Re: Good bye SeaMonkey Browser

2020-08-15 Thread Frank-Rainer Grahl




Ray_Net wrote:

EE wrote on 15-08-20 19:21:

Lance Courtland wrote:


Parting is such sweet sorrow.

Lance


Why use Chrome? 
Because Chrome works with ZOOM ... and a lot of sites have problem with SM, 
per example, You can fill a form but the XMIT button did not work using SM.




Should I hand you a tissue so that you can whine quietly and in private? As 
stated that was never a supported feature and we do what we can. If it is not 
enough for you just leave. A lot of sites I never vist have probably problems. 
The ones I use frequently still work but I am staying away from google based 
services where 90% of the bigger problems are.


FRG
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Re: Good bye SeaMonkey Browser

2020-08-15 Thread Ray_Net

Lance Courtland wrote on 15-08-20 22:59:

Ray_Net wrote:

Lance Courtland wrote on 15-08-20 02:27:
It is with much sadness that I must abandon SeaMonkey as a web 
browser. I have been a loyal user since Mosaic in 1993, then 
Netscape Navigator, then SM. However, I have become overwhelmed by 
the quantity and complexity of fixes, tweaks, configs, spoofs, and 
kluges, each constantly needing updating, to get SM to fully 
function on a wide variety of URLs at a rapid speed.


Where once its customizability was a bonus, it is now a burden. SM 
seems to have been brought down by the difference between "you can 
do all this to make it work however you want" and "you have to do 
all this to make it work at all."


I certainly appreciate all the hard work a dwindling number of 
developers have put in to keep SM alive.


I will continue to use the Mail & Newsgroup functions, which I like 
a lot.  I have managed to make email links clicked in SM Email open 
in Chrome, which is now my default. I have always resisted adopting 
the most current offering from the Macrofirms of the digital world, 
but it has become too burdensome to continue being a browser salmon.



Why not using Thunderbird as mail program instead of SM ?

Ray_Net,

Because I already have SM mail working the way I like it, and I don't 
want to have to go through a new install, configuration, connecting to 
4 email accounts, and figure out how to get TB to open links in Chrome.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
I suppose that because thunderbird is not a suite, the only way of 
starting a browser to open  a link is to pass the link information to 
the default browser - more simple than using SM.

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Re: updates

2020-08-15 Thread Ken Rudolph

Don Spam's Reckless Son wrote:

Ken Rudolph wrote:
After all these years (since Netscape 1.0) I've basically given up on 
the SeaMonkey browser, replacing it with Firefox.  However, out of 
habit and utility, I still use SeaMonkey 2.49.1 for e-mail and 
Composer for updating my web site (I have separate links to open only 
those portions of the suite).  This means when I click on an e-mail 
link it opens the SeaMonkey browser in a separate window...which is OK 
by me usually. More often I just ^C the link and then paste it in 
Firefox.


This is working fine for me.  I've always been scared in the past when 
I had to manually do a SeaMonkey version update.  It always did work; 
but I had nervous moments fearful that I'd lose my profile etc.  
Obviously I haven't updated SeaMonkey for a while now.  I see the 
current version is 2.53.3.  So here's my question.  In my situation, 
should I do the SeaMonkey update just for the e-mail and composer 
parts?  Would there be some major advantage to doing the update?  
Everything that I need to do with the SeaMonkey portions other than 
the browser itself is working fine.  Do I need to do the update to the 
entire suite for some reason?


Thank you for Mozilla, however I use it!!



You can't update "just the e-mail and composer parts", it is one 
program.  I have absolutely no idea which Thunderbird fixes have gone in 
since 2.49.1, very little has happened with composer.  Lightning is now 
included, it was not back then.
If you do upgrade - and I see no reason not to - there are a couple of 
things you need to worry about:
- Starting 2.49.5, Seamonkey comes in 32-bit and 64-bit versions.  If 
you are going to move to a 64-bit version, UNINSTALL THE OLD VERSION  > BEFORE INSTALLING THE NEW ONE.  This is because installing a 64-bit
version will not remove a 32-bit version, something which can have fatal 
side-effects.


I'm not sure if I have the 32 or 64 bit version of SeaMonkey.  I do see 
this in "about":


User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:52.0) 
Gecko/20100101 Firefox/52.0 SeaMonkey/2.49.1


Does that x64 mean 64 bit version even if it is SM 2.49.1?

I've never worried about that in previous updates to SM.  But now you 
have me thinking that I better know whether to uninstall my current 
version (something that worries me) or not if it is the 32-bit version.


Thank you for the advice!

--
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Re: Good bye SeaMonkey Browser

2020-08-15 Thread Lance Courtland

Ray_Net wrote:

Lance Courtland wrote on 15-08-20 02:27:
It is with much sadness that I must abandon SeaMonkey as a web 
browser. I have been a loyal user since Mosaic in 1993, then Netscape 
Navigator, then SM.  However, I have become overwhelmed by the 
quantity and complexity of fixes, tweaks, configs, spoofs, and kluges, 
each constantly needing updating, to get SM to fully function on a 
wide variety of URLs at a rapid speed.


Where once its customizability was a bonus, it is now a burden. SM 
seems to have been brought down by the difference between "you can do 
all this to make it work however you want" and "you have to do all 
this to make it work at all."


I certainly appreciate all the hard work a dwindling number of 
developers have put in to keep SM alive.


I will continue to use the Mail & Newsgroup functions, which I like a 
lot.  I have managed to make email links clicked in SM Email open in 
Chrome, which is now my default.  I have always resisted adopting the 
most current offering from the Macrofirms of the digital world, but it 
has become too burdensome to continue being a browser salmon.



Why not using Thunderbird as mail program instead of SM ?

Ray_Net,

Because I already have SM mail working the way I like it, and I don't 
want to have to go through a new install, configuration, connecting to 4 
email accounts, and figure out how to get TB to open links in Chrome.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
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Re: Good bye SeaMonkey Browser

2020-08-15 Thread Ray_Net

EE wrote on 15-08-20 19:21:

Lance Courtland wrote:
It is with much sadness that I must abandon SeaMonkey as a web 
browser. I have been a loyal user since Mosaic in 1993, then Netscape 
Navigator, then SM. However, I have become overwhelmed by the 
quantity and complexity of fixes, tweaks, configs, spoofs, and 
kluges, each constantly needing updating, to get SM to fully function 
on a wide variety of URLs at a rapid speed.


Where once its customizability was a bonus, it is now a burden. SM 
seems to have been brought down by the difference between "you can do 
all this to make it work however you want" and "you have to do all 
this to make it work at all."


I certainly appreciate all the hard work a dwindling number of 
developers have put in to keep SM alive.


I will continue to use the Mail & Newsgroup functions, which I like a 
lot.  I have managed to make email links clicked in SM Email open in 
Chrome, which is now my default.  I have always resisted adopting the 
most current offering from the Macrofirms of the digital world, but 
it has become too burdensome to continue being a browser salmon.


Parting is such sweet sorrow.

Lance


Why use Chrome? 
Because Chrome works with ZOOM ... and a lot of sites have problem with 
SM, per example, You can fill a form but the XMIT button did not work 
using SM.


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Re: Good bye SeaMonkey Browser

2020-08-15 Thread Ray_Net

Lance Courtland wrote on 15-08-20 02:27:
It is with much sadness that I must abandon SeaMonkey as a web 
browser. I have been a loyal user since Mosaic in 1993, then Netscape 
Navigator, then SM.  However, I have become overwhelmed by the 
quantity and complexity of fixes, tweaks, configs, spoofs, and kluges, 
each constantly needing updating, to get SM to fully function on a 
wide variety of URLs at a rapid speed.


Where once its customizability was a bonus, it is now a burden. SM 
seems to have been brought down by the difference between "you can do 
all this to make it work however you want" and "you have to do all 
this to make it work at all."


I certainly appreciate all the hard work a dwindling number of 
developers have put in to keep SM alive.


I will continue to use the Mail & Newsgroup functions, which I like a 
lot.  I have managed to make email links clicked in SM Email open in 
Chrome, which is now my default.  I have always resisted adopting the 
most current offering from the Macrofirms of the digital world, but it 
has become too burdensome to continue being a browser salmon.



Why not using Thunderbird as mail program instead of SM ?
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Re: Good bye SeaMonkey Browser

2020-08-15 Thread Frank-Rainer Grahl



EE wrote:

Lance Courtland wrote:


Lance


Why use Chrome?  It is spyware, and reports where you browse back to Google.  
I made my default browser Pale Moon, and I like it.  I have other chromium 
browsers, but not Chrome.




If you use Pale Moon you can continue using SeaMonkey. Waste of time if you 
are after web compatibility with newer sites.


FRG

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Re: Good bye SeaMonkey Browser

2020-08-15 Thread EE

Lance Courtland wrote:
It is with much sadness that I must abandon SeaMonkey as a web browser. 
I have been a loyal user since Mosaic in 1993, then Netscape Navigator, 
then SM.  However, I have become overwhelmed by the quantity and 
complexity of fixes, tweaks, configs, spoofs, and kluges, each 
constantly needing updating, to get SM to fully function on a wide 
variety of URLs at a rapid speed.


Where once its customizability was a bonus, it is now a burden.  SM 
seems to have been brought down by the difference between "you can do 
all this to make it work however you want" and "you have to do all this 
to make it work at all."


I certainly appreciate all the hard work a dwindling number of 
developers have put in to keep SM alive.


I will continue to use the Mail & Newsgroup functions, which I like a 
lot.  I have managed to make email links clicked in SM Email open in 
Chrome, which is now my default.  I have always resisted adopting the 
most current offering from the Macrofirms of the digital world, but it 
has become too burdensome to continue being a browser salmon.


Parting is such sweet sorrow.

Lance


Why use Chrome?  It is spyware, and reports where you browse back to 
Google.  I made my default browser Pale Moon, and I like it.  I have 
other chromium browsers, but not Chrome.


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Read/unread marks in newsgroups are reset each time I start SM.

2020-08-15 Thread AndrésH

Hello,

I observe that recently the status of the messages of this newsgroup 
doesn't persist after exiting the program.


After reading a message its status goes to read, but when I exit and 
restart the program it shows as unread again.


I have tried to repair the folder, but the problem persists.
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Re: Eyeball icon on _SOME_ USENET threads that I've replied to.

2020-08-15 Thread Ant

On 8/15/2020 8:20 AM, Edward wrote:

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1125945

One of the comments states that it is 'set' when Message/Watch Thread is 
selected.


Maybe accidental "W" hotkey to watch the thread?
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Re: constipated email continues

2020-08-15 Thread Edward

WaltS48 wrote:

On 8/15/20 11:16 AM, Edward wrote:


As to why you can login via AOL but not Yahoo, my first guess would be 
that AOL and Yahoo have separate authentication servers on the web side.


Can you provide a citation of this move?


Sorry, it's only a guess...

Have you contacted Yahoo Support to find out why the login only works 
via AOL? Since Yahoo is running everything now, I would /hope/ they 
would have an answer for you. It would make some sense to have one 
unified authentication server for all (Yahoo and AOL) services, but 
apparently, they must have chosen not to do it that way.







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Re: Eyeball icon on _SOME_ USENET threads that I've replied to.

2020-08-15 Thread Edward

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1125945

One of the comments states that it is 'set' when Message/Watch Thread is 
selected.

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Re: constipated email continues

2020-08-15 Thread Edward

WaltS48 wrote:

On 8/15/20 10:28 AM, Edward wrote:

David H. Durgee wrote:


The POP3 mail server (pop.verizon.net) does not support UIDL or XTND
XLST, which are required to implement the ``Leave on Server'', ``Maximum
Message Size'' or ``Fetch Headers Only'' options. To download your mail,
turn off these options in the Server Settings for your mail server in
the Account Settings window.


Verizon's e-mail, as well as AOL's, are now hosted at Yahoo.

In order to retrieve IMAP mail from them within reasonable duration 
since IMAP PUSH isn't supported, I have to set the e-mail client 
(especially on the phone) to poll the server every x number of minutes.


You might want to consider giving IMAP a try, it might be more 
reliable than what you're experiencing with the POP service.






Why can I log into my Verizon and AOL email accounts on the web from the 
AOL site, but not Yahoo?


"On March 16, 2017, Verizon announced that it would discontinue the 
e-mail services provided for its internet subscribers, and migrate them 
to AOL Mail.[134]"


REF: 
 


Yes, they migrated the Verizon mail over to AOL Mail. Then when Verizon 
bought Yahoo afterwards, everything moved over to Yahoo.


When AOL Mail was independent under AOL, IMAP PUSH worked perfectly.

As to why you can login via AOL but not Yahoo, my first guess would be 
that AOL and Yahoo have separate authentication servers on the web side.

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Re: constipated email continues

2020-08-15 Thread WaltS48

On 8/15/20 11:16 AM, Edward wrote:

WaltS48 wrote:

On 8/15/20 10:28 AM, Edward wrote:

David H. Durgee wrote:


The POP3 mail server (pop.verizon.net) does not support UIDL or XTND
XLST, which are required to implement the ``Leave on Server'', 
``Maximum
Message Size'' or ``Fetch Headers Only'' options. To download your 
mail,

turn off these options in the Server Settings for your mail server in
the Account Settings window.


Verizon's e-mail, as well as AOL's, are now hosted at Yahoo.

In order to retrieve IMAP mail from them within reasonable duration 
since IMAP PUSH isn't supported, I have to set the e-mail client 
(especially on the phone) to poll the server every x number of minutes.


You might want to consider giving IMAP a try, it might be more 
reliable than what you're experiencing with the POP service.






Why can I log into my Verizon and AOL email accounts on the web from 
the AOL site, but not Yahoo?


"On March 16, 2017, Verizon announced that it would discontinue the 
e-mail services provided for its internet subscribers, and migrate 
them to AOL Mail.[134]"


REF: 
 



Yes, they migrated the Verizon mail over to AOL Mail. Then when Verizon 
bought Yahoo afterwards, everything moved over to Yahoo.


When AOL Mail was independent under AOL, IMAP PUSH worked perfectly.

As to why you can login via AOL but not Yahoo, my first guess would be 
that AOL and Yahoo have separate authentication servers on the web side.


Can you provide a citation of this move?

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Re: constipated email continues

2020-08-15 Thread WaltS48

On 8/15/20 10:28 AM, Edward wrote:

David H. Durgee wrote:


The POP3 mail server (pop.verizon.net) does not support UIDL or XTND
XLST, which are required to implement the ``Leave on Server'', ``Maximum
Message Size'' or ``Fetch Headers Only'' options. To download your mail,
turn off these options in the Server Settings for your mail server in
the Account Settings window.


Verizon's e-mail, as well as AOL's, are now hosted at Yahoo.

In order to retrieve IMAP mail from them within reasonable duration 
since IMAP PUSH isn't supported, I have to set the e-mail client 
(especially on the phone) to poll the server every x number of minutes.


You might want to consider giving IMAP a try, it might be more reliable 
than what you're experiencing with the POP service.






Why can I log into my Verizon and AOL email accounts on the web from the 
AOL site, but not Yahoo?


"On March 16, 2017, Verizon announced that it would discontinue the 
e-mail services provided for its internet subscribers, and migrate them 
to AOL Mail.[134]"


REF: 



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Re: Eyeball icon on _SOME_ USENET threads that I've replied to.

2020-08-15 Thread Edward

Richard Owlett wrote:

On 08/15/2020 09:21 AM, Edward wrote:



Maybe it's an indicator that the thread is being 'watched'?



I've had the symptom come and go without apparent cause.
If the "eyeball" appears I can turn it off with
    Message->Watch Thread


Thank you. I have now seen the eyeball icon.  :-)

It doesn't sound like it's something that would /automatically/ appear. 
I looked for a preference that would automatically flag a thread as 
watched if a reply is posted to it, but didn't see one.




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Re: Eyeball icon on _SOME_ USENET threads that I've replied to.

2020-08-15 Thread Richard Owlett

On 08/15/2020 09:21 AM, Edward wrote:

Richard Owlett wrote:

I am using
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/52.0 
SeaMonkey/2.49.4

Build identifier: 20180711182954

Some, *NOT ALL*, USENET threads that I've contributed to have an 
"eyeball icon" in the leftmost column of pane containing subject titles.



WHY?   

TIA


I found a bug report from 19 years ago on unignored threads, including 
duplicate reports which specifically mentioned the eyeball icon, with 
the original bug report closed as resolved-fixed.


In all the years I've used Netscape, Mozilla Suite and now SeaMonkey, 
I've never seen this eyeball icon...


Maybe it's an indicator that the thread is being 'watched'?



I've had the symptom come and go without apparent cause.
If the "eyeball" appears I can turn it off with
   Message->Watch Thread



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Re: constipated email continues

2020-08-15 Thread Edward

David H. Durgee wrote:


The POP3 mail server (pop.verizon.net) does not support UIDL or XTND
XLST, which are required to implement the ``Leave on Server'', ``Maximum
Message Size'' or ``Fetch Headers Only'' options. To download your mail,
turn off these options in the Server Settings for your mail server in
the Account Settings window.


Verizon's e-mail, as well as AOL's, are now hosted at Yahoo.

In order to retrieve IMAP mail from them within reasonable duration 
since IMAP PUSH isn't supported, I have to set the e-mail client 
(especially on the phone) to poll the server every x number of minutes.


You might want to consider giving IMAP a try, it might be more reliable 
than what you're experiencing with the POP service.




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Re: Eyeball icon on _SOME_ USENET threads that I've replied to.

2020-08-15 Thread Edward

Richard Owlett wrote:

I am using
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/52.0 
SeaMonkey/2.49.4

Build identifier: 20180711182954

Some, *NOT ALL*, USENET threads that I've contributed to have an 
"eyeball icon" in the leftmost column of pane containing subject titles.



WHY?   

TIA


I found a bug report from 19 years ago on unignored threads, including 
duplicate reports which specifically mentioned the eyeball icon, with 
the original bug report closed as resolved-fixed.


In all the years I've used Netscape, Mozilla Suite and now SeaMonkey, 
I've never seen this eyeball icon...


Maybe it's an indicator that the thread is being 'watched'?

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WHY?????????? -- Re: Good bye SeaMonkey Browser

2020-08-15 Thread Richard Owlett

On 08/14/2020 07:27 PM, Lance Courtland wrote:

It is with much sadness that I must abandon SeaMonkey ...


I use SeaMonkey 2.49 under Debian with *NO* problems _whatsoever_.
I started with Netscape Communicator under whatever flavor of Widoze was 
current back in the day.

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Re: Good bye SeaMonkey Browser

2020-08-15 Thread Edward

Lance Courtland wrote:
It is with much sadness that I must abandon SeaMonkey as a web browser. 
I have been a loyal user since Mosaic in 1993, then Netscape Navigator, 
then SM.  However, I have become overwhelmed by the quantity and 
complexity of fixes, tweaks, configs, spoofs, and kluges, each 
constantly needing updating, to get SM to fully function on a wide 
variety of URLs at a rapid speed.


Where once its customizability was a bonus, it is now a burden.  SM 
seems to have been brought down by the difference between "you can do 
all this to make it work however you want" and "you have to do all this 
to make it work at all."


I certainly appreciate all the hard work a dwindling number of 
developers have put in to keep SM alive.


I will continue to use the Mail & Newsgroup functions, which I like a 
lot.  I have managed to make email links clicked in SM Email open in 
Chrome, which is now my default.  I have always resisted adopting the 
most current offering from the Macrofirms of the digital world, but it 
has become too burdensome to continue being a browser salmon.


Parting is such sweet sorrow.

Lance


Please don't give up on SeaMonkey. I've been with this since the 
Netscape days. When I 'graduated' from Commodore 64 to Windows 95, a 
good 23 years ago, the first software I downloaded on Windows (although 
on 56K dial-up back then), was Netscape Communicator. Stayed with that 
as well as with the Mozilla Suite - which eventually became SeaMonkey.


All because, I like using a suite.

Aside from adding Extensions/Add-Ons and Themes, I'm not aware myself of 
any other customization available for SeaMonkey.


I run Fedora Linux today and use the Fedora-supplied SeaMonkey package.

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Eyeball icon on _SOME_ USENET threads that I've replied to.

2020-08-15 Thread Richard Owlett

I am using
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/52.0 
SeaMonkey/2.49.4

Build identifier: 20180711182954

Some, *NOT ALL*, USENET threads that I've contributed to have an 
"eyeball icon" in the leftmost column of pane containing subject titles.



WHY?   

TIA

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Re: Good bye SeaMonkey Browser

2020-08-15 Thread Nuno Silva
On 2020-08-15, Lance Courtland wrote:

> Ken Rudolph wrote:
>> Lance Courtland wrote:
>>> Ken Rudolph wrote:
 Lance Courtland wrote:

> I will continue to use the Mail & Newsgroup functions, which I
> like a lot.  I have managed to make email links clicked in SM
> Email open in Chrome, which is now my default. 

 Could you specify how you managed this feat?  I would like to have
 links open in the Firefox browser.  However Chrome would work,
 too.  I just don't know how to redirect the browser when I click
 on the link. Thanks.

>>> Ken,
>>>
>>> Try this.  I'm using Windows 10, SM 2.53.3
>>>
>>> 1. Make Firefox your default browser, from Firefox and in Windows
>>> default programs.  Reboot computer.
>>> 2. In SM check Edit/Preferences/Browser, Default browser.  Make
>>> sure SM is not your default browser.
>>> 3.In SM browser, go to about:config.  Search for
>>> network.protocol-handler.external.http.  If it exists, set it to
>>> false. If it doesn't exist, create it as a boolean and set it to
>>> false.
>>> 4. Do the same as step 3 for network.protocol-handler.external.https.
>>> 5. Still in about:config, search for
>>> network.protocol-handler.warn-external.mailto and set it to
>>> false. If it doesn't exist, create it as a boolean and set it to
>>> false.
>>> 6. Close SM and reboot computer.
>>
>> *sigh*.  Neither *.http or *.https exists in my config file.  I
>> suppose I could figure out how to create them as a boolean since
>> years ago I did futz around with the config file per a suggestion on
>> this newsgroup. However, nowadays my computer savvy is not as
>> effective as it once was; so I'll just have to continue with my
>> practice of copying and pasting the links into Firefox by hand.
>>
>> Anyway, congratulation to you for succeeding and thanks for the hint!
>>
> Ken,
>
> Don't give up just yet.  Here's how to create a new config preference.
> 1. In SM browser, put about:config in address bar, hit enter
> 2. Right click anywhere in list of preferences
> 3. Select New, then Boolean
> 4. Enter preference name, i.e. network.protocol-handler.external.http,
> then click OK
> 5. In the popup window "Enter boolean value", select false, click OK.
> 6. Repeat steps 2-5 until all preferences entered.
> 7. Reboot.

I think it might be "expose", not "external", see [1].

Here I was able to open http(s) links (from inside Mail&News) using an
external browser after creating network.protocol-handler.expose.http and
network.protocol-handler.expose.https, both as booleans set to false.

(After this, if I try to open such a link, SeaMonkey asks me to choose a
helper application to open it with, and I can set it to "Remember my
choice".)


[1] http://kb.mozillazine.org/Register_protocol#Firefox_3.5_and_above
(compared with the "[...] up to 3.0" subsection which follows)
(This is all inside the "Linux" section, but seems to work in
Windows as well.)

-- 
Nuno Silva
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