Happy New Year from High Noon Grieskirchen/Austria

[kepleruhr]

 

Kurt

kepler...@gmail.com  

 

https://EarthLAT1200.org

https://KEPLERUHR.eu

 

---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

Re: High Noon

[john . davis]

Hi Mac et al,

Following the previous discussion on this topic, I added High Noon to the 
draft second edition of the BSS Glossary.

My understanding is  that it derives from the term haute nones, i.e. the time 
during the period of nones when the sun is at its highest.  Since nones is the 
early pm period, this makes it the same as our noon.  

By contrast, the term bas nones would be the time when the sun is lowest 
during nones, but luckily we have no equivalent modern term Low Noon as that 
would really confuse us all!

Regards,

John
---

 Now and then I run across the phrase High Noon. Can someone please 
 tell me what that means? I didn't find it in John Davis' excellent 
 glossary.
 
 Best wishes,
 
 Mac Oglesby
 -



Dr J R Davis
Flowton Dials
N52d 08m: E1d 05m
-

Re: High Noon

[Richard Mallett]

 Noon itself derives originally from nine or the ninth hour after
sunrise (probaby 3pm :-) and not when it is apparently highest in the sky.

 Well...   you asked, Mac!

 Maria Brandl Mallacoota 

So how and when did it get shifted from 3 pm to midday ?

Richard.


  E-mail from: Richard Mallett, 27-Jun-2002
-

Re: High Noon

[MMB]

Richard:

 
  Noon itself derives originally from nine or the ninth hour after
 sunrise (probaby 3pm :-) and not when it is apparently highest in the sky.

Richard Mallett asked:
 
 So how and when did it get shifted from 3 pm to midday ?
 

Klaus Eichholz wrote:

My answer is High noon is correlated with the temporal hour None 
used by the monks. But as the Benedict rules demanded to have no food 
before this time it changed  more and more foward. The same thing 
happened with vesper.


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 ...My understanding is  that it derives from the term haute nones, i.e. the 
 time during the period of nones when the sun is at its highest.  Since nones 
 is the early pm period, this makes it the same as our noon.
 
 By contrast, the term bas nones would be the time when the sun is lowest 
 during nones, but luckily we have no equivalent modern term Low Noon as 
 that would really confuse us all!


I will try a summary. The term nones is Latin and the way that the
Romans divided up time is a subject in itself. Their way of reckoning
was inherited by the Christians and is still part of the way religious
name parts of their daily office or cycle of prayers. [As a child
educated by nuns, I recall that the convent bell rang at noon when we
then recited specific prayers. Of course the bells rang at twelve noon
precisely or 'high noon' as opposed to early or later].

The matter of how the Roman/Christian church reckoning of time became
what we use today is another subject but no mystery. I just do not know
where to direct you to look, Richard. Try a web search.

I am sure that when the reckoning of longitude came into the argument,
high noon became crucial and on this group we can all relate to that.

BTW I hope you have all had the opportunity to see the wonderful Charles
Sturridge film Longitude based on Sobel's book.

Maria Brandl
Mallacoota

37° 32' 60S
149° 45' 0E

-

Re: High Noon

[Ron Anthony]

Noon itself derives originally from nine or the ninth hour after
sunrise (probaby 3pm :-) and not when it is apparently highest in the sky.

Now isn't that interesting.  By coincidence or not, the noon hour on old 
Japanese dials and clocks is 9.  There are a couple of math models that explain 
this but the origin of this counting system is not known.

++ron


- Original Message - 
From: MMB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: sundial@rrz.uni-koeln.de
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: High Noon


 
 Mac Oglesby wrote:
  
  Now and then I run across the phrase High Noon. Can someone please
  tell me what that means? I didn't find it in John Davis' excellent
  glossary.
 
 
 I can find no straightforward response. But try these.
 Writers say:
 http://www.writersblock.ca/spring99/a-origin.htm
 
 High noon has long been associated with a crisis or confrontation. The
 classic western film of that name is not the origin, however. The term
 has been used this way in English literature since the 14th century.
 
 I have found online references to high noon referring specifically to
 Midsummer's Day or St John's Day (24th June) when the sun is apparently
 at the highest point for some days. (Druids, Masons).
 
 The dictionary also says high has come to mean important as in high 
 priest.
 
 Noon itself derives originally from nine or the ninth hour after
 sunrise (probaby 3pm :-) and not when it is apparently highest in the sky.
 
 Well...   you asked, Mac!
 
 Maria Brandl
 Mallacoota
 
 37° 32' 60S
 149° 45' 0E
 
 -

-

Re: High Noon

[Eichholz]

Helllo Mac,

some answers were given to you.
My answer is "High noon" is correlated with the temporal 
hour "None" used by the monks.
Butas the Benedict rules demanded to have no food 
before this time it changed more and more foward.
The same thinghappenedwith 
"vesper".
Best wishes

Klaus EichholzZum Ruhrblick 5D44797 
Bochum[EMAIL PROTECTED]


Arbeitskreis Sonnenuhren
Germany



  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Mac Oglesby 
  
  To: sundial@rrz.uni-koeln.de 
  Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 9:22 
  PM
  Subject: High Noon
  Now and then I run across the phrase "High Noon." Can 
  someone please tell me what that means? I didn't find it in John Davis' 
  excellent glossary.Best wishes,Mac 
Oglesby-

High Noon

[Mac Oglesby]

Now and then I run across the phrase High Noon. Can someone please 
tell me what that means? I didn't find it in John Davis' excellent 
glossary.


Best wishes,

Mac Oglesby
-

Re: High Noon

[John Carmichael]

Mac

I thought we killed this cat already!  It's the time of the sun's transit
when it souths and is at its highest altitude during the day.

John

John L. Carmichael Jr.
Sundial Sculptures
925 E. Foothills Dr.
Tucson Arizona 85718
USA

Tel: 520-696-1709
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Website: http://www.sundialsculptures.com
- Original Message -
From: Mac Oglesby [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: sundial@rrz.uni-koeln.de
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 12:22 PM
Subject: High Noon



 Now and then I run across the phrase High Noon. Can someone please
 tell me what that means? I didn't find it in John Davis' excellent
 glossary.

 Best wishes,

 Mac Oglesby
 -


-

Re: High Noon

[J. Tallman]

Mac Oglesby wrote:

 Now and then I run across the phrase High Noon. Can someone please
 tell me what that means? I didn't find it in John Davis' excellent
 glossary.

Hi Mac,

I believe that term means the time of local meridian passage, when the
sun is at it's highest?

Jim Tallman



-

Re: High Noon

[MMB]

Mac Oglesby wrote:
 
 Now and then I run across the phrase High Noon. Can someone please
 tell me what that means? I didn't find it in John Davis' excellent
 glossary.


I can find no straightforward response. But try these.
Writers say:
http://www.writersblock.ca/spring99/a-origin.htm

High noon has long been associated with a crisis or confrontation. The
classic western film of that name is not the origin, however. The term
has been used this way in English literature since the 14th century.

I have found online references to high noon referring specifically to
Midsummer's Day or St John's Day (24th June) when the sun is apparently
at the highest point for some days. (Druids, Masons).

The dictionary also says high has come to mean important as in high priest.

Noon itself derives originally from nine or the ninth hour after
sunrise (probaby 3pm :-) and not when it is apparently highest in the sky.

Well...   you asked, Mac!

Maria Brandl
Mallacoota

37° 32' 60S
149° 45' 0E

-

Off list: High Noon (the movie!) and sundials

[John Pickard]

John,

Hmm, I think that I must disagree with your 
suggestion that Gary Cooper timed his walk out onto the street using a noon mark 
or similar solar device. 

Putting aside the rather bizarre notion of US 
history that is portrayed by Hollywood (or world history for that matter), I 
gleaned a bit of information during a wonderful 6 month sojourn in Tucson, 
Arizona about 6 years ago. My interest was in ranch fencing, and this spread 
over into history of the south west of the US. Being a great fan of The Duke, 
and other purveyors of mom and apple pie, I read a bit about the so-called 
"gun-fighter era". 

Seems that it occurred after the American Civil 
War, and was essentially over by about the 1890s. This was also the time of 
great expansion of both railways ( I refuse to use "railroads". After all, they 
were invented by the British, so the UK term has precedence) and telegraphs. 
Clocks would also have been widely available. I am pretty sure that both Gary 
Cooper and Grace Kelly keep looking at either a clock or a pocket watch. In any 
event,surely both the railway and the telegraph would require timepieces 
other than sundials? 

My final piece of evidence (tongue firmly in cheek) 
is that Frankie Lane's title song from High Noon has a couple of 
lines:

"look at that big hand move along / nearing high noon"

What else can you say?

How about: the six months in Tucson were wonderful, 
and if I could get a job, I'd be back there tomorrow. Great landscape and 
climate, friendly people, great cuisine, and only a couple of hours from Mexico. 
Pity that I didn't know about the sundial list when I was in 
Tucson.

Cheers, John

"Far better an approximate answer to the right question which may be 
difficult to frame,than an exact answer to the wrong question which is 
always easy to ask"John W Tukey, statistician

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  John Carmichael 
  To: John 
  Davis 
  Cc: 
  Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2001 5:59 
  AM
  Subject: Re: Sundial Slang
  
  I knew you'd write back John!
  
  Loved your comments. "High Noon" is a very 
  common and still used_expression_ here in the American Southwest. (In lots 
  of old cowboy movies that's when they have the shootouts. They probably only 
  had sundial and noonmarks back then).It's a favorite of mine, so 
  much so that Iengraved my Flaundrau Planetariumheliochronometer 
  with a High Noon Mark.(again, more guilt feelings!)I'm sure it 
  indicated the time when the sun crosses the N/S meridian and is at its daily 
  highest point, not when it reaches zenith. And it certainlyis not when a 
  clock says 12:00 pm. So you could use this term anywhere in earth, not just 
  tropic latitudes where the sun reaches zenith.
  
  Also, I forgot to mention "Beaded Figure-eights" 
  (Analemmas who's dates/declinations are marked).
  
  And by popular demand, everyone, especially Steve 
  Lelievre, Fred and Fer will pleased thatI don't say "Singleton Dial" 
  anymore!
  
  John
  
  John L. Carmichael Jr.Sundial Sculptures925 E. Foothills 
  Dr.Tucson Arizona 85718USA
  
  Tel: 520-696-1709Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Website: 
  http://www.sundialsculptures.com
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
John Davis 
To: John Carmichael ; sundial@rrz.uni-koeln.de 
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 11:36 
AM
Subject: Re: Sundial Slang

Hi John et al,

I couldn't let this pass without comment :-) 
!!

I'm not sure that I am in any position to "approve" 
the correct terms - the BSS Sundial Glossary is just a collection of the 
bits of information that I've pulled together from various sources, 
including much input from the participants of this list. I have no 
problem with the use of slang terms, especially when they help those poor 
unfortunates that aren't sundial enthusiasts know what we're talking 
about. It does need care, though, not to introduce or reinforce 
misapprehensions. Most of John's terms seem to avoid this, though 
whether they are more easily understood than the "scientific" term is 
    debatable.

One term which is common and not (yet) in the Glossary 
is "High noon". Is this an americanism? I have, of course, seen 
my cowboy movies, but am unclear where the term originates. Is it 
that, with the relatively low latitudes in the south of America, the Sun can 
come close to directly overhead (altitude = 90 degrees) at noon? If 
so, it reinforces the wrong view of much of the UK media that the Sun is at 
the "zenith" at noon. Whilst many ordinary people think of "zenith" as 
the highest point of the arc, astronomically it is defined as the point 
which really is directly overhead (only expressed rather more 
formally!).


Another point to watch is the 
use of "due north