No zero
Mac, Am I correct to think there is no Year Zero in any event? Another thought. We use both with zero and without zero systems in our time measurement. I have a radio controlled digital clock and calendar on the wall. At the change of the year, it changes from: 23:59 - 31/12 to 00:00 (with zero system) - 1/1 (without zero system). And most of us don't notice. Merry Christmas! Mike Shaw 53º 22'N 03º02'W www.wiz.to/sundials - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4698 - Release Date: 12/23/11 --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Proceedings for Future of UTC meeting
Dear Mac, You say: May I ask a stupid question? They are often the best. Remember the recent thread started by someone who thought it wrong to imagine that the sun moved across the sky? [I didn't respond to that one, but insisting that the sun stays in the same place would mean you couldn't say Oh, what a beautiful sunset. You would have to say Oh, look at that beautiful horizon-rise instead!] What was wrong with AD and BC? There are strange people who seem to suffer an attack of the vapours when they come across anything hinting at religion. This pretty much rules out studying a good many subjects. You can't study architecture, astronomy and certainly sundials for very long without coming across Egyptian gods, Greek gods, Roman gods, Christian practices, Muslim practices and all the rest. In the case of AD there is the additional problem that it stands for two Latin words and other strange people think that using a dead language isn't user-friendly. They won't get far studying the history of science either! Happily, Latin isn't quite dead. I am one of 40 or so people in my neck of the woods who is actually paid to declaim Latin in public (loudly and with enthusiasm!). Enjoy your 2011 Christmas. Now just what was it that was going on 2011 years ago? Frank King Cambridge, U.K. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Proceedings for Future of UTC meeting
Dear John, I like your story about the times quoted by the Darwin control tower. In some of my introductory talks about sundials I mention Unequal Hours, Babylonian Hours, Italian Hours and so on. Just when the audience thinks this is offering more choice than they can cope with, I explain that things are little better when you use clock time. Your story illustrates this nicely AND also illustrates the use of different levels of precision. I may plagiarise this next time I give such a talk! All the best Frank --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Proceedings for Future of UTC meeting
Dear all, I enjoy calendar stories, I did too took a while to know BP meant Before Present, I actually thought it was a typographic fault in the guides we use in the museum. BP is used among the scientific community to avoid, among other things, the christian connotation. Muslims, Jews and Chinese go their own way, and probably others too. But this thing of CE/BCE seems pointless to me, trying to get rid of the christian connotation by hiding the word but not the concept. I don't mind variety, as long as we are able to translate, as we do with language. BC and AC seems the most clear to me. A little bit of English is needed though. AD, the Anno Domini seems a bit too overloaded, good for the Latin enthusiasts, I'm more on the Greek side of the road. I wish you all a happy winter solstice ( in that we agree, don't we?) full of sunshine for our minds, bodies and sundials. Roser Raluy 42º13'31''N 2º51'43''E 2011/12/24 Frank King frank.k...@cl.cam.ac.uk: Dear John, I like your story about the times quoted by the Darwin control tower. In some of my introductory talks about sundials I mention Unequal Hours, Babylonian Hours, Italian Hours and so on. Just when the audience thinks this is offering more choice than they can cope with, I explain that things are little better when you use clock time. Your story illustrates this nicely AND also illustrates the use of different levels of precision. I may plagiarise this next time I give such a talk! All the best Frank --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Proceedings for Future of UTC meeting
Dear Frank, in my humble opinion, you hit the nail on the head. Merry Christmas to all (or shouldn't I write that any longer?) Helmut Sonderegger Am 24.12.2011 10:40, schrieb Frank King: Dear Mac, You say: May I ask a stupid question? They are often the best. Remember the recent thread started by someone who thought it wrong to imagine that the sun moved across the sky? [I didn't respond to that one, but insisting that the sun stays in the same place would mean you couldn't say Oh, what a beautiful sunset. You would have to say Oh, look at that beautiful horizon-rise instead!] What was wrong with AD and BC? There are strange people who seem to suffer an attack of the vapours when they come across anything hinting at religion. This pretty much rules out studying a good many subjects. You can't study architecture, astronomy and certainly sundials for very long without coming across Egyptian gods, Greek gods, Roman gods, Christian practices, Muslim practices and all the rest. In the case of AD there is the additional problem that it stands for two Latin words and other strange people think that using a dead language isn't user-friendly. They won't get far studying the history of science either! Happily, Latin isn't quite dead. I am one of 40 or so people in my neck of the woods who is actually paid to declaim Latin in public (loudly and with enthusiasm!). Enjoy your 2011 Christmas. Now just what was it that was going on 2011 years ago? Frank King Cambridge, U.K. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
RE: Proceedings for Future of UTC meeting
Frank, you ask, Now just what was it that was going on 2011 years ago? Isn't the correct answer, Not a whole lot! Jesus was only 7 years old... Rejoice in the return of the Sun! Blessed be... Dave -Original Message- From: sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de [mailto:sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de] On Behalf Of Frank King Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2011 1:41 AM To: Mac Oglesby Cc: sund...@rrz.uni-koeln.de Subject: Re: Proceedings for Future of UTC meeting Dear Mac, You say: May I ask a stupid question? They are often the best. Remember the recent thread started by someone who thought it wrong to imagine that the sun moved across the sky? [I didn't respond to that one, but insisting that the sun stays in the same place would mean you couldn't say Oh, what a beautiful sunset. You would have to say Oh, look at that beautiful horizon-rise instead!] What was wrong with AD and BC? There are strange people who seem to suffer an attack of the vapours when they come across anything hinting at religion. This pretty much rules out studying a good many subjects. You can't study architecture, astronomy and certainly sundials for very long without coming across Egyptian gods, Greek gods, Roman gods, Christian practices, Muslim practices and all the rest. In the case of AD there is the additional problem that it stands for two Latin words and other strange people think that using a dead language isn't user-friendly. They won't get far studying the history of science either! Happily, Latin isn't quite dead. I am one of 40 or so people in my neck of the woods who is actually paid to declaim Latin in public (loudly and with enthusiasm!). Enjoy your 2011 Christmas. Now just what was it that was going on 2011 years ago? Frank King Cambridge, U.K. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Proceedings for Future of UTC meeting
Dear Dave, Hmmm. Hard to comment on this... ... Jesus was only 7 years old... Given the absence of zero, 2011 years ago takes us to 1BC. There is a little uncertainty but current best estimates of the date of birth seem to fall in the range 6BC to 4BC which would make the age between 3 and 5 years. I guess we agree that not a whole lot was going on! There is a well-known sundial near where I am sitting which has an inscription that uses A.S. instead of A.D. Brookes and Stanier say that this stands for Anno Salvationis but I feel that Anno Salutis is also a candidate. Both mean In the Year of Salvation and I wonder whether using A.S. might cause less distress to those who need smelling salts when they read A.D.? No doubt someone can tell me how common it is to see A.S. on sundials? We can be fairly sure that you don't often see B.C. on sundials, at least not as the date of manufacture :-) Felix Nativitas Frank --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
RE: Proceedings for Future of UTC meeting
Yeah, my head hurts when I try to visualize an integer line without zero, BC (before coffee), so I was probably off a year, anyway. I used the 7 BC date, as that was the most recent I had heard. That was from Brent Walters, professor of religion at San Jose State University, but he was far from conclusive on it. He just did a fun radio program that was basically The truth about Christmas and Hanukah! Dave -Original Message- From: Frank King [mailto:frank.k...@cl.cam.ac.uk] Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2011 10:15 AM To: Dave Bell Cc: 'Frank King'; sund...@rrz.uni-koeln.de; frank.k...@cl.cam.ac.uk Subject: Re: Proceedings for Future of UTC meeting Dear Dave, Hmmm. Hard to comment on this... ... Jesus was only 7 years old... Given the absence of zero, 2011 years ago takes us to 1BC. There is a little uncertainty but current best estimates of the date of birth seem to fall in the range 6BC to 4BC which would make the age between 3 and 5 years. I guess we agree that not a whole lot was going on! There is a well-known sundial near where I am sitting which has an inscription that uses A.S. instead of A.D. Brookes and Stanier say that this stands for Anno Salvationis but I feel that Anno Salutis is also a candidate. Both mean In the Year of Salvation and I wonder whether using A.S. might cause less distress to those who need smelling salts when they read A.D.? No doubt someone can tell me how common it is to see A.S. on sundials? We can be fairly sure that you don't often see B.C. on sundials, at least not as the date of manufacture :-) Felix Nativitas Frank --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Proceedings for Future of UTC meeting
Hi Roser, You forget that some of us live in the southern hemisphere. Roderick Wall. -Original Message- From: Roser Raluy Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2011 10:35 PM To: Frank King Cc: sundial@uni-koeln.de Subject: Re: Proceedings for Future of UTC meeting I wish you all a happy winter solstice ( in that we agree, don't we?) full of sunshine for our minds, bodies and sundials. Roser Raluy 42º13'31''N 2º51'43''E 2011/12/24 Frank King frank.k...@cl.cam.ac.uk: Dear John, I like your story about the times quoted by the Darwin control tower. In some of my introductory talks about sundials I mention Unequal Hours, Babylonian Hours, Italian Hours and so on. Just when the audience thinks this is offering more choice than they can cope with, I explain that things are little better when you use clock time. Your story illustrates this nicely AND also illustrates the use of different levels of precision. I may plagiarise this next time I give such a talk! All the best Frank --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
