Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers
Has anyone tried a system that was using the Z506 model for Logitech? In 2007 I played with some Logitech X-140 speakers. Was enough to convince me ambisonics works. The spatialisation was actually very convincing. http://mchapman.com/amb/hardware Michael ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers
Bearcat M. Şándor wrote: Since we're talking about this, I've had my eye on Emotiva Stealth 8s http://www.emotivapro.com/products/stealth-8 . I assume they (or the upcoming Stealth 88 which adds an additional 8 driver) would do just fine for an ambisonic installation? Now i just need to be able to afford 18 of those things.. :-) well if I were a millionaire the Genelec HT series look very nice. More seriously, I did some time ago do a bit of searching about active speakers just for home use. One possible issue could be back ported vs front ported, your link looks like back ported, which could (so I have read - no experience) have bass issues if placed close to walls. Another thing I read albeit by an amateur reviewer about a specific studio monitor, is that he said they wouldn't be much use for home hifi use as the sweet spot was very narrow. Just one opinion about one speaker of course, but something worth looking into. I have also read the studio monitors are fine for home hifi use. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers
Actually, a square or rectangular decoder's outputs are such that if all four outputs are mixed together in equal amounts, the directional components (X and Y) will cancel out automatically leaving just the W - which is generally what would be sent to the sub... Dave On 21 October 2013 01:11, Marc Lavallée m...@hacklava.net wrote: Matthew Palmer palme...@mymail.vcu.edu a écrit : I'm wondering if it (4 sets of Logitechs) can give me 3d gratification for a little over $200. I know I'm definitely sacrificing quality but it will take me ages to save up for a proper set-up. I don't understand what kind of amplifier would be needed though. Yes! 4 small speakers with one sub are enough as a starting point: I suggest reading Localization in Horizontal-Only Ambisonic Systems : http://www.ai.sri.com/ajh/ambisonics/BLaH1.pdf Use a square or rectangular configuration, and drive the sub with the W ambisonic channel; you can use a multimedia 5.1 kit (with integrated amplifiers), but the sub should be driven separately, not by a mix of the 4 decoded speaker channels (that's my comprehension). For un-amplified speakers, you can use cheap D-class amps. I don't fully understand what cross-over frequency is (it sounds obvious though) but maybe by reducing the center channels from the set-up , I'd reduce the amount that is happening. I would not use the centre channel; there are experimental 5.1 decoders but I never tried. The cross-over frequency is between the sub-woofer and the satellites. Ambisonics works well at low frequencies in small rooms, at least down to the Schroeder frequency (usually around 150Hz, depending on your room size and acoustic treatment). That's why 300Hz is a bit high, but it's not catastrophic. Ambisonics with height is possible with a 3D7.1 configuration (using a 7.1 speaker kit). I yet have to try it. -- Marc On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 7:12 PM, Charlie Richmond charlie@gmail.comwrote: On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Marc Lavallée m...@hacklava.net wrote: What matters is rigidity; if a plastic enclosure is rigid enough (for its size), then it would sound the same than a hard wood enclosure. In the specific case of the Z506 model from Logitech, wooden enclosures for the satellites would make no difference; the drivers, the amps, and the enclosures are too small to shake. Only the sub-woofer enclosure is made of MDF, for a reason. So, why not using the Z506 5.1 kit from Logitech? Multimedia speakers are primarily designed as computer accessories; some are probably well made, excluding the one in the MoMA's permanent collection (unless aesthetic is the most important criteria). I wouldn't trust its sound quality; it's a bit small unless the listening distance is less than 2 meters, the centre speaker does not match the four other satellites, the centre speaker have 2 mids and the satellites have one mid and one tweeter, and the cross-over frequency for the sub-woofer is probably near 300Hz, which is a bit too high. For Ambisonics, I believe that better quality full-range or coaxial speakers, all matched, should be preferred. I would only such use small multimedia speakers for a very compact periphonic installation, along with 4 to 8 small sub-woofers for a supplemental horizontal or periphonic low frequency decoder. Agreed. That said, the Logitech self powered systems are generally extremely well made and sound very good, imho. C-) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131020/73b9a2d1/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131020/2bfcc5f5/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131021/c9492ea9/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu
Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers
What is needed between the computer the speakers like how do I get the computer to acknowledge each speaker from say this set ( http://static.clickbd.com/global/classified/item_img/512646_2_original.jpg/ 3.5 mm and six channel direct audio cables (RCA cable not included)) as an individual channel? On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 6:17 AM, Dave Malham dave.mal...@york.ac.uk wrote: Actually, a square or rectangular decoder's outputs are such that if all four outputs are mixed together in equal amounts, the directional components (X and Y) will cancel out automatically leaving just the W - which is generally what would be sent to the sub... Dave On 21 October 2013 01:11, Marc Lavallée m...@hacklava.net wrote: Matthew Palmer palme...@mymail.vcu.edu a écrit : I'm wondering if it (4 sets of Logitechs) can give me 3d gratification for a little over $200. I know I'm definitely sacrificing quality but it will take me ages to save up for a proper set-up. I don't understand what kind of amplifier would be needed though. Yes! 4 small speakers with one sub are enough as a starting point: I suggest reading Localization in Horizontal-Only Ambisonic Systems : http://www.ai.sri.com/ajh/ambisonics/BLaH1.pdf Use a square or rectangular configuration, and drive the sub with the W ambisonic channel; you can use a multimedia 5.1 kit (with integrated amplifiers), but the sub should be driven separately, not by a mix of the 4 decoded speaker channels (that's my comprehension). For un-amplified speakers, you can use cheap D-class amps. I don't fully understand what cross-over frequency is (it sounds obvious though) but maybe by reducing the center channels from the set-up , I'd reduce the amount that is happening. I would not use the centre channel; there are experimental 5.1 decoders but I never tried. The cross-over frequency is between the sub-woofer and the satellites. Ambisonics works well at low frequencies in small rooms, at least down to the Schroeder frequency (usually around 150Hz, depending on your room size and acoustic treatment). That's why 300Hz is a bit high, but it's not catastrophic. Ambisonics with height is possible with a 3D7.1 configuration (using a 7.1 speaker kit). I yet have to try it. -- Marc On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 7:12 PM, Charlie Richmond charlie@gmail.comwrote: On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Marc Lavallée m...@hacklava.net wrote: What matters is rigidity; if a plastic enclosure is rigid enough (for its size), then it would sound the same than a hard wood enclosure. In the specific case of the Z506 model from Logitech, wooden enclosures for the satellites would make no difference; the drivers, the amps, and the enclosures are too small to shake. Only the sub-woofer enclosure is made of MDF, for a reason. So, why not using the Z506 5.1 kit from Logitech? Multimedia speakers are primarily designed as computer accessories; some are probably well made, excluding the one in the MoMA's permanent collection (unless aesthetic is the most important criteria). I wouldn't trust its sound quality; it's a bit small unless the listening distance is less than 2 meters, the centre speaker does not match the four other satellites, the centre speaker have 2 mids and the satellites have one mid and one tweeter, and the cross-over frequency for the sub-woofer is probably near 300Hz, which is a bit too high. For Ambisonics, I believe that better quality full-range or coaxial speakers, all matched, should be preferred. I would only such use small multimedia speakers for a very compact periphonic installation, along with 4 to 8 small sub-woofers for a supplemental horizontal or periphonic low frequency decoder. Agreed. That said, the Logitech self powered systems are generally extremely well made and sound very good, imho. C-) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131020/73b9a2d1/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131020/2bfcc5f5/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These
Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers
this is for the z506 speakers or, Michael, what was your set up when you used the X-140's? On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 4:35 PM, Matthew Palmer palme...@mymail.vcu.eduwrote: What is needed between the computer the speakers like how do I get the computer to acknowledge each speaker from say this set ( http://static.clickbd.com/global/classified/item_img/512646_2_original.jpg/ 3.5 mm and six channel direct audio cables (RCA cable not included)) as an individual channel? On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 6:17 AM, Dave Malham dave.mal...@york.ac.ukwrote: Actually, a square or rectangular decoder's outputs are such that if all four outputs are mixed together in equal amounts, the directional components (X and Y) will cancel out automatically leaving just the W - which is generally what would be sent to the sub... Dave On 21 October 2013 01:11, Marc Lavallée m...@hacklava.net wrote: Matthew Palmer palme...@mymail.vcu.edu a écrit : I'm wondering if it (4 sets of Logitechs) can give me 3d gratification for a little over $200. I know I'm definitely sacrificing quality but it will take me ages to save up for a proper set-up. I don't understand what kind of amplifier would be needed though. Yes! 4 small speakers with one sub are enough as a starting point: I suggest reading Localization in Horizontal-Only Ambisonic Systems : http://www.ai.sri.com/ajh/ambisonics/BLaH1.pdf Use a square or rectangular configuration, and drive the sub with the W ambisonic channel; you can use a multimedia 5.1 kit (with integrated amplifiers), but the sub should be driven separately, not by a mix of the 4 decoded speaker channels (that's my comprehension). For un-amplified speakers, you can use cheap D-class amps. I don't fully understand what cross-over frequency is (it sounds obvious though) but maybe by reducing the center channels from the set-up , I'd reduce the amount that is happening. I would not use the centre channel; there are experimental 5.1 decoders but I never tried. The cross-over frequency is between the sub-woofer and the satellites. Ambisonics works well at low frequencies in small rooms, at least down to the Schroeder frequency (usually around 150Hz, depending on your room size and acoustic treatment). That's why 300Hz is a bit high, but it's not catastrophic. Ambisonics with height is possible with a 3D7.1 configuration (using a 7.1 speaker kit). I yet have to try it. -- Marc On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 7:12 PM, Charlie Richmond charlie@gmail.comwrote: On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Marc Lavallée m...@hacklava.net wrote: What matters is rigidity; if a plastic enclosure is rigid enough (for its size), then it would sound the same than a hard wood enclosure. In the specific case of the Z506 model from Logitech, wooden enclosures for the satellites would make no difference; the drivers, the amps, and the enclosures are too small to shake. Only the sub-woofer enclosure is made of MDF, for a reason. So, why not using the Z506 5.1 kit from Logitech? Multimedia speakers are primarily designed as computer accessories; some are probably well made, excluding the one in the MoMA's permanent collection (unless aesthetic is the most important criteria). I wouldn't trust its sound quality; it's a bit small unless the listening distance is less than 2 meters, the centre speaker does not match the four other satellites, the centre speaker have 2 mids and the satellites have one mid and one tweeter, and the cross-over frequency for the sub-woofer is probably near 300Hz, which is a bit too high. For Ambisonics, I believe that better quality full-range or coaxial speakers, all matched, should be preferred. I would only such use small multimedia speakers for a very compact periphonic installation, along with 4 to 8 small sub-woofers for a supplemental horizontal or periphonic low frequency decoder. Agreed. That said, the Logitech self powered systems are generally extremely well made and sound very good, imho. C-) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131020/73b9a2d1/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131020/2bfcc5f5/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___
Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers
Has anyone tried a system that was using the Z506 model for Logitech? -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131020/4bbdc1bd/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers
Have ever heard the difference between wood and plastic enclosures...? Wood is more natural... no pun intended. Plastic is problematic... loss of detail, rattles in high dynamics, plastic has a howled presentation to boot! Logitech is near field... you will push the amp and motor of speakers into DC Cheers!!! Andrew Castiglione Retired WDI A/V - Imagineer Think awesome, build awesome and be awesome. -Original Message- From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Matthew Palmer Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2013 6:16 AM To: Surround Sound discussion group Subject: Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers Has anyone tried a system that was using the Z506 model for Logitech? -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131020/4bb dc1bd/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers
Andrew Castiglione mpega...@gmail.com a écrit : Have ever heard the difference between wood and plastic enclosures...? Wood is more natural... no pun intended. Plastic is problematic... loss of detail, rattles in high dynamics, plastic has a howled presentation to boot! Logitech is near field... you will push the amp and motor of speakers into DC What matters is rigidity; if a plastic enclosure is rigid enough (for its size), then it would sound the same than a hard wood enclosure. In the specific case of the Z506 model from Logitech, wooden enclosures for the satellites would make no difference; the drivers, the amps, and the enclosures are too small to shake. Only the sub-woofer enclosure is made of MDF, for a reason. So, why not using the Z506 5.1 kit from Logitech? Multimedia speakers are primarily designed as computer accessories; some are probably well made, excluding the one in the MoMA's permanent collection (unless aesthetic is the most important criteria). I wouldn't trust its sound quality; it's a bit small unless the listening distance is less than 2 meters, the centre speaker does not match the four other satellites, the centre speaker have 2 mids and the satellites have one mid and one tweeter, and the cross-over frequency for the sub-woofer is probably near 300Hz, which is a bit too high. For Ambisonics, I believe that better quality full-range or coaxial speakers, all matched, should be preferred. I would only such use small multimedia speakers for a very compact periphonic installation, along with 4 to 8 small sub-woofers for a supplemental horizontal or periphonic low frequency decoder. -- Marc Cheers!!! Andrew Castiglione Retired WDI A/V - Imagineer Think awesome, build awesome and be awesome. -Original Message- From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Matthew Palmer Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2013 6:16 AM To: Surround Sound discussion group Subject: Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers Has anyone tried a system that was using the Z506 model for Logitech? -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131020/4bb dc1bd/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers
Since we're talking about this, I've had my eye on Emotiva Stealth 8s http://www.emotivapro.com/products/stealth-8 . I assume they (or the upcoming Stealth 88 which adds an additional 8 driver) would do just fine for an ambisonic installation? Now i just need to be able to afford 18 of those things.. On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 4:59 PM, Marc Lavallée m...@hacklava.net wrote: Andrew Castiglione mpega...@gmail.com a écrit : Have ever heard the difference between wood and plastic enclosures...? Wood is more natural... no pun intended. Plastic is problematic... loss of detail, rattles in high dynamics, plastic has a howled presentation to boot! Logitech is near field... you will push the amp and motor of speakers into DC What matters is rigidity; if a plastic enclosure is rigid enough (for its size), then it would sound the same than a hard wood enclosure. In the specific case of the Z506 model from Logitech, wooden enclosures for the satellites would make no difference; the drivers, the amps, and the enclosures are too small to shake. Only the sub-woofer enclosure is made of MDF, for a reason. So, why not using the Z506 5.1 kit from Logitech? Multimedia speakers are primarily designed as computer accessories; some are probably well made, excluding the one in the MoMA's permanent collection (unless aesthetic is the most important criteria). I wouldn't trust its sound quality; it's a bit small unless the listening distance is less than 2 meters, the centre speaker does not match the four other satellites, the centre speaker have 2 mids and the satellites have one mid and one tweeter, and the cross-over frequency for the sub-woofer is probably near 300Hz, which is a bit too high. For Ambisonics, I believe that better quality full-range or coaxial speakers, all matched, should be preferred. I would only such use small multimedia speakers for a very compact periphonic installation, along with 4 to 8 small sub-woofers for a supplemental horizontal or periphonic low frequency decoder. -- Marc Cheers!!! Andrew Castiglione Retired WDI A/V - Imagineer Think awesome, build awesome and be awesome. -Original Message- From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Matthew Palmer Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2013 6:16 AM To: Surround Sound discussion group Subject: Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers Has anyone tried a system that was using the Z506 model for Logitech? -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131020/4bb dc1bd/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- Bearcat M. Şándor Feline Soul Systems LLC Voice: 872.CAT.SOUL (872.228.7685) Fax: 406.235.7070 Jabber/xmpp/gtalk/email: bear...@feline-soul.net MSN: bearcatsan...@hotmail.com Yahoo: bearcatsandor AIM: bearcatmsandor My public pgp key is included for verification of my identity -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131020/a8b4ec9b/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers
On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Marc Lavallée m...@hacklava.net wrote: What matters is rigidity; if a plastic enclosure is rigid enough (for its size), then it would sound the same than a hard wood enclosure. In the specific case of the Z506 model from Logitech, wooden enclosures for the satellites would make no difference; the drivers, the amps, and the enclosures are too small to shake. Only the sub-woofer enclosure is made of MDF, for a reason. So, why not using the Z506 5.1 kit from Logitech? Multimedia speakers are primarily designed as computer accessories; some are probably well made, excluding the one in the MoMA's permanent collection (unless aesthetic is the most important criteria). I wouldn't trust its sound quality; it's a bit small unless the listening distance is less than 2 meters, the centre speaker does not match the four other satellites, the centre speaker have 2 mids and the satellites have one mid and one tweeter, and the cross-over frequency for the sub-woofer is probably near 300Hz, which is a bit too high. For Ambisonics, I believe that better quality full-range or coaxial speakers, all matched, should be preferred. I would only such use small multimedia speakers for a very compact periphonic installation, along with 4 to 8 small sub-woofers for a supplemental horizontal or periphonic low frequency decoder. Agreed. That said, the Logitech self powered systems are generally extremely well made and sound very good, imho. C-) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131020/73b9a2d1/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers
I'm wondering if it (4 sets of Logitechs) can give me 3d gratification for a little over $200. I know I'm definitely sacrificing quality but it will take me ages to save up for a proper set-up. I don't understand what kind of amplifier would be needed though. On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 7:12 PM, Charlie Richmond charlie@gmail.comwrote: On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Marc Lavallée m...@hacklava.net wrote: What matters is rigidity; if a plastic enclosure is rigid enough (for its size), then it would sound the same than a hard wood enclosure. In the specific case of the Z506 model from Logitech, wooden enclosures for the satellites would make no difference; the drivers, the amps, and the enclosures are too small to shake. Only the sub-woofer enclosure is made of MDF, for a reason. So, why not using the Z506 5.1 kit from Logitech? Multimedia speakers are primarily designed as computer accessories; some are probably well made, excluding the one in the MoMA's permanent collection (unless aesthetic is the most important criteria). I wouldn't trust its sound quality; it's a bit small unless the listening distance is less than 2 meters, the centre speaker does not match the four other satellites, the centre speaker have 2 mids and the satellites have one mid and one tweeter, and the cross-over frequency for the sub-woofer is probably near 300Hz, which is a bit too high. For Ambisonics, I believe that better quality full-range or coaxial speakers, all matched, should be preferred. I would only such use small multimedia speakers for a very compact periphonic installation, along with 4 to 8 small sub-woofers for a supplemental horizontal or periphonic low frequency decoder. Agreed. That said, the Logitech self powered systems are generally extremely well made and sound very good, imho. C-) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131020/73b9a2d1/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131020/2bfcc5f5/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers
I wouldn't trust its sound quality; it's a bit small unless the listening distance is less than 2 meters, the centre speaker does not match the four other satellites, the centre speaker have 2 mids and the satellites have one mid and one tweeter, and the cross-over frequency for the sub-woofer is probably near 300Hz, which is a bit too high. I don't fully understand what cross-over frequency is (it sounds obvious though) but maybe by reducing the center channels from the set-up , I'd reduce the amount that is happening. On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 7:21 PM, Matthew Palmer palme...@mymail.vcu.eduwrote: I'm wondering if it (4 sets of Logitechs) can give me 3d gratification for a little over $200. I know I'm definitely sacrificing quality but it will take me ages to save up for a proper set-up. I don't understand what kind of amplifier would be needed though. On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 7:12 PM, Charlie Richmond charlie@gmail.comwrote: On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Marc Lavallée m...@hacklava.net wrote: What matters is rigidity; if a plastic enclosure is rigid enough (for its size), then it would sound the same than a hard wood enclosure. In the specific case of the Z506 model from Logitech, wooden enclosures for the satellites would make no difference; the drivers, the amps, and the enclosures are too small to shake. Only the sub-woofer enclosure is made of MDF, for a reason. So, why not using the Z506 5.1 kit from Logitech? Multimedia speakers are primarily designed as computer accessories; some are probably well made, excluding the one in the MoMA's permanent collection (unless aesthetic is the most important criteria). I wouldn't trust its sound quality; it's a bit small unless the listening distance is less than 2 meters, the centre speaker does not match the four other satellites, the centre speaker have 2 mids and the satellites have one mid and one tweeter, and the cross-over frequency for the sub-woofer is probably near 300Hz, which is a bit too high. For Ambisonics, I believe that better quality full-range or coaxial speakers, all matched, should be preferred. I would only such use small multimedia speakers for a very compact periphonic installation, along with 4 to 8 small sub-woofers for a supplemental horizontal or periphonic low frequency decoder. Agreed. That said, the Logitech self powered systems are generally extremely well made and sound very good, imho. C-) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131020/73b9a2d1/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131020/23d7d4c2/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers
On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Matthew Palmer palme...@mymail.vcu.eduwrote: I'm wondering if it (4 sets of Logitechs) can give me 3d gratification for a little over $200. I know I'm definitely sacrificing quality but it will take me ages to save up for a proper set-up. I don't understand what kind of amplifier would be needed though. Logitech and other types of computer-type loudspeaker systems are almost exclusively self powered so no external amplifiers are required. They do expect, however, to be driven by the equivalent of a headphone amplifier using a 3.5mm jack connection. A good low impedance line level output is usually acceptable but does not always provide a high enough voltage level. The input impedance of the integrated amplifier can be fairly low and is never specified so you need to do some testing before purchasing. C-) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131020/d93da2fc/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers
Matthew Palmer palme...@mymail.vcu.edu a écrit : I'm wondering if it (4 sets of Logitechs) can give me 3d gratification for a little over $200. I know I'm definitely sacrificing quality but it will take me ages to save up for a proper set-up. I don't understand what kind of amplifier would be needed though. Yes! 4 small speakers with one sub are enough as a starting point: I suggest reading Localization in Horizontal-Only Ambisonic Systems : http://www.ai.sri.com/ajh/ambisonics/BLaH1.pdf Use a square or rectangular configuration, and drive the sub with the W ambisonic channel; you can use a multimedia 5.1 kit (with integrated amplifiers), but the sub should be driven separately, not by a mix of the 4 decoded speaker channels (that's my comprehension). For un-amplified speakers, you can use cheap D-class amps. I don't fully understand what cross-over frequency is (it sounds obvious though) but maybe by reducing the center channels from the set-up , I'd reduce the amount that is happening. I would not use the centre channel; there are experimental 5.1 decoders but I never tried. The cross-over frequency is between the sub-woofer and the satellites. Ambisonics works well at low frequencies in small rooms, at least down to the Schroeder frequency (usually around 150Hz, depending on your room size and acoustic treatment). That's why 300Hz is a bit high, but it's not catastrophic. Ambisonics with height is possible with a 3D7.1 configuration (using a 7.1 speaker kit). I yet have to try it. -- Marc On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 7:12 PM, Charlie Richmond charlie@gmail.comwrote: On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Marc Lavallée m...@hacklava.net wrote: What matters is rigidity; if a plastic enclosure is rigid enough (for its size), then it would sound the same than a hard wood enclosure. In the specific case of the Z506 model from Logitech, wooden enclosures for the satellites would make no difference; the drivers, the amps, and the enclosures are too small to shake. Only the sub-woofer enclosure is made of MDF, for a reason. So, why not using the Z506 5.1 kit from Logitech? Multimedia speakers are primarily designed as computer accessories; some are probably well made, excluding the one in the MoMA's permanent collection (unless aesthetic is the most important criteria). I wouldn't trust its sound quality; it's a bit small unless the listening distance is less than 2 meters, the centre speaker does not match the four other satellites, the centre speaker have 2 mids and the satellites have one mid and one tweeter, and the cross-over frequency for the sub-woofer is probably near 300Hz, which is a bit too high. For Ambisonics, I believe that better quality full-range or coaxial speakers, all matched, should be preferred. I would only such use small multimedia speakers for a very compact periphonic installation, along with 4 to 8 small sub-woofers for a supplemental horizontal or periphonic low frequency decoder. Agreed. That said, the Logitech self powered systems are generally extremely well made and sound very good, imho. C-) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131020/73b9a2d1/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131020/2bfcc5f5/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers
Thanks so much Marc, Carlie, everyone. - matt On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 8:11 PM, Marc Lavallée m...@hacklava.net wrote: Matthew Palmer palme...@mymail.vcu.edu a écrit : I'm wondering if it (4 sets of Logitechs) can give me 3d gratification for a little over $200. I know I'm definitely sacrificing quality but it will take me ages to save up for a proper set-up. I don't understand what kind of amplifier would be needed though. Yes! 4 small speakers with one sub are enough as a starting point: I suggest reading Localization in Horizontal-Only Ambisonic Systems : http://www.ai.sri.com/ajh/ambisonics/BLaH1.pdf Use a square or rectangular configuration, and drive the sub with the W ambisonic channel; you can use a multimedia 5.1 kit (with integrated amplifiers), but the sub should be driven separately, not by a mix of the 4 decoded speaker channels (that's my comprehension). For un-amplified speakers, you can use cheap D-class amps. I don't fully understand what cross-over frequency is (it sounds obvious though) but maybe by reducing the center channels from the set-up , I'd reduce the amount that is happening. I would not use the centre channel; there are experimental 5.1 decoders but I never tried. The cross-over frequency is between the sub-woofer and the satellites. Ambisonics works well at low frequencies in small rooms, at least down to the Schroeder frequency (usually around 150Hz, depending on your room size and acoustic treatment). That's why 300Hz is a bit high, but it's not catastrophic. Ambisonics with height is possible with a 3D7.1 configuration (using a 7.1 speaker kit). I yet have to try it. -- Marc On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 7:12 PM, Charlie Richmond charlie@gmail.comwrote: On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Marc Lavallée m...@hacklava.net wrote: What matters is rigidity; if a plastic enclosure is rigid enough (for its size), then it would sound the same than a hard wood enclosure. In the specific case of the Z506 model from Logitech, wooden enclosures for the satellites would make no difference; the drivers, the amps, and the enclosures are too small to shake. Only the sub-woofer enclosure is made of MDF, for a reason. So, why not using the Z506 5.1 kit from Logitech? Multimedia speakers are primarily designed as computer accessories; some are probably well made, excluding the one in the MoMA's permanent collection (unless aesthetic is the most important criteria). I wouldn't trust its sound quality; it's a bit small unless the listening distance is less than 2 meters, the centre speaker does not match the four other satellites, the centre speaker have 2 mids and the satellites have one mid and one tweeter, and the cross-over frequency for the sub-woofer is probably near 300Hz, which is a bit too high. For Ambisonics, I believe that better quality full-range or coaxial speakers, all matched, should be preferred. I would only such use small multimedia speakers for a very compact periphonic installation, along with 4 to 8 small sub-woofers for a supplemental horizontal or periphonic low frequency decoder. Agreed. That said, the Logitech self powered systems are generally extremely well made and sound very good, imho. C-) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131020/73b9a2d1/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131020/2bfcc5f5/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131020/1fc4770b/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers
Hi, as somebody of you asked I inform you that I purchased an used set of Creative/Cambridge Soundworks FourPoint Surround FPS 1000. For the price they are great ! Obviously the bass extension is not so great. I'm planning to purchase another set to build an inexpensive 8 channel system. All the best AF 2013/9/25 Alessandro Fogar sfo...@gmail.com Hi, please let me ask a basic question. I'k like to monitor some work of mine realized mainly using ATK and Sc3 i.e. first order ambisonics. Could you plase suggest me some very small and inexpensive speakers ? Something like a Creative or Altec surround system are useless or not ? I listened recently to a installation here in Italy by Jana Winderen (the sound diffusion was made using a set of Logitec speakers) and it was not too bad. Tried to monitor using a binaural decoder but I can't hear the results. Too bad. Many thanks in advance. All the best -- Alessandro Fogar http://www.fogar.it -- Alessandro Fogar http://www.fogar.it -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131010/65604d9c/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
[Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers
Hi, please let me ask a basic question. I'k like to monitor some work of mine realized mainly using ATK and Sc3 i.e. first order ambisonics. Could you plase suggest me some very small and inexpensive speakers ? Something like a Creative or Altec surround system are useless or not ? I listened recently to a installation here in Italy by Jana Winderen (the sound diffusion was made using a set of Logitec speakers) and it was not too bad. Tried to monitor using a binaural decoder but I can't hear the results. Too bad. Many thanks in advance. All the best -- Alessandro Fogar http://www.fogar.it -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130925/10d25e5e/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers
Hi Alessadro, How many speakers do you need exactly and what is your budget ? On 25 September 2013 14:47, Alessandro Fogar sfo...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, please let me ask a basic question. I'k like to monitor some work of mine realized mainly using ATK and Sc3 i.e. first order ambisonics. Could you plase suggest me some very small and inexpensive speakers ? Something like a Creative or Altec surround system are useless or not ? I listened recently to a installation here in Italy by Jana Winderen (the sound diffusion was made using a set of Logitec speakers) and it was not too bad. Tried to monitor using a binaural decoder but I can't hear the results. Too bad. Many thanks in advance. All the best -- Alessandro Fogar http://www.fogar.it -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130925/10d25e5e/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- 07580951119 augustine.leudar.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130925/d0bc7dd6/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers
Hi Augustine, at the moment I'm really on a low budget. 4 speakers. I was thinking about those low end Creative (or similar systems). This adds to my main monitor speakers (Event 20/20 BAS), my Leema Xero hi-fi speakers and to other 6 speakers (3 different pairs). All the best AF Hi Alessadro, How many speakers do you need exactly and what is your budget ? On 25 September 2013 14:47, Alessandro Fogar sfogar at gmail.com https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound wrote: * Hi, please let me ask a basic question. I'k like to monitor some work of mine realized mainly using ATK and Sc3** i.e. first order ambisonics. Could you plase suggest me some very small and inexpensive speakers ? Something like a Creative or Altec surround system are useless or not ? I listened recently to a installation here in Italy by Jana Winderen (the** sound diffusion was made using a set of Logitec speakers) and it was not** too bad. Tried to monitor using a binaural decoder but I can't hear the results. Too** bad. Many thanks in advance. All the best --** Alessandro Fogar http://www.fogar.it* -- Alessandro Fogar http://www.fogar.it -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130925/b46501ee/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers
Hi, please let me ask a basic question. I'k like to monitor some work of mine realized mainly using ATK and Sc3 i.e. first order ambisonics. Could you plase suggest me some very small and inexpensive speakers ? Sorry not a direct answer. But it has been said on here (apologies forget who) that as the number of speakers increase, then the quality becomes less 'relevant' --- that is a multi-speaker array seems more forgiving. Think the least I've paid is 20CHF (about 15 euro at the time) per pair. They were so bad that DRC made them sound worse ..., but still got a recognisable (and in its way impressive) 3-D image. What one is listening to must be a big, big factor. Fireworks, helicopters, jet planes cause less listener outrage than a well known classical concert piece . . . suspect cutting edge 'contemprary' music will avoid criticism (unless the audience really know the piece). Whatever, _please_ do report back on what you finally do. It may be anecdotal, but the more 'weight' to non-'evidence based' knowledge the better. Michael ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers
I used four sets of Logitech 5.1 speakers (leaving out the centre speaker) for a young friend's Masters final major project at Bath Spa University earlier this year and the results were stunning - they were arranged as upper and lower octagons using 3rd order amb. for direct audio and 1st order amb. for convolution reverb (in the b-format domain using York Uni impulse response of York Minster) - all the software was in Max/MSP and used the ICST externals. The speakers were helped by the active bass management in the accompanying subwoofers (all 4 of them) ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers
Hi, do you remember perhaps the model ? The Z506 are affordable, but other models are expensive. Many thanks. All the best AF I used four sets of Logitech 5.1 speakers (leaving out the centre speaker) for a young friend's Masters final major project at Bath Spa University earlier this year and the results were stunning - they were arranged as upper and lower octagons using 3rd order amb. for direct audio and 1st order amb. for convolution reverb (in the b-format domain using York Uni impulse response of York Minster) - all the software was in Max/MSP and used the ICST externals. The speakers were helped by the active bass management in the accompanying subwoofers (all 4 of them) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130925/e175ac30/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers
At 15:47 25-09-13, Alessandro Fogar wrote: I'k like to monitor some work of mine realized mainly using ATK and Sc3 i.e. first order ambisonics. Could you plase suggest me some very small and inexpensive speakers ? How about two pairs of these: http://www.stereophile.com/content/pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-loudspeaker David ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers
I like the Creative/Cambridge SoundWorks FPS1000 a lot. You can only get them used. They're cheap and not nice to look at, but they have great sound. On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 9:45 PM, David Pickett d...@fugato.com wrote: At 15:47 25-09-13, Alessandro Fogar wrote: I'k like to monitor some work of mine realized mainly using ATK and Sc3 i.e. first order ambisonics. Could you plase suggest me some very small and inexpensive speakers ? How about two pairs of these: http://www.stereophile.com/** content/pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-**loudspeakerhttp://www.stereophile.com/content/pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-loudspeaker David __**_ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/**mailman/listinfo/sursoundhttps://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130925/fc0399bc/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers
I see a used set of 4 of the Cambridge SoundWorks FPS1000 cubes on Ebay for $40 USD. Michael Graves mgraves mstvp.com o(713) 861-4005 c(713) 201-1262 sip:mgra...@mjg.onsip.com skype mjgraves Original Message Subject: Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers From: Sven Thebert sventheb...@gmail.com Date: Wed, September 25, 2013 3:23 pm To: Surround Sound discussion group sursound@music.vt.edu I like the Creative/Cambridge SoundWorks FPS1000 a lot. You can only get them used. They're cheap and not nice to look at, but they have great sound. On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 9:45 PM, David Pickett d...@fugato.com wrote: At 15:47 25-09-13, Alessandro Fogar wrote: I'k like to monitor some work of mine realized mainly using ATK and Sc3 i.e. first order ambisonics. Could you plase suggest me some very small and inexpensive speakers ? How about two pairs of these: http://www.stereophile.com/** content/pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-**loudspeakerhttp://www.stereophile.com/content/pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-loudspeaker David __**_ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/**mailman/listinfo/sursoundhttps://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130925/fc0399bc/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers
I worked with 4 systems during my bachelor's thesis and build a 2nd order ambisonics system (octagon horizontal plus cube for height). Since then I listen to them every day (not ambisonic and not all speakers, but my daily podcasts and music in stereo). I think they are one of the first designs of Creative in connection with Cambridge Soundworks. The follow-up systems sound different and not so good in my opinion. On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:31 PM, mgra...@mstvp.com wrote: I see a used set of 4 of the Cambridge SoundWorks FPS1000 cubes on Ebay for $40 USD. Michael Graves mgraves mstvp.com o(713) 861-4005 c(713) 201-1262 sip:mgra...@mjg.onsip.com skype mjgraves Original Message Subject: Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers From: Sven Thebert sventheb...@gmail.com Date: Wed, September 25, 2013 3:23 pm To: Surround Sound discussion group sursound@music.vt.edu I like the Creative/Cambridge SoundWorks FPS1000 a lot. You can only get them used. They're cheap and not nice to look at, but they have great sound. On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 9:45 PM, David Pickett d...@fugato.com wrote: At 15:47 25-09-13, Alessandro Fogar wrote: I'k like to monitor some work of mine realized mainly using ATK and Sc3 i.e. first order ambisonics. Could you plase suggest me some very small and inexpensive speakers ? How about two pairs of these: http://www.stereophile.com/** content/pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-**loudspeaker http://www.stereophile.com/content/pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-loudspeaker David __**_ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/**mailman/listinfo/sursound https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130925/fc0399bc/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130925/527e5a42/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
