Re: [Sursound] binaural to FOA?

[Sampo Syreeni]

On 2021-03-05, Ralph Glasgal wrote:

Checkout the AES papers at www.ambiophonics.org.  But basically if you 
have a front pair that was recorded with accurate values of ITD and 
ILD and a rear pair isolated from the front that also has accurate ITD 
and ILD then you can have a full circles of very realistic sound in 
the horizontal plane using RACE, BACCH or similar crosstalk 
cancellation apps with just four speakers.


I've been down and under for quite the number of months now, or even a 
couple of years, thanks to COVID-19. Sorry. As such, let me return into 
the fray for a while?


Binaural to FOA is an underdetermined problem, mathematically speaking. 
It's two nasty channels to four straight. That means that if you want to 
somehow "solve" the inverse problem, you will have to bring in hard a 
priori knowledge.


Statically you cannot have that knowledge. If the ears stay put, it 
remains a linear underdetermined problem.


However if the ears move, you can posit the problem as a superresolution 
one. In space/orientation. Any steady sound source can be taken as a 
probe of the binaural soundscape, and the HRTF. You *can* in fact do 
statistical inverse MIMO analysis of if, as long as you have some a 
priori knowledge of the signal's true statistics.


That means you *do* tend to be privy to some a priori information, 
towards the solution of the binaural-to-FOA (HOA?) problem. It's just 
that you'd need to know or infer which way the ear-pair were, from 
auditory analysis alone, given a binaural reference, found out by 
automation.


It *can* be done. It's only that the inverse problem is a highly 
dynamical one, and one which hasn't been solved, nay, even attempted at 
yet.

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Re: [Sursound] binaural to FOA?

[Sampo Syreeni]

On 2021-03-05, Ralph Glasgal wrote:

Well, I think 2.0, 4.0, 5.1, etc. sources can be spatialized using 
Ambiophonics which is not just for audiophiles but for video sound 
tracks and any form of industrial surround localization.


Certainly, and I'm known to like the technique.

I'm also known to like physical acoustics, as represented by HOA and 
WFS. Abmbiophoics is definitely not a something else; cheaper, maybe 
better, but nothing going near the physical acoustical ideal.


For example, only the physioacoustical reproduction methods can ever 
achieve full auditory parallax. That is, at full, the possibility of 
walking around and jumping over a sound source, while fully perceiving 
it as being "there".

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Re: [Sursound] binaural to FOA?

[Sampo Syreeni]

On 2021-03-05, Augustine Leudar wrote:


You can try Spats Transaural thing. [...]


Theoretically you cannot gather any more information from a static 
binaural recording than the first and second spherical harmonics. 
W and X.


Dynamically, and using something like onset-offset-thinking, and 
phasing, you can gather a whole lot more. Presuming the microphones 
moves and the pinnae around them keep even semi-constant.

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Re: [Sursound] binaural to FOA?

[Sampo Syreeni]

On 2021-03-04, Marc Lavallée wrote:

Mike, I already know how to use the ATK kernels in custom applications 
(a bit of convolution and the job is done).


It's not quite that easy. Going from FOA (especially HOA) to binaural is 
rather easy, since you only have to average over the spherical harmonics 
and integrate over your HRTFs.


The other way, it's far more complicated, because the equations are 
under-determined, instead of over-. You have to be be able to bring in 
some a priori knowledge to fill in the gap, if you want to do it right, 
and then the prerequisite knowledge just isn't here just yet.


In *theory* you can filter out the higher spatial harmonics brought in 
by the pinna, and in *theory* you can at least in the lower spectrum 
work out something right out of the separated microphones (at pinnae). 
But in practice, that will be high science, and doing it right calls for 
assumptions which we cannot readily formalise. They wouldn't be within 
the ambit of linear signal processing, either, but within highly dynamic 
psychoacoustics. If done optimally.

--
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Re: [Sursound] binaural to FOA?

[Sampo Syreeni]

On 2021-03-04, Augustine Leudar wrote:


So I wondered; is there a method to "convert" binaural to
horizontal-only FOA?


Jumping in, after the fact.

*If you know the transfer function which led to the binaural rendition, 
especially in movement, you essentially have in your hands an "infinite 
order" system of equations, to be solved. Theoretically, you can solve 
the sparse system represented in time for pretty much any and all 
ambisonic systems. As long as it moves; if it doesn't, it'll yield just 
two degrees of freedom, and those will be well mixed against even the 
first order WXYZ-degrees.

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Re: [Sursound] binaural to FOA?

[Ralph Glasgal]

Well, I think 2.0, 4.0, 5.1, etc. sources can be spatialized using Ambiophonics 
which is not just for audiophiles but for video sound tracks and any form of 
industrial surround localization.  The end result and applications are quite 
similar to Ambisonics even if the tools and software are not the same.

Ralph

-Original Message-
From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Marc Lavallée
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2021 2:47 PM
To: sursound@music.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [Sursound] binaural to FOA?

Yes, I know about ambiophonics... But ambiophonics would not work at all 
for my use case.

I need an Ambisonics workflow, to work with both FOA and/or 
stereo/binaural sources in order to spatialize them in different ways, 
then later decide the final rendering options. It's for an interactive 
installation, not for an audiophile system.

Thanks anyway for the suggestion.

Marc

Le 21-03-05 à 14 h 38, Ralph Glasgal a écrit :
> Checkout the AES papers at www.ambiophonics.org.  But basically if you have a 
> front pair that was recorded with accurate values of ITD and ILD and a rear 
> pair isolated from the front that also has accurate ITD and ILD then you can 
> have a full circles of very realistic sound in the horizontal plane using 
> RACE, BACCH or similar crosstalk cancellation apps with just four speakers.  
> You use one pair in front less than 20 degrees apart and one to the rear at a 
> similar angle.  This insures that you can have a lots of listeners along the 
> center line.  SQ or 4.0 SACDs sound fantastic this this way and the system is 
> relatively non critical as to angles and speaker positions.  Loudspeaker 
> binaural (4 speaker  type) is also a lot more pinna friendly since the 
> speakers are central/frontal for dialog soloists, etc.  If you make 4.0 
> recordings using an Ambiophone then the front and back pairs are isolated and 
> proper ITD and ILD values are preserved and available to be deliver intact as 
> described above.
>
> Anyone in the NYC area is welcome to hear this in person.  Height ambience is 
> also provided for classical music but that is another topic and one can also 
> provide envelopment and a rear concert hall ambience for older 2.0 sources 
> like LPs.  Incidentally, in my experience off side Ambiophonics sounds a lot 
> better than off position Ambisonics probably because both left and right 
> channels are being outputted by both speakers or if one is close to a side 
> speaker one hears good mono.
>
> Regards,
> Ralph Glasgal
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Dave Hunt
> Sent: Friday, March 05, 2021 6:44 AM
> To: sursound@music.vt.edu
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] binaural to FOA?
>
> Hi Marc,
>
> Yes, this is very difficult to do properly but a simple bodge is surprisingly 
> effective. Undoing the built in binaural encoding from the original recording 
> is next to impossible.
>
> I have done what is suggested in the ambisonic.net sources in Max. XY or 
> polar coordinates place the left and right channels at variable points on a 
> circle in a 1st order ambisonic encoder, giving a basic B-format output. This 
> image can then be rotated by fairly simple maths to alter the coordinates of 
> both channels together, or by rotating the B-format signal. The rest is done 
> by an ambisonic decoder.
>
> Once in B-format, the WXY components can be manipulated; gain, eq, 
> directional dominance. You can also apply a Z coordinate to move the image up 
> and down.
>
> The result is undeniably diffuse, but usable. Generally binaural recordings 
> sound OK as normal stereo, obviously without the proper spatial impression.
>
> Interesting effects are also achieved by treating stereo as UHJ and deriving 
> B-Format from that. I think there is something on that on ambisonic.net, as 
> well as super stereo and Dolby stereo.
>
> Transaural crosstalk cancellation only works over a very small area, and 
> becomes more complex for quad. Many such systems go for some form of closely 
> spaced dipole speaker layout, possibly with extra speakers. The University of 
> Southampton had something like that, but references might take some finding.
>
> Ciao,
>
> Dave Hunt
>
>
>> On 4 Mar 2021, at 17:00, sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu wrote:
>>
>> From: Marc Lavallée 
>> Subject: [Sursound] binaural to FOA?
>> Date: 4 March 2021 at 13:55:42 GMT
>> To: Surround Sound discussion group 
>>
>>
>> I have a "back to the basics" question.
>>
>> For a simple project I planned to record in FOA or HOA, but the final render 
>> would be in simple quad (horizontal). So I don't need a lot of resolution. I 
>> enjoy recording wit

Re: [Sursound] binaural to FOA?

[Joseph Anderson]

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 2:42 AM Fons Adriaensen  wrote:

> That said, not all is lost.
>
> Conversion from binaural to stereo is possible using
> something similar to
>
> <
> http://kokkinizita.linuxaudio.org/linuxaudio/zita-bls1-doc/quickguide.html
> >


Fons, it's nice to see a practical implementation of the Blumlein Shuffler!


My best,


*Dr Joseph Anderson | Research Scientist*

DXARTS, Box 353414

University of Washington

Seattle, WA 98195-3680



http://www.dxarts.washington.edu


Subscribe to our events list 
to receive email updates about lectures, performances, exhibitions and more.
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Re: [Sursound] binaural to FOA?

[Ralph Glasgal]

Checkout the AES papers at www.ambiophonics.org.  But basically if you have a 
front pair that was recorded with accurate values of ITD and ILD and a rear 
pair isolated from the front that also has accurate ITD and ILD then you can 
have a full circles of very realistic sound in the horizontal plane using RACE, 
BACCH or similar crosstalk cancellation apps with just four speakers.  You use 
one pair in front less than 20 degrees apart and one to the rear at a similar 
angle.  This insures that you can have a lots of listeners along the center 
line.  SQ or 4.0 SACDs sound fantastic this this way and the system is 
relatively non critical as to angles and speaker positions.  Loudspeaker 
binaural (4 speaker  type) is also a lot more pinna friendly since the speakers 
are central/frontal for dialog soloists, etc.  If you make 4.0 recordings using 
an Ambiophone then the front and back pairs are isolated and proper ITD and ILD 
values are preserved and available to be deliver intact as described above.

Anyone in the NYC area is welcome to hear this in person.  Height ambience is 
also provided for classical music but that is another topic and one can also 
provide envelopment and a rear concert hall ambience for older 2.0 sources like 
LPs.  Incidentally, in my experience off side Ambiophonics sounds a lot better 
than off position Ambisonics probably because both left and right channels are 
being outputted by both speakers or if one is close to a side speaker one hears 
good mono.

Regards,
Ralph Glasgal 

-Original Message-
From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Dave Hunt
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2021 6:44 AM
To: sursound@music.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [Sursound] binaural to FOA?

Hi Marc,

Yes, this is very difficult to do properly but a simple bodge is surprisingly 
effective. Undoing the built in binaural encoding from the original recording 
is next to impossible.

I have done what is suggested in the ambisonic.net sources in Max. XY or polar 
coordinates place the left and right channels at variable points on a circle in 
a 1st order ambisonic encoder, giving a basic B-format output. This image can 
then be rotated by fairly simple maths to alter the coordinates of both 
channels together, or by rotating the B-format signal. The rest is done by an 
ambisonic decoder.

Once in B-format, the WXY components can be manipulated; gain, eq, directional 
dominance. You can also apply a Z coordinate to move the image up and down.

The result is undeniably diffuse, but usable. Generally binaural recordings 
sound OK as normal stereo, obviously without the proper spatial impression.

Interesting effects are also achieved by treating stereo as UHJ and deriving 
B-Format from that. I think there is something on that on ambisonic.net, as 
well as super stereo and Dolby stereo.

Transaural crosstalk cancellation only works over a very small area, and 
becomes more complex for quad. Many such systems go for some form of closely 
spaced dipole speaker layout, possibly with extra speakers. The University of 
Southampton had something like that, but references might take some finding.

Ciao,

Dave Hunt


> On 4 Mar 2021, at 17:00, sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu wrote:
> 
> From: Marc Lavallée 
> Subject: [Sursound] binaural to FOA?
> Date: 4 March 2021 at 13:55:42 GMT
> To: Surround Sound discussion group 
> 
> 
> I have a "back to the basics" question.
> 
> For a simple project I planned to record in FOA or HOA, but the final render 
> would be in simple quad (horizontal). So I don't need a lot of resolution. I 
> enjoy recording with binaural microphones (the kind that looks like cheap 
> earbuds), so I can record continuously without being noticed.
> 
> So I wondered; is there a method to "convert" binaural to horizontal-only 
> FOA? Apparently there is:
> 
> https://www.ambisonic.net/quaduhj.html
> 
> http://www.ambisonic.net/ambimix.html
> 
> I guess my question is: what would be the software equivalent of a pan-rotate 
> device?
> 
> Marc

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Re: [Sursound] binaural to FOA?

[Marc Lavallée]

I tried BACHH4Mac, using my Soundman "things" as measurement microphones 
with my old Zoom H2; Edgar Choueiri would not agree with my choice of 
"in-ear" microphones and audio interface, but I'm not much of an 
audiophile/scientific type of audio enthusiast. I could try to do the 
same with a diy dummy head, capture the IR and use it in my custom 
software, but maybe that would not work well for all users (and that 
could be against some part of the licensing agreement).


Maybe I can try Spat, but only if the transform from binaural to 
transaural is a linear operation. I need IRs because the installation 
will run from a Raspberry Pi, so that's why I like the idea of using the 
Super Stereo ATK kernel.


And I agree, going FOA all the way would be better.

Marc

Le 21-03-05 à 09 h 49, Augustine Leudar a écrit :

You can try Spats Transaural thing. I honestly think you'd be better off
building a quadraphonic installation from scratch rather than trying to
convert things. By all means use your binaural recording s in it - but be
aware the interaural time differences can cause a slight phase difference
between speakers which can lead to comb filtering and a kind "weakening "
of the sound - I've never liked any of my binaural recordings over speakers
(I used those little soundman things)
Good luck!

On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 at 13:01, Marc Lavallée  wrote:


That's what I'm looking for: a simple bodge, to be able to use stereo
and/or binaural recordings that could be available instead of FOA
recordings; I don't want to miss opportunities to record something
interesting because I don't have a 5th order microphone, only for some
interactive entertainment...

Transaural can be amazing, and it could work for my use case...

Thanks for the tips. I may fail miserably, but it's worth a try.

Marc

Le 21-03-05 à 06 h 44, Dave Hunt a écrit :

Hi Marc,

Yes, this is very difficult to do properly but a simple bodge is

surprisingly effective. Undoing the built in binaural encoding from the
original recording is next to impossible.

I have done what is suggested in the ambisonic.net sources in Max. XY

or polar coordinates place the left and right channels at variable points
on a circle in a 1st order ambisonic encoder, giving a basic B-format
output. This image can then be rotated by fairly simple maths to alter the
coordinates of both channels together, or by rotating the B-format signal.
The rest is done by an ambisonic decoder.

Once in B-format, the WXY components can be manipulated; gain, eq,

directional dominance. You can also apply a Z coordinate to move the image
up and down.

The result is undeniably diffuse, but usable. Generally binaural

recordings sound OK as normal stereo, obviously without the proper spatial
impression.

Interesting effects are also achieved by treating stereo as UHJ and

deriving B-Format from that. I think there is something on that on
ambisonic.net, as well as super stereo and Dolby stereo.

Transaural crosstalk cancellation only works over a very small area, and

becomes more complex for quad. Many such systems go for some form of
closely spaced dipole speaker layout, possibly with extra speakers. The
University of Southampton had something like that, but references might
take some finding.

Ciao,

Dave Hunt



On 4 Mar 2021, at 17:00, sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu wrote:

From: Marc Lavallée 
Subject: [Sursound] binaural to FOA?
Date: 4 March 2021 at 13:55:42 GMT
To: Surround Sound discussion group 


I have a "back to the basics" question.

For a simple project I planned to record in FOA or HOA, but the final

render would be in simple quad (horizontal). So I don't need a lot of
resolution. I enjoy recording with binaural microphones (the kind that
looks like cheap earbuds), so I can record continuously without being
noticed.

So I wondered; is there a method to "convert" binaural to

horizontal-only FOA? Apparently there is:

https://www.ambisonic.net/quaduhj.html

http://www.ambisonic.net/ambimix.html

I guess my question is: what would be the software equivalent of a

pan-rotate device?

Marc

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Re: [Sursound] binaural to FOA?

[Augustine Leudar]

You can try Spats Transaural thing. I honestly think you'd be better off
building a quadraphonic installation from scratch rather than trying to
convert things. By all means use your binaural recording s in it - but be
aware the interaural time differences can cause a slight phase difference
between speakers which can lead to comb filtering and a kind "weakening "
of the sound - I've never liked any of my binaural recordings over speakers
(I used those little soundman things)
Good luck!

On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 at 13:01, Marc Lavallée  wrote:

> That's what I'm looking for: a simple bodge, to be able to use stereo
> and/or binaural recordings that could be available instead of FOA
> recordings; I don't want to miss opportunities to record something
> interesting because I don't have a 5th order microphone, only for some
> interactive entertainment...
>
> Transaural can be amazing, and it could work for my use case...
>
> Thanks for the tips. I may fail miserably, but it's worth a try.
>
> Marc
>
> Le 21-03-05 à 06 h 44, Dave Hunt a écrit :
> > Hi Marc,
> >
> > Yes, this is very difficult to do properly but a simple bodge is
> surprisingly effective. Undoing the built in binaural encoding from the
> original recording is next to impossible.
> >
> > I have done what is suggested in the ambisonic.net sources in Max. XY
> or polar coordinates place the left and right channels at variable points
> on a circle in a 1st order ambisonic encoder, giving a basic B-format
> output. This image can then be rotated by fairly simple maths to alter the
> coordinates of both channels together, or by rotating the B-format signal.
> The rest is done by an ambisonic decoder.
> >
> > Once in B-format, the WXY components can be manipulated; gain, eq,
> directional dominance. You can also apply a Z coordinate to move the image
> up and down.
> >
> > The result is undeniably diffuse, but usable. Generally binaural
> recordings sound OK as normal stereo, obviously without the proper spatial
> impression.
> >
> > Interesting effects are also achieved by treating stereo as UHJ and
> deriving B-Format from that. I think there is something on that on
> ambisonic.net, as well as super stereo and Dolby stereo.
> >
> > Transaural crosstalk cancellation only works over a very small area, and
> becomes more complex for quad. Many such systems go for some form of
> closely spaced dipole speaker layout, possibly with extra speakers. The
> University of Southampton had something like that, but references might
> take some finding.
> >
> > Ciao,
> >
> > Dave Hunt
> >
> >
> >> On 4 Mar 2021, at 17:00, sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu wrote:
> >>
> >> From: Marc Lavallée 
> >> Subject: [Sursound] binaural to FOA?
> >> Date: 4 March 2021 at 13:55:42 GMT
> >> To: Surround Sound discussion group 
> >>
> >>
> >> I have a "back to the basics" question.
> >>
> >> For a simple project I planned to record in FOA or HOA, but the final
> render would be in simple quad (horizontal). So I don't need a lot of
> resolution. I enjoy recording with binaural microphones (the kind that
> looks like cheap earbuds), so I can record continuously without being
> noticed.
> >>
> >> So I wondered; is there a method to "convert" binaural to
> horizontal-only FOA? Apparently there is:
> >>
> >> https://www.ambisonic.net/quaduhj.html
> >>
> >> http://www.ambisonic.net/ambimix.html
> >>
> >> I guess my question is: what would be the software equivalent of a
> pan-rotate device?
> >>
> >> Marc
> > ___
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-- 
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Re: [Sursound] binaural to FOA?

[Marc Lavallée]

I'll give zita-bls1 a try with a quad rig, and compare with ATK Super 
Stereo.


I used zita-bls1 to enhance stereo recordings, an the resultst were 
impressive...


It's often more fun to play with low-tech audio than HOA! :-)

Thanks

Marc

Le 21-03-05 à 05 h 41, Fons Adriaensen a écrit :

On Thu, Mar 04, 2021 at 02:15:12PM +, Augustine Leudar wrote:


http://www.ambisonic.net/ambimix.html

Or 'how to do FOA on a stereo mixer' 38 years ago...
Amusing but pretty irrelevant today.


Some simple facts:

Horizontal FOA requires three _independent_ signals, W, X, Y.
Binaural only provides two. That means that a correct linear
transformation from binaural to FOA can not exist. That's
just maths you can't argue with.

It could be done using 'parametric' methods, which means
you try to mimic how a human brain analyses the information
it gets from the ears, and uses it to reconstruct a scene.
That involves 'sensor fusing', i.e. information from other
sources (e.g. visual), expectations, previous experience
of 'known sounds', and even cultural bias.

Maybe possible with AI in ten years but certainly not today.

A human also can and will rotate his/her head in order to
resolve ambiguous localisation. This can't be done given
only prerecorded binaural signals, so part of the required
info will be missing anyhow.

That said, not all is lost.

Conversion from binaural to stereo is possible using
something similar to



This is a linear process and it could be done using
convolution as well. But then you don't have the interactive
controls and that could be a problem in practice.

Given the stereo signals, you could you use a simple
upmixing process to separate direct and diffuse sound.

Finally, using convential AMB methods, pan the direct
sound to the front and the diffuse part to the back.

That should give you 'plausible' rendering of the original
binaural recording, assuming the person wearing the in-ear
mics didn't move his/her head randomly too much.

Ciao,


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Re: [Sursound] binaural to FOA?

[Marc Lavallée]

That's what I'm looking for: a simple bodge, to be able to use stereo 
and/or binaural recordings that could be available instead of FOA 
recordings; I don't want to miss opportunities to record something 
interesting because I don't have a 5th order microphone, only for some 
interactive entertainment...


Transaural can be amazing, and it could work for my use case...

Thanks for the tips. I may fail miserably, but it's worth a try.

Marc

Le 21-03-05 à 06 h 44, Dave Hunt a écrit :

Hi Marc,

Yes, this is very difficult to do properly but a simple bodge is surprisingly 
effective. Undoing the built in binaural encoding from the original recording 
is next to impossible.

I have done what is suggested in the ambisonic.net sources in Max. XY or polar 
coordinates place the left and right channels at variable points on a circle in 
a 1st order ambisonic encoder, giving a basic B-format output. This image can 
then be rotated by fairly simple maths to alter the coordinates of both 
channels together, or by rotating the B-format signal. The rest is done by an 
ambisonic decoder.

Once in B-format, the WXY components can be manipulated; gain, eq, directional 
dominance. You can also apply a Z coordinate to move the image up and down.

The result is undeniably diffuse, but usable. Generally binaural recordings 
sound OK as normal stereo, obviously without the proper spatial impression.

Interesting effects are also achieved by treating stereo as UHJ and deriving 
B-Format from that. I think there is something on that on ambisonic.net, as 
well as super stereo and Dolby stereo.

Transaural crosstalk cancellation only works over a very small area, and 
becomes more complex for quad. Many such systems go for some form of closely 
spaced dipole speaker layout, possibly with extra speakers. The University of 
Southampton had something like that, but references might take some finding.

Ciao,

Dave Hunt



On 4 Mar 2021, at 17:00, sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu wrote:

From: Marc Lavallée 
Subject: [Sursound] binaural to FOA?
Date: 4 March 2021 at 13:55:42 GMT
To: Surround Sound discussion group 


I have a "back to the basics" question.

For a simple project I planned to record in FOA or HOA, but the final render 
would be in simple quad (horizontal). So I don't need a lot of resolution. I 
enjoy recording with binaural microphones (the kind that looks like cheap 
earbuds), so I can record continuously without being noticed.

So I wondered; is there a method to "convert" binaural to horizontal-only FOA? 
Apparently there is:

https://www.ambisonic.net/quaduhj.html

http://www.ambisonic.net/ambimix.html

I guess my question is: what would be the software equivalent of a pan-rotate 
device?

Marc

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Re: [Sursound] binaural to FOA?

[Dave Hunt]

Hi Marc,

Yes, this is very difficult to do properly but a simple bodge is surprisingly 
effective. Undoing the built in binaural encoding from the original recording 
is next to impossible.

I have done what is suggested in the ambisonic.net sources in Max. XY or polar 
coordinates place the left and right channels at variable points on a circle in 
a 1st order ambisonic encoder, giving a basic B-format output. This image can 
then be rotated by fairly simple maths to alter the coordinates of both 
channels together, or by rotating the B-format signal. The rest is done by an 
ambisonic decoder.

Once in B-format, the WXY components can be manipulated; gain, eq, directional 
dominance. You can also apply a Z coordinate to move the image up and down.

The result is undeniably diffuse, but usable. Generally binaural recordings 
sound OK as normal stereo, obviously without the proper spatial impression.

Interesting effects are also achieved by treating stereo as UHJ and deriving 
B-Format from that. I think there is something on that on ambisonic.net, as 
well as super stereo and Dolby stereo.

Transaural crosstalk cancellation only works over a very small area, and 
becomes more complex for quad. Many such systems go for some form of closely 
spaced dipole speaker layout, possibly with extra speakers. The University of 
Southampton had something like that, but references might take some finding.

Ciao,

Dave Hunt


> On 4 Mar 2021, at 17:00, sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu wrote:
> 
> From: Marc Lavallée 
> Subject: [Sursound] binaural to FOA?
> Date: 4 March 2021 at 13:55:42 GMT
> To: Surround Sound discussion group 
> 
> 
> I have a "back to the basics" question.
> 
> For a simple project I planned to record in FOA or HOA, but the final render 
> would be in simple quad (horizontal). So I don't need a lot of resolution. I 
> enjoy recording with binaural microphones (the kind that looks like cheap 
> earbuds), so I can record continuously without being noticed.
> 
> So I wondered; is there a method to "convert" binaural to horizontal-only 
> FOA? Apparently there is:
> 
> https://www.ambisonic.net/quaduhj.html
> 
> http://www.ambisonic.net/ambimix.html
> 
> I guess my question is: what would be the software equivalent of a pan-rotate 
> device?
> 
> Marc

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Re: [Sursound] binaural to FOA?

[Fons Adriaensen]

On Thu, Mar 04, 2021 at 02:15:12PM +, Augustine Leudar wrote:

> http://www.ambisonic.net/ambimix.html

Or 'how to do FOA on a stereo mixer' 38 years ago...
Amusing but pretty irrelevant today.


Some simple facts:

Horizontal FOA requires three _independent_ signals, W, X, Y.
Binaural only provides two. That means that a correct linear
transformation from binaural to FOA can not exist. That's
just maths you can't argue with.

It could be done using 'parametric' methods, which means
you try to mimic how a human brain analyses the information
it gets from the ears, and uses it to reconstruct a scene.
That involves 'sensor fusing', i.e. information from other
sources (e.g. visual), expectations, previous experience
of 'known sounds', and even cultural bias.

Maybe possible with AI in ten years but certainly not today.

A human also can and will rotate his/her head in order to
resolve ambiguous localisation. This can't be done given
only prerecorded binaural signals, so part of the required
info will be missing anyhow.

That said, not all is lost.

Conversion from binaural to stereo is possible using 
something similar to 



This is a linear process and it could be done using
convolution as well. But then you don't have the interactive
controls and that could be a problem in practice.

Given the stereo signals, you could you use a simple
upmixing process to separate direct and diffuse sound.

Finally, using convential AMB methods, pan the direct
sound to the front and the diffuse part to the back.

That should give you 'plausible' rendering of the original
binaural recording, assuming the person wearing the in-ear
mics didn't move his/her head randomly too much.

Ciao,

-- 
FA

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Re: [Sursound] binaural to FOA?

[Marc Lavallée]

I believe you're right: binaural is just stereo with a twist. So 
hopefully the SuperStereo ATK kernel will work. There's probably other 
methods, and if they are linear I could capture them as IRs and apply 
them to the binaural recordings (in real time). I would also buy beers, 
but I don't go to conferences, I only make noise on Sursound (not even 
on FB, where all the fun apparently is now).


Marc

Le 21-03-04 à 10 h 03, Augustine Leudar a écrit :

and its a great Question Marc ! Let's hope someone has an answer for you
that more hopeful than mine. If you could somehow decipher the ILDs and
ITDs of your recordings and work out which bits of the wave file correspond
to "back left" "back Right" "front left" "front right" and put those out
over the corresponding speakers then that could work - if someone knows how
to do that a  will buy them a beer at the next conference.

On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 at 14:49, Augustine Leudar 
wrote:


should have said "quad will always be better than stereo" for
installations

On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 at 14:48, Augustine Leudar 
wrote:


yeah - I read the binaural to Bformat section. But the problem is with
what they describe there that I don't think it would be any different from
converting a normal stereo signal to b format - in fact it could even be a
little bit worse. Its nothing to do with Kemar heads - just the fact if you
have a piece of software like Dearvr you can pan a sound in a circle and
output it as Binaural or FOA or whatever. The problem you'll have with
panning binaural on to speaker like they described panned left and right
etc is you will get the binaural cues for the left ear hitting both ears
and the binaural cues that are just for the right ear hitting both ears
thus rendering any "binaural" cues in the recording ineffective - even
worse with quad - thats why crosstalk cancellation is built in to
transaural systems - but Ive not hear dthat work very well either.
I think you're best bet would be to convert binaural to normal stereo and
do that for two pairs - quad will always be better than binaural for an
installation or just build up a quad soundscape from scratch .And yes I did
try what you are describing years ago .

On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 at 14:39, Marc Lavallée  wrote:


Humans heads may be different from the mythic KEMAR dummy head, but for
my use case I don't think it matters...

I don't expect this "conversion" to be precise, or as a mean to archive
binaural recordings using ambisonics; my intention is simply to use
binaural recordings for an art installation with small speakers close to
the user; I suspect it would feel better with a quad setup than a stereo
setup, because the user would move (turning its head and/body).

See the "Binaural to B-Format" section of
https://www.ambisonic.net/quaduhj.html, then the Pan-Rotate section of
"http://www.ambisonic.net/ambimix.html;; How to do something similar
with software methods?

I'll try a few things, but maybe someone in the large Sursound community
did something similar?

(All we see now on this mailing list are academic/commercial
announcements, so please excuse my naïve question...)

Marc

Le 21-03-04 à 09 h 21, Augustine Leudar a écrit :

There might be something that uses crosstalk cancellation that might

work

for a normal two speaker (transaural) approach? Although I can't see

how it

would work for quad though - or why youd need to use ambisonics fo it.

I

know Spat has a binaural transaural converter - which can also convert

to

quad - but I dont know if you can use your own recordings - I think

it's

just for stuff panned in the software

On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 at 14:15, Augustine Leudar <

augustineleu...@gmail.com>

wrote:


I'm, not sure there would be Marc - I can see how it easy enough to
convert in software ambisonics to binaural by convolving with HRTFs

and

potentially the other way round too if you used the same software

that was

convolving HRTFS to output Ambisonics (or even plain old quad) but a
recording with your own personal HRTFs on it ? I cant see how  -

unless

theres some super software that has your personal HRTF , can get that

data

from the recording (which sounds very difficult) and convert to
ambisonics/whatever - would love to be wrong though!

On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 at 13:55, Marc Lavallée  wrote:


I have a "back to the basics" question.

For a simple project I planned to record in FOA or HOA, but the final
render would be in simple quad (horizontal). So I don't need a lot of
resolution. I enjoy recording with binaural microphones (the kind

that

looks like cheap earbuds), so I can record continuously without being
noticed.

So I wondered; is there a method to "convert" binaural to
horizontal-only FOA? Apparently there is:

https://www.ambisonic.net/quaduhj.html

http://www.ambisonic.net/ambimix.html

I guess my question is: what would be the software equivalent of a
pan-rotate device?

Marc

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Re: [Sursound] binaural to FOA?

[Marc Lavallée]

Mike, I already know how to use the ATK kernels in custom applications 
(a bit of convolution and the job is done). I never tried the Super 
Stereo kernel, and I did not think about it for my use case. What's 
happening under the hood doesn't matter much (at this point), and I 
trust anything ATK. This is a great suggestion, hopefully it'll work 
just fine, even with binaural recordings.


Thanks! :-)

Marc

Le 21-03-04 à 10 h 03, McCrea Michael a écrit :

Hi Marc,

You may consider trying the “super stereo" technique to encoder your binaural 
recording into FOA. You could quickly audition this in Reaper using the ATK’s SuperStereo 
encoder. It has a very 
satisfying “wrap around” impression once decoded from FOA. As I understand it, there is 
some frequency dispersion across the lateral hemispheres in FOA to achieve this.

Note that this is not the same as “super stereo” effect you may find reference 
to online (relating to listening to UHJ without a decoder). Jo Anderson 
authored the encoding kernels and may have more details on what’s happening 
under the hood.

My best,
Mike

On 4. Mar 2021, at 16.39, Marc Lavallée 
mailto:m...@hacklava.net>> wrote:

Humans heads may be different from the mythic KEMAR dummy head, but for my use 
case I don't think it matters...

I don't expect this "conversion" to be precise, or as a mean to archive 
binaural recordings using ambisonics; my intention is simply to use binaural recordings 
for an art installation with small speakers close to the user; I suspect it would feel 
better with a quad setup than a stereo setup, because the user would move (turning its 
head and/body).

See the "Binaural to B-Format" section of https://www.ambisonic.net/quaduhj.html, then 
the Pan-Rotate section of "http://www.ambisonic.net/ambimix.html;; How to do something 
similar with software methods?

I'll try a few things, but maybe someone in the large Sursound community did 
something similar?

(All we see now on this mailing list are academic/commercial announcements, so 
please excuse my naïve question...)

Marc

Le 21-03-04 à 09 h 21, Augustine Leudar a écrit :
There might be something that uses crosstalk cancellation that might work
for a normal two speaker (transaural) approach? Although I can't see how it
would work for quad though - or why youd need to use ambisonics fo it. I
know Spat has a binaural transaural converter - which can also convert to
quad - but I dont know if you can use your own recordings - I think it's
just for stuff panned in the software

On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 at 14:15, Augustine Leudar 
mailto:augustineleu...@gmail.com>>
wrote:

I'm, not sure there would be Marc - I can see how it easy enough to
convert in software ambisonics to binaural by convolving with HRTFs and
potentially the other way round too if you used the same software that was
convolving HRTFS to output Ambisonics (or even plain old quad) but a
recording with your own personal HRTFs on it ? I cant see how  - unless
theres some super software that has your personal HRTF , can get that data
from the recording (which sounds very difficult) and convert to
ambisonics/whatever - would love to be wrong though!

On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 at 13:55, Marc Lavallée 
mailto:m...@hacklava.net>> wrote:

I have a "back to the basics" question.

For a simple project I planned to record in FOA or HOA, but the final
render would be in simple quad (horizontal). So I don't need a lot of
resolution. I enjoy recording with binaural microphones (the kind that
looks like cheap earbuds), so I can record continuously without being
noticed.

So I wondered; is there a method to "convert" binaural to
horizontal-only FOA? Apparently there is:

https://www.ambisonic.net/quaduhj.html

http://www.ambisonic.net/ambimix.html

I guess my question is: what would be the software equivalent of a
pan-rotate device?

Marc

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Re: [Sursound] binaural to FOA?

[McCrea Michael]

Hi Marc,

You may consider trying the “super stereo" technique to encoder your binaural 
recording into FOA. You could quickly audition this in Reaper using the ATK’s 
SuperStereo encoder. It 
has a very satisfying “wrap around” impression once decoded from FOA. As I 
understand it, there is some frequency dispersion across the lateral 
hemispheres in FOA to achieve this.

Note that this is not the same as “super stereo” effect you may find reference 
to online (relating to listening to UHJ without a decoder). Jo Anderson 
authored the encoding kernels and may have more details on what’s happening 
under the hood.

My best,
Mike

On 4. Mar 2021, at 16.39, Marc Lavallée 
mailto:m...@hacklava.net>> wrote:

Humans heads may be different from the mythic KEMAR dummy head, but for my use 
case I don't think it matters...

I don't expect this "conversion" to be precise, or as a mean to archive 
binaural recordings using ambisonics; my intention is simply to use binaural 
recordings for an art installation with small speakers close to the user; I 
suspect it would feel better with a quad setup than a stereo setup, because the 
user would move (turning its head and/body).

See the "Binaural to B-Format" section of 
https://www.ambisonic.net/quaduhj.html, then the Pan-Rotate section of 
"http://www.ambisonic.net/ambimix.html;; How to do something similar with 
software methods?

I'll try a few things, but maybe someone in the large Sursound community did 
something similar?

(All we see now on this mailing list are academic/commercial announcements, so 
please excuse my naïve question...)

Marc

Le 21-03-04 à 09 h 21, Augustine Leudar a écrit :
There might be something that uses crosstalk cancellation that might work
for a normal two speaker (transaural) approach? Although I can't see how it
would work for quad though - or why youd need to use ambisonics fo it. I
know Spat has a binaural transaural converter - which can also convert to
quad - but I dont know if you can use your own recordings - I think it's
just for stuff panned in the software

On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 at 14:15, Augustine Leudar 
mailto:augustineleu...@gmail.com>>
wrote:

I'm, not sure there would be Marc - I can see how it easy enough to
convert in software ambisonics to binaural by convolving with HRTFs and
potentially the other way round too if you used the same software that was
convolving HRTFS to output Ambisonics (or even plain old quad) but a
recording with your own personal HRTFs on it ? I cant see how  - unless
theres some super software that has your personal HRTF , can get that data
from the recording (which sounds very difficult) and convert to
ambisonics/whatever - would love to be wrong though!

On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 at 13:55, Marc Lavallée 
mailto:m...@hacklava.net>> wrote:

I have a "back to the basics" question.

For a simple project I planned to record in FOA or HOA, but the final
render would be in simple quad (horizontal). So I don't need a lot of
resolution. I enjoy recording with binaural microphones (the kind that
looks like cheap earbuds), so I can record continuously without being
noticed.

So I wondered; is there a method to "convert" binaural to
horizontal-only FOA? Apparently there is:

https://www.ambisonic.net/quaduhj.html

http://www.ambisonic.net/ambimix.html

I guess my question is: what would be the software equivalent of a
pan-rotate device?

Marc

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Re: [Sursound] binaural to FOA?

[Augustine Leudar]

should have said "quad will always be better than stereo" for installations

On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 at 14:48, Augustine Leudar 
wrote:

> yeah - I read the binaural to Bformat section. But the problem is with
> what they describe there that I don't think it would be any different from
> converting a normal stereo signal to b format - in fact it could even be a
> little bit worse. Its nothing to do with Kemar heads - just the fact if you
> have a piece of software like Dearvr you can pan a sound in a circle and
> output it as Binaural or FOA or whatever. The problem you'll have with
> panning binaural on to speaker like they described panned left and right
> etc is you will get the binaural cues for the left ear hitting both ears
> and the binaural cues that are just for the right ear hitting both ears
> thus rendering any "binaural" cues in the recording ineffective - even
> worse with quad - thats why crosstalk cancellation is built in to
> transaural systems - but Ive not hear dthat work very well either.
> I think you're best bet would be to convert binaural to normal stereo and
> do that for two pairs - quad will always be better than binaural for an
> installation or just build up a quad soundscape from scratch .And yes I did
> try what you are describing years ago .
>
> On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 at 14:39, Marc Lavallée  wrote:
>
>> Humans heads may be different from the mythic KEMAR dummy head, but for
>> my use case I don't think it matters...
>>
>> I don't expect this "conversion" to be precise, or as a mean to archive
>> binaural recordings using ambisonics; my intention is simply to use
>> binaural recordings for an art installation with small speakers close to
>> the user; I suspect it would feel better with a quad setup than a stereo
>> setup, because the user would move (turning its head and/body).
>>
>> See the "Binaural to B-Format" section of
>> https://www.ambisonic.net/quaduhj.html, then the Pan-Rotate section of
>> "http://www.ambisonic.net/ambimix.html;; How to do something similar
>> with software methods?
>>
>> I'll try a few things, but maybe someone in the large Sursound community
>> did something similar?
>>
>> (All we see now on this mailing list are academic/commercial
>> announcements, so please excuse my naïve question...)
>>
>> Marc
>>
>> Le 21-03-04 à 09 h 21, Augustine Leudar a écrit :
>> > There might be something that uses crosstalk cancellation that might
>> work
>> > for a normal two speaker (transaural) approach? Although I can't see
>> how it
>> > would work for quad though - or why youd need to use ambisonics fo it. I
>> > know Spat has a binaural transaural converter - which can also convert
>> to
>> > quad - but I dont know if you can use your own recordings - I think it's
>> > just for stuff panned in the software
>> >
>> > On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 at 14:15, Augustine Leudar <
>> augustineleu...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> I'm, not sure there would be Marc - I can see how it easy enough to
>> >> convert in software ambisonics to binaural by convolving with HRTFs and
>> >> potentially the other way round too if you used the same software that
>> was
>> >> convolving HRTFS to output Ambisonics (or even plain old quad) but a
>> >> recording with your own personal HRTFs on it ? I cant see how  - unless
>> >> theres some super software that has your personal HRTF , can get that
>> data
>> >> from the recording (which sounds very difficult) and convert to
>> >> ambisonics/whatever - would love to be wrong though!
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 at 13:55, Marc Lavallée  wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> I have a "back to the basics" question.
>> >>>
>> >>> For a simple project I planned to record in FOA or HOA, but the final
>> >>> render would be in simple quad (horizontal). So I don't need a lot of
>> >>> resolution. I enjoy recording with binaural microphones (the kind that
>> >>> looks like cheap earbuds), so I can record continuously without being
>> >>> noticed.
>> >>>
>> >>> So I wondered; is there a method to "convert" binaural to
>> >>> horizontal-only FOA? Apparently there is:
>> >>>
>> >>> https://www.ambisonic.net/quaduhj.html
>> >>>
>> >>> http://www.ambisonic.net/ambimix.html
>> >>>
>> >>> I guess my question is: what would be the software equivalent of a
>> >>> pan-rotate device?
>> >>>
>> >>> Marc
>> >>>
>> >>> ___
>> >>> Sursound mailing list
>> >>> Sursound@music.vt.edu
>> >>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
>> here,
>> >>> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Artist website: www.augustineleudar.com
>> >> Business website: www.magikdoor.net
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> ___
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>> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>>
>
>
> --
> Artist website: www.augustineleudar.com
> Business website: 

Re: [Sursound] binaural to FOA?

[Augustine Leudar]

yeah - I read the binaural to Bformat section. But the problem is with what
they describe there that I don't think it would be any different from
converting a normal stereo signal to b format - in fact it could even be a
little bit worse. Its nothing to do with Kemar heads - just the fact if you
have a piece of software like Dearvr you can pan a sound in a circle and
output it as Binaural or FOA or whatever. The problem you'll have with
panning binaural on to speaker like they described panned left and right
etc is you will get the binaural cues for the left ear hitting both ears
and the binaural cues that are just for the right ear hitting both ears
thus rendering any "binaural" cues in the recording ineffective - even
worse with quad - thats why crosstalk cancellation is built in to
transaural systems - but Ive not hear dthat work very well either.
I think you're best bet would be to convert binaural to normal stereo and
do that for two pairs - quad will always be better than binaural for an
installation or just build up a quad soundscape from scratch .And yes I did
try what you are describing years ago .

On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 at 14:39, Marc Lavallée  wrote:

> Humans heads may be different from the mythic KEMAR dummy head, but for
> my use case I don't think it matters...
>
> I don't expect this "conversion" to be precise, or as a mean to archive
> binaural recordings using ambisonics; my intention is simply to use
> binaural recordings for an art installation with small speakers close to
> the user; I suspect it would feel better with a quad setup than a stereo
> setup, because the user would move (turning its head and/body).
>
> See the "Binaural to B-Format" section of
> https://www.ambisonic.net/quaduhj.html, then the Pan-Rotate section of
> "http://www.ambisonic.net/ambimix.html;; How to do something similar
> with software methods?
>
> I'll try a few things, but maybe someone in the large Sursound community
> did something similar?
>
> (All we see now on this mailing list are academic/commercial
> announcements, so please excuse my naïve question...)
>
> Marc
>
> Le 21-03-04 à 09 h 21, Augustine Leudar a écrit :
> > There might be something that uses crosstalk cancellation that might work
> > for a normal two speaker (transaural) approach? Although I can't see how
> it
> > would work for quad though - or why youd need to use ambisonics fo it. I
> > know Spat has a binaural transaural converter - which can also convert to
> > quad - but I dont know if you can use your own recordings - I think it's
> > just for stuff panned in the software
> >
> > On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 at 14:15, Augustine Leudar  >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I'm, not sure there would be Marc - I can see how it easy enough to
> >> convert in software ambisonics to binaural by convolving with HRTFs and
> >> potentially the other way round too if you used the same software that
> was
> >> convolving HRTFS to output Ambisonics (or even plain old quad) but a
> >> recording with your own personal HRTFs on it ? I cant see how  - unless
> >> theres some super software that has your personal HRTF , can get that
> data
> >> from the recording (which sounds very difficult) and convert to
> >> ambisonics/whatever - would love to be wrong though!
> >>
> >> On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 at 13:55, Marc Lavallée  wrote:
> >>
> >>> I have a "back to the basics" question.
> >>>
> >>> For a simple project I planned to record in FOA or HOA, but the final
> >>> render would be in simple quad (horizontal). So I don't need a lot of
> >>> resolution. I enjoy recording with binaural microphones (the kind that
> >>> looks like cheap earbuds), so I can record continuously without being
> >>> noticed.
> >>>
> >>> So I wondered; is there a method to "convert" binaural to
> >>> horizontal-only FOA? Apparently there is:
> >>>
> >>> https://www.ambisonic.net/quaduhj.html
> >>>
> >>> http://www.ambisonic.net/ambimix.html
> >>>
> >>> I guess my question is: what would be the software equivalent of a
> >>> pan-rotate device?
> >>>
> >>> Marc
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Sursound mailing list
> >>> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> >>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> here,
> >>> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Artist website: www.augustineleudar.com
> >> Business website: www.magikdoor.net
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>


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Re: [Sursound] binaural to FOA?

[Marc Lavallée]

Humans heads may be different from the mythic KEMAR dummy head, but for 
my use case I don't think it matters...


I don't expect this "conversion" to be precise, or as a mean to archive 
binaural recordings using ambisonics; my intention is simply to use 
binaural recordings for an art installation with small speakers close to 
the user; I suspect it would feel better with a quad setup than a stereo 
setup, because the user would move (turning its head and/body).


See the "Binaural to B-Format" section of 
https://www.ambisonic.net/quaduhj.html, then the Pan-Rotate section of 
"http://www.ambisonic.net/ambimix.html;; How to do something similar 
with software methods?


I'll try a few things, but maybe someone in the large Sursound community 
did something similar?


(All we see now on this mailing list are academic/commercial 
announcements, so please excuse my naïve question...)


Marc

Le 21-03-04 à 09 h 21, Augustine Leudar a écrit :

There might be something that uses crosstalk cancellation that might work
for a normal two speaker (transaural) approach? Although I can't see how it
would work for quad though - or why youd need to use ambisonics fo it. I
know Spat has a binaural transaural converter - which can also convert to
quad - but I dont know if you can use your own recordings - I think it's
just for stuff panned in the software

On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 at 14:15, Augustine Leudar 
wrote:


I'm, not sure there would be Marc - I can see how it easy enough to
convert in software ambisonics to binaural by convolving with HRTFs and
potentially the other way round too if you used the same software that was
convolving HRTFS to output Ambisonics (or even plain old quad) but a
recording with your own personal HRTFs on it ? I cant see how  - unless
theres some super software that has your personal HRTF , can get that data
from the recording (which sounds very difficult) and convert to
ambisonics/whatever - would love to be wrong though!

On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 at 13:55, Marc Lavallée  wrote:


I have a "back to the basics" question.

For a simple project I planned to record in FOA or HOA, but the final
render would be in simple quad (horizontal). So I don't need a lot of
resolution. I enjoy recording with binaural microphones (the kind that
looks like cheap earbuds), so I can record continuously without being
noticed.

So I wondered; is there a method to "convert" binaural to
horizontal-only FOA? Apparently there is:

https://www.ambisonic.net/quaduhj.html

http://www.ambisonic.net/ambimix.html

I guess my question is: what would be the software equivalent of a
pan-rotate device?

Marc

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Re: [Sursound] binaural to FOA?

[Augustine Leudar]

There might be something that uses crosstalk cancellation that might work
for a normal two speaker (transaural) approach? Although I can't see how it
would work for quad though - or why youd need to use ambisonics fo it. I
know Spat has a binaural transaural converter - which can also convert to
quad - but I dont know if you can use your own recordings - I think it's
just for stuff panned in the software

On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 at 14:15, Augustine Leudar 
wrote:

> I'm, not sure there would be Marc - I can see how it easy enough to
> convert in software ambisonics to binaural by convolving with HRTFs and
> potentially the other way round too if you used the same software that was
> convolving HRTFS to output Ambisonics (or even plain old quad) but a
> recording with your own personal HRTFs on it ? I cant see how  - unless
> theres some super software that has your personal HRTF , can get that data
> from the recording (which sounds very difficult) and convert to
> ambisonics/whatever - would love to be wrong though!
>
> On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 at 13:55, Marc Lavallée  wrote:
>
>> I have a "back to the basics" question.
>>
>> For a simple project I planned to record in FOA or HOA, but the final
>> render would be in simple quad (horizontal). So I don't need a lot of
>> resolution. I enjoy recording with binaural microphones (the kind that
>> looks like cheap earbuds), so I can record continuously without being
>> noticed.
>>
>> So I wondered; is there a method to "convert" binaural to
>> horizontal-only FOA? Apparently there is:
>>
>> https://www.ambisonic.net/quaduhj.html
>>
>> http://www.ambisonic.net/ambimix.html
>>
>> I guess my question is: what would be the software equivalent of a
>> pan-rotate device?
>>
>> Marc
>>
>> ___
>> Sursound mailing list
>> Sursound@music.vt.edu
>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
>> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>>
>
>
> --
> Artist website: www.augustineleudar.com
> Business website: www.magikdoor.net
>
>
>

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Re: [Sursound] binaural to FOA?

[Augustine Leudar]

I'm, not sure there would be Marc - I can see how it easy enough to convert
in software ambisonics to binaural by convolving with HRTFs and potentially
the other way round too if you used the same software that was convolving
HRTFS to output Ambisonics (or even plain old quad) but a recording with
your own personal HRTFs on it ? I cant see how  - unless theres some super
software that has your personal HRTF , can get that data from the recording
(which sounds very difficult) and convert to ambisonics/whatever - would
love to be wrong though!

On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 at 13:55, Marc Lavallée  wrote:

> I have a "back to the basics" question.
>
> For a simple project I planned to record in FOA or HOA, but the final
> render would be in simple quad (horizontal). So I don't need a lot of
> resolution. I enjoy recording with binaural microphones (the kind that
> looks like cheap earbuds), so I can record continuously without being
> noticed.
>
> So I wondered; is there a method to "convert" binaural to
> horizontal-only FOA? Apparently there is:
>
> https://www.ambisonic.net/quaduhj.html
>
> http://www.ambisonic.net/ambimix.html
>
> I guess my question is: what would be the software equivalent of a
> pan-rotate device?
>
> Marc
>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>


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[Sursound] binaural to FOA?

[Marc Lavallée]

I have a "back to the basics" question.

For a simple project I planned to record in FOA or HOA, but the final 
render would be in simple quad (horizontal). So I don't need a lot of 
resolution. I enjoy recording with binaural microphones (the kind that 
looks like cheap earbuds), so I can record continuously without being 
noticed.


So I wondered; is there a method to "convert" binaural to 
horizontal-only FOA? Apparently there is:


https://www.ambisonic.net/quaduhj.html

http://www.ambisonic.net/ambimix.html

I guess my question is: what would be the software equivalent of a 
pan-rotate device?


Marc

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