Re: [biofuels-biz] SF biodiesel/SVO Another B100 pump
Winny, can we meet? - Original Message - From: Winny De Schryver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 8:04 PM Subject: RE: [biofuels-biz] SF biodiesel/SVO Another B100 pump Steve, Can you give me some figures about your plants ? What is the production and what is the metod catalyst or without catalyst ? Only WVA or pure oil to ? We are in Belgium and looking to build a plant of 50,000 tons a year, continious production without catalyst. Kind regards Winny -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: Steve Spence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Verzonden: donderdag 6 maart 2003 20:35 Aan: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; wastewatts; vegoil-diesel; sustainablenrg; homeenergysolutions; future9; EcoPages_Newswire; BiomassGroup; bio-oil; alternatepower; biofuels-biz; BFIC; 3rdworldenergy; Biofuel - Egroups; Biodiesel - Egroups Onderwerp: [biofuels-biz] SF biodiesel/SVO Another B100 pump Just to straighten out any confusion. The plant being built in San Jose with Western States Oil is part of a joint venture with us, Biodiesel Industries, not Pacific Biodiesel. The San Jose plant will use recycled cooking oils as a feedstock, just like our plants in Las Vegas, NV and New South Wales, Australia. The Western States Oil station in San Jose is pumping B100, but we have put off any publicity until the signs are finished etc. Glad to see that the svo'ers have such an active word of mouth network, and that they are ahead of the press on this one. Once the San Jose plant is finished, prices will come down substantially. We are currently at $1.40 per gallon FOB Las Vegas (pretax) for B100, and are expanding that facility to 3 million gallons per year. Our entire current output is already committed under contract to government fleets in the area, but we hope to have more available to new users once the expansion is completed (mid April hopefully). Russ Teall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biodiesel Industries http://www.pipeline.to/biodiesel/ Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Biocides
With one particular truck the available commercial biocides, that come with injector cleaner, have failed to sterilise the fuel system. The growth is a dark olive flake or film that seems to grow in the fuel line as well as the tank and boy does it like biodiesel. What biocides have other producers tried and with what level of success? Regards from Harry. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Rent DVDs Online-No late fees! Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/bbvVKB/oEZFAA/46VHAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: two-stage and glycerine acidification
I think it's valid, but I have found that addition of some methanol after washing and drying seems to reconvert' the FFA's. I tried to do a conventional Acid Step after washing but I found that addition of sulphuric made no difference that I could measure. The methanol cleared up the cloudiness, that I had attributed to the FFA's, all by itself. I'm advocating a prewash pH test with an appropriate indicator (~6.8--7.2?) so that the acid addition is not excessive. (Must try more indicators.) Works for me personally but other operators are still heavy handed. These guys are mature and relatively well educated, what may happen in a village in the Islands bothers me. P.S. If the methanol is left in the fuel does it create a fire hazard in rollovers? Bio and diesel have very high flash points, the addition of volatile components may compromise the safety aspect. Regards from Harry. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Biocides
A lot of our customers have had good success with a product called BIOBOR JF in their diesel fuel. It made by Hammond's Fuel Additives in Houston, TX. You can get technical assistance at 800 548 9166 or 281 820 5674. Cal Letchworth Byrd Oil Distributors, Inc. 110 Rand Yard Road Sanford, FL 32771 Ph407 322-6560 Fax 407 322-6727 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Hydrogen car no environmental panacea
Bring on the biodiesel: 2003/03/10: Eureka: MIT study: Hydrogen car no environmental panacea Even with aggressive research, the hydrogen fuel-cell vehicle will not be better than the diesel hybrid (a vehicle powered by a conventional engine supplemented by an electric motor) in terms of total energy use and greenhouse gas emissions by 2020, says a study recently released by MIT's Laboratory for Energy and the Environment (LFEE). And while hybrid vehicles are already appearing on the roads, adoption of the hydrogen-based vehicle will require major infrastructure changes to make compressed hydrogen available. If we need to curb greenhouse gases within the next 20 years, improving mainstream gasoline and diesel engines and transmissions and expanding the use of hybrids is the way to go. These results come from a systematic and comprehensive assessment of a variety of engine and fuel technologies as they are likely to be in 2020 with intense research but no real 'breakthroughs.' The assessment was led by Malcolm A. Weiss, LFEE senior research staff member, and John B. Heywood, the Sun Jae Professor of Mechanical Engineering and director of MIT's Laboratory for 21st-Century Energy. [...] http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2003-03/miot-msh031003.php Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] double cropping
In order to increase crop output, two crops can be grown in areas that have a long enough growing season. I recently read about Indiana lower two thirds being able to grow winter wheat and a crop of sunflowers. It would be a great way to use up nitrogen around CAFO's. I've heard of peas and rape, but have not heard about alot of double cropping. Do others know of more examples? Wouldn't hemp supply a use for fallow fields in the summer. Would they hold more water than what would evaporate? Seems like in a drought it would be the most able to produce usable mass. What is the growning seasons for hemp? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] troubleshooting biodiesel- long was reprocessing biodiesel
Hi Jack, I thought about all this while putting my biodiesel site back together tonight (the LandLord inspection went without incident- he walked in, played with the roommates' baby, saw no biodiesel equipment (because it was all moved offsite, and that's a major undertaking!)- then walked into the warehouse and made no mention of the enormous 6-room, out-of- plumb, strawbale-and-bamboo, mud-plastered hexagonal structure my roommates built illegally and against his 'orders'. This was on a week when we were in the middle of our massive plastering phase using earth plaster- ie there was a mess. Then he emailed us a thank you for letting him in. wow. I guess there's something to the jedi mind trick after all) anyway I was meditating on your problems while setting up my first fuelwash in two weeks and a couple of things came to mind. One, is that cloudy biodiesel before washing isn't necessarily an indication of much- so unless I misremember your original post and missed something I wouldn't worry about it till other quality control problems come up- which in your case is the washing/emulsification trouble. Fuel I had problems with this fall was really beautifully clear- until we tried washing it. Likewise cloudy fuel sometimes clears with time- and, by the way, waiting a few days before washing helps get an easier wash. two, is that in the reprocess tests you're varying two variables at once- the methanol and the catalyst. I do, however, know how that kind of backyard science 'happens' and I've personally done lots of those poorly-controlled experiments with multiple variables changing at once... but it seems like a good idea to know which variable is changing which effect... WHat I see a potential problem with is this: the reprocess test as I describe it (200 ml methanol, 3.5 g lye) involves a huge methanol excess over what it used up by the reaction between the methanol and any residual tri, di, or monoglycerides. It would actually be better if I recommended a smaller amount of methanol, but I havent' figured out how little you can use and still get obvious results. With this excess methanol, you end you with a 'glycerine' layer that can look substantial- but it is often made up of some glycerine diluted by a lot of the unused methanol. So the difference between your 50 ml and 100 ml of methanol used, as shown by the amount of glycerine dropped, doesn't necessarily mean much other than that the glycerine is diluted by the 50 ml extra methanol. To me it seems that the reprocess test, like many of the other backyard tests- is an 'on-off' kind of test- that is, it is not quantitative, it only tells you that you did or you did not have unconverted matter in there. You could make it more quantitative by boiling off the methanol from the glycerine layer and measuring the glycerine, but that's opening a whole different can of measuring worms (due to the water content of the glycerine layer boiling off at various rates). Like the rest of the backyard tests, it is also useful to have another kind of biodiesel as a comparison. I would recommend finding some other decent oil, making fuel with it, and doing a reprocess/wash tests just to see the difference. I at the moment do not believe that the results of changing variables on a reprocess test necessarily gives you enough data to translate into the amount of ingredients to use in your actual reaction. I think of it as just an on-off signal- yes, there was some poor conversion, or no, there was not poor conversion. When I was trying to figure out a similar problem as you are, I did the following: 1. did reprocess tests to see if there was or was not poor conversion 2.since the answer was yes I then did a series of test batches on the actual oil varying one variable at a time 3. I followed that up by testing the result of the test batches- I did the I of Idaho wash test on them, and I then did a further reprocess test on some (again looking for 'yes, this one got poor conversion or no, this one did not get poor conversion). For the most part I had terrible results on the wash tests,and that told me everything before the reprocess did. I would in your case also vary the temperature variable, and maybe the agitation variable (you already did, right?). And I wouldn't look at cloudy fuel before washing as necessarily a problem. However emulsification (ie your 'mayonnaise') is a problem. It can happen due to soaps formation and thats unlikely in your case unless there';s water content in the oil (not visible to the eye). emulsification is also caused by poor conversion. And emulsification is most definitely caused by accidentally getting glycerine into your wash vessel. I remember you're working with a flat bottom tank- are you washing in the same tank that is your processor? it is hard to drain all the glycerine out completely in a flat bottom tank. I use a separate wash tank.
[biofuel] Re: glycerol seperation and clouds
I just re-read your original post so, my comments in between yr points there: --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Jack Kenworthy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all - I am wondering if you all could help me clarify a few production questions. Let me describe a bit the conditions I am working with. First, my oil is very good quality wvo from a cruise ship. They use it 1-2 days and then give it to us. My titrations routinely give me a value of around .3 - .5 extra grams of lye/liter ( I use a biurette for titration, so small quantities to 1/10th ml are fairly easy to determine). My batch sizes are presently about 40-50 gallons and I am using 23% methanol to ensure that the reaction goes far enough. I am preheating my oil to 120 F and filtering, though only coursely (through 4-ply steel screen), before pumping into reaction tank. I pump the hot oil from about 6 off bottom of drum to avoid getting any residual water. Mark: I think 120 is not high enough to force dissolved (?) water to separate out. 140 is I believe (right? 60 C = 140F ??). Once in the reaction tank, I am no longer able to maintain heat, so the temp falls off from there during the reaction. Mark: I would suspect this to be a problem. try using lots of insulation (even cardboard to the thickness of a couple of inches will work unless it gets wet), and heating the oil hotter initially. If you have an enclosed processor, try heating to almost the boiling point of methanol - I use 140 when problems like this arise, methanol boiling point is 148. If you've got an open processor- well, it's unhealthy- get a lid. The methoxide I mix with both a high rpm mixer and a circulating pump for about 20-30 minutes. I mix the whole batch with the same mixer for 3-4 hours - it is quite vigorous. Mark: So agitation is probably not your problem. I let it sit after mixing for about 24 hours, but I do not stir the glycerol back in. The glycerol remix system seems to give people with soaps problems good results. It won't affect washing problems that are due to poor conversion. 2 - The biodiesel on top is also still cloudy. This is puzzling to me, but I am still not quite sure if it is normal. Mark: it is normal sometimes. I also believe it's a sign of soaps sometimes. have you tried any of the dewatering yet? I have other tanks that I let it settle in for about a week and some more fatty substances fall out (more glycerol? tallow esters?). Mark: or soaps maybe ? But it is still not totally clear. Mark: try putting a sample into a jar and forget about it for a few weeks. I'd be curious if time affects it (ie it's soaps). Of course you want to fix your wash problems before then. When I go to wash, it is usually a painful process - takes forever. First wash comes out white, second less so and third pretty darn clear Mark: I'm unclear if you're talkinga bout the wash water or about the actual biodiesel portion- ie, emulsification...which is it? but the biodiesel is still not totally clear (usual?). This is normal for the end of a wash but it seems to depend a lot on how well-washed your fuel is. What are you using as an indication that the fuel is 'done' washing? I've found that if you have poor conversion/wash problems,it takes a lot more than three washes to get it to be 'done'. some garbage we made is on it's 9th wash. The same fuel is taking that long to stop having cloudy wash water. ouch! there is some kind of interplay between soaps and mg/dg- emulsification isn't just an indication of one or the other. my theory is that with this bad fuel (poor conversion) the mg/dg emulsify enough soapy water into the biodiesel portion that it can take a lot of wash water changes for that soapy-water-logged biodiesel portion to release it's soaps. I;'mn not sure that makes sense at 1:30 am. Interested in comments from others about that one. I am adding 10 ml/L of white vinegar to the wash, but I am concerned to use more to avoid converting back to FFA's. If I heat to 90-100 degrees F, it seems to clear and sometimes remains clear, sometimes not. If it does, I filter and use it. If not I wait longer, and eventuallyit clears. I am wondering if this is all very usual, or if there is a quicker way to get the settle/wash done. Mark: I was experimenting with bubbledrying by bubbling air through the washed biodiesel- it does make it go clear- but I am NOT so convinced that the clarity is due to it drying. i have stopped doing this because I started using better oil and stopped having the conversion problem/wash problems. I found that the fuel just clears on it's own rapidly if I wash it enough. Usually this means three or max four washes. Then I find that the stuff clears in an afternoon... if it was good fuel to begin with. take care, mark I am trying right now to process all of the 100 gallons a week in a 50 gallon processor, so I am
[biofuel] Blue Sun Biodiesel was Re: double cropping
Blue Sun Biodiesel, who is a very ambitious biodiesel producer gearing up to build a huge plant in Colorado, is banking on local farmers' doublecropping as one of their strategies. I think the locals grow winter wheat. Growing an oilcrop for Blue Sun before the wheat season gives them the benefits you describe below. I think the crop is mustard- I could be wrong though, it was a casual conversation and I don't have the info in print anywhere. I also think they said it was a nitrogenfixer- I don't remember if mustard does that or not- but it sounded like a win-win situation for the local farmers on the Plains there- part of the idea is also that they'll be growing a crop with a guaranteed purchaser, not subject to market fluctuations in chicago or somehere. And they'll still be growing wheat. mark --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, k5farms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In order to increase crop output, two crops can be grown in areas that have a long enough growing season. I recently read about Indiana lower two thirds being able to grow winter wheat and a crop of sunflowers. It would be a great way to use up nitrogen around CAFO's. I've heard of peas and rape, but have not heard about alot of double cropping. Do others know of more examples? Wouldn't hemp supply a use for fallow fields in the summer. Would they hold more water than what would evaporate? Seems like in a drought it would be the most able to produce usable mass. What is the growning seasons for hemp? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] correction was Re: troubleshooting biodiesel- long
Having just reread jack's original posts I think I misunderstood what he was saying below- so if he's talking about washing of oil, not washing of biodiesel, ignore this: If you got bad emulsification it can most certainly take a long time for the emulsion to break- so what you're seeing isn't odd, although it's quite bad and you want to find out why it happened... wait, I just reread this one and misunderstand it: Keith, I am still waiting for the water to drop out of the oil that I washed - it is well mixed in there and drying only slowly, once it does I will test it. Is it normal for the water to get so hung ? up? are you saying you've got it in a state of emulsification, or are you saying you washed some, you're done washing it, and it's hazy and won't come clear/dry? if it's emulsion, you're obviously on your way to figuring out why. If it's post-wash haze, and you've got a batch that emulsified or otherwise was a hard wash, here's a suggestion: I've found that the better washed it Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Hemp
It's a shame we aren't allowed to play with it here in the states. I'm trying to set up a trip to Bolivia, maybe I can do something there. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Brian Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 6:24 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Hemp Hemp Continued Hemp is a great multi-use crop. It produces 4x the amount of paper fiber per acre compared to trees. It is great for protein and essential fatty acids, and thousands of industrial, sustainable uses. Kentucky used to have the most roductive hemp strain in the world. It also has a great application for crop rotation, since it does not drain the soil of nutrients and rarely requires fertilizer. Anyway, it in't great solely for biodiesel use, but is very good for biodiesel when used for multiple reasons. At my university, I actually put together a Powerpoint presentation arguing for the legalization of industrial hemp. It was fun to work on. Let me know if you want it forwarded. Brian --- murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 9 Mar 2003 10:29:55 -0500, you wrote: No. It's not. But it is perhaps the highest bio-mass producer that also yields edible oil, meal.and fiber. It stands the greatest chance of succeeding economically as a biomass crop due to its multiple co-products and overall yields, if only the United States government would get out of the way. Todd Swearingen Right on. I've never seen a prominent American government official have the decency to discuss the topic much less suggest they get the hell out of the way. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- New Yahoo! Mail Plus. More flexibility. More control. More power. Get POP access, more storage, more filters, and more. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hcb0iA/P.iFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] doggie plumbing was : sustainable plumbing
I have had cats trained to the toilet. There was a kit available to train your cat and I understand that it is back on the market, available at Petco in the US. I think it would be easy to train a dog to use the European 'squatter' style 'toilet'. Anyone from over there heard of such a thing? Bright Blessings, Kim murdoch wrote: So long as I'm on that topic, another toilet-related-one is that I've been hanging out with a friend who has a dog. Is there some reason that we can't seem to find a way to make it common to install a toilet in homes that dogs could use? We idolize them for being such intelligent friendly trainable-in-some-ways pets. I just wonder if they couldn't be trained in that way. It's amazing how folks are slaves to having to take their dogs out for walks x number of times per day. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: OT: sustainable plumbing
Actually, if you can show the local health inspector the records of the temperature of your compost, he has no problem with it. Bright Blessings, Kim girl_mark_fire wrote: Don't forget about methane digesters and human (or animal, vegetable, or anything in between) waste. Someone in my social circle apparently replaced their (urban) bathroom toilet with a marine macerator toilet which pumps the human waste into a methane digester- which produces gas (and decent compost apparently). Of course you use the methane as cooking fuel (and use the compost to help grow food)- which of course leads to more human waste to feed the digester with. A bit of a closed circle. And more low-tech is just building a composting toilet and using the compost for growing food (tho your local health inspector might not like the latter use of it). mark Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] double cropping
Growing season is less than 90 day for a seed crop of hemp. Whether any desired genetic attributes are altered or left behiind due to the shortened growth season and exceleration into maturation is doubtful. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: k5farms [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 3:51 AM Subject: [biofuel] double cropping In order to increase crop output, two crops can be grown in areas that have a long enough growing season. I recently read about Indiana lower two thirds being able to grow winter wheat and a crop of sunflowers. It would be a great way to use up nitrogen around CAFO's. I've heard of peas and rape, but have not heard about alot of double cropping. Do others know of more examples? Wouldn't hemp supply a use for fallow fields in the summer. Would they hold more water than what would evaporate? Seems like in a drought it would be the most able to produce usable mass. What is the growning seasons for hemp? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Re: Enigma diesel-electric hybrid prototype
I've missed some of this. Has there been new news about the SDSU L3 Enigma? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] more evenhandedness
Aloe,Keith: ( The aloe is because one of my consuming interests for the past five years has been to develop a method of growing aloe commercially using above ground troughs containing seaweed and sand.) Now, to stimulate your juices, the following quote from: Conrad Black, a British citizen and member of the House of Lords who is a proprietor of many newspapers, including the Telegraph of London and the Sun-Times of Chicago. +++ America has had the most successful foreign policy of any major country not just because of its strength but because it has never had any objective except not to be threatened and when threatened, to remove the threat. And it does not believe in durable coexistence with a mortal threat. The threat( the most recent one) being , in my opinion, the abortive oil embargo attempted by Saddam a couple of years ago. Regards, g-don [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Request for engine info
Howdy Gang, I have a little question with which I'll bet someone here has some experience. I'd like a small.1/4 to one hp engine ..which could run on a renewable fuel. I work with ethanol, so I'd really like to use something like 95 percent ethanol and 5 percent biodiesel. Nothing in stone here.with the percentages..could be all diesel or 80 ethanol 20 water..I'm open. On top of that .. I'd really like a nice slow speed or at least quiet.engine. I've seen some really neat RC engines but I think they are all very high RPMs.and I really need something very quiet. Ok .guys.any experience? ED Iowa Hi Ed I don't know if it's what you're looking for, but try an archive search for model airplane (include the quotes). Quite a lot of info on small engines, both diesel and other, including some links. http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel There's been discussion a few times on using ethanol with 2-stroke gasoline engines, for chainsaws and so on. The reports have been good. No need for absolute ethanol. Also discussion on using biodiesel instead of 2-stroke oil, also good results. It depends on the engine and how old it is, but I think you can use it 1-for-1. One member used a mix of 20 to 1 with gasoline in his chainsaw. It works fine, he said. After using the saw for 2.5 hours in one go on dead Australian hardwood with no hiccups I was very impressed to say the least. 5% biodiesel should dissolve in ethanol without any problems. I tried it the other way round, for different reasons - IIRC 22% biodiesel stayed dissolved in ethanol, both absolute and 190-proof. Please keep us advised how you get on. Best Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: Hemp
...or try Canada, Europe or many other more reasonable countries. I haven't heard anything indicating Bolivia would be open to cannabis, though I did just get from a friend whose brother lives in Cochabomba Bolivia that the country is now deciding to allow coca growers/producers to have legitimate ways to continue their traditional farming. The US has long been pressing them to crackdown on it...but then the US also had been (via Bechtel) pressing for privatization of their water also---which backfired BIG TIME over the past couple years as people took to the streets in violent protest. As I understand it, the privatization efforts are at least on hold if not entirely halted. It seems that the US is the lone pusher for privatized utilities these days. -mt -Original Message- From: Steve Spence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 4:24 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Hemp It's a shame we aren't allowed to play with it here in the states. I'm trying to set up a trip to Bolivia, maybe I can do something there. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Brian Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 6:24 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Hemp Hemp Continued Hemp is a great multi-use crop. It produces 4x the amount of paper fiber per acre compared to trees. It is great for protein and essential fatty acids, and thousands of industrial, sustainable uses. Kentucky used to have the most roductive hemp strain in the world. It also has a great application for crop rotation, since it does not drain the soil of nutrients and rarely requires fertilizer. Anyway, it in't great solely for biodiesel use, but is very good for biodiesel when used for multiple reasons. At my university, I actually put together a Powerpoint presentation arguing for the legalization of industrial hemp. It was fun to work on. Let me know if you want it forwarded. Brian --- murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 9 Mar 2003 10:29:55 -0500, you wrote: No. It's not. But it is perhaps the highest bio-mass producer that also yields edible oil, meal.and fiber. It stands the greatest chance of succeeding economically as a biomass crop due to its multiple co-products and overall yields, if only the United States government would get out of the way. Todd Swearingen Right on. I've never seen a prominent American government official have the decency to discuss the topic much less suggest they get the hell out of the way. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Re: Enigma diesel-electric hybrid prototype
Hi MM I've missed some of this. Has there been new news about the SDSU L3 Enigma? I don't think so, just interest rekindled - Mark posted a reference to it at the Biodiesel list in a thread on hybrids. Regards Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: more evenhandedness
Hello Donald Just to add a little to your description of C Black. He is an ex-Canadian who 'obtained' British citizenship and who was nominated for the House of Lords by an ex-leader of the opposition. The House of Lords will soon be the ex-House of Lords. As you are obviously not a British native I presume you will not be offended if I point out that 'ex' in English means old, finished or played-out. You described Conrad Black and the things and people associated with him beautifully. Thank you. Stuart Now, to stimulate your juices, the following quote from: Conrad Black, a British citizen and member of the House of Lords who is a proprietor of many newspapers, including the Telegraph of London and the Sun-Times of Chicago. +++ America has had the most successful foreign policy of any major country not just because of its strength but because it has never had any objective except not to be threatened and when threatened, to remove the threat. And it does not believe in durable coexistence with a mortal threat. The threat( the most recent one) being , in my opinion, the abortive oil embargo attempted by Saddam a couple of years ago. Regards, g-don [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Aloe
Keith: Why not use soil? Don: Rocky hillside. The troughs (L shaped recycled galvanised roofing - thus:I: provide instant terracing. g-don Parts of South Africa, where I hale from, seem to be a paradise for aloes. They really like growing on rocky hillsides. Anyway, making soil is no difficult trick, nor is stabilising it on a hillside. Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Hemp was Re: [biofuel] Re: VW Diesel Warranty exclusions!!
Hrmm, maybe not commercial, but could be . http://www.hempoilcan.com/ http://www.hempcar.org/ I think what Todd is saying that the oil is really just a co-product with the bast processing for fiber, which in itself is similar to what the soy industry is doing with soy oil. The real value of hemp is in textiles, paper replacement, etc. No reason that the oil couldn't be used for biodiesel, although it might have more vaule as a high end product. This is the same as rice oil, grapeseed oil, and various other high end oils that lend themselves to a high value product. James Slayden On Sun, 9 Mar 2003, Appal Energy wrote: No. It's not. But it is perhaps the highest bio-mass producer that also yields edible oil, meal.and fiber. It stands the greatest chance of succeeding economically as a biomass crop due to its multiple co-products and overall yields, if only the United States government would get out of the way. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 8:15 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: VW Diesel Warranty exclusions!! why hemp? no commercial biodiesel is made from hemp. It's not a very good oil producer. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Cole [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 12:00 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: VW Diesel Warranty exclusions!! I have talked to my local VW dealer a lot about my intentions of running biodiesel, and he has said nothing about the waranty being voided. Biofuel will EXTEND the life of the engine long after the waranty expires. I am going down tomorow morning to Santa Rosa CA VW dealer and get a 2002 Golf TDI, and I am going to run biodiesel at $2.65 a gallon for under 100 gallons. I may get a few 55 gal drums and get 100 gallons at $2.35/gal.. in the Golf, the 14.5 gallon tank will take the car about 650-690 miles, depending city or hwy driving. With that kind of mileage I can drive to the coast every weekend and not spend a fortune on GASoline... the lowest prices here right now are about $1.99, and soon to go over $2. I cant wait to stick stickers all over it about biodiesel and hemp. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, John Hayes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve Spence wrote: legally, the warranty can only be voided if the claim was due to a fuel related problem. e.g. if the fuel pump goes, you're screwed. But if the rear brake rotors fail, legally, they cannot refuse to service the car. But anyway, how are they gonna know you were running BD unless: a) you tell 'em or b) your car is covered with pro-biodiesel bumper stickers? Run BD for the 1st 4 years and only put BD bumper stickers on after the warranty expires. John Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Hemp was Re: [biofuel] Re: VW Diesel Warranty exclusions!!
We are preparing for a project in Haiti using avocados, the oil is a nice byproduct, not the main product. We are not allowed to experiment with hemp here in the USA. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: James Slayden [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 4:58 PM Subject: Re: Hemp was Re: [biofuel] Re: VW Diesel Warranty exclusions!! Hrmm, maybe not commercial, but could be . http://www.hempoilcan.com/ http://www.hempcar.org/ I think what Todd is saying that the oil is really just a co-product with the bast processing for fiber, which in itself is similar to what the soy industry is doing with soy oil. The real value of hemp is in textiles, paper replacement, etc. No reason that the oil couldn't be used for biodiesel, although it might have more vaule as a high end product. This is the same as rice oil, grapeseed oil, and various other high end oils that lend themselves to a high value product. James Slayden On Sun, 9 Mar 2003, Appal Energy wrote: No. It's not. But it is perhaps the highest bio-mass producer that also yields edible oil, meal.and fiber. It stands the greatest chance of succeeding economically as a biomass crop due to its multiple co-products and overall yields, if only the United States government would get out of the way. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 8:15 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: VW Diesel Warranty exclusions!! why hemp? no commercial biodiesel is made from hemp. It's not a very good oil producer. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Cole [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 12:00 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: VW Diesel Warranty exclusions!! I have talked to my local VW dealer a lot about my intentions of running biodiesel, and he has said nothing about the waranty being voided. Biofuel will EXTEND the life of the engine long after the waranty expires. I am going down tomorow morning to Santa Rosa CA VW dealer and get a 2002 Golf TDI, and I am going to run biodiesel at $2.65 a gallon for under 100 gallons. I may get a few 55 gal drums and get 100 gallons at $2.35/gal.. in the Golf, the 14.5 gallon tank will take the car about 650-690 miles, depending city or hwy driving. With that kind of mileage I can drive to the coast every weekend and not spend a fortune on GASoline... the lowest prices here right now are about $1.99, and soon to go over $2. I cant wait to stick stickers all over it about biodiesel and hemp. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, John Hayes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve Spence wrote: legally, the warranty can only be voided if the claim was due to a fuel related problem. e.g. if the fuel pump goes, you're screwed. But if the rear brake rotors fail, legally, they cannot refuse to service the car. But anyway, how are they gonna know you were running BD unless: a) you tell 'em or b) your car is covered with pro-biodiesel bumper stickers? Run BD for the 1st 4 years and only put BD bumper stickers on after the warranty expires. John Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
[biofuel] dual-fuel carbs, etc.
I've seen various carb modifications where gasoline is used to start an engine, and then the carb is switched over to an alternative fuel, the alternative fuel being difficult to start the engine with, etc. Has anyone tried modifying a carb so that the idle circuit is always regular gasoline, and only the non-idle parts are alternative? For example regular gasoline starts the car and then wood gas or some other alternative fuel provides the acceleration and normal cruising, or perhaps the alternative fuel supplies the carb's secondaries only, or some other variation. It would be good for alternative fuels that need to have their temperatures raised before they are useable, espescially in cold climates, since the car would start normally and then it's normal heat would be available. I came up with this while thinking about wood gas generators, and the idea of using crude oil(or vegetable oil) instead of wood in them. If a car could burn crude oil, it dispenses with all the energy and pollution needed to process the crude into gasoline. But you'd need heat to help vaporize it, and you could get that heat from an engine already started on gasoline. I'm also wondering about the economics of running a car on carbide; one guy did, but I found very little on the web. It's supposed to be murder on an engine, having zero octane, and essentially powering the car with a constant stream of knocks, but wouldn't that be ideal in a diesel engine where low octane is desired? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Hydrogen car no environmental panacea
Yes Steve, you are right, if hydrogen cannot gain on improved diesel, gasoline or hybrids, then biofuels are absolute winners. Improved vehicles with biofuels win hands down. Hybrid with biofuels will be the near zero alternative. Hakan At 06:18 PM 3/10/2003 -0500, you wrote: Bring on the biodiesel: 2003/03/10: Eureka: MIT study: Hydrogen car no environmental panacea Even with aggressive research, the hydrogen fuel-cell vehicle will not be better than the diesel hybrid (a vehicle powered by a conventional engine supplemented by an electric motor) in terms of total energy use and greenhouse gas emissions by 2020, says a study recently released by MIT's Laboratory for Energy and the Environment (LFEE). And while hybrid vehicles are already appearing on the roads, adoption of the hydrogen-based vehicle will require major infrastructure changes to make compressed hydrogen available. If we need to curb greenhouse gases within the next 20 years, improving mainstream gasoline and diesel engines and transmissions and expanding the use of hybrids is the way to go. These results come from a systematic and comprehensive assessment of a variety of engine and fuel technologies as they are likely to be in 2020 with intense research but no real 'breakthroughs.' The assessment was led by Malcolm A. Weiss, LFEE senior research staff member, and John B. Heywood, the Sun Jae Professor of Mechanical Engineering and director of MIT's Laboratory for 21st-Century Energy. [...] http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2003-03/miot-msh031003.php Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] protest
I agree it is silly. I was just saying that they werent arrested because they wore a shirt, but because they refused to leave. It was a protest to extent. How many people buy a shirt at a mall and then put it on right there? They could have just taken their shirts back off but did not. Thus begin their protest. If they came from home with the shirt on and only that shirt they would have had a reason to refuse. Like it or not, it was private property. Refuse to leave and you can be arrested. I think it was poorly handled, though. We don't really need the thought police running around. it was good to see all the other action happening with the fellow shoppers the next day. Message: 4 Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 15:32:45 -0500 From: Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: protest Being asked to leave because the owner doesn't like what their shirts wear is ridiculous. They weren't starting a protest. 2 people is not a protest. They were walking, they bought the shirts in the mall. --- Martin Klingensmith nnytech.net infoarchive.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Hemp was Re: [biofuel] Re: VW Diesel Warranty exclusions!!
Hrmm, maybe not commercial, but could be . http://www.hempoilcan.com/ http://www.hempcar.org/ I think what Todd is saying that the oil is really just a co-product with the bast processing for fiber, which in itself is similar to what the soy industry is doing with soy oil. The real value of hemp is in textiles, paper replacement, etc. No reason that the oil couldn't be used for biodiesel, although it might have more vaule as a high end product. This is the same as rice oil, grapeseed oil, and various other high end oils that lend themselves to a high value product. Most rice oil is wasted. Best Keith James Slayden On Sun, 9 Mar 2003, Appal Energy wrote: No. It's not. But it is perhaps the highest bio-mass producer that also yields edible oil, meal.and fiber. It stands the greatest chance of succeeding economically as a biomass crop due to its multiple co-products and overall yields, if only the United States government would get out of the way. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 8:15 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: VW Diesel Warranty exclusions!! why hemp? no commercial biodiesel is made from hemp. It's not a very good oil producer. Steve Spence Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] protest
Hello David, Martin and all On the other hand, there's this (forwarded from another list) - I wonder how widespread this is? This weekend I met a young man, Jeff Chandler, at a workshop on counseling conscientious objecters. He received detention for hanging posters in his high school, Olean High School. The posters, copied on regular copy paper, had a peace sign in the middle with messages surrounding it: pro-peace, anti-war, give peace a chance, etc. Jeff had asked teachers if they objected to him hanging posters near their rooms first. The administration of the school has given Jeff detention for hanging the posters. You can call or write the school at the following addresses/numbers: Olean High School 410 West Sullivan Street Olean NY 14760 Principal: Barbara Lias 716-375-8012 Vice Principal: Jeffrey Andreano (I believe this is the guy who punished Jeff with detention) 716-375-8028 Jeff is asking that people complain that his rights have been infringed, not that they demand that he be released from detention. He is looking forward to sitting in the detention hall making more posters. At the same meeting, I met a teen from Newfield High School who will be serving detention for his participation in the walk-out last week. Newfield has assigned detention to all students who were involved. Pass this on, please. Students have virtually no rights in public schools. Time to change that. And also this: http://www.motherjones.com/news/warwatch/ MotherJones.com | News The Kids Are Alright If war does start next week, don't blame the tens of thousands of high school and college students who walked out of classes and into the streets to protest this week. In the US alone, students from more than 300 schools participated in the protest, while thousands more in Great Britain, Sweden, Spain, and Australia joined in. In California, activists said they hoped the student protests were a sign of an emerging antiwar movement for a new generation, the Los Angeles Times reports. In fact, at least one expert on student activism, UCLA education professor Robert A. Rhoads, told the Times that the protests were unprecedenting, coming as they did as the war is still being organized, not after the fact. In London, protesting staged a sit-in outside Prime Minister Tony Blair's official residentce, and prevented Blair from leaving the House of Commons. And in Australia, thousands of students marched through the streets of Sydney. So how did the country's hawkish leaders respond? Well, Australian Prime Minister John Howard declared that the students should have stayed in school, and the deputy director-general of education in the Australian state of New South Wales worried that the protesting students would be open to manipulation by extremist groups, the Sydney Morning Herald reports. The claim was rejected by protest organiser Simon Butler, from the Books not Bombs coalition of students. 'Students are certainly old enough to make their own decisions and know enough about the war and the issues behind it,' he said. http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/california/la-me-peace6mar06, 1,6647045.story?coll=la%2Dheadlines%2Dpe%2Dcalifornia March 6, 2003 THE REGION Thousands of Students Join Antiwar Rallies Coordinated peace protests ripple across the country. Police arrest 19 people at a demonstration in downtown L.A. By Erika Hayasaki, Steve Hymon and Rebecca Trounson, Times Staff Writers Thousands of high school and college students across California and the nation walked out of classes Wednesday to protest a possible war with Iraq, joining religious figures and others in coordinated peace rallies, teach-ins and strikes. The demonstrations, which drew as many as 800 students to a central plaza at UCLA and about 250 people to the steps of the federal courthouse in downtown Los Angeles, were mostly peaceful, police said. But 19 people, including five members of the clergy, were arrested for failure to disperse after they blocked a busy downtown intersection during rush hour, police said. Five students from Canoga Park High School also were arrested on suspicion of looting a mini-mart after they broke off from an antiwar march near the school, authorities said. Elsewhere, students protested in a variety of ways, dancing to hip-hop music, engaging in poetry slams, listening to speakers and holding marches on campuses stretching from Beverly Hills High School to UC Berkeley and beyond. At Stanford University, dozens of professors implicitly endorsed the rallies, canceling classes or telling students there would be no penalties for absences. We're trying to save our country and planet from being ruined by the short-sighted policies of the Bush administration, said Amanda Crater, a UC Berkeley junior who walked out of a dance class to join the campus protest, which drew several hundred to Sather Gate. We're really trying to slow down and, with luck, stop
RE: [biofuel] Gifts to North Korea
Message: 12 Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 14:31:46 -0600 From: harley3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Gifts to North Korea -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 1:00 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Gifts to North Korea Kieth: I read the news story by Ms. Tomchick. What about this paragraph? By that time the Clinton administration was on its way out, unable to make any firm promises. Clinton managed to extract a promise from North Korea, however, to halt testing of long-range missiles, although no one really believed that North Korea has completely stopped work on its long-range missile program. After all, missiles are one of North Korea's main exports. (Remember the ship bearing North Korean missiles to Yemen that was stopped in the Persian Gulf a few weeks ago?) no one really believed that North Korea has completely stopped work on its long-range missile program. ... after six years of waiting in vain for the US to keep its promises? I think your reading of the story is very weird. Before your quote it says: [harley3] Keith how did North Korea wait in vain as they continued building long range missiles and Nukes? If they never stopped making WMD, why should US live up to it's part of a already broken agreement?Ps...Just because I don't interpret the news the same as yourself, that is considered weird? --- I would also imagine that if the N.Koreans went along building plants made to produce power rather than fuel for weapons + a smigen of power, then it would be a good argument. Athough I think his point that why should other trust the US is not uncommon out there. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] protest
I'm breaking my self imposed rule of not commenting on non biofuel posts, but here goes: Students Unite Behind a New Banner These days, university students across the nation are turning their peace banners into American flags. At Amherst College in Massachusetts, for example, junior Ben Baum and his roommate Mike Flood have created the Amherst Assembly for Patriotism, a group they describe as being dedicated to something he thought everyone would be able to relate to: why America is great. We wanted a unifying group on campus, because most Americans are patriotic and love this country, Baum said. It's designed to include everyone on this campus who loves this country. We want to call attention to patriotic issues, about why we love the United States. Even the University of California at Berkeley, the famously peacenik campus, has spawned a vocal pro-war group called United Students for America, some 75 members strong. We support the country. We support the military effort because we have to show national unity to get through the conflict as quickly as possible, group founder Bret Manley, a freshman, said. We're sick of the rap that Berkeley gets for being un-American. Manley and his friends formed the group three weeks ago, in the wake of a large anti-war protest. They were saying America is the world's greatest terrorist. They were burning the flag, he said. We were disgusted by that. So Manley's group will hold fundraisers for the Sept. 11 Fund and coordinate functions that emphasize patriotism. On Wednesday, they expect to draw 1,500 people to a rally that will include speakers, the singing of the national anthem and God Bless America and flag waving. To let the world know Berkeley is behind America, Manley said. Baum's group has already held a similar rally, which was crashed by off-campus anti-war protesters who broke away from the crowd and burned the Stars and Stripes at the climax of the event. The act was ironic considering that Baum's AAP holds no position on the war and welcomes both pro-war and anti-war groups, liberals and conservatives and all shades in between. We even had a speaker at our assembly who talked about how flag burning could be a form of patriotism itself, and how he was proud to be an American citizen because he had the right to either wave or burn the flag, meaning that while he loved the principles of our government, he disagreed with its actions, Baum said. These people were protesting something they could have been included in. Patriotism is something that transcends politics. Post-Sept. 11 flag-waving groups haven't sprouted up at Columbia University, another school famous for its anti-war protests during the 1960s and 1970s. But that doesn't mean New York City's premier center of learning lacks pro-American feelings, university spokesman Virgil Renzulli said. The medical school's students volunteered near Ground Zero, the maintenance workers handed over their crowbars, flashlights and shovels, and the entire school raised some $30,000 for the relief effort - including $6,000 in a joint effort from the Young Republicans and Democrats. I don't think they've ever worked together before, Renzulli said. And as for the anti-war protests that rocked the Manhattan campus during the Vietnam War and are being echoed today, if more softly, in campuses across America, Renzulli said they're pro-American too. The nation has changed dramatically, he said, but it's still a country where people speak out when they love the United States. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,37143,00.html Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 8:48 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] protest Hello David, Martin and all On the other hand, there's this (forwarded from another list) - I wonder how widespread this is? This weekend I met a young man, Jeff Chandler, at a workshop on counseling conscientious objecters. He received detention for hanging posters in his high school, Olean High School. The posters, copied on regular copy paper, had a peace sign in the middle with messages surrounding it: pro-peace, anti-war, give peace a chance, etc. Jeff had asked teachers if they objected to him hanging posters near their rooms first. The administration of the school has given Jeff detention for hanging the posters. You can call or write the school at the following addresses/numbers: Olean High School 410 West Sullivan Street Olean NY 14760 Principal: Barbara Lias 716-375-8012 Vice Principal: Jeffrey Andreano (I believe this is the guy who punished Jeff with detention) 716-375-8028 Jeff is asking that people complain that his rights have been infringed, not that they demand that he be released from detention. He is
RE: [biofuel] protest
Has anyone actually heard the security guards side of the story? Right now we only hear one side. We all know what we get when that happens. Message: 6 Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 02:10:44 -0500 From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: protest Which makes the matter even more horrifying. Previously and supposedly once competently trained personel in public places who make these types of spurious decisions? It's one thing to try and make ends meet. It's all together another to try and make everyone else meet one's own ends. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 12:23 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] protest I guess people don't understand, that many rent-a-cops, are military and police, on off duty hours or retired, trying to make ends meet. Greg H. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: protest
I think the real hypocrisy, and lesson in all this, lies in the fact that the mall owners were willing to profit in selling a message but not willing to allow that message to be broadcast. This is one of those lovely instances where greed, stupidity, and bad luck (in their choice of victim) all converge in equal measure. sometimes the gods do smile. thor -- Message: 21 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 18:52:30 -0500 From: Crabb, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: protest I agree it is silly. I was just saying that they werent arrested because they wore a shirt, but because they refused to leave. It was a protest to extent. How many people buy a shirt at a mall and then put it on right there? They could have just taken their shirts back off but did not. Thus begin their protest. If they came from home with the shirt on and only that shirt they would have had a reason to refuse. Like it or not, it was private property. Refuse to leave and you can be arrested. I think it was poorly handled, though. We don't really need the thought police running around. it was good to see all the other action happening with the fellow shoppers the next day. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] High and Mighty - Correction
Sorry, SUBs should have been SUVs in the subtitle. Darryl Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] High and Mighty
Hi Darryl Thanks very much! I seem to have a habit of coming across answers just after they are needed. I have just finished reading High and Mighty by Keith Bradsher. Subtitle - SUBs: The World's Most Dangerous Vehicles and How They Got That Way. (I know most of you had hoped the SUV thread had died. Sorry). It doesn't die - it fades away, then springs up again when the moon is full. g Keith, you were looking for the origin of the term SUV and a definition. Well, this guy has done a lot of research, and cannot find a reliable origin. Mr. Bradsher writes: What is an SUV? There is no official definition - most government regulations simply have categories for off-highway vehicles, which in turn are lumped in with pickup trucks and minivans as light trucks. The auto industry has not settled on a definition either. My definition has five parts. An SUV is a vehicle that (1) has four-wheel drive available as either standard or optional equipment; (2) has an enclosed rear cargo area like a minivan; (3) has high ground clearance for off-road travel; (4) uses a pickup-truck underbody; (5) is designed primarily for urban consumers and marketed primarily to them, with a cushy suspension and other features that may even compromise some of its appeal to serious off-road drivers. In the last few years, automakers have beun taking car designs and making them considerably taller and adding four-wheel drive, so as to market the result as an SUV. These vehicles, like the Toyota Highlander, which is derived from the Camry sedan, are often described within the auto industry as crossover utility vehicles, not SUVs, because they are not based on truck underbodies. Good, we'll take that as definitive then. Especially as it seems to exclude serious 4x4 utility vehicles, like Land Rovers and so on. I'd put the origin in somebody's marketing department, maybe late 80s at the earliest. I hope that settles more dust than it stirs up. I hope so too! (Get out the vacuum cleaner...) Some other selected passages, which I think reflect on recent conversations here on the general topic. Brake engineers say that when the wheels start slipping, the antilock systems on SUVs are programmed to back off even farther than car brakes. When and SUV starts sliding, it is more likely to roll over, so the brake engineers take extra pains to prevent this from happening by having the antilock brakes let off the pressure a little more. But less vigorous application of the antilock brakes means slightly longre stopping distances, especially on slippery surfaces like icy roads or gravel roads. What is needed is more restraint in advertising, plus better training for SUV drivers. Several insurance industry officials even described SUVs as the neutron bombs of the American road - the people inside might be killed or seriously injured in a crash, but the vehicle itself survived, so the collision insurance costs were low. Anyway, I recommend the book. An eye opener for me in some areas, and I already had a pretty low opinion of the North American auto industry. ISBN 1-58648-123-1, copyright date 2002 Darryl McMahon Thanks again Darryl, something to refer back to next time the argument starts. Best wishes Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] protest
Hello David Has anyone actually heard the security guards side of the story? There has been a little in some of the news stories. Right now we only hear one side. We all know what we get when that happens. Quite a lot of people like it that way, they don't want to know the other side. Anyway, there's this (includes guards' statements): Below you'll find the criminal complaint filed against Downs, followed by reports from the Guilderland police. (4 pages) http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/crossgates1.html The Smoking Gun: Archive Best Keith Message: 6 Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 02:10:44 -0500 From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: protest Which makes the matter even more horrifying. Previously and supposedly once competently trained personel in public places who make these types of spurious decisions? It's one thing to try and make ends meet. It's all together another to try and make everyone else meet one's own ends. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 12:23 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] protest I guess people don't understand, that many rent-a-cops, are military and police, on off duty hours or retired, trying to make ends meet. Greg H. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Gifts to North Korea
David Crabb writes: Message: 12 Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 14:31:46 -0600 From: harley3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Gifts to North Korea -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 1:00 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Gifts to North Korea Kieth: I read the news story by Ms. Tomchick. What about this paragraph? By that time the Clinton administration was on its way out, unable to make any firm promises. Clinton managed to extract a promise from North Korea, however, to halt testing of long-range missiles, although no one really believed that North Korea has completely stopped work on its long-range missile program. After all, missiles are one of North Korea's main exports. (Remember the ship bearing North Korean missiles to Yemen that was stopped in the Persian Gulf a few weeks ago?) no one really believed that North Korea has completely stopped work on its long-range missile program. ... after six years of waiting in vain for the US to keep its promises? I think your reading of the story is very weird. Before your quote it says: [harley3] Keith how did North Korea wait in vain as they continued building long range missiles and Nukes? If they never stopped making WMD, why should US live up to it's part of a already broken agreement?Ps...Just because I don't interpret the news the same as yourself, that is considered weird? --- I would also imagine that if the N.Koreans went along building plants made to produce power rather than fuel for weapons + a smigen of power, then it would be a good argument. Athough I think his point that why should other trust the US is not uncommon out there. David, please see the next message in the thread: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=22119list=BIOFUEL There's a link to this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/2754077.stm Fear and loathing in North Korea Best Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] protest
A bit like which came first, the chicken or the egg. Only in this case everyone knows what came first. Or perhaps even more on target would be comparing the t-shirt wearer to a woman wearing a low cut dress - of course everyone knows that she's just asking for it. Hearing such distorted logic should make everyone feel like throwing up where they stand or sit, whether applied to peace signs on t-shirts or plunging neck lines. Arrested for DWB..? (Driving While Black) The core reason why the two gentlemen were addressed in the first place was because of the text on their shirts. The confrontation initiated due to the lack of sensibility, decency, discernment and tolerance on the part of the rent-a-cop. To try and pawn the fault of arrest on the wearers of the garments because one refused to both remove the shirt or remove himself from the premises is fractured logic. Had there been no attitude, there would have been no confrontation, ergo no arrest and no problem. The issue at stake is what right does a private security guard have to demand the removal of a garment that expresses sentiment adhered to almost universally - that of peace? The shirts were not directed towards anyone's mother, they weren't pornographic or in poor taste. They only offended one mental midget. Does the same security guard have the right to demand that persons remove shirts that say Praise Allah, or Black is Beautiful or Rush is Reich or Bad Cop. No Donut or any of a million other thought processes represented in print? What if two people walked in wearing identical shirts that said Butcher of Baghdad, only one had a picture of Hussein and the other of George Bush? Or Pro-Choice or Pro-Life shirts? Again I'll ask, since when is the open request for peace and peaceful resolves considered provocative enough as to give cause for one to be asked to leave an establishment in America? Since when is peace not patriotic? Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Crabb, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 6:52 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] protest I agree it is silly. I was just saying that they werent arrested because they wore a shirt, but because they refused to leave. It was a protest to extent. How many people buy a shirt at a mall and then put it on right there? They could have just taken their shirts back off but did not. Thus begin their protest. If they came from home with the shirt on and only that shirt they would have had a reason to refuse. Like it or not, it was private property. Refuse to leave and you can be arrested. I think it was poorly handled, though. We don't really need the thought police running around. it was good to see all the other action happening with the fellow shoppers the next day. Message: 4 Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 15:32:45 -0500 From: Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: protest Being asked to leave because the owner doesn't like what their shirts wear is ridiculous. They weren't starting a protest. 2 people is not a protest. They were walking, they bought the shirts in the mall. --- Martin Klingensmith nnytech.net infoarchive.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] protest
It's been printed a thousand times. He confronted the two men while they were dining at a food court, expressed that the message on the shirt was offensive, asked them to remove them and then called the local PD when the elder refused to not only remove the garment but leave the premises. But you're right. We all should hear the security guard's rationale as to why professions of and requests for peace are offensive. And all the while every psyche student and department member across the planet should be listening keenly so as to discern just what it is that makes people think in such an irrational manner. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Crabb, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 9:26 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] protest Has anyone actually heard the security guards side of the story? Right now we only hear one side. We all know what we get when that happens. Message: 6 Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 02:10:44 -0500 From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: protest Which makes the matter even more horrifying. Previously and supposedly once competently trained personel in public places who make these types of spurious decisions? It's one thing to try and make ends meet. It's all together another to try and make everyone else meet one's own ends. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 12:23 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] protest I guess people don't understand, that many rent-a-cops, are military and police, on off duty hours or retired, trying to make ends meet. Greg H. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] protest
Since when is Berkely un-American, or Goddard? Really makes one wonder what chapters these college students skipped during high school civics Maybe they were omitted on those days they were out supporting pro-war rallies. Funny though. Nobody every heard about those. Must have been because of the liberal media. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 9:09 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] protest I'm breaking my self imposed rule of not commenting on non biofuel posts, but here goes: Students Unite Behind a New Banner These days, university students across the nation are turning their peace banners into American flags. At Amherst College in Massachusetts, for example, junior Ben Baum and his roommate Mike Flood have created the Amherst Assembly for Patriotism, a group they describe as being dedicated to something he thought everyone would be able to relate to: why America is great. We wanted a unifying group on campus, because most Americans are patriotic and love this country, Baum said. It's designed to include everyone on this campus who loves this country. We want to call attention to patriotic issues, about why we love the United States. Even the University of California at Berkeley, the famously peacenik campus, has spawned a vocal pro-war group called United Students for America, some 75 members strong. We support the country. We support the military effort because we have to show national unity to get through the conflict as quickly as possible, group founder Bret Manley, a freshman, said. We're sick of the rap that Berkeley gets for being un-American. Manley and his friends formed the group three weeks ago, in the wake of a large anti-war protest. They were saying America is the world's greatest terrorist. They were burning the flag, he said. We were disgusted by that. So Manley's group will hold fundraisers for the Sept. 11 Fund and coordinate functions that emphasize patriotism. On Wednesday, they expect to draw 1,500 people to a rally that will include speakers, the singing of the national anthem and God Bless America and flag waving. To let the world know Berkeley is behind America, Manley said. Baum's group has already held a similar rally, which was crashed by off-campus anti-war protesters who broke away from the crowd and burned the Stars and Stripes at the climax of the event. The act was ironic considering that Baum's AAP holds no position on the war and welcomes both pro-war and anti-war groups, liberals and conservatives and all shades in between. We even had a speaker at our assembly who talked about how flag burning could be a form of patriotism itself, and how he was proud to be an American citizen because he had the right to either wave or burn the flag, meaning that while he loved the principles of our government, he disagreed with its actions, Baum said. These people were protesting something they could have been included in. Patriotism is something that transcends politics. Post-Sept. 11 flag-waving groups haven't sprouted up at Columbia University, another school famous for its anti-war protests during the 1960s and 1970s. But that doesn't mean New York City's premier center of learning lacks pro-American feelings, university spokesman Virgil Renzulli said. The medical school's students volunteered near Ground Zero, the maintenance workers handed over their crowbars, flashlights and shovels, and the entire school raised some $30,000 for the relief effort - including $6,000 in a joint effort from the Young Republicans and Democrats. I don't think they've ever worked together before, Renzulli said. And as for the anti-war protests that rocked the Manhattan campus during the Vietnam War and are being echoed today, if more softly, in campuses across America, Renzulli said they're pro-American too. The nation has changed dramatically, he said, but it's still a country where people speak out when they love the United States. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,37143,00.html Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 8:48 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] protest Hello David, Martin and all On the other hand, there's this (forwarded from another list) - I wonder how widespread this is? This weekend I met a young man, Jeff Chandler, at a workshop on counseling conscientious objecters. He received detention for hanging posters in his high school, Olean High School. The posters, copied on regular copy paper, had a peace sign in the middle with messages surrounding it: pro-peace, anti-war, give peace a chance, etc. Jeff had asked teachers if
Re: [biofuel] double cropping
It is occasionally possible to plant winter wheat after corn where I live [NY USA], but farmers are so busy during corn they normally don't get to it before the snow. k5farms wrote: In order to increase crop output, two crops can be grown in areas that have a long enough growing season. I recently read about Indiana lower two thirds being able to grow winter wheat and a crop of sunflowers. It would be a great way to use up nitrogen around CAFO's. I've heard of peas and rape, but have not heard about alot of double cropping. Do others know of more examples? Wouldn't hemp supply a use for fallow fields in the summer. Would they hold more water than what would evaporate? Seems like in a drought it would be the most able to produce usable mass. What is the growning seasons for hemp? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- --- Martin Klingensmith http://nnytech.net/ http://infoarchive.net/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Request for engine info
Model engines, or engines that small by nature run very high RPMs - model planes up to 15,000 RPM or more. I don't know if you could attach a 'large' flywheel [a few hundred g] and slow it down without ruining it? They require air cooling though. Not many small engines are quiet or slow speed. They make normal one cylinder 4-cycle engines down to about 2.5HP I think, you could attach a large muffler probably, but they are still meant to run at 3600 RPM nominal. Keith Addison wrote: Howdy Gang, I have a little question with which I'll bet someone here has some experience. I'd like a small.1/4 to one hp engine ..which could run on a renewable fuel. I work with ethanol, so I'd really like to use something like 95 percent ethanol and 5 percent biodiesel. Nothing in stone here.with the percentages..could be all diesel or 80 ethanol 20 water..I'm open. On top of that .. I'd really like a nice slow speed or at least quiet.engine. I've seen some really neat RC engines but I think they are all very high RPMs.and I really need something very quiet. Ok .guys.any experience? ED Iowa Hi Ed I don't know if it's what you're looking for, but try an archive search for model airplane (include the quotes). Quite a lot of info on small engines, both diesel and other, including some links. http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel There's been discussion a few times on using ethanol with 2-stroke gasoline engines, for chainsaws and so on. The reports have been good. No need for absolute ethanol. Also discussion on using biodiesel instead of 2-stroke oil, also good results. It depends on the engine and how old it is, but I think you can use it 1-for-1. One member used a mix of 20 to 1 with gasoline in his chainsaw. It works fine, he said. After using the saw for 2.5 hours in one go on dead Australian hardwood with no hiccups I was very impressed to say the least. 5% biodiesel should dissolve in ethanol without any problems. I tried it the other way round, for different reasons - IIRC 22% biodiesel stayed dissolved in ethanol, both absolute and 190-proof. Please keep us advised how you get on. Best Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- --- Martin Klingensmith http://nnytech.net/ http://infoarchive.net/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] protest
Interesting indeed Olean is near where I am at school right now, probably 25 miles away. This area has the highest welfare rate of the entire state, mostly republican, and hold pro-war rallies. Just where I like to be [ahem..] Keith Addison wrote: Hello David, Martin and all On the other hand, there's this (forwarded from another list) - I wonder how widespread this is? This weekend I met a young man, Jeff Chandler, at a workshop on counseling conscientious objecters. He received detention for hanging posters in his high school, Olean High School. The posters, copied on regular copy paper, had a peace sign in the middle with messages surrounding it: pro-peace, anti-war, give peace a chance, etc. Jeff had asked teachers if they objected to him hanging posters near their rooms first. The administration of the school has given Jeff detention for hanging the posters. You can call or write the school at the following addresses/numbers: Olean High School 410 West Sullivan Street Olean NY 14760 Principal: Barbara Lias 716-375-8012 Vice Principal: Jeffrey Andreano (I believe this is the guy who punished Jeff with detention) 716-375-8028 Jeff is asking that people complain that his rights have been infringed, not that they demand that he be released from detention. He is looking forward to sitting in the detention hall making more posters. At the same meeting, I met a teen from Newfield High School who will be serving detention for his participation in the walk-out last week. Newfield has assigned detention to all students who were involved. Pass this on, please. Students have virtually no rights in public schools. Time to change that. -- --- Martin Klingensmith http://nnytech.net/ http://infoarchive.net/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] protest
While they may have had something that offended other shoppers on their shirts, it seem that security also recieved reports of them stoping other shoppers, which is a valid reasion to ask them to leave. Greg H. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
