Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0
Icant test 64tk soundflower but I use 16 tk version ie 1.5.2 ish - because Protools wont use the 64tk You could try going back uninstall and install older version but I dont get firefox working with test file Its fine on chrome in 10.8 and 10.6 mick On 20 Jul 2014, at 19:12, Ralf R Radermacher wrote: Am 19.07.14 18:47, schrieb m...@superorg.com: Easy to record stream on a Mac Install Cycling74's Soundflower its free and doesnt interfere with anything I've spent the afternoon trying various things and Chrome doesn't output any sound through the 64-channel version. 2-channels works. With Firefox, both the 2- and 64-channel versions work fine, but not 64 from Chrome. Can anyone confirm this from his system? Setup here is the latest Mac Mini running under 10.8 with 16 GB of RAM. Ralf -- Ralf R. Radermacher - Köln/Cologne, Germany Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf Web : http://www.fotoralf.de ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0
Thanks everyone for the feedback and if you get the experiment to work for you please feel free to comment via the blog. http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radio3/posts/BBC-Proms-in-Surround-Sound To provide a bit more detail to the biggest concern within this group, which seems to be around universality. When the BBC first started F.M. transmissions most people couldn't receive them and it took about 20 years for the majority of listening to move from A.M. Does this mean we were wrong to spend license payers money on F.M.? Yes, it is frustrating that the adoption of HTML5 and the Audio API Media Source Extension within it has been very slow and so far only Chrome and IE11 fully support it. It's also frustrating that the combination of Chrome and Apple seems to make the audio come from the wrong speakers so people have to replug. But it's only through content creators making content available using these standards that the browser makers will be persuaded to implement them. I would love to be able to offer surround sound radio over the TV but I would need to pay for the correct data feeds to be created to get the content into the EPG, without which nobody would find the content. I would need to pay Red Bee to add the data to the EPG, I would need to pay somebody to get 4 channels of full bandwidth uncompressed audio synchronously from the Royal Albert Hall to our two coding and multiplexing centres, I would need to pay Atos to provide additional capability at those centres to code an audio only surround sound service and add it to the multiplex and I would need to take bandwidth away from other services to make space for my new service. With the Commonwealth Games about to begin, I'm not going to get that bandwidth. And even if I could do all that, there's no guarantee it would work - from informal conversations with manufacturers I don't think TVs cope with audio only surround sound services. Of course most TVs now are Smart TVs with an IP connection and a web browser. Given that most people who have a surround sound system have it connected to their TV I think it's important that I find a way to deliver surround sound radio to the TV and as I can't do it through the broadcast channels, the browser is the best bet. Of course the browsers in TVs, set top boxes and blue-ray players don't yet support HTML5 etc etc yet, but it's only a matter of time. The beauty of this approach is that once these standards are adopted within consumer products you will just need to click play on a web page on your TV to enjoy the service. Some people have commented that we should make a normal surround sound stream available but I'm not at all sure what they mean by this. For live streaming you need a codec and a transport layer. Our normal transport layers Flash and Shoutcast. Flash won't support more than stereo, Shoutcast can but support for this is very limited. MPEG-DASH, on the other hand, is rapidly becoming the standard way to transport streaming media over IP with more and more companies supporting it. If anybody would like to set up a demonstration of live streaming of surround content which will play natively in a browser using different technologies then please let me know. I'm not using MPEG-DASH to be difficult, I'm using it because we have figured out how to make it carry good quality surround sound reliably and play in the browser without third party plug-ins, and because it is an agreed standard which is widely supported. If any of you have a better way of doing that please share it! -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140721/94574418/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0
Rupert Brun wrote: Some people have commented that we should make a normal surround sound stream available but I'm not at all sure what they mean by this. For live streaming you need a codec and a transport layer. Our normal transport layers Flash and Shoutcast. Flash won't support more than stereo, Shoutcast can but support for this is very limited. MPEG-DASH, on the other hand, is rapidly becoming the standard way to transport streaming media over IP with more and more companies supporting it. I've not got anything against DASH, though I do find the analogy with FM a bit weak given the amount of time content was available on both AM and FM. So what is a normal stream -I doubt I am that exceptional as a Linux user in not using browser/flash to access BBC content. Take for example the R3 HD stream - I see nothing exclusively to do with browser/flash/Shoutcast. .pls is widely supported so all I would do is - mplayer -playlist http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/listen/live/r3_aaclca.pls I could even download r3_aaclca.pls with wget look in it and download with wget using the long http:// url. Happily the stream is aac in adts over http many many players across all OSes will be able to play it. If it were 4 channel aac/adts then the decoder would see it as such. If anybody would like to set up a demonstration of live streaming of surround content which will play natively in a browser using different technologies then please let me know. I'm not using MPEG-DASH to be difficult, I'm using it because we have figured out how to make it carry good quality surround sound reliably and play in the browser without third party plug-ins, and because it is an agreed standard which is widely supported. If any of you have a better way of doing that please share it! I don't via browser - DASH is fine for your objectives, but I hope you see what I mean by normal stream - You could provide one - just via a link somewhere - the browser/flash requirement/restriction is your arbitary choice. I accept that that's the way things currently are but this is a trial, and not using flash is the point, so there's no harm if you wanted in providing a real link to a normal http stream just like R3 HD. As it's a trial that requires people to have their computer plumbed into a surround system I don't think you can argue that they would be incapable of directly using a player capable of surround output - I would speculate that they already have one and know how to use it. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0
the browser/flash requirement/restriction is your arbitary choice. I doubt I am that exceptional as a Linux user in not using browser/flash to access BBC content. I could even download r3_aaclca.pls with wget look in it and download with wget using the long http:// url. I think we are getting to the nub of the issue. Wanting something to play in the browser isn't my arbitrary choice, it's how normal people consume media and I need to test something which will eventually work for normal people. As where many of the members of this group (and I mean this in the nicest way and include myself) are not normal - we like to experiment, we use Linux, we access the streams in ways the broadcasters don't intend us to, we write code. This experiment isn't for people like us - it is to test something which will one day allow normal people to access surround sound through the web browser. That's what the experiment is about - testing MPEG Dash surround through a browser, because that's a strategic solution which I believe will become mainstream. It's also about testing the production challenges of one person creating a surround sound balance and a stereo balance of a live classical music concert at the same time, because I can't afford to have 2 sound balancers and I don't like the results from automated upmixing or downmixing. And finally, and perhaps most importantly, it's about finding out what works aesthetically and what doesn't when using surround sound from a live classi cal concert. Of course one could devise an experiment which would deliver surround sound to people who want to use Linux and wget but that would be a different experiment which I am very happy to leave to others to try. Rupert ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0
Rupert Brun wrote: the browser/flash requirement/restriction is your arbitary choice. I doubt I am that exceptional as a Linux user in not using browser/flash to access BBC content. I could even download r3_aaclca.pls with wget look in it and download with wget using the long http:// url. I think we are getting to the nub of the issue. Wanting something to play in the browser isn't my arbitrary choice, it's how normal people consume media and I need to test something which will eventually work for normal people. As where many of the members of this group (and I mean this in the nicest way and include myself) are not normal - we like to experiment, we use Linux, we access the streams in ways the broadcasters don't intend us to, we write code. This experiment isn't for people like us - it is to test something which will one day allow normal people to access surround sound through the web browser. That's what the experiment is about - testing MPEG Dash surround through a browser, because that's a strategic solution which I believe will become mainstream. It's also about testing the production challenges of one person creating a surround sound balance and a stereo balance of a live classical music concert at the same time, because I can't afford to have 2 sound balancers and I don't like the results from automated upmixing or downmixing. And finally, and perhaps most importantly, it's about finding out what works aesthetically and what doesn't when using surround sound from a live classi cal concert. Fair enough, I can't disagree with any of that. Of course one could devise an experiment which would deliver surround sound to people who want to use Linux and wget but that would be a different experiment which I am very happy to leave to others to try. Just to be clear, as I didn't reiterate in my last post, though I did say previously - I understand this is a DASH/Browser test. I am not suggesting there should be some sort of different experiment, indeed it's nothing new - just the same as the existing R3 HD stream. My concern was that the content for the trial is unique and currently not available to all. The .pls type stream could have been in addition to the trial stream not instead of it and purely to allow access for those who didn't want to install a new closed browser/OS just to get it. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
[Sursound] [slightly OT] Positional audio for stereo conferencing
My scope of interests spans both surround sound and IP telephony. It seems that there is finally starting to be some convergence between these spheres. For example, several companies have recently launched 3D audio conferencing services for business. Dolby Voice is offered by BT Conferencing. Voxeet offers a purely software based approach. Of course, these are not actually 3D audio as they proclaim. They lack any conception of height, making them at best some sort of planar surround. It may be most appropriate to refer to them as binaural conferencing. Freeswitch is one of the leading open source telecom switching projects. They recently launched a project they call Verto. It's a binaural conferencing engine that build upon prior implementation of WebRTC and the Opus audio codec. You can reach it by pointing the Chrome web browser at https://webrtc.freeswitch.org/ I was on one of the very first public calls where Verto was used. Some participants were connected via the web. Those people participated in stereo, hearing the various participants arrayed around their sound stage. Those people generally liked what they heard. There were no technical issues with the sound. Others connected using more traditional mono end-points, including hardware IP phones, cell phones, or soft phones on computers. These people often didn't like what they heard. For them the mono sum of the stereo soundstage was a jumble, most typically with poor control of levels. I joined by way of a Polycom VVX-600, which is a high-quality, albeit mono, IP phone. I was connected over G.722.1C, so I had a 14 KHz usable audio path. To my ear some participants sounded a lot lower in volume and also with the high frequencies dramatically rolled off. It sounded a lot like problematic use of an old vocal eliminator tool. I am not a software developer, nor was I prepared to question the dev team on the call about the specifics of their spatial manipulations. Given unsatisfactory results for many, on that first call they simply disabled the spatial trickery so that the call could continue in a productive manner. However, I thought that I might ask this group if Ambisonics, in one fashion or another, would be helpful in allowing such a project to preserve a coherent mono down-mix for those participants to join a call using traditional means? The alternative may be to hold separate, parallel conferences; mono binaural. This would be transparent to the end-users, but may be more resource intensive fort the host hardware. Perhaps also more difficult to manage. Michael Graves -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140721/89ddd22a/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
