Re: Are there any commercially-available 'Teaching Sundials', for schools ?
Good afternoon Frank, Brilliant response. Here in Australia the nanny state is alive and thriving, so your thoughtful analysis would be welcomed by some local councils. Cheers, John John Pickard john.pick...@bigpond.com - Original Message - From: Frank King frank.k...@cl.cam.ac.uk To: John Carmichael jlcarmich...@comcast.net Cc: sundial@uni-koeln.de Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 1:57 AM Subject: Re: Are there any commercially-available 'Teaching Sundials', for schools ? Dear John You write... How in the world did your local Education Authority reach the absurd conclusion that interactive human analemmatics are dangerous for children. Have you never heard of the expression about being afraid of your own shadow? This is a well-known phobia which has to be taken seriously... Clearly, the Local Education Authority knew all about this risk and maybe had read about children going home in a state of shock after being forced to use their own shadows to tell the time. It gets worse... This would also be a case of using children as experimental subjects. As such, even written consent is insufficient. It has to be clear that you are giving *informed* consent too so you would need to take legal advice before giving such consent. You don't seem to appreciate what a dangerous business we are in :-) I can see that the paperwork involved in letting children loose on an analemmatic sundial is too horrendous to contemplate. Do they outlaw hopscotch too? Don't even think about it. You are getting very close to encouraging child abuse and someone will soon insist that this site is closed down. The world is mad. All the best Frank --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Are there any commercially-available 'Teaching Sundials', for schools ?
I am happy to live in my country, preferring a country already over one year without a governement to a governement so bureaucratic ! Willy Leenders Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website about the sundials in the province of Limburg (Flanders) with a section 'worth knowing about sundials' (mostly in Dutch): http://www.wijzerweb.be Op 23-apr-2011, om 01:27 heeft Martina Addiscott het volgende geschreven: In message 4bf91f91-2e43-4531-8fdb-e98e9db0f...@thebells.net David Bell db...@thebells.net wrote: The only conceivable problem that I could suggest is related to the complaints (were they also from the UK?) of outdoor dials being an attractive nuisance. I can see a flock of unruly kids pushing and shoving to each have a go at the dial. Eventually someone would get hurt, and the local Council doesn't want to be liable... Dave Firstly, thanks to everyone who took the trouble to reply to my query. I do not really have the time to respond to you all, individually - but hope that the following will explain the situation, (and the rather ridiculous attitude adopted by Councils plus Educational Authorities, within the UK). As at least some of you will know, schools must (under the law) conduct a risk assessment of any new addition to the school buildings or grounds. Just as mentioned by Dave Bell and Frank King (though they were probably intended as 'tongue-in-cheek' comments), that is EXACTLY why we cannot get permission for a 'dangerous' Human Sundial painted on to our playground. Basically, the powers that be think that there will be arguments and/or fights between the pupils who want to use it as intended - but also those children who want to use at the same time for other things (and, yes, the central 'scale-of-months' does indeed look a bit like a Hopscotch grid). Not only that, but they feel that enticing (their words, not mine) kids into the sunshine is a 'bad thing' - in case it increases their chance of developing skin cancer in the future, and the Educational Authority does not want to get sued for injuries or health-related compensation claims. I do not know whether this is true or not, (perhaps someone on this List can confirm) - but I was told that schools in Australia have BANNED the use of analemmatic dials on playgrounds, for sunshine/skin cancer reasons. It seems that children in Australian schools must by law wear protective clothing (and hats) when outside in sunshine, within the school grounds. Anything which increases 'exposure-time' to sun, is actively discouraged. At least in the UK, there seems to be a general opinion that any 'public' Human Sundials are a cause of trouble - and I was referred to this page on the Modern Sunclocks website at: www.sunclocks.com/pics/fs-015.htm For all of those above reasons, our request has fallen upon deaf ears, which then led to my request for details on any other 'Teaching Dials'. Sincerely, Martina Addiscott. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
R: Re: Are there any commercially-available 'Teaching Sundials', for schools ?
Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain. Friedrich von Schiller Greetings. Gian Casalegno--- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
RE: Are there any commercially-available 'Teaching Sundials', for schools ?
Martina, et. al., In the world of contradiction that we live in, perhaps some recent articles from the UK itself regarding the NEED for sunlight on the skin would help your authorities come to a better conclusion. (below) After reading these, one would conclude that it would be irresponsible for the school to not have a program that sends students out to watch their shadows move for 15 minutes once a week. And, if the need to prevent students from wrestling each other to the pavement fighting for the right to be the gnomon, paint multiple smaller dials on the pavement so that everyone in the class can simultaneously participate. Sell the sundial as a low cost timer for the students' treatments. Larry Bohlayer - Dec. 10, 2010 New guidance on vitamin D recommends midday sunshine By Jane Dreaper Health correspondent, BBC News New health advice recommends short spells in the sun - without suncream and in the middle of the day. Seven organisations have issued joint advice on vitamin D, which the body gets from natural sunlight. The nutrient keeps bones strong, and protects against conditions like osteoporosis. The guidance was drawn up because it is thought fears about skin cancer have made people too cautious about being in the sun. Cancer Research UK and the National Osteoporosis Society are among the bodies which agree that little and frequent spells in summer sunshine several times a week can benefit your health. The experts now say it is fine to go outside in strong sun in the middle of the day, as long as you cover up or apply sunscreen before your skin goes red. Professor Rona Mackie, from the British Association of Dermatologists, said: Total sun protection with high factor suncream on all the time is not ideal, in terms of vitamin D levels. Even Australia has changed its policy on this. They're now producing charts showing parts of Australia where sun protection may not be required during some parts of the year. .rest of article at http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12013332 - Sunlight is the most effective way for the body to manufacture Vitamin D. Yet in the UK, our bodies can only manufacture Vitamin D from exposure to the sun during the months of May to October. Outside of these months, the sun is simply not strong enough. MYTH: UNPROTECTED SUN EXPOSURE IS UNHEALTHY TRUTH: Although precautions do need to be taken, regular, moderate amounts of unprotected UV exposure are absolutely necessary for good health. Independent scientific research has shown that whether you live in a sunny or not-so-sunny climate, but expose yourself to sun, then your subsequent increased production of vitamin D will help lower the risk of a host of debilitating and fatal diseases including colon, breast, prostate and ovarian cancer, heart disease, high blood pressure, Type 1 diabetes, multiple sclerosis and depression. . rest of article at http://www.sunbedassociation.org.uk/vitamind.php - Fair-skinned people only need around 15 minutes of direct sunlight to produce enough vitamin D to last for several days (although people with darker skin may need more exposure). And it's not suggested that this exposure to the sun has to be every day; instead, a few short exposures a week is considered to be plenty. .rest of article at http://uk.lifestyle.yahoo.com/diet-fitness/soak-sun-%E2%80%94-benefits-vitam in-d-article-ulrb.html - --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: R: Re: Are there any commercially-available 'Teaching Sundials', for schools ?
Maybe they need the type of sundial that doesn't cast a shadow but casts a spot of light. That way the kids can be in the shade. What might be fun for a class is to make a birthday window in the classroom. When a students birthday is approaching ask them to bring in a photo of themselves and stick it to the wall where the sun spot is shining. You could also mark holidays and vacation days, sure to attract the interest of kids. With their attention on the sunspot you could all watch the solstices come and go and determine the equinoxes. You could also watch the sun spot progress during the day and learn lots about declination. Simple and cheap to make, big display, and keeps kids safely away from the sunshine. brent On 4/23/2011 6:06 AM, sun.di...@libero.it wrote: Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain. Friedrich von Schiller Greetings. Gian Casalegno --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Are there any commercially-available 'Teaching Sundials', for schools ?
Hi Martina, An analemmatic sundial may just be painted onto the pavement of the schoolyard, which should - after drying - take away any safety risks. Otherwise you might have a look at: - the Sun Disk from Astrovisuals, http://www.astrovisuals.com.au/SunDisc.html - the Sundial Science Construction Kit from Science Times, http://www.outtolearn.co.nz/product_info.php?products_id=5304 - the sundials (Sonnenuhren) from Astromedia, http://www.astromedia.de/ Good luck with your project, and let us know about the results and your experiences, positive as well as negative. That will comprise valuable information for many of us on the list! Best regards, Frans Maes www.fransmaes.nl/sundials On 22-4-2011 13:19, Martina Addiscott wrote: Is anyone aware of a commercially-available large 'Teaching Sundial', which would be suitable for fulfilling that part of the UK National Curriculum ? As many of you no doubt know, sundials are included in the Science section of that curriculum, but each school decides for themselves how to cover it. We had originally intended to mark an interactive analemmatic dial on to the playground - but our local Educational Authority will not give us their permission for that, because of the 'health and safety' implications (as basically they feel that such layouts are too dangerous for the children). It had also been suggested to us that a large globe-of-the-world might be a good way to cover the necessary aspects (Latitude/Longitude, daily rotation of the earth, night/day, annual change of seasons, etc) - but we feel that there has to be something better and more 'sundial-specific', if only we can trace suppliers of any suitable item being sold at a reasonable price. Len Honey at Science Replicas suggested an individual portable dial, for each pupil - but (apart from the cost), we think that those would soon get damaged (or simply 'go missing'). Instead, if this is possible, we would prefer one large 'demonstration' sundial - ideally in wood or plastic (not metal, as that would be expensive, plus too heavy for a teacher to hold). Though Mr Honey offered to have something specially designed/manufactured for volume sales to schools, it is likely to take some time to implement. Hence my plea to this Mailing List - asking if there are any 'commercial Teaching Sundials' already on the market, and if so, can anyone point me towards the supplier of them. We have a budget of 500 Pounds, for this. Sincerely, Martina Addiscott. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Are there any commercially-available 'Teaching Sundials', for schools ?
On 22/04/2011 12:19, Martina Addiscott wrote: Is anyone aware of a commercially-available large 'Teaching Sundial', which would be suitable for fulfilling that part of the UK National Curriculum ? As many of you no doubt know, sundials are included in the Science section of that curriculum, but each school decides for themselves how to cover it. Hi Martin, You may be interested in my educational 'Multi-dial' which very clearly demonstrates the relationship between four of the most common sundials (Equatorial. horizontal,vertical and polar). A jpeg is too large for the SML so I'll email you a copy separately. (copies available on request for recent members of SML). The dial can be used outdoors in the sunshine or indoors using any suitable bright electric light for classroom demonstrations on a dull day. A 12 volt car headlamp bulb on the end of a 'wand' is ideal but any bright table lamp will do. The example in my photo' is only about 200mm wide but a larger one made of plywood would serve for whole-class demonstrations. One comment made about it was that it conveys the ideas so clearly there is little left to explain. A good fault perhaps. If you've not already seen it then How Sundials Work on the BSS website could be useful too. http://www.sundialsoc.org.uk/HDSW.htm Tony Moss --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Are there any commercially-available 'Teaching Sundials', for schools ?
Harriet James Sunnydials 35 Bradley Road Warminster BA12 8BN www.sunnydials.co.uk Tel: 01985 216311 On Fri 22/04/11 12:19 PM , Martina Addiscott martina.addisc...@gmail.com sent: Is anyone aware of a commercially-available large 'Teaching Sundial', whichwould be suitable for fulfilling that part of the UK National Curriculum ? As many of you no doubt know, sundials are included in the Science sectionof that curriculum, but each school decides for themselves how to cover it. We had originally intended to mark an interactive analemmatic dial on tothe playground - but our local Educational Authority will not give us theirpermission for that, because of the 'health and safety' implications (as --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Are there any commercially-available 'Teaching Sundials', for schools ?
Harriet James Sunnydials 35 Bradley Road Warminster BA12 8BN www.sunnydials.co.uk Tel: 01985 216311 On Fri 22/04/11 12:19 PM , Martina Addiscott martina.addisc...@gmail.com sent: Is anyone aware of a commercially-available large 'Teaching Sundial', whichwould be suitable for fulfilling that part of the UK National Curriculum ? As many of you no doubt know, sundials are included in the Science sectionof that curriculum, but each school decides for themselves how to cover it. We had originally intended to mark an interactive analemmatic dial on tothe playground - but our local Educational Authority will not give us theirpermission for that, because of the 'health and safety' implications (as --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Are there any commercially-available 'Teaching Sundials', for schools ?
If I ever find a child who shows any interest in sundials, I give them a copy of Sundials and Timedials from Tarquin publications. See: http://www.tarquingroup.com/product.php?SKU_Code=438 Only £5.95 a copy and there are loads of paper dials to make of all different types. Mike Shaw 53º 22'N 03º02'W www.wiz.to/sundials --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
RE: Are there any commercially-available 'Teaching Sundials', for schools ?
Hi Martina: I'm most curious. How in the world did your local Education Authority reach the absurd conclusion that interactive human analemmatics are dangerous for children. Do they outlaw hopscotch too? John Carmichael -Original Message- From: sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de [mailto:sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de] On Behalf Of Martina Addiscott Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 4:19 AM To: sundial@uni-koeln.de Subject: Are there any commercially-available 'Teaching Sundials', for schools ? Is anyone aware of a commercially-available large 'Teaching Sundial', which would be suitable for fulfilling that part of the UK National Curriculum ? As many of you no doubt know, sundials are included in the Science section of that curriculum, but each school decides for themselves how to cover it. We had originally intended to mark an interactive analemmatic dial on to the playground - but our local Educational Authority will not give us their permission for that, because of the 'health and safety' implications (as basically they feel that such layouts are too dangerous for the children). It had also been suggested to us that a large globe-of-the-world might be a good way to cover the necessary aspects (Latitude/Longitude, daily rotation of the earth, night/day, annual change of seasons, etc) - but we feel that there has to be something better and more 'sundial-specific', if only we can trace suppliers of any suitable item being sold at a reasonable price. Len Honey at Science Replicas suggested an individual portable dial, for each pupil - but (apart from the cost), we think that those would soon get damaged (or simply 'go missing'). Instead, if this is possible, we would prefer one large 'demonstration' sundial - ideally in wood or plastic (not metal, as that would be expensive, plus too heavy for a teacher to hold). Though Mr Honey offered to have something specially designed/manufactured for volume sales to schools, it is likely to take some time to implement. Hence my plea to this Mailing List - asking if there are any 'commercial Teaching Sundials' already on the market, and if so, can anyone point me towards the supplier of them. We have a budget of 500 Pounds, for this. Sincerely, Martina Addiscott. -- --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Are there any commercially-available 'Teaching Sundials', for schools ?
Martina I suggest you try again with a walk-on dial. Just show some photos of them in use to the School Board. I have a walk-on dial program for schools and have had questions from school heads about the danger of ' falling on the pointed thing' to questions about the religious bias of zodiac signs. The 'pointed things' are of course the kids themselves, and walk-ons do not have zodiac signs (except sometimes as pure decoration; and anyway they predate Christ and Mohammed by at least 1000 years). I also use cardboard cutouts for the kids to make ordinary horizontal dials, at least a few take them home and put them in a south facing window. Also the Shepherd's dial creates interest when you explain the French shepherds in the mountains used them hung on their belts to tell them when to take the sheep into safety away from the wolves. With 500 quid you can get a very good walk-on and lots of cardboard dials! Brian Albinson On 04/22/2011 4:19 AM, Martina Addiscott wrote: Is anyone aware of a commercially-available large 'Teaching Sundial', which would be suitable for fulfilling that part of the UK National Curriculum ? As many of you no doubt know, sundials are included in the Science section of that curriculum, but each school decides for themselves how to cover it. We had originally intended to mark an interactive analemmatic dial on to the playground - but our local Educational Authority will not give us their permission for that, because of the 'health and safety' implications (as basically they feel that such layouts are too dangerous for the children). It had also been suggested to us that a large globe-of-the-world might be a good way to cover the necessary aspects (Latitude/Longitude, daily rotation of the earth, night/day, annual change of seasons, etc) - but we feel that there has to be something better and more 'sundial-specific', if only we can trace suppliers of any suitable item being sold at a reasonable price. Len Honey at Science Replicas suggested an individual portable dial, for each pupil - but (apart from the cost), we think that those would soon get damaged (or simply 'go missing'). Instead, if this is possible, we would prefer one large 'demonstration' sundial - ideally in wood or plastic (not metal, as that would be expensive, plus too heavy for a teacher to hold). Though Mr Honey offered to have something specially designed/manufactured for volume sales to schools, it is likely to take some time to implement. Hence my plea to this Mailing List - asking if there are any 'commercial Teaching Sundials' already on the market, and if so, can anyone point me towards the supplier of them. We have a budget of 500 Pounds, for this. Sincerely, Martina Addiscott. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Are there any commercially-available 'Teaching Sundials', for schools ?
Dear John You write... How in the world did your local Education Authority reach the absurd conclusion that interactive human analemmatics are dangerous for children. Have you never heard of the expression about being afraid of your own shadow? This is a well-known phobia which has to be taken seriously... Clearly, the Local Education Authority knew all about this risk and maybe had read about children going home in a state of shock after being forced to use their own shadows to tell the time. It gets worse... This would also be a case of using children as experimental subjects. As such, even written consent is insufficient. It has to be clear that you are giving *informed* consent too so you would need to take legal advice before giving such consent. You don't seem to appreciate what a dangerous business we are in :-) I can see that the paperwork involved in letting children loose on an analemmatic sundial is too horrendous to contemplate. Do they outlaw hopscotch too? Don't even think about it. You are getting very close to encouraging child abuse and someone will soon insist that this site is closed down. The world is mad. All the best Frank --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Are there any commercially-available 'Teaching Sundials', for schools ?
The British Sundial Society has an excellent book 'Make a Sundial' most recently updated by Jane Walker, originally brought out in response to the National Curriculum's inclusion of sundials. All sorts of ideas in it. Painted analemmatic sundials present NO HAZARD to children. If the Education Authority can give you one well-substantiated hazard, I'd be very surprised. There's more danger going in and out of a door, which they must all do at least ten times a day. David Brown Somerton, Somerset, UK --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Are there any commercially-available 'Teaching Sundials', for schools ?
The only conceivable problem that I could suggest is related to the complaints (were they also from the UK?) of outdoor dials being an attractive nuisance. I can see a flock of unruly kids pushing and shoving to each have a go at the dial. Eventually someone would get hurt, and the local Council doesn't want to be liable... Dave Sent from my iPhone On Apr 22, 2011, at 9:05 AM, David M Brown da...@davidbrownsundials.com wrote: The British Sundial Society has an excellent book 'Make a Sundial' most recently updated by Jane Walker, originally brought out in response to the National Curriculum's inclusion of sundials. All sorts of ideas in it. Painted analemmatic sundials present NO HAZARD to children. If the Education Authority can give you one well-substantiated hazard, I'd be very surprised. There's more danger going in and out of a door, which they must all do at least ten times a day. David Brown Somerton, Somerset, UK --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Are there any commercially-available 'Teaching Sundials', for schools ?
Hello Martina, Setting aside the matter of Educational Authorities who cannot think (!), I also agree that you might like to give this another go in order to allow the Authority to think again. There is another type of dial you might try on them – one that can also be painted on the ground and where the person standing on it casts the shadow in a similar way to an analemmatic dial. This is the human nodus horizontal dial where the dial is a conventional (though large) horizontal dial and the person stands on the noon line at a point on a scale of heights such that the top of their head is at the same height as a real gnomon would be. These are strangely rare (at least in the UK) with only a few known. John Moir’s one at Poplar in London is a recent example and it’s hard to see how any thinking person could object to something like this for children. Not only that but its operation is much easier to explain and to compare with conventional horizontal dials and also of course, given the solar time it can be used to determine the child’s height – something which they find fun. If you are interested there is an image of John’s really excellent dial in Aberfeldy Millennium Green, Poplar, London E14 at this URL: http://www.ppowers.com/poplar.htm Patrick From: Martina Addiscott Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 12:19 PM To: sundial@uni-koeln.de Subject: Are there any commercially-available 'Teaching Sundials',for schools ? Is anyone aware of a commercially-available large 'Teaching Sundial', which would be suitable for fulfilling that part of the UK National Curriculum ? As many of you no doubt know, sundials are included in the Science section of that curriculum, but each school decides for themselves how to cover it. We had originally intended to mark an interactive analemmatic dial on to the playground - but our local Educational Authority will not give us their permission for that, because of the 'health and safety' implications (as basically they feel that such layouts are too dangerous for the children). It had also been suggested to us that a large globe-of-the-world might be a good way to cover the necessary aspects (Latitude/Longitude, daily rotation of the earth, night/day, annual change of seasons, etc) - but we feel that there has to be something better and more 'sundial-specific', if only we can trace suppliers of any suitable item being sold at a reasonable price. Len Honey at Science Replicas suggested an individual portable dial, for each pupil - but (apart from the cost), we think that those would soon get damaged (or simply 'go missing'). Instead, if this is possible, we would prefer one large 'demonstration' sundial - ideally in wood or plastic (not metal, as that would be expensive, plus too heavy for a teacher to hold). Though Mr Honey offered to have something specially designed/manufactured for volume sales to schools, it is likely to take some time to implement. Hence my plea to this Mailing List - asking if there are any 'commercial Teaching Sundials' already on the market, and if so, can anyone point me towards the supplier of them. We have a budget of 500 Pounds, for this. Sincerely, Martina Addiscott. -- --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Are there any commercially-available 'Teaching Sundials', for schools ?
Hello Martina, Setting aside the matter of Educational Authorities who cannot think (!), I also agree that you might like to give this another go in order to allow the Authority to think again. There is another type of dial you might try on them – one that can also be painted on the ground and where the person standing on it casts the shadow in a similar way to an analemmatic dial. This is the human nodus horizontal dial where the dial is a conventional (though large) horizontal dial and the person stands on the noon line at a point on a scale of heights such that the top of their head is at the same height as a real gnomon would be. These are strangely rare (at least in the UK) with only a few known. John Moir’s one at Poplar in London is a recent example and it’s hard to see how any thinking person could object to something like this for children. Not only that but its operation is much easier to explain and to compare with conventional horizontal dials and also of course, given the solar time it can be used to determine the child’s height – something which they find fun. If you are interested there is an image of John’s really excellent dial in Aberfeldy Millennium Green, Poplar, London E14 at this URL: http://www.ppowers.com/poplar.htm Patrick -Original Message- From: Martina Addiscott martina.addisc...@gmail.com To: sundial sundial@uni-koeln.de Sent: Fri, Apr 22, 2011 8:33 am Subject: Are there any commercially-available 'Teaching Sundials', for schools ? Is anyone aware of a commercially-available large 'Teaching Sundial', which would be suitable for fulfilling that part of the UK National Curriculum ? As many of you no doubt know, sundials are included in the Science section of that curriculum, but each school decides for themselves how to cover it. We had originally intended to mark an interactive analemmatic dial on to the playground - but our local Educational Authority will not give us their permission for that, because of the 'health and safety' implications (as basically they feel that such layouts are too dangerous for the children). It had also been suggested to us that a large globe-of-the-world might be a good way to cover the necessary aspects (Latitude/Longitude, daily rotation of the earth, night/day, annual change of seasons, etc) - but we feel that there has to be something better and more 'sundial-specific', if only we can trace suppliers of any suitable item being sold at a reasonable price. Len Honey at Science Replicas suggested an individual portable dial, for each pupil - but (apart from the cost), we think that those would soon get damaged (or simply 'go missing'). Instead, if this is possible, we would prefer one large 'demonstration' sundial - ideally in wood or plastic (not metal, as that would be expensive, plus too heavy for a teacher to hold). Though Mr Honey offered to have something specially designed/manufactured for volume sales to schools, it is likely to take some time to implement. Hence my plea to this Mailing List - asking if there are any 'commercial Teaching Sundials' already on the market, and if so, can anyone point me towards the supplier of them. We have a budget of 500 Pounds, for this. Sincerely, Martina Addiscott. -- --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
RE: Are there any commercially-available 'Teaching Sundials', for schools ? - YES!
Hi Matina and friends, A couple of years ago I had the good fortune to be responsible for the sundials case study on the Bowland DVD that was sent to all state schools in the UK. This DVD contains 21 case studies for 11-14 year olds to use in mathematics lessons, the objective being to enthuse them about mathematics. The materials can be downloaded free of charge in the UK by visiting www.bowlandmaths.org.uk Then click on 'Run the Bowland Player online' Then click on 'The case Studies' and find the sundials one - there's LOTS of sundial related material there which was tested in schools and made it through to the final DVD. All mathematics faculties in state schools in the UK received this DVD. However outside the UK there is a charge of £200 for the DVD since the cost of all the work was met by the Bowland Charitable Organisation. Enjoy! Peter Ransom Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 12:19:19 +0100 From: martina.addisc...@gmail.com To: sundial@uni-koeln.de Subject: Are there any commercially-available 'Teaching Sundials', for schools ? Is anyone aware of a commercially-available large 'Teaching Sundial', which would be suitable for fulfilling that part of the UK National Curriculum ? As many of you no doubt know, sundials are included in the Science section of that curriculum, but each school decides for themselves how to cover it. We had originally intended to mark an interactive analemmatic dial on to the playground - but our local Educational Authority will not give us their permission for that, because of the 'health and safety' implications (as basically they feel that such layouts are too dangerous for the children). It had also been suggested to us that a large globe-of-the-world might be a good way to cover the necessary aspects (Latitude/Longitude, daily rotation of the earth, night/day, annual change of seasons, etc) - but we feel that there has to be something better and more 'sundial-specific', if only we can trace suppliers of any suitable item being sold at a reasonable price. Len Honey at Science Replicas suggested an individual portable dial, for each pupil - but (apart from the cost), we think that those would soon get damaged (or simply 'go missing'). Instead, if this is possible, we would prefer one large 'demonstration' sundial - ideally in wood or plastic (not metal, as that would be expensive, plus too heavy for a teacher to hold). Though Mr Honey offered to have something specially designed/manufactured for volume sales to schools, it is likely to take some time to implement. Hence my plea to this Mailing List - asking if there are any 'commercial Teaching Sundials' already on the market, and if so, can anyone point me towards the supplier of them. We have a budget of 500 Pounds, for this. Sincerely, Martina Addiscott. -- --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Are there any commercially-available 'Teaching Sundials', for schools ?
In message 4bf91f91-2e43-4531-8fdb-e98e9db0f...@thebells.net David Bell db...@thebells.net wrote: The only conceivable problem that I could suggest is related to the complaints (were they also from the UK?) of outdoor dials being an attractive nuisance. I can see a flock of unruly kids pushing and shoving to each have a go at the dial. Eventually someone would get hurt, and the local Council doesn't want to be liable... Dave Firstly, thanks to everyone who took the trouble to reply to my query. I do not really have the time to respond to you all, individually - but hope that the following will explain the situation, (and the rather ridiculous attitude adopted by Councils plus Educational Authorities, within the UK). As at least some of you will know, schools must (under the law) conduct a risk assessment of any new addition to the school buildings or grounds. Just as mentioned by Dave Bell and Frank King (though they were probably intended as 'tongue-in-cheek' comments), that is EXACTLY why we cannot get permission for a 'dangerous' Human Sundial painted on to our playground. Basically, the powers that be think that there will be arguments and/or fights between the pupils who want to use it as intended - but also those children who want to use at the same time for other things (and, yes, the central 'scale-of-months' does indeed look a bit like a Hopscotch grid). Not only that, but they feel that enticing (their words, not mine) kids into the sunshine is a 'bad thing' - in case it increases their chance of developing skin cancer in the future, and the Educational Authority does not want to get sued for injuries or health-related compensation claims. I do not know whether this is true or not, (perhaps someone on this List can confirm) - but I was told that schools in Australia have BANNED the use of analemmatic dials on playgrounds, for sunshine/skin cancer reasons. It seems that children in Australian schools must by law wear protective clothing (and hats) when outside in sunshine, within the school grounds. Anything which increases 'exposure-time' to sun, is actively discouraged. At least in the UK, there seems to be a general opinion that any 'public' Human Sundials are a cause of trouble - and I was referred to this page on the Modern Sunclocks website at: www.sunclocks.com/pics/fs-015.htm For all of those above reasons, our request has fallen upon deaf ears, which then led to my request for details on any other 'Teaching Dials'. Sincerely, Martina Addiscott. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
RE: Are there any commercially-available 'Teaching Sundials', for schools ?
And I thought we had a near monopoly on stupidity in bureaucracy and litigation phobia in the US! Very, very sad... Dave -Original Message- From: sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de [mailto:sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de] On Behalf Of Martina Addiscott Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 4:27 PM To: sundial@uni-koeln.de Subject: Re: Are there any commercially-available 'Teaching Sundials',for schools ? In message 4bf91f91-2e43-4531-8fdb-e98e9db0f...@thebells.net David Bell db...@thebells.net wrote: The only conceivable problem that I could suggest is related to the complaints (were they also from the UK?) of outdoor dials being an attractive nuisance. I can see a flock of unruly kids pushing and shoving to each have a go at the dial. Eventually someone would get hurt, and the local Council doesn't want to be liable... Dave Firstly, thanks to everyone who took the trouble to reply to my query. I do not really have the time to respond to you all, individually - but hope that the following will explain the situation, (and the rather ridiculous attitude adopted by Councils plus Educational Authorities, within the UK). As at least some of you will know, schools must (under the law) conduct a risk assessment of any new addition to the school buildings or grounds. Just as mentioned by Dave Bell and Frank King (though they were probably intended as 'tongue-in-cheek' comments), that is EXACTLY why we cannot get permission for a 'dangerous' Human Sundial painted on to our playground. Basically, the powers that be think that there will be arguments and/or fights between the pupils who want to use it as intended - but also those children who want to use at the same time for other things (and, yes, the central 'scale-of-months' does indeed look a bit like a Hopscotch grid). Not only that, but they feel that enticing (their words, not mine) kids into the sunshine is a 'bad thing' - in case it increases their chance of developing skin cancer in the future, and the Educational Authority does not want to get sued for injuries or health-related compensation claims. I do not know whether this is true or not, (perhaps someone on this List can confirm) - but I was told that schools in Australia have BANNED the use of analemmatic dials on playgrounds, for sunshine/skin cancer reasons. It seems that children in Australian schools must by law wear protective clothing (and hats) when outside in sunshine, within the school grounds. Anything which increases 'exposure-time' to sun, is actively discouraged. At least in the UK, there seems to be a general opinion that any 'public' Human Sundials are a cause of trouble - and I was referred to this page on the Modern Sunclocks website at: www.sunclocks.com/pics/fs-015.htm For all of those above reasons, our request has fallen upon deaf ears, which then led to my request for details on any other 'Teaching Dials'. Sincerely, Martina Addiscott. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
RE: Are there any commercially-available 'Teaching Sundials', for schools ?
Me too. So much so, as an American I had to share Martina's and Dave's last post with my British wife who thinks the Americans are just sue happy Hard to believe that there was a day when people sued far more often in the States than now. And more importantly how such concerns too often override such easy interactive learning experiences for our youth Thad Weakley Montreal, Quebec --- On Fri, 4/22/11, Dave Bell db...@thebells.net wrote: From: Dave Bell db...@thebells.net Subject: RE: Are there any commercially-available 'Teaching Sundials', for schools ? To: 'Martina Addiscott' martina.addisc...@gmail.com, sundial@uni-koeln.de Received: Friday, April 22, 2011, 8:31 PM And I thought we had a near monopoly on stupidity in bureaucracy and litigation phobia in the US! Very, very sad... Dave -Original Message- From: sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de [mailto:sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de] On Behalf Of Martina Addiscott Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 4:27 PM To: sundial@uni-koeln.de Subject: Re: Are there any commercially-available 'Teaching Sundials',for schools ? In message 4bf91f91-2e43-4531-8fdb-e98e9db0f...@thebells.net David Bell db...@thebells.net wrote: The only conceivable problem that I could suggest is related to the complaints (were they also from the UK?) of outdoor dials being an attractive nuisance. I can see a flock of unruly kids pushing and shoving to each have a go at the dial. Eventually someone would get hurt, and the local Council doesn't want to be liable... Dave Firstly, thanks to everyone who took the trouble to reply to my query. I do not really have the time to respond to you all, individually - but hope that the following will explain the situation, (and the rather ridiculous attitude adopted by Councils plus Educational Authorities, within the UK). As at least some of you will know, schools must (under the law) conduct a risk assessment of any new addition to the school buildings or grounds. Just as mentioned by Dave Bell and Frank King (though they were probably intended as 'tongue-in-cheek' comments), that is EXACTLY why we cannot get permission for a 'dangerous' Human Sundial painted on to our playground. Basically, the powers that be think that there will be arguments and/or fights between the pupils who want to use it as intended - but also those children who want to use at the same time for other things (and, yes, the central 'scale-of-months' does indeed look a bit like a Hopscotch grid). Not only that, but they feel that enticing (their words, not mine) kids into the sunshine is a 'bad thing' - in case it increases their chance of developing skin cancer in the future, and the Educational Authority does not want to get sued for injuries or health-related compensation claims. I do not know whether this is true or not, (perhaps someone on this List can confirm) - but I was told that schools in Australia have BANNED the use of analemmatic dials on playgrounds, for sunshine/skin cancer reasons. It seems that children in Australian schools must by law wear protective clothing (and hats) when outside in sunshine, within the school grounds. Anything which increases 'exposure-time' to sun, is actively discouraged. At least in the UK, there seems to be a general opinion that any 'public' Human Sundials are a cause of trouble - and I was referred to this page on the Modern Sunclocks website at: www.sunclocks.com/pics/fs-015.htm For all of those above reasons, our request has fallen upon deaf ears, which then led to my request for details on any other 'Teaching Dials'. Sincerely, Martina Addiscott. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
