Re: [Sursound] External phantom battery source for TetraMic PPAc

[Paul Hodges]

--On 25 July 2016 18:20 +0200 David Pickett  wrote:

> Yes; but in my experience this is more predictable than how or when
> Murphy will strike!

However, Murphy can strike whatever system you are using, so choosing
one rather than another is no guarantee...

Paul

-- 
Paul Hodges

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Re: [Sursound] External phantom battery source for TetraMic PPAc

[David Pickett]

At 11:40 25-07-16, Richard Lee wrote:
>> Most days I would agree with you: but there is always Murphy's Law to
>contend with, and the specific case of this states that a PP3-powered
>recording device will fail only when a unique event is to be recorded.
>
>Ha!  In my limited experience, Murphy is MUCH more likely to strike at
>rechargeable batteries.  8>D
>
>You find, far too late, that you haven't charged them properly or they no
>longer retain charge properly.

Yes; but in my experience this is more predictable than how or when 
Murphy will strike!


>If you use rechargeables, I suggest you have a new alkaline PP3 or two in
>your spares kit with the correct connector.

Talking about connectors -- those to PP3 batteries, like these: 
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-X-HARD-PLASTIC-PP3-9V-BATTERY-CLIP-SNAP-ON-CONNECTOR-145MM-CABLE-LEAD-SNAPS-/280832811783 
often have very thin wires, and I had one break off a couple of 
months ago, with nearly totally disastrous results.  I replaced the 
assembly with a snap in holder.


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Re: [Sursound] External phantom battery source for TetraMic PPAc

[Richard Lee]

> Most days I would agree with you: but there is always Murphy's Law to 
contend with, and the specific case of this states that a PP3-powered 
recording device will fail only when a unique event is to be recorded.

Ha!  In my limited experience, Murphy is MUCH more likely to strike at 
rechargeable batteries.  8>D

You find, far too late, that you haven't charged them properly or they no 
longer retain charge properly.  Battery tech is improving day by day but 
Alkalines are still near the top of the list for convenient reliable power.

If you use rechargeables, I suggest you have a new alkaline PP3 or two in 
your spares kit with the correct connector.

I've never had new Alkalines from the big makers, Duracell, Energiser, GP 
etc fail on me.  I'd be wary of OEM batteries though .. especially 
supermarket own name brands.  In Oz, the Jaycar Eclipse brand seems OK.

DO NOT USE ZINC CARBON CELLS FOR ANYTHING.  Alkalines ALWAYS work out 
cheaper regardless of application.

BTW, the 10 hr life I mentioned is for an end voltage of 8V but PPAc will 
work fine to lower voltages.  I mention 10 hrs as that should see most 
recording events & concerts with ample safety factor.  It's cheap insurance 
to always use a new one.
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Re: [Sursound] External phantom battery source for TetraMic PPAc

[Chris]

Excellent points - thank you.

Chris Woolf


On 24-Jul-16 12:54, Fons Adriaensen wrote:

On Sun, Jul 24, 2016 at 10:49:47AM +0100, Chris wrote:


But does that mean that the impedance converters of the capsules are
running on the 9V supply?

If so, does the max SPL suffer, as it does on most microphones
running off reduced supplies? On P48 I'm guessing the Class A stages
run from ~30V rails.

Capsule sensitivity is 7 mV / Pa. At 135 dB SPL output will
be close to 0 dBu, which should be OK for a 9V supply.

Ciao,




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Re: [Sursound] External phantom battery source for TetraMic PPAc

[Fons Adriaensen]

On Sun, Jul 24, 2016 at 10:49:47AM +0100, Chris wrote:

> But does that mean that the impedance converters of the capsules are
> running on the 9V supply?
> 
> If so, does the max SPL suffer, as it does on most microphones
> running off reduced supplies? On P48 I'm guessing the Class A stages
> run from ~30V rails.

Capsule sensitivity is 7 mV / Pa. At 135 dB SPL output will
be close to 0 dBu, which should be OK for a 9V supply.

Ciao,

-- 
FA

A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)

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Re: [Sursound] External phantom battery source for TetraMic PPAc

[Chris]

Useful comments, Richard. Thank you.

But does that mean that the impedance converters of the capsules are 
running on the 9V supply?


If so, does the max SPL suffer, as it does on most microphones running 
off reduced supplies? On P48 I'm guessing the Class A stages run from 
~30V rails.


Chris Woolf


On 24-Jul-16 06:31, Richard Lee wrote:

The Tetramic spec declares 3.5mA x 4 capsules (=15mA) @48V  - that's

720mW


But to power through the PPac it's 9-12V @<10mA - that's 90- 120mW - a

big difference.

The P48V current consumption is pessimistic.  Powering directly bypasses
the regulation required for P48V.

You also avoid noisy P48V in some (many?) prosumer recorders though PPAc is
pretty immune to this.  It was designed with wall plug adaptors in mind but
do check out the one you want to use.

I use an alkaline PP3 rubber banded to the PPAc.  Make sure you have the
correct connector.

For an important recording, use a new ALKALINE PP3.  Probably 10 hrs life

http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/522.pdf

I regard batteries as consumables and the cost is trivial.  I do stage
sound and find it easier to use new batteries than to try & ensure 24
batteries for 12 radio mikes are all fully charged.

A bag of PP3s costs less and will weigh less than chargers etc

But really anything which will supply 9-12VDC will do.

I've suggested to Len we sell a deluxe PP3 connector with O2-free Cu,
insulated with the scrotums of Cooktown kangaroos, all hand carved from
solid Unobtainium by Virgins .. shut up Lee ... just SHUT UP!
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Re: [Sursound] External phantom battery source for TetraMic PPAc

[Rev Tony Newnham]

and for anything really impportgant, have a backup recording system (or 
2) running in parallel!


It's the "belt, braces and piece of string" scenario.

Every Blessing

Tony


On 23/07/2016 21:58, David Pickett wrote:

At 07:31 24-07-16, Richard Lee wrote:
>
>For an important recording, use a new ALKALINE PP3.  Probably 10 hrs 
life

>
>http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/522.pdf

Most days I would agree with you: but there is always Murphy's Law to 
contend with, and the specific case of this states that a PP3-powered 
recording device will fail only when a unique event is to be recorded 
(c.f. the one that got away)!




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Re: [Sursound] External phantom battery source for TetraMic PPAc

[David Pickett]

At 07:31 24-07-16, Richard Lee wrote:
>
>For an important recording, use a new ALKALINE PP3.  Probably 10 hrs life
>
>http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/522.pdf

Most days I would agree with you: but there is always Murphy's Law to 
contend with, and the specific case of this states that a PP3-powered 
recording device will fail only when a unique event is to be recorded 
(c.f. the one that got away)!


David

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Re: [Sursound] External phantom battery source for TetraMic PPAc

[Richard Lee]

> The Tetramic spec declares 3.5mA x 4 capsules (=15mA) @48V  - that's 
720mW

> But to power through the PPac it's 9-12V @<10mA - that's 90- 120mW - a 
big difference.

The P48V current consumption is pessimistic.  Powering directly bypasses 
the regulation required for P48V.

You also avoid noisy P48V in some (many?) prosumer recorders though PPAc is 
pretty immune to this.  It was designed with wall plug adaptors in mind but 
do check out the one you want to use.

I use an alkaline PP3 rubber banded to the PPAc.  Make sure you have the 
correct connector.

For an important recording, use a new ALKALINE PP3.  Probably 10 hrs life

http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/522.pdf

I regard batteries as consumables and the cost is trivial.  I do stage 
sound and find it easier to use new batteries than to try & ensure 24 
batteries for 12 radio mikes are all fully charged.

A bag of PP3s costs less and will weigh less than chargers etc

But really anything which will supply 9-12VDC will do.

I've suggested to Len we sell a deluxe PP3 connector with O2-free Cu, 
insulated with the scrotums of Cooktown kangaroos, all hand carved from 
solid Unobtainium by Virgins .. shut up Lee ... just SHUT UP!
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Re: [Sursound] External phantom battery source for TetraMic PPAc

[Chris]

On 23-Jul-16 14:29, David Pickett wrote:



Core Sound says: "When 48 Volt phantom power is not available, PPAc 
can also be powered by an external battery pack or AC power supply 
("wall wart") via a DC power connector (1.7mm) on the PPAc 
transmitter. It requires 9 to 12 Volts DC at 10 mA minimum."


More to the point, what is the MAXIMUM current required?
I scratched my head on that one too. The Tetramic spec declares 3.5mA x 
4 capsules (=15mA) @48V  - that's 720mW
But to power through the PPac it's 9-12V @<10mA - that's 90- 120mW - a 
big difference.


Perhaps Mr Moskowitz can translate for us;}

Chris Woolf


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Re: [Sursound] External phantom battery source for TetraMic PPAc

[David Pickett]

At 04:12 23-07-16, Halasz, Andrew wrote:
>Is anyone using an external battery pack to power the TetraMic via the
>DC connector on the PPAc transmitter?  This is referenced on the Core
>Sound website.  Is there any thing available that suits this purpose?
>
>Running phantom power on my portable recorder to the four mics goes
>through batteries insatiably.  I'm looking for an alternative phantom
>power source.

Core Sound says: "When 48 Volt phantom power is not available, PPAc 
can also be powered by an external battery pack or AC power supply 
("wall wart") via a DC power connector (1.7mm) on the PPAc 
transmitter. It requires 9 to 12 Volts DC at 10 mA minimum."


More to the point, what is the MAXIMUM current required?  If not too 
great, and I cant see why it should be, you could make up your own 
box with LiON batteries.  These and the adaptors are now reasonably 
priced on eBay.  I use four Minolta batteries (NP400) to deliver +/- 
15 volts for powering a couple of THAT1512 amps with ribbon 
mics.  Each battery is rated at 1900 mAh.  At 100 mA drain, that is 
nearly 19 hours.


David

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Re: [Sursound] External phantom battery source for TetraMic PPAc

[Chris]

You could, presumably, tackle this from two directions.

You could use one of the many 9 /12V Li+ powerpacks sold for running 
video camera accessories (see Amazon etc) which should be able to 
provide you with 50 hours or so of phantom running on the PPac.


Or, if you hate DC coaxial connectors as much as I do...

You could run your recorder off a similar (but maybe more professionally 
connectored) supply, and still use the recorder as the P48 supply.


It does slightly depend on what you are recording on, of course.

Chris Woolf



On 23-Jul-16 03:12, Halasz, Andrew wrote:

Is anyone using an external battery pack to power the TetraMic via the DC 
connector on the PPAc transmitter?  This is referenced on the Core Sound 
website.  Is there any thing available that suits this purpose?

Running phantom power on my portable recorder to the four mics goes through 
batteries insatiably.  I'm looking for an alternative phantom power source.

andrew halasz
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[Sursound] External phantom battery source for TetraMic PPAc

[Halasz, Andrew]

Is anyone using an external battery pack to power the TetraMic via the DC 
connector on the PPAc transmitter?  This is referenced on the Core Sound 
website.  Is there any thing available that suits this purpose?

Running phantom power on my portable recorder to the four mics goes through 
batteries insatiably.  I'm looking for an alternative phantom power source.

andrew halasz
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