Re: [biofuels-biz] key figures for the initial costs and operating costs...
Jan, Sorry for the late reply. Did not see your question at the bottom before. Since we produce biodiesel from different oil sources, these differences could give different properties. Like coconut has better wintering properties. Our vegetable oil here is mainly from coconut so thats it. If we(all of us) produce biodiesel to an economical quantity(maybe more than what you can sell or use) then we can trade it like a commodity where it is needed. Just a though. Ken C. At 07:32 PM 6/5/01 +0200, you wrote: Hi to all, Question to Dick Carlstein: You deliver two plants for 800 litres of BD per day, do you ? 1) What are the initial costs per plant ? I have here the offer from Polish producer (for rapeseed oil esterification) for the batch 400litres/day at say US $ 11,000 (eleven thousand dollars). 2) What are the running costs: - sunflower oil (Poland rapeseed oil is about US $ 700/tonne - derived from the prices of rapeseed) - methanol ??? (or ethanol), Poland: 791 $/tonne (0,76 kg/liter is the density of methanol, ethanol: 4cents/liter) - KOH ??? (Poland 19-to 21 $/25 kg ) - electricity ??? (Poland 5cents/kWhr) 3. What are the revenue sources and their prices? - biodiesel (Poland - nobody knows yet, Petrol diesel cost US $ 440/tonne is the wholesale price), - glycerine (Poland - I do not know yet - leftovers from rapeseed sold to farmers as fodder ??? do not know yet (applies only when the BD producers gets rapeseed as the raw material) One very important remark: One can buy rapeseed and other oils at the agrarian stock exchange in Rotterdam for example. Prices are (more or less) rapeseed oil 400 to 430 Euro/tonne (three months delivery) coconut oil 355 Euro/tonne sunflower oil : Other remark: From my rough analysis (I am doing it for my to-be installation) it goes that the most important factor for BD production to be profitable is ( I want to sell it for profit) : the cost of getting oil whatever it is (sunflower, rapeseed or coconut etc.) In case of my country this price or cost of oil should not exceed US$ 400/tonne. Any comments Last question to Ken: What do you mean by economic quantity of biodiesel ??? jan surwka to-be producer and seller of rapeseed derived biodiesel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ - Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/free_video/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Ethanol from cellulose
Iogen press releases say they've just finished a 100 tonne (per day I think) pilot plant in Canada. They must be fairly confident. They say the cellulose enzyme process is econmic compared to the acid process developed by some US universities. Their planned feedstock is straw from the wheat praries, but it could be anything containing cellulose - waste timber, waste paper, etc. Dave Yes, they all seem to say something like that, Iogen's been saying it awhile (at least a year now that I know of). The acid hydrolysis process is very old, I don't think it was developed by US universities. You should read the overview at the link I posted: Wood-Ethanol Report: Technology Review, Environment Canada 1999 -- good overview of the problem and the current solutions on offer. http://www.pyr.ec.gc.ca/ep/wet/section16.html Keith Addison --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip As for ethanol look at www.iogen.ca. They have a commercial enzyme process that converts cellulose from timber straw and waste paper/card into ethanol. I have no idea if it's cheaper after excise tax than dino fuel, but it's certainly clean and renewable. Iogen and others, but I'd say it's not there yet - and it's been a long time coming. Here's a rundown on it from Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_link.html Ethanol from cellulose Wood-Ethanol Report: Technology Review, Environment Canada 1999 -- good overview of the problem and the current solutions on offer. http://www.pyr.ec.gc.ca/ep/wet/section16.html Fuel From Sawdust -- by Mike Brown (from Acres, USA, 19 June 1983): Conversion of cellulose, such as sawdust, cornstalks, newspaper and other substances, to alcohol -- a fairly uncomplicated and straightforward process. Biofuels Library. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html Arkenol Inc. is a pioneer in processing cellulose biomas into ethanol: agricultural wastes, straw, leaves, grass clippings, sawdust or old newspapers. The company uses proprietary concentrated acid hydrolysis technology and is in the final development stages for a 48 million litre per year biorefinery in Sacramento, California processing rice straw. http://www.arkenol.com The Iogen Corporation of Canada is the leader in developing and manufacturing ethanol-from-cellulose. The Iogen process is an enzymatic hydrolysis process for converting lignocellulosics to ethanol -- uses steam explosion pretreatment pioneered by the company and Iogen's proprietary enzymes. http://www.iogen.ca/fuels.htm BC International Corporation uses a genetically modified organism to produce ethanol from biomass wastes such as agricultural residues, municipal waste, and forest thinnings. Two-stage dilute acid hydrolysis process for the preparation of the sugar streams and two separate fermentations although both use the same organism. http://www.bcintlcorp.com/ Ethanol Production in Hawaii, a pre-feasibility study who a focus on ethanol from cellulose. Includes comparison of the different processes: simultaneous saccharification and fermentation; concentrated acid hydrolysis, neutralization and fermentation; ammonia disruption, hydrolysis and fermentation; steam disruption, hydrolysis and fermentation; acid disruption and transgenic microorganism fermentation; concentrated acid hydrolysis, acid recycle and fermentation; and acidified acetone extraction, hydrolysis and fermentation. http://www.hawaii.gov/dbedt/ert/ethanol/ethano94.html Good list of references: http://www.hawaii.gov/dbedt/ert/ethanol/refs.html Also: Genencore DOE Move Closer to Fuel Ethanol from Biomass Cellulose - See: Biomass Conversion with Enzymes: http://www.newuses.org/EG/EG-23/23genetic.html Keith Addison With dino at current prices, the fuel excise tax system has to favour non-petroleum fuels. Dave Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] cost of WVO
The bog standard fee which is charged for picking up WVO from a restaurant is £1 per 25 litre can. Get your local community recyclers involved - they've got the transport / infrastructure / links with the council. Having a new material they can recycle gives them kudos, and gives them a better chance of collecting all the other recyclables from a restaurant. John (community recycler) __ Do You Yahoo!? Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. http://buzz.yahoo.com/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Standards - was Re: [biofuel] The importance of proper filtering
I don't know... Petrol, gasoline and ethanol make no mention of the engine type they are used in. Also the name diesel suggests we are connected with the dirty stuff provided by the petrochem industry. Petrol and gasoline are not trying to establish themselves in a tough market, as is biodiesel. Adding the bio to diesel tends to dissociate it from the petrocorps and give it a quite different connotation, not dirty. Why be shy about the word diesel when you're going to have to explain it in the next breath anyway? And I don't think we should be shy of diesels, we should be proud of what we do with our diesels, we've got the best answer going. If we dump the name diesel perhaps we also dump all it's dirty associations. I don't think biodiesel does have dirty associations. I don't think diesel does either, except in the US - everyone else is promoting diesels because they cut CO2, and they're clean enough these days anyway, very clean indeed once you dump the fuel. See, for instance: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/27/business/27DIES.html It Gets 78 Miles a Gallon, but U.S. Snubs Diesel Anyway, you're proposing that all the really hard work done by so many people to publicise biodiesel should be abandoned because of a few confused countries in SE Asia - nor would it necessarily solve the problem in SE Asia, quite possibly just add to the confusion. The Germans call it FAME or Diester. We can finds ways to knock those names but at least they don't try to associate with the dirty petro stuff. No need to find ways to knock them, they're meaningless, nobody knows what they are, they're not names that associate with anything, won't stick easily in the public mind. All the other names are similarly meaningless, only biodiesel explains itself. Try it on a reporter. What's FAME? he'll say. Fatty Acid Methyl Esters. Uh-huh. You'll never get either of them in a headline, that's for sure. Why create extra problems which the existing term doesn't have? Best Keith Addison D --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think we need to reconsider the fuel's name. The term biodiesel means methyl ester (to us), but to almost anybody else it simply means a fuel with a biological content. We could start calling the stuff we make methyl ester, but that's not the whole solution maybe bioester is better as it would also support ethyl ester. But it would take us away from diesel, which would be a great loss. Nobody knows what ester means - ethyl ester sounds like a 50s movie star, and methyl ester like the old soak she became by the 90s. Biodiesel is a good term. I think the best solution, if there is one, is to promote real biodiesel, as opposed to SVO - straight veggie oil - in the SE Asian region. There are people in Thailand making biodiesel and planning to go commercial if they can. Here's a message from one such: From: kesara [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [biofuel] Thai king promotes home-grown green palm fuels Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:37:04 +0700 Hi! Keith, Thanks for your concern. We are trying to set our plant very soon if possible. Many people are interested in our project. Seems like we are the first group in our country to be able to transesterify coconut oil in a large batch. They came to us with some promises to help us set up the plant however we haven't gone to that point yet. Any way we still plan to set it up in our home first. We may face some problems from the law about BD distribution. Could you let us know how the biofuel-biz group can help to set up the project? Thanks. Kesara All best Keith Addison Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: key figures for the initial costs and operating costs...
answer in your em : Sent: Martes 19 de Junio de 2001 09:25 Subject: [biofuels-biz] Re: key figures for the initial costs and operating costs... So still looking stupid at this end :)... i had to learn, just like you. i don't consider that makes me stupid !!! just curious, what ??? We are talking about nine thousand, one hundred dollars (US) for an 800 litre processor. yup. faf. that means delivered in buenos aires, argentina. tech transfer and joint ventures are a possibility. it would help if you told me whereabouts you are located. we're negotiating joint ventures in several locations. # What does this price include? the plant, faf, plus instalation and start-up. travel to final destination, and per diem extra. client provides 220 vac - 15 hp / compressed air / methanol-vegetable oil-glicerol-biodiesel storage. (optional 3 x 380 vac). # How many batches can it make per day? two 400 liter batches is nominal capacity. each batch takes ~ 2 hrs. # Could the output be increased by pumping the reacted contents into a separate settling tank(s)? yes, roughly 50 % capacity increase for each 400 liter settling tank. we don't recommend more than four settling tanks. each settling tank must have it's own electrical, pressure and vacuum connections. settling tanks are u$s 3'900.00 each. Sorry it looks terse but it's easier to read like that! i'd call it concise. cheers, dick. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Materials Conversion Table
I believe it was to this list I posted the question about how much does a 5 gallon container of WVO weigh. These figures I needed for calculating the size of the truck I would need to purchase to collect WVO from restaurant sites. Well in my research browsing I was able to find the data I needed as well as information for folks who may be collecting sawdust or newsprint or various other recylables for re-use. The table is not suitable for cut and pasting to the list so if you are interested in just how much sawdust you can put into the back of your pickup before you break something, follow this link.Sorry this table is only available in american weight. Their are hundreds of conversion calculators out there however. http://www.opala.org/matconv.html Cheers, Cordain Lucas Dulles, VA _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: the data for hydrogen using biodiesel installation....
Hi all, I think when you hydrogenate the glycerine, it becomes a wax. Can someone check on this. Anyone know where to get some hydrogen to test this? Ken C. At 12:40 PM 6/19/01 +, you wrote: You are sort of right with your assumptions about feedstock requirements. You need: # Vegetable oils or animal fats these can be new or waste products from the food industry. New oils are easiest to work with but are expensive. # Methanol about 12.5% of finished methyl ester is methanol. (not technically correct but about right for financial budgeting. # KOH for new oil you will use about 7g per litre for waste oil you will use more according to tests to confirm the free fatty acid content. # Water to wash the settled ester # Small amount of acid to neutralise the ester before washing (there are various ways of doing this to avoid forming a nasty emulsion) I don't know what they use the hydrogen for unless it is to somehow treat a byproduct. The byproducts are: # Crude glycerol which can be sold for distilling into high grade glycerine. # Free fatty acids, these are the unreactable fats created when oils are cooked. There are ways to process these into low grade fuels # If you use KOH and H2SO4 you will get potassium suphate. There are various processes to dewater this for sale as fertiliser. This is all very well but you need to make sure you have a market for the biodiesel and if using waste oils the FFA. Obviously no market = no business. I think you have to aim to sell your biodiesel at below the cost charged for mineral diesel. This is great where the country's excise tax is applied to petroleum fuels. It's not so good if they apply it to hydrocarbon fuels. Also remember that DIN standard biodiesel will give about 5% fewer miles per litre than most petroleum diesel fuels. Your price also needs to account for this. --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jan Surwka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Mauro, Thank you very much for your very comprehensive data. I was discussing with the big fertilizer company that has all necessary utilities just on-site. They together with the German investor plan to construct installation between 30,00 and 100,000 tons/yr of biodiesel. The plant will be using: mehanol and KOH, hydrogen, rapeseed oil, water, steam and electricity. Since the fertilizer factory is producing also the so-called OXO alcohols for which the methanol is the raw material the buy it in bulk quantities. Their price for methanol is $791/tonne ( as I was told) and this price would very good bargain for them. I observed the methanol price discussion and noted that everywhere the price of methanol is higher than that. The same applies to to KOH - also the prices are lower than normal market prices - I do not know exactly figures Details of technology based on hydrogen: to tell you the truth I do not know. The only thing I know that this technology is probably developed by a very good chemical Polish engineer (he is now a professor of applied chemistry). The technology is claimed to be unique, low cost and excellent in performance. I will try to reach these secrets and will let you know. The above opinions are no mine - I heard them from people working at this fertilizer factory. They have already tries produce biodiesel 10 years ago with technological success and market disaster (nobody was interested at that time in biodiesel). What I know about this technology is that: - it will be using KOH and methanol - it will be using hydrogen (for what I do not know), - it will be using water and steam and power to run the equipment - it will be producing: biodiesel, glycerine of pharmaceutical (farmakopea as you put it) quality and probably some wastewater. That is all for now... jan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ - Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/free_video/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: Materials Conversion Table
Oil is about 850g per litre (similar to ester), but assume the same as water and you'll not go far wrong. Overloading is asking for trouble. Most collectors swap poly barrels full for empty. Dave --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], doctor who [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe it was to this list I posted the question about how much does a 5 gallon container of WVO weigh. These figures I needed for calculating the size of the truck I would need to purchase to collect WVO from restaurant sites. Cheers, Cordain Lucas Dulles, VA _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: key figures for the initial costs and operating costs...
Do you have contact details for the Polish equipment supplier and do you know what their output is per hour? Dave --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jan, Sorry for the late reply. Did not see your question at the bottom before. Since we produce biodiesel from different oil sources, these differences could give different properties. Like coconut has better wintering properties. Our vegetable oil here is mainly from coconut so thats it. If we(all of us) produce biodiesel to an economical quantity(maybe more than what you can sell or use) then we can trade it like a commodity where it is needed. Just a though. Ken C. At 07:32 PM 6/5/01 +0200, you wrote: Hi to all, Question to Dick Carlstein: You deliver two plants for 800 litres of BD per day, do you ? 1) What are the initial costs per plant ? I have here the offer from Polish producer (for rapeseed oil esterification) for the batch 400litres/day at say US $ 11,000 (eleven thousand dollars). 2) What are the running costs: - sunflower oil (Poland rapeseed oil is about US $ 700/tonne - derived from the prices of rapeseed) - methanol ??? (or ethanol), Poland: 791 $/tonne (0,76 kg/liter is the density of methanol, ethanol: 4cents/liter) - KOH ??? (Poland 19-to 21 $/25 kg ) - electricity ??? (Poland 5cents/kWhr) 3. What are the revenue sources and their prices? - biodiesel (Poland - nobody knows yet, Petrol diesel cost US $ 440/tonne is the wholesale price), - glycerine (Poland - I do not know yet - leftovers from rapeseed sold to farmers as fodder ??? do not know yet (applies only when the BD producers gets rapeseed as the raw material) One very important remark: One can buy rapeseed and other oils at the agrarian stock exchange in Rotterdam for example. Prices are (more or less) rapeseed oil 400 to 430 Euro/tonne (three months delivery) coconut oil 355 Euro/tonne sunflower oil : Other remark: From my rough analysis (I am doing it for my to-be installation) it goes that the most important factor for BD production to be profitable is ( I want to sell it for profit) : the cost of getting oil whatever it is (sunflower, rapeseed or coconut etc.) In case of my country this price or cost of oil should not exceed US$ 400/tonne. Any comments Last question to Ken: What do you mean by economic quantity of biodiesel ??? jan surwka to-be producer and seller of rapeseed derived biodiesel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ - Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/free_video/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: free links
Used oil ester is always darker than new oil ester. But perhaps this explains why my acid-base batch gave poor miles per gallon. I used loads of methanol, but it was a dark colour. Maybe I did not use enough base catalyst. Or maybe I over-did the acid stage. Does anybody have any timings for the acid stage based on feedstock titrations. Last time we discussed, Alex had not had any oils of various quality to test. Dave --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You could test for specific gravity (use a hydrometer) , viscosity, gel points (temp at which it starts to solidify), or flash points. All of these need to be (about) right for an effective fuel, and are easy to test for. I got a catalogue for a schools chemistry supplier - they have all sorts of cheap(ish) meters - tho we haven't tried em yet - they're called Philip Harris and the phone no. is 0870 6000193 (UK only ). If you say your'e a school they'll sell you chemicals (yuk yuk) john Aleks lists a few useful tests, here, see Quality: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html Also this, from Aleks: There is a rule of thumb: the brighter yellow in color, the better the crack. As a standard you should take virgin sunflower oil yellow color in see through sunlight. (it's a sort of colourometry)Then take a glass jar of the stuff and place it in front of a white wall in the evening. When seen in reflected light of a tungsten bulb it should not change to orange (a very simple case of absorbtion spectrometry). 1.Nicely cracked bio : very pale yellow (less than virgin sunflower oil) and no change in color with artificial lighting 2.Acceptable bio : yellow like virgin sunflower oil or straw, but will get orangy undertone in reflected tungsten light 3.Deeper color diesel has a lot of glyc in it in form of various glycerids. Not good for standard engines. Remedy: If the diesel is too dark and you are sure that you used the correct quantitie(s) of catayst(s), add a pinch more of alcohol. Can be that you are loosing it due to evaporation. (it's getting quite hot in Slovenija) Best Keith Addison Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Polish manufacturer....
Hi Dave, I have the contact data of the batch technology provider and several producers of the equipment. The batch installation is for producing methyl esters from rapeseed oil. The capacity (thruput) is 400 litres/day (little more than 100 gallons/day). I do not know their hourly capacity. Dave where are you ? jan surwka [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Fish oil
Just out of curiosity does fish oil stink when it's burned? I could see sitting behind a truck in traffic the smells like french frys or donuts but fish yu...a trail of cats wherever you go. Maybe a market for the animal control vehicles. cheers, cordain dulles, va. From: Mike Brownstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Fish oil Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 19:49:24 +0200 Are you saying that there is no substantial difference in processing fish oil versus the other types ( veggie and lard )? My supply of oil is dark brown and liquid. It comes from the sludge at the bottom of fish oil container tanks(no water). There are no solids in it. I have not noticed any congealing. My cats going crazy!! Could you give me more detail? Mike -Original Message- From: Biofuels [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 1:08 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Fish oil Been there, done it, got the polymerised t-shirt! Advice - don't try too much at one time and pour the polymers out of the mixing tank before they congeal. Or have lots of hot water handy and somewhere remote from felines to dispose of. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] me and my big mouth re: smalltimers
Ian, nobody took you that seriously - keep us posted and contact me direst if you have any problems (legal!) with CE [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fish oil
Been there, done it, got the polymerised t-shirt! Advice - don't try too much at one time and pour the polymers out of the mixing tank before they congeal. Or have lots of hot water handy and somewhere remote from felines to dispose of. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Fish oil
http://www.globefish.org/publications/commodityupdate/200010/200010.htm enjoy, cordain dulles, va From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Re: Fish oil Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 18:15:12 - Does anyone know where to get a price of bulk fish oil. Is it not one of the cheapest types of renewable oil. Jonathan Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Fish oil
Has anyone used fish oils for the production of biodiesel? Would the standard procedures work or does fish oil present a problem? Mike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Automotive Alternator as a Windpower Resource
Nice link. People using gensets made with auto alternators can benefit from this one. For windpower you need to engineer a cut in speed as well since rotation is very variable. Also starting torque is larger if energised. If you want power in light air movement modulation of field is also necessary -- otherwise cut in speed is 40 watts steady state. That can be greatly reduced with the difference available for battery charging instead of used by alternator excitation. If building a system larger than 1/2 kilowatt use higher voltage than 12. 48v has some nice compromises although to avoid regulation and interference from gvt. types you can't go that high. I think regulatory agencies get involved above 24 volts. I'll have to look it up unless someone has the number handy. Kirk -Original Message- From: steve spence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 6:42 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Automotive Alternator as a Windpower Resource check out the aftermarket regulators at http://www.amplepower.com Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 1:19 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Automotive Alternator as a Windpower Resource I think all the external regulator alternators were less than 60 amperes max. They are useable within that limitation. Kirk -Original Message- From: Christopher S. Weller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2001 8:11 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Automotive Alternator as a Windpower Resource Sorry I'm behind in my reading kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK. Have to finish my paper Automotive Alternator as a Windpower Resource first.Auto alternator will work well if you replace the regulator and place diodes external to unit. If you are going to remove the voltage regulator why not just use a ford alternator (gen) and not add the volt regulator Chris PS i would like to read the paper if at all possible [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.256 / Virus Database: 129 - Release Date: 5/31/2001 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.256 / Virus Database: 129 - Release Date: 5/31/2001 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.256 / Virus Database: 129 - Release Date: 5/31/2001 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.256 / Virus Database: 129 - Release Date: 5/31/2001 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Caustic soda in the UK
Hi Sorry to be short, but you can't have looked far. I've yet to find a DIY sorry in the UK that doesn't stock it. Mangers is the most common brand. Simon Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fish oil
Let me spell it out. Transesterification can be carried out on fish oil, the same as vegetable oil or animal fats. However, because of enormous long molecular chains, the result is a polymerised goo. It is not a pretty sight. It is not an easy mess to clear out, as it sets semi-hard. It stinks to high heaven. I do not recommend the process to anyone other than dedicated masochists and people I take a dislike to! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fish oil
Fish oil stinks when it is fresh. It stinks when it is not fresh. It stinks when you burn it straight. It stinks when you esterify it. It stinks when you burn the resultant polymer. Apart from that, it's not too bad. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] me and my big mouth re: smalltimers
Hi Ian Wow, that's quite a chunk of humble pie you just ate! Too much, IMHO - it's called a learning curve, eh? And we can all learn from that. So, thanks Ian, please stick around, and looking forward to seeing your new web pages. Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Hi all Well, I certainly have some explaining to do. I would like to apologise to all with my remarks in the 'smalltimer' thread I fired up. It was really stupid, for a start off, all of you who populate this list are good law abiding citizens and I can honestly say the remarks I made were not aimed towards any of you. In a round about way I'm trying to protect anybody jumping on the biod bandwagon and making a fast buck without looking much more carefully at the legal and environmental issues of production, just making them think. :) Now, On my first initial batches, Ive skirted around giving proper answers on this forum, for the very simple reason, I wasnt registered. I was running scared. I built my processor and started gleening knowledge before I got into the legal side of things. BIG MISTAKE. I shouldve sat down, gone through everything, done a few batches microscale. Once happy with a microscale batch, get registered with customs excise, go on to produce a large scale usable batch. I'm happy to say using both Aleks' 'Foolproof' method and his 2 stage process which I prefer, I have produced some amazing fuel. I can assure any of you readers who might be connected with CE that no fuel has seen the inners of any vehicle, heating aparatus , or diesel driven machinery. But I'm ready to. In the meantime, whilst waiting for formalities to sort out, I'm finding time to build some web pages with loads of info on my processor how to build it, and other things that UK newcomers should be aware of. I'm an honest bloke not out to rip anyone off, just want to do my bit for the environment. My apologies once again. I will understand if you would all like me to leave the list, as I feel Ive messed a lot of people around here. Ian Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Climate Change
Shsh, how times do change! A few months back I posted a few questions on this list regarding the selling of global warming. The true believers on this list responded by giving me a beating, virtually speaking, for daring to question such 'Scientific Truth'. Now it appears that heretics are dominating this list. Most amusing, indeed. ;-) -- ...Warren Rekow You think they're dominating? I'd put it about even, currently, with a few voices yet to be heard. Looking at it another way, even if it turns out that human-caused CO2 emissions have nothing or vanishingly little to do with climate and that there is no global warming, that it's all a myth/mistake/communist propaganda or whatever, moves to cut CO2 emissions are generally beneficial. Replace dinodiesel with biodiesel, for instance, and you're cutting GG emissions, yes, but you're also reducing the cancer risk by more than 90%. Global warming or not, we - the industrialised countries and especially the US - are much too profligate with energy, especially fossil-fuel energy. Regardless of emissions, it's a non-renewable resource and we're wasting it. The climate change issue is doing more than anything else to counter that. Energy efficiency is a general good, and there's a hell of a lot of room for improvement. There are spin-offs too. Someone who pays attention to energy efficiency and avoids fossil fuels where possible will almost certainly leave a generally smaller eco-footprint, and might get active in other areas as well, such as Kirk's concern for water quality. Same goes for all the scientific attention being focused on the climate, and thus on the biosphere and the environment and our role in it. About time, maybe. But... But what exactly? What's the downside? What it'll cost the economy? Will it really? Will it cost as much as the Y2K bill? That didn't seem to wreck any economies that I noticed, everyone simply paid up for this gross bit of idiocy and we never heard any more about it. If it's a conspiracy it's a most strange one - where are the usual suspects? Not quite where you'd expect them to be. Who benefits, apart from everybody? Anyone heard any views from Tuvalu or the Maldives recently? Hey, I haven't heard anything much from the Maldives for years, last I heard concerned the departure from a particular Maldive of an extremely pissed off German murderer. He'd killed someone there and they didn't quite know what to do about it, they're not used to murderers. So they punished him by putting him on this little island, I think just him and a guard or two. But the only little islands they have to spare are more like tropical paradises than Alcatraz. So there he sat on his tropical paradise, what everyone dreams of, not doing a lot of suffering. Then some do-gooder civil rights group back home in Germany got to hear of the barbaric plight the poor man was being subjected to and, for all his cries of No! No! Let me suffer, I deserve it! they managed to get him repatriated to Germany, to a German jail, where he probably still languishes. Well, maybe the island's sinking, maybe they saved his life. Or maybe not. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Fish oil
Does anyone know where to get a price of bulk fish oil. Is it not one of the cheapest types of renewable oil. Jonathan Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Fish oil
With all the commercial fisheries (and fishermen) going tits up, I don't know if you can really consider fish oil renewable. I'd be amazed if it stayed cheap for long, since there are strong indications that overfishing of the oil species are part of the problem for the other fisheries, i.e., those which eat the oil fishes like menhaden and anchovy, and so regulation will probably hit them quite hard next. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know where to get a price of bulk fish oil. Is it not one of the cheapest types of renewable oil. Jonathan -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: Fish oil
Sure!! $250.00/metric ton (RSA) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 8:15 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Re: Fish oil Does anyone know where to get a price of bulk fish oil. Is it not one of the cheapest types of renewable oil. Jonathan Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Tom who?
http://www.woodgas.com/biodies.htm Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: Christopher S. Weller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 1:13 PM Subject: [biofuel] Tom who? Keith Addison wrote But there are good resources for them now, if they go to the right places they won't go far wrong. When we first made biodiesel about all we had to go on was one and a half pages by Tom Reed (which got us there, us and many others). Things are rather different these days. Okay still playing ketchup to the rest of ya'll Who is Tom Reed and where can I find this page and a half Big City Boy trying to get back to the basic with an 8 year looking over my shoulder telling me what to do [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Government protections
Very good point-one I hadn't even considered. Bush' oil buddies wouldn't like conservation-oops, I meant competition... E.J. On Tue, 19 Jun 2001 09:50:51 -0700 Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: E.J. writes: ...Unfortunately, this gives the government a very powerful argument for protecting us from ourselves. They say it needs doing because of the fools, therefore another reason for bigger, and more inclusive government. If this keeps up at the rate it has been going, we will have NO personal freedoms left. Anyone care to lay odds that driving on (maybe even MAKING) homemade biodiesel will be made illegal by the U.S. gummint, in the name of protecting the environment. Actually of course, it will be to protect their big oil buddies who might actually lose a coupla bucks -K Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Click for Details Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] me and my big mouth re: smalltimers
Ian, I think you brought up some interesting points. Although I have made some small batches of Bio-d, I have often wondered what would I do with all of the glycerin and wash water when I began making larger batches. When you start making 100 gallons or more bio-d, it is no longer feasible to dump the excess out back. So careful consideration will have to be made about how to deal with the waste product. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Climate Change
Keith said: Looking at it another way, even if it turns out that human-caused CO2 emissions have nothing or vanishingly little to do with climate and that there is no global warming, that it's all a myth/mistake/communist propaganda or whatever, moves to cut CO2 emissions are generally beneficial. Replace dinodiesel with biodiesel, for instance, and you're cutting GG emissions, yes, but you're also reducing the cancer risk by more than 90%. Keith, there is so much to like in your perspective. Action to improve energy efficiency and increase environmental awareness is all to the good. Yet, I still question the selling of global warming. In spite of what may appear to be good underlying intentions, promoting fear-based propaganda of any kind primarily serves to deceive, manipulate and blind others. Such is not the road to social, scientific or any other form of enlightenment, IMHO. Global warming or not, we - the industrialised countries and especially the US - are much too profligate with energy, especially fossil-fuel energy. Regardless of emissions, it's a non-renewable resource and we're wasting it. The climate change issue is doing more than anything else to counter that. Energy efficiency is a general good, and there's a hell of a lot of room for improvement. I agree, but segregate energy efficiency from resource conservation or harmful emissions. It is largely off-topic for this list, but I look for the day when we make practical use of the zero-point energy. If this scenario becomes reality then it may be that energy efficiency becomes relatively moot due to this energy's massive, universal and non-polluting availability. But... But what exactly? What's the downside? What it'll cost the economy? Will it really? Will it cost as much as the Y2K bill? That didn't seem to wreck any economies that I noticed, everyone simply paid up for this gross bit of idiocy and we never heard any more about it. If it's a conspiracy it's a most strange one - where are the usual suspects? Not quite where you'd expect them to be. Who benefits, apart from everybody? I don't know if global warming serves anyone's conspiracy. Potential grant recipients may seek to be paid from the public treasury, and organizations may seek additional revenue by promoting some aspect of the global warming concern, but being self-serving is not conspiracy unless there is a knowing attempt to defraud others. If extensive resources are being expended on a wrongly defined problem then those resources are likely being misdirected while genuine problems go wanting. A relative few may thus benefit, but certainly not everybody. -- ...Warren Rekow Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Fwd: Stirling Engines
Orgone Biophysical Research Lab [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.orgonelab.org Forwarded News Item Please copy and distribute to other interested individuals and groups 3) Technology Development for Sustainable Energy Generation Stirling engines are external combustion engines that can use most any fuel (including biomass, solar, geothermal, fossil or anything that produces heat), and can drive a generator for onsite electrical power. Stirling engines are inherently efficient, since they use regenerators that recycle heat back to the power stroke of its piston. The following article was recently published on the developmental efforts of an early stage company seeking to revolutionize the power industry with cost-effective onsite power generation that could significantly reduce pollution entering our atmosphere. Who needs nukes when you have innovative technologies dating back 200 years waiting to be developed for today's energy and environmental standards. = = = = = = = = = Athol company on cutting edge with 200-year-old engine concept May 24, 2001 The Recorder, Greenfield, MA, page 1. By RICHIE DAVIS Recorder Staff ATHOL -- Try to imagine an unlikely setting for a high-tech, energy-efficient engine. You'd be hard-pressed to come up with anything that beats the old vise factory here where Ricardo Conde and company are revving up their Stirling engine prototype. In fact, it's hard to imagine how the Stirling engine -- a nearly 200-year-old contraption that once powered tractors and fell into disuse when the internal combustion engine came into vogue -- can be looked on as innovative at all. This is an EXTERNAL combustion engine, which Conde and other principals in Stirling Advantage Inc. have rescued from the automotive uses that have attracted most researchers over the years. Instead, the 6-year-old company has been working on developing a Stirling engine to generate 200-kilowatts of power for hospitals, hotels, factories and similar uses. It produces both heat and electricity, can be fueled with solar power, biomass, natural gas or other fuels and gives off low nitrous emissions. ``We said, `Let's forget trying to make it fit under the hood of a car and (instead) make it for what it's best suited,''' said Conde, who hopes to have 20 test model generators ready in about a year or two, if he can raise the capital. So far, they've spent about $1 million researching and developing the technology he sees as Stirling gold. Conde is among the participants in this afternoon's renewable energy Tour de Sol-related Green Futures workshops at Greenfield Community College. He is the 40-year-old president and chief executive officer of Stirling Advantage. With training at New York City Technical College, Brooklyn Polytechnic Institute and Parsons School of Design, the New Salem resident has had a lifelong interest in technology development and worked with Athol's solar-power research octogenarian, Alvin Marks, before turning to optical films and polarizers and ultimately the engine first invented in 1816 by Scottish minister Robert Stirling. Using a heat source external to the engine, his invention pushes a power piston when hot air expands, not unlike the exploding gases inside a car engine pushing a piston. The Stirling engine's 16 percent greater potential efficiency -- allegedly the highest of any heat engine -- comes from using heat exchangers to cool the hot expanded gas while retaining some of that heat to power the next cycle. Those pushes of the piston are converted to mechanical motion by rods and a flywheel, and eventually drive an electric generator. The heat that is recovered in the cooling cycle then can be recycled, to heat a building, for example. (In a car's internal combustion engine much of that heat is simply wasted through hot exhaust and the radiator.) Stirling Advantage began focusing on the technology 3 years ago, after consulting with a team of businesses trying to develop a 2-megawatt generator for a building on New York's Times Square, Conde said. The project proved too expensive, ``but we realized there were flaws in the basic premise of using the technology,'' said Conde. By reworking a Swedish military design, Conde was able to home in on a plan based on industrial rather than automotive needs. While other Stirling developers are busy working on solar-powered 25-kilowatt generators that require a 35-foot dish to capture the sun's rays, the Athol team is concentrating on a much larger generator that burns natural gas in the United States and biomass in Third World countries. Biomass is fuel derived from corn, wood or other crops, or from methane gases from landfills, for example. Using the power directly, along with heat, makes this technique much more efficient, said Conde. Instead of driving up costs through transmission of electricity from a central generating plant or storing the electricity produced, Conde said, ``Our solution is just don't
Re: [biofuel] Re: Government protections
OK while I believe there are certain truths in these points of paranoia. Dont miss the obvious that is happening in the western states right now. Why do you think bush and his big oil politicians are pushing so hard for the Electric rates to go up in California and other western states? Sure what kind of money saveings will it be if you have to pay through the nose for the electricity to recharge your electric vehicle? -Bryan - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 9:50 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Government protections E.J. writes: ...Unfortunately, this gives the government a very powerful argument for protecting us from ourselves. They say it needs doing because of the fools, therefore another reason for bigger, and more inclusive government. If this keeps up at the rate it has been going, we will have NO personal freedoms left. Anyone care to lay odds that driving on (maybe even MAKING) homemade biodiesel will be made illegal by the U.S. gummint, in the name of protecting the environment. Actually of course, it will be to protect their big oil buddies who might actually lose a coupla bucks -K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: Government protections
Greetings folks. Can one convert spent motor oil into diesel? ND Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Alcohol from wood
Dear Listmates, The recent discussion of wood hydrolysis reminded me that I had promised to translate the relevant parts of Boullanger's treatise from French into English; this I am finally doing. I also found good information on saccharification in Haegglund's treatise on wood chemistry. I will scan those pages, which are already in English. To whom should I send this stuff for archiving? I keep forgetting. Best, Marc de Piolenc Iligan, Philippines Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Climate Change
RE: Reducing cancer risk by use of biodiesel (climate change) ..also you are eliminating sulphur; reducing particulates substantially; using a waste as a resource and/or supporting agriculture and new crops or uses of crops that we might not always think of when we think of biodiesel, (eg. Jatropha, Honge, nuts, algae); supporting local and regional economic development via job creation and the retention of money within local economies and thereby capturing multiplier effects; contributing to energy independence; reducing the need to cut and haul firewood (if biodiesel used for heating and light); allowing the ongoing use of existing diesels and the large amounts of embodied energy contained in their blocks and parts instead of scrapping prematurely because of an association with the petrodiesel fuel used; reducing reliance on the long distance transportation of energy and attendant risk of spills and soil and water contamination; reducing the cost of maintenance of water treatment works and systems by making a market for used veg. oil; reducing the likelihood and cost of regional military conflict and interventons by creating more possibilities for energy self-supply...and so on... The same sort case can be made for other renewable energies (especially those that can be accomplished without undue reliance on capital or technology and cn be accomplished on a small scale, duplicated many times in many places), and conservation efforts. If the need to combat climate change turns out to have been unnecessary, (which at this point is doubtful, IMHO, considering that among those most concerned are the insurance companies, who have seen their claims rise substantially from weather events wholly unanticipated by their actuaries, and are thus keenly interested in understanding what has caused this and what might happen next) , the need to make improvements in these other environmental, social and economic ways is obvious. Ed B. www.biofuels.ca From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 02:59:31 +0900 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Climate Change Shsh, how times do change! A few months back I posted a few Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Global Warming 101: was Re: [biofuel] Re: Climate Change
This hotlink is for those who think that what I'm about to say is horse muffins. It's a simple compound interest table. Oddly enough, this has everything to do with biofuels. http://www.cashflowzone.com/compound_interest.htm Think about this for a minute. Assuming at worste that no one knows if global warming is a reality effected by human pursuit (a bit unrealistic, but none-the-less...), then the following analogy is perfectly accurate. I figure that over the past 24 years, I have paid about $7,200 in auto insurance. I haven't made but two claims but once during that period - a broken windscreen and an emergency tow. Funny, every time I get in a car, I don't really know for certain if I'll be driving it home intact or not. I have for 24 years. But I might not. Still, just in case, I pay the premium. And should I crumple someone else's quarter panel or run over their prize winning gerbil (or worse), I needn't worry considerably about being on a bread and water diet for the rest of my days or forfeiting my remaining lifespan paying every future farthing to someone who can barely spell the word lawsuit. Insurance - hedging one's bets - it's all the same thing: a little cost in and a lifetime of misery prevented. Acting as though global warming is a reality is no different than insurance - a little cost in and future lifetimes of misery prevented. One can start with conservative employment calculations that 2.5 jobs are created in efficiency industries compared to 1 in new power generation. I'll let the financial wizards in the group begin to extrapolate other percs, like how tax revenues, subsidy payment decreases, cleanup costs not expended, medical costs preserved and thousands of other savings all add up and are compounded anually throughout the remainder of history - not a half bad insurance policy, and pretty low premiums compared to other inevitabilities and possibilities. I've said it for a decade, energy efficiency and renewables will be the fuel for this country's next economy. The Pentium .com craze usurped it for a bit and George Dubya will slow its arrival date a bit more. But none-the-less, it's inevitable. Sadly, energy is an ever-in-demand consumable. As for those $7,200 in premiums I've paid? At 10% compounded annually, they've netted someone about $30,000 to date - minus one windscreen and a tow. Not a bad gamble on the insurance company's part, whose profits will continue to grow, no matter if I drop dead tomorrow and never pay in another schilling (about $324,000 in profit 24 years from now). Not that I believe it untrue for a minute, but from a capitalist's perspective, it doesn't matter if Global Warming is real or not. Investing as though it is will yield more profit and security than pretending it is not. Todd Swearingen Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Alcohol from waste paper?
In translating and collating what I have in my library about hydrolyzing wood cellulose to get fermentable sugars, it occurred to me that there is a much better source of cellulose than wood, and that using it would allow two birds to be killed with one stone. I refer of course to waste paper. Most waste paper is newsprint, which is short-fiber mechanical pulp made from ground wood. When repulped, it has to be mixed with a large proportion of new fiber to make decent paper because of the short fibers. It also contains a lot of lignin and other unstable compounds, so that paper made from it is unstable as well as weak. With mandatory recycling going into effect in many places, the price of recycled newsprint is going negative in some areas - that is, the pulp mills must be paid to take it. Other uses are being found for it - mulching, insulation - but basically it goes begging. Now imagine a paper-alcohol plant attached to a biodiesel plant. Not only can the ethanol be used for biodiesel production, but the residue still contains some lignin, which can give methanol on dry distillation. The unfermentable sugars give furfural and other compounds useful in organic synthesis. Everybody wins: - community recycling projects can start getting paid again (and the politicians who pushed through mandatory recycling without considering the consequences can start breathing again). - ethanol is produced without any impact on agricultural commodity prices. Best to all, Marc de Piolenc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Global Warming 101: was Re: [biofuel] Re: Climate Change
Global warming is an interesting term. The greenhouse effect, relative to the way man's activities are altering the composition of the atmosphere, surely must alter the way heat is transfered from near the surface of the earth to the upper atmosphere. If the ground warms significantly more in summer, then the mixing effects, as heat is transfered to and from polar regions, would likely be more violent. Not that the storms of the Southern Ocean aren't violent now. What is odd is that while we may expect more summer days above X degrees, we also expect more winter days below -X degrees. Here in spring the day temperature may reach 35 degrees celcius and still drop to 5 degrees by the next morning. Naturally you need to closely watch the opening of the glasshouse. My experience of the tropics is that this diurnal range doesn't occur and I gather that it would be unusual in temperate regions too. Our subtropical weather has been quite unpredictable for decades, particularly rainfall. Tropical weather, especially regards monsoons, is also fickle. Unpredictable cycles of drought and flood affect productivity and viability. Places the consider a week without rain a drought may be in for a shock. There may be mitigating effects, like will the thawing of continental ice be balanced by more atmospheric water and more rainfall on land. Melting sea ice has no effect on volume and the idea that oceans can be effectively heated enough from above to expand significantly is incredible. There seem to be more conflicting processes than I can deal with, but even so the question on global warming is not whether it will, or is happening, rather what changes will we observe. I feel that it is more subtle than a measurable change in average daily temperatures and at the same time more worrying.. Regards Harry. --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This hotlink is for those who think that what I'm about to say is horse muffins. It's a simple compound interest table. Oddly enough, this has everything to do with biofuels. http://www.cashflowzone.com/compound_interest.htm Think about this for a minute. Assuming at worste that no one knows if global warming is a reality effected by human pursuit (a bit unrealistic, but none-the-less...), then the following analogy is perfectly accurate. I figure that over the past 24 years, I have paid about $7,200 in auto insurance. I haven't made but two claims but once during that period - a broken windscreen and an emergency tow. Funny, every time I get in a car, I don't really know for certain if I'll be driving it home intact or not. I have for 24 years. But I might not. Still, just in case, I pay the premium. And should I crumple someone else's quarter panel or run over their prize winning gerbil (or worse), I needn't worry considerably about being on a bread and water diet for the rest of my days or forfeiting my remaining lifespan paying every future farthing to someone who can barely spell the word lawsuit. Insurance - hedging one's bets - it's all the same thing: a little cost in and a lifetime of misery prevented. Acting as though global warming is a reality is no different than insurance - a little cost in and future lifetimes of misery prevented. One can start with conservative employment calculations that 2.5 jobs are created in efficiency industries compared to 1 in new power generation. I'll let the financial wizards in the group begin to extrapolate other percs, like how tax revenues, subsidy payment decreases, cleanup costs not expended, medical costs preserved and thousands of other savings all add up and are compounded anually throughout the remainder of history - not a half bad insurance policy, and pretty low premiums compared to other inevitabilities and possibilities. I've said it for a decade, energy efficiency and renewables will be the fuel for this country's next economy. The Pentium .com craze usurped it for a bit and George Dubya will slow its arrival date a bit more. But none-the-less, it's inevitable. Sadly, energy is an ever-in-demand consumable. As for those $7,200 in premiums I've paid? At 10% compounded annually, they've netted someone about $30,000 to date - minus one windscreen and a tow. Not a bad gamble on the insurance company's part, whose profits will continue to grow, no matter if I drop dead tomorrow and never pay in another schilling (about $324,000 in profit 24 years from now). Not that I believe it untrue for a minute, but from a capitalist's perspective, it doesn't matter if Global Warming is real or not. Investing as though it is will yield more profit and security than pretending it is not. Todd Swearingen Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an
RE: [biofuel]gas to diesel conversion
There are usually so many differences in autos that even if a model of your vehicle was offered by the manufacturer with a diesel engine it is not worth attempting to convert. If there was no diesel model of your vehicle it will be even more time consuming and experimental in nature. Unfortunately most auto manufacturers don't make any provision for just plugging in another engine/transmission. The wiring harness will be engine specific as will be the transmission and associated linkage. Since diesel engines are generally heavier suspension changes will have to be made as well. Exhaust systems and drivetrains are also generally slightly different. It is likely that after a whole lot of effort and money invested in a conversion of your current auto to diesel it will not be nearly as energy efficient as one originally designed to run on diesel. Have you considered selling your gas powered auto and purchasing a good used diesel powered with the proceeds. If your time is worth anything it should more than make up for the difference in cost and if it doesn't the increased efficiency of a well engineered design should. You may wish to consider using your mechanical talents to convert such a Purchased diesel auto to SVO...as it may simplefy your process of fuelling it (as opposed to producing Biodiesel). Good luck, Dana Linscott __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
