld sam...@greenfeld.org
 wrote:

 I know there have been various board and development meetings for Sugar.

 But I would like to propose having an all-hands meeting where anyone in
 the Sugar community as well as related groups (deployments, schoolserver,
 etc.) could raise a topic and attend.

 If there are few enough people, we might be able to do this with a Google
 Hangout.  For larger crowds we should try to get permission to use an
 international conference bridge (to avoid a dozen echo cancelers getting
 confused by each other).

 There are a lot of things that need to be done that I suspect could
 happen given a wider audience.

 ---
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[Sugar-devel] Sugar all-hands meeting

[Samuel Greenfeld]

I know there have been various board and development meetings for Sugar.

But I would like to propose having an all-hands meeting where anyone in
the Sugar community as well as related groups (deployments, schoolserver,
etc.) could raise a topic and attend.

If there are few enough people, we might be able to do this with a Google
Hangout.  For larger crowds we should try to get permission to use an
international conference bridge (to avoid a dozen echo cancelers getting
confused by each other).

There are a lot of things that need to be done that I suspect could happen
given a wider audience.

---
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Re: [Sugar-devel] SOAS Fedora 22 Final Release: Collaboration in Activities

[Samuel Greenfeld]

This keeps coming up.

I believe that due to changes in telepathy, collaboration (at least for
Jabber) has not worked for the past few Fedora releases.

Given collaboration is supposed to be one of the core features of Sugar,
this makes it hard to promote.


On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 12:36 AM, James Cameron qu...@laptop.org wrote:

 On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 04:11:45AM +, tkk...@nurturingasia.com wrote:
  Okay, and please bear with me; I don't have the data quota to download
  SOAS images; but is the Server entry box in the Collaboration section
  of the Network panel of the My Settings set or is it blank?
 
  It has the jabber.sugalabs.org and I have blank it out first for my
  testing.

 So if you do not blank it out, but leave it as it is, and allow it to
 connect to jabber.sugarlabs.org, everything works fine?

 (When I do that on other than SOAS, there are many icons on
 neighbourhood view.  I'm able to invite the other non-XO to chat, and
 it works fine.)

 If using jabber.sugarlabs.org works fine on SOAS, then this is not so
 severe a problem.

  I registered the two SOAS-22 with the schoolserver. Both shows in
  the neighbourhood BUT a shared activity will not show (it showed
  when it is not registered befroe) in the neighbourhood. I use 2
  registered XO and the shared activities will show. The SOAS can join
  but will not work as in my previous setting. The XO collaboration
  works OK.

 Thanks.  I agree it sounds like a problem specific to Fedora 22 or
 SOAS.

  Okay, that's interesting.
 
  Ha .. you love interesting stuff to troubleshoot. Hope the issue get
  sorted out or we are losing a great feature.

 Peter would be able to tell us for sure, but my guess is that it won't
 be fixed before this spin of SOAS is released.

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Community XO software builds

[Samuel Greenfeld]

There are at least two types of deployments/customers that Sugar has.

The first is the small, volunteer group.  To them, it doesn't matter what
OS they actually are using, or (to some extent) how well tested things
are.  They just want to come in, try something with their students, and if
they need to tweak something or something breaks, it's no big deal.

The second is the large deployment.  And large deployments, like large
corporations, do not want to deploy Sugar widely unless they have a chance
to thoroughly check it out.


First, they might investigate a bit to see who currently uses Sugar, and if
there are any other users they can get recommendations from.  Then they
might look into Sugar Labs, asking about Sugar's history, what warranties
were available, the future roadmap for features, etc.  They may insist on
having a face-to-face meeting with a Sugar representative, where they could
ask detailed questions.

You might laugh but when the OLPC Association was actively answering bids
for laptops, this dance happened all the time.

When large corporations sell things to each other, support can be
everything.  It doesn't mean that they are going to use it.  But if they
need a patch for critical bug on the President's laptop, or the latest
Shellshock or Heartbleed that their bosses' boss' saw in the news, they
want to have something or someone they can point to definitely get support.

Very few deployments have invested in the resources to internally make
their own OS images at that level of detail.


I don't want to go into it too much in this email, but dealing with large
organizations can be a very different thing.



On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 1:37 AM, Tony Anderson tony_ander...@usa.net wrote:

 I don't know what is puzzling. I can understand a deployment wanting
 assurance of long-term support for Sugar. I doubt there are many
 deployments that even know what Fedora or Ubuntu means. Even fewer that
 understand the difference between SugarLabs and Red Hat or Canonical as
 sources of this support.

 The word deployment may be a puzzle, In some cases it as a national
 ministry or OLPC Australia. For most of us, it is a school or other
 institution which has acquired OLPC laptops and is attempting to make use
 of them.

 There are many deployments which have never updated their image. In
 general, an update to an XO requires someone to come to the school
 with the technical expertise to do so. I am sure there are schools which
 have never seen such a visitor since they received their laptops.
 The positive element is that the laptops work as they always have. The
 downside, of course, is that the users have no chance to benefit from
 the new capabilities available from current releases.

 Finally, what urgent security fixes are required by a deployment with no
 access to the internet?

 Tony


 On 05/08/2015 12:55 AM, sugar-devel-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org wrote:

 When I talked with deployments and they ask for Ubuntu,
 and I ask why, what they really want is Long Time Support.
 No deployment change their image more than once a year.
 In fact, change a image is a logistic challenge for most of
 the big/middle size deployments.?

 This continues to puzzle me.  LTS is a stream of security updates, and
 you say the deployments do not apply them until the next year?

 And yet they want them?

 They want something they don't use?


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Community XO software builds

[Samuel Greenfeld]

I will try to answer some questions.  But my last two points will only
raise new ones.


   1. There are a few purposes for the community build.  The first is that
   for a while, all the OLPC builds announced seemed to be private ones
   available upon request.  It therefore was necessary to see if builds were
   still possible without the private extensions, and how well they worked.

   A second is that I actually build against a local mirror.  This mirror
   was created back when it was uncertain if OLPC would keep the MIT servers,
   and expanded when said servers started running into problems.  (These
   issues have since been resolved.)

   OLPC has and may still have an automatic backup; but I recall others
   having to stop it from accidentally pulling corrupted data in the past.

   Although it only has a subset of the public OLPC content available
   anonymously, building against my mirror makes sure that it still works and
   that it is periodically made up to date.


   2. I have uploaded the .ini files I use to
   http://www.greenfeld.org/xo/community/builds/14.1.0/olpc-os-builder/ .
   But there is nothing in them that you could not derive from the
   olpc-14.1.0*.ini files already in olpc-os-builder.

   The .zd SD card image for XO-1 build 2 is next to it's .img file.

   I added a pause at the end of kspost.75.install_bundles.inc so I can
   tweak the XO-1 image and remove some of the larger activities.  But this is
   temporary for debugging only.


   3. Since I am based in the US, I cannot generate images with the
   multimedia items due to patents.  At best I could give you instructions
   similar to how OLPC already does.

   I vaguely recall all XO-4's might be licensed for many multimedia codecs
   but it would be up to OLPC to make those images more widely available.


   4. Personally I would argue that a CentOS or another long-term build may
   be the best approach for XOs.  Sugar is in EPEL 6, and likely could be
   added to EPEL 7.

   It should surprise no one at this point that the list of personnel on
   OLPC's web site is years out of date.  There may be more people working on
   XSCE at the moment than XO laptop software.

   Given the lack of personnel and resources I believe it would be best to
   do one final build for XO-1 through XO-4 based on a LTS distribution
   supported to at least 2020, and then only minor security/fixes after that.


   5. OLPC already is looking beyond the XO, and beyond Fedora.  If you
   look at dev.laptop.org closely, you might notice a bunch of tickets
   targeted for su-15.1 as well as a new olpc-ubuntu-sugar-builder git tree
   meant for standard PCs.

   This appears to be an Sugar 0.104/Ubuntu 14.04 LTS build with anti-theft
   provided by a secure-boot-based EFI bootloader, not Open Firmware.

   While I am not thrilled that this has been done without the historical
   community's involvement, it likely matches the need of the XO Infinity or
   another client who currently pays the bills.

   It might be possible for this new builder to be eventually taught to
   handle XOs.

   But if OLPC is looking beyond the XO-4, perhaps it's time that Sugar do
   so as well.

   More information can be found at http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/12881





On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 7:18 PM, James Cameron qu...@laptop.org wrote:

 On Wed, May 06, 2015 at 10:49:47AM -0400, Adam Holt wrote:
  They all seem to want a better browser and better codec support to
  view various+sundry videos, within Sugar ideally, but if that's not
  possible then within Gnome.  One group per week asks me for the
  above, above all else (often more than one deployment/group per
  week).

 Why isn't this reaching me and the people who would do something about
 it?  Please count these requests, deidentify and aggregate them, and
 report them monthly on devel@ or sugar-devel@

  But if CentOS is not realistically achievable, F22 might be more
  appropriate, given it's final freeze is supposed to be less than 1
  week away?

 The size of this task (F22) has not yet been estimated, but based on
 Samuel's write up, my guess is between 10 and 50 engineer hours.

 There may be other problems lurking.

 The Fedora 20 port just on XO-4 has consumed way more than this.

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Community XO software builds

[Samuel Greenfeld]

The obvious counterargument would be that a deployment might want to deploy
your XO-Next (whatever it is) alongside existing XO laptops, allowing all
of them to have the same configuration.

There's plenty of blame to go around in terms of re-inventing the wheel and
lack of communication.

There simply (and correct me if I'm wrong) are not the resources inside of
OLPC, outside, or combined at this time to maintain and update two separate
builds  build systems.

It amazes me how far we bend over backwards to avoid saying end of life
and end of support.


I have seen a fair amount of interest, both publicly and privately, for
newer XO laptop builds.  But I don't think the requesters realize how much
work it takes to make one.

And I do not forsee anyone stepping up to get the XO-1.75 and XO-4 kernel 
drivers into a state they can be upstreamed or upgraded for newer Fedoras
unless a deployment really wants this instead of newer equipment.

Newer operating systems tend to require more disk space and RAM than the
predecessors.  We have seen this even within Fedora's lineage.


Since OLPC already appears to be going the Ubuntu LTS route, I would argue
it would be easiest to take everything that way, porting utilities as
required, and make that the final image  build system for XOs.

I only have a limited number of hours per week I can look into OLPC things,
but I'm tempted to take a look.






On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 10:50 PM, James Cameron qu...@laptop.org wrote:

 On Wed, May 06, 2015 at 09:29:46PM -0400, Samuel Greenfeld wrote:
  It might be possible for this new builder to be eventually taught to
  handle XOs.

 There was no significant interest in my previous builder uxo, which
 already knows how to handle XOs.  The recent posts on devel@ of people
 trying something similar without looking at uxo is further evidence of
 that.

 So for the moment, there seems to be no need for my new builder to
 handle XO-1, XO-1.5, XO-1.75 or XO-4 laptops.  The Fedora based
 builder is working fine for those laptops.

 --
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 http://quozl.linux.org.au/

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[Sugar-devel] Community XO software builds

[Samuel Greenfeld]

I saw some discussion last week about the community XO software builds.

This seems to be something which gets many people excited.

However according to my web server, there have not been very many downloads
of them.

If I may ask:

   - Who actually is using/testing these images?
   - Why?
   - Is there a reason you are not looking into using an official (OLPC or
   deployment) build?
   - Have you engaged OLPC or another party to work on changes?
   - What direction do you believe the builds should go?

Building XO builds by repacking existing work is relatively trivial.

But the low-level kernel, driver, and OS work necessary to support XOs with
newer operating systems (as well as newer XO batteries) is something I
cannot do, and where we really need help.

Without guidance from OLPC or others, I could build thousands of XO-#
laptop images.  But unless it looks like a significant number of
deployments/children actually would benefit, there really is no point.

---
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Re: [Sugar-devel] XO Fedora 22 Beta work

[Samuel Greenfeld]

James and I looked a bit into the systemd issue last night  discovered the
same.  This was discussed at
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2014-May/048180.html

A solution to solve this may be tricky.  Currently no one may be available
to look into getting newer Linux kernels working on XOs.  And if a newer
kernel was tweaked for XOs and brought in, extensive testing against
multiple XO models  variants (wireless cards/cameras/memory chips/etc.)
would be required.

Bringing in an older systemd with userspace firmware loading support might
be easier in the short term, but could break RPMs dependent on newer
systemd versions.

I don't know what resources OLPC has internally at the moment, but this may
be beyond what part-time volunteers can do, especially if support is
desired for XO models which OLPC no longer sells.


On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 6:05 PM, Dennis Gilmore den...@ausil.us wrote:

 On Saturday, April 25, 2015 10:36:49 PM Peter Robinson wrote:
  On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 5:10 AM, Samuel Greenfeld sam...@greenfeld.org
 wrote:
   At James' suggestion I looked a bit into a Fedora 22 beta build.  I
 have
   found the following problems so far getting the RPM dependencies worked
   out:
  
   olpc-library needs to depend on python-jinja2, not python-jinja.  The
   olpc-library RPM also was removed from Fedora, perhaps due to lack of
   changes  abandonment.
 
  Likely, I didn't even know it existed.
 
   totem-mozplugin no longer exists and was intentionally removed.  Given
   Firefox supports various media codecs internally this might not be a
   problem for it (apart for vmeta?); but I don't know what webkit-based
   Browse uses for media players.
 
  Gstreamer based as well so I don't see any major issue there except if
  vmeta doesn't support gstreamer 1.0
 
   xorg-x11-drv-keyboard and -mouse have been replaced by
   xorg-x11-drv-libinput.  See
   https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/LibinputForXorg
 
  Works fine on SoaS, although I think there might be a need to migrate
  Control Panel bits, I did send an email about it some time ago to
  devel@
 
   14.1.0 has custom F20 systemd binaries, but I am having trouble finding
   information as to why.  If they have relevant changes they need to be
   ported to F22 if not already present because using the F20 systemd
   binaries breaks all sorts of library dependencies.
 
  The reason is due to changes in firmware loading changes in the kernel
  and the fact the XO kernels haven't been rebased to something more
  modern than 3.0+
 
   Patches have been written for the first three that I could submit.
  
   We need to come up with a clear direction as to what volunteers and/or
   OLPC
   want  would actually use for updated XO builds.  I only have the time
 to
   focus on one set of images.
 
  I can help on anything needed that's in Fedora in terms of adding
  patches there so you don't need to fork but similarly I don't have
  much time.

 with Fedora.NEXT we may be able to look at making OLPC builds be an
 official
 part of Fedora, tirckiest bit I think would be the kernel. Long term I
 think
 it would be good for both OLPC and Fedora for this to happen.

 Dennis
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[Sugar-devel] Fedora Flock Conference

[Samuel Greenfeld]

Are we planning to do anything with Sugar at the Fedora Flock Conference
(August 12-15, Rochester NY - www.flocktofedora.org) this year?

The call for talks just ended although it might be possible to sneak one in.

Depending on interest there may be a bus from the RedHat Westford, MA
office to the conference.

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[Sugar-devel] XO Fedora 22 Beta work

[Samuel Greenfeld]

At James' suggestion I looked a bit into a Fedora 22 beta build.  I have
found the following problems so far getting the RPM dependencies worked out:

   - olpc-library needs to depend on python-jinja2, not python-jinja.  The
   olpc-library RPM also was removed from Fedora, perhaps due to lack of
   changes  abandonment.
   - totem-mozplugin no longer exists and was intentionally removed.  Given
   Firefox supports various media codecs internally this might not be a
   problem for it (apart for vmeta?); but I don't know what webkit-based
   Browse uses for media players.
   - xorg-x11-drv-keyboard and -mouse have been replaced by
   xorg-x11-drv-libinput.  See
   https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/LibinputForXorg
   - 14.1.0 has custom F20 systemd binaries, but I am having trouble
   finding information as to why.  If they have relevant changes they need to
   be ported to F22 if not already present because using the F20 systemd
   binaries breaks all sorts of library dependencies.

Patches have been written for the first three that I could submit.

We need to come up with a clear direction as to what volunteers and/or OLPC
want  would actually use for updated XO builds.  I only have the time to
focus on one set of images.
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[Sugar-devel] Community OS 14.1.0 Version 2

[Samuel Greenfeld]

I have updated the XO-1/1.5/1.75/4 images I previously made.

The updated images can be found at
http://www.greenfeld.org/xo/community/builds/14.1.0/build_2/

Again, these images are not supported by OLPC.

It would be useful to know who actually might actually deploy these images,
as there has not been much of a response so far.  There are relatively few
people working on XO software at the moment, and we need more help in order
to create a polished release.

Bug reports about these images can be filed in dev.laptop.org with the
commbuild keyword.

Changes from the last build:

   - Sugar 0.104 is now included.
   - The language control panel problem appears to just be a first-boot
   issue.  If broken, rebooting should allow the language control panel to
   work.
   - On XO-1, the Linux kernel has been downgraded to a Fedora 18/Linux 3.8
   OLPC/XO kernel to solve the excess CPU usage.  But mesh networking is not
   coming online, and collaboration on XO-1 may be more generally broken.

Known major issues still outstanding:

   - The XO-1.5 camera (OLPC #12858) and suspend (OLPC #12859) problems
   still exist.
   - On XO-4, programs may randomly crash (OLPC #12837).
   - On XO-4, the on-screen keyboard does not appear in ebook mode, and
   cannot be used (OLPC #12865).
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Community OS 14.1.0 Version 2

[Samuel Greenfeld]

No this isn't the build that runs off an SD card.

If there is that much interest I will re-build the XO-1 image with the
additional SD card image tonight.

Apart from the XO-1, the olpc-os-builder configurations I am using are
basically what you see in OLPC's Git repository, with the xx changed to
qq and Community Build added as the name of the deployment.


On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 9:20 AM, Sebastian Silva sebast...@fuentelibre.org
wrote:

 Downloading

 http://www.greenfeld.org/xo/community/builds/14.1.0/build_2/xo-1/41002qq0.img
 for XO1 now.

 Is this the one that runs off of SD card?

 I'm interested for Perú, but as you can imagine, it doesn't depend on
 me. Our team (Platform team + SomosAzucar) did build the last official
 image Peru is using so who knows.

 Just for your reference, we built the image in 2011, they tested it (and
 we fixed it) all 2012 and they deployed it in 2013-2014.

 It would be good to make something available that is more up to date,
 even if it's not an official update.

 Regards,
 Sebastian


 El 05/03/15 a las 07:06, James Cameron escibió:
  On Thu, Mar 05, 2015 at 06:55:13AM -0500, Samuel Greenfeld wrote:
  The updated images can be found at
 http://www.greenfeld.org/xo/community/
  builds/14.1.0/build_2/
  I've heard there may be one or two microdeployments some interested in
  SD card builds on XO-1.  If you want to cover that, add the module
  [sd_card_image] to your .ini file.  Let me know if it is broken.
 


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Community OS 14.1.0 Version 2

[Samuel Greenfeld]

No; these are unsigned images which only can be installed on unlocked
laptops via fs-update (such as fs-update u:\41002qq4.zd if the image is
in the root directory of a USB stick).

These images also do not have the licensed codecs or accelerated video
drivers OLPC has obtained for XO-4s and certain deployment's older XOs, as
these are not distributed publicly.

The activities I have are what James chose at
wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/14.1.0 , minus Wikipedia and Physics on the
XO-1.

In general we need to determine what should be include in the XO-1 builds,
as the internal flash storage only has 1 GB of space.  Over time newer
versions of Fedora have resulted in larger XO images, and there is only so
much we can do to compensate for that.


On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 9:30 AM, Thomas Gilliard satelli...@gmail.com
wrote:

  Don't I need a fs4.zip also?

 Tom Gilliard

 On 03/05/2015 06:25 AM, Samuel Greenfeld wrote:

  No this isn't the build that runs off an SD card.

  If there is that much interest I will re-build the XO-1 image with the
 additional SD card image tonight.

  Apart from the XO-1, the olpc-os-builder configurations I am using are
 basically what you see in OLPC's Git repository, with the xx changed to
 qq and Community Build added as the name of the deployment.


 On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 9:20 AM, Sebastian Silva sebast...@fuentelibre.org
  wrote:

 Downloading

 http://www.greenfeld.org/xo/community/builds/14.1.0/build_2/xo-1/41002qq0.img
 for XO1 now.

 Is this the one that runs off of SD card?

 I'm interested for Perú, but as you can imagine, it doesn't depend on
 me. Our team (Platform team + SomosAzucar) did build the last official
 image Peru is using so who knows.

 Just for your reference, we built the image in 2011, they tested it (and
 we fixed it) all 2012 and they deployed it in 2013-2014.

 It would be good to make something available that is more up to date,
 even if it's not an official update.

 Regards,
 Sebastian


 El 05/03/15 a las 07:06, James Cameron escibió:
   On Thu, Mar 05, 2015 at 06:55:13AM -0500, Samuel Greenfeld wrote:
  The updated images can be found at
 http://www.greenfeld.org/xo/community/
  builds/14.1.0/build_2/
  I've heard there may be one or two microdeployments some interested in
  SD card builds on XO-1.  If you want to cover that, add the module
  [sd_card_image] to your .ini file.  Let me know if it is broken.
 




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Re: [Sugar-devel] Planning for the future (Samuel Greenfeld)

[Samuel Greenfeld]

 a
  clear engagement on web and open source and Google because of their wish
 to
  embrace education with Chrome. We need to ask help from them.
  Experiment: we need to start deployment as soon as possible to
 demonstrate.
  At OLPC France, we've got ambition to start a first experimental
 deployment
  of Sugarizer before the end of the year.
 
 
 
  All of us spent years on promoting the Sugar philosophy. We have the
 choice
  to look backward or look forward. My choice is clear: with Sugar for the
 Web
  I will give to every children the same opportunities I gave to XO users.
 
 
  Best regards from France.
 
 
 Lionel.
 
 
 
 
  Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2015 18:36:34 -0500
  From: Samuel Greenfeld sam...@greenfeld.org
  To: IAEP SugarLabs i...@lists.sugarlabs.org
  Subject: [IAEP] Planning for the future
  Message-ID:
 
  CA+cAqjM7=hqou47mhmr9aqtnbzkrmjdb00nxbzennbo+1wk...@mail.gmail.com
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
 
  Disclaimer: The following are my views, and not the views of my current
 or
  past employers.
 
  About a year ago, I privately expressed concern that Sugar needed to
  ensure
  it had long-term sponsorship and a long-term user base.
 
  Since then, both the historical US-based OLPC organization and Sugar
 Labs
  have not publicly said much about their long-term plans, with OLPC also
  being rather closemouthed about the present.
 
  Meanwhile contributors silently leave.  It is hard to justify
 volunteering
  when you don't know who will benefit besides mysterious customers.
 
  Everyone seems happy to cite their past successes.  No one corrects the
  press when they report stale information in their favor.
 
 
  There is no shame in being a smaller project.  But we need to ask the
 hard
  questions.  With Sugar, getting users and developers for a niche
 platform
  is a problem.  With OLPC, everyone seems to love repeating the 2 or 2.5
  million number for laptops historically shipped.  Rarely is it asked how
  many XOs been shipped in the past year or are in active use  where.
 
  Sugar  OLPC need to come up with long-term strategies.  While there is
  nothing public I have seen stopping One Education's XO Infinity from
  running Sugar, I haven't seen anything stopping it from running anything
  else.  It is also unclear how much One Education is willing to engage
 with
  the historical Sugar  OLPC communities (or how much they can tell us at
  this time).
 
 
  Historically there have been many philosophical questions like Does
 there
  need to be a physical machine? and Have we succeeded if every child
 has
  a
  computer, but from someone else?
 
  I do not believe Sugar or OLPC is down for the count.  But in order to
  engage One Education, governments, and other educational groups, both
  Sugar
  and the historical OLPC structure need to have plans to transition to
 the
  future.  Otherwise these plans will be written for us.
 
  I suspect I know how things will end; but I wish it was not happening
  though silence.
 
  ---
  SJG
  -- next part --
  An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
  URL:
  
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/attachments/20150223/bc9915cb/attachment-0001.html
 
 
  --
 
  Message: 2
  Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2015 02:31:23 -0300
  From: Gonzalo Odiard godi...@sugarlabs.org
  To: Sora Edwards-Thro s...@unleashkids.org
  Cc: Chris Leonard c...@sugarlabs.org, grassroots
  grassro...@lists.laptop.org,  olpc-open
  olpc-o...@lists.laptop.org,
  Aaron Borden adbor...@live.com,   olpc-sf
  olpc...@lists.laptop.org,
  iaep i...@lists.sugarlabs.org,Nick Doiron
  ndoi...@mapmeld.com
  Subject: Re: [IAEP] OLPC-SF February meeting
  Message-ID:
 
  CAJ+iPVSKb3puCeQc57Kc3TUA4Df1=akvtwdpt0abj-aqruh...@mail.gmail.com
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
 
  Only a English version is available right now.
 
  There are another activity with a older version in French, but the last
  version is from 2009
  http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4195
 
 
 
  On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 12:44 PM, Sora Edwards-Thro 
 s...@unleashkids.org
  wrote:
 
   Gonzalo, if a French translation exists and it's easy to include both
 it
   and the English translations when making the templates, that would be
   great. But if there's only room for one language, please have it be
   English.
  
   Thanks!
  
   On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 9:12 AM, Gonzalo Odiard 
 godi...@sugarlabs.org
   wrote:
  
   Thanks Nick.
  
  
   On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 11:11 AM, Nick Doiron ndoi...@mapmeld.com
   wrote:
  
   I believe the official language code is HT
   On Feb 23, 2015 9:09 AM, Gonzalo Odiard godi...@sugarlabs.org
   wrote:
  
   I can create the templates to do the translation and sent to you.
   Or I can upload and you can translate them online.
   The process is a little different than with the pottle server used
 to
   translate activities,
   but the idea is the same

Re: [Sugar-devel] OLPC Software

[Samuel Greenfeld]

I am not certain if this is what you are referring to, but
olpc-switch-desktop is at

http://dev.laptop.org/git/projects/olpc-switch-desktop/


On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 1:45 PM, Chris Leonard cjlhomeaddr...@gmail.com
wrote:

 I'm wondering where the component called OLPC Software currently
 resides.  It is the collection of bits that manage the dual boot into
 Gnome or Sugar on an XO laptop.

 As we do support many dual boot XO laptops, it would be good if it
 followed Sugar into migrating over to github and got set up for L10n
 in Pootle.  Of course, finding where it currently lives is just the
 first step.

 cjl
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Device's Universally Unique Identifier

[Samuel Greenfeld]

Just be careful with what you do with unique identifiers.  Having a unique
identifier for a device is often considered the same as uniquely
identifying a child.

Many countries have laws about what can be collected from younger children
without permission from their parent or school.  This permission has to be
given in a manner that children cannot intentionally or accidentally do
themselves.

This is why many websites including Google (in most cases) and Facebook do
not allow children under 13 to have accounts, and do not let parents create
accounts for them.

So while using a unique identifier may be safe within a local system,
centrally collecting information about Sugar users by default may not be.

---
SJG
On Jul 24, 2014 9:59 AM, Puneet Kaur puneet.gk...@gmail.com wrote:

 also targeting the xo's right now, so the serial number should suffice :-)


 On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 7:28 PM, Puneet Kaur puneet.gk...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Thanks Gonzalo,

 will use serial number as pointed by you.


 and with reference to the points raised by James, we'll assume that we
 are running a single instance of sugar on a xo. ( we can surely make it
 better once the basic flow is there :-) )



 On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 5:37 PM, Gonzalo Odiard godi...@sugarlabs.org
 wrote:

 If Sugar is used in a XO, there are a unique id and you can get it as
 here:


 https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/blob/master/extensions/cpsection/aboutcomputer/model.py#L52

 Maybe in the case of non xos, you can use the mac address of the active
 network interface?

 Gonzalo


 On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 4:56 AM, James Cameron qu...@laptop.org wrote:

 On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 01:15:28PM +0530, Puneet Kaur wrote:
  Can someone please tell that which number out of serial_number,
  build_number and firmware_number would correspond to the Device's
  Universally Unique Identifier ?
 
  I need a number which is unique to each device, need it to implement
  the cordova device plugin for sugar - subpart of the sugar cordova
  project these 3 numbers (serial_number, build_number and
  firmware_number) can be retrieved from
  sugar/extensions/cpsection/aboutcomputer/mode.py , but which out of
  these correspond to the unique number of each device ?

 None of them do, because Sugar can be used on hardware which does not
 provide a serial number, and more than one instance of Sugar can be
 used on devices that do provide a serial number.  You must find
 another way to ensure uniqueness, such as registration to a central
 authority database.

 The aboutcomputer control panel section contains legacy code specific
 to the OLPC XO laptop.  You should not design on that basis alone.

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Re: [Sugar-devel] [support-gang] Does wireless missed scans problem apply in XO-1 to XO-1.5 via ad-hoc ?

[Samuel Greenfeld]

The Mayan numeral Ad-hoc icon for a network should appear on a XO-1 --
but only if another nearby computer without mesh capability (such as an
XO-1.5) has connected to that Ad-hoc network first.

There may be a delay before a XO-1 which is configured to default to mesh
networking sees the ad-hoc network is active due to the need to spot it
during a periodic network scan.

But yes it is probably easiest to use an access point.



On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 10:32 PM, James Cameron qu...@laptop.org wrote:

 On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 10:23:05PM -0400, Nathan C. Riddle wrote:
  Appears XO-1 (13.2.0) cannot connect to XO-1.5 (13.2.0)  as  viewing
  in Neighborhood View (Mesh).  Specifically, ad-hoc icon does not
  appear on XO-1 and XO-1 icon does not appear on XO-1.5.   It all
  works if an XO-1.5 (11.3.0) is also present  and both work
  individually with XO-1.5 (11.3.0).
 
  Is wireless missed scans problem playing a role here, where ad-hoc
  corresponds to AP?

 No, the problem you describe is entirely due to the XO-1 using 802.11s
 mesh and the XO-1.5 using 802.11g ad-hoc.  The two methods are
 incompatible and do not interoperate.  This was always the case.

 Sugar can be reconfigured on the XO-1 to add the 802.11g ad-hoc icons,
 with consequent confusion for users.  Becomes a question for sugar-devel@

 Best is to use an access point.

  (Also, 13.1.0 AU  of XSCE RC1 0.4 on XO-1.5 Neighborhood via init 5
  appears to be same as using XO-1.5 (11.3.0) )

 Not understood, sorry.

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Re: [Sugar-devel] API-string freeze break request

[Samuel Greenfeld]

Personally I think the odds that someone would do a disassociation attack
to monitor or SSH into the laptops of Sugar-age students are low enough
that it isn't worth designing for.  I do not know of any consumer product
which currently tries to guard against being forced to search for another
network to use.

But it would be useful to have the ability to lock to a network (AP,
ad-hoc, or otherwise), and not resort to searching NetworkManager's
known/preferred list if communication is temporarily lost.

5 GHz ad-hoc is slightly tricky in that there are only a few channels
(36/40/44/48) one can manually select; the rest may only be selected via
automatic means.  According to Wikipedia[*] they seem to be reasonably well
accepted -- but in some countries they may only be used indoors (so no
under the tree).

[*] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels


On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 9:12 PM, James Cameron qu...@laptop.org wrote:

 G'day,

 I've reviewed the patches.

 I don't think this is worth breaking API and string freeze, as both
 are new features.

 I'd like to see them go through the new feature design process.

 In reviewing the patches, two more new features came to mind:

 - use higher bandwidth 5 GHz channels for ad-hoc, not only the
   channels 1, 6, and 11,

 - secured ad-hoc.

 With ad-hoc enabled a remote attacker need only transmit packets that
 prevent use of an access point, and the laptop will revert to
 unsecured ad-hoc, and begin to reveal useful data to an attacker.

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Re: [Sugar-devel] GSoC'14 Proposal: Turtle Art 3D

[Samuel Greenfeld]

To the best of my recollection, most if not all of the XO laptop series
does not have hardware 3D support for Linux.

The drivers simply were not made, partially because turning on the 3D
engine drains power faster.

You could try doing things through mesa's software OpenGL implementation,
although I don't recall how much of it is installed on XOs by default.



On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 9:31 PM, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote:

 Thanks Sam

 Its not a XO-4 or ARM issue, I get the same on XO-1.5.

 Tony


  I don't think xo4 has opengl. I tried to use a clutter based app and I got
 a crash :(

 Maybe there are some drivers, or otherwise you'll need to make 3d from the
 ground up.

 Have fun
 On Mar 22, 2014 9:10 PM, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote:

  Hi

 Does it run on XO4 hardware? I got

 [olpc@xo-92-f0-ca Documents]$ python ta3d.py
 freeglut (foo): OpenGL GLX extension not supported by display ':0.0'

 Tony


  Dear All,


 I have drafted my GSoC 2014 proposal for the project : Turtle Art 3D

 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Summer_of_Code/2014/AnubhavJ/Turtle_Art_3D

 There's also a prototype that I created implementing the basic functions
 of
 Turtle Art 3D:
 https://github.com/Anubhav-J/TA3D

 It would be great to hear some feedback and comments on the proposal as
 well as ideas on improving the prototype from the community.

 Cheers,
 Anubhav
 (martian_ on IRC)

 --

 *Anubhav Jaiswal*

 *B. Tech + MS by Research*

 *Lab for Spatial Informatics,*

 *Computer Science and Engineering,*



 *IIIT Hyderabad *





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Re: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: [b2g] Introducing B2G to x86

[Samuel Greenfeld]

Christian:

This is an email mailing list primarily made of volunteers.  To the best of
my knowledge no one involved with this email thread so far (including me)
is authorized to act on their own on behalf of Sugar Labs or OLPC.

Likewise, no individual you are speaking with likely can legally bind
either Sugar Labs or OLPC to an agreement.

If you wish to discussion trademarks or the rights to features, I recommend
contacting either of their legal counsels or registered agents directly.

I would further recommend that everyone hold off on saying anything else on
this email thread.  This is something for the lawyers to handle, and none
of us are legal counsel.




On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 4:30 AM, Christian Stroetmann 
stroetm...@ontolab.com wrote:

 Hello Paul


 You wrote:

 james wrote:
 On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 12:55:36AM +0100, Christian Stroetmann wrote:
   For sure, there is the One Tablet Per Child (OTPC) respectively
 One
   Pad Per Child (OPPC) project by my business division intellitablet
   since July 2012 (see [1]).
   You are contracted by OLPC? So, please could you take a look and
   tell me when the OLPC announced their tablet computer.
   
 No, I do not have access to those records.
   
 Relying only on public record, http://blog.laptop.org/ the
 multi-child
 XO Tablet manufactured by Vivitar and OLPC was announced as available
 for retail sale at Walmart.com on July 16 2013.  There was an
 announcement before that on January 9 2013 associated with CES.
   
 I don't see how this is relevant to sugar-devel@ mailing list.
   
   [1] intelliTablet Announcement One Tablet Per Child (OTPC) and One
   Pad Per Child (OPPC/OPsup2;C) #1
   www.ontomax.com/newsarchive/2012/july.htm#17.July.2012

 from the pictures at that link, it seems to be related to the XO-3,
 which, while under developmentd for a very long time, was never
 released, nor produced in more than prototype quantities.  and, it was a
 very different beast than the XO Tablet produced by vivitar.  (i
 know that james knows this -- i'm just clarifying for others.)

 paul


 =-
   paul fox, p...@laptop.org

  Thank you for your clarification.
 Indeed, the One Tablet Per Child project was started by intelliTablet,
 because the XO-3 never came to market.

 But form my point of view the chronology has some more facts to list:
 1. The OLPC developed the concept and a design study of the XO-2 in 2008.
 2. I showed a picture of the XO-1Beta of the year 2005 on one of my
 websites [1]. Because I thought the XO-1 is already a convertible laptop
 respectively tablet laptop (see also [2]) that features a touchscreen, due
 to the reason that I confused touch pad with touchscreen, I described the
 XO-1 as Tablet Computer Convertible One Laptop per Child (OLPC) XO-1
 (move the mouse on the image to see the description).
 3. The OLPC developed the concept and prototypes of the XO-3 and presented
 it on the CES in January 2012 for example.
 4. Because the OLPC presented the XO-2 and the XO-3, but no direct
 successor of the XO-1, my business division intelliTablet came back to my
 concept of the convertible tablet computer variant of the XO-1 (see again
 point 2.) and presented it on the 17th of July 2012 and 19th of July 2012
 ([3] and [4]). The device should be an integration of the XO-1 and the
 XO-3, or said in other words, an XO-1 with a (multi-)touchscreen.
 5. 8 days later the OLPC presented the XO-4 Touch in a press release.
 6. Wikipedia describes the XO-4 in the following way [5]: The XO 4 is a
 refresh of the XO 1 to 1.75 with a later ARM CPU and an optional touch
 screen.
 7. Due to these points, I claimed in my first e-mail to this thread that
 The One Tablet Per Child (OTPC) project is very well known by the OLPC
 headquarter as the XO-1 with touchscreen is.

 Maybe, some details are not correct.



 Have fun
 Christian Stroetmann

 [1] Original vs. Inspirationwww.ontomax.com/newsarchive/2010/january.htm#
 07.January.2010
 [2] Wikipedia Laptop, subsection Convertible laptop en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
 Convertible_laptop#Convertible_laptop
 [3] intelliTablet Announcement One Tablet Per Child (OTPC) and One Pad Per
 Child (OPPC/OPsup2;C) #1 www.ontomax.com/newsarchive/
 2012/july.htm#17.July.2012
 [4] intelliTablet Announcement One Tablet Per Child (OTPC) and One Pad Per
 Child (OPPC/OPsup2;C) #2 www.ontomax.com/newsarchive/
 2012/july.htm#19.July.2012
 [5] Wikipedia OLPC XO-1, XO 4 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XO_laptop

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Re: [Sugar-devel] seeking help to enable nepali keyboard input for XO-4

[Samuel Greenfeld]

If these are the SKU 311 units the Manufacturing Data on the wiki implies
they have membrane keyboards.

If so I don't see any reason using the keyboard manufacturing tags used for
previous Nepali manufacturing runs (or used testing out the settings in
/etc/sysconfig/keyboard manually) shouldn't work.  The %/X key will just
become the language key again.

But if no virtual keyboard exists for Nepali you will not have
touchscreen/virtual keyboard access to that language.



On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 11:41 AM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.comwrote:

 I believe Basanta said that they were the hard click keyboards

 On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Daniel Drake d...@laptop.org wrote:
  On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Basanta Shrestha
  basanta.shres...@olenepal.org wrote:
  But for XO-4 we will just be getting ones with English layout. I was
  wondering how we can enable nepali keyboard input on it.
 
  Are these keyboards hard/clicky/high-school style, or soft/membrane?
 
  Daniel
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Have we achieved consensus among activite Sugar developers?

[Samuel Greenfeld]

I think you realized but failed to emphasize an important point:

There is not a single community rallying around Sugar at this time.
Instead, I see at least two if not more.

Each has its own expectations and social norms, yet claims to speak for
(and sometimes control) the Sugar world as a whole.

If there were more people involved then having RHEL/CentOS/Fedora-style
development could work.  This would allow some parties to do commercial
support while others do rapid development.  But given the current
population size all I see this leading to is more fragmentation.


That being said:


   1. I definitely am in the put up or shut up crowd with the
   accusations.  Attempting to justify positions without evidence does not
   work very well.
2. Personally it feels to me like you are trying to engage the rest of
   the Sugar community as if it was another business.  I do not think that is
   the right approach, although I am not quite sure what would work.


(And as long as everyone else is mentioning their disclaimers, I also
should mention that I left OLPC last month.)



On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 5:42 PM, David Farning
dfarn...@activitycentral.comwrote:

 On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 4:59 PM, James Cameron qu...@laptop.org wrote:
  On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 10:28:35AM -0500, David Farning wrote:
  Have we achieved general consensus that the three phase approach I
  proposed earlier this week has the potential for establishing a
  mutually beneficial relationship while progressively rebuilding trust
  on both sides?
 
  I got lost in the discussion again; I couldn't see how your three
  phase approach answered Walter's question about your perception that
  Sugar Labs is not acting transparently.  ;-)

 The big idea is that open sources projects thrive when they create
 conditions and cultures where people with overlapping yet
 non-identical goals can come together collaborate around a common
 goal.

 Sugar Labs has found itself in a position where there is a high degree
 of conformity. This tends to create an echo chamber where similar
 opinions are respected and encouraged. That can be effective at
 building passion and energy, but it tends to crowd out dissenting
 opinions and marginalize the people who hold those opinions. These
 people can be the most productive members of the community in their
 particular areas of interest.

 The transparency challenge is that many potentially valuable members
 leave in frustration when their voices are not heard. Conversations
 escalate from civil to uncivil. This reduces the rate of development,
 quality of support, and potentially the future viability Sugar.

 Attempting to prove that via examples would create personal feuds
 which are unproductive at all levels. Instead, I would ask you to talk
 to people in the ecosystem, outside of the current core sugar
 developers, and gather feedback about what they think works and
 doesn't work.

 Instead, I would like the opportunity to prove the premise by showing
 the theory in action. My assumption is that if that we can work
 together on a series of tasks which require increasing amounts of
 acceptance for divergent opinions, we can identify and reduce the
 sources of the underlying tension.

 1. Phase one requires that we work together on a relatively straight
 forward project. HTML5+JS is the current focus of Sugar Labs. While it
 is not AC's primary focus, we consider it a key strategic project.

 2. Phase two will be a bit more complicated as we ask various
 developer to publicly agree on various core priorities for the next
 release. This related directly to manq's post about being focused on
 individual priorities. Without an understanding of everyone's
 priorities and the value they bring to the project, it can be easy to
 feel ignored, or even attacked, when one's own priorities are ignored.

 3. Phase three -- Dig into the balance between stable and leading
 edge. Historically, this has been a touchy subject because of the high
 degree of interest in innovation by key Sugar Labs members. However,
 large deployments consider stability and LTS very important.

 My assumption is that if Sugar Labs and Activity Central can set an
 example for working together, other marginalized parties with rejoin
 the project.

 David


  Regarding your need to rebuild trust on both sides; perhaps a
  quantitative approach; you could list the areas and extents in which
  Sugar Labs trusts Activity Central and Activity Central trusts Sugar
  Labs now.  e.g. feature discussion, design review, patch review, go
  no-go release decisions, support for released code.  Gain general
  agreement.  Then do a diff against past and future.  But this begins
  to sound like a developers' social contract, and not specific to
  Activity Central.
 
  My gut feel is that Sugar Labs treats all technical contributions
  fairly, regardless of funding source, and that promising funding gains
  no advantage except better phrasing of the responses; 'cause 

Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity Central's Sugar related priorities.

[Samuel Greenfeld]

Disclaimer: These are my personal views, and are not the official views of
OLPC.


   - It should be fine to discuss anything Sugar-related on the
   sugarlabs.org development lists.  Sugar Labs does not use any OLPC
   hosting services, and is an independent group as part of the Software
   Freedom Conservancy.

   - I cannot comment on future OLPC hardware plans.  If OLPC was to
   publicly announce their intent to go in a similar direction the
   laptop.org mailing lists might be appropriate; however otherwise they
   may not be.

   It sounds like you are discussing a software change for different
   hardware than anything OLPC related though.

   Other vendors besides OLPC have sold laptops with Sugar preinstalled on
   top of Fedora or Ubuntu in the past, so you are not breaking new ground.

   - Updating the Sugar release in Ubuntu sounds like something everyone
   could benefit from, not just Dextrose users.  Is there any reason not to
   base most of this work starting with upstream Sugar  existing Ubuntu
   packages?

   - In general one of my frustrations lately is that now that we no longer
   publicly review patches on this mailing list, everyone seems to be
   developing their own version of Sugar.

   While some of these changes may make it back upstream it would be nice
   to see EduJAM and OLPC-SF discussion about trying to limit this.

   I know Activity Central is trying to publicly state a bit what they're
   up to, and Walter does his weekly state of the union reports.  I also
   personally hear some private updates as well.  But the different working
   styles of the various groups is starting to confuse me as to which way
   Sugar is going as a whole.




On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 12:41 PM, David Farning dfarn...@activitycentral.com
 wrote:

 As a data point for other decision makers and a follow up to some of
 the recent threads on the future of Sugar, I would like to share
 Activity Central's Sugar priorities for the next six months.

 Activity Central supports the recent HTML5 + JS work that is going
 into sugar .100. It has the potential to take the OLPC vision to any
 device which runs a browser while simultaneously increasing the
 potential activity developer pool by several orders of magnitude. This
 is an excellent area for community lead research. Activity Central
 will be doing activity side work to test the viability of the
 framework for client deployments.

 As a more incremental approach, Activity Central will continue our
 deployment-centric work by porting Dextrose to Ubuntu. A concern among
 deployments is the future availability of hardware to support their
 current investment. Deployments are concerned that laptop support will
 stop before tablets are ready for use in the field. Because of the
 controversial nature of this work and the potential for disruption it
 may cause to the Association, we understand if some people would
 prefer to sit this out.

 Would either of these list be appropriate to continue these
 discussions about this downstream efforts to port sugar to Ubuntu for
 use on hardware not sold by the Association?

 Phase one has been a poof of concept as seen at
 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Ubuntu (ongoing)
 Phase two will be opening the project to the community.
 Phases three will be testing and piloting by deployments.

 --
 David Farning
 Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com
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Re: [Sugar-devel] adding a new CA root certificate

[Samuel Greenfeld]

Unlike Firefox (which has its own PKI and certificate authority support),
Webkit uses the system CA database.

You therefore should add the desired CA to the directory of system CA
certificates, the location of which varies a bit by distribution and
version.

With Fedora 19 (not yet used for a XO laptop release) the new Shared
Systems Certificates feature (
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SharedSystemCertificates) also comes
into play.



On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 1:22 PM, Jerry Vonau jvo...@shaw.ca wrote:

 Hi all:

 What steps must I take to install a new root CA certificate so Browse
 can use it? When I click on the hyperlink of the certificate it gets
 downloaded to the journal unlike firefox or older Browse where you are
 prompted.

 Thanks for any hints,

 Jerry

 PS, this is a resend of an email that was sent to sugar-devel 
 olpc-devel, this list doesn't like having 2 email addresses in the To
 line.

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Yet another project to port Sugar to Android ?

[Samuel Greenfeld]

Although I cannot comment officially, my understanding is that these really
are not that separate.

What you have at the moment are a few things called Sugar:

   - Sugar on Linux
   - Sugar on Android (sometimes including the Dreams UI for the XO
   Learning environment)
   - Sugar on HTML5 (an overlay that fits over both)

Historically Sugar on Android was considered equivalent to Sugar on
HTML5, with different groups preferring different terms.   This may still
be the case.

Sugar Labs as an organization probably should officially decide what should
be called part of Sugar, and what they do not wish to be included in its
definition.



On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 10:28 AM, lio...@olpc-france.org wrote:

 Hi all,

 ** **

 In a recent blog post on the OLPC association web site [1], I read that
 there is a new (at least for me) project to port Sugar to Android.

 Specifically, the post mentioned that the work is done by Morphoss [2], a
 New Zealand company and that it allow to use Sugar on the XO tablet.

 ** **

 I wonder if anyone on this list know this work and in which way it could
 be linked with the current work on HTML5 Sugar Framework?

 ** **

 Of course it’s clear for me that it’s better to work together on the same
 project instead of working on two different projects to do the same thing !
 

 ** **

 Tell me what you think.

 ** **

 Lionel.

 ** **

 [1] http://blog.laptop.org/2013/06/28/olpc-welcomes-new-members/ 

 [2] http://www.morphoss.com/ 

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Re: [Sugar-devel] IRC chanserv command

[Samuel Greenfeld]

The +n (no external messages from users not on the channel) is an anti-spam
measure and a default for all newly-created Freenode channels.

So you might not want to remove it, even if the IRC server will let you.

---
SJG


On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 6:26 AM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote:

 The channelname being sugar of course.


 On Sunday, 30 June 2013, Daniel Narvaez wrote:

 Hey,

 could someone with chanserv access give this command

 /msg chanserv set #channelname mlock -n

 Or well, give me access and I can do it.

 This is for github commits notification witout the bot joining every time.

 --
 Daniel Narvaez



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Re: [Sugar-devel] Google Summer of Code - Slots assigned

[Samuel Greenfeld]

If you want to do anything public discussing the Summer of Code proposals,
you need to be careful while doing so.

Google does not want students notified of acceptance or rejection until
they announce it for every student on Monday, 27 May.

The tracking system is setup so Sugar Labs can draft acceptance and
rejection notices within it for the students without making that
information public.

At this point (although unlikely) the number of slots still can change.


On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 2:45 AM, Sebastian Silva
sebast...@fuentelibre.orgwrote:

  Count me in!
 Does the student get to decide who will mentor them when there is more
 than one mentor offering?
 Regards,
 Sebastian

 El 08/05/13 01:35, Aneesh Dogra escribió:

 Hello list,

 We have been assigned 8 slots for Google summer of code. We have received
 about 37 applications. Out of these around 20 applications are weak and we
 don't really need to care about those. We have around 17 good enough
 applications and we need to cut down that to 8.

 I think the best thing would be to just discuss this over an IRC meeting.

 I don't really know how is one supposed to setup a meeting and how the
 timings are really decided. Maybe someone else can guide me on this?

 We can host a meeting, invite all the possible mentors maybe even some
 students to add something if you need to and then make our decisions. How
 about it?

 -Aneesh


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Re: [Sugar-devel] OLPC ext3 image for Qemu- Error 404

[Samuel Greenfeld]

OLPC has not provided qemu images for a while, so that wiki page is
outdated.

If you want a premade update-to-date Sugar virtual machine, you can go to
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Emulator_image_files and download one from
there.

Alternatively you can go to http://spins.fedoraproject.org/soas/ , download
the ISO image of a CD-ROM, and use the liveinst program in a Linux
Terminal to install the software to a virtual hard drive and make your own.


On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 5:16 AM, Kartik Kumar Perisetla 
kartik.p...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi,

 I am trying to setup the Sugar environment using qemu. I am trying to
 download the ext3 images from link*
 http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/xo-1/streams/joyride/*
 which is provided on http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Testing_ideas. But I can
 see that the link is no longer valid for downloading the ext3 images.

 It would be great if someone could provide the URL from where I can
 download ext3 OLPC images for qemu.

 Cheers!
 Kartik

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Is gabble not working correctly?

[Samuel Greenfeld]

Thanks for the report.

This has been confirmed and filed as http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/4369

I will get some debugging information on the ticket in a bit.


On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 11:48 AM, rihowa...@gmail.com rihowa...@gmail.comwrote:

 Jerry,

 I had been meaning to send an email regarding this and file a bug report.
 With 13.1.0 build 22, and possibly earlier builds, I cannot make a
 connection to an XS.
 (I use Anna's XS for testing). I see this with both an XO-1 and and an XO
 1.75 running 13.1.0

 If I have both XOs running 13.1.0 booted they connect directly to each
 other.
 Running olpc-netstatus indicates they are not connecting to the school
 server

 I can connect to the XS using 12.1.0 with both an XO-1 and an XO 1.75.

 rihowa...@gmail.com

 linux - the best things in life are free





 On Jan 7, 2013, at 5:12 PM, Jerry Vonau wrote:

  Hi All:
 
  I'm having some difficulties in having the XOs connect when booting. I
  can use the register with schoolserver method or populating
  collaboration server, which will cause the neighbourhood view to become
  populated until rebooted. Once rebooted the neighbourhood view doesn't
  become populated and the XO is running salut according to ps -A and
  netstat has no connection to the jabber server but salut is running. Can
  anybody else confirm this behaviour?
 
  Jerry
 
 
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [TRANSIENT] Peer XOs NOT shown in Neighborhood view when Power Management is enabled

[Samuel Greenfeld]

On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 10:21 AM, Paul Fox p...@laptop.org wrote:

 samuel wrote:
   On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 7:34 PM, Jerry Vonau jvo...@shaw.ca wrote:
  
On Wed, 2012-12-19 at 09:48 -0500, Martin Langhoff wrote:
 On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 5:14 AM, Jerry Vonau jvo...@shaw.ca
 wrote:
  Think I found the problem, in powerd we're setting WOL based on
 this
  string:
 
  if grep -qi : :14B2 /proc/net/tcp
 
  but that string is not present in /proc/net/tcp so WOL is not set
  according to ethtool, but that string can be found in
 /proc/net/tcp6
 
  avahi is bound to tcp6 when viewed with 'netstat -nat'
 
  This is reproducible in 12.1.0 and 13.1.0

 Arghhh. Ouch.

 Does it behave better with:

   if grep -qi : :14B2 /proc/net/tcp*
   
  
   This does not work because IPv6 addresses are longer (and therefore have
   more octets).
  
   The variant I came up with (if we want to support both v4 and v6
 listeners)
   is
  
   if grep -qiE : +:14B2 /proc/net/tcp?
  
   Simply removing the :  check on its own might be sufficient for our
   purposes but could falsely return true in a few cases.
  
   If IPv4 backward compatibility on the listener check is not a concern,
 then
   you should just match on the longer string of zeros:14B6 in
 /proc/net/tcp6
   and not check both files for speed.

 why would ipv4 backward compatibility not be a concern?


The ::0 (0.0.0.0 in IPv4 netstat speak) listener for telepathy-salut is
bound on the IPv6 socket, but still handles IPv4 requests.  So just
/proc/net/tcp6 can be looked at in 13.1.0/Fedora 18 as we ship it.

But if there is an option to tell telepathy-salut to bind to 0.0.0.0
instead of ::0 and force the listener to use IPv4 binding, then both
/proc/net/tcp and /proc/net/tcp6 have to be checked if we wanted to be
backward-compatible, or just paranoid in case something we don't know or
don't expect can tell telepathy-salut to do that.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [TRANSIENT] Peer XOs NOT shown in Neighborhood view when Power Management is enabled

[Samuel Greenfeld]

On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 7:34 PM, Jerry Vonau jvo...@shaw.ca wrote:

 On Wed, 2012-12-19 at 09:48 -0500, Martin Langhoff wrote:
  On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 5:14 AM, Jerry Vonau jvo...@shaw.ca wrote:
   Think I found the problem, in powerd we're setting WOL based on this
   string:
  
   if grep -qi : :14B2 /proc/net/tcp
  
   but that string is not present in /proc/net/tcp so WOL is not set
   according to ethtool, but that string can be found in /proc/net/tcp6
  
   avahi is bound to tcp6 when viewed with 'netstat -nat'
  
   This is reproducible in 12.1.0 and 13.1.0
 
  Arghhh. Ouch.
 
  Does it behave better with:
 
if grep -qi : :14B2 /proc/net/tcp*


This does not work because IPv6 addresses are longer (and therefore have
more octets).

The variant I came up with (if we want to support both v4 and v6 listeners)
is

if grep -qiE : +:14B2 /proc/net/tcp?

Simply removing the :  check on its own might be sufficient for our
purposes but could falsely return true in a few cases.

If IPv4 backward compatibility on the listener check is not a concern, then
you should just match on the longer string of zeros:14B6 in /proc/net/tcp6
and not check both files for speed.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [XO-1 FIRMWARE UPGRADE] Unable to find host error and 404 error

[Samuel Greenfeld]

As the instructions say, the string VERSION needs to be replaced with the
version of firmware you wish to download.

In any case if you are using a reasonably current OLPC release (12.1.0 or
13.1.0) you should not have to worry about manually upgrading the
firmware.  Most XO laptop images contain a copy of the firmware they were
designed to be used with, and can automatically upgrade to it given
external power and a reasonably charged battery.


On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 6:01 AM, Kartik Kumar Perisetla 
kartik.p...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi,

 I was trying to upgrade the XO-1's firmware by following the steps
 specified here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Upgrading_firmware. It was
 connected to power source during this process.

 As I executed this command : *wget
 http://dev.laptop.org/pub/firmware/VERSION/bootfw.zip*

 It gave me this error:
 *[root@xo-58-2f-ad boot]#* wget
 http://dev.laptop.org/pub/firmware/VERSION/bootfw.zip
 --1999-11-30 06:09:25--
 http://dev.laptop.org/pub/firmware/VERSION/bootfw.zip
 Resolving dev.laptop.org... failed: Temporary failure in name resolution.
 wget: unable to resolve host address “dev.laptop.org”

 and when I tried again I got :

 *[root@xo-58-2f-ad boot]#* wget
 http://dev.laptop.org/pub/firmware/VERSION/bootfw.zip
 --1999-11-30 06:05:01--
 http://dev.laptop.org/pub/firmware/VERSION/bootfw.zip
 Resolving dev.laptop.org... 18.85.2.147
 Connecting to dev.laptop.org|18.85.2.147|:80... connected.
 HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found
 1999-11-30 06:05:07 ERROR 404: Not Found.

 Can somebody please provide some pointers?

 Your help is highly appreciated!
 Kartik Perisetla

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Flashing Upstream Image allows to listen to boot-up sound ... but none other

[Samuel Greenfeld]

Is the CSN XO unlocked with a permanent developer key?  Which OS are you
testing?

Restarting to enable flash writing is a sign that the XO was secured, and
that the flash command would have to be run again after the restart to
allow a firmware update to proceed.

If you have a developer key for this XO and wish to unlock it permanently
you can use the disable-security OFW command.

I have access to a few CSN-serialed XO-1s (the lettered prefix noting where
it was made) but I have not noticed this behavior.  I would have to
downgrade them to E-series firmware to see if there was a problem there.
13.1.0 os19 contains Q2F13, but does not sign the binary to automatically
update secured XOs.  You should be ideally using Q2F13.

If you have no sound in Linux check the volume controls in Sugar's frame
and with alsamixer at the command line {if necessary}.  The audio mixer
state {including mute} is saved in Linux at shutdown, with only selected
items overridden by olpc-configure every boot.


On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 12:28 PM, nitika.mail nit...@activitycentral.comwrote:

 Yes it is!


 On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 10:57 PM, Gonzalo Odiard gonz...@laptop.orgwrote:

 Is your Xo connected to a charger when start?
 This is a condition to write the firmware.

 Gonzalo


 On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 2:20 PM, nitika.mail 
 nit...@activitycentral.comwrote:

 Hi All,

Pursuing this issue, I tried to downgrade the Firmware on the XO-1
 which did not play the sound (and which had the latest firmware). This was
 an attempt to verify whether downgrading the firmware would make the XO
 play activity sounds:

 Serial Number: CSN74802D48
 Firmware: Q2E46

 When I tried to flash Q2E45 from USB stick, I got a following message:

 Restarting to enable SPI FLASH writing. Try again after system restarts

 The system then automatically reboots and nothing happens! Going back to
 the OK prompt, the firmware is seen as it was.

 Repeating this process also bears the same result.

 Would really appreciate any feedback on this!

 Thanks and Regards,

 Nitika Mangal
 QA Manager
 Activity Central: http://activitycentral.com

 On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 5:41 PM, Gonzalo Odiard gonz...@laptop.orgwrote:

 James,
 Any change in firmware between Q2E45 and Q2E46 can be related?

 Gonzalo

 On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 9:09 AM, nitika.mail 
 nit...@activitycentral.com wrote:

 Hi Gonzalo,

 I have sound in one XO-1 and no sound in the other. The S/N and
 Firmware details have been mentioned in my earlier post.

 Repeating them again...

 Following are the details of the XO-1 which plays the sound:

 Serial Number: SHF725004AA
 Firmware: Q2E45

 Following are the details of the XO-1 which does not play any sound:

 Serial Number: CSN74802D48
 Firmware: Q2E46

 So far, I haven't received any updates if anyone else has this problem
 reproduced.

 Thanks and Regards,

 Nitika Mangal
 QA Manager
 Activity Central: http://activitycentral.com


 On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 5:33 PM, Gonzalo Odiard gonz...@laptop.orgwrote:

 You have no sound in both xo-1 or only in one of them?
 Anybody else can confirm this?

 Gonzalo


 On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 2:41 PM, nitika.mail 
 nit...@activitycentral.com wrote:

 Hi Gonzalo,

   I'm testing sound playing in activities like Pippy, TamTam series,
 Record etc.

 Basically none of the activities play any sound!

 Thanks and Regards,

 Nitika Mangal
 QA Manager
 Activity Central: http://activitycentral.com

 On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 10:14 PM, Gonzalo Odiard gonz...@laptop.org
  wrote:



 On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 8:23 AM, nitika.mail 
 nit...@activitycentral.com wrote:

 Hi Gonzalo,

Yes, I have tested volume up/down while booting, and that
 works fine!


 Great.


 Not sure why other sounds can't  be heard...


 Can you explain what other sounds are you testing?

 Gonzalo



 Thanks and Regards,

 Nitika Mangal
 QA Manager
 Activity Central: http://activitycentral.com



 On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 6:06 AM, Gonzalo Odiard 
 gonz...@laptop.org wrote:

 Startup sound volume is saved.
 Has you tested press a few times volume up key while booting?

 Gonzalo

 On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 11:28 AM, nitika.mail 
 nit...@activitycentral.com wrote:

 Hi All,

Flashing 31018o0 Image on XO-1 (Build: 13.1.0 for XO-1 (Build
 18))allows to listen to boot-up sound ... but none other.

 This happens on one XO, but does not show the same issue on
 another XO-1.

 Following are the details of the XO which does not play any
 sound:

 Serial Number: CSN74802D48
 Firmware: Q2E46

 Following are the details of the XO which plays the sound:

 Serial Number: SHF725004AA
 Firmware: Q2E45

 Has anyone faced a similar issue on XO-1? Is it possible that a
 higher Firmware version may be the cause ofsu no sound?

 Would appreciate clarity on this point!

 Thanks and Regards,
 Nitika Mangal
 QA Manager
 Activity Central: http://activitycentral.com

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Re: [Sugar-devel] [TRANSIENT] Peer XOs NOT shown in Neighborhood view when Power Management is enabled

[Samuel Greenfeld]

It sounds like you are having issues with multicast packet wakeups, which
have always been a bit of a sore spot.

I presume you are using ad-hoc networking, and have not left the XOs idling
to the point they shutdown their screen turns black and the wifi card is
turned off (~20 minutes?).  If this is with a schoolserver it still could
be a known issue but might be worth raising again.

Wake-on-LAN behavior with the 8686 wireless card is not as reliable at it
should be.  XOs need to wake up on multicast events to receive data
(multicast DNS) about the network neighborhood, but need to clearly hear
such announcements {i.e. no collisions with another data packet}, and
sometimes don't get them even if the XO is awake.  In crowded cities where
there are lots of access points and other computers nearby this becomes
more of a problem.

And since updates are only sent every few minutes, it could take quite a
while for everything to get synched up, with things lost along the way.

Schoolservers/Jabber servers use TCP connections, should be retrying at the
TCP level, and should not run into these issues unless a XO went fully into
suspend (black screen/etc.) with the wifi card off.  If a XO is connected
to a schoolserver/Jabber it will not show ad-hoc users even if they are on
the same network.

The ad-hoc networking model definitely could be improved but I do not know
if anyone has ever taken up that task.

There are several tickets on the subject; I do not recall filing any
against 13.1.0 yet though.


On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 12:40 PM, nitika.mail nit...@activitycentral.comwrote:

 Hi All,

Peer XOs are NOT shown in Neighborhood view  when Power Management is
 enabled.

 Tested on 31016o2 OLPC Image (Build 16) on two XO-1.75's... one Touch and
 the other Non-Touch. Following observations were made:

 1. Having connected both the XO's to a network, when neighborhood view was
 seen on both the XO's, only one XO displayed the other in its neighborhood
 view. The second XO was all alone in the neighborhood view.

 2. At some point, due to suspending an XO (or network re-connect), same
 thing can be observed on either of the XO's

 3. When Power management was disabled and system rebooted, this issue was
 not observed.

 4. This has yet been observed only on XO-1.75's.

 If anyone has observed this issue, please do advise.

 Also, does this call for raising a bug?

 Thanks and Regards,

 Nitika Mangal
 QA Manager
 Activity Central: http://activitycentral.com

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity Collaboration: Join Option on same XO

[Samuel Greenfeld]

At least historically, if you clicked the Join button and were already
joined to an activity (or sharing it) you would be switched back to viewing
the shared activity.

Potentially more of an issue is that if you resume a Journal entry for a
previously shared session, activities will attempt to resume sharing the
activity, which to the best of my knowledge doesn't always work (SL #525
and potentially some others; OLPC #4797 is related).


On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 6:39 AM, nitika.mail nit...@activitycentral.comwrote:

 Hello Everyone,

It is the first time that I'm e-mailing on the list... Please excuse
 any omissions :)

 While testing OLPC Images, I observed the following:

  1. Put an activity, say Maze/Chat in Neighborhood mode
 2. On the same XO, go to Neighborhood view
 3. The activity icon is seen in the view - hover the mouse over that icon
 4. Join option is seen on the Menu

 Question: What is the purpose of Join option on the same XO itself, which
 is sharing the activity? Viewing that option on neighboring XO's is
 understandable as they have the option of joining/sharing the activity.

 Would appreciate clarity on this point!

 Thanks and Regards,
 Nitika Mangal
 QA Manager
 Activity Central: http://activitycentral.com

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Query regarding Drag and Drop

[Samuel Greenfeld]

It's a bug:

http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/3999


On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 12:37 AM, Ajay Garg a...@activitycentral.com wrote:

 Hi all.

 I have been checking the drag-and-drop thing on the os* images; as of os9,
 I observe ::

 *  I start to drag a journal-entry to one of the mount-points.

 *  Before I can complete the process of dropping an entry into one
 of the mount-points (Documents/Mounted-Pen-Drives), a palette opens up, and
 the operation is aborted.
 The palette is the same that would have cropped up, had the entry
 been right-clicked.


 So,

 Is this a bug; or the drag-and-copy is NOT intended to work anyways, since
 we are moving to a touch-friendly version?


 Will be grateful for a reply :)





 Regards,

 Ajay Garg
 Dextrose Developer
 Activity Central: http://activitycentral.com

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Problem downloading a lease.sig file on an XO

[Samuel Greenfeld]

This might be a better question for the OLPC development lists.

On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 8:39 PM, Juan Cubillo jcubi...@fundacionqt.orgwrote:

 Hello,

 Our project would like to give kids the posibility of downloading a
 lease.sig file and unlock a friends or family XO without having to contact
 our tech support team. In order to do this, I setup a public dropbox link
 to a nightly generated lease.sig file that gives the XOs some extra
 activation time.
 Problem is that when an XO downloads the file, its name gets and extra
 .asc extension so it ends up as  lease.sig.asc.
 Since kids will be doing this, I wanted to give them only the basic steps
 to be able to re-activate laptops: 1-Download file. 2-place it on an empty
 usb memory. 3-Conect to xo and turn on.
 Re-naming the file would mean that they have to go to terminal, cd into
 the thumbdrive directory, change filename, etc... it's just way too much.

 So... couple questions:
 1. Is there a security problem/concern with having our project's lease.sig
 file publicly available? (we only generate activations for non-stolen XOs)


I will leave it this to deployment staff to answer authoritatively, but the
only practical attack I can think of is thieves will know where to find a
lease if a XO is not reported stolen, or before it is reported stolen.
They can then use this lease to use or sell the XO.

Theoretically it might be possible to reverse engineer your private lease
key given lots and lots of sample leases but I seriously doubt any real
thief can do that.  The mathematics skills required to do this are not
trivial.

2. Why is the XO adding this .asc extension or how can it be avoided?


Are you having the students download the lease in Browse from within
Sugar?  If so Sugar's journal internally uses mime types, not file
extensions, until a file is written to an external device or folder.  The
extension .asc is one possible choice for plain text.(*)   I was able to
reproduce this problem given this approach.

I agree that this is not the best behavior, especially if Browse can
potentially determine the original extension while downloading.

If your XO images have the GNOME desktop in them, using the web browser
included for GNOME (Firefox or Epiphany) to download the file to USB should
not alter the file name.  Just make sure the kids know how to eject the
USB stick when they are done.

(*) The .asc choice could be due to
http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/2267(also
http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/3226)


 Regards,

  - Juan Cubillo
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [sugar 0.98 patch] sl#3528: Keep the Sugar keyword untranslated

[Samuel Greenfeld]

This patch presumes that grammatical order is the same across all
translated languages.  The diff implies this might always have been the
case for the first sentence.

Unfortunately this is not necessarily true:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_order

Personally I think this could be better handled through a comment for
translators.


On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 2:05 AM, Kartik Perisetla kartik.p...@gmail.comwrote:


 Signed-off-by: Kartik Perisetla kartik.p...@gmail.com
 ---
  extensions/cpsection/aboutcomputer/view.py |2 +-
  1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-)

 diff --git a/extensions/cpsection/aboutcomputer/view.py
 b/extensions/cpsection/aboutcomputer/view.py
 index 34ada18..5e88729 100644
 --- a/extensions/cpsection/aboutcomputer/view.py
 +++ b/extensions/cpsection/aboutcomputer/view.py
 @@ -183,7 +183,7 @@ class AboutComputer(SectionView):
  vbox_copyright.pack_start(label_copyright, expand=False)

  info_text = 'Sugar'+_(' is the graphical user interface that you
 are'
 -  ' looking at. Sugar is free software, covered by
 the'
 +  ' looking at. ')+'Sugar'+_(' is free software,
 covered by the'
' GNU General Public License, and you are welcome
 to'
' change it and/or distribute copies of it under'
' certain conditions described therein.')
 --
 1.7.10.4

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Re: [Sugar-devel] [DESIGN] Proposal: Lease expiry information display in My Settings - About My Computer

[Samuel Greenfeld]

Personally I think this would be a reasonable feature.  But prior to this
discussion I have never heard of the word expiry before.

In US English the synonym expiration tends to be used much more often.  I
do not know what the preferred international form is.

---
SJG


On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 10:40 AM, Rafael Ortiz
raf...@activitycentral.comwrote:



 On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 1:07 PM, Anish Mangal 
 an...@activitycentral.comwrote:

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 Hi,

 I would like to propose a feature for discussion and inclusion in the
 0.98 cycle.

 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Lease_Information_Display

 This feature, which has been tested to work on 0.94 based dextrose-3
 builds, displays information relating to lease expiry in the about my
 computer section in the my settings menu.

 This feature is valuable for support staff in deployments which use
 OLPC's security system built on the XO laptops, and was specifically
 requested by the OLPC deployment in Paraguay.

 Please go through the feature page for a more in-depth explanation and
 a screenshot. Looking forward to discussion and answering queries.


 +1 to me, it's been used in dextrose w/o problems.



 Cheers,
 Anish
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
 Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
 Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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 =lBtG
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [DESIGN] Proposal: Multi-Selection and Batch Operations on Journal entries

[Samuel Greenfeld]

I see in the final screenshots that all of the selected items are
deselected.

Is this automatic, or does the user have to choose the deselect all
button to do this?

Personally I would prefer if the checkboxes remain selected in the source
view (if not an erase operation that removes the item).  That would allow
the user to do multiple actions (Copy then Erase for a Move), and confirm
after the operation that they selected the items they intended to select.

It seems from these screenshots like we are trying to indicate copying
progress by deselecting items as we copy them, and I do not know of another
OS that does that.


On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 6:57 AM, Anish Mangal an...@activitycentral.comwrote:

 Hi,

 I would like to propose the long-discussed-finally-implemented ;-)
 journal entry batch operation and multi selection feature for
 inclusion in sugar-0.98. All the necessary and relevant details should
 be present in the associated feature page:

 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Multi_selection_screenshots

 AFAIK, This feature was initially brought up in discussions in EDUJam
 in 2011 and an initial implementation was made by Martin Abente. The
 current implementation, done by Ajay, has been derived from that
 keeping the UI experience largely the same while significantly
 speeding up operations like select/deselect.

 Should you have any design related questions about this, feel free to
 reply to this thread.

 Cheers,
 Anish
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Re: [Sugar-devel] sugar-toolkit-gtk3's Sphinx documentation

[Samuel Greenfeld]

Sugarlabs already has a sphinx instance, although it is a bit out of date:
http://doc.sugarlabs.org/sphinx/

It also has a epydoc instance: http://doc.sugarlabs.org/epydocs/ (a.k.a
api.sugarlabs.org)

I previously kept a Doxygen parsing of the Sugar toolkit, largely because I
know how to make nice dependancy graphs with Doxygen.  This currently is
not hosted anywhere.

In general each documentation tool I have used has a slightly different
style for comments to state things like '@param input_item Describes this
input and @returns A XYZ object if successful; null on failure.  So you
should decide on the tool to use that can do everything you want before you
formally go annotating the code base.


On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 9:28 AM, Gary Martin garycmar...@googlemail.comwrote:

 Hi Manuel,

 On 5 Jul 2012, at 12:30, Manuel Kaufmann humi...@gmail.com wrote:

  Hello,
 
  I think it would be really great to have something similar to this:
 
  * http://mkaufmann.com.ar/~humitos/sugar-toolkit-gtk3/
 
  What do you think?

 Looks pretty :)

 My quick and dirty solution for browsable docs are to just hop into the
 terminal on an XO and type pydoc -p 8080 and then point Browse to
 localhost:8080. Now that we have moved to webkit I'm really tempted to wrap
 this up as a little webkit activity to get to the dev docs with no geeking
 around ;)

 And yes, making sure doc strings are useful and stay  date makes this much
 more useful!

 Regards,
 --Gary

 
  This is what I did to get that kind of documentation
 
  sudo yum install python-sphinx
 
  sphinx-apidoc --doc-author=Manuel Kaufmann --full
  --doc-version=0.96 --doc-release=0.96 --doc-project=Sugar Toolkit
  Gtk3  --output-dir=doc .
  cd doc
  make html
 
  I don't know if we have something like that, if yes, please let me
  know before start doing some work on this.
 
  Thanks, see you
 
  --
  Kaufmann Manuel
  Blog: http://humitos.wordpress.com/
  Porfolio: http://fotos.mkaufmann.com.ar/
  PyAr: http://www.python.com.ar/
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Re: [Sugar-devel] test automation

[Samuel Greenfeld]

There are a few unit and system tests scattered throughout the Sugar source
code tree.  I have some of them checked out at the office, but I do not
recall where they all are at home.


Personally I have been caught with a bit of a Catch-22:  I need to write
automation to save time doing manual tests, but I have so many manual tests
to run that I have not had much time to write automation.

I also have looked at Dogtail as well as a few other utilities, although I
did not get as far along as Daniel did.  When using the AT-SPI tree
browsers included with Dogtail and a few other programs, more often than
not I did not see anything.

It was unclear though if I was enabling AT-SPI correctly or if Dogtail was
falsely thinking that it was turned on properly.  This setting differs
between environments [1], and X has to be restarted to make it take effect.

I may have been hampered a bit by trying to find a toolkit with a graphical
browser (to find controls without inspecting source code) during the GTK2
to GTK3 transition.  Although AT-SPI is not GTK-specific, I still ran into
a lot of compilation/library mismatch issues.

There is a ticket open about getting AT-SPI working in Sugar, although we
may wish to still explore other automation methods. [2]

[1]
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-mozillateam-bugs/2012-January/127860.html
[2] http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/3221



On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 3:33 AM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hello,

 in the last few days I've been experimenting with dogtail

 https://fedorahosted.org/dogtail/

 So far I'm using it in the buildbot to run and stop all the installed
 activities.


 http://git.sugarlabs.org/sugar-build/sugar-build/blobs/master/tests/shell.py

 It's quite promising but apparently a bit buggy. Hopefully I can
 figure out how to make it reliable enough.

 On 1 July 2012 08:33, Sridhar Dhanapalan srid...@laptop.org.au wrote:
  I am keen to explore ways to improve the quality and delivery time of
  code. Is there any work being done to automate testing of code?
 
  We recently had some university students working with us to create an
  activity [1], and they were using the Robot Framework [2].
 
  Sridhar
 
 
  [1] https://dev.laptop.org.au/issues/634
  [2] https://code.google.com/p/robotframework/
 
 
  Sridhar Dhanapalan
  Engineering Manager
  One Laptop per Child Australia
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Re: [Sugar-devel] test automation

[Samuel Greenfeld]

On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 12:30 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 1 July 2012 14:31, Samuel Greenfeld greenf...@laptop.org wrote:
  It was unclear though if I was enabling AT-SPI correctly or if Dogtail
 was
  falsely thinking that it was turned on properly.  This setting differs
  between environments [1], and X has to be restarted to make it take
 effect.

 Things has changed quite a bit recently. It was pretty easy to get it
 to work on Fedora 17. Hopefully Ubuntu will package dogtail 0.8.0 at
 some point too.


 These days I think all you need is GTK_MODULES=gail:atk-bridge in the
 environement, both for dogtail and the applications. No X restarting.


I tried dogtail 0.7 (GTK2) and 0.8 (released last month with GTK3 support)
on Fedora 16.  I did not know you could force ATK to be enabled with an
environment variable though.  I will try that this week.

If getting AT-SPI support is that easy perhaps we should talk with the Orca
team about adopting their screen reader.


  I may have been hampered a bit by trying to find a toolkit with a
 graphical
  browser (to find controls without inspecting source code) during the
 GTK2 to
  GTK3 transition.  Although AT-SPI is not GTK-specific, I still ran into a
  lot of compilation/library mismatch issues.


sniff (part of dogtail) works from inside a sugar terminal, assuming
 GTK_MODULES=gail:atk-bridge.


I was trying to use sniff both in the Terminal activity inside of Sugar and
outside in GNOME.  But these tests were done without this environment
variable.  I also tried Accerciser ( https://live.gnome.org/Accerciser/ ).

Dogtail seems to be the test framework we're both looking at, possibly
because Redhat helps maintain it.  Other AT-SPI frameworks include LDTP (
http://ldtp.freedesktop.org/wiki ) and Mago ( http://mago.ubuntu.com/ ;
uses LDTP).

Graphical (non AT-SPI) test frameworks also exist.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [sugar 0.96, NM 0.9 PATCH] sl#3727: Return cached secrets, present in 'settings' themselves.

[Samuel Greenfeld]

I would pull back to the Enterprise scenario here and note there are APs
and smarter networks which will temporarily blacklist if not ban a client
device after repeated failed association attempts.

There also are networks (although somewhat rare) which change their
passwords daily to ensure that only customers of a restaurant or similar
establishment get wifi access.

Is there a method to put this on a counter so we attempt to reassociate
once with stored credentials and then prompt the user the second time?

How does GNOME handle this?


On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 11:06 AM, Ajay Garg a...@activitycentral.comwrote:

 Yep..
 Sorry Peter, Anish.

 So, as far as the current patch is concerned, this patch should be tested
 WITHOUT thinking about the WPA-Enterprise Networks scenario.



 That should bring us back on the track (for this particular patch) :P


 Regards,
 Ajay



 On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 8:31 PM, Anish Mangal 
 an...@activitycentral.comwrote:

 Not to take the discussion in a different direction, but IMO, would be
 great if Enterprise network support made it to upstream sugar. :-)

 On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 8:22 PM, Ajay Garg a...@activitycentral.com
 wrote:
  Peter,
 
  Is WPA-Enterprise Networks supported in Sugar 0.96, yet? (I don't think
 it
  is).
  As a result, the current patch has not been tested with WPA Enterprise
  Networks.
 
  There is a patch for WPA-Enterprise Networks (fully integrated in
 dextrose3)
  available at
  http://patchwork.sugarlabs.org/patch/1096/
 
  with specs at
 
 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/WPA-WPA2-Enterprise-Network-Connections
 
  Would upstream be interested :P :P (I would be more than willing to port
  it).
 
 
 
  Adding Anish in the loop.
 
 
  Regards,
  Ajay
 
 
 
 
  On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 8:07 PM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
  On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 12:00 PM, Ajay Garg a...@activitycentral.com
  wrote:
  
   NM may request the secrets in the following cases ::
  
   a)
   Wifi connection is lost.
  
   b)
   After being lost, the wifi connection is again within the range.
  
   c)
   When the credentials for the wifi network change.
  
  
   In every case, secrets were being requested via the popup dialog.
  
   However, case c) is rare (and when it does happens, usually the
   system-administrator, or the like,
   has the responsibility for issuing the changes publically).
  
   Thus, due to case c) (which is rare), cases a) and b) were suffering
   (these cases are generally
   very plausible cases in everyday life).
  
  
   So now, the intended solution is :::
  
  
   1.
   Always return the cached secrets (present in 'settings' themselves).
   This would make the irritating dialog-box go away, for cases a) and
 b).
  
  
   2.
   For case c), the user would ::
  
  (i)   Discard Network History.
  (ii)  Click on the wifi icon (in the neighborhood-view).
  (iii) Enter the new (publically broadcasted) credentials.
 
  This biggest time for C is when it's WPA-Enterprise and the enterprise
  user authenication has a lifetime on the password. Our corp wifi is AD
  authenticated and the password expires every 60 days.
 
  Peter
 
 



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Re: [Sugar-devel] [PATCH Sugar] Inhibit power suspend while playing text to speech - OLPC #11830

[Samuel Greenfeld]

Powerd (/usr/sbin/powerd) itself is not that hard to read; it is just a
shell script.

On XOs, powerd is willing to aggressively suspend the system (and enable
the DCON) if certain criteria are met which seem to indicate that the XO is
not in use.  These criteria include:

   - CPU usage below a set threshold
   - No recent keyboard/mouse usage
   - No network activity except for certain types (multicast and a few
   other things)
   - Camera usage above a set threshold
   - Nothing present which would inhibit suspend given the current ruleset
   (such as USB keyboards)

The audio system is not currently monitored to sense activity because
applications tend to open the audio device and leave it open, even if they
are not making any sound at the moment.

So if the CPU usage is low enough during text-to-speech playback and the
audio device is unmonitored, we may try to suspend in the middle of playing
audio.


On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 7:00 AM, Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.dewrote:

 Ok, so I am still not clear on the whys. Why does the machine suspend when
 there is audio being played back? That sounds wrong to me. It would be the
 same as suspending why I am moving the mouse. Can someone provide some
 background information on this?

 Regards,
   Simon




 On 05/17/2012 08:08 PM, Gonzalo Odiard wrote:

 On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 4:51 PM, Sascha 
 Silbesilbe@activitycentral.**comsi...@activitycentral.com
 wrote:

  Gonzalo Odiardgodi...@sugarlabs.org  writes:

  Using  powerd-inhibit-suspend directory is how ALL the activities are
 working today,


 Quantity isn't the same as quality. That everybody is doing it doesn't
 make it suddenly a good idea. Quite the contrary, as platform developers
 we have the responsibility to take the lead and show what _best_ (not
 common) practice is. Activity authors can then adopt it.


  But implementing such solution probably should be a feature and will
 not be
 accepted at this time.



  and how powerd is used.


 That's exactly what I don't like: it's specific to powerd. That's fine
 for downstreams to decide for themselves and use your patch (Dextrose
 may be interested in it, for example), but it's not a good direction for
 upstream to take.


  That is a complete nonsense to me. Probably Dextrose will accept it, and
 OLPC too.
 In what _real_ users you think when you work?
 Do you prefer have a bug who affect to 90% percent of our users without
 fix,
 because your imaginary users may be don't have powerd? And think one
 solution can be:

 *Brand-new D-Bus API*
 *  If we go this route, we should involve other desktop projects (Gnome,
   KDE, etc.) to agree on an API that all of us can use.*


 Wake up! This is not a university project. There are real users, and we
 should work for them.

 Gonzalo


  Sascha

 --
 http://sascha.silbe.org/
 http://www.infra-silbe.de/





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Re: [Sugar-devel] Unit testing an activity

[Samuel Greenfeld]

Logging isn't quite the question being asked.  This was discussed on IRC a
bit.

Taylor is potentially getting school credit for working on the video chat
activity this semester.  Part of Taylor's independent study agreement
requires him/her to write unit tests to verify the proper operation of the
code written.

There is no guarantee Taylor will be working on this project next semester;
someone else may be asked to take over.  And the idea is that the next
maintainer will be able to use the unit tests to-be-created to verify that
they did not break anything with an update.

While I know Sascha is working on some unit tests for the core Sugar
libraries, there is no unit test approach I know of that has been taken to
systematically verify activities.  So I asked Taylor to ask on this email
list in case someone has an idea how to do this, or knows of an activity
which already has unit tests.

---
SJG


On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Rafael Ortiz raf...@activitycentral.comwrote:



 On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 1:54 PM, Taylor Rose (RIT Student) tjr1...@rit.edu
  wrote:

 Does anyone have advice about how to run unit tests for an activity? I am
 working on a video conferencing activity called Open Video 
 Chathttps://github.com/FOSSRIT/Open-Video-chat.
 I'd like to be able to run some basic unit tests on the activity but I'm
 not sure how to instantiate an activity in a testing environment or if it's
 even possible. Can anyone offer advice or point me to an example? I'd like
 to be able to mock a connection and make sure the activity reacts properly,
 starting up gstreamer and such.

 Thanks,
 Taylor


 Hi Taylor

 Thanks for working on Open video chat,
 to debug your application you can use Python logging:

 http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Python_Standard_Logging_in_Sugar


 Your logs are going to be saved on .sugar/default/logs


 For examples on how to use it, you can look at other activities on
 http://git.sugarlabs.org

 hth.

 Thanks.

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Wanting to know a bit of (NetworkManager) workflow upon resume-from-suspend

[Samuel Greenfeld]

It's worth noting that half the battle can be won by overriding the
following XO-1 specific line in OLPC OS Builder's kspost.50.xo1-tweaks.inc:

gconftool-2 --direct --config-source
xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.defaults --type bool --set
/desktop/sugar/network/adhoc false

Setting this to true, or letting it default to such will show the Ad-hoc
networks by default on XO-1.  It also will cause XO-1's to default to
Ad-hoc if no preferred network is found.

The mesh networks will still be there for manual use; but right now they
seem semi-broken anyway on 12.1.0 as we attempt to connect to Mesh Network
0 and don't set a channel on the Interface.


On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 10:29 AM, Martin Langhoff
martin.langh...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Ajay Garg ajaygargn...@gmail.com wrote:
  Good News.
 
  I managed to get this working (albeit via changes in sugar).
 
  The details are at ::
 
 http://git.sugarlabs.org/dextrose/mainline/commit/4ac1a5300f4c43608b0f009a23d966d404a15632

 The patch seems fairly wrong to me. You are hiding the mesh icons in
 sugar, but the mesh is active. Packet forwarding is still happening.

 One of the top reasons we stopped using mesh is because it saturates
 the RF spectrum, which is a bad thing to do when you have many users
 in a small space (ie: in a school).

 You had the mesh disable trick working on F11, and (I assume) happy
 users of that feature. With this, the feature is broken, but you're
 making the UI look right...

 cheers,



 m
 --
  martin.langh...@gmail.com
  mar...@laptop.org -- Software Architect - OLPC
  - ask interesting questions
  - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
  - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity Packaging Wish List

[Samuel Greenfeld]

We should do a bit of merging - I created
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_sugar_activity_list since the
Fedora 13 column made me think the list was unmaintained.  (Misspellings
in that list are from actual package descriptions - I did not correct most
of them.)

Keeping the version numbers in the Wiki though is a bit deceptive unless we
can verify that packagers update the Wiki every time they update bodhi.

There also a list at
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2012-03-22_Sugar_Desktop which is
based on my list while following a priority ranking a few developers came
up with for OLPC work.  But this one does not need to be updated as it is
for an event in one point in time.


On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 8:51 AM, Kalpa Welivitigoda callka...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hi,

 I updated the Fedora Sugar Activities page [1] so that the users can
 add their favourite/useful activities to be packaged. This will help
 the packagers so that they don't have to pick activities randomly to
 package. If you as a packager is working on a packaging a activity in
 the wish list please state that in the assigned to column to avoid any
 confusion.

 I hope this initiative will result for the betterment of both sugar and
 fedora.

 Comments are highly welcome.

 [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Sugar_Activities

 --
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[Sugar-devel] Sugar Fedora Test Day - 2012-03-22

[Samuel Greenfeld]

On Thursday March 22 there will be a Fedora test day for Sugar [*].

Sugar is an educational graphical user environment designed for use by
children.  It is used by several educational groups, including the One
Laptop per Child project as part of their Fedora remix, as well as the
Sugar-on-a-Stick Fedora Spin.

While we are still working on getting everything online, we plan to have a
variety of test cases and exploratory tasks for everyone to work on.

Representatives from the project will be available from 08:00 to 20:00
GMT.

[*] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2012-03-22_Sugar_Desktop
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Testing] Fedora Sugar Test Day - Test case content, location

[Samuel Greenfeld]

On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 7:14 AM, Sridhar Dhanapalan
srid...@laptop.org.auwrote:

 On 18 February 2012 21:04, Tabitha Roder tabi...@tabitha.net.nz wrote:
  On the topic of tracking testing, we have looked at a number of options
 here
  in NZ and I think Australia also looked at a number of options.

 We've recently hired a software test engineer and are developing a
 workflow for testing. We're also receiving advice from experienced
 enterprise testers (who are sympathetic to open source).


Perhaps we should schedule a meeting/introductions to coordinate?


 The main piece of advice I'm getting is that we need a good test case
 management system that allows for linking with defects. The links need
 to be able to be tracked, searched and sorted. This lets us quickly
 understand the relationships between the tests and defects, and also
 identify which defects are more disruptive.


In general the OLPC situation is a lot like the Fedora situation.  The
dedicated, often full-time testers may prefer full-featured test case
management systems, while the rest of the community tends to not see why
one is required.

In my case I've been told to use a spreadsheet.

Even at the Wiki level test cases are often seen as excess.  It supposedly
was proposed to Fedora's steering committee (FESCo) that all packages
should be submitted by packagers with information that could be used to
build test cases.  But this became only optional.  Similarly, there is a
proven tester status in Fedora for testers who read and agreed to basic
guidelines.  But that status was recently stripped of any meaning because
too few testers in general were testing packages, and requiring proven
tester feedback for critical-path updates was leading to significant delays.


In regards to Nitrate, there is a bit of history within Red Hat which
explains why Fedora is considering that route [1].  Red Hat used to use
Testopia, but when Fedora legal looked at it they did not like the
licensing of one of its Javascript libraries.  This led to a new TCMS
called Nitrate being written which could use the Testopia database schema.

It's worth noting they thought of us when developing the system [2].

Ideally Fedora and OLPC-A/-F/-AU should settle on sharing or using similar
enough infrastructure that we avoid significant duplication of work.  At
least within the various OLPC groups we all are more or less testing the
same thing.


[1] http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2011-January/096502.html;
the thread itself starts at
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2011-January/096441.html
[2]
https://fedorahosted.org/nitrate/browser/design/wireframes/add_case_new_page1.jpg;
a few other pictures



 Sridhar
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Testing] Fedora Sugar Test Day - Test case content, location

[Samuel Greenfeld]

There are a few things I think need to be clarified:

   1. What are we looking as a community to get out of this Fedora Test Day
   event?
   2. What is the purpose of a test case and/or test plan?  How
   detailed should they be?  Presuming we want them, how should they be stored
   in general, and for this particular scenario?


For #1, I disagree that having users start out for this occasion by
learning how to use Sugar on their own is appropriate for a few reasons:

   - The amount of time that any given tester will be available to help us
   out likely is limited.   Time spent doing discovery will not be spent on
   other tasks.
   - Not everyone will start at the same time.  Perhaps calling this a
   Test Day is a misnomer because there is no guarantee that testers will be
   in the time zone or country.
   - Sugar is a relatively stable platform with a few known recurring UI
   disputes.  It is not Nell, the Helicopter experiment, or another one where
   the user interface could potentially require major changes.

With this test day, my personal view is that we need to get feedback
verifying basic Sugar and activity functionality in Fedora.  When Peter
Robinson, Kalpa Welivitigoda, or someone else updates a Sugar software
package in Fedora, these packages often go through the verification process
without a single person commenting on if the proposed update worked or not.

Mind you, usage feedback is appreciated; but is more of a secondary concern
to me.  Fedora had Fit and Finish test days during Fedora 12 cycle where
they asked for general usage feedback; perhaps we can propose that they do
another round of those aimed at the various desktop environments with
Fedora 18.



For #2, I have used similar test templates to the the New Zealand's to
verify activities in the past, and was thinking of making one available in
this case.   Translating one into a Wiki template would make it
straightforward to clarify which activities support sharing, webcam usage,
etc.

The reason I am interested in maintaining test cases with a system to keep
a historical log of who did what when is because I want to be able to
parallelize tasks.  Although I recognize I could be more efficient, there
simply is too much material in Sugar and the XO platform for one person to
focus on.  And yet I get regularly asked do you remember bug #123 or
when was the last time someone looked at Q?

I am not looking for detailed test cases to the point of listing which
buttons to click when; but rather simple ones like Does it install? and
Can it open a saved document?.

Fedora takes a curious approach to this in that they write a series of test
cases which could be parallelized, but then offer to have everyone run the
same set of test cases.  And usually, pretty much everyone runs most of the
available items.

For comparison, look at the last GNOME 3 test day (
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-04-21_GNOME3_Final) versus the
last Sugar one (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2010-08-19_Sugar).

I'm open to taking suggestions back to the Fedora Testing mailing list if
someone has an idea on how we could do things better, but I'm trying to
avoid cross-posting too much.   We could also inquire on the Fedora QA
mailing list as to who might participate and what their skill levels are so
we can better tune our approach.



On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 5:04 AM, Tabitha Roder tabi...@tabitha.net.nzwrote:

 On 17 February 2012 08:36, Samuel Greenfeld greenf...@laptop.org wrote:

 On March 22 there will be a Sugar test day for Fedora 17.  This means
 that the Fedora community in general will be gathering to look at Sugar and
 see what issues we have close to the end of the Sugar 0.96 cycle.


 While test cases can be useful, I always try to start with some discovery
 time as this is when you can get some feedback on design and intuitive
 behaviour (though this is impacted by use of other systems with many
 users).  Something like:
 Find a friend. Work together to discover how to open the laptop if you
 have an XO, or start Sugar. Together try clicking on things and see if you
 can learn how to play any games or complete any activities. Can you find
 ways to take photos, write stories, make music.
 After that, get their feedback on how that went before giving them a test
 case. First time users of Sugar can also give you feedback on their
 experience of first use of an activity while following testing
 instructions. There have been a number of occasions when I have said oh,
 you have to click on that first and then click on that other thing and
 they have said why is it designed like that? which really makes us
 rethink about the design of activities.
 Our basic activity testing template (written a long time ago) is here -
 http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_testing_template#The_NZ_activity_test

 On the topic of tracking testing, we have looked at a number of options
 here in NZ and I think Australia also looked at a number of options

Re: [Sugar-devel] [Testing] Fedora Sugar Test Day - Test case content, location

[Samuel Greenfeld]

Fedora test days historically have been Thursdays to help make it a regular
event that's easy to schedule around:

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Fedora_17_test_days

If there is significant interest for another day of the week, we can
consider asking for it.


On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 11:41 AM, rihowa...@gmail.com
rihowa...@gmail.comwrote:



 On Feb 16, 2012, at 11:36 AM, Samuel Greenfeld wrote:

  On March 22 there will be a Sugar test day for Fedora 17.  This means
 that the Fedora community in general will be gathering to look at Sugar and
 see what issues we have close to the end of the Sugar 0.96 cycle.
 

 March 22nd is a Thursday.  Is the March 22nd date for Sugar Test Day set
 in stone?  Picking a Thursday is a bit unfortunate because a lot of
 volunteers with experience of Sugar will either be at their jobs or school.
  Now if it was on a weekend

 Robert H.

  To help keep track of what was found and tell people where to look, we
 ideally should have test cases for the volunteers willing to help us that
 day that may be unfamiliar with Sugar.  But the first question I have is
 where these test cases should be hosted.
 
  Historically OLPC has tried to use their wiki with some semantic markup
 to store test cases  results for both the XO and Sugar.  But this setup is
 not easily searched, is prone to caching old information unless the Wiki
 pages are purged, and can get confusing if you have to support later test
 plans and/or updated test case versions.
 
  Fedora also stores test cases in their Wiki, and links them to packages
 in Bodhi to help in verification.  They take a simpler approach to their
 Wiki design than what OLPC uses.   Fedora supposedly was to move to a test
 case management system called Nitrate to match Red Hat, but to date this
 has not happened.
 
  A year or so ago I had a wild idea to create a system where test cases
 and results could be exchanged so Ubuntu users could see how a program
 worked in Fedora, what upstream saw, etc.  But this has yet to materialize
 beyond a few sketches.
 
  So we need to come up with a location  design that has a set of test
 cases  results that everyone (including Ubuntu, etc.) can consider
 authoritative  up-to-date for testing Sugar, and ideally support test
 cases for XO hardware, the school server, etc. as well.
 
  ---
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[Sugar-devel] Fedora Sugar Test Day - Test case content, location

[Samuel Greenfeld]

On March 22 there will be a Sugar test day for Fedora 17.  This means that
the Fedora community in general will be gathering to look at Sugar and see
what issues we have close to the end of the Sugar 0.96 cycle.

To help keep track of what was found and tell people where to look, we
ideally should have test cases for the volunteers willing to help us that
day that may be unfamiliar with Sugar.  But the first question I have is
where these test cases should be hosted.

Historically OLPC has tried to use their wiki with some semantic markup to
store test cases  results for both the XO and Sugar.  But this setup is
not easily searched, is prone to caching old information unless the Wiki
pages are purged, and can get confusing if you have to support later test
plans and/or updated test case versions.

Fedora also stores test cases in their Wiki, and links them to packages in
Bodhi to help in verification.  They take a simpler approach to their Wiki
design than what OLPC uses.   Fedora supposedly was to move to a test case
management system called Nitrate to match Red Hat, but to date this has not
happened.

A year or so ago I had a wild idea to create a system where test cases and
results could be exchanged so Ubuntu users could see how a program worked
in Fedora, what upstream saw, etc.  But this has yet to materialize beyond
a few sketches.

So we need to come up with a location  design that has a set of test cases
 results that everyone (including Ubuntu, etc.) can consider authoritative
 up-to-date for testing Sugar, and ideally support test cases for XO
hardware, the school server, etc. as well.

---
SJG
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Testing] Fedora Sugar Test Day - Test case content, location

[Samuel Greenfeld]

The issue of using a dedicated software product to track test cases 
results has come up from time to time.

The situation as I understand it is that OLPC in general prefers to use the
resources of other {often upstream} partners whenever possible.  It is felt
by some people that we would spend more time maintaining our own system in
this case than we would save by having it.

So I am waiting for Fedora to implement Nitrate  hopefully support us as a
product-of-sorts, presuming that does eventually happen.  I'm also
half-waiting to see what they come up with for automated testing so that
Sugar UI work goes a similar route, even though implementing something now
could potentially save me hours of testing time.

There also is a desire with both OLPC and Fedora to support anonymous users
with their testing systems, and not all test case management software out
there supports that.


On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 2:52 PM, Kurt H Maier karmaf...@gmail.com wrote:

 Would it be appropriate to investigate something like FitNesse[1] or
 testmaster[2] for Sugar and/or OLPC?  Software like this might be
 overkill, but on the other hand, it would be nice to have a single
 point to collect testing standards  results, and be able to store
 testing history in a queryable format.   Testmaster in particular is
 pretty easy to use and doesn't require much in the way of hosting;
 it's just CGI.



 [1] http://fitnesse.org/FitNesse.UserGuide.OneMinuteDescription
 [2] http://testmaster.sourceforge.net/

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Re: [Sugar-devel] [DESIGN] Browse PDF handling

[Samuel Greenfeld]

Something to watch out for is that many websites already like to open a
separate tab or window for PDF documents, sometimes via Javascript and
sometimes by setting the target frame/window.

Sometimes these sites directly link the PDF file; other times they attempt
to include it inline.

If we intend to support tabbed browsing, these behaviors could result in an
unused tab being opened besides the one showing the document.
On Feb 2, 2012 7:00 AM, Manuel Quiñones ma...@laptop.org wrote:

 I'm proposing, for the new and fresh Browse wearing WebKit, the
 following behaviour when clicking on a link to a PDF:

 - the PDF is shown in a new tab, next to the current
 - basic document navigation is provided to the user
 - as well, a button to save to Journal is provided

 Using the save to Journal button, the kid can now read the PDF
 starting the full-featured Read activity.

 This behaviour is similar to what Safari does, and I think it fits
 Sugar user interface better than other approaches we where thinking
 before, like start Read directly, which provokes an interruptive
 activity switch.  Also this way, an entry in the Journal is made only
 if the user ask for it, and allows a quick read of the PDF then you
 can decide on storing.

 If we go for this, some design decisions should be taken:

 - How can we provide basic PDF navigation?
  1. Overload Browse buttons? This are: View zoom-in, zoom-out, Edit
 copy, paste, Go back page, go forward page buttons.
  2. Add a special toolbar for PDF, add Save to Journal option in that
 toolbar

 - Where to append Save to Journal button?
  1. In the activity toolbar, like other activities have.  This
 matches well basic navigation 1 above.
  2. In a special toolbar.  This matches basic navigation 2 above.

 For 1, I fear that may confuse users and may complicate code.  For 2,
 we can take Safari as reference.  It adds an overlay horizontally
 centered near the bottom of the screen [1].  We can do this with the
 new widget GtkOverlay [2].

 Am I overlooking something?  Comments?

 Credits go to Simon for the investigation :-)

 [1] http://dev.laptop.org/~erikos/designs/safari_inline.png
 [2] http://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/3.3/GtkOverlay.html
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [PATCH 2/2 sugar] Create new owner keys as RSA keys instead of DSA

[Samuel Greenfeld]

My last two jobs significantly involved encryption, but I am not that good
of an amateur cryptographer.

Has anyone in the security field (such as Ivan Krstić) reviewed this
proposal?  Are there any potential performance impacts by switching key
types for slower systems such as the XO-1?

We may also want to support handling an ECDSA SSH key if we see one,
although generating one may not always be possible (some distributions
remove this algorithm due to patent concerns).

---
SJG


On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 7:35 AM, Sascha Silbe si...@activitycentral.comwrote:

 Sugar currently uses the owner key as an opaque string, not as an actual
 key.
 This means the key type does not yet matter, we can just as easily use an
 RSA
 key. The most important reason to prefer DSA over RSA, the RSA patent, has
 expired in 2000 [1]. While DSA is considered secure when used correctly, it
 relies on certain properties (e.g. a cryptographically secure PRNG [1])
 that
 have not always been met in practice [3], with secret key exposure as a
 result [4]. RSA is less problematic in this regard.

 RSA keys are also more readily usable with other tools (e.g. monkeysphere
 only
 supports RSA keys [5]), enabling Sugar to use a single key to identify the
 user for other protocols and purposes than just Collaboration. Examples
 that
 come to mind instantly are web browsing (think a.sl.o) and email (OpenPGP).

 [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSA
 [2] http://rdist.root.org/2010/11/19/dsa-requirements-for-random-k-value/
 [3] http://www.debian.org/security/2008/dsa-1571
 [4]
 http://rdist.root.org/2009/05/17/the-debian-pgp-disaster-that-almost-was/
 [5] http://web.monkeysphere.info/news/release-0.24-1/

 Signed-off-by: Sascha Silbe si...@activitycentral.com
 ---
  src/jarabe/intro/window.py |2 +-
  1 files changed, 1 insertions(+), 1 deletions(-)

 diff --git a/src/jarabe/intro/window.py b/src/jarabe/intro/window.py
 index f7937b1..6cf1481 100644
 --- a/src/jarabe/intro/window.py
 +++ b/src/jarabe/intro/window.py
 @@ -47,7 +47,7 @@ def create_profile(name, color=None):
 import commands
 keypath = os.path.join(env.get_profile_path(), 'owner.key')
 if not os.path.isfile(keypath):
 -cmd = ssh-keygen -q -t dsa -f %s -C '' -N '' % keypath
 +cmd = ssh-keygen -q -t rsa -f %s -C '' -N '' % keypath
 (s, o) = commands.getstatusoutput(cmd)
 if s != 0:
 logging.error('Could not generate key pair: %d %s', s, o)
 --
 1.7.7.1

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Re: [Sugar-devel] [ASLO] Release Google Earth-1

[Samuel Greenfeld]

There is some debate to that on various mailing lists.

Some of the support libraries used are known to be be LGPL or GPL based,
but in the case of one GPL program (gpsbabel) is known to be isolated as a
seperate executable.  Other items like Qt potentially could have be
licensed via alternative means.

The EULA at http://www.google.com/earth/download/ge/agree.html forbids
redistribution, so the entire package might not be GPL'd.

Someone would have to contact Google to figure out what's going on.


On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 10:15 AM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 1:54 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 6:20 AM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  Are we really allowed to use the name google earth?
 
  Good question. Not sure. We should probably choose a Sugar-ized verb
  name anyway.
 
  And looking at the ASLO page it states that its GPLv2. I very much
  doubt that to be the case!

 I am pretty sure it is GPL. The map data is not, but the software is.

 -walter

 
  Peter
 



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[Sugar-devel] [DESIGN] Stop start-up icon pulsing when an activity fails to start

[Samuel Greenfeld]

I would like to propose that we stop pulsing the animated icons (in the main
screen area as well as the upper toolbar frame) when an activity fails to
start, and Sugar already knows to display a message stating this happened.

When this happens the animated icons should either be switched to the
highest transparency/alpha state to indicate failure, or be made
non-transparent.

Otherwise, if a user is not actively watching the launcher screen, or the
activity started but Sugar failed to detect it, the pulsing icons will
continue to pulse using CPU cycles in the background until a users spots the
issue and presses the Stop button found on the failed launch screen.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Moving to GTK3 and GObject Introspection

[Samuel Greenfeld]

The change I would like to see in the API (if we do not have it already) is
to ensure that we have full ATK accessibility support for all Sugar
controls.  Not only would this allow screen readers, etc. to parse Sugar
applications and the main window system, but it would make automated testing
of Sugar easier as well.

I've been told in the past that automating Sugar was not possible apart from
a point  click approach because hippocanvas and similar did not expose any
accessibility information.  Since this may require developers to setup
additional information inside of activities (alternate names/descriptions,
focus tab order, etc.) it is better to get this in as early as possible so
activities do not have to be retrofitted to support ATK after the fact.


On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 12:13 PM, Daniel Drake d...@laptop.org wrote:

 On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Gonzalo Odiard gonz...@laptop.org wrote:
  I have started a API Wishlist page to application developers.
 
  http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/GTK3/APIWishList
 
  We can start to collect best practices, and try to avoid a little the
 code
  duplication
  there are today in the activities.

 I have no objections to API improvements and changes, but would like
 to reiterate my view: The importance here should still be placed on
 the technology shift, rather than on the opportunity to produce a
 perfect API (which we could spend all eternity designing and
 discussing).

 I really like the ideas you have put on that page, I just want to try
 and steer us clear of using this opportunity to hold up the migration
 and design a perfect and sparkly-clean API (which would take a long
 and possibly unbounded time).

 Thanks!
 Daniel
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [PATCH Browse 0/2] Add support for Export as PDF

[Samuel Greenfeld]

On a slightly different note: what mechanism will be provided in Sugar
to set the page size, if there is none already?What is going to be
the default page size (A4, Letter, etc.)?

And what printing margins are going to be used as the default, and
presumed to be supported by all printers?  When should an activity be
allowed to deviate from this?   Font embedding with PDFs also can be
another legal can of worms.

While PDFs could be resized and/or rotated by the print activity to
fit the available printable paper area, this tends to lead to a bit of
stretching in one axis or compressing another.  Unfortunately when a
PDF is generated, it is presumed that at least general information
about the eventual target output device(s) is known.

Care must also be taken not to have print settings unnecessarily
affect the view of a document on a computer screen/monitor.  At least
one commercial product out there was infamous for supposedly doing
this.



On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 5:29 AM, Sascha Silbe
sascha-ml-reply-to-201...@silbe.org wrote:
 Excerpts from Christoph Derndorfer's message of Sat Jun 04 22:20:08 +0200 
 2011:

 (1) Are you suggesting that rather than being able to print directly from an
 activity users will have to export whatever they want to print to PDF, then
 launch a separate activity or go into the Journal to start the appropriate
 function and then print from there? If so this frankly speaking sounds like
 a lot of overhead to me.

 Yes, that's the plan so far. We can reconsider the UI later if someone
 presents a reasonable use case where the overhead really matters. There
 are lots of different ways to reduce the overhead (without abandoning
 the general approach) and which one is best depends on the details.


 (2) Assuming my assumption above is correct: Doesn't that mean that the
 text, image, whatever artifact a user wants to print will be stored twice in
 the Journal, once as the original (modifiable) object and once as the static
 PDF?

 Yes, that is correct and fully intentional. You can continue editing the
 original instance, but the PDF will retain an exact copy of the
 print-out.


 (3) You say that this approach relieves activity authors from the need to
 provide print support in their activity, yet it seems to me that they will
 be required to add an export to PDF for printing purposes feature, right?

 Yes, they need to add support for exporting PDFs. However they don't
 need to implement all the other functionality that's required for
 printing like preview, selecting pages, arranging pages (booklet mode),
 zooming, etc. etc.. Take a look at the Adobe Acrobat Reader print
 functionality to get a glimpse on the complexity of the problem.

 While we could add this functionality to sugar-toolkit, activities would
 either need to adjust their UI as the print functionality evolves or it
 would be bolted on rather than integrated. The standard solution for
 this on non-Sugar systems is to use pop-ups, but besides the usual
 issues with modality their screen space is limited so much that a
 preview dialog wouldn't be very useful on XOs (let alone PDAs like the
 Olidata JumPC being rolled out in Uruguay).

 Making this an activity solves the UI issues and also allows it to be
 developed independently from the platform (in itself a very good reason
 to go that route).

 Sascha

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Lego WeDo with Scratch

[Samuel Greenfeld]

With the planned 11.2.0 release, the WeDo plugin should come included 
enabled by default.  Current 11.2.0 development builds include it.

I tested it a bit with a two-sensor+motor WeDo kit, although for some reason
I could only get it to control two devices at a time (passing a sensor
through the motor's connector didn't seem to work).


On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 5:54 PM, Claudia Urrea clau...@laptop.org wrote:

 Sameer, you will have to install the plugin. I would have expected that
 this was already included in the latest version.

 Open terminal and run

 cd /home/olpc/Activities/Scratch.activities
 sudo ./installWeDoRules.sh
 mv WeDoPlugin-disabled WeDoPlugin

 Let me know if this works!

 Claudia

 On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 3:56 PM, Sameer Verma sve...@sfsu.edu wrote:

 Wondering if anyone has had success with running Lego WeDo sensors
 with Scratch on a XO 1.5

 Once plugged, I see that the XO recognizes it, but I am unable to get
 Scratch to show any input from  the sensors.

 cheers,
 Sameer
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 Director of Learning
 OLPCA

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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] XO power management hindering collaboration

[Samuel Greenfeld]

In what build(s) is this occurring?  And are you using a schoolserver or
not?

OLPC release 10.1.3 fixed some issues with XO 1.5's waking up in response to
multicast traffic on the network.  This is necessary for Salut/under the
tree usage to work with power management.  XO-1's with 10.1.3 are
configured by default to always stay on, as they (to the best of my
understanding) historically have had an occasional issue where the network
card might not reappear after suspending.

In 11.2.0 both XO-1's and 1.5's currently are allowed to suspend, although I
do not know if that will be the final setting.


On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 12:40 PM, moku...@earthtreasury.org wrote:

 On Sat, May 14, 2011 10:04 am, Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote:
  It's looking to us that the aggressive power management enabled on the
  XO can sometimes create confusion when children are collaborating on
  activities.
 
  Take for example a turn-based game like Memorise. If a child is
  waiting for their turn, they might leave the XO untouched. In that
  time, power management can kick in, and the XO stops communicating
  over the wireless network. Waking up the XO (e.g. by touching the pad)
  doesn't always rejoin the XO to the game properly. The whole game is
  stalled because the turn cannot be completed.

 Is this in the bug tracking system? If not, please file a bug report. (We
 can help.) If it is, please add your experience to the existing bug
 report.

  Are there any ways we can manage this in our deployments? Perhaps some
  guidelines to give to teachers so that they have a reasonable
  expectation?

 An obvious workaround is to keep touching the XO so that it does not go to
 sleep.

 The more clumsy process is for the active player to exit and save, then
 open the saved Journal entry and share again.

  Thanks,
  Sridhar
 
 
 
  Sridhar Dhanapalan
  Technical Manager
  One Laptop per Child Australia
  M: +61 425 239 701
  E: srid...@laptop.org.au
  A: G.P.O. Box 731
   Sydney, NSW 2001
  W: www.laptop.org.au
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  i...@lists.sugarlabs.org
  http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
 


 --
 Edward Mokurai

 (#40664;#38647;/#2343;#2352;#2381;#2350;#2350;#2375;#2328;#2358;#2348;#2381;#2342;#2327;#2352;#2381;#2332;/#1583;#1726;#1585;#1605;#1605;#1740;#1711;#1726;#1588;#1576;#1583;#1711;#1585;
 #1580;) Cherlin
 Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation.
 The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar in Fedora 14

[Samuel Greenfeld]

That's because sugar-presence-service-0.90.2-1.fc14 {which fixes this} needs
to be approved to move from testing to stable.  If you install it from
updates-testing it should work correctly without the file.

In general there are a few things one needs to do to get Sugar working
beyond single-user-mode or with Jabber in Fedora.  If you are using Salut,
you will have to make sure that avahi-daemon is enabled with mDNS allowed
through Fedora's default firewall (along with possibly some other ports;
this is currently being debated in Redhat BZ #699432).

There are also a number of collaboration bugs from Sugar 0.90 which Sugar
0.92 is only starting to fix.


On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 5:36 PM, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.dewrote:


 On 14.05.2011, at 23:06, Peter Robinson wrote:

  On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 9:19 PM, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de
 wrote:
  Running as a session it does not ask for a keyring password. Good. But
 there are no peers in the neighborhood view either. There are no network
 logfiles created in .sugar/default/logs, though according to ps, telepathy
 is running. Presence-service fails with the same error.
 
  Network logs are in the main shell.log last time I looked.

 There is nothing network-related in shell.log.

  presence-service is obsolete, but etoys still uses it and nothing
  else. No idea why it no longer runs.

 Because PS does not find the buddy icon file. If I do

touch ~/.sugar/default/buddy-icon.jpg

 then Etoys starts fine.

 - Bert -


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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] EduJAM day 2 Tour of Uruguay

[Samuel Greenfeld]

I would not personally know the history, but tap-to-click is intentionally
disabled for the Synaptics touchpad in newer (10.1.x?) OLPC software builds
for XOs.  You should be able to edit /etc/modprobe.d/olpc-psmouse.conf to
re-enable it:

http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/10119

However, be aware that there is another brand of touchpad (indistinguishable
from the outside of an XO except in software) which may be present on some
XO-1.5s, and we currently do not disable tap-to-click on these:

http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/10528

I would not know how often this other brand has been used, or if anyone has
them in XOs out in the field.



On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Daniel Castelo
dcast...@plan.ceibal.edu.uywrote:



 On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 12:24 PM, nanon...@mediagala.com wrote:

  *
 James Cameron wrote:
 XO-1 touchpad behaviour was changed.
 *



 On the Xo 1.0 of Plan ceibal, With the new versions of Sugar 
 (0.88)http://200.40.200.100/Portal.Base/Web/VerContenido.aspx?GUID=39ff79c8-1368-4c2e-8e70-167b3373b933ID=203132they
  disabled the tap-to-click on the touchpad.

 The Tap-to click worked ok with previous image. (uy802c)


 Maybe we disabled it unintentionally. However, I flashed a machine with
 uy802c and tap-to-click doesn't work. Maybe depend on the version of the XO
 hardware. Are you sure that was on the 802c image?
 Thanks.
 Daniel

 ---

 On the XO 1.5 is different because they came from factory without the
 tap-to-click , so there's no complain about that, it never existed. (I think
 that there are some drivers problems)

 But on the XO 1.0 the feature of tap-to-click was working ok, and now it
 is disabled (with the new image Dextrose, 
 os1bdxuy.imghttp://200.40.200.100/Portal.Base/Web/VerContenido.aspx?GUID=39ff79c8-1368-4c2e-8e70-167b3373b933ID=203132,
 ), I don't Know Why.


 Paolo Benini
 RAP-CEIBAL
 Montevideo

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 Avda. Italia 6201
 Montevideo - Uruguay.
 Tel.: 2 601 57 73 Interno 2228
 E-mail : dcast...@plan.ceibal.edu.uy

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Re: [Sugar-devel] [PATCH sugar] Anly approve and not handle channels in the shell, part of OLPC #10738

[Samuel Greenfeld]

Sorry about that; yes it was tested.

Tested-by: Samuel Greenfeld greenf...@laptop.org


On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.dewrote:

 On 04/15/2011 06:47 PM, Sascha Silbe wrote:

 Excerpts from Simon Schampijer's message of Thu Apr 14 19:42:05 +0200
 2011:

 We only approve channels in the shell and do not claim to handle them
 anymore. The handling is now done by the activity (toolkit patch).
 More info about approving and handling of channels can be found at [1].


  This patch does as well only handle sugar activity invitations,
 invitations
 from non-sugar clients will be handled in a separate patch.


 s/as well // ?


 Yes.


  [src/jarabe/model/telepathyclient.py]

 @@ -60,8 +62,17 @@ class TelepathyClient(dbus.service.Object,
 DBusProperties):

  def __get_filters_cb(self):
  logging.debug('__get_filters_cb')
 -filter_dict = dbus.Dictionary({}, signature='sv')
 -return dbus.Array([filter_dict], signature='a{sv}')
 +
 +filt = {
 +CHANNEL + '.ChannelType': CHANNEL_TYPE_TEXT,
 +CHANNEL + '.TargetHandleType': CONNECTION_HANDLE_TYPE_ROOM,
 +}
 +filter_dict = dbus.Dictionary(filt, signature='sv')
 +filters = dbus.Array([filter_dict], signature='a{sv}')
 +
 +logging.debug('__get_filters_cb %r', filters)
 +
 +return filters


 Given that filt is non-empty, do we really need the explicit
 conversions? I.e. would the following work?

 def __get_filters_cb(self):
 logging.debug('__get_filters_cb')
 return [{
 CHANNEL + '.ChannelType': CHANNEL_TYPE_TEXT,
 CHANNEL + '.TargetHandleType': CONNECTION_HANDLE_TYPE_ROOM,
 }]

 (The content seems to be static, so it wouldn't make sense to log it.)


 Ok, the logging can go away.


  The general approach looks fine. With or without the above changes, but
 after you got Samuels Tested-By:


 Sam, did you test this already?

 Regards,
   Simon

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Re: [Sugar-devel] AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'startswith'

[Samuel Greenfeld]

I already helped him with this.

The issue was the ~/.i18n file missing due to olpc-utils not being in the
build, and Sugar/various applications' inability to compensate (
http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/10682 - although some progress has been made on
this).  Chris compensated for this by adding an English /home/olpc/.i18n
file as a temporary fix to the build.

We probably should eventually support ~/.dmrc files as well (
http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/2603).


On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 11:10 PM, Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.dewrote:

 On 04/26/2011 06:38 PM, Chris Ball wrote:

 Hi,

 I'm seeing an odd bug running Fedora 13 Sugar on ARM.  When I launch any
 Sugar activity:

 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File /usr/bin/sugar-activity, line 21, inmodule
 main.main()
   File /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/sugar/activity/main.py, line
 101, in main
 locale_path = i18n.get_locale_path(bundle.get_bundle_id())
   File /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/sugar/activity/i18n.py, line
 131, in get_locale_path
 bundle_id + '.mo')
   File /usr/lib/python2.6/posixpath.py, line 65, in join
 if b.startswith('/'):
 AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'startswith'

 Anyone happen to have dealt with this one, before I go hunting further?


 If I remember correctly Sam has seen it and it was a matter of choosing the
 right set of activities.

 Regards,
   Simon

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[Sugar-devel] Minimal set of firewall ports for Salut/Gabble to work

[Samuel Greenfeld]

I have a small farm of virtual machines at home that I have been using to
check out Fedora updates.  Recently I was asked to look at some Sugar
packages, so I tried to look at those using Salut for communication, only to
be blocked by Fedora's default firewall.

I looked at a Sugar on a Stick installation of Fedora 14, and the only port
opened in its incoming firewall configuration seems to be UDP port 5353 to a
multicast network for Avahi/mDNS.   This allows all the Sugar systems to see
each other; but does not seem to allow them to see publicly shared
activities(*).  In order for private invitations to work, TCP port 5298
(telepathy-salut) seems to also need to be open.  But then the hosts want to
talk over multicast to UDP port 31842 and it's not clear to me if that's
guaranteed to be consistent.

Does anyone know the minimal set of ports and methods Sugar  Telepathy need
to communicate, and if so should we be adding them to the Sugar Spin's
firewall for Fedora 15?

---
SJG

(*)This also may or may not be a bug in the current builds; I'm using the
latest Sugar items in the updates-testing repository.
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[Sugar-devel] TamTam Usage Patterns

[Samuel Greenfeld]

I am in the process of trying to test the various TamTam activities (TamTam
Mini, TamTam Edit, etc.) for the upcoming OLPC 11.2.0 OS release.

Does anyone have any field experience with how popular and/or widely used
the various TamTam activities are that can pass that information along so I
know what to focus on?  Pointers to resources on how to use the various
programs also would be welcome.

While some of them are relatively straightforward like TamTam Mini, others
such as TamTam Edit leave me wondering how to use it properly (and I've used
music notation editors like Rosegarden).

---
SJG
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Interesting USB-pluggable robots, controller boards, and sensors

[Samuel Greenfeld]

It sounds like what is desired is an update of a 10+ year-old thing I 
helped design called MIPPET -- Module for Input/Output Programming 
Projects Enhancing Teaching [1].


The interface we used was the parallel port, which made things easy at 
the time since USB 1.0 was in its infancy.  There was talk even then 
though of possibly doing a USB update, and we had a USB 1.0 development 
kit I played with a bit.


This was never mass sold to my knowledge, but I could try and research 
if any progress has been made on the USB update.  If not I could attempt 
it or nudge other people to try and do so, although if this turns into 
someone's college project I would not expect to see a result until the 
fall semester.



(Extra credit goes to anyone who can figure out what MIPPET actually 
stands for and not the backronym the professor came up with.  It's not 
too hard to find, so I'm not certain what it will get you.)


[1] Described a bit in the document at 
http://www.rowan.edu/mars/compsci/CS1labs/Mippet.ppt with pictures.   
Example coursework which probably could be ported to Python/Turtleart 
(or more likely Etoys with its collision detection) at 
http://www.rowan.edu/mars/compsci/cs1labs/SIGCSE03.htm .



On 3/17/2011 2:56 AM, Kevin Mark wrote:

On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 11:45:15AM +1100, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote:

Hi
An exciting new robotics idea from Guzman Trinidad.

Turtle Art is programmed to produce two different frequencies. The headphone 
output of the XO is connected to a pair of LM567 integrated circuit tone 
decoders, each of which lights a LED when its input signal frequency is 
present. With this principle we could control any device.

  *http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVzVlAZsz1w*

To be widely adopted, robotics kits need to be low cost and be low entry high 
ceiling. Guzman's idea has the potential to lower the cost.

My estimates:

Lego NXT $500
Lego Wedo $170
Scratch sensor board $45
Arduino $40
PICAXE $15 (http://littlebirdelectronics.com/products/picaxe14m-starter-pack)
LM567 decoder board $?

I am unaware if anybody has looked at the PICAXE and the XO, could be worth 
looking at.

I am assuming that the cost of many of these kits is too high for the markets 
into which the XO is shipping.

Tony

I have a Ti Launchpad (a $4.30 USD + shipping?) micro-controller board that
uses the msp430 line. I was able to compile msp430-gcc on the xo-1.5 and use it
with mspdebug to upload firmware to it. I would assume someone with more
knowledge than me could add a few more bits or a simple circut and add some
software to turtle art to make it do something like the picaxe. The launchpad
has 2 simple switches, 2 LEDS and an internal temp sensor (on 1 of the 2
included chips) and it includes a usb cable.



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Re: [Sugar-devel] [PATCH sugar] Language: restore undo functionality in control panel section #10754

[Samuel Greenfeld]

Tested-by: Samuel Greenfeld greenf...@laptop.org


On 03/16/11 11:03, Simon Schampijer wrote:
 The control panel has a builtin undo functionality that does
 call the set_* method of the model. As we have different formats of
 setting a language we need to compensate for that.
 ---
  extensions/cpsection/language/model.py |4 
  1 files changed, 4 insertions(+), 0 deletions(-)
 
 diff --git a/extensions/cpsection/language/model.py 
 b/extensions/cpsection/language/model.py
 index 240e562..17de6bb 100644
 --- a/extensions/cpsection/language/model.py
 +++ b/extensions/cpsection/language/model.py
 @@ -134,6 +134,10 @@ def set_languages(languages):
  languages :
  
  
 +if isinstance(languages, list):
 +set_languages_list(languages)
 +return
 +
  if languages.endswith('utf8'):
  set_languages_list([languages])
  return 1

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[Sugar-devel] [DESIGN] Frame activation while Sugar control panels are open

[Samuel Greenfeld]

While I had the Frame control panel open in Sugar (in 0.92/11.2.0), I found
myself trying to touch various corners and sides of the screen to see how
various settings would behave.   {In reality this is not possible; a restart
is needed for some reason to change the frame activation settings.}

Instead I discovered that in general, one cannot touch the corners or sides
of the screen to activate the Frame while a Control Panel is open.  However,
one can use the Frame key to activate the frame with a Control Panel in use.

Are we supposed to be able to activate the frame in Sugar while in the
control panel, or not?  Or is this split behavior by design?

---
SJG
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [DESIGN] Global create-new/modify icon

[Samuel Greenfeld]

I've noticed that many programs tend to show an icon of the document
type as a button or menu hint used to create a new document, often with
a small star overlaid near a corner (usually top right) of the icon to
indicate the new functionality.


On 03/10/11 12:16, Simon Schampijer wrote:
 Hi,
 
 one of the major functionality in activities is creating and/or
 modifying, for example creating a new game in Memorize a new abacus in
 the Abacus activity and so on.
 
 I am wondering what would be a good icon to use for that. I have seen
 the use of a scissor (like editing an activity), or the gear like we use
 in 'view source'.
 
 Any other ideas? And then it would be great if we could set on one and
 be consistent in activities and use the same icon in all of them.
 
 Regards,
Simon
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [DESIGN] Reflect internet connectivity in the 'Network' frame icon

[Samuel Greenfeld]

There also is the possibility of a false positive if we check too
little.   Some networks might like to act like everything is available
when that is not the case.

Captive portals such as those seemingly found at pretty much every
university and hotel I've gone to lately come to mind, and these may
vary in their approaches.


On 02/16/11 04:53, Sascha Silbe wrote:
 Excerpts from Martin Langhoff's message of Tue Feb 15 14:57:01 +0100 2011:
 
 Going back to your original post to note something important: these
 statuses aren't important _just_ to show in the UI. This should be a
 system status property that can be queried by activities and by
 cronjobs / cli utils.
 
 Please be very careful with this. If your sensor incorrectly detects
 that no internet connection is available, everything that relies on it
 will break. Even just checking the NetworkManager status without a way
 for the user to override it is a bad idea since NetworkManager might not
 have a complete idea of what's going on [1,2].
 
 When trying to check availability of the internet, you are bound to
 get false positives. The server(s) you ping in your sensor might be
 down even though the server you are going to connect is still be 
 reachable. The IPv4 default route might be down, but there might still
 be a way to reach the target (IPv6, proxy, ...).
 
 Unless there's a large application-level cost associated to it, it
 might be a better idea to just try establishing the connection. A
 SYN packet is as cheap as an ICMP echo request and you'll know for
 sure whether the exact server you're trying to reach is available or
 not.
 
 The internet sensor might be useful to monitor changes and trigger
 connection attempts, though. If you use exponential back-off, you could
 reset the retry timer whenever the sensor switches from offline to
 online.
 
 Sascha
 
 [1] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=511439#35
 [2] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=418745
 
 
 
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [DESIGN] Reflect internet connectivity in the 'Network' frame icon

[Samuel Greenfeld]

For the schoolserver (and other jabber-based environments), wouldn't the 
best check be to see if there is a working gabble connection and that we 
are not on salut?


It seems like a lot of people are trying to guess how deployments like 
to configure their networks (DNS, ICMP ping support to gateway and/or 
Internet, HTTP, etc.).  As at least a few deployments have shown us 
(hidden SSIDs, HTTP Proxies, cellular modem routing requests, MAC-based 
network restrictions limited to XOs, etc.), our initial guesses are 
often wrong.


Personally, I think we might want to separate this out into a basic icon 
sort of check in the frame, and a more advanced control panel for 
adults/teachers which can do tests and explain things in more detail.



On 2/13/2011 7:41 PM, Martin Langhoff wrote:

On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 6:38 PM, Michael Stonemich...@laptop.org  wrote:

  The Sugar UI should make network health discoverable.

Good point in general. To what is trying to get solved, I'd word it as
Sugar UI should make network _affordances_ discoverable.

We can get a rough initial version with a ping to 'schoolserver', and
a ping to a configurable internet host.



m


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Re: [Sugar-devel] determine origin of file selected from an object chooser?

[Samuel Greenfeld]

As far as I know there really is no need; when your activity saves state
(when exiting, etc.), it should save the copied file as part of the
activity's journal entry.

At least this is how it has always worked with Jukebox  Read.

(As a side note, the Journal description for a copied item often states
the path where it came from, but I would not rely on this to tell you
that it came from an external source.  The description or this feature
could change at any time.)

---
SJG


On 02/10/11 12:57, Erik Blankinship wrote:
 
 
 On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 11:30 AM, Erik Blankinship er...@mediamods.com
 mailto:er...@mediamods.com wrote:
 
 
  How can I determine if a file loaded with a sugar object
 chooser was
  selected from the datastore or from an external storage device?
 
 On Sugar 0.84+, there is no difference. Objects on external
 storage get
 copied to the data store first.
 
 
 But the objects don't get copied to the Journal (or at least I don't
 see them there).  
 
 Maybe I should rephrase my question: how can I know if the selected
 object was loaded from the Journal?
 
 What I am trying to do:
 If an object is loaded from an external device, I want to add a copy
 of that object to the user's journal.
 
 
 
 How does this idea look to the community?  Seems hackish to me, but
 might work?
 
 errything = datastore.find( {} )[0]
 
 ...
 
 dsobject = chooser.get_selected_object( )
 
 from_journal = False
 for errything_ds in errything:
  if errything_ds.object_id == dsobject.object_id:
   from_journal = True
   break
 
 
 
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Dextrose] [DESIGN] Reflect internet connectivity in the 'Network' frame icon

[Samuel Greenfeld]

I'm pretty certain that the latest versions of Windows attempt to do
determine if they have Internet or just local access, contacting a
Microsoft server to see if they can reach it.

However I would not recommend doing this unless you have the resources
of Microsoft, or the permission to use the resources of someone who
does.  Netgear made the mistake of hardcoding the University of
Wisconsin's NTP server in a bunch of their earlier products.  Combined
with a bug this caused the university to get 150 Mb/sec (250,000
packets/second) of NTP queries coming at them.


This icon may also not be desirable on low-bandwidth connections, as
even pings from 20-30 laptops could become measurable amounts of billed
data.  Some school servers may also run offline proxies which can
request pages to be fetched from a remote online system later, and who
knows what our icon should show in that case.



On 02/10/11 15:20, Bernie Innocenti wrote:
 On Thu, 2011-02-10 at 12:46 -0300, Anish Mangal wrote: 
 Hi,

 Currently, the 'network' icon on the frame tells us whether we're
 connected to a network or not. Would it make sense for it to test for
 internet connectivity and maybe reflect that by displaying a small
 globe overlaid on the 'Network' icon?
 
 Nice, but how do we determine if we have internet connectivity, by
 pinging a host such as activities.sugarlabs.org every now and then?
 
 If it's sufficiently low-bandwidth, then I'd be in favor. Since no other
 OS currently does something similar, there's a high chance that this
 idea was already tried and found to be unfeasible.
 

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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Dextrose] [DESIGN] Reflect internet connectivity in the 'Network' frame icon

[Samuel Greenfeld]

I believe (but am not 100% certain) that I read somewhere that the 
Microsoft approach uses HTTP.  This likely is because if you are using 
an HTTP proxy, you may not have external DNS resolution or pinging ability.


As far routers go, I don't know how many of them try to be smart and 
indicate full internet connectivity, while others may just acknowledge 
they have an active working DHCP lease or PPPoE connection.  Most 
routers still try to use NTP to set their own clocks from the Internet 
so they could use that too, but hopefully they are a lot saner about 
using NTP than they used to be.


What I'd like to avoid with this feature is falsely claiming Sugar is 
offline, and having some activity (Get Books, etc.), refuse to function 
because it thinks (incorrectly) it cannot do anything.  We can warn if 
we want, but we don't want to be persistent about warning if a 
deployment is screwy to the point users ignore Sugar messages entirely.



On 02/10/11 18:50, Peter Robinson wrote:

On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 8:20 PM, Bernie Innocentiber...@codewiz.org  wrote:

On Thu, 2011-02-10 at 12:46 -0300, Anish Mangal wrote:

Hi,

Currently, the 'network' icon on the frame tells us whether we're
connected to a network or not. Would it make sense for it to test for
internet connectivity and maybe reflect that by displaying a small
globe overlaid on the 'Network' icon?

Nice, but how do we determine if we have internet connectivity, by
pinging a host such as activities.sugarlabs.org every now and then?

A DNS lookup of some centralised host would likely be enough. Some
networks don't allow ping so its likely that won't be a good check.
Name lookup is a fairly reasonable indication that you have some form
of network connectivity.

Peter
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Dextrose] [PATCH sugar-toolkit] Insert activity root path in front of the reset of sys.path

[Samuel Greenfeld]

Not that would cause much of a slowdown, or that this would handle the 
(hopefully unlikely) case where Python gains modules named identically 
to Activity ones, but:


What are we trying to solve here?  Are activities bundling third-party 
Python libraries which have to be preferred in most cases over 
system-provided ones (if present)?


Wouldn't it be better to ensure Activity developers make proper use of 
namespaces when developing them instead?



On 2/6/2011 5:58 PM, Bernie Innocenti wrote:

On Sun, 2011-02-06 at 00:50 +, Aleksey Lim wrote:

Otherwise it is possible to include, eg, system modules before local ones.

Seems like a good idea.

Reviewed-by: Bernie Innocentiber...@codewiz.org



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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Dextrose] [PATCH sugar 2/2] Send XO serial numbers with anonymous reports

[Samuel Greenfeld]

It's worth noting that a processor serial number (along with any other
persistent identifier) falls under personal information and requires
anyone using this code that is either based in the United States or
working with children in the United States to obey the Children's Online
Privacy Protection Act (COPPA).  Other states/countries may have similar
laws, as well as more general privacy laws which cover adults as well.


While there are some exclusions for non-profits, there are some groups
(such as the US Government) who do require those working for them to
follow COPPA's rules regardless of the exclusion.

I would not recommend putting something like this in any release without
checking with legal counsel first (even for a single customer),
especially since I am not a lawyer.   This may even need several lawyers
involved for multiple parties (Sugarlabs, Activity Central, etc.) since
their incorporation status/location and places of work/deployments differ.


On 02/04/11 09:05, Aleksey Lim wrote:
 On Fri, Feb 04, 2011 at 08:35:03AM -0500, Walter Bender wrote:
 It is not clear from this patch if there is a way for a deployment (or
 individual) to disable this feature. It is unprecedented that we have
 this level of auto-association between user and some arbitrary
 authority -- there should be an opt-in policy at the deployment level
 and an opt-out policy at the individual level IMHO.
 
 Actually we don't have implicit separtion between upstrem and downstream
 gconf configs, except having upstream and downstreamstream git repos.
 This feature was implemented entirely only within dextrose (thus mostly
 for deployment needs). It needs to be wteaked to make it vlaid for
 upstream, ie, broad usage.
 
 In case of sendind s/n w/ anonymous submits, it is request from the
 dextrose deployment (local policy permit such things and it might be
 useful for deployment).
 

 -walter

 On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Aleksey Lim alsr...@member.fsf.org wrote:
 ---
  data/sugar.schemas.in  |   11 +++
  src/jarabe/model/feedback_collector.py |   10 --
  2 files changed, 19 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)

 diff --git a/data/sugar.schemas.in b/data/sugar.schemas.in
 index 7e4a923..c3606f2 100644
 --- a/data/sugar.schemas.in
 +++ b/data/sugar.schemas.in
 @@ -24,6 +24,17 @@
   /locale
 /schema
 schema
 +  key/schemas/desktop/sugar/feedback/anonymous_with_sn/key
 +  applyto/desktop/sugar/feedback/anonymous_with_sn/applyto
 +  ownersugar/owner
 +  typebool/type
 +  defaultfalse/default
 +  locale name=C
 +shortAdd XO serial numbers to anonymous submits/short
 +longAdd XO serial numbers to anonymous submits./long
 +  /locale
 +/schema
 +schema
   key/schemas/desktop/sugar/feedback/server_host/key
   applyto/desktop/sugar/feedback/server_host/applyto
   ownersugar/owner
 diff --git a/src/jarabe/model/feedback_collector.py 
 b/src/jarabe/model/feedback_collector.py
 index c0deae2..4671437 100644
 --- a/src/jarabe/model/feedback_collector.py
 +++ b/src/jarabe/model/feedback_collector.py
 @@ -47,7 +47,7 @@ def start(host, port, auto_submit_delay):
 _port = port

 if auto_submit_delay  0:
 -gobject.timeout_add_seconds(auto_submit_delay, _submit)
 +gobject.timeout_add_seconds(auto_submit_delay, anonymous_submit)


  def update(bundle_id, report, log_file):
 @@ -90,7 +90,13 @@ def submit(message):


  def anonymous_submit():
 -_submit()
 +from jarabe.journal import misc
 +
 +data = {}
 +client = gconf.client_get_default()
 +if client.get_bool('/desktop/sugar/feedback/anonymous_with_sn'):
 +data['serial_number'] = misc.get_xo_serial()
 +_submit(data)


  def _submit(data=None):
 --
 1.7.3.4

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 -- 
 Walter Bender
 Sugar Labs
 http://www.sugarlabs.org

 

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Labs Bug: 2485

[Samuel Greenfeld]

I know the journal does not have the limitations that the file system
underneath it does.  The journal also does do some escaping, and at some
point I need to look at that in more detail.


I would be a bit cautious on trusting Wikipedia on this though for
export purposes.  The FAT/VFAT file systems definitely do have character
limits depending on which Microsoft OS you use, and which
codepage/iocharset you mount the file system with.  Linux based OSs
just tend to be extremely lax about enforcing any naming rules.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa365247%28v=vs.85%29.aspx goes
into this a bit.  It's worth noting that things get wierd fast; for
instance ? cannot be a character in a file name, yet it is used for
other things (including requesting special processing for UNC paths, and
tagging files as deleted).

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/brian_dewey/archive/2004/01/19/60263.aspx also
looks a bit on the Microsoft side at how each subsystem in Windows
handles file names differently.



On 02/04/11 08:23, Sascha Silbe wrote:
 Excerpts from Samuel Greenfeld's message of Thu Feb 03 21:27:32 +0100 2011:
 
 [...] While one could make fancy names, and
 add leading whitespace to filenames to override sorting as well, this
 actually does violate at least a few file system specs, regardless of
 what shell prompts seem to tolerate.
 
 All file systems used by the core system support arbitrary byte streams
 (except '/' and ASCII NUL) as file names [1]. In any case we never use a
 value chosen by the user as part of a file name, except when exporting
 entries to external storage. In the latter case it's the task of the
 exporter (the Journal) to choose file names compatible with the target
 file system. We can't and shouldn't rely on the user not using character
 sequences that might be problematic for external systems.
 
 Don't limit the user unless it's really necessary. We can use escaping,
 quoting and similar techniques wherever the literal value would cause
 problems.
 
 Sascha
 
 [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_name#Comparison_of_file_name_limitations

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Labs Bug: 2485

[Samuel Greenfeld]

Personally I don't think this would break a multi-line fancy name unless
the desired effect is to override the centering of every line.  How they
added the extra linefeeds in the middle would be another discussion and
point we need to know.


If we do want to support fancy names, etc., we are going to have to come
up with ways of testing them to make sure that the rest of the system
tolerates them.  Names do not always appear alone.


In general for non-fancy users, I believe we should try and trim
whitespace around names, journal entries, etc. because most users likely
did not mean to add it there .  While one could make fancy names, and
add leading whitespace to filenames to override sorting as well, this
actually does violate at least a few file system specs, regardless of
what shell prompts seem to tolerate.



On 02/03/11 14:39, Frederick Grose wrote:
 On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 2:23 PM, Jordan Homan j.ho...@me.com
 mailto:j.ho...@me.com wrote:
 
 Our team has recently joined Sugar Labs for a team-based school
 project.  We've all installed the Sugar OS using the instructions
 for jhbuild.  Currently, we're looking to start out with something
 simple to familiarize ourselves with the development environment, so
 we're looking at Bug # 2485
 http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/2485 (trimming the About Me
 name).  Could anyone point us in the right direction for finding
 where this might be in the source?
 
 Thanks,
 
 Jordan
 
 
 Thanks for joining Sugar Labs!
 
 Please consider the following:
 
 Since the Learner has control over the appearance of the Identity, see
 for example,
 http://blog.laptop.org/2010/03/24/stickers-and-screen-names-in-paraguay/
 such a change may break some creations.
 
 Should we override the Learner preferences here for ours? or is there
 another problem you see?
 
  --Fred
 
 
 
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Activities not compatible with Sugar-0.90

[Samuel Greenfeld]

The wiki approach has been tried with 
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities (which probably needs a bit of a 
legal/deadlink/does not work with newer OSes/etc. cleanup) but ended up 
a bit of a mess.  I'm not certain if permissions would help much.


To split this page up properly in a wiki would require using the wiki as 
its own database with categories, supported Sugar versions, etc., some 
of which you might want to eventually change with bulk modifications.  
And while my wiki skills are not the best, the self-referencing wiki 
storage of OLPC test cases left me confused about how I could modify 
them without breaking anything going back.


IMHO you basically would have to re-invent activity.sugarlabs.org to put 
it in a wiki, and I'm not certain if that is necessary at this time.



On 01/19/11 09:31, Gonzalo Odiard wrote:



On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Rafael Enrique Ortiz Guerrero 
raf...@sugarlabs.org mailto:raf...@sugarlabs.org wrote:





On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 7:56 AM, Gonzalo Odiard
gonz...@laptop.org mailto:gonz...@laptop.org wrote:

Daniel,
Why not use the wiki like in
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/G1G1/10.1.3 ?
I know is more work maintain the version for every activity,
but we can help with this.

This is not the best way to go, due to various reasons, one of
them is that actvities.sugarlabs.org http://actvities.sugarlabs.org
has filters of edition, wikis are designed to be fully open,  but
in our case could be dangerous, there are examples like doom,
these violent games with the availability to be downloaded  as
 activities generate controversy among teachers and parents (and
also high the alarms between education officials of countries).

Also people can put non-free activities there which we cannot
distribute.
Other advantage is that ASLO is controlled by the same activity
authors not by third parties.


The wiki have permissions too.

Gonzalo


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