Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF? (Joseph Anderson)

[umashankar manthravadi]

dear sampo

you are right. it was clumsily made. but i think the idea works.

umashankar

From: Sursound  on behalf of Sampo Syreeni 

Sent: Friday, December 30, 2022 8:49 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group 
Subject: Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF? (Joseph Anderson)

On 2022-12-30, umashankar manthravadi wrote:

> a few years ago i tried to solve these problems by building an eight
> loudspeaker (1" speakers) cage to rest on my shoulders. The array
> moves with the body, but not with the head. The aim was to get rid of
> HRTF and head tracking.

Somehow I seem to get it didn't work too well in the end. Maybe a more
compact and more intelligent setup would be warranted instead?
--
Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - de...@iki.fi, 
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Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF? (Joseph Anderson)

[umashankar manthravadi]

dear sampo

a few years ago i tried to solve these problems by building an eight 
loudspeaker (1" speakers) cage to rest on my shoulders. The array moves with 
the body, but not with the head. The aim was to get rid of HRTF and head 
tracking.

umashankar

From: Sursound  on behalf of Sampo Syreeni 

Sent: Friday, December 30, 2022 8:08 AM
To: Surround Sound discussion group 
Subject: Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF? (Joseph Anderson)

On 2022-12-26, Bo-Erik Sandholm wrote:

> As a amateur I had a idea that I could use a CIPIC HRTF but I did not
> find an easy way to select one that had any chance to be a a good fit
> for me.

This has always been a problem with in-ear measurements and HRTF/HRIR
processing reliant on them. While in theory that's the ultimate way to
deliver binaural sound to our two ears, fitting the transfer functions
has always been a pain, and rarely doable right without going with
personalised ear molds and the like.


> In my naivity I hoped for at least skull diameter and som pictures of
> ear shape.

Not going to happen, because skull, upper torso shape, and e.g.
subcutaneous fat content in the face and upper torso areas influence the
near field reaching the ears quite a lot, especially at the lower
frequencies. Even the uneven cartilage development of the pinnae, and
the hairstyle worn, appear to heavily influence the field impinging on
your ear canals. So does clothing and apparel, as does instantaneous
posture.

So, at least to my amateur's eye (ear) it seems almost impossible to
average over all of those separate and temporally variable locational
cues so that we could somehow find a way to calibrate binaural in-ear
phones to work truly well. When headtracked, they sort of work, but even
then I know from a couple of tests they aren't perfect. The two friends
I have who've actually had their ear canals molded and have taken a
KEMAR-like test set on theirselves, aren't too impressed by the results.

So how about going about it a different way for a change? Would it be
possible to design a set of headphones which actually locally reproduced
a high order soundfield, for any set of pinnae to utilize? As they
naturally do? Kind of like do very high order ambisonics or WFS, but now
right besides the ear, and headtracked? I mean that ought to take the
HRTF modelling aspect fully out of the picture: the pinna would do what
it does for each, and then the upper torso reflections would also be
much easier to simulate numerically, since they are of lower order and
at lower frequency.
--
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[Sursound] i am here

[umashankar manthravadi]

yes. i also have umasha...@yahoo.com as an email address, and i check all three 
atleast once a day. but i am beginning to get old and sometimes take time to 
answer.

umashankar
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Re: [Sursound] HOA mic comparison

[umashankar manthravadi]

yes if they are doing that of course. i now have four first order variants - 
brahma in zoom, brahma studio with 14 mm capsules, brahma field 4 (also with 14 
mm capsules) and brahma studio 4x with 25 mm capsules. but brahma in zoom is 
still my favourite.

umashankar

From: Sursound  on behalf of Emanuele Costantini 

Sent: Sunday, October 9, 2022 3:11 PM
To: sursound@music.vt.edu 
Subject: Re: [Sursound] HOA mic comparison

I mentioned the availability of mine because in the original comparison,
there are few 1OA used.

Emanuele

On 03/10/2022 08:29, umashankar manthravadi wrote:
> i did think of that, but it is not high order.
>
> umashankar
> 
> From: Sursound  on behalf of Emanuele 
> Costantini 
> Sent: Sunday, October 2, 2022 11:42 AM
> To: sursound@music.vt.edu 
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] HOA mic comparison
>
> I have a Brahma-In-Zoom.
>
> Emanuele
>
> On 01/10/2022 14:08, Steven Boardman wrote:
>> Hi Umashankar
>>
>> We would of loved to include a Brahma mic too, but unfortunately no one had
>> one to hand.
>> I still have the test settings. So if you know of anyone of your customers
>> that would be willing to lend us one in London Uk, i will glady put it in
>> the shoot out..
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Steven
>>
>> On Sat, 1 Oct 2022, 13:02 umashankar manthravadi, 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> anyone looking at the Brahma mics ? there are several designs
>>>
>>> All made to order.
>>>
>>> umashankar
>>> 
>>> From: Sursound  on behalf of Jack Reynolds
>>> 
>>> Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2022 4:06 PM
>>> To: Surround Sound discussion group 
>>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] HOA mic comparison
>>>
>>> Myself and several colleagues have recently tested most of the ambisonic
>>> mics available at the moment.
>>>
>>> I intend to initially run a blind listening test soon comparing  fixed
>>> binaural renders, then we will subsequently publish all the the A-Formats
>>> and B-Formats for everyone to compare on their own systems.
>>>
>>> We included the ZM1 and EM32 as well as the Rode NTSF1, Sennheiser Ambeo,
>>> Soundfield ST350 and 450, H3VR, Reynolds A-Type 4, Coresound Tetramic,
>>> Coresound Octomic, Voyage Spatial Mic and Reynolds AType8. And a KU100 and
>>> Earthworks and DPA omnis as reference.
>>>
>>> Captured at Stephen Boardman’s Boardroom 36 speaker studio
>>>
>>> Jack
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On 1 Oct 2022, at 10:55, Gabriel Wolf  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi all!
>>>>
>>>> had anyone the opportunity to compare the em32 with the ZM-1? Is
>>> mhacoustics still facturing? Wrote them an email and got no response... ;-)
>>>> Best from Berlin,
>>>> Gabriel Wolf
>>>>
>>>> -- next part --
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>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu
>>>>
>>> https://nam12.safeli

Re: [Sursound] HOA mic comparison

[umashankar manthravadi]

i did think of that, but it is not high order.

umashankar

From: Sursound  on behalf of Emanuele Costantini 

Sent: Sunday, October 2, 2022 11:42 AM
To: sursound@music.vt.edu 
Subject: Re: [Sursound] HOA mic comparison

I have a Brahma-In-Zoom.

Emanuele

On 01/10/2022 14:08, Steven Boardman wrote:
> Hi Umashankar
>
> We would of loved to include a Brahma mic too, but unfortunately no one had
> one to hand.
> I still have the test settings. So if you know of anyone of your customers
> that would be willing to lend us one in London Uk, i will glady put it in
> the shoot out..
>
> Best
>
> Steven
>
> On Sat, 1 Oct 2022, 13:02 umashankar manthravadi, 
> wrote:
>
>> anyone looking at the Brahma mics ? there are several designs
>>
>> All made to order.
>>
>> umashankar
>> 
>> From: Sursound  on behalf of Jack Reynolds
>> 
>> Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2022 4:06 PM
>> To: Surround Sound discussion group 
>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] HOA mic comparison
>>
>> Myself and several colleagues have recently tested most of the ambisonic
>> mics available at the moment.
>>
>> I intend to initially run a blind listening test soon comparing  fixed
>> binaural renders, then we will subsequently publish all the the A-Formats
>> and B-Formats for everyone to compare on their own systems.
>>
>> We included the ZM1 and EM32 as well as the Rode NTSF1, Sennheiser Ambeo,
>> Soundfield ST350 and 450, H3VR, Reynolds A-Type 4, Coresound Tetramic,
>> Coresound Octomic, Voyage Spatial Mic and Reynolds AType8. And a KU100 and
>> Earthworks and DPA omnis as reference.
>>
>> Captured at Stephen Boardman’s Boardroom 36 speaker studio
>>
>> Jack
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On 1 Oct 2022, at 10:55, Gabriel Wolf  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all!
>>>
>>> had anyone the opportunity to compare the em32 with the ZM-1? Is
>> mhacoustics still facturing? Wrote them an email and got no response... ;-)
>>> Best from Berlin,
>>> Gabriel Wolf
>>>
>>> -- next part --
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>> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail.music.vt.edu%2Fmailman%2Fprivate%2Fsursound%2Fattachments%2F20221001%2Fc1d4bca8%2Fattachment.key&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cbd86feb7fe26456b57cc08daa43d69a5%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638002880940253794%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=rYwloUwpnTjnTKOFMsnk4irVKARvXFewa9v2Jueawq4%3D&reserved=0
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Re: [Sursound] HOA mic comparison

[umashankar manthravadi]

just forwarded your address to felix duefel in Liepzig. He is usually quite 
prompt in replying.

umashankar

From: Sursound  on behalf of Steven Boardman 

Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2022 6:54 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group 
Subject: Re: [Sursound] HOA mic comparison

Awesome,
Just sent you an email with details.

Cheers

Steven
On Sat, 1 Oct 2022, 13:46 umashankar manthravadi, 
wrote:

> dear steve
>
> i know there is a second order Brahma microphone at WISP, Leipzig and they
> will be willing to send it to you. If you let me know and give me your
> shipping address, i will get in with them.
>
> umashankar
> __
>
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Re: [Sursound] HOA mic comparison

[umashankar manthravadi]

dear steve

i know there is a second order Brahma microphone at WISP, Leipzig and they will 
be willing to send it to you. If you let me know and give me your shipping 
address, i will get in with them.

umashankar

From: Sursound  on behalf of Steven Boardman 

Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2022 5:38 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group 
Subject: Re: [Sursound] HOA mic comparison

Hi Umashankar

We would of loved to include a Brahma mic too, but unfortunately no one had
one to hand.
I still have the test settings. So if you know of anyone of your customers
that would be willing to lend us one in London Uk, i will glady put it in
the shoot out..

Best

Steven

On Sat, 1 Oct 2022, 13:02 umashankar manthravadi, 
wrote:

> anyone looking at the Brahma mics ? there are several designs
>
> All made to order.
>
> umashankar
> 
> From: Sursound  on behalf of Jack Reynolds
> 
> Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2022 4:06 PM
> To: Surround Sound discussion group 
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] HOA mic comparison
>
> Myself and several colleagues have recently tested most of the ambisonic
> mics available at the moment.
>
> I intend to initially run a blind listening test soon comparing  fixed
> binaural renders, then we will subsequently publish all the the A-Formats
> and B-Formats for everyone to compare on their own systems.
>
> We included the ZM1 and EM32 as well as the Rode NTSF1, Sennheiser Ambeo,
> Soundfield ST350 and 450, H3VR, Reynolds A-Type 4, Coresound Tetramic,
> Coresound Octomic, Voyage Spatial Mic and Reynolds AType8. And a KU100 and
> Earthworks and DPA omnis as reference.
>
> Captured at Stephen Boardman’s Boardroom 36 speaker studio
>
> Jack
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On 1 Oct 2022, at 10:55, Gabriel Wolf  wrote:
> >
> > Hi all!
> >
> > had anyone the opportunity to compare the em32 with the ZM-1? Is
> mhacoustics still facturing? Wrote them an email and got no response... ;-)
> >
> > Best from Berlin,
> > Gabriel Wolf
> >
> > -- next part --
> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
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Re: [Sursound] HOA mic comparison

[umashankar manthravadi]

anyone looking at the Brahma mics ? there are several designs

All made to order.

umashankar

From: Sursound  on behalf of Jack Reynolds 

Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2022 4:06 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group 
Subject: Re: [Sursound] HOA mic comparison

Myself and several colleagues have recently tested most of the ambisonic mics 
available at the moment.

I intend to initially run a blind listening test soon comparing  fixed binaural 
renders, then we will subsequently publish all the the A-Formats and B-Formats 
for everyone to compare on their own systems.

We included the ZM1 and EM32 as well as the Rode NTSF1, Sennheiser Ambeo, 
Soundfield ST350 and 450, H3VR, Reynolds A-Type 4, Coresound Tetramic, 
Coresound Octomic, Voyage Spatial Mic and Reynolds AType8. And a KU100 and 
Earthworks and DPA omnis as reference.

Captured at Stephen Boardman’s Boardroom 36 speaker studio

Jack

Sent from my iPhone

> On 1 Oct 2022, at 10:55, Gabriel Wolf  wrote:
>
> Hi all!
>
> had anyone the opportunity to compare the em32 with the ZM-1? Is mhacoustics 
> still facturing? Wrote them an email and got no response... ;-)
>
> Best from Berlin,
> Gabriel Wolf
>
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Re: [Sursound] New venue for immersive audio in Leipzig, Germany

[umashankar manthravadi]

Yes it is being set up by friends in Leipzig

Umashankar



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


 Original message 
From: Ralf R Radermacher 
Date: 15/04/2021 15:15 (GMT+05:30)
To: sursound@music.vt.edu
Subject: [Sursound] New venue for immersive audio in Leipzig, Germany

German newspaper 'taz' has an article about a new venue for immersive
audio named ZIMMT in Leipzig, Germany. The article is in German but
maybe Google will help.

https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaz.de%2FEroeffnung-Klangkunstzentrum-Leipzig%2F!5764873%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C94ba011ccc7d4b389e2808d8fff339b8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637540767404327291%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=IuyqPOgVc4Jlb4Q9LXbIbr7eiQHgc2h6rSWt7j9tB1g%3D&reserved=0

https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fzimmt.net%2Fen&data=04%7C01%7C%7C94ba011ccc7d4b389e2808d8fff339b8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637540767404327291%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=UAmvEER60%2FVkK8fDBCsxvba0L%2B89vdD6PtqYuk9H%2Flo%3D&reserved=0

Ralf

--
Ralf R. Radermacher  -  Köln/Cologne, Germany
Blog  : 
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Audio : 
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Web   : 
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Re: [Sursound] The birth of Ambisonics & the Soundfield Mike

[umashankar manthravadi]

Dear paul

Just a nice thought while it lasted.

umashankar

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10


From: Sursound  on behalf of Paul Hodges 

Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2020 5:30:21 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group 
Subject: Re: [Sursound] The birth of Ambisonics & the Soundfield Mike

--On 26 May 2020 09:17 + umashankar manthravadi
 wrote:

> I noticed there is a zoom H2n also mounted on the same stand as the
> rode surround mic. I also notice the meters are facing away from the
> performers, which is how Brahma-in-Zoom is used. Do you think it was
> Brahma-in-Zoom ?

No, it was a standard H2n, but with the v2 firmware that generates a
horizontal ambisonic file in Ambix format.  Both mics on the stand are
mine, and the other mic was not a Røde but an original Soundfield
SPS200
(I had a calibration file made for it by Core Sound, though).

Paul

--
Paul Hodges

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Re: [Sursound] The birth of Ambisonics & the Soundfield Mike

[umashankar manthravadi]

dear richard

very nice to see this. I noticed there is a zoom H2n also mounted on the same 
stand as the rode surround mic. I also notice the meters are facing away from 
the performers, which is how Brahma-in-Zoom is used. Do you think it was 
Brahma-in-Zoom ?

umashankar

From: Sursound  on behalf of Richard Lee 

Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2020 2:39 AM
To: sursound@music.vt.edu ; micbuild...@groups.io 

Subject: [Sursound] The birth of Ambisonics & the Soundfield Mike

https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DX23hZNoSkUs&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb3d2f920e84a4583233008d7ff5da9dc%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637258650049222365&sdata=2wYn0Mfz84q1yGuPwNYHbT54Mu%2FOyPrsPK%2Bc4PT0yAs%3D&reserved=0

The Calrec Soundfield mike, the practical implementation of Michael Gerzon & 
Peter Craven's invention, was how I got involved in microphone design.

It was incredible just being with Michael .. a guy with a brain truly the size 
of a planet.

The Mk4 was, IM not so HO, the best microphone of the 20th Century.
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Re: [Sursound] Software Oscillator

[umashankar manthravadi]

I use angelo farina’s aurora on audacity – both are free



umashankar



Sent from Mail for Windows 10




From: Sursound  on behalf of moskowitz 

Sent: Friday, August 23, 2019 10:03:35 PM
To: sursound@music.vt.edu 
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Software Oscillator

Bill de Garis  wrote:

> Thanks for the replies for portable telephones but how about good old Win10?

Adobe Audition has a tone generator built in.


Len Moskowitz
Core Sound LLC
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.core-sound.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C813b11eca0f84697ce6a08d727e7adab%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637021748307646508&sdata=hQt31IJp2eef7aC6mKHe78CT7Mv8dOIIsnhzvMDU0n0%3D&reserved=0
Home of OctoMic and TetraMic
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[Sursound] Brahma 8 - SPS and Ambi

[umashankar manthravadi]

Dear all

I have been planning to announce this for some time now. There is a second 
order Brahma microphone now available.  It is self contained, with
Din 12 male connectors. We provide Mogami balanced four channel cables, with 4 
XLR males each, to mate with this microphone.
The microphones are calibrated, and we provide two sets of filtermatrix for 
each microphone, to encode to Ambix 2nd order and SPS8. At the moment this has 
to be done with Angelo Farina’s X Volver software, but David Mcgriffy (who 
developed the encoding) has promised to create a plug in for this onversion. 
Details are at  https://brahmamic.com/products/2nd-order/

umashankar

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

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Re: [Sursound] Enquiry on upmixing from 1st order ambisonics to 3rd order ambisonics.

[umashankar manthravadi]

I worked in an ethnomusicology archive in India for over forty years, and 
retired in 2015. In that period I have overseen the transition for spool based 
analog archive to an all digital archive. The spools that we recorded, and the 
spools we received recorded, are still preserved, though there are now 24 bit 
digital copies.



One rule I have always observed: make the best copy you can, but do not apply 
any ‘improvements’ (noise reduction comes to mind). If the recordings came as 
MP3s. we preserve them as MP3s, alongside a Wave file. If the recording is 44.1 
k sampling rate, we do not upgrade to 48 kHz, nor do we convert 16 bit files to 
24 bit.



In the last few years, I have deposited first order Ambisonic recordings in the 
archive, both as A format and B format. You need the B format because it is 
always possible something in the conversion chain will get lost – the 
filtermatrix, the processing software. I will soon be depositing eight channel 
recordings done with Brahma-8. They will be encoded to 2nd order B format, and 
SPS, and the originals will also be preserved. Hopefully, there will be 12 
channel MEMs based all digital recordings. The same rules apply.



These rules are the result of many years of discussion with archivists around 
the world.



umashankar



Sent from Mail for Windows 10




From: Sursound  on behalf of Stefan Schreiber 

Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2019 7:28:25 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Enquiry on upmixing from 1st order ambisonics to 3rd 
order ambisonics.





Citando Dave Hunt :

>> From: Politis Archontis 
>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Enquiry on upmixing from 1st order
>> ambisonics to 3rd order ambisonics.
>> Date: 22 February 2019 18:15:00 GMT
>> To: Surround Sound discussion group 
>>
>>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> These upmixing methods extract a lot of information from the FOA
>> recording that is then re-used to essentially “synthesize" the HOA
>> signals, with a spatial resolution that would not be possible with
>> the FOA recordings. They are “active” in that sense, and
>> signal-dependent, compared to the “passive" classical ambisonic
>> decoding. Their success depends of course on how effective is their
>> underlying model and how robustly they are implemented.
>>
>> In that sense there isn’t necessarily a large benefit in parametric
>> upmixing from FOA to 3rd-order, compared to parametric decoding for
>> playback, since these methods can also upmix directly from FOA to,
>> say, 40 speakers or headphones, with their maximum sharpness.
>> However, the HOA upmixing could be useful for people that are
>> working with a HOA processing pipeline, and they want to integrate
>> FOA or lower-order material seamlessly.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Archontis Politis
>
>


> Very few people have access to microphones beyond FOA, so that in a
> live recording a number of close microphones could be mixed in third
> order, with a FOA microphone as a "room" mic.


I don't understand these permanent "objections".

The Octomic and the Zylia ZM-1 microphones are available and well priced.
Why not just doing some investment (for a longer time), and just buy
one of these?

COMPASS seems to be able to upsample 2nd and 3rd order to higher, so
you seem to have always some
advantage.
(To be confirmed after COMPASS gets available, of course.)

 From persons claiming to be professional recordists I would actually
expect to use up-to-date equipment.
(The mentioned microphones don't cost more or much more than some
professional cameras - just to compare.
I expect that a real photographer... you know what I mean.)

Best,

Stefan Schreiber


>
> For location recording, the FOA mic options are more robust, with
> better weather protection, and more practical than any higher order
> option.
>
> In a "synthesised" third order sound field, FOA recordings could be
> used as more "ambient" stems.
>
> The up-mix is a re-coder, FOA to third order. What would follow it
> is a third order mixer and a decoder to loudspeaker feeds. Other
> third order sounds could  be mixed into the decoder. More than one
> FOA signal could be mixed into the re-coder. Whether it is better
> that each FOA signal has its own re-coder is debatable.
>
> If the re-coder includes its own identical decoder, which cannot be
> bypassed, the two (or more) sets of third order decoder loudspeaker
> outputs could be mixed together. The availability of an identical
> decoder, and a suitable mixer might be problematic.
>
>
> Ciao,
>
> Dave Hunt
>


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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[umashankar manthravadi]

I match bulk purchased Chinese capsules for my Brahma Microphones and it has 
become increasingly easy to find sets of four matching for gain and front to 
back ratios.

But matching capsules is only one part of calibration.



umashankar



Sent from Mail for Windows 10




From: Sursound  on behalf of Paul Hodges 

Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2018 4:56:28 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

-- At 11:31 16-09-18, Ralf R Radermacher wrote:

> Seriously, how many
> people care about numerical specs, apart from a handful of freaks on
> this list?

Not so many.  But I wonder to what extent the requirement for
calibration for good results is in any case being lessened by
improvements in consistency of mass-produced capsules.  Røde seem to
imply something about that under the heading of improvements in
manufacturing.

--On 16 September 2018 12:09 +0200 David Pickett  wrote:

> More to the point, how many people (including those here) can
> actually play back Ambisonics at home -- minimally as 4.0?

I have a permanent 4.0 setup.  Of course, I know various people with
irregularly arranged 5.1 setups - but they have no interest in audio.

Paul

--
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Re: [Sursound] Soundfield plugin

[umashankar manthravadi]

As far as I can tell it does nothing in the frequency domain. But I was 
surprised when I gave it an A format file recorded with Brahma as if it was an 
SF 1 file. The processing was surprisingly effective (I mean it new front from 
back).



umashankar



Sent from Mail for Windows 10




From: Sursound  on behalf of Gary Gallagher 

Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2018 1:04:02 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: [Sursound] Soundfield plugin

Rode officially released the nt-sf1 and it's proceesing software - anyone
have the technical nouse to elaborate this passage?

"Eschewing the matrices and correction filters of previous generations, it
utilises state-of-the-art frequency-domain processing.

https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rode.com%2Fsoundfieldplugin%23footer_download&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc8f31b90ba384cd30ed208d61addabf3%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636725936698235488&sdata=518%2BNsrBdwBpXKj0E5KiaBryoKpIlverlbuh5iKd%2F9Y%3D&reserved=0

Gary
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Re: [Sursound] tetrahedral mic record

[umashankar manthravadi]

Well, I have been on sursound for a very long time, certainly longer than ten 
years



umashankar



Sent from Mail for Windows 10




From: Sursound  on behalf of Eero Aro 

Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2018 8:04:57 PM
To: sursound@music.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [Sursound] tetrahedral mic record

umashankar wrote:
> I read this many years ago so cannot remember a source, but I think
> on-axis is not the best direction for a tetrahedral array.
Funny that you remember that discussion, it must have been more than a
decade ago in Sursound.

I can't remember whoever started the thread, but I asked the same
question as
Steven. I had played with the rotating plugins and came to think that I
could
point one of the SFM capsules directly towards the center of the performers.
I was very soon told that it's not a good idea.

Eero
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Re: [Sursound] tetrahedral mic record

[umashankar manthravadi]

I read this many years ago so cannot remember a source, but I think on-axis is 
not the best direction for a tetrahedral array. I think I was told this because 
I was trying to design an array with the capsules at 0, 90, 180 and 270 because 
it would be easier to do (before 3d printing arrived).



umashankar



Sent from Mail for Windows 10




From: Sursound  on behalf of Steven Boardman 

Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2018 6:41:05 PM
To: sursound@music.vt.edu
Subject: [Sursound] tetrahedral mic record

Hi Folks

Is it better to align performers to capsule axis, to get the best frequency, 
and noise performance from those directions, then rotate the b-format encode 
afterwards?

I am recording at Union Chapel, with tetrahedral mics, and spot microphones.
The final output will be stereo and HOA.
I usually just position tetra mics as normal (upside down and end-fire), but it 
occurred to me that it may be better to align the capsules to performers (where 
possible).
All performers will be spread out horizontally on an equilateral triangle, with 
the main tetra on a corner.
The main decode will be stereo, but I want to capture the acoustic of the 
place, and do a HOA mix.


Best

Steve
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Re: [Sursound] Looking for mic advice (Zylia)

[umashankar manthravadi]

zyla is made of mems. We are now getting low noise and high sensitivity mems, 
but they are still omni.

Omni mounted on the surface of a sphere has some directional characteristics. 
Later today I am going to measure a single mems loaded with a 16 mm square horn 
(mouth flush on a 40 mm  sphere) to see what kind of directivity pattern I will 
get.

umashankar

From: Sursound  on behalf of Fernando 
Lopez-Lezcano 
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 12:05 AM
To: Surround Sound discussion group; Len Moskowitz
Cc: Justin Bennett
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Looking for mic advice (Zylia)

On 08/16/2018 10:22 AM, Bo-Erik Sandholm wrote:
> I agree with Len, we have not seen any technical spec of self noise level
> of the MEMS (clusters?)  that are used in Zylia.
>
> Only text saying that in normal musical recording situations self noise is
> not disturbing :-).

:-)

> I have a personal theory that self noise of physical elements in an
> ambisonic mic array is not directly additive.
> The basis for my theory is that as we convert to B-format the noise from
> all the physical elements are distributed over a spherical surface,
> and the noise level for a virtual microphone in decoding do not have the
> full sum of the added microphone noise levels.
> Only coherent noise within the take up volume of the virtual microphone is
> relevant in that directional microphones response.

I think the noise we are talking about is that of the difference
microphones. In an open array built with cardioids that would be for
order 2 or higher, in a rigid sphere array with omnidirectional capsules
that would be for order 1 or higher.

Those components drop in level at low frequencies at a rate of n x
6dB/octave (starting at high frequencies). For the second order
components of a microphone made of cardioids n = 1 (6dB/oct), add
6dB/oct per order increase for higher orders.

As the component drops in amplitude towards the low frequencies you need
a filter that compensates for the drop, and of course it amplifies the
sef-noise of the capsules as well. At some point you have to give up or
the noise becomes a problem (where exactly depends on the self-noise of
the capsules and what kind of materials you are recording).

In the second order microphones I'm building for the SpHEAR project I
can use the second order components down to about 400-500Hz ("unity
gain" for them is at around 9KHz). Even then the noise is objectionable
(but not necessarily "disturbing" :-) for recordings that have wide
dynamic range (my encoder uses an expander on those components to try to
minimize that effect). You can definitely hear the noise if there is a
silence in the recording. Of course it disappears if you mute the second
order components :-)

A third order microphone (made of cardioids - I don't think there is
one) would be worse, the drop would be 12dB/oct for the third order
components. So you would have to limit the low end of the frequency
response at a higher frequency.

AFAIK nobody specifies the noise specs for _those_ components in an
Ambisonics microphone. In a first order microphone made of cardioids
that is not a problem, as is the case for the first order components of
a second order microphone made of cardioids.

(as a reference, the open source octofile software released for the
OctoMic shows that their calibration has three choices for the low
frequency cut off for the second order components, 500Hz, 900Hz and
1.5KHz).

-- Fernando

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Re: [Sursound] Ricoh TA-1?

[umashankar manthravadi]

angelo has one, I don't remember what he said exactly, but he thinks it is not 
bad.

umashankar


From: Sursound  on behalf of Marc Lavall?e 

Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2018 4:21 AM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: [Sursound] Ricoh TA-1?

A FOA microphone is sold as an accessory for the Ricoh Theta V 360 camera:

https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fus.ricoh-imaging.com%2Findex.php%2Faccessories%2Ftheta-22%2Fta-1&data=02%7C01%7C%7C328a2bf07467470adbe608d6023890b0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636698839300387682&sdata=rhS7CLEUjbFO5CGoN7OosSpgtsd3BUZ0cXhZUCf1Sc8%3D&reserved=0

Is anyone tried it (yet)? Is it a gadget?

Marc

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Re: [Sursound] Looking for mic advice

[umashankar manthravadi]

yes. the rf issues have been resolved in the versions now manufactured in 
bangalore

umashankar

From: Sursound  on behalf of Phi Shu 

Sent: Monday, August 13, 2018 5:23 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Looking for mic advice

Buy a second order if you can afford it, also, not sure about Tetramic, but
the Bramha standalone had real issues with radio frequency interference,
shielding was horrendous, doing soundscape recordings in an urban setting
was often impossible if a phone mast, radio transmitter etc, was anywhere
in the vicinity, many locations where getting a clean recording was simply
impossible due to these issues, but perhaps these issues have been remedied
in the newer models?  Never had problems like this with "big brand" in
similar settings.

On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 10:50 AM, Eduardo Patricio <
eduardo.patri...@zylia.pl> wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> Have you had the chance to test Zylia’s ZM-1?
> It’s a 19-capsule spherical mic. The raw file can be exported to 1st, 2nd
> and 3rd orders.
>
> Here’s some excerpts from a test I did with it in an urban park on a calm
> day (raw format exported to 1st order, ambix).
>
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2FhVWeP5wxEuw&data=02%7C01%7C%7C8a0420cb6af04ae8481108d601137ef3%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636697580576057003&sdata=FJgukjLJRT2U2mZVq8rVwgsufZy%2FjhicfVzgZVEIzr4%3D&reserved=0
>  
> 
>(Please, be
> aware that the levels are rather low in this recording)
>
> Best,
> Eduardo
>
>
> 
> Eduardo Patrício
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.eduardopatricio.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C8a0420cb6af04ae8481108d601137ef3%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636697580576057003&sdata=To6eRZmW5u%2FHWQixC5iUGdBZg7zfUvGbE%2BFAYS4sM0Q%3D&reserved=0
> +44 (0) 7435512479
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 10, 2018, at 8:22 PM, Drew Kirkland  wrote:
> >
> > Hi guys
> >
> > We have recently decided to record nature in ambisonic format with a
> > additional specific mono and stereo recordings added in at edit stage.
> >
> > I would be interested in current ambisonic mic choice, we don't have
> loads
> > of cash but want to get as transparent a sound field as possible.
> >
> > We have all had experience over the last 30 years or so of using standard
> > mics and have our favourites for particular situations but have never had
> > experience of usi g ambisonic mics and relevant field recorders.
> >
> > Advice welcome
> >
> > Drew
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Drew Kirkland
> > 1 campbleton cottage
> > Hunterston Estate
> > KA23 9QF
> >
> > 07876238608
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Re: [Sursound] Looking for mic advice

[umashankar manthravadi]

Thank you Emanuele.

I now have a large diaphragm version mounted on the zoom, intended for nature 
recordings. Here is a sample, in B format. 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=17GtK69T_RsN0iYyYKuWOdZNjrweweUML



There is also an ambisonic studio microphone using 25 mm capsules.

You can find all these on  http://brahmamic.com/



We are currently working on an an all-digital MEMS array – eight capsule, 
second order.



umashankar



Sent from Mail for Windows 10




From: Sursound  on behalf of Emanuele Costantini 

Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2018 10:57:19 PM
To: sursound@music.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Looking for mic advice

In the meantime, while waiting for the next phantasmagoric mic to come
out we need to get out and record right?
How heavy and bulky, and how much post work you are planning to have/do?
Following my past experiences and actual needs I ended up using the
Brahma-in-Zoom mic, which is now always with me. Very happy with it.
Obviously is not the quietest mic in the world but is very decent and
gave me the chance to record things I couldn't record otherwise (and
also recorded very wuiet environments with it). I modded a Rycote blimp
to host it, so I have no wind fear, I just switch it on and record.
Battery life is impressive.
When then the new Rycote and the Reynolds will see the light, I will be
very happy to give them a test and hopefully buy one or the other, as I
need a bigger rig for other jobs.

:-)

Emanuele


On 10/08/2018 19:37, Søren Bendixen wrote:
> Hi
> I´m in the same situation, want to record nature (and other things) in 
> ambisonics. and I have no experience - and waiting for the new Røde(Rode) NT- 
> SF1 - I will be just below 1000 USD
> Røde took over Soundfield and then bought some knowledge about Ambisonics 
> equipment and this microphone would be the result ... In Denmark, for 
> example, Sennheiser ambeo costs around 1900 usd
> They announced the NT - SF1 almost 6 months ago - so..
>
> BR
> Søren Bendixen
>> Den 10. aug. 2018 kl. 20.22 skrev Drew Kirkland :
>>
>> Hi guys
>>
>> We have recently decided to record nature in ambisonic format with a
>> additional specific mono and stereo recordings added in at edit stage.
>>
>> I would be interested in current ambisonic mic choice, we don't have loads
>> of cash but want to get as transparent a sound field as possible.
>>
>> We have all had experience over the last 30 years or so of using standard
>> mics and have our favourites for particular situations but have never had
>> experience of usi g ambisonic mics and relevant field recorders.
>>
>> Advice welcome
>>
>> Drew
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Drew Kirkland
>> 1 campbleton cottage
>> Hunterston Estate
>> KA23 9QF
>>
>> 07876238608
>> -- next part --
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>> 
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>>  - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> Med venlig hilsen/Best regards
>
> Søren Bendixen
> Composer/Sound Designer/Producer
>
> Company: Audiotect
>
> New Exhibition sound design " På Djengis Khans stepper - Mongoliets Nomader",
> - Moesgaard Museum, 19 june 2018 - 7 april 2019
> - National Museum of Denmark: From june  2019
>
> Jyllandsposten: 5 (out of 6) Stars: “The illusion of a railroad journey is 
> underpinned by the sceneries that stand outside the windows. Sound and image 
> are in exemplary harmony, which is just as consistent
> completed when you attend the exhibition. the room is generally enhanced by a 
> rather fascinating sound design” (22 juni 2018)
>
>
>
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Re: [Sursound] [allowed] Re: Strange 'buzz' in Ambisonic recording

[umashankar manthravadi]

Was it a brahma mic ? I got the impression it was not. If it is a Brahma, and I 
get its serial number, I can take a look.



umashankar



Sent from Mail for Windows 10




From: Sursound  on behalf of David McGriffy 

Sent: Friday, May 11, 2018 8:44:33 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] [allowed] Re: Strange 'buzz' in Ambisonic recording

Given that this is a Brahma, it uses FFT based processing.  My suspicion is
that the artifact is actually something in the FFTs like a windowing
problem or a bug handling the first FFT bins.  At 48kHz, 1K block
boundaries would be about 48Hz.

Does using Xvolver give the same artifact?  IIRC I read that code and tried
to do the FFT filters in a compatible way in VVEncode so it could be they
both have the same trouble or it could just be a bug in my code.

David
VVAudio

On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 9:13 AM Fons Adriaensen  wrote:

> On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 01:03:57AM +0100, Gerard Lardner wrote:
>
> > Actually really only when the organ is playing; the brass is usually with
> > the organ, but not always. The buzz is present when the organ is playing
> > loudly.
>
> Could you make available a small part (20 seconds or so) of the original
> A-format file and the encoded B-format one for the part where you hear
> the 'buzz' ??
>
> --
> FA
>
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Re: [Sursound] RIR measuring, how to capture a higher order Ambisonic room responce?

[umashankar manthravadi]

I have been using a stepper motor (of the kind used in 3d printer ) driven by a 
low cost Arduino and motor control board. I 3d print a snug fitting fixture for 
the microphone with the motor shaft  aligned to the array centre. It is low 
cost so I design a fitting for each mic I test, including the Brahma-in-Zoom. A 
small Arduino script rotates the stepper 25 steps each time I press a button 
(for 16 positions) and 50 steps (for 8 positions). I was worried about the 
stepper skipping with the weight of the microphone, but that is not happening, 
even with a five volt supply. I was ready with a thrust bearing between the 
motor housing and the microphone housing but it was not necessary. I plan to 
get rid of the switch and use a pulse on the right channel instead, though I 
generally do not like to automate things too much.



umashankar



Sent from Mail for Windows 10




From: Sursound  on behalf of Fernando 
Lopez-Lezcano 
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2018 1:40:56 AM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] RIR measuring, how to capture a higher order Ambisonic 
room responce?

On 04/23/2018 12:42 PM, Stefan Schreiber wrote:
>> I can do the 4 measurements with 45 degrees rotation of my tetramic, that
>> is not so difficult,  the next step to create a second order ambisonic
>> RIR
>>
>> that is where I will fail :-).

You would need to "calibrate" the created 8 capsule array. That is,
record impulse responses all around it in a big space or anechoic room
(enough to accurately sample the spherical harmonics you want), and then
derive an A to B converter from that. I have some preliminary code in my
SpHEAR project that tries to do that, but it is not a "push a button and
you are done" thing at all...

For Fons's code, and to do this the "right way"...
On 03/27/2018 01:18 PM, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
> ...  you'll have to sell your soul :-)

:-P

> I believe you might need a quite high precision to be successful even at
> the first step...
>
> (A SF mike has narrowly spaced capsules, and needs calibrationThe
> mechanical precision you need to measure 2nd order with a FOA mike is
> IMHO high.)

Based on my experience with the Octathingy's I have built I would agree,
you would need to be very precise (and repeatable).

In my case to get good calibration data I need to rotate the microphone
with no wobble and at different orientations (or if it is not _exactly_
perfect, try to get away with calibrating out the average delays to all
capsules).

BTW, I cannot move the speaker around which would probably be a better
solution because of space constraints... I can barely get 4.5mSecs of IR
data in the spaces I can use.

> So the mathematical methods (based on FOA but improving the RIR
> resolution, as suggested by Archontis) should be a better way to go
> on... Especially since you could receive even higher resolutions/orders,
> and in practice.
>
> So the presented ideas to capture 2nd order RIRs via a 1st order mike
> are brilliant, but are they practical?

Probably not practical IMHO.

> And even if somebody could succeed in a very careful process: this does
> not look to be a robust measurement method. ..
>
> We always talk about the 1st reflections, in this case. Not reverb,
> which is kind of statistical.
>
> Of course you can try, but how much precision is really needed? (Should
> be clarified before...)

I would have to go to my data to get some numbers... I definitely can
see effects at high frequencies when the data capture is not precise
(I'm in the process of trying to build a better measuring rig).

-- Fernando

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Re: [Sursound] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?

[umashankar manthravadi]

Or get an approximate idea of what you are recording by listening to the front 
pair.



umashankar



Sent from Mail for Windows 10




From: Sursound  on behalf of Jack Reynolds 

Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 4:56:13 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?

It’s just four cardioids pointing outwards from a central point, so you can use 
them as individual signals if you want. Or encode them to B-Format or any 
number of other virtual microphone arrangements.
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Re: [Sursound] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?

[umashankar manthravadi]

No and I do not know any ambisonic recordings that do not need some processing, 
Even when the output is B format,  you have to process it to hear it.



umashankar



Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10




From: Sursound  on behalf of Oddity Medium 

Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 4:29:13 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?

but what is the putput of the brahma-in-zoom? is it similar output to h2n?

for example suppose i dont have any recorder with me and i just need to
record something quickly, and i don't care about ambisonics so much as much
as getting a high quality ambience/recording, can i use the brahma-in-zoom?
will it output WAVs? or will i need to convert it with a computer

i guess my question is, do i need to do extra processing for every
recording with the brahma-in-zoom? cometimes i dont want to use a
DAW/software, i just wanna drag/drop the recording into a drive, straight
up WAV's and just play them, and not muck around with conversion, ardour,
bla bla  - can i do this with the b-i-z?

i guess i'm saying, is the workflow much more complicated? frankly, i dont
wanna be near computers, i wanna be outdoors.

also, can i monitor live with headphone the b-i-z?

On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 12:29 PM, umashankar manthravadi <
umasha...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> My modified Brahma-in-Zoom eliminates several of the flows. First, I am
> using matched sets of 14 mm capsules, mounted on a true tetrahedral array.
> Two, I calibrate the microphone, which eliminates quite a few of the
> irregularities which come from mounting the array in the body. I have some
> very good quality recordings using Brahma-in-Zoom.
>
>
>
> It is till as compact and convenient if not as cheap.
>
>
>
> umashankar
>
>
>
> Sent from 
> Mail<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgo.microsoft.com%2Ffwlink%2F%3FLinkId%3D550986&data=02%7C01%7C%7C5b102313b34a42cc2bcd08d59ed224e7%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636589547754304766&sdata=wQ0U4zNm8%2BAnKKo54gfSDIwNeac2h2NttQ7XtQcxoUw%3D&reserved=0>
>  for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> 
> From: Sursound  on behalf of Enda Bates <
> eba...@tcd.ie>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 3:52:41 PM
> To: sursound@music.vt.edu
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?
>
> Hi all,
>
>   so as Gus mentioned we did a detailed comparison of a number of
> Ambisonic microphones including the H2n, which you can find a summary of on
> my blog or in the original papers in the AES library for all the details.
> Here are my general thoughts.
>
> - in general the H2n unsurprisingly can't quite compete with a proper
> Ambisonic microphone as it's missing height, and the irregular spacing of
> the capsules causes a reduction in localization accuracy and some other
> issues.
>
> - however, it is definitely usable, and the fidelity of the inbuilt
> microphones is not bad at all considering the price, and ease of use.
> Especially for capturing general ambiences or the like it's more than
> usable, and I nearly always record with a H2n just as a backup as well as
> another Ambisonic microphone (this saved me on a couple of occasions).
>
> - the price, and physical size are very useful as it is something you can
> stick in a bag and turn on and setup in seconds, which make it very handy
> for off the cuff recordings (although that's true of the Brahama also of
> course).
>
>
> So my two cents, it's flawed but actually very good for the money.
>
> enda
>
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Re: [Sursound] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?

[umashankar manthravadi]

My modified Brahma-in-Zoom eliminates several of the flows. First, I am using 
matched sets of 14 mm capsules, mounted on a true tetrahedral array. Two, I 
calibrate the microphone, which eliminates quite a few of the irregularities 
which come from mounting the array in the body. I have some very good quality 
recordings using Brahma-in-Zoom.



It is till as compact and convenient if not as cheap.



umashankar



Sent from Mail for Windows 10




From: Sursound  on behalf of Enda Bates 

Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 3:52:41 PM
To: sursound@music.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [Sursound] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?

Hi all,

  so as Gus mentioned we did a detailed comparison of a number of Ambisonic 
microphones including the H2n, which you can find a summary of on my blog or in 
the original papers in the AES library for all the details. Here are my general 
thoughts.

- in general the H2n unsurprisingly can't quite compete with a proper Ambisonic 
microphone as it's missing height, and the irregular spacing of the capsules 
causes a reduction in localization accuracy and some other issues.

- however, it is definitely usable, and the fidelity of the inbuilt microphones 
is not bad at all considering the price, and ease of use. Especially for 
capturing general ambiences or the like it's more than usable, and I nearly 
always record with a H2n just as a backup as well as another Ambisonic 
microphone (this saved me on a couple of occasions).

- the price, and physical size are very useful as it is something you can stick 
in a bag and turn on and setup in seconds, which make it very handy for off the 
cuff recordings (although that's true of the Brahama also of course).


So my two cents, it's flawed but actually very good for the money.

enda

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Re: [Sursound] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?

[umashankar manthravadi]

We have modified more than a 100 Zoom H2ns into Brahma-in-Zoom. We have 
incorporated the MS to XY conversion into the filtermatrix so there is no need 
to do additional conversion. It would have been nice to have raw signals on the 
MS pair, but I can live with it.

The MS signal in my Zooms is always the rear pair. I wire it so I can see the 
meters during recording. I have not seen too many problems because the lower 
dynamic range on the MS pair (specifically on the M channel)

The external input on the Zoom h2n is rather odd. It has its own preamp and for 
some  reason it is very poor quality compared to the four channels connected to 
the internal capsules.



umashankar





Sent from Mail for Windows 10




From: Sursound  on behalf of Jack Reynolds 

Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 2:13:24 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?


I recently built a tetrahedral array into a zoom h2n, but had problems with the 
m/s encoding of the first two channels eating into the already limited headroom 
of the mic pres. The signals are added together on the m channel and the 
resulting recording levels are very different on the first two channels when 
compared to channels 3 and 4.
I do with you could record channels 1 and 2 raw, like you can when in two 
channel m/s mode.

Jack
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Re: [Sursound] [allowed] Re: ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?

[umashankar manthravadi]

Thanks Gerard



I thought I would wait for the discussion to complete before I piped in, as the 
builder of “Brahma-in-Zoom” microphone. Zoom provides firmware which creates a 
B format signal from their microphones, without height. But my issue has always 
been the odd arrangement of the capsules – front  pair is XY, and the rear is 
MS, with a figure of eight sideways and a cardioid facing front.



Brahma-in-Zoom removes the original capsules and replaces it with a true 
tetrahedral array of 14 mm capsules. The microphone is then calibrated to 
produce a set of filtermatrix files. All recordings have to be processed with 
this matrix (Using Brahmavolver, X-Volver or VVencode) to produce B format 
recordings. There is now also a version with an array of 25 mm capsules mounted 
on top of the Zoom H2N and I am pleased with the results. This too is sold with 
calibration files. In fact, none of the microphones I sell are without 
calibration. There are a couple of second order designs I have built, but I am 
waiting on good and reliable calibration systems. Next week I will complete an 
all digital second order microphone, outputting to USB.



umashankar



Sent from Mail for Windows 10




From: Sursound  on behalf of Gerard Lardner 

Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 5:01:07 AM
To: sursound@music.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [Sursound] [allowed] Re: ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?

The Zoom H2n outputs A-format as two stereo files (wav or mp3)

Uumshankar is still producing the Brahma, and some interesting
developments from it; but no longer in association with Embrace Cinema
Gear (the original manufacturer for the Brahma Kickstart project).
Brahma Microphones is now at 
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbrahmamic.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0ef9e56f077c4c1007b908d59e720f50%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636589135070951502&sdata=2WIMwVJBC0vjHjmzVSWd4E8MhlvWWGEmkQnzb9KJbyY%3D&reserved=0


On 09/04/2018 23:16, Oddity Medium wrote:
> As I grok it, the Brahmas are significantly more expensive (3-4 times), and
> only output A-format. The Brahmas do perform FOA with-height. The Zoom H2N
> outputs WAV which is then massaged into pantophonic B-Format... correct?
>
> On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 11:28 PM, Augustine Leudar > wrote:
>> No you're not missing anything . You could use external mics with several
>> zoom H2s and do some surround stuff - but I digress. Read Endas reviews in
>> the link I posted - its probably the most in depth review of the Zoom H2N
>> for ambisonics you're likely to find. There is also Umashankars mod for the
>> zoom H2N which might interest you :
>>
>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.kickstarter.com%2Fprojects%2F1569945514%2Fbrahma-&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0ef9e56f077c4c1007b908d59e720f50%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636589135070951502&sdata=DqaSexjQUfTtn79BFe4AYJb7mm9KehDALo6K7u%2BMxAI%3D&reserved=0
>> affordable-ambisonics-microphone
>>
>> Im not sure if he's still doing it
>>
>> On 9 April 2018 at 22:06, Oddity Medium  wrote:
>>
>>> why would you use external mics for ambisonics if the h2n already does it
>>> (with the new firmware) ?
>>> because of better quality mics? or am i missing something?
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 10:57 PM, Augustine Leudar <
>>> augustineleu...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 I also think there was some signal to noise ratio issues with the mini
>>> jack
 in especially for wildlife recordings - whereas the signal to noise
>> ratio
 was lower with the onboard capsules. BTW this isnt the Zoom h4 with the
 mics on the side its the one with them in the top :

 https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.zoom-na.com%2Fproducts%2Ffield-video-&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0ef9e56f077c4c1007b908d59e720f50%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636589135070951502&sdata=rmvjVJ9TaG5UnnYBHJD4I7tSikJP3gtkP42KVfveZl4%3D&reserved=0
>> recording/field-recording/
 zoom-h2n-handy-recorder

 The Zoom h4 has XLR ins and is by all accounts a better choice for
>>> external
 mics.
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Re: [Sursound] Core Sound Announces OctoMic - First 2nd-orderAmbisonics Microphone

[umashankar manthravadi]

I was showing off a second order brahma microphone at the AES los angeles in 
2016, I had two versions (I think I took only one) one is a standard octagon, 
the other was an octagon with the top half rotated 45 degrees, which looks 
remarkably like Eric Benjamin’s Octathingy. Both used 14 mm capsules. I have 
since  built two other designs. One is a tetrahedron surround by a ring of 
four, and the other similar, but the ring is tangential capsules. I will 
probably end up using only the octathingy style. But in the meantime, I have 
been seduced by all digital MEMs based second order microphone outputting 
directly to USB. MEMs are Omni, so I am flush mounting them on a polished 
acrylic sphere 1.5 cm radius. I will post photographs on my facebook Brahma 
page soon.



By the way I visualize the octathingy as two tetrahedron superposed, one 
rotated 180 degrees.



umashankar







Sent from Mail for Windows 10




From: Sursound  on behalf of Len Moskowitz 

Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2018 4:53:15 PM
To: Stefan Schreiber
Cc: Sursound List
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Core Sound Announces OctoMic - First 
2nd-orderAmbisonics Microphone

Stefan Schreiber wrote:

> At first sight I could not tell anything about the difference between
> an OctaThingy and Octomic capsule mount.


> Even not at second...


>
> Could you give me/us  some hint?
Eric's OctaThingy is based on a tetragonal trapezohedron.
OctoMic is not. It's based on another geometric solid. The angles are
different.

Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com)
Core Sound LLC
www.core-sound.com
Home of TetraMic and OctoMic
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Re: [Sursound] oktava 1st order mic

[umashankar manthravadi]

Aah, I do one more thing. I include a small amount of absorbent material in the 
space between the capsules.



umashankar



Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10




From: Sursound  on behalf of umashankar 
manthravadi 
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2018 3:26:21 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] oktava 1st order mic

Dear aaron



I do both. Make matched sets and calibrate the array, for Brahma microphones. 
Having an open enough array is an issue I think I have solved (the array shape 
has changed over time, without making it significantly larger. I have tried 
making tangential arrays to avoid this, but I have not taken it further.



umashankar



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From: Sursound  on behalf of Aaron Heller 

Sent: Monday, March 12, 2018 3:17:41 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] oktava 1st order mic

The radius of the tetrahedral array determines the frequency at which the
B-format polar patterns start to breakdown. The formula given by Gerzon is
c/(pi*r), where c is the speed of sound and r is the radius of the
array[1]. Depending of the design, the acoustic radius is about 10% larger
than the physical radius, because the sound has to diffract around the
structures. So, in round numbers 10/r kHz, with r in cm. In a Soundfield
mic, the physical radius 1.47cm, so around 6.8 kHz. The Octava is over 4
cm, so less than 2.5kHz.  Note that very small capsules tend to be noisy,
so there is a tradeoff between noise and integrity of the patterns at high
frequencies.

In many of the 3D printed designs, the array is not open enough and the
interior space behind the capsules becomes a resonant chamber. This causes
peaks, dips and phase shifts in the response of the individual capsules
that are difficult to correct and affect the resulting patterns. There is
also the general geometry of the microphone body that tells you how much
care went into the design in terms of acoustic shadowing, reflections, and
diffraction. The large flat surface on the top of the preamp enclosure in
the Octava does not look good to me.

Part of the magic of a tetrahedral microphone is that the free- and
diffuse-field responses track each other. To achieve this, it is important
that the directivities of the four capsules are well matched [2].
Calibration can compensate for this to some degree, but the better the
capsules match, the better the result will be.  The only way to do this is
have a large collection of capsules, measure them individually, pick sets
of four, and then calibrate the entire array.  I know that Core Sound does
this (and Calrec did this). I don't know about other companies. In general,
I am suspicious of any tetrahedral mic that uses generic A-to-B conversion,
with no individual calibration.

[1] M. A. Gerzon, "The Design of Precisely Coincident Microphone Arrays for
Stereo and Surround Sound," 50th AES Convention Preprints, London, no. 20,
1975.

[2] A. J. Heller and E. M. Benjamin, "Calibration of Soundfield Microphones
using the Diffuse-Field Response," 133rd AES Convention Preprints, San
Francisco, no. 7811, 2012.


On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 3:13 PM, Peter P.  wrote:
>
> * Len Moskowitz  [2018-03-11 18:48]:
> > Gerard Lardner wrote:
> >
> > > Fons Adriaensen in Italy calibrated my Oktava. I believe Richard Lee
in
> > > Australia might still offer a calibration service, though he appears
to
> > > be less active on the internet these days, and I think Core Sound in
the
> > > USA also will do it - they used to say it on their website, but I
> > > haven't checked lately.
> >
> > We could, but in general we can confidently state that Oktava doesn't
> > understand how to build a first-order ambisonic microphone, and the
cost and
> > effort to calibrate it is not worthwhile.
>
> Thank you for your opinion Len. I am tempted to ask 'why' but let me
> ask instead what are the most difficult things to get right when
> building a first-order microphone.
>
> best, P
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Re: [Sursound] oktava 1st order mic

[umashankar manthravadi]

Dear aaron



I do both. Make matched sets and calibrate the array, for Brahma microphones. 
Having an open enough array is an issue I think I have solved (the array shape 
has changed over time, without making it significantly larger. I have tried 
making tangential arrays to avoid this, but I have not taken it further.



umashankar



Sent from Mail for Windows 10




From: Sursound  on behalf of Aaron Heller 

Sent: Monday, March 12, 2018 3:17:41 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] oktava 1st order mic

The radius of the tetrahedral array determines the frequency at which the
B-format polar patterns start to breakdown. The formula given by Gerzon is
c/(pi*r), where c is the speed of sound and r is the radius of the
array[1]. Depending of the design, the acoustic radius is about 10% larger
than the physical radius, because the sound has to diffract around the
structures. So, in round numbers 10/r kHz, with r in cm. In a Soundfield
mic, the physical radius 1.47cm, so around 6.8 kHz. The Octava is over 4
cm, so less than 2.5kHz.  Note that very small capsules tend to be noisy,
so there is a tradeoff between noise and integrity of the patterns at high
frequencies.

In many of the 3D printed designs, the array is not open enough and the
interior space behind the capsules becomes a resonant chamber. This causes
peaks, dips and phase shifts in the response of the individual capsules
that are difficult to correct and affect the resulting patterns. There is
also the general geometry of the microphone body that tells you how much
care went into the design in terms of acoustic shadowing, reflections, and
diffraction. The large flat surface on the top of the preamp enclosure in
the Octava does not look good to me.

Part of the magic of a tetrahedral microphone is that the free- and
diffuse-field responses track each other. To achieve this, it is important
that the directivities of the four capsules are well matched [2].
Calibration can compensate for this to some degree, but the better the
capsules match, the better the result will be.  The only way to do this is
have a large collection of capsules, measure them individually, pick sets
of four, and then calibrate the entire array.  I know that Core Sound does
this (and Calrec did this). I don't know about other companies. In general,
I am suspicious of any tetrahedral mic that uses generic A-to-B conversion,
with no individual calibration.

[1] M. A. Gerzon, "The Design of Precisely Coincident Microphone Arrays for
Stereo and Surround Sound," 50th AES Convention Preprints, London, no. 20,
1975.

[2] A. J. Heller and E. M. Benjamin, "Calibration of Soundfield Microphones
using the Diffuse-Field Response," 133rd AES Convention Preprints, San
Francisco, no. 7811, 2012.


On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 3:13 PM, Peter P.  wrote:
>
> * Len Moskowitz  [2018-03-11 18:48]:
> > Gerard Lardner wrote:
> >
> > > Fons Adriaensen in Italy calibrated my Oktava. I believe Richard Lee
in
> > > Australia might still offer a calibration service, though he appears
to
> > > be less active on the internet these days, and I think Core Sound in
the
> > > USA also will do it - they used to say it on their website, but I
> > > haven't checked lately.
> >
> > We could, but in general we can confidently state that Oktava doesn't
> > understand how to build a first-order ambisonic microphone, and the
cost and
> > effort to calibrate it is not worthwhile.
>
> Thank you for your opinion Len. I am tempted to ask 'why' but let me
> ask instead what are the most difficult things to get right when
> building a first-order microphone.
>
> best, P
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Re: [Sursound] [allowed] oktava 1st order mic

[umashankar manthravadi]

If you had seen my website (brahmamic.com) recently, you will notice that I 
have been offering to calibrate third party microphones including diy 
microphones. I also recalibrate brahmas more than two years old.



umashankar



Sent from Mail for Windows 10




From: Sursound  on behalf of Gerard Lardner 

Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2018 3:58:52 AM
To: sursound@music.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [Sursound] [allowed] oktava 1st order mic

My attempts to respond last night from my phone didn't work. Try again:

I have an older Oktava MK_012 4D. I bought it relatively cheaply on eBay
a few years ago; it came without any software or digital calibration
data; I think Oktava don't offer anything more than paper frequency
response traces for each capsule. I think it has a larger capsule array
size than the MK-4012; in the MK-012 4D, the capsules lie on a sphere of
about 96 mm diameter.

Fons Adriaensen kindly calibrated my Oktava MK_012 4D for me.
Calibration made a big difference; without calibration, directional cues
were almost non-existant. But the same recordings, reprocessed with the
calibration files, had directional cues, at least at mid- and lower
frequencies. Fons, and Angelo Farina, explained that the mic could not
resolve directional information at higher frequencies due to the large
array size. I think the capsules on my Oktava are not very well matched
(it is maybe 20 years old), and it really needed the calibration.

I love the quality of the sound captured by the Oktava, especially for
classical chamber music and choral music but, to be honest, I use a
Brahma more often, because of its much better directionality.

My recommendation is, if you have an Oktava MK-4012, get it calibrated.
In my case, it made a big difference.

Fons Adriaensen in Italy calibrated my Oktava. I believe Richard Lee in
Australia might still offer a calibration service, though he appears to
be less active on the internet these days, and I think Core Sound in the
USA also will do it - they used to say it on their website, but I
haven't checked lately.

Gerard Lardner


On 08/03/2018 18:51, Peter P. wrote:
> Hi list, please excuse if this has already been discussed here before,
> the archive didn't show much results for me. What is the best way to
> encode the signal from the Oktava MK4012 1st order microphone capsules
> into ambisonics? Did anyone measure the mic so far or is a generic
> encoder the best way to do it for now? It seems that Oktava is not
> providing any hardware/software encoders... Thank you for any ideas!
> Peter

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Re: [Sursound] Twirling 720 Microphone

[umashankar manthravadi]

I got mine today too. Did not like the capsule alignment; it is 45 degrees off. 
It is usb 3 mini connector so I have to find an adaptor. In the meantime, I 
plugged it into my windows phone and it detected the mic, but not as a four 
channel device. I have the twirling software, so if I get to plug it into my 
desktop might be able to do something with it.



umashankar



Sent from Mail for Windows 10




From: Sursound  on behalf of John Leonard Main 

Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2018 9:35:13 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: [Sursound] Twirling 720 Microphone

Mine (pre-ordered for some small amount) arrived a couple of days ago and I’ve 
got it hooked up to my MacBook via a suitable USB adapter and an old Apple 
keyboard extension cable. At first, I couldn't get a sensible signal out of it, 
but then discovered that it needs to be connected via USB3, or it won’t work. 
Then I took a look at the capsule orientation, which, although it is indeed a 
tetrahedral array, seems to be skewed by 45º off centre, but as the output is 
encoded in some way into two channels, this may not be a problem. By using 
their 720 Studio app, I can get a sort-of surround signal out of it, although 
it appears to have no vertical information. The skimpy on-line manual is pretty 
useless for Mac users, so I wonder in anyone else has had better or more 
consistent results?

Bruce - I could send it to you for chamber analysis, if you’re interested.

All the best,

John
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[Sursound] webpage for brahma

[umashankar manthravadi]

Please look and comment http://brahmamic.com/

umashankar

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Re: [Sursound] Simple Software to Play a 6-channel WAV File (Windows)?

[umashankar manthravadi]

Being a low budget man, this has been of considerable interest to me. Does 
ambisonic systems have to be of the same quality as a stereo system? I doubt 
very much. For one thing, a stereo system has to excite the room in which it 
sits. That means power and extended frequency response. The cheapest system I 
tried was two “5.1” speaker  sets, each costing about 10USD. I did not persist 
with it, but was very satisfactory for the money. Two subwoofers too. (even if 
they woofed at about 100 Hz). I have KEF 5 speakers and 50 watt per channel 
eight watt amplifier, and it is rarely stressed.



I think there will be similar tradeoffs in compression, phase errors etc which 
we have really explored



umashankar



Sent from Mail for Windows 10




From: Sursound  on behalf of Marc Lavallée 

Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 6:15:28 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Simple Software to Play a 6-channel WAV File (Windows)?


Just a question: despite possible degradation of the decoded
ambisonics stream (due to phase errors), could it be that our perception
mechanisms (from the ears to the brain) can "fix" some distortions?
Also, what are the frequency ranges affected by phase errors (for
example in a AAC or Opus multi-channel stream) that could induce
perceptual problems? What's the limit: 16, 12, 8 or 4Khz?

To what extent do we have to care about Hi-Fi and High Resolution
when dealing with Ambisonics? This is an important issue for the
acceptance of Ambisonics... Do we need a fusion reactor to enjoy
Ambisonics? ;-)

--
Marc

Le Wed, 25 Oct 2017 14:08:49 +0200
David Pickett  a écrit:

> But I have been thinking about it -- fatal!
>
> If you start off from WXY, which is what I use, and make these into
> 4.0, you have merely done a linear transform (a sophisticated LR-->SD
> relationship). As this is totally lossless, any added phase anomalies
> either before or after the transform, while they may not give the
> same effect, could be significant. All I can say is that I have not
> heard any significant degradation of my recordings when coding them
> into high rate MP4 and playing them over the internet before
> subsequent decoding.
>
> I am not trying to be awkward, just trying to make sense of this!
>
> David
>
> At 13:12 25-10-17, Dave Malham wrote:
>  >I should have said "storing pre-decoded signals in a compressed
>  >format has less potential to be problematic" since phase errors
>  >likely to upset pre-decoded material would probably also cause
>  >problems with stereo which hopefully would have been picked up and
>  >dealt with during testing. I should say here that that's just what
>  >I feel likely to be the case, I can't say that I've actually tested
>  >it.
>  >
>  >  Dave
>  >
>  >On 25 October 2017 at 11:30, David Pickett  wrote:
>  >
>  >> At 09:55 25-10-17, Dave Malham wrote:
>  >>
>  >> >   Just a word of warning, take care using compressed formats
>  >> > like mp4 for
>  >> >storing B format. If the compression used is lossy, this can
>  >> >screw up the decoding since phase errors can result in the sum
>  >> >and difference equations involved producing wrong results. Of
>  >> >course, storing pre-decoded signals
>  >> in
>  >> >a compressed format doesn't suffer from this.
>  >>
>  >> Dave,
>  >>
>  >> I always add add shelf filtering and then decode from B format to
>  >> 4.0 before encoding to MP4. I dont see why there should not also
>  >> be phase problems with encoding 4.0 signals in MP4 (why do you
>  >> say not?); but I have never noticed any.
>  >>
>  >> David
>  >>
>  >> ___
>  >> Sursound mailing list
>  >> Sursound@music.vt.edu
>  >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
>  >> here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>  >>
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >--
>  >
>  >As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.
>  >
>  >These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the
>  >University
>  >
>  >Dave Malham
>  >Honorary Fellow, Department of Music
>  >The University of York
>  >York YO10 5DD
>  >UK
>  >
>  >'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
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Re: [Sursound] ambisonics + video

[umashankar manthravadi]

Try this FB group. You will get lots of help. 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/SpatialAudioVRARMR/

umashankar

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Oliver Larkin
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 4:33 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: [Sursound] ambisonics + video

Hi All,

Is anyone is aware of a good resource that will help me learn about muxing 
video with ambisonic audio? I don’t have much experience with audio for video 
full stop and I am confused about what is possible with different codecs. I 
haven’t been able to find comprehensive info online. I would like to know what 
video formats/containers for both audio and video i can use to distribute video 
+ HOA audio (although knowing about what’s possible for FOA audio would also be 
great). Web based playback is what this is really for, but I would also like to 
know about high quality options for downloads, since VLC 3 does TOA. Not sure 
if this will allow a custom decoder or if it’s just for binaural.

Sorry for a bit of an open ended question, but if anyone has any tips i’d 
really appreciate it.

Thanks!

Oli


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Re: [Sursound] brahma facebook page

[umashankar manthravadi]

I realise. You went to the old page maintained by Nakul Sood, who is no longer 
involved with Brahma microphones.



umashankar



Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10




From: Sursound  on behalf of Marc Lavallée 

Sent: Monday, October 16, 2017 9:45:07 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] brahma facebook page

> On Oct 16, 2017, at 12:08 PM, Courville, Daniel  
> wrote:
>
> Is it this page? https://www.facebook.com/BrahmaAmbisonicMicrophones/
>
> Does not look like a new page.

Here’s the new page:
https://www.facebook.com/ambisonics/ <https://www.facebook.com/ambisonics/>

Umashankar reminded me that I should update ambisonic.xyz to include a player 
with height...
—
Marc

>
> --
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2017 04:34:36 +
>From: umashankar manthravadi 
>To: "sursound@music.vt.edu" 
>Subject: [Sursound] brahma facebook page
>Message-ID:
>
> 
>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>I have just created a facebook page for Brahma microphones  You can find 
> it at Brahma microphones@ambisonics
>
>umashankar
>
>
>
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Re: [Sursound] brahma facebook page

[umashankar manthravadi]

Yes it is. I created it (rather had a friend do it for me) over the last two 
days.



umashankar



Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10




From: Sursound  on behalf of Courville, Daniel 

Sent: Monday, October 16, 2017 9:38:59 PM
To: sursound@music.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [Sursound] brahma facebook page

Is it this page? https://www.facebook.com/BrahmaAmbisonicMicrophones/

Does not look like a new page.

--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2017 04:34:36 +
From: umashankar manthravadi 
To: "sursound@music.vt.edu" 
Subject: [Sursound] brahma facebook page
Message-ID:
 


Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I have just created a facebook page for Brahma microphones  You can find it 
at Brahma microphones@ambisonics

umashankar



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[Sursound] brahma facebook page

[umashankar manthravadi]

I have just created a facebook page for Brahma microphones  You can find it at 
Brahma microphones@ambisonics

umashankar




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Re: [Sursound] Brahma microphones

[umashankar manthravadi]

I plan to set up a facebook page with details of the microphones offered. I 
have some ready, and will generally make them up on order with a fifteen day 
lead time. I have some first order microphone with 14 mm capsules with a DIN 12 
connector (compatible with ambeo) a splitter to four channels and 4 channel 
snake cables with DIN 12 connectors of various lengths (made to order). I am 
working on shock mounts and basket windshields. In the meantime, you can always 
write to me direct and I will give you prices, and create a Paypal invoice for 
an order. The first order microphone with 14 mm capsules will cost 750 usd + 
shipping. It comes with the splitter cable. Extension cables will be extra.

(sounds too much like a commercial, and I always think of alice in wonderland – 
washing extra!)



umashankar



Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10




From: Sursound  on behalf of Bearcat Şándor 

Sent: Monday, October 2, 2017 11:11:08 PM
To: sursound
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Brahma microphones

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017, 00:46 umashankar manthravadi 
wrote:

>
> Just to let everyone know, I have restarted making Brahma microphones in
> Bangalore.
>

Congratulations Umashankar! I look forwards to your success.
--

Bearcat M. Şándor, CEO
Feline Soul Systems LLC
Voice: 872.CAT.SOUL (872.228.7685)
Fax: 406.235.7070
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[Sursound] Brahma microphones

[umashankar manthravadi]

Just to let everyone know, I have restarted making Brahma microphones in 
Bangalore. I have sold about ten Brahma in Zoom microphones so far, and the 
stand alone microphones, with 14 mm capsules and DIN12 termination, are ready, 
along with cables. I will create a facebook page for Brahma microphones soon. 
All I can say is I am very happy with the quality of the new microphones, far 
happier than before.

umashankar
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Re: [Sursound] Multiple ambisonic microphone array?

[umashankar manthravadi]

I thought of doing some thing like that = two Brahma first order microphones 
feeding into a Zoom F8. I proposed the idea to Angelo Farina who wrote back 
saying they had tried ot, but it was not satisfactory.

umashankar

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Matthew Barnard
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2017 5:33 PM
To: Sursound@music.vt.edu
Subject: [Sursound] Multiple ambisonic microphone array?

Hi All,



Has anyone had any experience of utilising multiple ambisonic microphones in a 
spaced array for a recording?



I’m looking for any examples (and to hear of pitfalls) in prep for a potential 
project.



Thanks

Matt



Dr. Matt Barnard

University of Hull





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Re: [Sursound] [allowed] Re: Cellphone tetrahedral

[umashankar manthravadi]

I ordered one. There was a link to the purchase page on Facebook’s AR/VR/MR 
group

umashankar

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Gerard Lardner
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 3:28 AM
To: sursound@music.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [Sursound] [allowed] Re: Cellphone tetrahedral

The website does seem to be evolving, with the English pages catching up
on the Chinese pages after a few days. There's now an English pre-order
page on http://yun.twirlingvr.com/index.php/home/Lite/lite-en - odd, as
most of the English pages are on http://yun*-en*.twirlingvr.com

On 21/08/2017 12:37, Marc Lavallée wrote:
> I created an account, but the SDKs are not available without a license
> (linked to the account I suppose). And the link to the Linux SDK is a
> blank page...
> --
> Marc
>
>
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Re: [Sursound] Cellphone tetrahedral

[umashankar manthravadi]

I too have created an account, but I think I will pay them 89 dollars and buy 
one. It looks like a four channel mic preamp plus a-d direct to a USB 
connector. I should be able to record to a desktop of laptop and use X volver, 
Brahmavolver or VVencode to produce B format.

I am broke, but this is sacrifice for science.

umashankar

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Marc Lavallée
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 5:08 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Cellphone tetrahedral


I created an account, but the SDKs are not available without a license
(linked to the account I suppose). And the link to the Linux SDK is a
blank page...
--
Marc


Le Mon, 21 Aug 2017 11:42:47 +0100
Paul Hodges  a écrit:

> --On 18 August 2017 08:04 -0700 mgra...@mstvp.com wrote:
>
> > Since it's USB it must be Android-only for the moment.
>
> I have a lightning to microUSB adapter lying on my desk.
>
> Going through their website I find a picture of it connected to a
> laptop:
>
> 
>
> Going further (and navigating account creation and login in Chinese) I
> found a page with download links for the Capture SDK for Windows, Mac,
> Linux, Android, and iOS:
>
> 
>
> Capture, in case you can't get to that without a login:
>
> 
>
> Paul
>

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Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)

[umashankar manthravadi]

Thank you. I had been looking for years for any research on head movement and 
sound localization. I know papers for visual cues and head movement and had 
assumed that similar effects should exist for sound. I am not an academic.

umashankar

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: John Merchant
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 8:29 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)

Hmm, looks like the server removes any attachments.

Try this:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-vV4Aoij_dmZE9iNGcxVGFzdG8/view?usp=sharing


From: Sursound  on behalf of John Merchant 

Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 9:56 AM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)

If anyone is interested, here's a copy of the paper Gus mentioned.


From: Sursound  on behalf of Augustine Leudar 

Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 7:05 AM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)

My favorite experiment/paper on this subject, which although old, is still
relevant, is "The role of head movements and vestibular and visual cues in
sound localization " Wallach 1940 - I can't seem to find it anywhere though
- if anyone has it and can post a PDF of it it would be very much
appreciated.

On 17 August 2017 at 09:42, Peter Lennox  wrote:

> The motion bounce illusion, where application of an audible transient
> alters the visual conclusion, from two circles passing through each other,
> to a perception of them 'bouncing' off each other, is a good example of
> audio altering visual perception.
>
> it would be simplistic to say that one sense 'dominates' the other, since
> the real point lies in the comparative robustness of cues -the sense with
> the best signal-to-noise ratio is likely to dominate in particular
> instances.
>
> Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
>
> Senior Lecturer in Perception
>
> College of Arts, Humanities and Education
>
> School of Arts
>
>
>
> e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk
>
> t: 01332 593155
>
>
>
> https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
>
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
>
>
>
> University of Derby,
> Kedleston Road,
> Derby,
> DE22 1GB, UK
>
> 
> From: Sursound  on behalf of Augustine
> Leudar 
> Sent: 16 August 2017 22:14:46
> To: Surround Sound discussion group
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
>
> This is true too Dave - I know of one audio cue in particular (to do with a
> football bouncing off a wall) that can alter the way you see the way the
> ball moves - Ill have to dig it out. It really sucks being a sound artist
> sometimes ! oh so you're an audio guy What's a sound artist ? What like
> a sound engineer ? or a sound designer ? oooh a jumped up button pusher
> with delusions of grandeur
>
> On 16 August 2017 at 20:06, Dave Malham  wrote:
>
> > I, too, agree with Augustine. A point though that I would make, on the
> side
> > so to speak, is, do not assume that visual cues always override audio
> ones.
> > It is quite common for visual arts people to assume that the visual
> > overrules everything else but, although not as common, audio perceptions
> > can override visual ones at times. Anyway, good luck with your phd.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> > On 16 August 2017 at 15:29, Peter Lennox  wrote:
> >
> > > Wot he said...
> > >
> > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> > > School of Arts
> > >
> > > e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk
> > > t: 01332 593155
> > >
> > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > >
> > > University of Derby,
> > > Kedleston Road,
> > > Derby,
> > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> > > Augustine Leudar
> > > Sent: 16 August 2017 15:25
> > > To: Surround Sound discussion group 
> > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > >
> > > As you probably know visual and other cognitive cues often override
> audio
> > > cues (see wallachs amazing cylinder experiment from 1940). I like to
> play
> > > with peoples minds in my installations and create illusions with sound
> -
> > > but these can be massively aided by the careful manipulation of
> cognitive
> > > and visual cues - for me for example the choice of location and how it
> > > looks is just as much a compositional decision as the choice of sounds,
> > > every sensory experience people have from the sight of a speaker, to
> the
> > > smell of the environment will have an associated meaning for listeners
> > and
> > > effect how they hear things, and how believable the world you 

Re: [Sursound] Fwd: Ambisonics microphone study

[umashankar manthravadi]

Dear paul

This is what I get

MEMS Soundfield Microphone - Qualitative Assessment
The form MEMS Soundfield Microphone - Qualitative Assessment is no longer 
accepting responses.
Try contacting the owner of the form if you think this is a mistake.

umashankar

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Paul Doornbusch
Sent: Friday, August 4, 2017 9:52 AM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: [Sursound] Fwd: Ambisonics microphone study

FYI…

> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: Charlie Mydlarz mailto:cmydl...@gmail.com>>
> Subject: Ambisonics microphone study
> Date: 2017 July 30 at 7:38:51 PM GMT-4
>
>
> Our intrepid research team would really appreciate it if you could take five 
> easy minutes to complete a short survey regarding an Ambisonic mic built by 
> NYU and Cooper Union.
>
> The survey is at the following link: https://goo.gl/forms/pxIbrfh7TKMnWKPy2 
> 
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Charlie Mydlarz
>


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Re: [Sursound] brahma revived

[umashankar manthravadi]

This second order microphone will not be expensive. It is only eight channels 
rather than nine, but I believe this is an acceptable compromise. I will use 
the Zoom F8 to record. I am visiting Parma because Angelo intends developing a 
calibration system which will output nine channels after processing.

You can imagine a tetrahedron surrounded (on the horizontal plane) by four 
capsules at 0, 90,180 and 270 degrees. That is basically the array design. I 
believe the sphear design is different.

umashankar

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Stefan Schreiber<mailto:st...@mail.telepac.pt>
Sent: Monday, May 8, 2017 7:15 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] brahma revived

umashankar manthravadi wrote:

>I forgot to mention I will carry a second order microphone to Parma where I am 
>visiting Angelo Farina and his department from June 19 to 21st.
>
>umashankar
>
>

Very interesting for VR audio capture - but I suppose they/we would need
way more information. (Even some basic info seems to miss.)

There is currently no "native" HOA mike available - with the exception
of the (expensive) eigenmike.


umash
https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~nando/publications/sphear.pdf

Is this related somehow?  (At least in some "same field" sense I guess...)

Best,

Stefan




>Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>
>From: umashankar manthravadi<mailto:umasha...@hotmail.com>
>Sent: Monday, May 8, 2017 7:25 AM
>To: sursound@music.vt.edu<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
>Subject: [Sursound] brahma revived
>
>After a six month hiatus, I am restarting the manufacture of Brahma 
>microphones. The first is Brahma-in-zoom. I should have a few ready, but 
>generally I will make on order, Later this year, I will build redesigned 
>standalone Brahma microphones, including second order microphones. I plan to 
>keep things simple; money through bank transfer or paypal, and a web page with 
>photographs and details of the new designs.
>
>umashankar
>
>Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
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Re: [Sursound] brahma revived

[umashankar manthravadi]

I forgot to mention I will carry a second order microphone to Parma where I am 
visiting Angelo Farina and his department from June 19 to 21st.

umashankar

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: umashankar manthravadi<mailto:umasha...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, May 8, 2017 7:25 AM
To: sursound@music.vt.edu<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
Subject: [Sursound] brahma revived

After a six month hiatus, I am restarting the manufacture of Brahma 
microphones. The first is Brahma-in-zoom. I should have a few ready, but 
generally I will make on order, Later this year, I will build redesigned 
standalone Brahma microphones, including second order microphones. I plan to 
keep things simple; money through bank transfer or paypal, and a web page with 
photographs and details of the new designs.

umashankar

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

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[Sursound] brahma revived

[umashankar manthravadi]

After a six month hiatus, I am restarting the manufacture of Brahma 
microphones. The first is Brahma-in-zoom. I should have a few ready, but 
generally I will make on order, Later this year, I will build redesigned 
standalone Brahma microphones, including second order microphones. I plan to 
keep things simple; money through bank transfer or paypal, and a web page with 
photographs and details of the new designs.

umashankar

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Re: [Sursound] Software plugin for SPS200

[umashankar manthravadi]

two programs of angelo farina's team are also worth looking at. Brahmavolver is 
only 16 bit, but it is the only standalone AtoB convertor I know of. There is 
also Xvolver, a VST program which does not have this limitation. Both require a 
matrix of IRs produced during calibration.


I am particularly interested in X-volver it does not have the four input 
limitation of VVencode. I am about to start the process of producing 
calibration files for an eight channel second order microphone with help from 
Angelo, and it will probably work with X-volver.


As an aside, I have just restarted the making of Brahma microphones. They will 
be made in Bangalore; I will start with Brahma in Zoom, with the Brahma 
microphone built into the recorder. I will also sell modified Zoom along with 
unbalanced Brahma microphones, both 14 mm and 25 mm, the same microphones with 
Phantom power built in, a phantom module which connects to the unbalanced 
microphones, and of course the second order microphone, outputting to DB 25 
Tascam format.


Umashankar



From: Sursound  on behalf of Paul Hodges 

Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 4:42 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Software plugin for SPS200

--On 20 March 2017 11:03 +0100 Trond Lossius 
wrote:

> SPS200SurroundZone.component - 24 Feb 2010
> SPS200SurroundZoneVSTi.vst - 01 Oct 2009

At the very least you should get SurroundZone 2 (at the links that John
gave).  (You're on a Mac, so you won't be affected by this: but Windows
users should note that by default the installer puts the 32 and 64 bit
versions into the 64 and 32 bit VST directories respectively!)

You should also be aware that the SPS200 is not individually
calibrated, so the result varies according to the consistency of the
capsules on your specific mic.  The good folk at Core Sound offer a
calibration service for the SPS200, giving you files that can be used
in the same software as their TetraMic calibration files - such as
VVMic, VVTetraVST and VVAudio's latest VST, VVEncode (which also
handles the calibration files for the Brahma).  I shall shortly be
preparing some comparisons of SPS200 recordings processed using
SurroundZone2 and VVEncode, alongside recordings made simultaneously
with a TetraMic.

Paul

--
Paul Hodges

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Sursound Info Page - Virginia 
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List Sursound is provided for both researchers and producers of multichannel 
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[Sursound] emanuele's Brahma-in-Zoom how to

[umashankar manthravadi]

Is there a problem posting links. Emanuele Constantini is having problems, so I 
am trying to.

http://www.ecsound.net/pages/projects/tech_notes/engnotes.html

umashankar



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Re: [Sursound] Professor I Lirpa Quad Matrix

[umashankar manthravadi]

My favourite one is Lirpa 5KG, especially the oscilloscope screen photos. There 
was also a turntable that played both sides of the record at once, but I 
digress.

umashankar

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Eero Aro
Sent: Friday, January 6, 2017 7:06 PM
To: sursound@music.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Professor I Lirpa Quad Matrix

Oh, zero group-delay wickers are rare as hen's teeth these days...

But I am certain that professor Lirpa's VDRS, Vehicular Disc Reproduction
System, that solved almost all vinyl disc player problems, would have
improved matrixed surround sound on vinyl discs as well, if it would not
have been forgotten when digital audio started to take over:

http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Audio/70s/Audio-1978-04.pdf

Page 71 ->

Eero

6.1.2017, 14:22, Dave Malham wrote:
> :-) :-) :-)

>> Looks good. I'm off to the forest now to find some phase coherent twigs
>> and zero group-delay wicker.Wish me luck ;-) :-)
>> Andrew
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Re: [Sursound] [allowed] brahma

[umashankar manthravadi]

I can send you a bunch, as front and rear IR sets. These have been processed, 
but I would like to see your results and see how they compare. I can send you 
the result filtermatrixes too, of course

umashankar

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: David McGriffy<mailto:da...@mcgriffy.com>
Sent: Friday, January 6, 2017 7:25 AM
To: Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] [allowed] brahma

I recently developed a MatLab script to create calibrations based on
Angelo's method.  Set up equations for each measurement's expected results,
find the LMS solution in each frequency bin, then build the resulting
filter matrix.  A little engineering around the low and high frequencies
and it seems to work pretty well.

I'd also like to point out that VVEncode (alas not VVTetraVST or VVMic)
will process anyone's 4x4 matrix of filters if they are put in wav files
like Angelo and Brahma do.  I also have matrix calibration processing in my
command line tool and I've done it in pure MatLab.  Contact me if you want
to try this and have any questions.

I mention all this mostly because I'd be interesting in processing anyone's
custom measurements.  For me this is test data for my scripts.  So far I've
only run data out of one lab and with one type of
excitation/reference/etc.  I'd like to make sure I'm not dependent on those
things.  And I can return a working calibration, I hope.

David
VVAudio

On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano <
na...@ccrma.stanford.edu> wrote:

> On 01/05/2017 02:19 AM, umashankar manthravadi wrote:
>
>> I use an earthworks calibration microphone, but any good quality six mm
>> Omni microphone will be okay. Noise is not important, but flat frequency
>> response is. You could use a tetramic and take the W signal after
>> processing, but it might be overcomplicating things. Coaxial speakers sound
>> ideal, but many of them have problems. A small five inch full range, or 5
>> inch plus tweeter mounted close together, is best. I use an Adam 5 after
>> first sealing off the bass port. Choice of microphone is more important
>> than the speaker.
>>
>
> Indeed. I have an (if memory serves) emm6 "reference microphone" which is
> not very expensive but comes with its own calibration curve. Flatness is
> important as that will define how true is the frequency response of the
> calibration. For the excitation I use a single driver small speaker, so far
> it has been fine. I record is our rather small concert hall (the Stage) and
> I managed to get about 5 mSecs of useful data before the first reflection
> arrives. That seems to be enough. Completely agree with sealing the bass
> port if you have one like that, that's what Eric Benjamin recommended doing.
>
> I'll probably be offline for a few days, sorry (vacation, no internet,
> bliss)...
> Good luck!
> -- Fernando
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows 10
>>
>> From: Bo-Erik Sandholm<mailto:bosses...@gmail.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, January 5, 2017 3:31 PM
>> To: sursound<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] [allowed] brahma
>>
>> To get a good calibration, I expect I will need at least one
>> known/reference source or sensor?
>>
>> The reference for me will probably be my coresound Tetramic.
>>
>> I will probably use Kef eggs as speakers as they are coaxial transducers.
>> Only at low frequency will The port be offerter.
>>
>> Have I understood The basics?
>> I will probably measure outside a calibration Day orborrow a anechoic room
>> at swedish radio.
>>
>> Bo-Erik
>>
>> Den 5 jan. 2017 11:53 fm skrev "umashankar manthravadi" <
>> umasha...@hotmail.com>:
>>
>> Dear fernando
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I forwarded your link to marc Lavallée when you first posted them. My
>>> intent is that we should have multiple compatible systems for
>>> calibrating A
>>> format mics
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Fernando Lopez-Lezcano<mailto:na...@ccrma.stanford.edu>
>>> Sent: 05 January 2017 00:28
>>> To: Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>;
>>> glard...@iol.ie<mailto:glard...@iol.ie>
>>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] [allowed] brahma
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 01/02/2017 09:59 PM, Bo-Erik Sandholm wrote:
>>>
>>>> Good luck in your contin

Re: [Sursound] [allowed] brahma

[umashankar manthravadi]

I use an earthworks calibration microphone, but any good quality six mm Omni 
microphone will be okay. Noise is not important, but flat frequency response 
is. You could use a tetramic and take the W signal after processing, but it 
might be overcomplicating things. Coaxial speakers sound ideal, but many of 
them have problems. A small five inch full range, or 5 inch plus tweeter 
mounted close together, is best. I use an Adam 5 after first sealing off the 
bass port. Choice of microphone is more important than the speaker.

umashankar

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Bo-Erik Sandholm<mailto:bosses...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 5, 2017 3:31 PM
To: sursound<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] [allowed] brahma

To get a good calibration, I expect I will need at least one
known/reference source or sensor?

The reference for me will probably be my coresound Tetramic.

I will probably use Kef eggs as speakers as they are coaxial transducers.
Only at low frequency will The port be offerter.

Have I understood The basics?
I will probably measure outside a calibration Day orborrow a anechoic room
at swedish radio.

Bo-Erik

Den 5 jan. 2017 11:53 fm skrev "umashankar manthravadi" <
umasha...@hotmail.com>:

> Dear fernando
>
>
>
> I forwarded your link to marc Lavallée when you first posted them. My
> intent is that we should have multiple compatible systems for calibrating A
> format mics
>
>
>
> Sent from my Windows 10 phone
>
>
>
> From: Fernando Lopez-Lezcano<mailto:na...@ccrma.stanford.edu>
> Sent: 05 January 2017 00:28
> To: Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>;
> glard...@iol.ie<mailto:glard...@iol.ie>
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] [allowed] brahma
>
>
>
> On 01/02/2017 09:59 PM, Bo-Erik Sandholm wrote:
> > Good luck in your continued effekt.
> >
> > By the way, i have accuired one of your Tetra mic 3d shapeway for 14 mm
> > capsules.
> > I have not yet assembler it.
> > I Wonder is there any software package and description on How to create
> > calibration files for The mic?
> > I will probably have The possibility to get temporary access to a
> anechoic
> > room.
>
> Hi Bo-Erik,
> You could take a look at my project here (I posted about this a while
> back):
>
> https://cm-gitlab.stanford.edu/ambisonics/SpHEAR/
> (there is mailing list with 0 posts so far, ha ha..)
>
> See paper here (been working on this for over a year):
> https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~nando/publications/sphear.pdf
>
> The project includes free software (open source, GPL) that runs in
> Matlab and derives a calibration matrix (4x4 matrix of FIR filters) that
> can be used directly with TetraProc (by Fons Adriansen) - or any other
> software that can run the filters.
>
> Just a few days ago I _finally_ managed to get the software into
> somewhat usable shape in that I think (and I'm pretty much wrong every
> time I say this, so...) it is working correctly. The calibration relies
> on having 16 measurements (could be 8) in the horizontal plane around
> the Ambisonics microphone plus one more of a calibration microphone in
> the same exact location. Aliki is used to capture the IRs and edit (trim
> and window) them. DRC (Digital Room Correction) is used to equalize the
> excitation speaker. Then the software I wrote processes those IRs and
> outputs a 4x4 matrix of filters. Many parameters can be tuned. I'll post
> a couple of pictures later...
>
> Documentation (surprise!) is mostly lacking. I hope to remedy that
> somewhat soon (at least a list of the sequence of octave function calls
> you need to get the job done).
>
> My latest prototype with 10mm capsules was hastily measured before I
> left for "vacation" and the plotted results of the calibration are
> looking good. A re-calibration with the latest software of my first
> prototype which captured a full concert also sounds fairly decent.
>
> Anyway,
> Good luck!
> -- Fernando
>
>
>
> > In worst case i Will use the generic calibration from sennheiser :-)
> >
> > The mechanical size of The tetraeder is about right.
> > Bo-Erik
> >
> >
> >
> > Den 2 jan. 2017 9:01 em skrev "Gerard Lardner" :
> >
> >> Sorry to hear of the falling-out. I have had some issues with the
> >> build-quality of my Brahma, which was made by Embrace Video, but
> >> nevertheless it remains my 'go-to' mic for choral recording.
> >>
> >> With best wishes for 2017, and for your ongoing Ambisonic microphone
> >> projects,
> >>
> >> Gerard
> >>
>

Re: [Sursound] [allowed] brahma

[umashankar manthravadi]

Dear fernando



I forwarded your link to marc Lavallée when you first posted them. My intent is 
that we should have multiple compatible systems for calibrating A format mics



Sent from my Windows 10 phone



From: Fernando Lopez-Lezcano<mailto:na...@ccrma.stanford.edu>
Sent: 05 January 2017 00:28
To: Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>; 
glard...@iol.ie<mailto:glard...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] [allowed] brahma



On 01/02/2017 09:59 PM, Bo-Erik Sandholm wrote:
> Good luck in your continued effekt.
>
> By the way, i have accuired one of your Tetra mic 3d shapeway for 14 mm
> capsules.
> I have not yet assembler it.
> I Wonder is there any software package and description on How to create
> calibration files for The mic?
> I will probably have The possibility to get temporary access to a anechoic
> room.

Hi Bo-Erik,
You could take a look at my project here (I posted about this a while back):

https://cm-gitlab.stanford.edu/ambisonics/SpHEAR/
(there is mailing list with 0 posts so far, ha ha..)

See paper here (been working on this for over a year):
https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~nando/publications/sphear.pdf

The project includes free software (open source, GPL) that runs in
Matlab and derives a calibration matrix (4x4 matrix of FIR filters) that
can be used directly with TetraProc (by Fons Adriansen) - or any other
software that can run the filters.

Just a few days ago I _finally_ managed to get the software into
somewhat usable shape in that I think (and I'm pretty much wrong every
time I say this, so...) it is working correctly. The calibration relies
on having 16 measurements (could be 8) in the horizontal plane around
the Ambisonics microphone plus one more of a calibration microphone in
the same exact location. Aliki is used to capture the IRs and edit (trim
and window) them. DRC (Digital Room Correction) is used to equalize the
excitation speaker. Then the software I wrote processes those IRs and
outputs a 4x4 matrix of filters. Many parameters can be tuned. I'll post
a couple of pictures later...

Documentation (surprise!) is mostly lacking. I hope to remedy that
somewhat soon (at least a list of the sequence of octave function calls
you need to get the job done).

My latest prototype with 10mm capsules was hastily measured before I
left for "vacation" and the plotted results of the calibration are
looking good. A re-calibration with the latest software of my first
prototype which captured a full concert also sounds fairly decent.

Anyway,
Good luck!
-- Fernando



> In worst case i Will use the generic calibration from sennheiser :-)
>
> The mechanical size of The tetraeder is about right.
> Bo-Erik
>
>
>
> Den 2 jan. 2017 9:01 em skrev "Gerard Lardner" :
>
>> Sorry to hear of the falling-out. I have had some issues with the
>> build-quality of my Brahma, which was made by Embrace Video, but
>> nevertheless it remains my 'go-to' mic for choral recording.
>>
>> With best wishes for 2017, and for your ongoing Ambisonic microphone
>> projects,
>>
>> Gerard
>>
>>
>> On 02/01/2017 06:57, umashankar manthravadi wrote:
>>
>>> This is just an announcement that Nakul Sood and Embrace video will no
>>> longer be manufacturing or selling Brahma ambisonic microphones. Our very
>>> informal arrangement has come to an end as Nakul Sood demanded 1)I hand
>>> over complete technology and manufacturing protocols, 2) sign a
>>> non-disclosure agreement and 3) sign a non-compete agreement. (there were
>>> other demands) I have always worked on Brahma as a shared project, with
>>> help from many people and I have no desire to sign a non-disclosure
>>> agreement.
>>>
>>> I had made atleast 20 Brahma microphones before this project began, and I
>>> will continue to make one off brahmas as demanded (I am currently making
>>> five second order microphones for Angelo Farina) and I am setting up fairly
>>> high tech processes in Bangalore where I now live (laser cut microphone
>>> bodies!)
>>>
>>> Umashankar
>>>
>>>
>> -- next part --
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>> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>>
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Re: [Sursound] [allowed] brahma

[umashankar manthravadi]

Don't call it tetramic. It will upset len Moskowitz.
I use a process developed by Angelo Farina's team, using Matlab scripts. 
Initially, I was given permission only to use it, but not share it, but a few 
months ago, Angelo said I can forward the scripts to Marc Lavallee, who is 
modifying them to run on Octave. Octave is a free program, and these scripts 
will be released to public, so it should be possible for anyone who builds a 
tetrahedral microphone to calibrate it and generate filtermatrix files. These 
files can be used with VVEncode (purchased) or X-volver (free) to produce B 
format files.
In the meantime, I am willing to create filtermatrix files for anyone who wants 
to do their own measurements. (Fons will also do it, but mostly he does it for 
Linux)
You do not need an anechoic chamber. You need a space with the first reflection 
atleast 2.5 metres away. A room with a five meter high ceiling and dimensions 
of 7.5 meters by 5 meters will be adequate. You can use Angelo's inverse sine 
sweep. I will describe my process in detail if you wish, but I am very happy 
with the imaging I am getting with Brahma microphones. The tetrahedral 
structure printed by Shapeways is very accurate, and that helps too.

Umashankar
Don't use sennheiser's generic filters. Their capsules are also 14 mm, but they 
are spaced much further apart (mine are almost at the theoretical minimum). At 
the AES, the Sennheiser booth was next to Brahma, and many people compared the 
imaging of the two.

Umashankar

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Bo-Erik Sandholm<mailto:bosses...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 3, 2017 11:29 AM
To: sursound<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>; 
glard...@iol.ie<mailto:glard...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] [allowed] brahma

Good luck in your continued effekt.

By the way, i have accuired one of your Tetra mic 3d shapeway for 14 mm
capsules.
I have not yet assembler it.
I Wonder is there any software package and description on How to create
calibration files for The mic?
I will probably have The possibility to get temporary access to a anechoic
room.
In worst case i Will use the generic calibration from sennheiser :-)

The mechanical size of The tetraeder is about right.
Bo-Erik



Den 2 jan. 2017 9:01 em skrev "Gerard Lardner" :

> Sorry to hear of the falling-out. I have had some issues with the
> build-quality of my Brahma, which was made by Embrace Video, but
> nevertheless it remains my 'go-to' mic for choral recording.
>
> With best wishes for 2017, and for your ongoing Ambisonic microphone
> projects,
>
> Gerard
>
>
> On 02/01/2017 06:57, umashankar manthravadi wrote:
>
>> This is just an announcement that Nakul Sood and Embrace video will no
>> longer be manufacturing or selling Brahma ambisonic microphones. Our very
>> informal arrangement has come to an end as Nakul Sood demanded 1)I hand
>> over complete technology and manufacturing protocols, 2) sign a
>> non-disclosure agreement and 3) sign a non-compete agreement. (there were
>> other demands) I have always worked on Brahma as a shared project, with
>> help from many people and I have no desire to sign a non-disclosure
>> agreement.
>>
>> I had made atleast 20 Brahma microphones before this project began, and I
>> will continue to make one off brahmas as demanded (I am currently making
>> five second order microphones for Angelo Farina) and I am setting up fairly
>> high tech processes in Bangalore where I now live (laser cut microphone
>> bodies!)
>>
>> Umashankar
>>
>>
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[Sursound] brahma

[umashankar manthravadi]

This is just an announcement that Nakul Sood and Embrace video will no longer 
be manufacturing or selling Brahma ambisonic microphones. Our very informal 
arrangement has come to an end as Nakul Sood demanded 1)I hand over complete 
technology and manufacturing protocols, 2) sign a non-disclosure agreement and 
3) sign a non-compete agreement. (there were other demands) I have always 
worked on Brahma as a shared project, with help from many people and I have no 
desire to sign a non-disclosure agreement.

I had made atleast 20 Brahma microphones before this project began, and I will 
continue to make one off brahmas as demanded (I am currently making five second 
order microphones for Angelo Farina) and I am setting up fairly high tech 
processes in Bangalore where I now live (laser cut microphone bodies!)

Umashankar

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

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Re: [Sursound] Stand alone recorder with built-in mics

[umashankar manthravadi]

no reason it should not work. worst that can happen is you might have to get it 
calibrated


umashankar



From: Sursound  on behalf of Jörn Nettingsmeier 

Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2016 7:15 PM
To: sursound@music.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Stand alone recorder with built-in mics

On 10/27/2016 03:27 AM, Steven Boardman wrote:
> More product folks.
> Nothing to do with me, but just came up on the radar
>
> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/twirling720-vr-audio-recorder#/

Love the name. Should be twice as good as 360. Then again, 1440 would be
even better. Anyone?

But let's ease off on those guys, they are among the few who actually
post specs and a concept that might even work, because people have been
testing it since the 70s :-D Neat packaging.


--
Jörn Nettingsmeier
De Rijpgracht 8, 1055VR Amsterdam, Nederland
Tel. +49 177 7937487

Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio), Tonmeister VDT
http://stackingdwarves.net
stackingdwarves.net...
stackingdwarves.net
stackingdwarves.net.because the shoulders of giants are getting crowded. 
this is the home domain of the web entity formerly known as 
nettings_AT_folkwang ...



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Sursound Info Page - Virginia 
Tech
mail.music.vt.edu
List Sursound is provided for both researchers and producers of multichannel 
audio as a place to exchange ideas. Manufacturers are welcome to join - 
announcements of ...



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Re: [Sursound] Bizarre

[umashankar manthravadi]

And the cardiod mems are actually two omnis and some dsp !



umashankar



Sent from Mail for Windows 10



From: Marc Lavallée
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2016 7:51 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Bizarre



On Sun, 30 Oct 2016 00:34:26 +0100
Steven Boardman  wrote:
> Yes of course,  and as the sphere gets bigger the high frequency
> accuracy gets worse.
> If you look at the mems with the pcb they are on,  they look pretty
> big. For those that are interested, Harmon now make cardiod mems.
> They won't release spec though, unless one puts in a massive order. I
> already enquired about this chicken and egg. Unfortunately no go,
> unless i buy thousands, and sign NDA.

Interesting:
http://embedded.harman.com/directional-mems-microphones.html
But those cardoid mems are not small...

--
Marc

>
> Steve
>
> On 29 Oct 2016 20:04, "Stefan Schreiber" 
> wrote:
>
> Marc Lavallée wrote:
>
> Here’s the link to the first “article":
> > https://www.arkamys.com/ambisonic-microphone-ep01/ <
> > https://www.arkamys.com/ambisonic-microphone-ep01/>
> >
> >
>
> Just to remember some former discussion (about Nokia's Ozo mike):
>
> The MEMS capsules mounted on some sphere will show some cardioid
> response at higher frequencies, but not at LF.
>
> To judge the results anybody can compare  this "CE mike" with some
> "real mike" later...
>
> Best,
>
> Stefan
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 28, 2016, at 11:33 AM, Steven Boardman
> 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> They have an article (a first installment that doesn't say much)
> >> on their site too. Its how to build an ambisonic mic for less than
> >> $99, using 4 omni
> >> mems capsules??
> >>
> >> Zokm already have done an update to the H2n that allows horizontal
> >> ambisonics,  but that has 5 mics built in.  I take mine with me
> >> everywhere.
> >> It isn't great but extremely handy and light.  Got it so cheap
> >> that I'm not
> >> so bothered when i accidentally drop it either...
> >>
> >> Steve
> >>
> >> On 28 Oct 2016 16:17, "Karl Sadler"  wrote:
> >>
> >> cor! terrible advert! I don't know what I'm supposed to learn from
> >> that! love the idea of having something really mobile though. I
> >> had a dream a couple of days ago that Zoom had made a new
> >> ambisonic mic for my Zoom H6.
> >>
> >> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 4:12 PM Steven Boardman <
> >> boardroomout...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Another mobile ambisonic solution, is this for real?
> >>>
> >>> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pGZMZoRARGI&feature=youtu.be
> >>>
> >>> The claims just go on...
> >>>
> >>> Steve
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> ___
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Re: [Sursound] leftover xmas ornaments?

[umashankar manthravadi]

dear bo-erik
 
will send you the photos and the stl but I need an email address. mail to the 
address I have for you are bouncing.
 
umashankar
 
> From: bosses...@gmail.com
> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2016 10:58:22 +0200
> To: sursound@music.vt.edu
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] leftover xmas ornaments?
> 
> Please Umashankar, send the STL file to me, or the link to the file on mic
> builders.
> 
> I am a member there but have not read actively for a time.
> 
> Do you have a tip on how to do a simple selection of capsules for a
> tetrabuild.
> 
> I have had 10 TSB140 capsules on my shelf for many years now, i even
> ordered a printout of part of your tsb140 tetra holder.
> 
> I would like to finish my rebuild of my H2 even if I have a tetramic and
> tascam dr-680 that I use.
> 
> Bo-Erik
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Re: [Sursound] leftover xmas ornaments?

[umashankar manthravadi]

Dear Fernando

Some months ago I had figured out how to use my very low cost 3 d printer for 
printing (in two parts) the tetrahedral holder for 14 mm capsules. It is about 
the smallest structure you can make for TSB 140s. I had posted pictures and an 
STL file on micbuilders but there had been no interest. Will you take a look, 
or would you like me to send them to you ?

umashankar

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Fernando Lopez-Lezcano
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 1:25 AM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: [Sursound] leftover xmas ornaments?

Hi all,

I've been working on this project since November 2015, and at the time I
thought I would be done by Christmas, hence the subject line... (I was
very naive). The main motivation of the project was to have easy to
build and cheap microphone arrays for my students to use in class (@
CCRMA, Stanford)...

So, you can choose what you can use this for: Ambisonics themed Xmas
tree ornaments, 3d puzzles of platonic solids, big earrings for your
loved ones or, perhaps, microphone arrays.

I've been working on designs that are 3D printable as flat pieces on
cheap or medium priced printers and are assembled and glued together
like 3d puzzles, starting with a regular tetrahedral first order
microphone and then moving on to Eric Benjamin and Aaron Heller's
Octathingy (8 capsules) and a few more "platonic solid" designs (12 and
20 capsules, these last just to test the concept of even bigger 3d
puzzles - it works).

All models are written in Openscad (a 3d modeling programming language),
with most of the dimensions being parametric - the models are, after
all, just software. I spent a couple of weeks doing plain old geometry
on paper to try to get everything to fit just right...

I wrote a paper on the progress of the project so far for AES SFC (which
I regretfully was unable to attend), you can find it for now in my web
page - jump to the publications link[*]. I have a first working
prototype (calibration and measurements in the paper), I'm currently
working on two more and looking forward to testing the 8 capsule design.

A lot of work ahead (coding and hardware design, documentation, etc).
This turned out of be a black hole for any time I can throw at it.
Contributions welcome...

GPL Openscad code and Creative Commons licensed 3D models are available
here:

https://cm-gitlab.stanford.edu/ambisonics/SpHEAR/

(there is also a low volume mailing list available, so far 0 messages :-)

You can also find a Kicad PCB design for the phantom power interface for
each capsule (they fit into the body of the latest design) and the
preliminary calibration software (GPL, written in Octave) for the
tetrahedral design. But of course everything needs better documentation.
Take a look, I included a few more pictures...

If you are tempted to build one be forewarned that it is a LOT of work :-)

Many in this list helped a lot (you know who you are, thanks!!), I would
not have gotten this far by walking alone.

Enjoy!
-- Fernando

[*] https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~nando/

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Re: [Sursound] New FOA recorder

[umashankar manthravadi]

My eight channel microphone is meant to be  2nd order with height. I know that 
needs nine  channels but angelo farina has told me it will be possible to 
create a filter matrix so the 8channels of A format can be processed into 9 
channels of B format.
The reason for eight channels was of course recorder availability. F8 can do 10 
channels if you connect an adaptor but I am not sure those two channels will be 
an exact match for the other eight channels. And A-D convertors like the MOTU 
8pre are only 8 channels.

Umashankar

Ps. Who from the sursound group will be at the Los Angeles AES ? We are 
exhibiting various new Brahma microphones (including a large diaphragm version.)
Umashankar

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Stefan Schreiber<mailto:st...@mail.telepac.pt>
Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2016 9:01 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] New FOA recorder

umashankar manthravadi wrote:

> I am building a second order microphone with 8 capsules,
>umashankar
>
>

Why don't you consider to build some 3D version with 12 capsules?

The VR people might be quite interested in such a "simple" HOA mike.

Best regards,

Stefan

P.S.: It seems obvious that your mike is a 2D version.

P.S. 2: The associated 12-track recorder would be a secondary
problem...   :-)



>From: Courville, Daniel<mailto:courville.dan...@uqam.ca>
>Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2016 6:54 PM
>To: Sursound<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
>Subject: [Sursound] New FOA recorder
>
>New FOA recorder
>
>https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/field-recording/zoom-f4-multitrack-field-recorder
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: [Sursound] New FOA recorder

[umashankar manthravadi]

In the F8 There is a numeric display next to each channel and it can be dialed 
in exactly to one db. Rather like MOTU 4 pre for instance. The F4 looks like a 
four channel version.

umashankar

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Paul Hodges
Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2016 7:57 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] New FOA recorder

--On 06 September 2016 13:23 + "Courville, Daniel"
 wrote:

> New FOA recorder
>
> https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/field-recording/zoom-f4-multitrack-fi
> eld-recorder

There are separate level knobs with a scale (so it would seem not just
rotary encoders) for each channel - is there any way to gang channels
to ensure the levels track accurately?

Paul

--
Paul Hodges

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Re: [Sursound] New FOA recorder

[umashankar manthravadi]

This is really very nice. I bought the F8 which seems to be identical to this, 
but with 8 channels. Even that is very compact. I am building a second order 
microphone with 8 capsules, and one could also use paired first order 
ambisonics microphones (I do not know what for) or just record one with a back 
up on the second sd card.

umashankar

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Courville, Daniel
Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2016 6:54 PM
To: Sursound
Subject: [Sursound] New FOA recorder

New FOA recorder

https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/field-recording/zoom-f4-multitrack-field-recorder

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Re: [Sursound] AES Los Angeles

[umashankar manthravadi]

I am ! we are going to show off some new versions of the Brahma microphone as 
well.
 
umashankar
 
> From: dave.mal...@york.ac.uk
> Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2016 09:39:18 +0100
> To: sursound@music.vt.edu
> Subject: [Sursound] AES Los Angeles
> 
> Seems to be a few good looking papers covering Ambisonics at the AES
> convention in Los Angeles at the end of September.
> http://www.aes.org/events/141/papers/?displayall Wish I was going!
> 
>  Dave
> 
> -- 
> 
> As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.
> 
> These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University
> 
> Dave Malham
> Honorary Fellow, Department of Music
> The University of York
> York YO10 5DD
> UK
> 
> 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
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[Sursound] AES

[umashankar manthravadi]

I will be at the AES in Los Angeles at the end of September and hope to bump 
into Sursounders there. 
Actually my business partner Nakul Sood has booked a stall to show of Brahma 
microphones – including those that are still in preliminary stages, and I want 
to bring my on the shoulders ambisonics playback system.

Umashankar

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Re: [Sursound] Using Ambisonic for a live streaming VR project

[umashankar manthravadi]

I don’t remember reading ‘general metatheory’ . I am downloading it now.

I have printed a pair of four headphone arrays, designed to sit on the shoulder 
about six inches from the ears. I have not figured out how to make a 
comfortable grip so they stay there. I am building them so I can provide them a 
cube signal from first order B format, and let head movements determine 
localization. Just to see how far it will go.

umashankar

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Richard Lee
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 7:07 AM
To: 'sursound@music.vt.edu'
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Using Ambisonic for a live streaming VR project

> The main mechanisms for disambiguating 'cones of confusion' (and this
includes front-back reversals) are: pinnae effects (Batteau) and
head-movements (Wallach) - so, without either of these mechanisms at play,
one would expect directional ambiguity.

You can test the relative importance of these for YOURSELF with the famous
Malham / Van-Gogh Experiment

http://www.ambisonia.com/Members/ricardo/PermAmbi.htm/#VanGogh.

I still have some Diamond encrusted caps with optional Golden Pinnae but
you need to pay in used bank notes.  No Confederate money please.

Michael came up with his rE & rV theories ... not by considering how to
best replicate HRTFs bla bla .. but by asking ... "what information could
the Mk1 Human Head (+ torso + processing inside + bla bla) possibly have
available to determine localisation?"

If youi perform the above experiment, you'll find the Moving Head  cues are
FAR more important than the Fixed Head cues (HRTFs bla bla).

Where the HRTFs have the most significance is in the vertical plane.  It's
the different frequency response as a source moves off the horizontal plane
that allows the Mk1 HH to process 'height'.  But even then, Moving Head
cues are far more unambiguous .. and don't require a priori knowledge of
the source.

If the HRTF cues break down completely (eg simulating a pair of coincident
back to back cardioids as the crudest possible binaural decode), simulating
the Moving Head cues (head tracking) lets the Mk1 HH decode all this
without any problem, fuss or discomfort.

> I would like a little more information on ?head movements?.  I suspect
all head movements are being treated as equal, and I have a theory that
short rapid movements (like shaking the head) should be treated separately
from movements that include the shoulders, or even the whole body. Short
rapid movements of the eyeball have been studied and are well understood;
without these small movements the visual field collapses completely. Does
something similar happen for the aural field ?

One of the more surprising things that Michael worked out is that the
Moving Head localisation models gave the "same answers" regardless of
whether they assumed you turned your whole body to face the source (eg
Makita) .. or those that only allowed small involuntary head movements (eg
Clark, Dutton & Vanderlyn IIRC)

It's all there in his "General Metatheory  " if you are prepared to
study it and follow up the references.  See especially the 'stereo'
appendix.

http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=6827

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Re: [Sursound] Using Ambisonic for a live streaming VR project

[umashankar manthravadi]

I would like a little more information on ‘head movements’.  I suspect all head 
movements are being treated as equal, and I have a theory that short rapid 
movements (like shaking the head) should be treated separately from movements 
that include the shoulders, or even the whole body. Short rapid movements of 
the eyeball have been studied and are well understood; without these small 
movements the visual field collapses completely. Does something similar happen 
for the aural field ?

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Peter Lennox
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 2:38 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Using Ambisonic for a live streaming VR project

Stephan, hi

The main mechanisms for disambiguating 'cones of confusion' (and this includes 
front-back reversals) are: pinnae effects (Batteau) and head-movements 
(Wallach) - so, without either of these mechanisms at play, one would expect 
directional ambiguity.

In respect of elevation cues - well, I've heard many, very expert listeners, 
swear that in some stereo recordings, listened to over speakers, they can hear 
'height'. This could simply be a speaker artefact at Hf, but it could also be 
that elevation actually means 'up' - elevated sources have different 
relationships with items in the environment and ground effect (I loosely call 
this phenomenon ambience labelling) - so some elevation cues might not simply 
be pinnae effects.

Cheers
ppl

Dr. Peter Lennox
Senior Lecturer in Perception
College of Arts
University of Derby, UK
e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk
t: 01332 593155
https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox

-Original Message-
From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Stefan 
Schreiber
Sent: 13 June 2016 02:03
To: Surround Sound discussion group 
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Using Ambisonic for a live streaming VR project

Hi Archontis,

sorry for the relatively late response. I was travelling and had some problems 
to post anything on sursound during my trip. (I finally know what went wrong...)

Anyway, many thanks for the (as always) clear and well-informed answer you gave 
to my posting.

It is quite remarkable that some "pinnae-less" (but multi-perspective) binaural 
format seems to work well for HT VR applications. This is just another proof 
that some perceptual cues can be omitted (here: pinnae
cues) if other cues (ILD, ITD) are more or less intact.

However, there seem to be a couple of limitations of the (propietary) MTB 
recording format.

- I would expect some problems to distinguish between front and back.
(Head movements will fix these, but what if you want to keep your head in some 
"listening position"?)
- I would not expect that any or at least some significant height cues are 
captured. (?)

More important:

- It seems to be very difficult if not impossible to bring MTB recordings into 
some loudspeaker format. (Even to classical Stereo...) "Application case": 
Imagine you would like to present some VR/360º movie in some ("plain old") 
cinema version, or just to broadcast it on TV. You would need some 2.0 or 5.1 
(or Auro-3D/Dolby Atmos etc.) audio version to do so. How to derive this from 
any binaural recording, in some rational way?
(Unless they would interpret the 8-mic= RondoMic sphere recording as some HOA 
source. Which brings us back to my 1st mail...)

Last, but not least:

Good MTB recordings require many capsules assembled in an SA mirophone, in my 
eyes not any less than for HOA.

Sources:

http://dysonics.com/rondo360/

http://dysonics.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/dysonics_immersive_spatial_sound_for_mobile.pdf

"In practice, we find that this
procedure produces high-quality results using 8 microphones for speech and < 16 
microphones for music >."

"Although MTB produces highly-realistic, well externalized spatial sound, the 
signals produced by this method only approximate the exact experience, and 
critical listening tests have revealed various audible defects [7]. We have 
developed methods to correct for these problem, if corrections are required, 
and refer the interested reader to [7] for an extended discussion of this 
topic."

Chapter 4.1:
"For the numerical values a = 0.0875 m, c = 343 m/s and fmax = 2.5 kHz, these 
formulas call for 55 microphones for omnidirectional and 16 microphones for 
panoramic sampling."

55 microphones is quite a lot, especially if you are restricted to binaural 
applications.

<>Best regards

Stefan

---

Politis Archontis wrote:

>Hi Stefan,
>
>
>On 07 Jun 2016, at 04:35, Stefan Schreiber 
>mailto:st...@mail.telepac.pt>> wrote:
>
>Politis Archontis wrote:
>
>But instead of combining all microphones to generate the binaural 
>directivities (as in ambisonics), it interpolates only between the two 
>adjacent microphones that should be closest to the listen

Re: [Sursound] Zoom H2n firmware update for spatial audio + surround podcast produciton

[umashankar manthravadi]

A few years ago, I designed a tetrahedral array using 14 mm capsules that is a 
drop in replacement for the zoom H2N array, With calibration, we sell it as 
Brahma-in-Zoom, but the shapeways printed part is available for anyone wanting 
to try.

umashankar

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Eric Benjamin
Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2016 2:55 AM
To: Surround Sound discussion group; Augustine 
Leudar; Surround Sound discussion 
group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Zoom H2n firmware update for spatial audio + surround 
podcast produciton

The principle problem with using the ZoomH2n for Ambisonics recording is that 
the capsules are arranged in such a way that left obstructs right and right 
obstructs left. This can be seen in the photos on Daniel's web page 
athttp://www.radio.uqam.ca/ambisonic/images/h2_01.jpg
The result of the obstruction is that the polar patterns are severe!y 
compromised. They can't be modeled as a simple sum of zero and first order 
components which means that the recovered B-format will have significant 
errors. Also , the directions of the polar patterns vary with frequency.
This doesnt mean that it shouldn't be used, just that it could be better. Any 
one who is willing to modify could try exchanging the positions of the capsules 
between left and right. Or changing them to a square configuration.

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

  On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 2:06 PM, Augustine Leudar 
wrote:   I guess it would be able to position sounds on the horizontal plane, 
the
gap between the capsules means high frequencies with wavelengths shorter
than that gap might be a bit off . I do a fair bit of sound design - my
opinion is that for stereo theres not much point in trying to create
"immersive 3d sound" - Id say a minimum of quadrophonic would be necesary.
Of course broacasting surround sound is a great option. Theres loads more
that you can do than just ambisonics though .

On 18 May 2016 at 17:40, Courville, Daniel  wrote:

> Brendan Baker wrote:
>
> >this update now enables the H2N to spit out a 4-channel WAV file somewhat
> resembling b-format, minus the vertical channel.
>
> It is B-Format, ambiX: ACN channel sequence (WYZX), SN3D normalization.
>
> >My assumption was/is that the orientation of the H2N's mic capsules
> wouldn't create a true ambisonic image.
>
> Why?
>
> Here's a small recording I did yesterday after updating the Zoom H2n. It's
> a street corner in Montreal, just beside UQAM.
>
> http://www.radio.uqam.ca/ambisonic/audio/mtl-uqam-acn-sn3d.flac
>
> FuMa version: http://www.radio.uqam.ca/ambisonic/audio/mtl-uqam-fuma.flac
>
> - Daniel
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> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>



--
Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
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Re: [Sursound] Anyone know anything about this?

[umashankar manthravadi]

They do mention ambisonics

umashankar

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Marc Lavallee
Sent: Friday, April 8, 2016 7:57 PM
To: sursound@music.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Anyone know anything about this?

On Fri, 8 Apr 2016 15:13:16 +0200
Jörn Nettingsmeier  wrote:

> On 04/08/2016 02:10 PM, Marc Lavallée wrote:
> > On Fri, 8 Apr 2016 13:00:20 +0200,
> > Jörn Nettingsmeier  wrote :
> >
> >> On 04/07/2016 08:13 PM, Marc Lavallee wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The FAQ says:
> >>> "audio is recorded in 96 KHz/16 bit quality"
> >>>
> >>> I would prefer 48 KHz/24 bit.
> >>
> >> let's not discuss matters of taste, but rather keep things
> >> scientific.
> >>
> >> 96/16 = 6
> >> 48/24 = 2
> >>
> >> so theirs is clearly 3x better than yours!
> >
> > Of course! Hertz per bit... Or is it bit per hertz?
> > What's better for marketing? More bits of more hertz?
>
> More per bit per second!
>
> They might have very pragmatic reasons: if they know their equivalent
> input noise is at 30 dB SPL and their capsules barf at 120, then
> restricting the word length to 96 dB is a perfectly reasonable
> decision, given the extremely cramped space and the thermal
> challenges inside the sphere. It does not leave much room for error
> though, so they better get their analog gains right.

It makes sense. Thanks.

So what 96kHz refers to?

For the record, the Eigenmike is bandlimited to 20kHz, and the
recommended sampling frequency is 44.1kHz.

--
Marc
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Re: [Sursound] Anyone know anything about this?

[umashankar manthravadi]

It still hertz – Wireless World headline in the 60s

umashankar

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Marc Lavallée
Sent: Friday, April 8, 2016 5:40 PM
To: sursound@music.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Anyone know anything about this?

On Fri, 8 Apr 2016 13:00:20 +0200,
Jörn Nettingsmeier  wrote :

> On 04/07/2016 08:13 PM, Marc Lavallee wrote:
> >
> > The FAQ says:
> > "audio is recorded in 96 KHz/16 bit quality"
> >
> > I would prefer 48 KHz/24 bit.
>
> let's not discuss matters of taste, but rather keep things scientific.
>
> 96/16 = 6
> 48/24 = 2
>
> so theirs is clearly 3x better than yours!

Of course! Hertz per bit... Or is it bit per hertz?
What's better for marketing? More bits of more hertz?

> (i held it during the april foolery, but now it must out :)

(it's never too late for a 3 times better joke)
--
Marc


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Re: [Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo

[umashankar manthravadi]

Can one use a tetrahedral array and not decode to B format at all? Some way of 
processing into binaural, with headtracking and HRTF et al ?

umashankar

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Jon Honeyball
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 9:50 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo

I wonder if they are even aware of soundfield? Just wait for the patent 
applications to come trolling in…


On 17/03/2016, 14:21, "Sursound on behalf of John Leonard" 
 wrote:

>That’s because it is…
>
>Apparently, they played around with a couple of other variations and then 
>settled on a tetrahedral array. It’s the software package that’ll determine 
>whether it gets any traction, I think.
>
>Regards,
>
>John
>
>Please note new email address & direct line phone number
>email: j...@johnleonard.uk
>phone +44 (0)20 3286 5942
>
>
>> On 17 Mar 2016, at 03:30, Peter Lennox  wrote:
>>
>> Well, it looks like an ambisonic mic?
>
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Re: [Sursound] Ambi Head

[umashankar manthravadi]

Just downloaded the demo version and will try it. Highly kicked that brahma is 
there on their list!

umashankar

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Jon Honeyball
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 3:59 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Ambi Head

Interesting – much cheaper than the alternative.

On 10/03/2016, 05:53, "Sursound on behalf of Paul Doornbusch" 
 wrote:

>Hi,
>
>Has anyone tried Ambi Head - http://www.noisemakers.fr/ambi-head/ 
> ?
>
>I’m just curious how well it works if people have tried it.
>
>Thanks,
>Paul
>
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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

[umashankar manthravadi]

I was trying to say something else. The head moves independently of shoulder 
position. Pinnae are rigidly linked to the head; the shoulders are not. That is 
what made me think the two should be treated separately.

umashankar

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Stefan Schreiber
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2016 8:07 AM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

Stefan Schreiber wrote:

> Augustine Leudar wrote:
>
>> do you have a reference/source for that - that shoulder head reflections
>> dont matter in anechoice etc etc - I would be interested to read it...
>>
>>
> They just arrive later than direct sound. And if the HRTF length is
> too short and so you don't have the sample length to capture (any)
> reflections...
>
> Clear? Or did < I > miss something?
>
> St.


Ok, I stand corrected:

http://alumni.media.mit.edu/~kdm/hrtfdoc/section3_4.html#SECTION0004000

> In order to reduce the size of the data set without eliminating
> anything of potential interest, we decided to discard the first 200
> samples of each impulse response and save the next 512 samples. Each
> HRTF response is thus 512 samples long. < Most researchers will no
> doubt truncate this data further. >


> 44.1 kHz sampling rate

As the speed of sound is about 340m/s, you will capture shoulder
reflections even with just 128 samples.


(If your ear-shoulder distance is about 20cm, the shoulder reflections
will arrive about 40cm delayed compared to direct sound, i.e. about 1,2
ms later.

128/44.100 = 2,9 ms.)

Best,

Stefan




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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

[umashankar manthravadi]

I had been thinking about hrtf and the information available from shoulder and 
body reflections. They need to be decoupled. Headtracking should apply only to 
signal that will be binaural and HRTF processed. The other part of the sound 
should not have headtracking applied. I nearly twisted my neck this morning 
listening to the hiss of the gas stove and turn my shoulders without turning my 
head, not enough data. But just commonsense tells you the brain is probably 
using the rotating head information against a quasi static soundfield that 
includes body reflections.

umashankar

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Marc Lavallee
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 11:30 PM
To: sursound@music.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

On Wed, 24 Feb 2016 14:27:36 +
Politis Archontis  wrote:

> > On 24 Feb 2016, at 16:04, Steven Boardman
> >  wrote:
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > Richard Furse’s Blue Ripple Sound uses HRTF tinting in their
> > decoder, it works very well. Although I think he may have a patent
> > on it…:)
> >
> > Steve
> >
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> what is HRTF tinting? I haven’t heard the name before..
>
> Archontis

There's a description in the text of the patent:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2015/0262586.html
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20150262586.pdf

How multiple drivers can use HRTF tinting is unclear.
(but as most patents, they are difficult to understand).
--
Marc

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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

[umashankar manthravadi]

when you have four speakers to each ear, you can think of a decode to a cube. 
The only big difference between a cube mounted at a distance and this would be 
the importance of the head shadow. If you can cancel head movement (which 
headtracking does) it is very similar to listening to a cube of speakers in a 
room. there are some details of course. You do not need individual HRTFs. I am 
not sure what different head sizes will do. If the foam support compresses (and 
the distance to the drivers is fixed) it may not matter.

umashankar

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Steven Boardman
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 5:20 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

Not sure they would. As they are over the ear headphones, one doesn’t need 
pinna HRTF as ones own would function.
They probably made HRTF files for each driver position. That way your own pinna 
effects would function.

Steve



On 24 Feb 2016, at 11:30, Augustine Leudar  wrote:

> Theyd still have to somehow measure the pinna dimensions though - which is
> the most important part for vertical localisation - without that it wont
> work with just shoulder reflections and headwidth...
>
> On 24 February 2016 at 10:33, Corentin Guézénoc 
> wrote:
>
>> Based on what I had gathered from some video some time ago, my guess is
>> that they use some kind of HRTF model that takes into account the user's
>> head width, combined with the 4-driver system.  I guess the first would act
>> mostly on low frequencies and the latter on higher frequencies that would
>> be harder to model. However the last part is only a guess which I'm not
>> sure about.
>>
>> Corentin
>>

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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

[umashankar manthravadi]

It is not so much imitating as creating ILDs and ITDs. Shoulder reflections 
matter dynamically. But they vary from day to day. From the clothes we wear 
etc. I will order four small pairs of headphones today and 3-d print the over 
the ear structures. OSSIC talks about an anechoic rear chamber. I am thinking 
of an open backed structure (which will put your own shoulders into the 
picture!)

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Augustine Leudar<mailto:augustineleu...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 3:52 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

Umashankar - so you'd imitate ILDs and ITDs ? From what Ive read shoulder
reflections play an important role as well as the shape of the head - so Im
not sure if Pinna reflections would be enough ?

On 24 February 2016 at 10:19, Augustine Leudar 
wrote:

> Yes it would be nice to know how exactly (or at least roughly if you dont
> want to give your game away) the headphones take personalised HRTFs 
>
> On 24 February 2016 at 07:33, umashankar manthravadi <
> umasha...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I had been thinking, for three or four years now, that if one builds an
>> eight driver headphone, it should be possible to eliminate HRTF to a large
>> extent. I have been intending to build one into a motorcycle helmet. You
>> will then only need headtracking for a stable image.
>> OSSIC is an eight driver system.
>>
>>
>> umashankar
>>
>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows 10
>>
>> From: Marc Lavallée<mailto:m...@hacklava.net>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 9:28 AM
>> To: Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins
>>
>> It’d be nice to learn more about the auto-calibration feature. It looks
>> like only the diameter of the head is monitored.
>> —
>> Marc
>>
>> > On Feb 23, 2016, at 10:48 PM, len moskowitz 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > OSSIC (formerly Sonic VR) has designed prototypes of headphones that do
>> automatic HRTF calculation and headtracking. They will support ambisonics
>> (They have a TetraMic system.)
>> >
>> >
>> > They are seeking development and production funding on Kickstarter:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/248983394/ossic-x-the-first-3d-audio-headphones-calibrated-t
>> >
>> >
>> > They sought to raise $100,000 in 60 days. They've already raised over
>> $340,000 in less than three.
>> >
>> >
>> > Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com)
>> > Core Sound LLC
>> > www.core-sound.com
>> > Home of TetraMic
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> www.augustineleudar.com
>



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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

[umashankar manthravadi]

I had been thinking, for three or four years now, that if one builds an eight 
driver headphone, it should be possible to eliminate HRTF to a large extent. I 
have been intending to build one into a motorcycle helmet. You will then only 
need headtracking for a stable image.
OSSIC is an eight driver system.


umashankar

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Marc Lavallée
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 9:28 AM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

It’d be nice to learn more about the auto-calibration feature. It looks like 
only the diameter of the head is monitored.
—
Marc

> On Feb 23, 2016, at 10:48 PM, len moskowitz  
> wrote:
>
> OSSIC (formerly Sonic VR) has designed prototypes of headphones that do 
> automatic HRTF calculation and headtracking. They will support ambisonics 
> (They have a TetraMic system.)
>
>
> They are seeking development and production funding on Kickstarter:
>
>
>
> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/248983394/ossic-x-the-first-3d-audio-headphones-calibrated-t
>
>
> They sought to raise $100,000 in 60 days. They've already raised over 
> $340,000 in less than three.
>
>
> Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com)
> Core Sound LLC
> www.core-sound.com
> Home of TetraMic

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Re: [Sursound] Never do electronic in public.

[umashankar manthravadi]

One more question. How useful or effective is it to have headtracking only on 
the horizontal axis ? will it help at all ?

umashankar

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: David Pickett
Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 3:19 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Never do electronic in public.

At 10:37 02-02-16, Politis Archontis wrote:

 >The issue is that all these emerging VR and AR technologies,
 >independently of if they will be successful or not, should be designed
 >from the bottom-up to deliver consistent and natural cues, especially
 >if you are mixing reality with the virtual. Otherwise, you end up with
 >a mess of audiovisual conflicting cues, which may be exhausting and
 >disorientating.

But...  I seem to be the only person I know who complains about ALL
the dialogue coming from the centre speaker on 5.1 movies!  Having
sterero dialogue seems to me to be a basic necessity for realism (AKA
consistent and natural cues)!

David

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Re: [Sursound] Never do electronic in public.

[umashankar manthravadi]

For the moment, I would like video kept out of motion tracked audio on 
headphones. I want this to be a system where I can sit in a rocking chair and 
listen to music of many kinds on a good pair of headphones and the headtracking 
is only to reinforce the audio image.

Umashankar
p.s. I have ordered bits to build a usb contraption to turn headmovements into 
xy.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Stefan Schreiber
Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 3:32 AM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Never do electronic in public.

David McGriffy wrote:

>
>I got a GearVR recently and it does work better than Google Cardboard. Much
>of this is just comfort, I think, but I understand that it has its own
>gyros, mostly because they are faster. 'Heresay' is that the Oculus Rift
>samples at least 1000Hz. I have actually written an audio rate rotate that
>could handle this, but it does seem like overkill. At normal head turning
>rates, I find interpolating the rotation within each block to be enough.
>
>
>
http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/abrash/latency-the-sine-qua-non-of-ar-and-vr/

(Written by a super-expert of VR)

> Assuming accurate, consistent tracking (and that’s a big if, as I’ll
> explain one of these days), the enemy of virtual registration is
> latency. < If too much time elapses between the time your head starts
> to turn and the time the image is redrawn to account for the new pose,
> the virtual image will drift far enough so that it has clearly wobbled
> (in VR), or so that is obviously no longer aligned with the same
> real-world features (in AR). >

(Elaboration:)

> Suppose you rotate your head at 60 degrees/second. That sounds fast,
> but in fact it’s just a slow turn; you are capable of moving your head
> at hundreds of degrees/second. Also suppose that latency is 50 ms and
> resolution is 1K x 1K over a 100-degree FOV. Then as your head turns,
> the virtual images being displayed are based on 50 ms-old data, which
> means that their positions are off by three degrees, which is wider
> than your thumb held at arm’s length. Put another way, the object
> positions are wrong by 30 pixels. Either way, the error is very
> noticeable.


In other words: There are speed/delay problems, there are sync problems,
there might be more...


> You can do prediction to move the drawing position to the right place,
> and that works pretty well most of the time. Unfortunately, when there
> is a sudden change of direction, the error becomes even bigger than
> with no prediction.


> Tracking latency is highly dependent on the system used. An IMU (3-DOF
> gyro and 3-DOF accelerometer) has very low latency – on the order of 1
> ms – but drifts. < In particular, position derived from the
> accelerometer drifts badly, because it’s derived via double
> integration from acceleration. > Camera-based tracking doesn’t drift,
> but has high latency due to the need to capture the image, transfer it
> to the computer, and process the image to determine the pose; that can
> easily take 10-15 ms. < Right now, one of the lowest-latency
> non-drifting accurate systems out there is a high-end system from NDI,
> which has about 4 ms of latency, so we’ll use that for the tracking
> latency. >



> It would be far easier and more generally applicable to have the
> display run at 120 Hz, which would immediately reduce display latency
> to about 8 ms, bringing total latency down to 12-14 ms.

(s. PlaystationVR...)

> If you ever thought that AR/VR was just a simple matter of showing an
> image on the inside of glasses or goggles, I hope that by this point
> in the blog it’s become clear just how complex and subtle it is to
> present convincing virtual images – and we’ve only scratched the surface.


Wise words... (No, really!)

But not to get stuck and despair: Motion-tracked audio seems to be
so much easier to realize...


Best regards,

Stefan









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Re: [Sursound] Never do electronic in public.

[umashankar manthravadi]

I just looked back at sursound mails and michael chapman had pointed out that 
the teensy has four channel audio support. > 
http://www.pjrc.com/teensy/td_libs_Audio.html

umashankar

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Bo-Erik Sandholm
Sent: Monday, February 1, 2016 1:12 PM
To: sursound
Cc: umashankar mantravadi; Stefan 
Schreiber; Marc Lavallée
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Never do electronic in public.

I am not really very structured and gets distracted easily, in this
experiment the final hardware setup is not decided, currently my software
structure thinking is like this.

OSC for the protocol as most available Ambisonics sw is VST's for PC or Mac
and Reaper accepts OSC for controls. If done right OSC does not have a
latency problem. Just remember the speed of data output from the sensor
needs to be set high :-)

Reaper is because I am currently thinking of the binaural conversion
experiments with Ambisonics, there do exist 4 channel vst player software's
more like normal apps when the playback chain is configured for end users.

Or would it be better to use oculus rift syntax for the position messages
to be compatible with VR apps?
Or maybe make it changeable by just loading different software?
With my current WiFi plan maybe the wifi chip should accept oculus syntax
and convert and send OSC to be flexible?

Actually the pico-platinche with the bno055 is nice because it is smaller
than the diy head tracker  and have more free CPU and memory for the
protocol implementation as the sensor with its built in cpu does drift
elimination and calibration.
As far as I know the bno055 is the only sensor with built in calibration
and drift compensation available to hobbyists.

If the communication is serial over USB, tcp-ip over USB or using WiFi or
Bluetooth does not matter so much at this stage.

Bluetooth might be best for platform flexibility, works with phones, PC and
Mac and workable with Linux. But the same is valid for WiFi., and currently
the Chinese Bluetooth module is larger than the WiFi but needs less power.

And I think I have burnt my BT module with 5v and is waiting for a new
one...

Best Regards
Bo-Erik
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Re: [Sursound] Never do electronic in public.

[umashankar manthravadi]

Dear marc

There seem to be dozens of nine axis (three each of gyro, magnetic and 
accelerometer with two data and two power pins connecting to usb Arduino – here 
are some  links
https://www.adafruit.com/products/1714
https://www.pjrc.com/store/teensy.html
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270962872404&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160&rmvSB=true
http://planetkris.com/2014/12/easier-better-arduino-imu-head-tracker/

most of the action is happening in gamer groups and drone control – all the way 
to ready to use ide and guis.

umashankar

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Marc Lavallée<mailto:m...@hacklava.net>
Sent: Monday, February 1, 2016 10:20 AM
To: umashankar manthravadi<mailto:umasha...@hotmail.com>
Cc: Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Never do electronic in public.

On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 07:53:46 +0530,
umashankar manthravadi  wrote :

> VVaudio working in audio mulch will accept midi to control parameters
> like azimuth and elevation. There are plenty of two board (but tiny
> boards) that will  provide usb output from a 9degrees of freedom
> chip. We just need to convert X and Y to midistreams.

I'd be curious to see a list of appropriate sensors and boards. Fons is
already working on a similar project; we'll learn more when it's ready.

> Would like to see it integrated audio on USB but we need not start
> there.

It would keep the device small, cheaper, and compatible with many
systems that already have a headphone output. But there's probably
small and cheap usb headphone amplifier modules that could be
integrated.

> I am sure it can be used with ambisonics.xyz too, but is that site
> dead ?

It's http://ambisonic.xyz/ (without a s).
It still works (but only for Chrome based browsers)

--
Marc

> umashankar
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
> From: Marc Lavallée<mailto:m...@hacklava.net>
> Sent: Monday, February 1, 2016 7:37 AM
> To: Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Never do electronic in public.
>
> On Mon, 01 Feb 2016 01:17:42 +,
> Stefan Schreiber  wrote :
>
> > Again: You need a defined plan what your device is supposed to do,
> > to connect to which devices (PCs? iOS/Android devices? ...), etc.
>
> The plan is to track the orientation of a moving body part that is
> known to affect our ability to localize sound; according to recent
> scientific studies, the head is a prime suspect. The connectivity
> could be an option: serial, usb, wifi or bluetooth. Such a project
> does not need all parameters to be defined in the rock, and
> prototypes are required.
>
> > Anyway: Isn't your project pretty finished when you will have
> > decided on the new < reference hardware >? I see this as an open
> > hardware project. Software/apps can be written later. You maybe
> > would have to implement just one < reference appliance >, which
> > could be a PC solution, or an Ambisonics playback app for Android.
>
> The FreeIMU project was open (and is probably no longer maintained).
> We can expect sensors, processors and transmitters to be updated
> regularly, so I prefer to avoid defining a reference hardware. Simply,
> a head tracking gizmo could be able to work with any software that
> requires it, so the more open the better. The protocol is probably
> more important than the hardware, which could vary.
>
> > * FSSC = Fast and Simple Sound Control.  The name is the aim...  :-D
>
> OSC is not ideal for slow links, because it requires a minimum of 24
> bytes to send a single value... The Firmata protocol could be a better
> choice: https://github.com/firmata
> http://firmata.org/wiki/Design_Issues
>
> --
> Marc
>
> ___
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Re: [Sursound] Never do electronic in public.

[umashankar manthravadi]

VVaudio working in audio mulch will accept midi to control parameters like 
azimuth and elevation. There are plenty of two board (but tiny boards) that 
will  provide usb output from a 9degrees of freedom chip. We just need to 
convert X and Y to midistreams. Would like to see it integrated audio on USB 
but we need not start there. I am sure it can be used with ambisonics.xyz too, 
but is that site dead ?

umashankar

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Marc Lavallée
Sent: Monday, February 1, 2016 7:37 AM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Never do electronic in public.

On Mon, 01 Feb 2016 01:17:42 +,
Stefan Schreiber  wrote :

> Again: You need a defined plan what your device is supposed to do, to
> connect to which devices (PCs? iOS/Android devices? ...), etc.

The plan is to track the orientation of a moving body part that is
known to affect our ability to localize sound; according to recent
scientific studies, the head is a prime suspect. The connectivity
could be an option: serial, usb, wifi or bluetooth. Such a project does
not need all parameters to be defined in the rock, and prototypes are
required.

> Anyway: Isn't your project pretty finished when you will have decided
> on the new < reference hardware >? I see this as an open hardware
> project. Software/apps can be written later. You maybe would have to
> implement just one < reference appliance >, which could be a PC
> solution, or an Ambisonics playback app for Android.

The FreeIMU project was open (and is probably no longer maintained).
We can expect sensors, processors and transmitters to be updated
regularly, so I prefer to avoid defining a reference hardware. Simply,
a head tracking gizmo could be able to work with any software that
requires it, so the more open the better. The protocol is probably more
important than the hardware, which could vary.

> * FSSC = Fast and Simple Sound Control.  The name is the aim...  :-D

OSC is not ideal for slow links, because it requires a minimum of 24
bytes to send a single value... The Firmata protocol could be a better
choice: https://github.com/firmata
http://firmata.org/wiki/Design_Issues

--
Marc

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Re: [Sursound] How to derive a good "universal" HRTF data set?

[umashankar manthravadi]

This might interest some
http://patents.stackexchange.com/questions/4569/virtual-loudspeakers-over-headphones-using-head-tracking-issued-patent-prior

umashankar

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Markus Noisternig
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 7:02 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] How to derive a good "universal" HRTF data set?

Dear All,

I would like to add a few words to the discussion on the AES69-2015 / SOFA 
format:

AES69 standardizes the SOFA file format to exchange space-related acoustic 
data. The format is designed to be sufficiently flexible to include source 
materials from different databases and for different use cases (e.g., HRIRs, 
MIMO-RIRs, etc.).

AES69 is split in two parts: (1) the main body of the text, wich defines 
dimensions and general rules for creating so-called conventions; (2) 
‘conventions' for a consistent description of particular setups in the annex.

A ‘convention’ defines recommendations on the naming of AES69 attributes, 
variables, and dimensions for particular application fields. In other standards 
a set of ‘conventions’ is often referred to as a ‘profile’. Conventions are 
discussed on the SOFA website (http://www.sofaconventions.org/). As soon as a 
new convention is considered as being consistent and stable, it will be added 
to the annex of the AES69 standard through the normal revision process.

In other words, if you want AES69 / SOFA to support ATK, feel free to open the 
discussion on a new set of conventions.

Open source APIs for Matlab, Octave, and C++ are available at 
http://sourceforge.net/projects/sofacoustics/. The API provides functionality 
to create, read, and write AES69 ‘.sofa’ files. You can freely download and use 
the APIs, in whole or in part, for personal or commercial purposes.

Best regards,

Markus

--
Markus Noisternig
Acoustics and Cognition Research Group
IRCAM, CNRS, Sorbonne Universities, UPMC
Paris, France

> On 26 janv. 2016, at 11:30, Trond Lossius  wrote:
>
>> On 25 Jan 2016, at 01:37, Marc Lavallée  wrote:
>>
>>> As anything simpler but functional might be sufficient and even
>>> preferable in most cases:
>>>
>>> - Does ATK define an HRTF interface which is sufficiently flexible to
>>> be the base for a real < standard > ?
>>
>> Not really, but you should ask the maintainers of ATK.
>
> I don’t think ATK makes sense as a standard. The ATK sets are pretty 
> application-specific: For each HRTF it contains 8 impulses so that each of 
> the WXYZ channels can be convolved to the left and right ear. These are 
> calculated as a reductionfrom larger sets of HRTF measurements. A general 
> HRTF measurement contains much more information (measurements for multiple 
> azimuths and elevations). As such SOFA seems to me an interesting move 
> towards a standardisation.
>
> What would be useful though, would be a standard solution for generating 
> impulses for ATK from SOFA data.



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Re: [Sursound] Never do math in public, or my take on explaining B-format to binaural

[umashankar manthravadi]

I want to see a good quality over the ear stereo headphone with all necessary 
electronics built into the headband. It will have single usb connector which 
will provide power and digital audio (24 bit) and carry head tracking 
information back to the computer, which will have the software to play standard 
first order B-format files decoded to binaural, using simple HRTF filters. The 
computer can be your desktop, a tablet computer or a mobile.

umashankar

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Stefan Schreiber
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2016 1:28 AM
To: rica...@justnet.com.au; Surround Sound 
discussion group
Cc: Aaron Heller
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Never do math in public, or my take on explaining 
B-format to binaural

Richard Lee wrote:

>Just to bring everyone down to earth ..
>
>There are two easily reproduced experiments first carried out by prominent
>members of this group which put these effects into perspective.  They are
>the
>
>Greene/Lee Neckbrace
>and
>Malham/Van Gogh Experiment
>
>The first shows 'real life' Fixed Head Localisation (which matched HRTFs
>address) is TERRIBLE.  Many people can't even distinguish back/front with
>perfect (measured on their own noggin) HRTFs ... or even in 'real life'
>with a Greene/Lee neckbrace.  Anyone who has done fixed head localisation
>experiments finds this out real quick.
>
>The second shows that even the tiniest amount of head movement improves
>localisation immensely and any ambiguity due to mismatched Pinnae etc (and
>YES, the pinnae colouration effects are chaotic) are INSTANTLY resolved.
> No 'training' is necessary with head movement.
>
>

https://mediatum.ub.tum.de/doc/1207048/1207048.pdf

> The bottleneck for an immersive binaural sound synthesis is the
> acquirement of individual
> Head-Related Transfer Functions (HRTF). Manifold HRTF approaches to
> circumvent the
> obstacle of HRTF measurement are topic in research. The localization
> performance of three
> more or less individualized HRTF-datasets is related to the
> individually measured HRTF. An
> intuitive experimental design, using laser pointing for indicating the
> perceived sound source
> direction, is introduced to evaluate those individualization
> approaches. Besides the impact of
> head-tracking is investigated. The results show that the azimuth
> localization error does not
> differ significantly for an generic dummy-head HRTF, the individually
> measured HRTF and
> the HRTF selected from a certain set of other person’s HRTFs, if
> head-tracking is available.
> In the case without head-tracking the measured HRTF grants the
> smallest reversal rate. This
> results can be taken into account for designing an binaural auditory
> application

...

> In general the mean localization error for all data is comparable to
> prior researches.
> < Considering the results for the elevation localization, it was found
> that the performance is
> significantly better for the noise stimuli and also for the individual
> HRTF. In general the
> elevation directions were underestimated. >

...

> For the HRTF-sets it can be stated that head-tracking reduces the
> differences in localization
> error. < No significant differences between measured HRTF, KEMAR HRTF
> and selected
> HRTF for the azimuth error could be found. > In contrast to that the
> differences in the means
> of the azimuth error are significant for all HRTF-datasets if
> head-tracking is not available,
> whereas the lowest error was obtained using the individually measured
> HRTF.



Thanks (very obviously) to the Technical University of Munich, which
still "dares" to publish research which is funded by the tax payer.
(More and more universities seem to be bound by NDA agreements, even if
participating companies don't contribute anywhere to 50% or more to the
costs.)

At 1st reading, R. Lee seems to have some support...

It could be that we still need personalised HRTFs, in spite of HT.
(Elevation cues; spectral/pinna cues needed for localisation in the
median plane.)

Best,

Stefan



>Even vertical localisation, for which Fixed Head HRTFs have the most
>benefit, require a priori knowledge of the source spectrum.  I've done a
>small amount of work involving victims ... I mean subjects ... blindfolded
>and tied up face down on anechoic chamber floors which show the first pin
>drop is impossible to localise.  Second and subsequent pin drops are much
>easier.
>
>I'll point out that Gerzon had Fixed and Moving Head versions of all his
>Localisation Theories.  The infamous Energy and Velocity vector
>'magnitudes', rE & rV, are in fact a measure of the correspondence of Fixed
>with Moving.
>
>His Energy and Velocity models incorporate (give the same results as) ALL
>the existing Localisation models except for the HF interaural delay
>(Transient) and Colouration ('HRTF') models.

Re: [Sursound] Never do math in public, or my take on explaining B-format to binaural

[umashankar manthravadi]

I have been wanting to say exactly what richard lee says, for many days now. 
Only I could not figure out an unambiguous way of putting it down.

umashankar

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Richard Lee
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2016 5:39 PM
To: 'Surround Sound discussion group'
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Never do math in public, or my take on explaining 
B-format to binaural

Just to bring everyone down to earth ..

There are two easily reproduced experiments first carried out by prominent
members of this group which put these effects into perspective.  They are
the

Greene/Lee Neckbrace
and
Malham/Van Gogh Experiment

The first shows 'real life' Fixed Head Localisation (which matched HRTFs
address) is TERRIBLE.  Many people can't even distinguish back/front with
perfect (measured on their own noggin) HRTFs ... or even in 'real life'
with a Greene/Lee neckbrace.  Anyone who has done fixed head localisation
experiments finds this out real quick.

The second shows that even the tiniest amount of head movement improves
localisation immensely and any ambiguity due to mismatched Pinnae etc (and
YES, the pinnae colouration effects are chaotic) are INSTANTLY resolved.
 No 'training' is necessary with head movement.

Even vertical localisation, for which Fixed Head HRTFs have the most
benefit, require a priori knowledge of the source spectrum.  I've done a
small amount of work involving victims ... I mean subjects ... blindfolded
and tied up face down on anechoic chamber floors which show the first pin
drop is impossible to localise.  Second and subsequent pin drops are much
easier.

I'll point out that Gerzon had Fixed and Moving Head versions of all his
Localisation Theories.  The infamous Energy and Velocity vector
'magnitudes', rE & rV, are in fact a measure of the correspondence of Fixed
with Moving.

His Energy and Velocity models incorporate (give the same results as) ALL
the existing Localisation models except for the HF interaural delay
(Transient) and Colouration ('HRTF') models.

One of Gerzon's most important contributions is that he shows the
equivalence of the full Moving Head models like Makita, which assume the
listener will fully turn to face the sound ... with the models that only
assume small involuntary head movements.  See "General Metatheory ... " for
the nitty gritty.


If you make some B-format recordings with a properly aligned Ambisonic mike
like TetraMic, you can test some of this for yourself.  Have lots of things
happening all around including up & down.  Use headphones and the crudest
possible Binaural decoding ... slightly hyper cardioids at about 150.

You will find about 10% of the population have difficulty with front/back.
 But let these guys twiddle the Azimuth & Elevation controls on VVMic
themselves and they immediately become happy with the scene ... even before
they work out VVMic's slightly quirky interface.


CONCLUSIONS

If you have Head Tracking (ie Moving Head Localisation), don't bother with
fancy HRTFs.

Eric Benjamin found that you get most of the benefits from just getting
head size right but even this isn't necessary if you have Head Tracking.
 Blumlein shuffle probably worth doing as you essentially get it free with
your simple IIR implementation.

Fancier HRTFs will need EVIL FIRs to be of use.  You will lose any chance
of 'real time' and muck up the experience for 'mismatched' listeners.
 Expect only small (if any) 'improvement' for the huge extra.computing load
to interpolate between HRTFs.

If you haven't got Head Tracking, GOTO Head Tracking

This covers all the Virtual Reality applications.  The Video Game people
like Simon Goodwin of Codeworks have been doing it for at leas a decade
with 3rd Order HOA IIRC.

If you insist on fancy HRTFs and Fixed Head ... do you seriously think you
can improve on the listening experience of present & past generations of
listeners, who have listened to 'music' over ear buds for more than a
decade ... with fancy HRTFs ? GOTO Head Tracking.


SPECIAL OFFER

Send $500 in used bank notes to me at Cooktown Recording and Ambisonic
Productions mentioning Sursound, for a sample Greene/Lee Neckbrace and
Diamond Encrusted Malham/Van Gogh cap. Golden Pinnae are an extra cost
option on the last item.  No Confederate money please.
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Re: [Sursound] Sennheiser Easy 3D Recording and Modeling

[umashankar manthravadi]

But a tetrahedron set up as top and three sides – I built one like that too, on 
the surface of a hemisphere.

umashankar

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Courville, Daniel
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 6:52 PM
To: Sursound
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sennheiser Easy 3D Recording and Modeling

http://www.videomaker.com/videonews/2016/01/best-microphone-of-ces-2016-sennheiser-vr-mic

This says four caps. OK.

Le 16-01-25 08:17, Courville, Daniel a écrit :

>Le 16-01-25 08:00, Courville, Daniel a écrit :
>
>>From what we're seeing, the Ambeo mic looks like it has more then four 
>>capsules.
>
>Still not sure:
>
>http://static.videomaker.com/sites/videomaker.com/files/styles/blog_post_primary/public/videonews/2016/01/IMG_1524%20Cropped.jpg


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Re: [Sursound] Sennheiser Easy 3D Recording and Modeling

[umashankar manthravadi]

That is a tetrahedron! After all my struggles to making one, I can recognize it 
in sleep, in pitch darkness/

umashankar

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Courville, Daniel
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 6:47 PM
To: Sursound
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sennheiser Easy 3D Recording and Modeling

Le 16-01-25 08:00, Courville, Daniel a écrit :

>From what we're seeing, the Ambeo mic looks like it has more then four 
>capsules.

Still not sure:

http://static.videomaker.com/sites/videomaker.com/files/styles/blog_post_primary/public/videonews/2016/01/IMG_1524%20Cropped.jpg
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Re: [Sursound] How to derive a good "universal" HRTF data set?

[umashankar manthravadi]

I must be wrong, but about 50 years ago in scientific American, I read an 
article about how Bekesy measured the inter-diaphragm spacing of various 
mammals (including an elephant) and found it surprisingly constant. If the 
spacing between diaphragms is constant, would not that simplify the design of 
synthesized HRTFs ?

umashankar

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Bo-Erik Sandholm
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 5:15 PM
To: sursound
Subject: Re: [Sursound] How to derive a good "universal" HRTF data set?

Just a short note, my wish list for what I think. could be a good way of
doing binaural coding is to use these parameters:

- the distance between the ears (head size) is the most import factor so
maybe 5 sizes to choose from. ( I have a larger inter ear distance than the
norm)

- use only simple generic compensation for ear shape above ~4kHz.

- the shoulder reflection controlled by head tracking data, the simplest
way is to assume the listener is stationary and only turns his head. Could
this be implemented to be a parametric controlled filter set?

Can anyone create a binaural encoding using this?

I think the shoulder compensation is something that have not been done.
As far as I know all binaural encodings are done using data sets with a
fixed head and shoulder position.

Best regards
Bo-Erik Sandholm
Stockholm
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Re: [Sursound] OZO?

[umashankar manthravadi]

Hot air balloons !



Sent from Mail for Windows 10



From: Peter Lennox
Sent: Monday, December 7, 2015 7:22 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] OZO?


If you look at early experiements to investigate hearing in 'freefield' 
conditions, you can see pictures of scientists sitting atop poles on the roof 
of the building.

And if you've ever tried such a thing, the world sounds very different without 
(or at least, with diminished) ground reflections

Dr. Peter Lennox
Senior Lecturer in Perception
College of Arts
University of Derby, UK
e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk 
t: 01332 593155
https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox 
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox 


-Original Message-
From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Steven 
Boardman
Sent: 07 December 2015 13:49
To: Surround Sound discussion group 
Subject: Re: [Sursound] OZO?

Or the N.A.S.A Orbitron. What fun...
On 7 Dec 2015 1:21 pm, "David Pickett"  wrote:

> At 13:11 07-12-15, Steven Boardman wrote:
> >Our heads don't pivot at our ears, or roll perfectly on the joint. 
> >Our
> ears
> >aren't that level either. Which only adds to the differences. Mine 
> >are quite visibily not level. With both pinar of a different size and shape.
> >Off piste I know but the filtering effect of the ears and body, when 
> >one only moves ones head up and down, is also quite substantial. When 
> >it is done in all planes its a lot more.
>
> Do you think there is a market for trampolines with built in surround 
> systems?  Or how about being attached to the walls, ceiling and floor 
> with bungees?
>
> Remember: you saw it here first...
>
> David
>
> ___
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Re: [Sursound] 8 channels on 12 volts

[umashankar manthravadi]

the three d printer is a little bit of frankenstein. a lot of the parts are 
from a chinese machine called ecubmaker. the dodecahedrn design is on 
thingiverse but i had to modify it to speakers i wanted to use = VIFA 3 inch 
full range available on madisound. i have also redesigned the brahma microphone 
to print on my 3d printer. there is a picture of that too.
umashankar

here is a picture \\umashankar

> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 13:30:51 +
> From: augustineleu...@gmail.com
> To: sursound@music.vt.edu
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] 8 channels on 12 volts
> 
> Fantastic ! What sort of 3d printer did you use or was it a router ? Your
> own design of speaker ?
> 
> On Saturday, 31 October 2015, umashankar manthravadi 
> wrote:
> 
> > my first use is to power a dodecahedron loudspeaker-three speakers to each
> > amplifier. that way i will get more power out of 12 volts. i just finished
> > 3dprinting the loudspeaker.
> >
> > i will build a portable 8 channel system with 3-inch speakers that i would
> > like to take around for ambisonic demonstrations in colleges etc.
> >
> > i should check the specs for the ic.it is a single chip and the board
> > looks well made - it says 50 watts per channel, but i would be happy with
> > about 18watts into 4 ohms per channel. (it should be capable of that much -
> > these are bridge outputs.
> >
> > umashankar
> >
> > > Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 10:42:43 +
> > > From: augustineleu...@gmail.com 
> > > To: sursound@music.vt.edu 
> > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] 8 channels on 12 volts
> > >
> > > Ooooh for me this is very interesting. Let us know how long it lasts for.
> > > Let us know what material and what speakers ! What are you using this
> > for ?
> > >
> > > On Saturday, 31 October 2015, umashankar manthravadi <
> > umasha...@hotmail.com >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > dear all
> > > > there have been  recent discussions on multichannel amplifiers. this
> > is my
> > > > solution. two cards providing 8 channels of amplification running on a
> > > > lithium 12 volt battery ! (very low cost too, on aliexpress
> > > >
> > http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-Amplifier-Board-TDA7850-4X50W-4-Channel-Car-Audio-Amplifier-Board-12V-AV-Interface/1331622462.html
> > > > .
> > > > i have not powered it up yet
> > > > umashankar
> > > > -- next part --
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> > > > ___
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> -- next part 

Re: [Sursound] 8 channels on 12 volts

[umashankar manthravadi]

my first use is to power a dodecahedron loudspeaker-three speakers to each 
amplifier. that way i will get more power out of 12 volts. i just finished 
3dprinting the loudspeaker.

i will build a portable 8 channel system with 3-inch speakers that i would like 
to take around for ambisonic demonstrations in colleges etc.

i should check the specs for the ic.it is a single chip and the board looks 
well made - it says 50 watts per channel, but i would be happy with about 
18watts into 4 ohms per channel. (it should be capable of that much - these are 
bridge outputs.

umashankar

> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 10:42:43 +
> From: augustineleu...@gmail.com
> To: sursound@music.vt.edu
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] 8 channels on 12 volts
> 
> Ooooh for me this is very interesting. Let us know how long it lasts for.
> Let us know what material and what speakers ! What are you using this for ?
> 
> On Saturday, 31 October 2015, umashankar manthravadi 
> wrote:
> 
> > dear all
> > there have been  recent discussions on multichannel amplifiers. this is my
> > solution. two cards providing 8 channels of amplification running on a
> > lithium 12 volt battery ! (very low cost too, on aliexpress
> > http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-Amplifier-Board-TDA7850-4X50W-4-Channel-Car-Audio-Amplifier-Board-12V-AV-Interface/1331622462.html
> > .
> > i have not powered it up yet
> > umashankar
> > -- next part --
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151031/aba8d359/attachment.jpg
> > >
> > ___
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> >
> 
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[Sursound] 8 channels on 12 volts

[umashankar manthravadi]

dear all
there have been  recent discussions on multichannel amplifiers. this is my 
solution. two cards providing 8 channels of amplification running on a lithium 
12 volt battery ! (very low cost too, on aliexpress 
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-Amplifier-Board-TDA7850-4X50W-4-Channel-Car-Audio-Amplifier-Board-12V-AV-Interface/1331622462.html.
i have not powered it up yet
umashankar
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Re: [Sursound] Browsers that play surround sound under HTML5.

[umashankar manthravadi]

I am able to use Microsoft edge with ambisonics.xyz

umashankar

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From: David Pickett
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 6:15 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: [Sursound] Browsers that play surround sound under HTML5.


Bruce Wiggins' webpage on browsers that play surround recordings 
using the HTML5  tag is 3.5 years old.

http://www.brucewiggins.co.uk/?p=265

I dont use IE, and Firefox doesnt play ball at all on the PC, so I 
use Chrome for multi-channel aac files.

http://www.fugato.com/pickett/surround-tests.shtml

But it is disappointing to think that no other browsers have caught 
up in the last three years.

Has anyone tested any others with multi-channel files?

David

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Re: [Sursound] Release of VVEncode

[umashankar manthravadi]

Brahma is available – two models, array built into Zoom and stand alone.



Umashankar



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From: David McGriffy
Sent: 07 October 2015 22:09
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Release of VVEncode


Charles,

I don't actually sell either the TetraMic or Brahma so I'm not really the
one to ask about availability, but I'm pretty sure that they would love to
sell one to you.

Yes, VVDecode will support arbitrary playback systems in that you can set
the speaker positions to whatever you like.  It is limited to 8 outputs,
but you can use two copies to get more if you need to.  I might add,
however, that VVDecode will be but a first order linear decoder and as such
probably isn't the right choice much past 8 speakers.  Parametric decoders
or HOA is a better answer for large arrays.

David

On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 10:22 AM, Charles Veasey 
wrote:

> This is great news! I'm putting a budget together for a 3D sound course at
> my school? I've budgeted in at least one TetraMic.
>
> Is it still possible to buy the Brahma mic as well?
>
> Will the decoder support arbitrary playback systems?
>
> thanks,
> Charles
>
> On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 8:49 AM, Paul Hodges 
> wrote:
>
> > --On 06 October 2015 16:08 -0500 David McGriffy 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I'm sure you will let me
> > > know if I've made any silly errors or how it might be improved.
> >
> > Hard to tell; I can't download it, even though I can see it in my login
> > area and have been sent a link.  Maybe it's because I pretended to be
> > in the US, because only US and Canada can be specified as countries.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > --
> > Paul Hodges
> >
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[Sursound] Eigenmike

[umashankar manthravadi]

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Re: [Sursound] A new home for Ambisonia

[umashankar manthravadi]

Dear marc

I have seen the website and it is very nice. I had not responded earlier 
because I am in the process of settling into a retired life, in a south indian 
city Bangalore. Very pleasant weather, and I own a small and convenient flat in 
the middle of the older Bangalore.

I want to send you a small ambisonics file of a sarus crane calling and I will 
when you tell me how.

Has anything come of brahma with eric Benjamin and co ?

One copy of Brahma (standalone) is now with Richard Lee in Australia. He has 
made some suggestions to improve the quality of the microphone it is quite 
simple to do and Nakul will implement and measure a microphone with it. 
Basically it involves expanding the four holes in the tetrahedral array. They 
are three sided and they can be expanded with an 8 mm drill very carefully ( I 
do it by hand). There a sharp peak at about 3.5 k. it is flattened by the 
calibration system, but richard thinks it would be a far better microphone if 
the peak is reduced before calibration. This will apply to both the standalone 
microphone and Brahma in Zoom. If you want to do it, it will need recalibration 
after the surgery. I post you a photo of what needs to be done. 

Sold quite a few mics recently. Oculus guys are buying a few.

umashankar
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From: Marc Lavallée
Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2015 8:29 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: [Sursound] A new home for Ambisonia


Dear sursounders.

TL;DR
There a new Ambisonia.com.
It's a static version, without login.
I can add new contributions manually.

Here are the details:

The Ambisonia.com collaborative web site was just retired from
University of York, where it was hosted for a bit more than 3 years,
thanks to the joint efforts of Etienne Deleflie who accepted my request
to put Ambisonia back online, Dave Malham who accepted to host the web
site at York, and Oliver Larkin who setup and maintained a server to
connect the hard drive sent by Etienne.

At the time, my original plan was to fix the resurrected site, and
migrate it to add new features. I did fix the torrent download system,
but I did not add new features; the main reason was that the Plone
content management system used to build and run Ambisonia was obsolete,
and I was unable to migrate it to a newer version. Recurring problems
made it necessary to disconnect the wiki, later followed by the
registration system, then the database started to show signs of
corruption. Ambisonia needed a new home...

So I exported all relational data to JSON files, and built a static
version as a starting point, without a content management system, minus
the wiki. In the process, I discovered the rich collection of
contributions, and I decided to put an emphasis on the content. I hope
that you will appreciate the new fluid layout, the overall simplicity,
and the direct download links (!!). But please don't mirror the web
site to create a personal archive; the total size is 36GB and the
monthly allowed bandwidth is 600.00 GB. If the bandwidth requirement
exceeds this limit, I may ask for help ($$).

Most of the urls were kept as in the original web site, to avoid broken
urls on other web sites. Ambisonic contributions are still geolocalized
(if the location was provided), but I favoured OpenStreetMap over
GooleMaps. The images provided and the copyright info are easier to see.

Although I could stop developing Ambisonia and leave it as an archive,
I'd like it to be a starting point for the next version of Ambisonia,
still as a collaborative web site, to respect the original intent.
Here's the agenda, opened for (private) discussion:
- Add a preview player (the one I developed on http://ambisonic.xyz)
- Add a download mirroring system (so bandwidth could be shared).
- Choose a new framework to build a new dynamic web site,
  in order to reactivate collaborative mechanisms.

Some people asked me how they can contribute new content. I can accept
new content, but I'd have to publish it "manually". That's fine for now,
because it could help me find a simple contribution mechanism that would
not require the entire site to be dynamic, hence reducing complexity
and risks of system corruption.

Ok, I better stop now...

--
Marc 
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Re: [Sursound] ambisonics dronining

[umashankar manthravadi]

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[Sursound] ambisonics dronining

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