Re: Why do incremental updates not define their purpose ?

[Philip TAYLOR]

Jens Hatlak wrote:


Just look at the Changes page. It's all there. Whether it's
listed on the front page or a page directly linked from there is
pointless nit-picking.


I am sorry, Jens, it is not "pointless nit-picking" at all.
It isn't even nit-picking, pointless or otherwise.  The
release notes use the English language, and therefore
one is entitled to assume that the normal interpretation
of the prose on the page will tell the reader what to
expect.  So what does the page tell us ?


What's New in SeaMonkey 2.7.2

SeaMonkey 2.7.2 contains the following major changes relative to SeaMonkey 2.6:


The second line contradicts the first.  This is /not/ what is 
new in Seamonkey 2.7.2, it is what is new in 2.7++



The changes page lists a more detailed overview of new features and fixes 
relative to our last stable release,


But you tell me that the changes page lists a more detailed 
overview of new features and fixes relative to V2.7.1.  Again,

a flagrant contradiction between the prose and its actual
meaning.

Philip Taylor

___
support-seamonkey mailing list
support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey

Re: Why do incremental updates not define their purpose ?

[Jens Hatlak]

Philip TAYLOR wrote:

 And even if they are "just" security updates, they
can still introduce new, unexpected, unwanted behaviour,
and a user is surely entitled to be told the nature of
the update and the potential implications ?


Just look at the Changes page. It's all there. Whether it's listed on 
the front page or a page directly linked from there is pointless 
nit-picking.


Greetings,

Jens

--
Jens Hatlak 
SeaMonkey Trunk Tracker 
___
support-seamonkey mailing list
support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey

Re: Why do incremental updates not define their purpose ?

[Philip TAYLOR]

Jay Garcia wrote:


Yes, "Justin" as I replied in my "correction" post.


My "Justin ?" was me, asking Justin, as you suggested.


If there are only security updates from incremental to incremental
versions then there   S H O U L D   be no unexpected and unwanted behaviors, 
yes?


S H O U L D.  My emphasis.


"Justin" will be along to explain more in detail.


Excellent.

Philip Taylor
___
support-seamonkey mailing list
support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey

Re: Why do incremental updates not define their purpose ?

[Jay Garcia]

On 21.02.2012 08:16, Philip TAYLOR wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> 
> 
> Jay Garcia wrote:
> 
>> Ask Jason Wood, it's his ballgame. But just keep in mind that 3rd digit
>> updates are usually security updates.
> 
> Justin ?  And even if they are "just" security updates, they
> can still introduce new, unexpected, unwanted behaviour,
> and a user is surely entitled to be told the nature of
> the update and the potential implications ?
> 
> Philip Taylor

Yes, "Justin" as I replied in my "correction" post.

If there are only security updates from incremental to incremental
versions then there should be no unexpected and unwanted behaviors, yes?
"Justin" will be along to explain more in detail.

-- 
Jay Garcia - www.ufaq.org - Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Thunderbird
Mozilla Contribute Coordinator Team - www.mozilla.org/contribute/
Mozilla Mozillian Member - www.mozillians.org
Mozilla Contributor Member - www.mozilla.org/credits/
___
support-seamonkey mailing list
support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey

Re: Why do incremental updates not define their purpose ?

[Philip TAYLOR]

Jay Garcia wrote:


Ask Jason Wood, it's his ballgame. But just keep in mind that 3rd digit
updates are usually security updates.


Justin ?  And even if they are "just" security updates, they
can still introduce new, unexpected, unwanted behaviour,
and a user is surely entitled to be told the nature of
the update and the potential implications ?

Philip Taylor
___
support-seamonkey mailing list
support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey

Re: Why do incremental updates not define their purpose ?

[Jay Garcia]

On 21.02.2012 07:46, Philip TAYLOR wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> 
> 
> Jay Garcia wrote:
> 
>> The reason is that people may update to 2.7.2 directly from 2.6.1, and
>> all our release notes/etc. apply to 2.7.2 just as they did to 2.7, so we
>> try to not duplicate the workload.
> 
> But how is a user, experiencing a problem for the first time, to know
> whether that problem is likely to emanate from an
> incremental update, if he/she is told only what changes
> there are from a previous major release, not from the
> previous incremental release ?

Ask Jason Wood, it's his ballgame. But just keep in mind that 3rd digit
updates are usually security updates.

-- 
Jay Garcia - www.ufaq.org - Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Thunderbird
Mozilla Contribute Coordinator Team - www.mozilla.org/contribute/
Mozilla Mozillian Member - www.mozillians.org
Mozilla Contributor Member - www.mozilla.org/credits/
___
support-seamonkey mailing list
support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey

Re: Why do incremental updates not define their purpose ? CORRECTION

[Jay Garcia]

Justin Wood, not Jason. :-(

-- 
Jay Garcia - www.ufaq.org - Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Thunderbird
Mozilla Contribute Coordinator Team - www.mozilla.org/contribute/
Mozilla Mozillian Member - www.mozillians.org
Mozilla Contributor Member - www.mozilla.org/credits/
___
support-seamonkey mailing list
support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey

Re: Why do incremental updates not define their purpose ?

[Philip TAYLOR]

Jay Garcia wrote:


The reason is that people may update to 2.7.2 directly from 2.6.1, and
all our release notes/etc. apply to 2.7.2 just as they did to 2.7, so we
try to not duplicate the workload.


But how is a user, experiencing a problem for the first time, to 
know whether that problem is likely to emanate from an

incremental update, if he/she is told only what changes
there are from a previous major release, not from the
previous incremental release ?

It seems to me that the Release Notes for 2.7.2 (et seq)
should read along the following lines :


What's New in SeaMonkey 2.7.2

SeaMonkey 2.7.2 contains the following changes relative to SeaMonkey 2.7.1 :
SeaMonkey-specific changes



Mozilla platform changes



The changes page lists a more detailed overview of new features and fixes 
relative to our last stable release, SeaMonkey 2.6. Relevant security fixes are 
listed on Security Advisories for SeaMonkey.


Otherwise the "changes page" referred to in the immediately
preceding line is completely redundant, since both the
inline summary and the changes page refer to differences
w.r.t. 2.6

Philip Taylo
___
support-seamonkey mailing list
support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey

Re: Why do incremental updates not define their purpose ?

[Jay Garcia]

On 21.02.2012 04:13, Daniel wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> WLS wrote:
>> On 02/20/2012 08:36 AM, Philip TAYLOR wrote:
>>> If I read the release notes for Seamonkey 2.7.2, I am told :
>>>
 What's New in SeaMonkey 2.7.2

 SeaMonkey 2.7.2 contains the following major changes relative
 to SeaMonkey 2.6:
>>>
>>> But I knew this already, from the release notes for
>>> Seamonkey 2.7.  Why do the release notes for incremental
>>> release not tell me what the differences are between
>>> this release and the immediately preceding one (e.g.,
>>> in the case of Seamonkey 2.7.2, the differences
>>> between it and Seamonkey 2.7.1) ?
>>>
>>> Philip Taylor
>>
>> Going to the release notes page for SeaMonkey 2.7.2
>>
>> http://www.seamonkey-project.org/releases/seamonkey2.7/
>>
>> then clicking on the link in the "What's New in SeaMonkey 2.7.2" section
>> takes me to a "What's New in SeaMonkey 2.6.1" page.
>>
>> I think this is most likely due to the 2 or 3 volunteer developers, not
>> having time to update release notes. So, I guess the question is do they
>> update release notes first, or push out the security fix first.
>>
>> Anyway this is the difference.
>>
>> https://www.mozilla.org/security/announce/2012/mfsa2012-11.html
>>
>> Wonder if Mozilla is going to update this page?
>>
>> https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/releases/
> 
> Going to the release notes page for SeaMonkey 2.7.2
> 
> http://www.seamonkey-project.org/releases/seamonkey2.7/
> 
> then clicking on the link in the "What's New in SeaMonkey 2.7.2" section
> takes me to a "What's New in SeaMonkey 2.7.2" section on that page which
> then has two sub=para's, SeaMonkey-specific changes and Mozilla platform
> changes.
> 
> Maybe the SeaMonkey Committee have fixed the linking now!!
> 

Up the thread a bit, Jason Wood explained:

>Can also find it in
 which
is linked from the release notes page.

The reason is that people may update to 2.7.2 directly from 2.6.1, and
all our release notes/etc. apply to 2.7.2 just as they did to 2.7, so we
try to not duplicate the workload.


-- 
Jay Garcia - www.ufaq.org - Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Thunderbird
Mozilla Contribute Coordinator Team - www.mozilla.org/contribute/
Mozilla Mozillian Member - www.mozillians.org
Mozilla Contributor Member - www.mozilla.org/credits/
___
support-seamonkey mailing list
support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey

Re: Why do incremental updates not define their purpose ?

[Daniel]

WLS wrote:

On 02/20/2012 08:36 AM, Philip TAYLOR wrote:

If I read the release notes for Seamonkey 2.7.2, I am told :


What's New in SeaMonkey 2.7.2

SeaMonkey 2.7.2 contains the following major changes relative
to SeaMonkey 2.6:


But I knew this already, from the release notes for
Seamonkey 2.7.  Why do the release notes for incremental
release not tell me what the differences are between
this release and the immediately preceding one (e.g.,
in the case of Seamonkey 2.7.2, the differences
between it and Seamonkey 2.7.1) ?

Philip Taylor


Going to the release notes page for SeaMonkey 2.7.2

http://www.seamonkey-project.org/releases/seamonkey2.7/

then clicking on the link in the "What's New in SeaMonkey 2.7.2" section
takes me to a "What's New in SeaMonkey 2.6.1" page.

I think this is most likely due to the 2 or 3 volunteer developers, not
having time to update release notes. So, I guess the question is do they
update release notes first, or push out the security fix first.

Anyway this is the difference.

https://www.mozilla.org/security/announce/2012/mfsa2012-11.html

Wonder if Mozilla is going to update this page?

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/releases/


Going to the release notes page for SeaMonkey 2.7.2

http://www.seamonkey-project.org/releases/seamonkey2.7/

then clicking on the link in the "What's New in SeaMonkey 2.7.2" section
takes me to a "What's New in SeaMonkey 2.7.2" section on that page which 
then has two sub=para's, SeaMonkey-specific changes and Mozilla platform 
changes.


Maybe the SeaMonkey Committee have fixed the linking now!!

--
Daniel
___
support-seamonkey mailing list
support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey

Re: Why do incremental updates not define their purpose ?

[Justin Wood (Callek)]

WLS wrote:

On 02/20/2012 08:36 AM, Philip TAYLOR wrote:

If I read the release notes for Seamonkey 2.7.2, I am told :


What's New in SeaMonkey 2.7.2

SeaMonkey 2.7.2 contains the following major changes relative
to SeaMonkey 2.6:


But I knew this already, from the release notes for
Seamonkey 2.7.  Why do the release notes for incremental
release not tell me what the differences are between
this release and the immediately preceding one (e.g.,
in the case of Seamonkey 2.7.2, the differences
between it and Seamonkey 2.7.1) ?

Philip Taylor


Going to the release notes page for SeaMonkey 2.7.2

http://www.seamonkey-project.org/releases/seamonkey2.7/

then clicking on the link in the "What's New in SeaMonkey 2.7.2" section
takes me to a "What's New in SeaMonkey 2.6.1" page.

I think this is most likely due to the 2 or 3 volunteer developers, not
having time to update release notes. So, I guess the question is do they
update release notes first, or push out the security fix first.

Anyway this is the difference.

https://www.mozilla.org/security/announce/2012/mfsa2012-11.html

Wonder if Mozilla is going to update this page?

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/releases/


Can also find it in 
http://www.seamonkey-project.org/releases/seamonkey2.7/changes which is 
linked from the release notes page.


The reason is that people may update to 2.7.2 directly from 2.6.1, and 
all our release notes/etc. apply to 2.7.2 just as they did to 2.7, so we 
try to not duplicate the workload.


--
~Justin Wood (Callek)
___
support-seamonkey mailing list
support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey

Re: Why do incremental updates not define their purpose ?

[WLS]

On 02/20/2012 08:36 AM, Philip TAYLOR wrote:
> If I read the release notes for Seamonkey 2.7.2, I am told :
> 
>> What's New in SeaMonkey 2.7.2
>>
>> SeaMonkey 2.7.2 contains the following major changes relative
>> to SeaMonkey 2.6:
> 
> But I knew this already, from the release notes for
> Seamonkey 2.7.  Why do the release notes for incremental
> release not tell me what the differences are between
> this release and the immediately preceding one (e.g.,
> in the case of Seamonkey 2.7.2, the differences
> between it and Seamonkey 2.7.1) ?
> 
> Philip Taylor

Going to the release notes page for SeaMonkey 2.7.2

http://www.seamonkey-project.org/releases/seamonkey2.7/

then clicking on the link in the "What's New in SeaMonkey 2.7.2" section
takes me to a "What's New in SeaMonkey 2.6.1" page.

I think this is most likely due to the 2 or 3 volunteer developers, not
having time to update release notes. So, I guess the question is do they
update release notes first, or push out the security fix first.

Anyway this is the difference.

https://www.mozilla.org/security/announce/2012/mfsa2012-11.html

Wonder if Mozilla is going to update this page?

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/releases/
-- 
Thunderbird Daily | openSUSE 11.4 Linux
Get openSUSE: http://software.opensuse.org/121/en
___
support-seamonkey mailing list
support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey

Why do incremental updates not define their purpose ?

[Philip TAYLOR]

If I read the release notes for Seamonkey 2.7.2, I am told :


What's New in SeaMonkey 2.7.2

SeaMonkey 2.7.2 contains the following major changes relative
to SeaMonkey 2.6:


But I knew this already, from the release notes for
Seamonkey 2.7.  Why do the release notes for incremental
release not tell me what the differences are between
this release and the immediately preceding one (e.g.,
in the case of Seamonkey 2.7.2, the differences
between it and Seamonkey 2.7.1) ?

Philip Taylor
___
support-seamonkey mailing list
support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey