Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers

[Michael Chapman]

> this is for the z506 speakers
>
> or, Michael, what was your set up when you used the X-140's?
>

Sorry the èages are ancient. But looking at them now I see a 'next page'
link would have been useful ...

If you go up a level :   'index page', then you can find all the pages.
The 'hardware' and software' pages give most of the info.

Michael


PS
The big hurdle back then was a multi-channel (>=8) soundcard.

'Interesting' unplanned costs included:
-installing an electricity socket (220V) in each of the room's four
corners (Did it myself, but the cost surprised me!)
-audio cabling  (as angstfully described on the pages, back then)

Good luck


>
> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 4:35 PM, Matthew Palmer
> wrote:
>
>> What is needed between the computer & the speakers like how do I get the
>> computer to acknowledge each speaker from say this set (
>> http://static.clickbd.com/global/classified/item_img/512646_2_original.jpg/
>> 3.5
>> mm and six channel direct audio cables (RCA cable not included)) as an
>> individual channel?
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 6:17 AM, Dave Malham
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Actually, a square or rectangular  decoder's outputs are such that if
>>> all
>>> four outputs are mixed together in equal amounts, the directional
>>> components (X and Y) will cancel out automatically leaving just the W
>>> -
>>> which is generally what would be sent to the sub...
>>>
>>>  Dave
>>>
>>>
>>> On 21 October 2013 01:11, Marc Lavall�e  wrote:
>>>
>>> > Matthew Palmer  a �crit :
>>> > > I'm wondering if it (4 sets of Logitechs) can give me 3d
>>> > > gratification for a little over $200. I know I'm definitely
>>> > > sacrificing quality but it will take me ages to save up for a
>>> proper
>>> > > set-up.
>>> > > I don't understand what kind of amplifier would be needed though.
>>> >
>>> > Yes! 4 small speakers with one sub are enough as a starting point:
>>> > I suggest reading "Localization in Horizontal-Only Ambisonic Systems"
>>> :
>>> > http://www.ai.sri.com/ajh/ambisonics/BLaH1.pdf
>>> >
>>> > Use a square or rectangular configuration, and drive the sub with the
>>> W
>>> > ambisonic channel; you can use a multimedia 5.1 kit (with integrated
>>> > amplifiers), but the sub should be driven separately, not by a mix of
>>> > the 4 decoded speaker channels (that's my comprehension).
>>> > For un-amplified speakers, you can use cheap D-class amps.
>>> >
>>> > > I don't fully understand what cross-over frequency is (it sounds
>>> > > obvious though) but maybe by reducing the center channels from the
>>> > > set-up , I'd reduce the amount that is happening.
>>> >
>>> > I would not use the centre channel; there are experimental 5.1
>>> decoders
>>> > but I never tried. The cross-over frequency is between the sub-woofer
>>> > and the satellites. Ambisonics works well at low frequencies in small
>>> > rooms, at least down to the Schroeder frequency (usually around
>>> 150Hz,
>>> > depending on your room size and acoustic treatment). That's why 300Hz
>>> > is a bit high, but it's not catastrophic.
>>> >
>>> > Ambisonics with height is possible with a "3D7.1" configuration
>>> (using
>>> > a 7.1 speaker kit). I yet have to try it.
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Marc
>>> >
>>> > > On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 7:12 PM, Charlie Richmond
>>> > > wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > > On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Marc Lavall�e
>>> 
>>> > > > wrote:
>>> > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > What matters is rigidity; if a plastic enclosure is rigid
>>> > > > > enough (for its size), then it would sound the same than a hard
>>> > > > > wood enclosure.  In the specific case of the Z506 model from
>>> > > > > Logitech, wooden enclosures for the satellites would make no
>>> > > > > difference; the drivers, the amps, and the enclosures are too
>>> > > > > small to shake. Only the sub-woofer enclosure is made of MDF,
>>> for
>>> > > > > a reason.
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > So, why not using the Z506 5.1 kit from Logitech? "Multimedia"
>>> > > > > speakers are primarily designed as computer accessories; some
>>> are
>>> > > > > probably well made, excluding the one in the MoMA's permanent
>>> > > > > collection (unless aesthetic is the most important criteria). I
>>> > > > > wouldn't trust its sound quality; it's a bit small unless the
>>> > > > > listening distance is less than 2 meters, the centre speaker
>>> does
>>> > > > > not match the four other satellites, the centre speaker have 2
>>> > > > > mids and the satellites have one mid and one tweeter, and the
>>> > > > > cross-over frequency for the sub-woofer is probably near 300Hz,
>>> > > > > which is a bit too high. For Ambisonics, I believe that better
>>> > > > > quality full-range or coaxial speakers, all matched, should be
>>> > > > > preferred.
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > I would only such use small multimedia speakers for a very
>>> compact
>>> > > > > periphonic installation, along with 4 to 8 small sub-woofers
>>> for a
>>> > > > > supplemental horizontal or periphonic low frequency decoder.
>>> > > > 

Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers

[Marc Lavallée]

Dave Malham  a écrit :
> Actually, a square or rectangular decoder's outputs are such that if
> all four outputs are mixed together in equal amounts, the directional
> components (X and Y) will cancel out automatically leaving just the
> W  - which is generally what would be sent to the sub...
> 
>  Dave

True! And the math is easy (shame on me). But I'd rather use the
original W signal then a mix of all signals, just because the (analog)
mix could be imperfect. Also, there's already a dedicated output for
the sub-woofer (the .1 channel) on 5.1/7.1 sound cards.

Matthew Palmer  a écrit :
> What is needed between the computer & the speakers like how do I get
> the computer to acknowledge each speaker from say this set (
> http://static.clickbd.com/global/classified/item_img/512646_2_original.jpg/
> 3.5 mm and six channel direct audio cables (RCA cable not included))
> as an individual channel?

Basically, you would connect the 5.1 kit normally, using the 3.5mm
cables between the PC 5.1/7.1 sound card and the sub-woofer, according
to their colour codes: green (front), black (rear) and orange
(sub/center).

But then, you would need an apropriate Ambisonics decoder...

--
Marc

 
> 
> On 21 October 2013 01:11, Marc Lavallée  wrote:
> 
> > Matthew Palmer  a écrit :
> > > I'm wondering if it (4 sets of Logitechs) can give me 3d
> > > gratification for a little over $200. I know I'm definitely
> > > sacrificing quality but it will take me ages to save up for a
> > > proper set-up.
> > > I don't understand what kind of amplifier would be needed though.
> >
> > Yes! 4 small speakers with one sub are enough as a starting point:
> > I suggest reading "Localization in Horizontal-Only Ambisonic
> > Systems" : http://www.ai.sri.com/ajh/ambisonics/BLaH1.pdf
> >
> > Use a square or rectangular configuration, and drive the sub with
> > the W ambisonic channel; you can use a multimedia 5.1 kit (with
> > integrated amplifiers), but the sub should be driven separately,
> > not by a mix of the 4 decoded speaker channels (that's my
> > comprehension). For un-amplified speakers, you can use cheap
> > D-class amps.
> >
> > > I don't fully understand what cross-over frequency is (it sounds
> > > obvious though) but maybe by reducing the center channels from the
> > > set-up , I'd reduce the amount that is happening.
> >
> > I would not use the centre channel; there are experimental 5.1
> > decoders but I never tried. The cross-over frequency is between the
> > sub-woofer and the satellites. Ambisonics works well at low
> > frequencies in small rooms, at least down to the Schroeder
> > frequency (usually around 150Hz, depending on your room size and
> > acoustic treatment). That's why 300Hz is a bit high, but it's not
> > catastrophic.
> >
> > Ambisonics with height is possible with a "3D7.1" configuration
> > (using a 7.1 speaker kit). I yet have to try it.
> >
> > --
> > Marc
> >
> > > On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 7:12 PM, Charlie Richmond
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Marc Lavallée
> > > >  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > What matters is rigidity; if a plastic enclosure is rigid
> > > > > enough (for its size), then it would sound the same than a
> > > > > hard wood enclosure.  In the specific case of the Z506 model
> > > > > from Logitech, wooden enclosures for the satellites would
> > > > > make no difference; the drivers, the amps, and the enclosures
> > > > > are too small to shake. Only the sub-woofer enclosure is made
> > > > > of MDF, for a reason.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, why not using the Z506 5.1 kit from Logitech? "Multimedia"
> > > > > speakers are primarily designed as computer accessories; some
> > > > > are probably well made, excluding the one in the MoMA's
> > > > > permanent collection (unless aesthetic is the most important
> > > > > criteria). I wouldn't trust its sound quality; it's a bit
> > > > > small unless the listening distance is less than 2 meters,
> > > > > the centre speaker does not match the four other satellites,
> > > > > the centre speaker have 2 mids and the satellites have one
> > > > > mid and one tweeter, and the cross-over frequency for the
> > > > > sub-woofer is probably near 300Hz, which is a bit too high.
> > > > > For Ambisonics, I believe that better quality full-range or
> > > > > coaxial speakers, all matched, should be preferred.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would only such use small multimedia speakers for a very
> > > > > compact periphonic installation, along with 4 to 8 small
> > > > > sub-woofers for a supplemental horizontal or periphonic low
> > > > > frequency decoder.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Agreed.  That said, the Logitech self powered systems are
> > > > generally extremely well made and sound very good, imho.
> > > >
> > > > C-)
> > > > -- next part --
> > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > > URL: <
> > > >
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131020/73b9a2d1/attachment.html
> 

Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers

[Matthew Palmer]

this is for the z506 speakers

or, Michael, what was your set up when you used the X-140's?


On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 4:35 PM, Matthew Palmer wrote:

> What is needed between the computer & the speakers like how do I get the
> computer to acknowledge each speaker from say this set (
> http://static.clickbd.com/global/classified/item_img/512646_2_original.jpg/ 
> 3.5
> mm and six channel direct audio cables (RCA cable not included)) as an
> individual channel?
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 6:17 AM, Dave Malham wrote:
>
>> Actually, a square or rectangular  decoder's outputs are such that if all
>> four outputs are mixed together in equal amounts, the directional
>> components (X and Y) will cancel out automatically leaving just the W  -
>> which is generally what would be sent to the sub...
>>
>>  Dave
>>
>>
>> On 21 October 2013 01:11, Marc Lavallée  wrote:
>>
>> > Matthew Palmer  a écrit :
>> > > I'm wondering if it (4 sets of Logitechs) can give me 3d
>> > > gratification for a little over $200. I know I'm definitely
>> > > sacrificing quality but it will take me ages to save up for a proper
>> > > set-up.
>> > > I don't understand what kind of amplifier would be needed though.
>> >
>> > Yes! 4 small speakers with one sub are enough as a starting point:
>> > I suggest reading "Localization in Horizontal-Only Ambisonic Systems" :
>> > http://www.ai.sri.com/ajh/ambisonics/BLaH1.pdf
>> >
>> > Use a square or rectangular configuration, and drive the sub with the W
>> > ambisonic channel; you can use a multimedia 5.1 kit (with integrated
>> > amplifiers), but the sub should be driven separately, not by a mix of
>> > the 4 decoded speaker channels (that's my comprehension).
>> > For un-amplified speakers, you can use cheap D-class amps.
>> >
>> > > I don't fully understand what cross-over frequency is (it sounds
>> > > obvious though) but maybe by reducing the center channels from the
>> > > set-up , I'd reduce the amount that is happening.
>> >
>> > I would not use the centre channel; there are experimental 5.1 decoders
>> > but I never tried. The cross-over frequency is between the sub-woofer
>> > and the satellites. Ambisonics works well at low frequencies in small
>> > rooms, at least down to the Schroeder frequency (usually around 150Hz,
>> > depending on your room size and acoustic treatment). That's why 300Hz
>> > is a bit high, but it's not catastrophic.
>> >
>> > Ambisonics with height is possible with a "3D7.1" configuration (using
>> > a 7.1 speaker kit). I yet have to try it.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Marc
>> >
>> > > On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 7:12 PM, Charlie Richmond
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Marc Lavallée 
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > What matters is rigidity; if a plastic enclosure is rigid
>> > > > > enough (for its size), then it would sound the same than a hard
>> > > > > wood enclosure.  In the specific case of the Z506 model from
>> > > > > Logitech, wooden enclosures for the satellites would make no
>> > > > > difference; the drivers, the amps, and the enclosures are too
>> > > > > small to shake. Only the sub-woofer enclosure is made of MDF, for
>> > > > > a reason.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > So, why not using the Z506 5.1 kit from Logitech? "Multimedia"
>> > > > > speakers are primarily designed as computer accessories; some are
>> > > > > probably well made, excluding the one in the MoMA's permanent
>> > > > > collection (unless aesthetic is the most important criteria). I
>> > > > > wouldn't trust its sound quality; it's a bit small unless the
>> > > > > listening distance is less than 2 meters, the centre speaker does
>> > > > > not match the four other satellites, the centre speaker have 2
>> > > > > mids and the satellites have one mid and one tweeter, and the
>> > > > > cross-over frequency for the sub-woofer is probably near 300Hz,
>> > > > > which is a bit too high. For Ambisonics, I believe that better
>> > > > > quality full-range or coaxial speakers, all matched, should be
>> > > > > preferred.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I would only such use small multimedia speakers for a very compact
>> > > > > periphonic installation, along with 4 to 8 small sub-woofers for a
>> > > > > supplemental horizontal or periphonic low frequency decoder.
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Agreed.  That said, the Logitech self powered systems are generally
>> > > > extremely well made and sound very good, imho.
>> > > >
>> > > > C-)
>> > > > -- next part --
>> > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> > > > URL: <
>> > > >
>> >
>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131020/73b9a2d1/attachment.html
>> > > > >
>> > > > ___
>> > > > Sursound mailing list
>> > > > Sursound@music.vt.edu
>> > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
>> > > >
>> > > -- next part --
>> > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> > > URL:
>> > > <
>> >
>> h

Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers

[Matthew Palmer]

What is needed between the computer & the speakers like how do I get the
computer to acknowledge each speaker from say this set (
http://static.clickbd.com/global/classified/item_img/512646_2_original.jpg/ 3.5
mm and six channel direct audio cables (RCA cable not included)) as an
individual channel?


On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 6:17 AM, Dave Malham  wrote:

> Actually, a square or rectangular  decoder's outputs are such that if all
> four outputs are mixed together in equal amounts, the directional
> components (X and Y) will cancel out automatically leaving just the W  -
> which is generally what would be sent to the sub...
>
>  Dave
>
>
> On 21 October 2013 01:11, Marc Lavallée  wrote:
>
> > Matthew Palmer  a écrit :
> > > I'm wondering if it (4 sets of Logitechs) can give me 3d
> > > gratification for a little over $200. I know I'm definitely
> > > sacrificing quality but it will take me ages to save up for a proper
> > > set-up.
> > > I don't understand what kind of amplifier would be needed though.
> >
> > Yes! 4 small speakers with one sub are enough as a starting point:
> > I suggest reading "Localization in Horizontal-Only Ambisonic Systems" :
> > http://www.ai.sri.com/ajh/ambisonics/BLaH1.pdf
> >
> > Use a square or rectangular configuration, and drive the sub with the W
> > ambisonic channel; you can use a multimedia 5.1 kit (with integrated
> > amplifiers), but the sub should be driven separately, not by a mix of
> > the 4 decoded speaker channels (that's my comprehension).
> > For un-amplified speakers, you can use cheap D-class amps.
> >
> > > I don't fully understand what cross-over frequency is (it sounds
> > > obvious though) but maybe by reducing the center channels from the
> > > set-up , I'd reduce the amount that is happening.
> >
> > I would not use the centre channel; there are experimental 5.1 decoders
> > but I never tried. The cross-over frequency is between the sub-woofer
> > and the satellites. Ambisonics works well at low frequencies in small
> > rooms, at least down to the Schroeder frequency (usually around 150Hz,
> > depending on your room size and acoustic treatment). That's why 300Hz
> > is a bit high, but it's not catastrophic.
> >
> > Ambisonics with height is possible with a "3D7.1" configuration (using
> > a 7.1 speaker kit). I yet have to try it.
> >
> > --
> > Marc
> >
> > > On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 7:12 PM, Charlie Richmond
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Marc Lavallée 
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > What matters is rigidity; if a plastic enclosure is rigid
> > > > > enough (for its size), then it would sound the same than a hard
> > > > > wood enclosure.  In the specific case of the Z506 model from
> > > > > Logitech, wooden enclosures for the satellites would make no
> > > > > difference; the drivers, the amps, and the enclosures are too
> > > > > small to shake. Only the sub-woofer enclosure is made of MDF, for
> > > > > a reason.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, why not using the Z506 5.1 kit from Logitech? "Multimedia"
> > > > > speakers are primarily designed as computer accessories; some are
> > > > > probably well made, excluding the one in the MoMA's permanent
> > > > > collection (unless aesthetic is the most important criteria). I
> > > > > wouldn't trust its sound quality; it's a bit small unless the
> > > > > listening distance is less than 2 meters, the centre speaker does
> > > > > not match the four other satellites, the centre speaker have 2
> > > > > mids and the satellites have one mid and one tweeter, and the
> > > > > cross-over frequency for the sub-woofer is probably near 300Hz,
> > > > > which is a bit too high. For Ambisonics, I believe that better
> > > > > quality full-range or coaxial speakers, all matched, should be
> > > > > preferred.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would only such use small multimedia speakers for a very compact
> > > > > periphonic installation, along with 4 to 8 small sub-woofers for a
> > > > > supplemental horizontal or periphonic low frequency decoder.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Agreed.  That said, the Logitech self powered systems are generally
> > > > extremely well made and sound very good, imho.
> > > >
> > > > C-)
> > > > -- next part --
> > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > > URL: <
> > > >
> >
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131020/73b9a2d1/attachment.html
> > > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > Sursound mailing list
> > > > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
> > > >
> > > -- next part --
> > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > URL:
> > > <
> >
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131020/2bfcc5f5/attachment.html
> > >
> > > ___ Sursound mailing list
> > > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
> 

Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers

[Dave Malham]

Actually, a square or rectangular  decoder's outputs are such that if all
four outputs are mixed together in equal amounts, the directional
components (X and Y) will cancel out automatically leaving just the W  -
which is generally what would be sent to the sub...

 Dave


On 21 October 2013 01:11, Marc Lavallée  wrote:

> Matthew Palmer  a écrit :
> > I'm wondering if it (4 sets of Logitechs) can give me 3d
> > gratification for a little over $200. I know I'm definitely
> > sacrificing quality but it will take me ages to save up for a proper
> > set-up.
> > I don't understand what kind of amplifier would be needed though.
>
> Yes! 4 small speakers with one sub are enough as a starting point:
> I suggest reading "Localization in Horizontal-Only Ambisonic Systems" :
> http://www.ai.sri.com/ajh/ambisonics/BLaH1.pdf
>
> Use a square or rectangular configuration, and drive the sub with the W
> ambisonic channel; you can use a multimedia 5.1 kit (with integrated
> amplifiers), but the sub should be driven separately, not by a mix of
> the 4 decoded speaker channels (that's my comprehension).
> For un-amplified speakers, you can use cheap D-class amps.
>
> > I don't fully understand what cross-over frequency is (it sounds
> > obvious though) but maybe by reducing the center channels from the
> > set-up , I'd reduce the amount that is happening.
>
> I would not use the centre channel; there are experimental 5.1 decoders
> but I never tried. The cross-over frequency is between the sub-woofer
> and the satellites. Ambisonics works well at low frequencies in small
> rooms, at least down to the Schroeder frequency (usually around 150Hz,
> depending on your room size and acoustic treatment). That's why 300Hz
> is a bit high, but it's not catastrophic.
>
> Ambisonics with height is possible with a "3D7.1" configuration (using
> a 7.1 speaker kit). I yet have to try it.
>
> --
> Marc
>
> > On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 7:12 PM, Charlie Richmond
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Marc Lavallée 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > What matters is rigidity; if a plastic enclosure is rigid
> > > > enough (for its size), then it would sound the same than a hard
> > > > wood enclosure.  In the specific case of the Z506 model from
> > > > Logitech, wooden enclosures for the satellites would make no
> > > > difference; the drivers, the amps, and the enclosures are too
> > > > small to shake. Only the sub-woofer enclosure is made of MDF, for
> > > > a reason.
> > > >
> > > > So, why not using the Z506 5.1 kit from Logitech? "Multimedia"
> > > > speakers are primarily designed as computer accessories; some are
> > > > probably well made, excluding the one in the MoMA's permanent
> > > > collection (unless aesthetic is the most important criteria). I
> > > > wouldn't trust its sound quality; it's a bit small unless the
> > > > listening distance is less than 2 meters, the centre speaker does
> > > > not match the four other satellites, the centre speaker have 2
> > > > mids and the satellites have one mid and one tweeter, and the
> > > > cross-over frequency for the sub-woofer is probably near 300Hz,
> > > > which is a bit too high. For Ambisonics, I believe that better
> > > > quality full-range or coaxial speakers, all matched, should be
> > > > preferred.
> > > >
> > > > I would only such use small multimedia speakers for a very compact
> > > > periphonic installation, along with 4 to 8 small sub-woofers for a
> > > > supplemental horizontal or periphonic low frequency decoder.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Agreed.  That said, the Logitech self powered systems are generally
> > > extremely well made and sound very good, imho.
> > >
> > > C-)
> > > -- next part --
> > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > URL: <
> > >
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131020/73b9a2d1/attachment.html
> > > >
> > > ___
> > > Sursound mailing list
> > > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
> > >
> > -- next part --
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL:
> > <
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131020/2bfcc5f5/attachment.html
> >
> > ___ Sursound mailing list
> > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
> >
>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
>



-- 
-- 
As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.

These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University

Dave Malham
Honorary Fellow, Department of Music
The University of York
York YO10 5DD
UK

'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
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Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers

[Andy Furniss]

Bearcat M. Şándor wrote:

Since we're talking about this, I've had my eye on Emotiva Stealth
8s http://www.emotivapro.com/products/stealth-8 . I assume they (or
the upcoming Stealth 88 which adds an additional 8" driver) would do
just fine for an ambisonic installation?

Now i just need to be able to afford 18 of those things..


:-) well if I were a millionaire the Genelec HT series look very nice.

More seriously, I did some time ago do a bit of searching about active
speakers just for home use. One possible issue could be back ported vs
front ported, your link looks like back ported, which could (so I have
read - no experience) have bass issues if placed close to walls.

Another thing I read albeit by an amateur reviewer about a specific
studio monitor, is that he said they wouldn't be much use for home hifi
use as the sweet spot was very narrow. Just one opinion about one
speaker of course, but something worth looking into. I have also read
the studio monitors are fine for home hifi use.
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Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers

[Michael Chapman]

> Has anyone tried  a system that was using the Z506 model for Logitech?

In 2007 I played with some Logitech X-140 speakers.
Was enough to convince me ambisonics works.
The spatialisation was actually very convincing.



Michael


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Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers

[Matthew Palmer]

Thanks so much Marc, Carlie, & everyone. - matt


On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 8:11 PM, Marc Lavallée  wrote:

> Matthew Palmer  a écrit :
> > I'm wondering if it (4 sets of Logitechs) can give me 3d
> > gratification for a little over $200. I know I'm definitely
> > sacrificing quality but it will take me ages to save up for a proper
> > set-up.
> > I don't understand what kind of amplifier would be needed though.
>
> Yes! 4 small speakers with one sub are enough as a starting point:
> I suggest reading "Localization in Horizontal-Only Ambisonic Systems" :
> http://www.ai.sri.com/ajh/ambisonics/BLaH1.pdf
>
> Use a square or rectangular configuration, and drive the sub with the W
> ambisonic channel; you can use a multimedia 5.1 kit (with integrated
> amplifiers), but the sub should be driven separately, not by a mix of
> the 4 decoded speaker channels (that's my comprehension).
> For un-amplified speakers, you can use cheap D-class amps.
>
> > I don't fully understand what cross-over frequency is (it sounds
> > obvious though) but maybe by reducing the center channels from the
> > set-up , I'd reduce the amount that is happening.
>
> I would not use the centre channel; there are experimental 5.1 decoders
> but I never tried. The cross-over frequency is between the sub-woofer
> and the satellites. Ambisonics works well at low frequencies in small
> rooms, at least down to the Schroeder frequency (usually around 150Hz,
> depending on your room size and acoustic treatment). That's why 300Hz
> is a bit high, but it's not catastrophic.
>
> Ambisonics with height is possible with a "3D7.1" configuration (using
> a 7.1 speaker kit). I yet have to try it.
>
> --
> Marc
>
> > On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 7:12 PM, Charlie Richmond
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Marc Lavallée 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > What matters is rigidity; if a plastic enclosure is rigid
> > > > enough (for its size), then it would sound the same than a hard
> > > > wood enclosure.  In the specific case of the Z506 model from
> > > > Logitech, wooden enclosures for the satellites would make no
> > > > difference; the drivers, the amps, and the enclosures are too
> > > > small to shake. Only the sub-woofer enclosure is made of MDF, for
> > > > a reason.
> > > >
> > > > So, why not using the Z506 5.1 kit from Logitech? "Multimedia"
> > > > speakers are primarily designed as computer accessories; some are
> > > > probably well made, excluding the one in the MoMA's permanent
> > > > collection (unless aesthetic is the most important criteria). I
> > > > wouldn't trust its sound quality; it's a bit small unless the
> > > > listening distance is less than 2 meters, the centre speaker does
> > > > not match the four other satellites, the centre speaker have 2
> > > > mids and the satellites have one mid and one tweeter, and the
> > > > cross-over frequency for the sub-woofer is probably near 300Hz,
> > > > which is a bit too high. For Ambisonics, I believe that better
> > > > quality full-range or coaxial speakers, all matched, should be
> > > > preferred.
> > > >
> > > > I would only such use small multimedia speakers for a very compact
> > > > periphonic installation, along with 4 to 8 small sub-woofers for a
> > > > supplemental horizontal or periphonic low frequency decoder.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Agreed.  That said, the Logitech self powered systems are generally
> > > extremely well made and sound very good, imho.
> > >
> > > C-)
> > > -- next part --
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> > >
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Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers

[Marc Lavallée]

Matthew Palmer  a écrit :
> I'm wondering if it (4 sets of Logitechs) can give me 3d
> gratification for a little over $200. I know I'm definitely
> sacrificing quality but it will take me ages to save up for a proper
> set-up. 
> I don't understand what kind of amplifier would be needed though.

Yes! 4 small speakers with one sub are enough as a starting point:
I suggest reading "Localization in Horizontal-Only Ambisonic Systems" :
http://www.ai.sri.com/ajh/ambisonics/BLaH1.pdf

Use a square or rectangular configuration, and drive the sub with the W
ambisonic channel; you can use a multimedia 5.1 kit (with integrated
amplifiers), but the sub should be driven separately, not by a mix of
the 4 decoded speaker channels (that's my comprehension).
For un-amplified speakers, you can use cheap D-class amps.

> I don't fully understand what cross-over frequency is (it sounds
> obvious though) but maybe by reducing the center channels from the
> set-up , I'd reduce the amount that is happening.

I would not use the centre channel; there are experimental 5.1 decoders
but I never tried. The cross-over frequency is between the sub-woofer
and the satellites. Ambisonics works well at low frequencies in small
rooms, at least down to the Schroeder frequency (usually around 150Hz,
depending on your room size and acoustic treatment). That's why 300Hz
is a bit high, but it's not catastrophic.

Ambisonics with height is possible with a "3D7.1" configuration (using
a 7.1 speaker kit). I yet have to try it.

--
Marc

> On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 7:12 PM, Charlie Richmond
> wrote:
> 
> > On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Marc Lavallée 
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > What matters is rigidity; if a plastic enclosure is rigid
> > > enough (for its size), then it would sound the same than a hard
> > > wood enclosure.  In the specific case of the Z506 model from
> > > Logitech, wooden enclosures for the satellites would make no
> > > difference; the drivers, the amps, and the enclosures are too
> > > small to shake. Only the sub-woofer enclosure is made of MDF, for
> > > a reason.
> > >
> > > So, why not using the Z506 5.1 kit from Logitech? "Multimedia"
> > > speakers are primarily designed as computer accessories; some are
> > > probably well made, excluding the one in the MoMA's permanent
> > > collection (unless aesthetic is the most important criteria). I
> > > wouldn't trust its sound quality; it's a bit small unless the
> > > listening distance is less than 2 meters, the centre speaker does
> > > not match the four other satellites, the centre speaker have 2
> > > mids and the satellites have one mid and one tweeter, and the
> > > cross-over frequency for the sub-woofer is probably near 300Hz,
> > > which is a bit too high. For Ambisonics, I believe that better
> > > quality full-range or coaxial speakers, all matched, should be
> > > preferred.
> > >
> > > I would only such use small multimedia speakers for a very compact
> > > periphonic installation, along with 4 to 8 small sub-woofers for a
> > > supplemental horizontal or periphonic low frequency decoder.
> > >
> >
> > Agreed.  That said, the Logitech self powered systems are generally
> > extremely well made and sound very good, imho.
> >
> > C-)
> > -- next part --
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131020/73b9a2d1/attachment.html
> > >
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Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers

[Charlie Richmond]

On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Matthew Palmer wrote:

> I'm wondering if it (4 sets of Logitechs) can give me 3d gratification for
> a little over $200. I know I'm definitely sacrificing quality but it will
> take me ages to save up for a proper set-up. I don't understand what kind
> of amplifier would be needed though.
>

Logitech and other types of computer-type loudspeaker systems are almost
exclusively self powered so no external amplifiers are required.  They do
expect, however, to be driven by the equivalent of a headphone amplifier
using a 3.5mm jack connection.  A good low impedance line level output is
usually acceptable but does not always provide a high enough voltage level.
 The input impedance of the integrated amplifier can be fairly low and is
never specified so you need to do some testing before purchasing.

C-)
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Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers

[Matthew Palmer]

& I could stay within that size of a set-up for sure.


On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 7:24 PM, Matthew Palmer wrote:

> I wouldn't trust its sound
> quality; it's a bit small unless the listening distance is less than 2
> meters, the centre speaker does not match the four other satellites,
> the centre speaker have 2 mids and the satellites have one mid and one
> tweeter, and the cross-over frequency for the sub-woofer is probably
> near 300Hz, which is a bit too high.
>
> I don't fully understand what cross-over frequency is (it sounds obvious
> though) but maybe by reducing the center channels from the set-up , I'd
> reduce the amount that is happening.
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 7:21 PM, Matthew Palmer 
> wrote:
>
>> I'm wondering if it (4 sets of Logitechs) can give me 3d gratification
>> for a little over $200. I know I'm definitely sacrificing quality but it
>> will take me ages to save up for a proper set-up. I don't understand what
>> kind of amplifier would be needed though.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 7:12 PM, Charlie Richmond 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Marc Lavallée 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>> > What matters is rigidity; if a plastic enclosure is rigid
>>> > enough (for its size), then it would sound the same than a hard wood
>>> > enclosure.  In the specific case of the Z506 model from Logitech,
>>> > wooden enclosures for the satellites would make no difference; the
>>> > drivers, the amps, and the enclosures are too small to shake. Only the
>>> > sub-woofer enclosure is made of MDF, for a reason.
>>> >
>>> > So, why not using the Z506 5.1 kit from Logitech? "Multimedia" speakers
>>> > are primarily designed as computer accessories; some are probably well
>>> > made, excluding the one in the MoMA's permanent collection (unless
>>> > aesthetic is the most important criteria). I wouldn't trust its sound
>>> > quality; it's a bit small unless the listening distance is less than 2
>>> > meters, the centre speaker does not match the four other satellites,
>>> > the centre speaker have 2 mids and the satellites have one mid and one
>>> > tweeter, and the cross-over frequency for the sub-woofer is probably
>>> > near 300Hz, which is a bit too high. For Ambisonics, I believe that
>>> > better quality full-range or coaxial speakers, all matched, should be
>>> > preferred.
>>> >
>>> > I would only such use small multimedia speakers for a very compact
>>> > periphonic installation, along with 4 to 8 small sub-woofers for a
>>> > supplemental horizontal or periphonic low frequency decoder.
>>> >
>>>
>>> Agreed.  That said, the Logitech self powered systems are generally
>>> extremely well made and sound very good, imho.
>>>
>>> C-)
>>> -- next part --
>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>> URL: <
>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131020/73b9a2d1/attachment.html
>>> >
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>>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers

[Matthew Palmer]

I wouldn't trust its sound
quality; it's a bit small unless the listening distance is less than 2
meters, the centre speaker does not match the four other satellites,
the centre speaker have 2 mids and the satellites have one mid and one
tweeter, and the cross-over frequency for the sub-woofer is probably
near 300Hz, which is a bit too high.

I don't fully understand what cross-over frequency is (it sounds obvious
though) but maybe by reducing the center channels from the set-up , I'd
reduce the amount that is happening.


On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 7:21 PM, Matthew Palmer wrote:

> I'm wondering if it (4 sets of Logitechs) can give me 3d gratification for
> a little over $200. I know I'm definitely sacrificing quality but it will
> take me ages to save up for a proper set-up. I don't understand what kind
> of amplifier would be needed though.
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 7:12 PM, Charlie Richmond 
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Marc Lavallée  wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > What matters is rigidity; if a plastic enclosure is rigid
>> > enough (for its size), then it would sound the same than a hard wood
>> > enclosure.  In the specific case of the Z506 model from Logitech,
>> > wooden enclosures for the satellites would make no difference; the
>> > drivers, the amps, and the enclosures are too small to shake. Only the
>> > sub-woofer enclosure is made of MDF, for a reason.
>> >
>> > So, why not using the Z506 5.1 kit from Logitech? "Multimedia" speakers
>> > are primarily designed as computer accessories; some are probably well
>> > made, excluding the one in the MoMA's permanent collection (unless
>> > aesthetic is the most important criteria). I wouldn't trust its sound
>> > quality; it's a bit small unless the listening distance is less than 2
>> > meters, the centre speaker does not match the four other satellites,
>> > the centre speaker have 2 mids and the satellites have one mid and one
>> > tweeter, and the cross-over frequency for the sub-woofer is probably
>> > near 300Hz, which is a bit too high. For Ambisonics, I believe that
>> > better quality full-range or coaxial speakers, all matched, should be
>> > preferred.
>> >
>> > I would only such use small multimedia speakers for a very compact
>> > periphonic installation, along with 4 to 8 small sub-woofers for a
>> > supplemental horizontal or periphonic low frequency decoder.
>> >
>>
>> Agreed.  That said, the Logitech self powered systems are generally
>> extremely well made and sound very good, imho.
>>
>> C-)
>> -- next part --
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <
>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131020/73b9a2d1/attachment.html
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>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
>>
>
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Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers

[Matthew Palmer]

I'm wondering if it (4 sets of Logitechs) can give me 3d gratification for
a little over $200. I know I'm definitely sacrificing quality but it will
take me ages to save up for a proper set-up. I don't understand what kind
of amplifier would be needed though.


On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 7:12 PM, Charlie Richmond wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Marc Lavallée  wrote:
>
> >
> > What matters is rigidity; if a plastic enclosure is rigid
> > enough (for its size), then it would sound the same than a hard wood
> > enclosure.  In the specific case of the Z506 model from Logitech,
> > wooden enclosures for the satellites would make no difference; the
> > drivers, the amps, and the enclosures are too small to shake. Only the
> > sub-woofer enclosure is made of MDF, for a reason.
> >
> > So, why not using the Z506 5.1 kit from Logitech? "Multimedia" speakers
> > are primarily designed as computer accessories; some are probably well
> > made, excluding the one in the MoMA's permanent collection (unless
> > aesthetic is the most important criteria). I wouldn't trust its sound
> > quality; it's a bit small unless the listening distance is less than 2
> > meters, the centre speaker does not match the four other satellites,
> > the centre speaker have 2 mids and the satellites have one mid and one
> > tweeter, and the cross-over frequency for the sub-woofer is probably
> > near 300Hz, which is a bit too high. For Ambisonics, I believe that
> > better quality full-range or coaxial speakers, all matched, should be
> > preferred.
> >
> > I would only such use small multimedia speakers for a very compact
> > periphonic installation, along with 4 to 8 small sub-woofers for a
> > supplemental horizontal or periphonic low frequency decoder.
> >
>
> Agreed.  That said, the Logitech self powered systems are generally
> extremely well made and sound very good, imho.
>
> C-)
> -- next part --
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Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers

[Charlie Richmond]

On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Marc Lavallée  wrote:

>
> What matters is rigidity; if a plastic enclosure is rigid
> enough (for its size), then it would sound the same than a hard wood
> enclosure.  In the specific case of the Z506 model from Logitech,
> wooden enclosures for the satellites would make no difference; the
> drivers, the amps, and the enclosures are too small to shake. Only the
> sub-woofer enclosure is made of MDF, for a reason.
>
> So, why not using the Z506 5.1 kit from Logitech? "Multimedia" speakers
> are primarily designed as computer accessories; some are probably well
> made, excluding the one in the MoMA's permanent collection (unless
> aesthetic is the most important criteria). I wouldn't trust its sound
> quality; it's a bit small unless the listening distance is less than 2
> meters, the centre speaker does not match the four other satellites,
> the centre speaker have 2 mids and the satellites have one mid and one
> tweeter, and the cross-over frequency for the sub-woofer is probably
> near 300Hz, which is a bit too high. For Ambisonics, I believe that
> better quality full-range or coaxial speakers, all matched, should be
> preferred.
>
> I would only such use small multimedia speakers for a very compact
> periphonic installation, along with 4 to 8 small sub-woofers for a
> supplemental horizontal or periphonic low frequency decoder.
>

Agreed.  That said, the Logitech self powered systems are generally
extremely well made and sound very good, imho.

C-)
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Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers

[Bearcat M . Şándor]

Since we're talking about this, I've had my eye on Emotiva Stealth 8s
http://www.emotivapro.com/products/stealth-8 . I assume they (or the
upcoming Stealth 88 which adds an additional 8" driver) would do just fine
for an ambisonic installation?

Now i just need to be able to afford 18 of those things..


On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 4:59 PM, Marc Lavallée  wrote:

> "Andrew Castiglione"  a écrit :
> > Have ever heard the difference between wood and plastic enclosures...?
> >
> > Wood is more natural... no pun intended.
> >
> > Plastic is problematic... loss of detail, rattles in high dynamics,
> > plastic has a howled presentation to boot!
> >
> > Logitech is near field... you will push the amp and motor of speakers
> > into DC
>
> What matters is rigidity; if a plastic enclosure is rigid
> enough (for its size), then it would sound the same than a hard wood
> enclosure.  In the specific case of the Z506 model from Logitech,
> wooden enclosures for the satellites would make no difference; the
> drivers, the amps, and the enclosures are too small to shake. Only the
> sub-woofer enclosure is made of MDF, for a reason.
>
> So, why not using the Z506 5.1 kit from Logitech? "Multimedia" speakers
> are primarily designed as computer accessories; some are probably well
> made, excluding the one in the MoMA's permanent collection (unless
> aesthetic is the most important criteria). I wouldn't trust its sound
> quality; it's a bit small unless the listening distance is less than 2
> meters, the centre speaker does not match the four other satellites,
> the centre speaker have 2 mids and the satellites have one mid and one
> tweeter, and the cross-over frequency for the sub-woofer is probably
> near 300Hz, which is a bit too high. For Ambisonics, I believe that
> better quality full-range or coaxial speakers, all matched, should be
> preferred.
>
> I would only such use small multimedia speakers for a very compact
> periphonic installation, along with 4 to 8 small sub-woofers for a
> supplemental horizontal or periphonic low frequency decoder.
> --
> Marc
>
>
> > Cheers!!!
> >
> > Andrew Castiglione
> > Retired WDI A/V - Imagineer
> >
> > Think awesome, build awesome and be awesome.
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> > Matthew Palmer
> > Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2013 6:16 AM
> > To: Surround Sound discussion group
> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers
> >
> > Has anyone tried  a system that was using the Z506 model for Logitech?
> > -- next part --
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>
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-- 
Bearcat M. Şándor
Feline Soul Systems LLC
Voice: 872.CAT.SOUL (872.228.7685)
Fax: 406.235.7070
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Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers

[Marc Lavallée]

"Andrew Castiglione"  a écrit :
> Have ever heard the difference between wood and plastic enclosures...?
> 
> Wood is more natural... no pun intended.
> 
> Plastic is problematic... loss of detail, rattles in high dynamics,
> plastic has a howled presentation to boot!
> 
> Logitech is near field... you will push the amp and motor of speakers
> into DC

What matters is rigidity; if a plastic enclosure is rigid
enough (for its size), then it would sound the same than a hard wood
enclosure.  In the specific case of the Z506 model from Logitech,
wooden enclosures for the satellites would make no difference; the
drivers, the amps, and the enclosures are too small to shake. Only the
sub-woofer enclosure is made of MDF, for a reason.

So, why not using the Z506 5.1 kit from Logitech? "Multimedia" speakers
are primarily designed as computer accessories; some are probably well
made, excluding the one in the MoMA's permanent collection (unless
aesthetic is the most important criteria). I wouldn't trust its sound
quality; it's a bit small unless the listening distance is less than 2
meters, the centre speaker does not match the four other satellites,
the centre speaker have 2 mids and the satellites have one mid and one
tweeter, and the cross-over frequency for the sub-woofer is probably
near 300Hz, which is a bit too high. For Ambisonics, I believe that
better quality full-range or coaxial speakers, all matched, should be
preferred.

I would only such use small multimedia speakers for a very compact
periphonic installation, along with 4 to 8 small sub-woofers for a
supplemental horizontal or periphonic low frequency decoder.
--
Marc


> Cheers!!!
> 
> Andrew Castiglione
> Retired WDI A/V - Imagineer
> 
> Think awesome, build awesome and be awesome.
> 
>
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> Matthew Palmer
> Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2013 6:16 AM
> To: Surround Sound discussion group
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers
> 
> Has anyone tried  a system that was using the Z506 model for Logitech?
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Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers

[Andrew Castiglione]

Have ever heard the difference between wood and plastic enclosures...?

Wood is more natural... no pun intended.

Plastic is problematic... loss of detail, rattles in high dynamics, plastic
has a howled presentation to boot!

Logitech is near field... you will push the amp and motor of speakers into
DC


Cheers!!!

Andrew Castiglione
Retired WDI A/V - Imagineer

Think awesome, build awesome and be awesome.

   

-Original Message-
From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Matthew
Palmer
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2013 6:16 AM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers

Has anyone tried  a system that was using the Z506 model for Logitech?
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Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers

[Matthew Palmer]

Has anyone tried  a system that was using the Z506 model for Logitech?
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Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers

[Alessandro Fogar]

Hi,

as somebody of you asked I inform you that I purchased an used set of
Creative/Cambridge Soundworks FourPoint Surround FPS 1000.

For the price they are great !

Obviously the bass extension is not so great.

I'm planning to purchase another set to build an inexpensive 8 channel
system.

All the best

AF


2013/9/25 Alessandro Fogar 

> Hi,
>
> please let me ask a basic question.
>
> I'k like to monitor some work of mine realized mainly using ATK and Sc3
> i.e. first order ambisonics.
>
> Could you plase suggest me some very small and inexpensive speakers ?
>
> Something like a Creative or Altec surround system are useless or not ?
>
> I listened recently to a installation here in Italy by Jana Winderen (the
> sound diffusion was made using a set of Logitec speakers) and it was not
> too bad.
>
> Tried to monitor using a binaural decoder but I can't hear the results.
> Too bad.
>
> Many thanks in advance.
>
> All the best
>
> --
> Alessandro Fogar
>
> http://www.fogar.it
>



-- 
Alessandro Fogar

http://www.fogar.it
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Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers

[Augustine Leudar]

these are good for the price :

http://www.gak.co.uk/en/behringer-ms-16/1089?gclid=COfplMDJ57kCFVLJtAodpRkA3Q

On 25/09/2013, Sven Thebert  wrote:
> I worked with 4 systems during my bachelor's thesis and build a 2nd order
> ambisonics system (octagon horizontal plus cube for height). Since then I
> listen to them every day (not ambisonic and not all speakers, but my daily
> podcasts and music in stereo). I think they are one of the first designs of
> Creative in connection with Cambridge Soundworks. The follow-up systems
> sound different and not so good in my opinion.
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:31 PM,  wrote:
>
>> I see a used set of 4 of the Cambridge SoundWorks FPS1000 cubes on Ebay
>> for $40 USD.
>>
>> Michael Graves
>> mgraves  mstvp.com
>> o(713) 861-4005
>> c(713) 201-1262
>> sip:mgra...@mjg.onsip.com
>> skype mjgraves
>>
>> >  Original Message 
>> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers
>> > From: Sven Thebert 
>> > Date: Wed, September 25, 2013 3:23 pm
>> > To: Surround Sound discussion group 
>> >
>> >
>> > I like the Creative/Cambridge SoundWorks FPS1000 a lot.
>> > You can only get them used. They're cheap and not nice to look at, but
>> they
>> > have great sound.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 9:45 PM, David Pickett  wrote:
>> >
>> > > At 15:47 25-09-13, Alessandro Fogar wrote:
>> > >
>> > > >I'k like to monitor some work of mine realized mainly using ATK and
>> Sc3
>> > > >i.e. first order ambisonics.
>> > > >
>> > > >Could you plase suggest me some very small and inexpensive speakers
>> > > > ?
>> > >
>> > > How about two pairs of these: http://www.stereophile.com/**
>> > > content/pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-**loudspeaker<
>> http://www.stereophile.com/content/pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-loudspeaker>
>> > >
>> > > David
>> > > __**_
>> > > Sursound mailing list
>> > > Sursound@music.vt.edu
>> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/**mailman/listinfo/sursound<
>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound>
>> > >
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Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers

[Sven Thebert]

I worked with 4 systems during my bachelor's thesis and build a 2nd order
ambisonics system (octagon horizontal plus cube for height). Since then I
listen to them every day (not ambisonic and not all speakers, but my daily
podcasts and music in stereo). I think they are one of the first designs of
Creative in connection with Cambridge Soundworks. The follow-up systems
sound different and not so good in my opinion.


On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:31 PM,  wrote:

> I see a used set of 4 of the Cambridge SoundWorks FPS1000 cubes on Ebay
> for $40 USD.
>
> Michael Graves
> mgraves  mstvp.com
> o(713) 861-4005
> c(713) 201-1262
> sip:mgra...@mjg.onsip.com
> skype mjgraves
>
> > ---- Original Message ----
> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers
> > From: Sven Thebert 
> > Date: Wed, September 25, 2013 3:23 pm
> > To: Surround Sound discussion group 
> >
> >
> > I like the Creative/Cambridge SoundWorks FPS1000 a lot.
> > You can only get them used. They're cheap and not nice to look at, but
> they
> > have great sound.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 9:45 PM, David Pickett  wrote:
> >
> > > At 15:47 25-09-13, Alessandro Fogar wrote:
> > >
> > > >I'k like to monitor some work of mine realized mainly using ATK and
> Sc3
> > > >i.e. first order ambisonics.
> > > >
> > > >Could you plase suggest me some very small and inexpensive speakers ?
> > >
> > > How about two pairs of these: http://www.stereophile.com/**
> > > content/pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-**loudspeaker<
> http://www.stereophile.com/content/pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-loudspeaker>
> > >
> > > David
> > > __**_
> > > Sursound mailing list
> > > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/**mailman/listinfo/sursound<
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound>
> > >
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Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers

[mgraves]

I see a used set of 4 of the Cambridge SoundWorks FPS1000 cubes on Ebay
for $40 USD.

Michael Graves
mgraves  mstvp.com
o(713) 861-4005
c(713) 201-1262
sip:mgra...@mjg.onsip.com
skype mjgraves

>  Original Message 
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers
> From: Sven Thebert 
> Date: Wed, September 25, 2013 3:23 pm
> To: Surround Sound discussion group 
> 
> 
> I like the Creative/Cambridge SoundWorks FPS1000 a lot.
> You can only get them used. They're cheap and not nice to look at, but they
> have great sound.
> 
> 
> On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 9:45 PM, David Pickett  wrote:
> 
> > At 15:47 25-09-13, Alessandro Fogar wrote:
> >
> > >I'k like to monitor some work of mine realized mainly using ATK and Sc3
> > >i.e. first order ambisonics.
> > >
> > >Could you plase suggest me some very small and inexpensive speakers ?
> >
> > How about two pairs of these: http://www.stereophile.com/**
> > content/pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-**loudspeaker<http://www.stereophile.com/content/pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-loudspeaker>
> >
> > David
> > __**_
> > Sursound mailing list
> > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/**mailman/listinfo/sursound<https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound>
> >
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Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers

[Sven Thebert]

I like the Creative/Cambridge SoundWorks FPS1000 a lot.
You can only get them used. They're cheap and not nice to look at, but they
have great sound.


On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 9:45 PM, David Pickett  wrote:

> At 15:47 25-09-13, Alessandro Fogar wrote:
>
> >I'k like to monitor some work of mine realized mainly using ATK and Sc3
> >i.e. first order ambisonics.
> >
> >Could you plase suggest me some very small and inexpensive speakers ?
>
> How about two pairs of these: http://www.stereophile.com/**
> content/pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-**loudspeaker
>
> David
> __**_
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/**mailman/listinfo/sursound
>
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Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers

[David Pickett]

At 15:47 25-09-13, Alessandro Fogar wrote:

>I'k like to monitor some work of mine realized mainly using ATK and Sc3
>i.e. first order ambisonics.
>
>Could you plase suggest me some very small and inexpensive speakers ?

How about two pairs of these: 
http://www.stereophile.com/content/pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-loudspeaker


David 


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Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers

[Alessandro Fogar]

Hi,

do you remember perhaps the model ?

The Z506 are affordable, but other models are expensive.

Many thanks.

All the best

AF



I used four sets of Logitech 5.1 speakers (leaving out the centre
speaker) for a young friend's Masters final major project at Bath Spa
University earlier this year and the results were stunning - they were
arranged as upper and lower octagons using 3rd order amb. for direct
audio and 1st order amb. for convolution reverb (in the b-format
domain using York Uni impulse response of York Minster) - all the
software was in Max/MSP and used the ICST externals.

The speakers were helped by the active bass management in the
accompanying subwoofers (all 4 of them)
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Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers

[Simon Edmonds]

I used four sets of Logitech 5.1 speakers (leaving out the centre speaker) for 
a young friend's Masters final major project at Bath Spa University earlier 
this year and the results were stunning - they were arranged as upper and lower 
octagons using 3rd order amb. for direct audio and 1st order amb. for 
convolution reverb (in the b-format domain using York Uni impulse response of 
York Minster) - all the software was in Max/MSP and used the ICST externals.

The speakers were helped by the active bass management in the accompanying 
subwoofers (all 4 of them)

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Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers

[Michael Chapman]

> Hi,
>
> please let me ask a basic question.
>
> I'k like to monitor some work of mine realized mainly using ATK and Sc3
> i.e. first order ambisonics.
>
> Could you plase suggest me some very small and inexpensive speakers ?
>

Sorry not a direct answer.

But it has been said on here (apologies forget who) that as the number of
speakers increase, then the quality becomes less 'relevant' --- that is a
multi-speaker array seems more forgiving.

Think the least I've paid is 20CHF (about 15 euro at the time) per pair.
They were so bad that DRC made them sound worse ..., but still got a
recognisable (and in its way impressive) 3-D image.

What one is listening to must be a big, big factor. Fireworks,
helicopters, jet planes cause less listener outrage than a well known
classical concert piece  .  .  .   suspect cutting edge 'contemprary'
music will avoid criticism (unless the audience really know the piece).

Whatever, _please_ do report back on what you finally do. It may be
anecdotal, but the more 'weight' to non-'evidence based' knowledge the
better.

Michael


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Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers

[Alessandro Fogar]

Hi Augustine,

at the moment I'm really on a low budget.

4 speakers.

I was thinking about those low end Creative (or similar systems).

This adds to my main monitor speakers (Event 20/20 BAS), my Leema Xero
hi-fi speakers and to other 6 speakers (3 different pairs).

All the best

AF


>Hi Alessadro,
>How many speakers do you need exactly and what is your budget ?

On 25 September 2013 14:47, Alessandro Fogar https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound>> wrote:

>* Hi,*>**>* please let me ask a basic question.*>**>* I'k like to monitor some 
>work of mine realized mainly using ATK and Sc3*>* i.e. first order 
>ambisonics.*>**>* Could you plase suggest me some very small and inexpensive 
>speakers ?*>**>* Something like a Creative or Altec surround system are 
>useless or not ?*>**>* I listened recently to a installation here in Italy by 
>Jana Winderen (the*>* sound diffusion was made using a set of Logitec 
>speakers) and it was not*>* too bad.*>**>* Tried to monitor using a binaural 
>decoder but I can't hear the results. Too*>* bad.*>**>* Many thanks in 
>advance.*>**>* All the best*>**>* --*>* Alessandro Fogar*>**>* 
>http://www.fogar.it*



-- 
Alessandro Fogar

http://www.fogar.it
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Re: [Sursound] Very inexpensive surround speakers

[Augustine Leudar]

Hi Alessadro,
How many speakers do you need exactly and what is your budget ?


On 25 September 2013 14:47, Alessandro Fogar  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> please let me ask a basic question.
>
> I'k like to monitor some work of mine realized mainly using ATK and Sc3
> i.e. first order ambisonics.
>
> Could you plase suggest me some very small and inexpensive speakers ?
>
> Something like a Creative or Altec surround system are useless or not ?
>
> I listened recently to a installation here in Italy by Jana Winderen (the
> sound diffusion was made using a set of Logitec speakers) and it was not
> too bad.
>
> Tried to monitor using a binaural decoder but I can't hear the results. Too
> bad.
>
> Many thanks in advance.
>
> All the best
>
> --
> Alessandro Fogar
>
> http://www.fogar.it
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