[biofuels-biz] skin on biodiesel
If there are any drying oils present in the oil (such as linseed, fish or flax-oil), oxidation of the relevant unsaturated fatty acids can be expected to form a polymeric film on the biodiesel/air interface. It reforms every time the surface is broken until it is all reacted with the air. I wonder if that could be an alternative explanation? Michael Allen have noticed that raw biodiesel from tallow readily forms a skin as it cools, but the same BD after washing does not. Paul Gobert. ... yes drying oils sound like a possible explanation and Paul's contribution kind of kicks my suggestion out of touch! This could be confirmed by picking up a bit of the skin with a spatula a checking for solubility in water Paddy Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] Henry Ford, Charles Kettering and The Fuel of the Future
Ad hoc comment: One of the issues that tugs at me when I have seen recent debate (or quasi-science or shouting) over whether some of the biofuels are sustainable is that the fuel itself, if it is a relatively simple standardizeable not-horrifically-toxic chemical, is a somewhat *separate issue* from how it is derived. So, a debate over the sustainability of ethyl alcohol as a fuel of the future, whether it took place in the 30s or today, should include the concept that while it may well be presently sourced from much agriculture or semi-agriculture, I'd think we could somehow *manufacture* such a fuel, going forward, by new innovative methods as well. What is to prevent us, with all the scientists we have sitting around, from taking some solar-derived electricity and trying to make such relatively simple chemical compounds as ethyl alcohol from widely available chemicals such as water and CO2 and O2 and what-have-you. MM Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] skin on biodiesel
Paul, Is tallow biodiesel more likely to form soaps? I always assumed that skin is a sign of soaps, though I haven't made any fuel that skinned in a long time. This would be washed out. Mark At 09:39 PM 12/11/2002 +1000, you wrote: Michael, have noticed that raw biodiesel from tallow readily forms a skin as it cools, but the same BD after washing does not. Paul Gobert. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] skin on biodiesel
Lots of interesting chemistry coming out of this thread, but I do wonder whether the answer might not be in the physics rather than the chemistry of the process. Possibly the glycerol has not fully settled when the upper layers of ester are syphoned off. Then, when the lower level is exposed to cold air, the entrained glyc. solidifies into the reported skin. Why not try a longer (or warmer, with better insulation) settling period before racking off? David T. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] ZAP! Electric Vehicles
Kirk sent me this: http://www.zapworld.com/news/zapcar.htm ZAP! Electric Vehicles Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] Secrecy over car-rotting petrol additive (ethanol!!!)
It sounds like it would help the nascient Australian Ethanol industry if there was a 10 percent legal limit installed until such time as flex-fuel vehicles were made available which could more readily (under full warranty) process and use blends of 20 percent and more. At that point higher-than-10 percent mixes could be offered more clearly labeled. I think a person has a right to know, as accurately as possible, what he or she is buying and putting in their car. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] skin on biodiesel
- Original Message - From: girl mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] Paul, Is tallow biodiesel more likely to form soaps? I always assumed that skin is a sign of soaps, though I haven't made any fuel that skinned in a long time. This would be washed out. Mark Mark, can't answer that one, have noticed skinning on BD from both veg oil and animal fat, but have not compared levels. Did notice however that the skin will redissolve if stirred back in. Skin even washes ok. Remember some time back I was posting about the thickish white layer between BD and wash water on settling after mist washing. You asked what made me think it was not emulsion. Turns out it was emulsion, a sample of it is separating to BD, smaller intermediate layer and water after standing for about a month. Origionally sampled it with intent of getting it analysed, no need now. Regards, Paul Gobert. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Skin on biodiesel
The skin will be mono/diglycerides that have not been reacted. If you work it out stoichometrically (using molar quantities from a known fatty acid profile) your yield of products should be: (Esters) minus (glycerol) minus (catalyst) minus (molar excess of MeOH). So you if have less esters than a predited (molar) yield of esters with skin forming you are therefore running sub-optimally. Diglycerides should be soluble in the ester layer, monoglycerides solubilise in water. Dave rpg wrote: - Original Message - From: girl mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] Paul, Is tallow biodiesel more likely to form soaps? I always assumed that skin is a sign of soaps, though I haven't made any fuel that skinned in a long time. This would be washed out. Mark Mark, can't answer that one, have noticed skinning on BD from both veg oil and animal fat, but have not compared levels. Did notice however that the skin will redissolve if stirred back in. Skin even washes ok. Remember some time back I was posting about the thickish white layer between BD and wash water on settling after mist washing. You asked what made me think it was not emulsion. Turns out it was emulsion, a sample of it is separating to BD, smaller intermediate layer and water after standing for about a month. Origionally sampled it with intent of getting it analysed, no need now. Regards, Paul Gobert. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- David Preskett, BSc (Hons.), AIWSc [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reduce - reuse - recycle University of Wales BioComposites Centre Deiniol Road Bangor Gwynedd LL57 2UW http://www.bc.bangor.ac.uk Tel +44 (0)1248-370588 Fax: +44 (0)1248-370594 Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Hemp Fuel Conspitacy?
A couple of years ago I read a small article in a newspaper announcing then president Clinton's Executive Order 13134 related to increasing the use of bio-based products in specific measurable ways. This spurred a vision of the role hemp might play in such an economy, and my attendance at the 1999 Hemp Industries Association Conference in Canada. Following the conference, and inspired by what I had learned, I sequestered myself away for several months to research the issue in depth. (My kids are still mad at me over this). A good part of my results, and resulting plans, can be found at www.fuelandfiber.com - including a rather ragged paper I wrote that specifically addresses 'Hemp as biomass for energy'. In short there are a few issues that came to light: * Hempseed oil fetchs up to $30 gallon in the marketplace - as a food supplement. * Hempseed production is very low compared to MANY other oil crops. * Hemp itself is a Nitrogen USER, not fixer as so many claim. * Hemp as straight biomass only offers about 3-5 tons per acre. * Hemp bast fiber is far more valuable in textiles, composites or even paper than as a source of cellulose for ethanol. And of course, the granddaddy of them all, it is illegal to grow in the US. So the argument that hemp would be more economically sound than petroleum has been is hard to swallow. Petroleum has been free to suck out of the earth for a few decades now, which is much less bother than cultivating, planting, harvesting and processing a crop. Besides that, considering the volume of liquid fuels we use today, just imagine how much water would have been used to grow enough hemp to make this much! The Gulf of New Mexico 'Dead Zone' would probably encircle the earth by now! So, this argument, while sexy and all that, is rather hard to back up with facts. Nevertheless, I saw the POLITICAL IMPLICATIONS involved with the legal status as a sort of 'back door' into the 'system' that had the potential to affect the greatest measure of change needed to dislodge the existing power base, installing instead leadership favorable to bio-resource development. Of course this led to the Hemp US Flag project (www.hempusflag.com) as well as a number of other initiatives I have undertaken. One of these was to make biodiesel out of hempseed oil on the steps of the California State Capitol, assisted by a fine fellow named Ian Watson from the bay area and Todd Swearingen of Appal Energy. VoteHemp paid for the 15 gallons of hempseed oil, and we pulled it off on a sweltering August day. http://www.fuelandfiber.com/Archive/News/Legalize/BioDemo/biodemo.html Oops, I am rambling. I need to get back to work. In summary, from my perspective, hemp has a role to play in the energy scene more as a political issue than as a good feedstock for energy. The exception would be to employ the Fuel and Fiber Company Method - which is to fraction the material as a first step - retaining the high value bast fiber and only using the remaining 66% of biomass for energy and other co-products. Ok, a word about co-products. As has been correctly pointed out here, the majority of profits from a barrel of oil come from the co-products. The fuel itself is actually quite low value, comparatively. The same principal will apply to the Biorefinery envisioned. We will produce ethanol more as a public benefit than as a profitable venture. The profits will be found in the co-products and value adding done during processing. Lastly, I wanted to invite you to register and login to the all new FaFCo portal, www.fuelandfiber.com - I have set up a whole set of tools for you to use. Perhaps there is something useful there? Tim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] Henry Ford, Charles Kettering and The Fuel of the Future
Dear MM, I think that you are right in that future innovative methods and solution must be pursued. It is however a little bit scaring if you look at it. What we mostly discuss for used are Biofuel, Windmills, Passive solar etc., all are new technologies that goes more than 100 years back. Other new technologies like fuel cells etc. goes 50 to 80 years back. Then we find that corporate and political interests actually turned us away from going on more sustainable and cleaner routes 60 to 100 years ago. I sincerely hope that we can correct all this stupidity and go forward with better ways of doing things. I have my doubts, if I look at the present leaders. Hakan At 03:27 PM 12/11/2002 -0800, you wrote: Ad hoc comment: One of the issues that tugs at me when I have seen recent debate (or quasi-science or shouting) over whether some of the biofuels are sustainable is that the fuel itself, if it is a relatively simple standardizeable not-horrifically-toxic chemical, is a somewhat *separate issue* from how it is derived. So, a debate over the sustainability of ethyl alcohol as a fuel of the future, whether it took place in the 30s or today, should include the concept that while it may well be presently sourced from much agriculture or semi-agriculture, I'd think we could somehow *manufacture* such a fuel, going forward, by new innovative methods as well. What is to prevent us, with all the scientists we have sitting around, from taking some solar-derived electricity and trying to make such relatively simple chemical compounds as ethyl alcohol from widely available chemicals such as water and CO2 and O2 and what-have-you. MM Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Skin on biodiesel
If it is mono and doglycerides you should be able to take some of the skin and reprocess it with more methoxide and produce esters. If it is soap you should not be able to do this. If it is tallow esters this test shouldn't tell you much. Mark At 03:01 PM 12/12/2002 +, you wrote: The skin will be mono/diglycerides that have not been reacted. If you work it out stoichometrically (using molar quantities from a known fatty acid profile) your yield of products should be: (Esters) minus (glycerol) minus (catalyst) minus (molar excess of MeOH). So you if have less esters than a predited (molar) yield of esters with skin forming you are therefore running sub-optimally. Diglycerides should be soluble in the ester layer, monoglycerides solubilise in water. Dave rpg wrote: - Original Message - From: girl mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] Paul, Is tallow biodiesel more likely to form soaps? I always assumed that skin is a sign of soaps, though I haven't made any fuel that skinned in a long time. This would be washed out. Mark Mark, can't answer that one, have noticed skinning on BD from both veg oil and animal fat, but have not compared levels. Did notice however that the skin will redissolve if stirred back in. Skin even washes ok. Remember some time back I was posting about the thickish white layer between BD and wash water on settling after mist washing. You asked what made me think it was not emulsion. Turns out it was emulsion, a sample of it is separating to BD, smaller intermediate layer and water after standing for about a month. Origionally sampled it with intent of getting it analysed, no need now. Regards, Paul Gobert. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- David Preskett, BSc (Hons.), AIWSc [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reduce - reuse - recycle University of Wales BioComposites Centre Deiniol Road Bangor Gwynedd LL57 2UW http://www.bc.bangor.ac.uk Tel +44 (0)1248-370588 Fax: +44 (0)1248-370594 Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] Film on the ethanol issue in Australia
On the secrecy article, I was just thinking the same thing. I'm not even sure others here are of like mind with me, that this one Australian who is pushing unlabeled over-10% mixtures is possibly poisoning the well for all nascient Australian biofuel efforts, but that's my tentative opinion and that we've already failed to do enough because Australia is *not* an insignificant country in nascient alternative energy efforts. I bet that, privately, it doesn't bother larger Petroleum interests in Australia that this jerk is doing damage to the long-term credibility of efforts to sell ethanol in Australia. I'd like others' opinions, if possible. MM I think we should help Mark if we can. Thank you for your response. My screenplay is somewhat controversial as it mirrors what is happening in the halls of power. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] Henry Ford, Charles Kettering and The Fuel of the Future
On Wed, 11 Dec 2002 16:51:21 -0800 (PST), you wrote: There is way too much debate on whether on not to use these alternate fuels because of sustainability. Clearly, when American farmers are paid to not grow crops the issue seems to be resolved! Too much debate and not enough action! I have been contemplating biodiesel in an older Benz but if I wait for the testing, and the debates and wait for the meeting of the minds, I will be waiting a long time. Time to brew up some fat in the garage! Well, really, I couldn't agree with you more, from a personal get it done perspective. The debate over sustainability is important perhaps not directly to your own project but to whether the powers-that-be vote to get over the umpteen different hurdles that are thrown in the way of alt-fuel efforts by the petrol industry, and to get the hell out of the way of legitimate competition in the fuel industry and waste recycling industry. In my estimation, of those hurdles, one of the toughest is in getting an accurate read on sustainability, alongside a few others such as backward compatability with legacy machinery, breaking through the worldwide fuel distribution in-place legally-protected monopolies or near-monopolies, new environmental issues that may come up with relatively new technologies, and a few others I guess. If petrol were sustainable and somewhat more environmentally friendly to drill, refine and use, we probably wouldn't care nearly as much about finding alternatives. It's pretty cheap at present, energy dense and useful in myriad ways. Lack of U.S. domestic availability also contributes to the search for alternatives. The payment of U.S. farmers not to grow crops doesn't settle the issue for me because if you're talking about not only feeding all U.S. citizens but also replacing most U.S. fuel needs with biofuels then the amounts needed are staggering... not at all just what is needed for one side (food). What I like to focus on is that we have waste (such as grease from homes and restauraunts) which is presently not optimally used. This, to me, is a clue in economics that something is a bit amiss. Theoretically, an enterprising person, in a competitive economy (which ours is often alleged to be) would be able to spot that waste and make use of it and make money from it, or at least make a go of it. MM Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] Petroleum's Role in Hemp Prohibition
I've heard it said that part of what makes U.S. paper currency unique is that hemp is used in the paper, but I'm not sure if this is true. Maybe the whole matter, the whole giant friggin hypocrisy of it all, makes me so upset that I decided to focus on less upsetting things like the needless throwing away of American Economy and Policy Independence to those who have zero interest in a sustainable future for any decent values, economies, societies, or whatever, particular to those whose focus is to prevent progress in energy technologies. I can understand that. All those people in jail for no good reason, being brutalized and criminalized, it's outrageous. It's also completely out of step - the other industrialized countries are moving in exactly the opposite direction. The industrial hemp prohibition is also out of step, and will see the US being left behind. Insane, really. One of the things I did with the energy issues is, corrolary to my treatment of it, examine how we criticize our Presidents, leaders, politicians, policy-makers. I explained that I thought there were better things to criticize about President Clinton than his sex life and alleged criminal behaviour, and that I thought it was a tragic (and indeed destructive) waste of the country's time to spend our valuable time during his administration playing get the President. I explained that if there were really folks who wanted to criticize his policies and ideas and whatever, that there were many other areas that much more cogent and effective criticism could be brought to bear, such as his National Energy Policies, or lack thereof. This was a compilation of some of my stuff, which had been written out a few times in months prior to March 2000: http://www.herecomesmongo.com/ae/03092000.html I failed to make sufficiently clear a few other related points. I think we all have a responsibility to offer cogent and intelligent criticism of our leaders if we are to offer criticism at all. Our leaders (who are also, in effect, our hired employees, where they are sort of CEOs and corporate officers and we are their board and their shareholders and customers) suffer when we fail to offer them the best possible criticisms of the jobs they are doing, because they can really improve their performance if the get top-notch criticism that really gets to the point and hits home. It's hard to improve yourself when the criticisms that you're getting are ankle-biting nonsense unworthy of consideration or time. It's easy to criticize the boss or the CEO when you're a peon, but how do you bring *valuable* criticism to everone's time? Effective and good criticism is not only well-intended and high-reaching, but I think it should incorporate some policy of actively trying to decide for oneself and define What is a good job rather than waiting, reacting to individuals' actions and then criticizing those actions. It is asking yourself: Ok, smartypants, you think you're so smart, what would *you* do if you were thus-and-such office-holder? It is, in the case of criticism of Presidents, understanding that a primary potentiality and power of the office is in simply having the Podium for four whole years, having the opportunity to exercise one's place at the Bullypulpit to bring attention to whatever issues one and one's team think are in need of attention. Failure to bring attention to other issues becomes, at that point, a sort of choice. If a critic defines an issue as important, and if a President fails to *discuss* an issue in four years of Office, then a very effective criticism can be brought to bear at that point, on the issue of failure to do or say a needed thing, rather than commission of some allegedly bad or illegal of half-baked act. An example of such a criticism of a failure-to-discuss, not a great example, but an example, would be that in the Debates of 92 or so, between nominee Clinton and President Bush Sr., (Perot may have been on stage also), President Bush Sr. said something about the Aids crisis, and it was a nice little statement that I think expressed desire to do something about a terrible problem, although it was in the context of running for office and not of exercising the already-gained powers, and President Clinton responded something like: That's a very nice sentiment, but it's too bad that in four years of office that's the most you've ever said on the issue and pretty much the first time you've ever bothered to voice such ideas. How right he was, and that President had previously served eight years in another administration which was also woefully silent compared to what it should have voiced. It was one of the few times in my life I somewhat felt like standing up and cheering in listening to public discourse. Mr. Clinton did go on to try to bring more attention to the AIDS crisis as President, I guess. He did not unfortunately go on to do say or do enough to discuss a wide variety of problems, though.
[biofuels-biz] seeking proposals -- info
Title: Biodiesel: Development of Specific Opportunities Description: Seeking proposals to facilitate the development, demonstration, and commercialization of biodiesel manufacturing plants. Government Agency: New York State Energy Research and Development Authority Schedule: Proposals due January 8, 2003 URL: www.nyserda.org With best wishes, Len Sigma Energy Engineering, Inc. Renewable Energy, Process Engineering Serving Agriculture, Industry Commerce through Symbiotic Recycling tm E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Petroleum's Role in Hemp Prohibition
Also... Napoleon's invasion of Russa was an attempt to cut off America's hemp supply, thus crippling its' navy. At 11:20 AM 12/11/02 -0800, you wrote: Hemp is the term used for the male and marijuana is the term used to describe the female cannabis plant. There are many subspecies but, all females are psychoactive and all males are not. Did you know that hemp was directly responsible for the Roman Empire's success in conquering the world. Armor, clothing, shoes, tack for horses, cooking oil, etc. were all made from hemp. kris --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The hemp plant has no psychoactive properties. Cultivating hemp can help replenish spent soil. Hemp can grow almost anywhere, and requires far less pesticides than many other cash crops, such as cotton. Hemp can be used for fuel, fiber, food, medicine, and industry. Hemp seed is highly nutritious. Hemp fiber is durable and strong. Extractums made from hemp were a valued medicine for thousands of years, but prohibition in the 1930s ended all of that. Why was this valuable renewable resource prohibited? Evidence suggests a special-interest group that included the DuPont petrochemical company, Secretary of the Treasury Andrew Mellon (Dupont's major financial backer), and the newspaper man William Randolph Hearst mounted a yellow journalism campaign against hemp. Hearst deliberately confused psychoactive marijuana with industrial hemp, one of humankind's oldest and most useful resources. DuPont and Hearst were heavily invested in timber and petroleum resources, and saw hemp as a threat to their empires. Petroleum companies also knew that petroleum emits noxious, toxic byproducts when incompletely burned, as in an auto engine. In 1937 DuPont, Mellen and Hearst were able to push a marijuana prohibition bill through Congress in less than three months, which destroyed the domestic hemp industry. From : Hemp Powered Car Tours US, Canada http://www.freezerbox.com/archive/2000/12/hemp/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/02 Is My Medicine Legal Yet? http://florida.usmjparty.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] WARNING! - enemy action by Yahoo
I doubt that is necessary unless you are without virus Protection. Like I tell my users, in this day an age there is not much chance you will keep from getting a virus on your computer without virus protection. The only way to significantly decrease your chances of getting a virus without using virus protection, are to disable nearly all of your computers capabilities, i.e. Windows(LOL), never install any thirdparty programs, never download anything off the internet, and make sure that all supposed text files from message groups really are text files, never download any attachements, dont be part of any network. etc.. As you can see it is much simpler to use Nortons Antivirus or something similar that scans your email coming in and going out. Keep it updated... Nortons and probably most of the others by now will update themselves every wednesday over the internet thus keeping themselves updated. Bryan Fullerton White Knight Gifts www.youcandobusiness.com - Original Message - From: Doug Foskey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 4:34 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] WARNING! - enemy action by Yahoo Too much info If you wish to stop disseminating virii, accept only text to the list, (ie make all turn off HTML no attachments) To my knowledge there can't be a virus hidden in plain text. Any HTML posts just get rejected... (This only really affects AOL users, they apparently can't turn off HTML, but other lists I am on just get the uploads via hotmail (ie the user sets up a hotmail acct), so no probs. regards Doug Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Petroleum's Role in Hemp Prohibition
Hi MM On Wed, 11 Dec 2002 02:16:42 +0900, you wrote: This isn't very authoritative - not much detail, no references to support it. Anyone know any more about this? Best Keith Short answer: I don't know any more about it, but do not dismiss it entirely out of hand, as a partial explanation. I doubt that it is the only reason Hemp is so irrationally criminalized in the U.S. Some very interesting papers around of the testimony that preceded the prohibition, mainly by the guy who'd run the alcohol prohibition program. Needed a new empire, I guess. His evidence is total BS. Sheer bureaucratic momentum explains a lot of things that look like conspiracies - you don't make a career out of solving problems, but you do make one out of maintaining them. But the petroleum and chemical interests were right in there too, in this case. Long Answer: Regardless of any given theory for the underlying real reasons Hemp is excluded from legalized commerce in the states, it's something that irks me. Yes, it's mindless. At best. When I was deciding as to which issues to really settle in on and research and focus on, in a narrower way, for things that would make for good discussion and activism (i.e., my hacking), opposing the Drug War was on my short list, but I ultimately chose some other areas. I think that U.S. exportation of our War On Drugs (i.e., our War on U.S. Citizens, Entrepeneurs and Citizens of other countries) is one of the most powerful examples anyone could name of horrific unjust slimy US Policy, not only domestic policy but Foreign as well. We have exported Hate, Destruction, Death, Black Marketeering, non-free markets (in any real sense) and anti-entrepeneurialism, while at the same time sending our dollars abroad to buy the drugs we preach must be stamped out. It is sickening to me that we have done this, helped bring Caponeism for example to Columbia and Baja California, and I can only console myself that it is not the only thing the U.S. has done, that my country has some good that it has done and tried to do, and that while the Drug War is one of the great-untalked-abouts and great-injustices, it is not the sole defining characteristic of my country. At least, that is my opinion. I am in a bit of a hurry today and hope that I am not putting things overly strongly. I agree, many agree - it would be very difficult to put it too strongly. The prevention of production and trade of Hemp is only perhaps the most obviously stupid thing here, because even if one things that bad drugs should be made illegal, the benefits of Hemp are so obvious, and the fact that it generally is not the same strain (I guess is more or less the right way to put it) as the plant which is grown for its narcotic effect, that there's sort of this dichotomy where everyone sort of agrees that even if we keep the drug war in place, the war on Hemp is in the eyes of some, less justifiable. They're two different things, you can't get off on industrial hemp. Not that I've tried, but that seems to be clearcut - it has no drug properties. I've heard it said that part of what makes U.S. paper currency unique is that hemp is used in the paper, but I'm not sure if this is true. Maybe the whole matter, the whole giant friggin hypocrisy of it all, makes me so upset that I decided to focus on less upsetting things like the needless throwing away of American Economy and Policy Independence to those who have zero interest in a sustainable future for any decent values, economies, societies, or whatever, particular to those whose focus is to prevent progress in energy technologies. I can understand that. All those people in jail for no good reason, being brutalized and criminalized, it's outrageous. It's also completely out of step - the other industrialized countries are moving in exactly the opposite direction. The industrial hemp prohibition is also out of step, and will see the US being left behind. Insane, really. DrugReporter News from the front lines of the drug war. http://alternet.org/issues/index.html?IssueAreaID=17 For the past 15 years, lawmakers have pursued tough-on-drugs policies in an effort to create a drug free America, plowing billions of dollars into prosecuting and imprisoning drug offenders. Is it working? Not according to many drug policy observers of each political stripe. Indeed, some claim the war on drugs has been a complete -- and extremely costly -- failure. They are part of a growing movement for reform that believes drug use can never be eradicated and advocates reducing the harm associated with abusing drugs rather than imprisoning the people who use them. Meanwhile, even after voters in a dozen states have cast their ballots in favor of reform, the steady accumulation of intrusive, drug-related legislation at the local and federal levels is having a chilling effect on our civil rights. The arm of the law now extends not only across our national borders, but into our
Re: [biofuel] Henry Ford, Charles Kettering and The Fuel of the Future
Ad hoc comment: One of the issues that tugs at me when I have seen recent debate (or quasi-science or shouting) over whether some of the biofuels are sustainable is that the fuel itself, if it is a relatively simple standardizeable not-horrifically-toxic chemical, is a somewhat *separate issue* from how it is derived. So, a debate over the sustainability of ethyl alcohol as a fuel of the future, whether it took place in the 30s or today, should include the concept that while it may well be presently sourced from much agriculture or semi-agriculture, I'd think we could somehow *manufacture* such a fuel, going forward, by new innovative methods as well. What is to prevent us, with all the scientists we have sitting around, from taking some solar-derived electricity and trying to make such relatively simple chemical compounds as ethyl alcohol from widely available chemicals such as water and CO2 and O2 and what-have-you. MM Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Diesel madness and steam slander
Diesel originally thought that the diesel engine, (readily adaptable in size and utilizing locally available fuels) would enable independent craftsmen and artisans to endure the powered competition of large industries that then virtually monopolized the predominant power source-the oversized, expensive, fuel-wasting steam engine. Whoa! In the first place, the Age of Steam was an era of decentralized power production, with hundreds of manufacturers serving thousands of small users. How many diesel producers are there in the world today? Pick up a technical journal from the Teens or Twenties of the 20th century and look at the ads. Of course most of those steam plants were inefficient - they were small, with low-pressure boilers and none of the expensive auxiliary equipment that only a large scale plant could afford. That was one great benefit of Diesel's invention - the ability to combine small size with (relatively) high thermal efficiency. I might note, however, that if small steam plants had continued to evolve they would have got a whole lot better. Just the simple transition from natural circulation boilers with drums to monotube or Lamont boilers would have allowed an easy increase in pressures from about 100 to about 1200 psi, which would have made a huge difference in economy. And those plants could have burned anything small enough to fit into the firebox! Such plants, incidentally, are built today by a small coterie of amateur designer/builders, and work quite nicely with a much wider fuel tolerance than any diesel will ever have. Diesel spent two more years at improvements and on the last day of 1896 demonstrated another model with the spectacular, if theoretical, mechanical efficiency of 75.6 percent, in contrast to the then-prevailing efficiency of the steam engine of 10 percent or less. You're comparing apples to oranges - the MECHANICAL efficiency of Diesel's engine (which is a measure of how free the engine is of MECHANICAL losses due to friction and lost work) vs. the net THERMAL efficiency of the worst of the low-pressure steam plants (which takes ALL losses into account). No diesel has ever achieved more than about 40% brake net THERMAL efficiency - the usual figure is low thirties. Better than low pressure steam, certainly, but not to the extent that your rather confusing and deceptive comparison would suggest. And the gap between diesels and a modern steam plant - even a small one - would be a good deal lower. Marc de Piolenc Iligan City, Philippines Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Henry Ford, Charles Kettering and The Fuel of the Future
There is way too much debate on whether on not to use these alternate fuels because of sustainability. Clearly, when American farmers are paid to not grow crops the issue seems to be resolved! Too much debate and not enough action! I have been contemplating biodiesel in an older Benz but if I wait for the testing, and the debates and wait for the meeting of the minds, I will be waiting a long time. Time to brew up some fat in the garage! __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting
You cannot ski in minus 40 degree Celsius, if you do not cover all parts of your skin. I sincerely suggest that you stay inside and do not take the risk of severe skin damages. If you get such extremely low temperatures, mix you diesel with 10 to 20% kerosene, but only for that occasion. In temperatures above minus 25 degree Celsius, you will normally have no problems. At minus 40 degree Celsius you will probably have some sort of problems with all automobiles, independent of type of fuel. Hakan At 10:49 AM 12/11/2002 -0500, you wrote: I've actually just bought my first diesel car, and this is one of my main concerns (as I said, I don't really know anything!) - If I go skiing and can't plug my car in, for the day or sometimes even for a few days, do you have tips on starting it when I want to get home? Is this something I need to worry about? Sounds like you have lots of experience, and I really don't know what to expect going into my first winter with a diesel. When I get that far, I'm also planning to mix biodiesel with petro diesel to reduce cold weather starting problems. Is that a good solution? While it may not be a real problem at all, It may be a percieved problem with diesel - for people like me who don't know much about it but what they've heard. The effect can be the same. Mike Hakan Falk wrote: I had diesel cars the last 26 years as private vehicle, both in Sweden and after I moved to middle and southern Europe. In Sweden it was often minus 25 Celsius in the winter and minus 15 Celsius in Central Europe. The only time I had serious problem was one time when I was skiing in Sweden and it was minus 40 Celsius for a couple of days. Had to heat it up and then put 20% Kerosene in the tank. Could not ski anyway, since the risk for bad frostbites was too big. Hakan PS. during the same period I had gasoline company cars. At 10:34 AM 12/10/2002 -0500, you wrote: I don't really know what I'm talking about, but from a Canadian perspective I think diesel is widely considered a dirty fuel (and it sounds like the truth of this is what you're researching), but also it's hard to start when it's minus 20 degrees, which is a real, if surmountable, problem in this climate - this second point would also apply to some areas in the US. Mike Hello All, I'm looking for a concise description of the differences between European (global if you know) and US diesel fuel (BTU, Sulphur content, refinement processes, etc), exhaust systems (Catalytic converters, emission controls, etc), as well as any other significant combustion and/or emissions differences. I'm trying to put together a complete but digestible description of global diesel usage as well as the reasons for it's notable lack of presence in the US. Thanks, Thom Hello Thom Good for you. Can't help much, but these might be useful: Fuel Lubricity Reviewed, Paul Lacey, Southwest Research Institute, Steve Howell, MARC-IV Consulting, Inc., SAE paper number 982567, International Fall Fuels and Lubricants Meeting and Exposition, October 19-22, 1998, San Francisco, California. Lubricity Benefits http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/Lubricity.PDF Best Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] kologisch ohne kosteuer
something of interest http://www.rerorust.de/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Stop the War!
http://www.oshkoshbygosh.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Petroleum's Role in Hemp Prohibition
Hemp is the term used for the male and marijuana is the term used to describe the female cannabis plant. There are many subspecies but, all females are psychoactive and all males are not. Did you know that hemp was directly responsible for the Roman Empire's success in conquering the world. Armor, clothing, shoes, tack for horses, cooking oil, etc. were all made from hemp. kris I don't think this is right Kris. First, male plants are psychoactive, if less so. Second, industrial hemp is a different variety with very low THC content. Although often confused with marijuana, hemp is a distinct variety within the species: over the years, plant breeders have cultivated hemp varieties with increased stem fibre content and very low levels of delta 9-tetrahydro-cannabinol (THC), the psychoactive ingredient of its controversial cousin. http://www.guardianunlimited.co.uk/science/story/0,3605,488409,00.html Guardian Unlimited | The Guardian | Hemp hits its stride Considerable variation exists within hemp germplasm for levels of the psychoactive drug THC (De Meijer et al., 1992a). Although fiber hemp varieties generally contain much less THC than drug-types of Cannabis, a number of fiber hemp varieties have been developed that contain very low levels (less than 0.3%) of THC. Plants with less than 0.3% THC have been accepted by the EC as having no psychoactive properties, and approved varieties may be grown under the EC subsidy program. A list of low-THC varieties approved for use in the EC are included in the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) list of cultivars (Anon., 1996). A new French cultivar has recently been developed which reportedly contains no THC (De Meijer, 1995). http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/EdMat/SB681/whole2.html Feasibility of Industrial Hemp Production in the United States Pacific Northwest For comparison, cannabis from Thailand has a THC content of 14%. Some of the drug strains developed in Holland have twice that. Less than 0.3% just won't work. They're all called hemp, Cannabis sativa (a lot of quite different plants are also called hemp). Marijuana is the Mexican name, which few people in America knew at the time of Prohibition. The name marijuana was used in all the scare stories. Very few people realized that marijuana and hemp came from the same plant species; thus, virtually nobody knew that Marijuana Prohibition would destroy the hemp industry. Anyway campaigning in the US for industrial hemp legalization is not the same as campaigning for marijuana legalization and against the drug laws, separate issues, though they're not always kept separate, even by the campaigners. Best Keith --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The hemp plant has no psychoactive properties. Cultivating hemp can help replenish spent soil. Hemp can grow almost anywhere, and requires far less pesticides than many other cash crops, such as cotton. Hemp can be used for fuel, fiber, food, medicine, and industry. Hemp seed is highly nutritious. Hemp fiber is durable and strong. Extractums made from hemp were a valued medicine for thousands of years, but prohibition in the 1930s ended all of that. Why was this valuable renewable resource prohibited? Evidence suggests a special-interest group that included the DuPont petrochemical company, Secretary of the Treasury Andrew Mellon (Dupont's major financial backer), and the newspaper man William Randolph Hearst mounted a yellow journalism campaign against hemp. Hearst deliberately confused psychoactive marijuana with industrial hemp, one of humankind's oldest and most useful resources. DuPont and Hearst were heavily invested in timber and petroleum resources, and saw hemp as a threat to their empires. Petroleum companies also knew that petroleum emits noxious, toxic byproducts when incompletely burned, as in an auto engine. In 1937 DuPont, Mellen and Hearst were able to push a marijuana prohibition bill through Congress in less than three months, which destroyed the domestic hemp industry. From : Hemp Powered Car Tours US, Canada http://www.freezerbox.com/archive/2000/12/hemp/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting
Why not just use fuel line heaters, and tank heaters if necessary? (By the way, there's a lot of dross in this thread - the original message on diesel fuel isn't relevant to cold weather starting, it should have been snipped, there were four sets of footers at the bottom, should also have been snipped - 112 lines of excess baggage x 1150 users = 128,800 wasted lines. Have a care! - Thanks. ) Keith Were do you live? It used to be in Land Crusiers ( in Canada ) had duel heavy duty batteries for starting. Here in Colorado Springs, my father was told by his mechanic to add a little gasoline to the tank before pumping the diesel. I think that it about 1 or 2 qts of gasoline to a tank of diesel to thin it out a fraction. He used this method for 3-5 years before his VW was totaled. I have heard of a method, that uses touline, to make biodiesel easier to start in winter, but it is only something I have heard, and not yet used my self ( I don't own a diesel yet ). This or the gasoline method might work for SVO or WVO as well, I don't know. Greg H. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Michael Henry [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 08:49 Subject: [biofuel] cold weather starting I've actually just bought my first diesel car, and this is one of my main concerns (as I said, I don't really know anything!) - If I go skiing and can't plug my car in, for the day or sometimes even for a few days, do you have tips on starting it when I want to get home? Is this something I need to worry about? Sounds like you have lots of experience, and I really don't know what to expect going into my first winter with a diesel. When I get that far, I'm also planning to mix biodiesel with petro diesel to reduce cold weather starting problems. Is that a good solution? While it may not be a real problem at all, It may be a percieved problem with diesel - for people like me who don't know much about it but what they've heard. The effect can be the same. Mike Hakan Falk wrote: I had diesel cars the last 26 years as private vehicle, both in Sweden and after I moved to middle and southern Europe. In Sweden it was often minus 25 Celsius in the winter and minus 15 Celsius in Central Europe. The only time I had serious problem was one time when I was skiing in Sweden and it was minus 40 Celsius for a couple of days. Had to heat it up and then put 20% Kerosene in the tank. Could not ski anyway, since the risk for bad frostbites was too big. Hakan PS. during the same period I had gasoline company cars. At 10:34 AM 12/10/2002 -0500, you wrote: I don't really know what I'm talking about, but from a Canadian perspective I think diesel is widely considered a dirty fuel (and it sounds like the truth of this is what you're researching), but also it's hard to start when it's minus 20 degrees, which is a real, if surmountable, problem in this climate - this second point would also apply to some areas in the US. Mike Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] The big picture
Hi MM There you go - a hacker in sheeple's clothing, LOL! You're certainly no slave, MM. I wonder if the real slaves aren't the people at the top of the ladder, the ones who think they're in control - such as Kenneth Lay, hopeless failures at life, what a waste. thx, and an interesting take on Lay. ... et al. Are these people really to be considered successful human beings? It seems to me they'll just have to come back and try again. Perhaps as a cockroach. My friend Prema, a Tibetan Buddhist nun, once remarked rather conversationally: It's not often a person gets the chance to live a human life, it's quite rare, one shouldn't waste such an opportunity. :-) Hack: http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/hack.html Hacker: http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/hacker.html I see a problem here that I did not see before. The term cracker, which is what hackers are recommending we use when we wish to connote hacker gone to the dark side or some such, has some slight built-in vernacular ambiguities. Is one talking about a safe cracker? Is one trying to connote drug use? (Crack cocaine). Is there some sort of racist ambiguity? (I'm not sure why but I seem to recall cracker being some sort of racial epithet from one of the races to another). White trash. Maybe there could be a new term for a malicious hacker. Or maybe just get better at using cracker. Yeah, that sounds ok now that I think it through a little. We'll see. Should be, if it gets used enough. The wonderful Jargon Lexicon gets into the background as usual - only back to Shakespeare this time, LOL! Looks like what King John called a cracker one would call an AH these days. cracker n. One who breaks security on a system. Coined ca. 1985 by hackers in defense against journalistic misuse of hacker (q.v., sense 8). An earlier attempt to establish `worm' in this sense around 1981-82 on Usenet was largely a failure. Use of both these neologisms reflects a strong revulsion against the theft and vandalism perpetrated by cracking rings. The neologism cracker in this sense may have been influenced not so much by the term safe-cracker as by the non-jargon term cracker, which in Middle English meant an obnoxious person (e.g., What cracker is this same that deafs our ears / With this abundance of superfluous breath? - Shakespeare's King John, Act II, Scene I) and in modern colloquial American English survives as a barely gentler synonym for white trash. While it is expected that any real hacker will have done some playful cracking and knows many of the basic techniques, anyone past larval stage is expected to have outgrown the desire to do so except for immediate, benign, practical reasons (for example, if it's necessary to get around some security in order to get some work done). Thus, there is far less overlap between hackerdom and crackerdom than the mundane reader misled by sensationalistic journalism might expect. Crackers tend to gather in small, tight-knit, very secretive groups that have little overlap with the huge, open poly-culture this lexicon describes; though crackers often like to describe themselves as hackers, most true hackers consider them a separate and lower form of life. Ethical considerations aside, hackers figure that anyone who can't imagine a more interesting way to play with their computers than breaking into someone else's has to be pretty losing. Some other reasons crackers are looked down on are discussed in the entries on cracking and phreaking. See also samurai, dark-side hacker, and hacker ethic. For a portrait of the typical teenage cracker, see warez d00dz That's right, blame it all on the press. :-) Hacking's similar to fettling - all the old factories used to have a fettler, when the machines broke he'd come and do a quick-fix so they'd work and production could continue until the engineers could get around to doing a proper repair job. A good fettler was highly skilled and very ingenious. I had some tailoring done this week, and it just reminded me of how certain occupations are terribly useful and may well be with us even a million years from now. One thing is it reminded me that even on Star Trek they have Tailors 300 years into the future (though no barbers prominently featured that I saw anyway). I knew some people in Hong Kong who'd fled the Communist victory in 1949 with literally nothing. (Unlike the poor Shanghai industrialists who arrived destitute and penniless with nothing but a few container-loads of gold...) Two come to mind. One, the editor of a Chinese newspaper when I knew him, did bring something, a set of Chinese chessmen and a board - not bulky, Chinese chess is different, the pieces are more like checkers pieces, round, flat disks, and the board is a piece of printed paper, it all easily fits in a pocket. He made a good living playing chess to all comers in the parks, with onlookers taking bets and him getting
[biofuel] ZAP! Electric Vehicles
Kirk sent me this: http://www.zapworld.com/news/zapcar.htm ZAP! Electric Vehicles Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Secrecy over car-rotting petrol additive (ethanol!!!)
It sounds like it would help the nascient Australian Ethanol industry if there was a 10 percent legal limit installed until such time as flex-fuel vehicles were made available which could more readily (under full warranty) process and use blends of 20 percent and more. At that point higher-than-10 percent mixes could be offered more clearly labeled. I think a person has a right to know, as accurately as possible, what he or she is buying and putting in their car. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] kologisch ohne kosteuer
something of interest http://www.rerorust.de/ Quite a lot of scepticism about him. Do these look that good to you? Cocked or gummed parts? My engine got checked. http://www.rerorust.de/rapsoel/check2_uk.htm Aargh! His links jump... Hit the English flag on the home page, then hit Cocked or gummed parts? My engine got checked. and look at the photographs. Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] The big picture
see inserted comments murdoch wrote: I see a problem here that I did not see before. The term cracker, which is what hackers are recommending we use when we wish to connote hacker gone to the dark side or some such, has some slight built-in vernacular ambiguities. TLC had a program on hackers, last night. They called them white hats and black hats, or criminals and angels. They had Captain Zap on the show, he loves getting paid to hack, nowadays. I had some tailoring done this week, and it just reminded me of how certain occupations are terribly useful and may well be with us even a million years from now. One thing is it reminded me that even on Star Trek they have Tailors 300 years into the future (though no barbers prominently featured that I saw anyway). You missed Mr. Mott? A blue skinned alien who loves to explain how the Enterprise should be run. Riker says: 'well yeah, he has a lot to say, but he can really cut hair.' Bright Blessings, Kim Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting
Actually, when I lived in Canada, we did ski in -40. It was great because there were so few people on the hill. I loved it. BTW, -40 is both C F, it is the point where they meet. I had a 1/4 ton truck that was diesel, we used to just leave it run when it got that cold. Bright Blessings, Kim Hakan Falk wrote: You cannot ski in minus 40 degree Celsius, if you do not cover all parts of your skin. I sincerely suggest that you stay inside and do not take the risk of severe skin damages. If you get such extremely low temperatures, mix you diesel with 10 to 20% kerosene, but only for that occasion. In temperatures above minus 25 degree Celsius, you will normally have no problems. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Petroleum's Role in Hemp Prohibition
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Kris Book [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hemp is the term used for the male and marijuana is the term used to describe the female cannabis plant. There are many subspecies but, all females are psychoactive and all males are not. Kris, where the heck did you get this nonsense from? Psychoactivity has absolutely nothing to do with sex. Pot growers kill the male plants because they don't want them to pollenate the females, and because the males themselves don't produce any of the highly potent flowers or bud. The leaves of the male plant will get you just as high as the leaves of the female plant. And neither the leaves nor the flowers of either male or female hemp plants will do anything for you no matter how much you smoke of it. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Petroleum's Role in Hemp Prohibition
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Kris Book [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hemp is the term used for the male and marijuana is the term used to describe the female cannabis plant. There are many subspecies but, all females are psychoactive and all males are not. Kris, this is total nonsense -- where ever did you get such a silly idea? The leaves of the male pot plants will stone you just as much as the leaves of the females. Growers usually kill the males only because they don't want the females to go to seed, which reduces their output, and because the males are rather sparsely leaved and don't have any of the big flowers (bud) that brings the highest price. And the females, neither flower nor leaves, of the hemp plants do nothing at all no matter how much of them you smoke. If you don't believe me, try posting that comment on alt.drugs.pot.cultivation once and see how much laughter it produces. Of course, the purists there will tell you not to bother with the leaves of either male *or* female, that only the bud is worthwhile, but there are plenty of people who happily utilize the male leaves while waiting for the females to mature. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting
Kim, It is nice to hear a ski lover, because in these temperatures it is very dangerous if you do not now what you are doing. But you are right, it is nobody in the slope and with the right snow and sunny it can be great. Already at minus 25 C you have minus 60 C in the slope, if you consider the windchill factor. It is dangerous if you are not covered up properly and already after a few hundred meters skiing, your ski mask have an ice layer from your breath. Melts in the lift although. When we were skiing I did the same, let it running. But I slept in my Caravan that was parked at the skiing area and no garage for the car during the night. The caravan had heater and additional heaters plug in to the electricity pole, plus the engine heater for the car. Below freezing at floor level and nearly sauna at ceiling, but no real problems. Hakan At 07:33 AM 12/12/2002 -0600, you wrote: Actually, when I lived in Canada, we did ski in -40. It was great because there were so few people on the hill. I loved it. BTW, -40 is both C F, it is the point where they meet. I had a 1/4 ton truck that was diesel, we used to just leave it run when it got that cold. Bright Blessings, Kim Hakan Falk wrote: You cannot ski in minus 40 degree Celsius, if you do not cover all parts of your skin. I sincerely suggest that you stay inside and do not take the risk of severe skin damages. If you get such extremely low temperatures, mix you diesel with 10 to 20% kerosene, but only for that occasion. In temperatures above minus 25 degree Celsius, you will normally have no problems. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Furnace Fine Tuning
Thanks Hakan At 03:21 AM 12/12/2002 +0100, you wrote: With biodiesel it can be a problem that it does not burn out. A smaller nozzle for a shorter flame and if possible higher pressure, could fix it. You will probably get a 20-30% lower heating capacity from your burner, but they are mostly 2-3 times over sized anyway. It will run longer periods with less pollution and that is positive. I Germany they have restrictions now on how many start/stop that can be tolerated, this to control pollution and force a more serious sizing. Hakan At 03:42 PM 12/11/2002 -0500, you wrote: Greetings, We have a very competent furnace / boiler technician that is having a difficult time fine tuning the burner for complete combustion. We are burning B100 in the furnace and that is the only fuel that the system has ever seen. Symptoms are as follows: 1)Sometimes it sounds like a mini explosion when the unit fires up 2)There is soot from incomplete combustion 3)There is a slight drip from the suntec pump I would love to be able to say that we burn B100 trouble free. Any pertinent suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Thom Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Thomas Strange Solar Market - Talmage Solar Engineering 25 Limerick Road Suite 1 Arundel, ME 04046 (207) 985-0088 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Low temperature carbonization
I don't see why it could not compete with the LS coal, because is has even less sulfur that the coal does. As air restrictions get tighter and tighter even LS coal is going to become less cost effective. If restrictions get that tight, pretreating the coal will probably still be cheaper than buying char, with all the processing that has to have. Just impregnating coal with a carbonate, for instance, will do a pretty good job of converting sulfur to easily scrubbable compounds. As for using high-sulfur coals, I have my doubts. Whether the sulfur is driven off during coking, thus needing to be scrubbed out of the gases and/or liquids, or remains in the char, it still must be cleaned up, which imposes a further cost no matter how it is done. It may not need to be cleaned up. For instance, if the oil ( with the sulfur ) might be used in the plastics or rubber industry, because in those areas sulfur is used to stablize many different types of plastic and rubber. Now THAT's a thought - but only if the sulfur ends up in the liquids. If it ends up in the gas, you're still stuck with scrubbing. The gas and liquid hydrocarbons produced are completely irrelevant to the argument, as, without a market for the char, the entire cost of operating the process, including cracking or separating the tars, scrubbing the sulfur and giving away or otherwise disposing of the char, must be charged to what CAN be sold, making the retort gas and combustible oils far too expensive. Not true, The char could be used to power the proceses in the first place making it less costly, think about it use a by product of of your own production, to lower your cost of production. Excess heat from production could also then be used to generate electricity to lower your cost from that vantage point additionaly. Sorry, but you're still going to end up with a lot of unsalable char. I believe this is why low-temperature coking was abandoned as a commercial fuel production process in the first place, and absent a very large increase in the cost of petroleum (leading stationary power producers to switch to solid fuel), I can't see it coming back. There are several possible reasons, that it may not come back. 2) If it is so good then why are we not using it now? attitude ( not to belittle you or cause hurt feelings, your own post contains this negativity ). I'm not offended - only amused. I've made a career out of digging up shelved technology and evaluating it for possible revival. That's why I recognized this process in the first place! And it is not negative to recognize the limitations of a process - at least not in my book. Well then years later came WW2 and the German V2 rocket, after the war the allied scientist ( American ) in particular, interviewing the German rocket scientist asked how they ( the Germans ) got started, the Germans basically said that the American scientist were idiots, because they didn't listen to one of their own (Goddard). A really poor analogy, as the use of LTC persisted in Germany long after its abandonment in the States...but it has been abandoned there, too, despite Germany's near total absence of petroleum resources. People are often willing to take a chance on making money! If the process has real merit, somebody's going to want to profit from it. 5) Big oil has a lot of money to 'grease' government in to thinking that it is some how bad. Sigh. What if it really IS no good? Or more correctly, uneconomical under current conditions. 6) Companies that own / mine low sulfur coal feel threatened, and they use money just like big oil. Any evidence that this is happening? I rather doubt it, as any adverse publicity about LTC would be ...publicity, and would make people aware of a rather obscure technology. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Compromise
I have been following the discussion boards on biodiesel and the issues are actually simple. The 99% of diesel buyers in the US and Canada are fleets (trucking, buses, trains, etc.) who will demand and get high quality specification product from larger producers. This is fine. The extremely small (1%) of automotive, pickup truck and SUV diesel owners can make their own supply and it will be a variable quality most of the time and that is fine. Many of the small diesels are older GM, Mercedes, etc. designs that can withstand variable quality and the owners enjoy making their own supply. This is much like the early days when kerosene was refined from the natual product rock oil. It was a decentralized industry with no specifications. Lamps were designed for whale oil or coal oil. Over time the industry consolidated as specifications became more common for kerosene. Home (space) heating with oil will be replaced by natural gas in the Northeast, so the potential use of biofuel in heating will end as gas is cheaper, abundant and cleaner. Europe is different with its large diesel automobile base (about 40%). But the biodiesel manufacturers set high standards years ago to meet the needs of high performance diesel engines. Over time, as the US and Canada mix changes, so will the consolidation in the manufacturing base with high quality production replacing lower quality. Newer diesel engines will come from Japan and Europe. This is the natural progress of technology. There will always be a place for small producers. Good luck. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] cold weather starting
Try buying an Optima battery: http://www.optimabatteries.com/ and don't forget to put some winter additive in your diesel (there's nothing worse than spending the winter in the parking lot due to a frozen fuel line) :) -Original Message- From: Michael Henry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 8:49 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] cold weather starting I've actually just bought my first diesel car, and this is one of my main concerns (as I said, I don't really know anything!) - If I go skiing and can't plug my car in, for the day or sometimes even for a few days, do you have tips on starting it when I want to get home? Is this something I need to worry about? Sounds like you have lots of experience, and I really don't know what to expect going into my first winter with a diesel. When I get that far, I'm also planning to mix biodiesel with petro diesel to reduce cold weather starting problems. Is that a good solution? While it may not be a real problem at all, It may be a percieved problem with diesel - for people like me who don't know much about it but what they've heard. The effect can be the same. Mike Hakan Falk wrote: I had diesel cars the last 26 years as private vehicle, both in Sweden and after I moved to middle and southern Europe. In Sweden it was often minus 25 Celsius in the winter and minus 15 Celsius in Central Europe. The only time I had serious problem was one time when I was skiing in Sweden and it was minus 40 Celsius for a couple of days. Had to heat it up and then put 20% Kerosene in the tank. Could not ski anyway, since the risk for bad frostbites was too big. Hakan PS. during the same period I had gasoline company cars. At 10:34 AM 12/10/2002 -0500, you wrote: I don't really know what I'm talking about, but from a Canadian perspective I think diesel is widely considered a dirty fuel (and it sounds like the truth of this is what you're researching), but also it's hard to start when it's minus 20 degrees, which is a real, if surmountable, problem in this climate - this second point would also apply to some areas in the US. Mike Hello All, I'm looking for a concise description of the differences between European (global if you know) and US diesel fuel (BTU, Sulphur content, refinement processes, etc), exhaust systems (Catalytic converters, emission controls, etc), as well as any other significant combustion and/or emissions differences. I'm trying to put together a complete but digestible description of global diesel usage as well as the reasons for it's notable lack of presence in the US. Thanks, Thom Hello Thom Good for you. Can't help much, but these might be useful: Fuel Lubricity Reviewed, Paul Lacey, Southwest Research Institute, Steve Howell, MARC-IV Consulting, Inc., SAE paper number 982567, International Fall Fuels and Lubricants Meeting and Exposition, October 19-22, 1998, San Francisco, California. Lubricity Benefits http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/Lubricity.PDF Best Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Article about biofuel business
Thanks Hakan for this very interesting view on biofuels! But may I give you some impression fo the german point of view? First of all you did not mention Methanol, Fischer-Tropsch-Fuels (FT-fuels) and Biogas. Ethanol is not discussed in Germany probably of the lack of agricultural aera. I will not talk about Methanol because I think it will not have any chance. So what about FT-fuels? This fuel is promoted in Germany by federal institutions and by the automobil industry - namely DC and VW. This medium-term opportunity needs no chances in the motors, it can be made from every organic material but it needs bigger productions sites. On the other hand it is very energy intensive in production and the technology is still in development. Here a big discussion is going on. Biogas also now is in the discussion: cleaned and enriched up to Natural Gas and bringing it to a filling station or feeding it into a gas pipeline may be an interesting thing. This is already done in Sweden and Switzerland. There are cars driving with NG, many new NG filling stations will be built in nearest future, the liberalisation of the EU Gas market is in progress and the technology is available. The fraction of NG cars will increase. Producing electricity from biogas in Germany is economically very interesting because of a refund assured by law. And biogas can be produced in very small units. Biodiesel does not have the best reputation cause of the problems of monocultures. But it takes 0,55 % of the fuel market in Germany. So these are some points what is in the discussion in Germany. But Germany is not the biggest country although it has the most people in the Europe. A unique solution can only be found within Europe, here Ethanol might be leading. Another thing is the opening of the EU towards the east, with it big aeras of land and cheap labor. So, this is a little input - hastily written. Greetings Daniel Hakan Falk schrieb: Hi Keith and others, I am now close to publish, http://energy.saving.nu/biofuels/biofuelorg.shtml I am still insecure about Ethanol, big or small? and will probably take this as a separate issue all together. Politics and perceptions are very important for a business, so I am not sure yet. Please look at it and give me your comments, both good and bad. Hakan ** If you want to take a look on a project that is very close to my heart, go to: http://energysavingnow.com/ http://hakan.vitools.net/ My .Net Card http://hakan.vitools.org/ About me http://vitools.com/ My webmaster site ** A truth's initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn't the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn't flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic. -- Dresden James No flag is large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people -- Howard Zinn Nobody grows old merely by living a number of years. We grow old by deserting our ideals. Years may wrinkle the skin, but to give up enthusiasm wrinkles the soul. - Unknown Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Mit freundlichen Gr§en Daniel West __ Zentrum fr Sonnenenergie- und Wasserstoff-Forschung (ZSW) Regenerative Kraftstoffe und Verfahren (REG) Center of Solar Energy and Hydrogen Research Renewable Fuels and Processes Netzwerk Regenerative Kraftstoffe - ReFuelNet Dipl.-Ing. Daniel West Hessbruehlstra§e 21C, D-70565 Stuttgart Tel.: ++49-711-7870-249 / Fax: -200 eMail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.zsw-bw.de http://www.refuelnet.de __ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: cold weather starting
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Michael Henry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've actually just bought my first diesel car, and this is one of my main concerns (as I said, I don't really know anything!) - If I go skiing and can't plug my car in, for the day or sometimes even for a few days, do you have tips on starting it when I want to get home? Switch to synthetic oil and you won't need to plug it in. Also make sure your glow plugs are working properly. winter with a diesel. When I get that far, I'm also planning to mix biodiesel with petro diesel to reduce cold weather starting problems. Is that a good solution? People using biodiesel who live in cold climes need to add some dino-diesel or kerosene into the biodiesel to keep it from solidifying. Or they put a heater on the tank and fuel lines, just as users of SVO need to do. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: cold weather starting
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Bryan Fullerton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Geez, if you need ether to start it, you need to rebuild the engine. Or, if you use much ether on a good engine, you *will* be rebuilding it sooner, not later. kinda worn out. If you intend to use your diesel where the air is really cold, below 15 degrees F, I would suggest that you double check your batteries. I think most diesels have two batteries to start. since cranking Neither my '82 diesel vanagon nor my '82 diesel datsun pickup have two batteries, and they start fine. Nor do I use a plug in. heater. Make sure the glow plugs are good and use synthetic oil and you'll be okay. Most diesels *don't* have two batteries, at least not the car diesels. Some Canadian diesel pickups ran 24v systems and they have two batteries, and GM with the total crappola diesel engine they put in their cars for a few years had to use two batteries, and even then they wouldn't start, but those were junk design from the word go. Probably if you need all those batteries to start your vehicle, you need to buy a new starter. Just having bad bushing and or brushes in the starter can do you in. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Article about biofuel business
Dear Daniel, The subject was biofuel and I see them as renewable biological sources. I was driving Taxis on NG, 40 years ago in Sweden, but it is not a biofuel. The country that adopted NG the most is probably The Netherlands and I have often driven NG fueled cars there. They also have resources of natural gas. Keith initiated a very interesting discussion about synthetic fuels and the production of oil from coal. All of this are especially interesting for the coal rich Germany. It is however not biofuel. I do not think that Germany lacks agricultural area, it is a pseudo argument. You do not hear this in The Netherlands who have most people per square kilometer of the countries in the world. I also had an other restriction that excludes many alternative that are possible to develop. That is the ready for use condition. This means that it could be generally implemented in a time span of 20 to 40 years. Ethanol and Biodiesel/SVO can use existing consumer equipment and fit into existing distribution systems. If you start a business based on biofuel it must be possible to sell and use it now. If not, it is not a business. In fact, it was a very interesting exercise to take that perspective, because it becomes an acid test for the ready for use perspective. I have so much that I want to learn and so much that I want to communicate. I will continue and you will probably find the tings you missed in an other piece for our web site. Hakan At 04:22 PM 12/12/2002 +0100, you wrote: Thanks Hakan for this very interesting view on biofuels! But may I give you some impression fo the german point of view? First of all you did not mention Methanol, Fischer-Tropsch-Fuels (FT-fuels) and Biogas. Ethanol is not discussed in Germany probably of the lack of agricultural aera. I will not talk about Methanol because I think it will not have any chance. So what about FT-fuels? This fuel is promoted in Germany by federal institutions and by the automobil industry - namely DC and VW. This medium-term opportunity needs no chances in the motors, it can be made from every organic material but it needs bigger productions sites. On the other hand it is very energy intensive in production and the technology is still in development. Here a big discussion is going on. Biogas also now is in the discussion: cleaned and enriched up to Natural Gas and bringing it to a filling station or feeding it into a gas pipeline may be an interesting thing. This is already done in Sweden and Switzerland. There are cars driving with NG, many new NG filling stations will be built in nearest future, the liberalisation of the EU Gas market is in progress and the technology is available. The fraction of NG cars will increase. Producing electricity from biogas in Germany is economically very interesting because of a refund assured by law. And biogas can be produced in very small units. Biodiesel does not have the best reputation cause of the problems of monocultures. But it takes 0,55 % of the fuel market in Germany. So these are some points what is in the discussion in Germany. But Germany is not the biggest country although it has the most people in the Europe. A unique solution can only be found within Europe, here Ethanol might be leading. Another thing is the opening of the EU towards the east, with it big aeras of land and cheap labor. So, this is a little input - hastily written. Greetings Daniel Hakan Falk schrieb: Hi Keith and others, I am now close to publish, http://energy.saving.nu/biofuels/biofuelorg.shtml I am still insecure about Ethanol, big or small? and will probably take this as a separate issue all together. Politics and perceptions are very important for a business, so I am not sure yet. Please look at it and give me your comments, both good and bad. Hakan ** If you want to take a look on a project that is very close to my heart, go to: http://energysavingnow.com/ http://hakan.vitools.net/ My .Net Card http://hakan.vitools.org/ About me http://vitools.com/ My webmaster site ** A truth's initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn't the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn't flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic. -- Dresden James No flag is large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people -- Howard Zinn Nobody grows old merely by living a number of years. We grow old by deserting our ideals. Years may wrinkle the skin, but to give up enthusiasm wrinkles the soul. - Unknown Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list
Re: [biofuel] Low temperature carbonization
- Original Message - From: Marc de Piolenc [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 08:05 Subject: [biofuel] Low temperature carbonization If restrictions get that tight, pretreating the coal will probably still be cheaper than buying char, with all the processing that has to have. Just impregnating coal with a carbonate, for instance, will do a pretty good job of converting sulfur to easily scrubbable compounds. How do you figure that pretreating is going to be more cost effective? Not true, The char could be used to power the proceses in the first place making it less costly, think about it use a by product of of your own production, to lower your cost of production. Excess heat from . production could also then be used to generate electricity to lower your cost from that vantage point additionaly. Sorry, but you're still going to end up with a lot of unsalable char. Why do you say it is not saleable? It is a fuel, that is has little to no volatiles. This makes it useful in many applacations. I'm not offended - only amused. I've made a career out of digging up shelved technology and evaluating it for possible revival. That's why I recognized this process in the first place! And it is not negative to recognize the limitations of a process - at least not in my book. What are the limitations? A really poor analogy, as the use of LTC persisted in Germany long after its abandonment in the States...but it has been abandoned there, too, despite Germany's near total absence of petroleum resources. Probably because for time it is/was easier to buy from the oil producing nations, that does not mean, it should be abandoned all together. People are often willing to take a chance on making money! If the process has real merit, somebody's going to want to profit from it. If they know about it. Sigh. What if it really IS no good? Or more correctly, uneconomical under current conditions. It it? The problem is I don't know of any up to date information from a neutral party. Do you ? Any evidence that this is happening? I rather doubt it, as any adverse publicity about LTC would be ...publicity, and would make people aware of a rather obscure technology. According to the article there was that problem at that time. Perhaps I should have said 'might' if it were to happen today, at the same time many things today have been kept hush-hush. It is lot easier to keep things that are obscure quiet, than it is to keep things that are not obscure quiet. This can be done by ensuring that they remain obscure. Greg H. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Petroleum's Role in Hemp Prohibition
Ater doing a little reading, I must adjust my statement slightly but, Harmon you are way off base here. In this country both hemp and marijuana come from the cannabis sativa plant. And while hemp is taken from the female stem as well as the male, the male's fibers are much stronger, so are more highly valued. I can't find the link but, I read that high quality Manila rope comes exclusively from male plants. Like Keith said, there is 0.3% THC in hemp fiber and the drug czar claimed on TV the other day that today's marijuana has up to 30%. How high do you think you'll get on something that is 90 times weaker that what people are smoking. You can't sell male plant for any price, only an idiot would smoke something that will only give you a headache instead of a high. Do a few drops of alcohol make a cocktail? If you still think you are correct, then produce something more than just calling my statement nonsense. I know that you'll counter with,Internet sites are not proof of anything, but since we are using the Internet for this discussion, I will accept web sites that support your statement. Please read: http://www.ladybugsparlor.com/links/fiber.htm kris --- Harmon Seaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Kris Book [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hemp is the term used for the male and marijuana is the term used to describe the female cannabis plant. There are many subspecies but, all females are psychoactive and all males are not. Kris, this is total nonsense -- where ever did you get such a silly idea? The leaves of the male pot plants will stone you just as much as the leaves of the females. Growers usually kill the males only because they don't want the females to go to seed, which reduces their output, and because the males are rather sparsely leaved and don't have any of the big flowers (bud) that brings the highest price. And the females, neither flower nor leaves, of the hemp plants do nothing at all no matter how much of them you smoke. If you don't believe me, try posting that comment on alt.drugs.pot.cultivation once and see how much laughter it produces. Of course, the purists there will tell you not to bother with the leaves of either male *or* female, that only the bud is worthwhile, but there are plenty of people who happily utilize the male leaves while waiting for the females to mature. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] [m]ethyl esters to methane
Is it possible to convert biodiesel to a natural gas such as methane or propane? If so, how? It's been two years since chemistry class for me so I can't really remember how it would be done. --- Martin Klingensmith http://nnytech.net/ http://infoarchive.net/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Film on the ethanol issue in Australia
On the secrecy article, I was just thinking the same thing. I'm not even sure others here are of like mind with me, that this one Australian who is pushing unlabeled over-10% mixtures is possibly poisoning the well for all nascient Australian biofuel efforts, but that's my tentative opinion and that we've already failed to do enough because Australia is *not* an insignificant country in nascient alternative energy efforts. I bet that, privately, it doesn't bother larger Petroleum interests in Australia that this jerk is doing damage to the long-term credibility of efforts to sell ethanol in Australia. I'd like others' opinions, if possible. MM I think we should help Mark if we can. Thank you for your response. My screenplay is somewhat controversial as it mirrors what is happening in the halls of power. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] The big picture
I see a problem here that I did not see before. The term cracker, which is what hackers are recommending we use when we wish to connote hacker gone to the dark side or some such, has some slight built-in vernacular ambiguities. Is one talking about a safe cracker? Is one trying to connote drug use? (Crack cocaine). Is there some sort of racist ambiguity? (I'm not sure why but I seem to recall cracker being some sort of racial epithet from one of the races to another). White trash. Maybe there could be a new term for a malicious hacker. Or maybe just get better at using cracker. Yeah, that sounds ok now that I think it through a little. We'll see. Should be, if it gets used enough. The wonderful Jargon Lexicon gets into the background as usual - only back to Shakespeare this time, LOL! Looks like what King John called a cracker one would call an AH these days. Yes, it's LOL, but it would help explain why so many of the supposedly clueless (and many are not) are reluctant to use the word cracker and distinguish between that and hacker. cracker n. One who breaks security on a system. Coined ca. 1985 by hackers in defense against journalistic misuse of hacker (q.v., sense 8). An earlier attempt to establish `worm' in this sense around 1981-82 on Usenet was largely a failure. Use of both these neologisms reflects a strong revulsion against the theft and vandalism perpetrated by cracking rings. The neologism cracker in this sense may have been influenced not so much by the term safe-cracker as by the non-jargon term cracker, which in Middle English meant an obnoxious person (e.g., What cracker is this same that deafs our ears / With this abundance of superfluous breath? - Shakespeare's King John, Act II, Scene I) and in modern colloquial American English survives as a barely gentler synonym for white trash. While it is expected that any real hacker will have done some playful cracking and knows many of the basic techniques, anyone past larval stage is expected to have outgrown the desire to do so except for immediate, benign, practical reasons (for example, if it's necessary to get around some security in order to get some work done). It is asking a lot of non-involved folks to make these laborious distinctions if it's even *expected* that a real hacker *will have done some benign cracking*. This is not just a matter of sensationalistic journalists at fault. Hackers are going to have to do better than that, if they wish the entire world to make these laborious distinctions. Thus, there is far less overlap between hackerdom and crackerdom than the mundane reader misled by sensationalistic journalism might expect. Crackers tend to gather in small, tight-knit, very secretive groups that have little overlap with the huge, open poly-culture this lexicon describes; though crackers often like to describe themselves as hackers, most true hackers consider them a separate and lower form of life. Ethical considerations aside, hackers figure that anyone who can't imagine a more interesting way to play with their computers than breaking into someone else's has to be pretty losing. Some other reasons crackers are looked down on are discussed in the entries on cracking and phreaking. See also samurai, dark-side hacker, and hacker ethic. For a portrait of the typical teenage cracker, see warez d00dz That's right, blame it all on the press. :-) I understood pretty much all these distinctions before reading this, and I still have not made up my mind as to which terms I will use going forward. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Henry Ford, Charles Kettering and The Fuel of the Future
On Wed, 11 Dec 2002 16:51:21 -0800 (PST), you wrote: There is way too much debate on whether on not to use these alternate fuels because of sustainability. Clearly, when American farmers are paid to not grow crops the issue seems to be resolved! Too much debate and not enough action! I have been contemplating biodiesel in an older Benz but if I wait for the testing, and the debates and wait for the meeting of the minds, I will be waiting a long time. Time to brew up some fat in the garage! Well, really, I couldn't agree with you more, from a personal get it done perspective. The debate over sustainability is important perhaps not directly to your own project but to whether the powers-that-be vote to get over the umpteen different hurdles that are thrown in the way of alt-fuel efforts by the petrol industry, and to get the hell out of the way of legitimate competition in the fuel industry and waste recycling industry. In my estimation, of those hurdles, one of the toughest is in getting an accurate read on sustainability, alongside a few others such as backward compatability with legacy machinery, breaking through the worldwide fuel distribution in-place legally-protected monopolies or near-monopolies, new environmental issues that may come up with relatively new technologies, and a few others I guess. If petrol were sustainable and somewhat more environmentally friendly to drill, refine and use, we probably wouldn't care nearly as much about finding alternatives. It's pretty cheap at present, energy dense and useful in myriad ways. Lack of U.S. domestic availability also contributes to the search for alternatives. The payment of U.S. farmers not to grow crops doesn't settle the issue for me because if you're talking about not only feeding all U.S. citizens but also replacing most U.S. fuel needs with biofuels then the amounts needed are staggering... not at all just what is needed for one side (food). What I like to focus on is that we have waste (such as grease from homes and restauraunts) which is presently not optimally used. This, to me, is a clue in economics that something is a bit amiss. Theoretically, an enterprising person, in a competitive economy (which ours is often alleged to be) would be able to spot that waste and make use of it and make money from it, or at least make a go of it. MM Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Petroleum's Role in Hemp Prohibition
I've heard it said that part of what makes U.S. paper currency unique is that hemp is used in the paper, but I'm not sure if this is true. Maybe the whole matter, the whole giant friggin hypocrisy of it all, makes me so upset that I decided to focus on less upsetting things like the needless throwing away of American Economy and Policy Independence to those who have zero interest in a sustainable future for any decent values, economies, societies, or whatever, particular to those whose focus is to prevent progress in energy technologies. I can understand that. All those people in jail for no good reason, being brutalized and criminalized, it's outrageous. It's also completely out of step - the other industrialized countries are moving in exactly the opposite direction. The industrial hemp prohibition is also out of step, and will see the US being left behind. Insane, really. One of the things I did with the energy issues is, corrolary to my treatment of it, examine how we criticize our Presidents, leaders, politicians, policy-makers. I explained that I thought there were better things to criticize about President Clinton than his sex life and alleged criminal behaviour, and that I thought it was a tragic (and indeed destructive) waste of the country's time to spend our valuable time during his administration playing get the President. I explained that if there were really folks who wanted to criticize his policies and ideas and whatever, that there were many other areas that much more cogent and effective criticism could be brought to bear, such as his National Energy Policies, or lack thereof. This was a compilation of some of my stuff, which had been written out a few times in months prior to March 2000: http://www.herecomesmongo.com/ae/03092000.html I failed to make sufficiently clear a few other related points. I think we all have a responsibility to offer cogent and intelligent criticism of our leaders if we are to offer criticism at all. Our leaders (who are also, in effect, our hired employees, where they are sort of CEOs and corporate officers and we are their board and their shareholders and customers) suffer when we fail to offer them the best possible criticisms of the jobs they are doing, because they can really improve their performance if the get top-notch criticism that really gets to the point and hits home. It's hard to improve yourself when the criticisms that you're getting are ankle-biting nonsense unworthy of consideration or time. It's easy to criticize the boss or the CEO when you're a peon, but how do you bring *valuable* criticism to everone's time? Effective and good criticism is not only well-intended and high-reaching, but I think it should incorporate some policy of actively trying to decide for oneself and define What is a good job rather than waiting, reacting to individuals' actions and then criticizing those actions. It is asking yourself: Ok, smartypants, you think you're so smart, what would *you* do if you were thus-and-such office-holder? It is, in the case of criticism of Presidents, understanding that a primary potentiality and power of the office is in simply having the Podium for four whole years, having the opportunity to exercise one's place at the Bullypulpit to bring attention to whatever issues one and one's team think are in need of attention. Failure to bring attention to other issues becomes, at that point, a sort of choice. If a critic defines an issue as important, and if a President fails to *discuss* an issue in four years of Office, then a very effective criticism can be brought to bear at that point, on the issue of failure to do or say a needed thing, rather than commission of some allegedly bad or illegal of half-baked act. An example of such a criticism of a failure-to-discuss, not a great example, but an example, would be that in the Debates of 92 or so, between nominee Clinton and President Bush Sr., (Perot may have been on stage also), President Bush Sr. said something about the Aids crisis, and it was a nice little statement that I think expressed desire to do something about a terrible problem, although it was in the context of running for office and not of exercising the already-gained powers, and President Clinton responded something like: That's a very nice sentiment, but it's too bad that in four years of office that's the most you've ever said on the issue and pretty much the first time you've ever bothered to voice such ideas. How right he was, and that President had previously served eight years in another administration which was also woefully silent compared to what it should have voiced. It was one of the few times in my life I somewhat felt like standing up and cheering in listening to public discourse. Mr. Clinton did go on to try to bring more attention to the AIDS crisis as President, I guess. He did not unfortunately go on to do say or do enough to discuss a wide variety of problems, though.
[biofuel] Embodied energy
This is a bit OT, but I don't know where else to address an audience with the potential interest level. I'm planning to build a new house in a rural area, and I'd like to do it in an ecologically sound way. The plan at present is 1700 sq.ft., straw bale walls, minimal usage of wood and concrete, etc etc. I've run across a measure of environmental impact called embodied energy, which tries to include not only the energy required to manufacture the basic material, but also such factors as the energy needed to transport the raw and finished materials, the amount of labor needed to install (ie, transporting n workers to a site), as well as the lifetime of the end result. Unfortunately, this index (imprecise at best) DOESN'T typically seem to address two issues of particular concern to me -- carbon burden (atmospheric), and sustainability (how long will supplies of the material last at current consumption rates). Maybe that's because the bulk of the work was done in the 70's, when such info was less significant or not yet emphasized. Anyway, does anyone know of RECENT research addressing these issues as they pertain to home construction methods? Steel roofs vs comp shingle -- concrete slab floor vs wooden joists -- solid timber beams vs engineered wood products, etc. ? -K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Embodied energy
Hi Ken, I was in contact a while ago with Bill Seavey, http://bajanet.com/featured_articles/three_little_pigs.htm He has some experience and can probably give you references on where to find more material. Hakan At 05:40 PM 12/12/2002 -0800, you wrote: This is a bit OT, but I don't know where else to address an audience with the potential interest level. I'm planning to build a new house in a rural area, and I'd like to do it in an ecologically sound way. The plan at present is 1700 sq.ft., straw bale walls, minimal usage of wood and concrete, etc etc. I've run across a measure of environmental impact called embodied energy, which tries to include not only the energy required to manufacture the basic material, but also such factors as the energy needed to transport the raw and finished materials, the amount of labor needed to install (ie, transporting n workers to a site), as well as the lifetime of the end result. Unfortunately, this index (imprecise at best) DOESN'T typically seem to address two issues of particular concern to me -- carbon burden (atmospheric), and sustainability (how long will supplies of the material last at current consumption rates). Maybe that's because the bulk of the work was done in the 70's, when such info was less significant or not yet emphasized. Anyway, does anyone know of RECENT research addressing these issues as they pertain to home construction methods? Steel roofs vs comp shingle -- concrete slab floor vs wooden joists -- solid timber beams vs engineered wood products, etc. ? -K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Henry Ford, Charles Kettering and The Fuel of the Future
Backward compatability does not seem to be at issue. Japenese manufacturers diesel models do not seem to have the endurance to go as long as European autos and Europeans have been building with biodiesel in mind since 1996. After x amount of years, it wont be a problem. As far as the legally protected monopolies...I see a bigger problem with the oil companies and the government needed to implement change. Waste (such as grease from homes and restauraunts) is currently thrown out as hazardous materials here in New York! I have been crunching some numbers to see if it is feasible to take advantage of this. G __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] [m]ethyl esters to methane
Martin, Time to dig out the organic chemistry books again :) In theory it is possible to break methyl esters or any other hydrocarbon chain into smaller CH4 molecules. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] [m]ethyl esters to methane
Well I have been reading about hydrocarbon cracking on the hobbicast list and trying to stir up some information. So I was thinking about biodiesel and wondering if you could do the same with it. Perhaps I can burn biodiesel in my melting furnace! :) Or perhaps biodiesel could be broken into thinner chains to make it's gel point lower. My sister is a chemistry major I'll have to ask her. Shameless endorsement: hobbicast http://infoarchive.net/index.php?list=hobbicast is archived at the infoarchive http://infoarchive.net/, as well as 12 other groups. Glenn wrote: Martin, Time to dig out the organic chemistry books again :) In theory it is possible to break methyl esters or any other hydrocarbon chain into smaller CH4 molecules. -- --- Martin Klingensmith http://nnytech.net/ http://infoarchive.net/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] [m]ethyl esters to methane
It seems a little backwards to do this- after all the methanol is reformulated from methane, no? I'm reading a great book called 'a chinese biogas manual' about methane digesters. they're mostly talking about large-scale (large family or work group within a large rural commune). My friend the UC Davis grad student studying digesters (and building them, and teaching about them, and probably thinking about little but anaerobic bacteria and how to make them comfortable!) uses a small-scale design that's based on an old water heater as a demo digester. DOn't know how much comes out of one of those but I think it's signficant. So there's fairly easy ways of making methane without resorting to chemical cracking of hydrocarbons when the bacteria can do it for you. One of my buddies wants to build one to digest excess glycerine from biodiesel. Mark At 12:44 AM 12/13/2002 -0500, you wrote: Well I have been reading about hydrocarbon cracking on the hobbicast list and trying to stir up some information. So I was thinking about biodiesel and wondering if you could do the same with it. Perhaps I can burn biodiesel in my melting furnace! :) Or perhaps biodiesel could be broken into thinner chains to make it's gel point lower. My sister is a chemistry major I'll have to ask her. Shameless endorsement: hobbicast http://infoarchive.net/index.php?list=hobbicasthttp://infoarchive.net/index.php?list=hobbicast is archived at the infoarchive http://infoarchive.net/http://infoarchive.net/, as well as 12 other groups. Glenn wrote: Martin, Time to dig out the organic chemistry books again :) In theory it is possible to break methyl esters or any other hydrocarbon chain into smaller CH4 molecules. -- --- Martin Klingensmith http://nnytech.net/http://nnytech.net/ http://infoarchive.net/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlhttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] more on methane digesters
methane digesters... Can also be 'run' off of sewage, or animal manure (and just about any other wastes, including lawn clippings, kitchen scraps, etc). I think someone in my circle of renewable energy weirdos has a digester that's powered by their toilet (it's a marine macerator toilet in their house that feeds the digester). Mark At 09:56 PM 12/12/2002 -0800, you wrote: It seems a little backwards to do this- after all the methanol is reformulated from methane, no? I'm reading a great book called 'a chinese biogas manual' about methane digesters. they're mostly talking about large-scale (large family or work group within a large rural commune). My friend the UC Davis grad student studying digesters (and building them, and teaching about them, and probably thinking about little but anaerobic bacteria and how to make them comfortable!) uses a small-scale design that's based on an old water heater as a demo digester. DOn't know how much comes out of one of those but I think it's signficant. So there's fairly easy ways of making methane without resorting to chemical cracking of hydrocarbons when the bacteria can do it for you. One of my buddies wants to build one to digest excess glycerine from biodiesel. Mark At 12:44 AM 12/13/2002 -0500, you wrote: Well I have been reading about hydrocarbon cracking on the hobbicast list and trying to stir up some information. So I was thinking about biodiesel and wondering if you could do the same with it. Perhaps I can burn biodiesel in my melting furnace! :) Or perhaps biodiesel could be broken into thinner chains to make it's gel point lower. My sister is a chemistry major I'll have to ask her. Shameless endorsement: hobbicast http://infoarchive.net/index.php?list=hobbicasthttp://infoarchive.net /index.php?list=hobbicasthttp://infoarchive.net/index.php?list=hobbicast is archived at the infoarchive http://infoarchive.net/http://infoarchive.net/http://infoarchive.net/, as well as 12 other groups. Glenn wrote: Martin, Time to dig out the organic chemistry books again :) In theory it is possible to break methyl esters or any other hydrocarbon chain into smaller CH4 molecules. -- --- Martin Klingensmith http://nnytech.net/http://nnytech.net/http://nnytech.net/ http://infoarchive.net/http://infoarchive.net/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlhttp://journeytoforever.org/bi ofuel.htmlhttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/http://archive.nnytech.net/http://archive. nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/Yah oo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlhttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Veg. Oil and or soaps from BioD production
Ive read some post in other places where folk have used diesel fuel, and waste motor oils to make a paste or inside body part rust prevention sprays(like in doors). Military has run test on diff. oils for this purpose, but not veg oils. I live in the rust belt so I like the idea. Anyone done this with veg oils. Would it invite mice and bugs and other creatures to invade? What about the products left after making BioD (soaps etc.) Any of that stuff maybe good for this? I could see swabbing it on under your car in the winter with a big wall paper brush. or just rubber gloves and coat her all up. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
